From gg@zip.com.au Sat Jul 4 17:49:36 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 5 Jul 2009 00:49:36 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n650nVf9017656 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 2009 17:49:33 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MNFv4-00007M-BM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:49:26 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MNFuz-0008TC-SP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:49:25 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51073 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MNFuz-0008T3-Oq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:49:21 -0400 Received: from mailout2-1.pacific.net.au ([61.8.2.224]:33693 helo=mailout2.pacific.net.au) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MNFuz-0008Nb-5l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:49:21 -0400 Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (mailproxy2.pacific.net.au [61.8.2.163]) by mailout2.pacific.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id B35CE16B032 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 2009 10:49:15 +1000 (EST) Received: from blah.blah (ppp2165.dyn.pacific.net.au [61.8.33.101]) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D9527415 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 2009 10:49:09 +1000 (EST) Received: from gg by blah.blah with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MNFu4-00049t-P2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:48:24 +1000 From: Kevin Ryde To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: eval-after-load 'ffap vs provide at start of file Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:48:24 +1000 Message-ID: <87ljn4x8dj.fsf@blah.blah> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/22.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) Starting from emacs -Q, evaluating (progn (eval-after-load 'ffap '(setq ffap-newsgroup-heads (remove "misc" ffap-newsgroup-heads))) (require 'ffap)) gets an error void-variable ffap-newsgroup-heads where I hoped the eval-after-load meant after ffap is available and therefore its various variables exist. It looks like ffap.el has (provide 'ffap) near the start of the file, instead of at the end. The end is usual so that eval-after-load can be used on a feature symbol as above, is it? In GNU Emacs 22.3.1 (i486-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.14.7) of 2009-03-31 on raven, modified by Debian configured using `configure '--build=i486-linux-gnu' '--host=i486-linux-gnu' '--prefix=/usr' '--sharedstatedir=/var/lib' '--libexecdir=/usr/lib' '--localstatedir=/var/lib' '--infodir=/usr/share/info' '--mandir=/usr/share/man' '--with-pop=yes' '--enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs22:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/22.3/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/22.3/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/22.3/leim' '--with-x=yes' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk' '--with-toolkit-scroll-bars' 'build_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'host_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'CFLAGS=-DDEBIAN -g -O2' 'LDFLAGS=-g' 'CPPFLAGS='' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: en_AU locale-coding-system: iso-8859-1 default-enable-multibyte-characters: t From rgm@gnu.org Sat Jul 4 19:18:28 2009 Received: (at 3756) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 5 Jul 2009 02:18:28 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, X_DEBBUGS_NO_ACK autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n652ILYV001087 for <3756@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 4 Jul 2009 19:18:22 -0700 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MNHJ4-0000XV-G3; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:18:18 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Kevin Ryde Cc: 3756@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#3756: eval-after-load 'ffap vs provide at start of file References: <87ljn4x8dj.fsf@blah.blah> X-Spook: Ortega PGP Telex Area 51 Taiwan sniper Lon Horiuchi X-Ran: LE-)v(79$J"ngbgC&M[EUF~uc'+%Ea'Ak>Ez1g"2~K.{7`aIovJ05iU{5_vv:KYK[^5_e_ X-Hue: magenta X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:18:18 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87ljn4x8dj.fsf@blah.blah> (Kevin Ryde's message of "Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:48:24 +1000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Kevin Ryde wrote: > It looks like ffap.el has (provide 'ffap) near the start of the file, > instead of at the end. The end is usual so that eval-after-load can be > used on a feature symbol as above, is it? I don't see why the ffap one shouldn't be at the end, but as discussed in the context of this very example last month, you cannot rely on provide always being at the end of a file: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-06/msg00202.html I'll mention something about this in the doc of eval-after-load. From rgm@gnu.org Sun Jul 5 17:52:20 2009 Received: (at 3756-done) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 6 Jul 2009 00:52:21 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, X_DEBBUGS_NO_ACK autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n660qGnv022606 for <3756-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:52:17 -0700 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MNcRK-00050q-AI; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:52:14 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: 3756-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#3756: eval-after-load 'ffap vs provide at start of file References: <87ljn4x8dj.fsf@blah.blah> X-Spook: bomb Armani Compsec 22nd SAS quiche EuroFed Lexis-Nexis X-Ran: kEX5~dul>QDnbVBpPiKV:h(C{*Ijd;N6D(}:yJXH`tJ6#7^PLq7c/3y<-eoeMDI/LA-s3# X-Hue: blue X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:52:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:18:18 -0400") Message-ID: <81iqi663b5.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Doc fix for eval-after-load; ffap provide moved to end for 23.2. From gg@zip.com.au Tue Jul 7 15:03:04 2009 Received: (at 3756) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Jul 2009 22:03:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mailout1.pacific.net.au (mailout1-1.pacific.net.au [61.8.2.208]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n67M2wDp030562 for <3756@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:03:00 -0700 Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (mailproxy2.pacific.net.au [61.8.2.163]) by mailout1.pacific.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8557C4FCC7B; Wed, 8 Jul 2009 08:02:56 +1000 (EST) Received: from blah.blah (ppp208C.dyn.pacific.net.au [61.8.32.140]) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6682740B; Wed, 8 Jul 2009 08:02:55 +1000 (EST) Received: from gg by blah.blah with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MOIkU-0001Cy-Pj; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:02:50 +1000 From: Kevin Ryde To: Glenn Morris Cc: 3756@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#3756: eval-after-load 'ffap vs provide at start of file References: <87ljn4x8dj.fsf@blah.blah> Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:02:50 +1000 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:18:18 -0400") Message-ID: <871vosxib9.fsf@blah.blah> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/22.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" --=-=-= Glenn Morris writes: > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-06/msg00202.html I didn't see that. Doing provide when a feature is not yet ready for use would seem fairly dubious though, in normal circumstances. > I'll mention something about this in the doc of eval-after-load. provide could cross-reference eval-after-load, if that helped remind to take care with what point it's called, perhaps per below. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: inline; filename=loading.texi.provide-xref-eval-after-load.diff *** loading.texi 17 Mar 2009 10:34:05 +1100 1.10 --- loading.texi 08 Jul 2009 07:40:12 +1000 *************** *** 733,742 **** associated with @var{feature} are or will be available for other Lisp programs. ! The direct effect of calling @code{provide} is to add @var{feature} to ! the front of the list @code{features} if it is not already in the list. ! The argument @var{feature} must be a symbol. @code{provide} returns ! @var{feature}. If provided, @var{subfeatures} should be a list of symbols indicating a set of specific subfeatures provided by this version of --- 733,743 ---- associated with @var{feature} are or will be available for other Lisp programs. ! The direct effect of calling @code{provide} is if not already in ! @var{features} then to add @var{feature} to the front of that list and ! call any @code{eval-after-load} code waiting for it (@pxref{Hooks for ! Loading}). The argument @var{feature} must be a symbol. ! @code{provide} returns @var{feature}. If provided, @var{subfeatures} should be a list of symbols indicating a set of specific subfeatures provided by this version of --=-=-=-- From rgm@gnu.org Sat Jul 11 12:39:44 2009 Received: (at 3756) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 11 Jul 2009 19:39:44 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, X_DEBBUGS_NO_ACK autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n6BJdeR9020981 for <3756@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:39:42 -0700 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MPiQ5-0001oW-Qp; Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:39:37 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Kevin Ryde Cc: 3756@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#3756: eval-after-load 'ffap vs provide at start of file References: <87ljn4x8dj.fsf@blah.blah> <871vosxib9.fsf@blah.blah> X-Spook: red noise undercover infowar Europol Panama HAMASMOIS X-Ran: oh}_+~yG.8zZ("-uHO'wtBp^b=RHDUlO,Z.CKrN;HoOTaEVbrtq$}YH]MjeoJu+cv}q(w= X-Hue: green X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:39:37 -0400 In-Reply-To: <871vosxib9.fsf@blah.blah> (Kevin Ryde's message of "Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:02:50 +1000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks; added. From unknown Sat Aug 16 11:10:24 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: $requester Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 14:24:13 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # A New Hope # A log time ago, in a galaxy far, far away # something happened. # # Magically this resulted in the following # action being taken, but this fake control # message doesn't tell you why it happened # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator