From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:11:24 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#3756: eval-after-load 'ffap vs provide at start of file Reply-To: Kevin Ryde , 3756@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Kevin Ryde Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 00:55:06 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 3756 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.124675497617661 (code B ref -1); Sun, 05 Jul 2009 00:55:06 +0000 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 5 Jul 2009 00:49:36 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n650nVf9017656 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 2009 17:49:33 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MNFv4-00007M-BM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:49:26 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MNFuz-0008TC-SP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:49:25 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51073 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MNFuz-0008T3-Oq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:49:21 -0400 Received: from mailout2-1.pacific.net.au ([61.8.2.224]:33693 helo=mailout2.pacific.net.au) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MNFuz-0008Nb-5l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:49:21 -0400 Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (mailproxy2.pacific.net.au [61.8.2.163]) by mailout2.pacific.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id B35CE16B032 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 2009 10:49:15 +1000 (EST) Received: from blah.blah (ppp2165.dyn.pacific.net.au [61.8.33.101]) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D9527415 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 2009 10:49:09 +1000 (EST) Received: from gg by blah.blah with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MNFu4-00049t-P2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:48:24 +1000 From: Kevin Ryde To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:48:24 +1000 Message-ID: <87ljn4x8dj.fsf@blah.blah> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/22.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) Starting from emacs -Q, evaluating (progn (eval-after-load 'ffap '(setq ffap-newsgroup-heads (remove "misc" ffap-newsgroup-heads))) (require 'ffap)) gets an error void-variable ffap-newsgroup-heads where I hoped the eval-after-load meant after ffap is available and therefore its various variables exist. It looks like ffap.el has (provide 'ffap) near the start of the file, instead of at the end. The end is usual so that eval-after-load can be used on a feature symbol as above, is it? In GNU Emacs 22.3.1 (i486-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.14.7) of 2009-03-31 on raven, modified by Debian configured using `configure '--build=i486-linux-gnu' '--host=i486-linux-gnu' '--prefix=/usr' '--sharedstatedir=/var/lib' '--libexecdir=/usr/lib' '--localstatedir=/var/lib' '--infodir=/usr/share/info' '--mandir=/usr/share/man' '--with-pop=yes' '--enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs22:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/22.3/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/22.3/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/22.3/leim' '--with-x=yes' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk' '--with-toolkit-scroll-bars' 'build_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'host_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'CFLAGS=-DDEBIAN -g -O2' 'LDFLAGS=-g' 'CPPFLAGS='' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: en_AU locale-coding-system: iso-8859-1 default-enable-multibyte-characters: t From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:11:24 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#3756: eval-after-load 'ffap vs provide at start of file Reply-To: Glenn Morris , 3756@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Glenn Morris Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 02:25:06 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 3756 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 3756-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B3756.12467603081093 (code B ref 3756); Sun, 05 Jul 2009 02:25:06 +0000 Received: (at 3756) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 5 Jul 2009 02:18:28 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, X_DEBBUGS_NO_ACK autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n652ILYV001087 for <3756@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 4 Jul 2009 19:18:22 -0700 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MNHJ4-0000XV-G3; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:18:18 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Kevin Ryde Cc: 3756@debbugs.gnu.org References: <87ljn4x8dj.fsf@blah.blah> X-Spook: Ortega PGP Telex Area 51 Taiwan sniper Lon Horiuchi X-Ran: LE-)v(79$J"ngbgC&M[EUF~uc'+%Ea'Ak>Ez1g"2~K.{7`aIovJ05iU{5_vv:KYK[^5_e_ X-Hue: magenta X-Attribution: GM Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:18:18 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87ljn4x8dj.fsf@blah.blah> (Kevin Ryde's message of "Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:48:24 +1000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Kevin Ryde wrote: > It looks like ffap.el has (provide 'ffap) near the start of the file, > instead of at the end. The end is usual so that eval-after-load can be > used on a feature symbol as above, is it? I don't see why the ffap one shouldn't be at the end, but as discussed in the context of this very example last month, you cannot rely on provide always being at the end of a file: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-06/msg00202.html I'll mention something about this in the doc of eval-after-load. From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:11:24 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.427 (Entity 5.427) X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (Emacs bug Tracking System) To: Kevin Ryde Subject: bug#3756 closed by Glenn Morris (Re: bug#3756: eval-after-load 'ffap vs provide at start of file) Message-ID: References: <81iqi663b5.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87ljn4x8dj.fsf@blah.blah> X-Emacs-PR-Message: they-closed 3756 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 3756@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:00:06 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1246842006-23557-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1246842006-23557-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" This is an automatic notification regarding your bug report which was filed against the emacs package: #3756: eval-after-load 'ffap vs provide at start of file It has been closed by Glenn Morris . Their explanation is attached below along with your original report. If this explanation is unsatisfactory and you have not received a better one in a separate message then please contact Glenn Morris by replying to this email. --=20 3756: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D3756 Emacs Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1246842006-23557-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 3756-done) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 6 Jul 2009 00:52:21 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, X_DEBBUGS_NO_ACK autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n660qGnv022606 for <3756-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:52:17 -0700 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MNcRK-00050q-AI; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:52:14 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: 3756-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#3756: eval-after-load 'ffap vs provide at start of file References: <87ljn4x8dj.fsf@blah.blah> X-Spook: bomb Armani Compsec 22nd SAS quiche EuroFed Lexis-Nexis X-Ran: kEX5~dul>QDnbVBpPiKV:h(C{*Ijd;N6D(}:yJXH`tJ6#7^PLq7c/3y<-eoeMDI/LA-s3# X-Hue: blue X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:52:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:18:18 -0400") Message-ID: <81iqi663b5.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Doc fix for eval-after-load; ffap provide moved to end for 23.2. ------------=_1246842006-23557-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 5 Jul 2009 00:49:36 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n650nVf9017656 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 2009 17:49:33 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MNFv4-00007M-BM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:49:26 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MNFuz-0008TC-SP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:49:25 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51073 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MNFuz-0008T3-Oq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:49:21 -0400 Received: from mailout2-1.pacific.net.au ([61.8.2.224]:33693 helo=mailout2.pacific.net.au) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MNFuz-0008Nb-5l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:49:21 -0400 Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (mailproxy2.pacific.net.au [61.8.2.163]) by mailout2.pacific.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id B35CE16B032 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 2009 10:49:15 +1000 (EST) Received: from blah.blah (ppp2165.dyn.pacific.net.au [61.8.33.101]) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D9527415 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 2009 10:49:09 +1000 (EST) Received: from gg by blah.blah with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MNFu4-00049t-P2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:48:24 +1000 From: Kevin Ryde To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: eval-after-load 'ffap vs provide at start of file Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:48:24 +1000 Message-ID: <87ljn4x8dj.fsf@blah.blah> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/22.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) Starting from emacs -Q, evaluating (progn (eval-after-load 'ffap '(setq ffap-newsgroup-heads (remove "misc" ffap-newsgroup-heads))) (require 'ffap)) gets an error void-variable ffap-newsgroup-heads where I hoped the eval-after-load meant after ffap is available and therefore its various variables exist. It looks like ffap.el has (provide 'ffap) near the start of the file, instead of at the end. The end is usual so that eval-after-load can be used on a feature symbol as above, is it? In GNU Emacs 22.3.1 (i486-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.14.7) of 2009-03-31 on raven, modified by Debian configured using `configure '--build=i486-linux-gnu' '--host=i486-linux-gnu' '--prefix=/usr' '--sharedstatedir=/var/lib' '--libexecdir=/usr/lib' '--localstatedir=/var/lib' '--infodir=/usr/share/info' '--mandir=/usr/share/man' '--with-pop=yes' '--enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs22:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/22.3/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/22.3/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/22.3/leim' '--with-x=yes' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk' '--with-toolkit-scroll-bars' 'build_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'host_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'CFLAGS=-DDEBIAN -g -O2' 'LDFLAGS=-g' 'CPPFLAGS='' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: en_AU locale-coding-system: iso-8859-1 default-enable-multibyte-characters: t ------------=_1246842006-23557-1-- From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:11:24 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#3756: eval-after-load 'ffap vs provide at start of file Reply-To: Kevin Ryde , 3756@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Kevin Ryde Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:10:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 3756 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 3756-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B3756.124700418530578 (code B ref 3756); Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:10:04 +0000 Received: (at 3756) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Jul 2009 22:03:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mailout1.pacific.net.au (mailout1-1.pacific.net.au [61.8.2.208]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n67M2wDp030562 for <3756@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:03:00 -0700 Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (mailproxy2.pacific.net.au [61.8.2.163]) by mailout1.pacific.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8557C4FCC7B; Wed, 8 Jul 2009 08:02:56 +1000 (EST) Received: from blah.blah (ppp208C.dyn.pacific.net.au [61.8.32.140]) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6682740B; Wed, 8 Jul 2009 08:02:55 +1000 (EST) Received: from gg by blah.blah with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MOIkU-0001Cy-Pj; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:02:50 +1000 From: Kevin Ryde To: Glenn Morris Cc: 3756@debbugs.gnu.org References: <87ljn4x8dj.fsf@blah.blah> Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:02:50 +1000 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:18:18 -0400") Message-ID: <871vosxib9.fsf@blah.blah> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/22.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" --=-=-= Glenn Morris writes: > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-06/msg00202.html I didn't see that. Doing provide when a feature is not yet ready for use would seem fairly dubious though, in normal circumstances. > I'll mention something about this in the doc of eval-after-load. provide could cross-reference eval-after-load, if that helped remind to take care with what point it's called, perhaps per below. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: inline; filename=loading.texi.provide-xref-eval-after-load.diff *** loading.texi 17 Mar 2009 10:34:05 +1100 1.10 --- loading.texi 08 Jul 2009 07:40:12 +1000 *************** *** 733,742 **** associated with @var{feature} are or will be available for other Lisp programs. ! The direct effect of calling @code{provide} is to add @var{feature} to ! the front of the list @code{features} if it is not already in the list. ! The argument @var{feature} must be a symbol. @code{provide} returns ! @var{feature}. If provided, @var{subfeatures} should be a list of symbols indicating a set of specific subfeatures provided by this version of --- 733,743 ---- associated with @var{feature} are or will be available for other Lisp programs. ! The direct effect of calling @code{provide} is if not already in ! @var{features} then to add @var{feature} to the front of that list and ! call any @code{eval-after-load} code waiting for it (@pxref{Hooks for ! Loading}). The argument @var{feature} must be a symbol. ! @code{provide} returns @var{feature}. If provided, @var{subfeatures} should be a list of symbols indicating a set of specific subfeatures provided by this version of --=-=-=-- From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:11:24 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#3756: eval-after-load 'ffap vs provide at start of file Reply-To: Glenn Morris , 3756@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Glenn Morris Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:45:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 3756 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 3756-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B3756.124734118420987 (code B ref 3756); Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:45:04 +0000 Received: (at 3756) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 11 Jul 2009 19:39:44 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, X_DEBBUGS_NO_ACK autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n6BJdeR9020981 for <3756@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:39:42 -0700 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MPiQ5-0001oW-Qp; Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:39:37 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Kevin Ryde Cc: 3756@debbugs.gnu.org References: <87ljn4x8dj.fsf@blah.blah> <871vosxib9.fsf@blah.blah> X-Spook: red noise undercover infowar Europol Panama HAMASMOIS X-Ran: oh}_+~yG.8zZ("-uHO'wtBp^b=RHDUlO,Z.CKrN;HoOTaEVbrtq$}YH]MjeoJu+cv}q(w= X-Hue: green X-Attribution: GM Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:39:37 -0400 In-Reply-To: <871vosxib9.fsf@blah.blah> (Kevin Ryde's message of "Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:02:50 +1000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks; added.