From unknown Sun Jun 22 22:41:25 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#37447 <37447@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#37447 <37447@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 26.3; Commands on and Reply-To: bug#37447 <37447@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 05:41:25 +0000 retitle 37447 26.3; Commands on and reassign 37447 emacs submitter 37447 Sebastian Urban severity 37447 wishlist thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 18 07:46:06 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Sep 2019 11:46:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53671 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iAYPN-0007Kd-OW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 07:46:05 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:34885) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iAYPJ-0007K2-MH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 07:46:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48505) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iAYPI-0001Dx-IG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 07:46:01 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, SPOOFED_FREEMAIL autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iAYPH-0001Sz-K1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 07:46:00 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-x133.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::133]:43938) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iAYPH-0001S7-CN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 07:45:59 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-x133.google.com with SMTP id u3so5429063lfl.10 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 04:45:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=bvGQsfpPL2hRXF3pyLYuR/JwGxJqe90V9CdAXlNP0T0=; b=OE1BeYpFbOvuYZThGWzWTfGQ/70uFmOLnH/h/b7pzHqZnDtOBhFbSmlh12+SF3FvZ0 rHfPI0RfG7RUh7qppHfPJMDZh5TZxZQFCo2kiptT22GLZDUsBaYaaqj0WZ74ahCO/ba7 NYi+A4ctOK0ln2QX0qxkKGbmqNd2kBqd8K7tC5+cJyVyr5gfkZb6zJk7FNJW3mqFIUy6 6/dGVqZPdJ6WAwCLgTYLAYvcL0WoFdHE5hBQyNx9h7hbfqRWfi/xfrZkH8z/4OkP/JSW NiPVcdyEUKdcW7/U52t/LAHK6+pBRBdwWMfRsKc9JdBVruPRNY+GLla8aH+SZqINklVt xx4A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=bvGQsfpPL2hRXF3pyLYuR/JwGxJqe90V9CdAXlNP0T0=; b=oPGIRY9QgikMK1XNWs0yqnjhgB0NSwwqfrTIXDtcM+298HHcybp5Bm00jftlM06SAT xz6rKBy27R5tiqGOjMq6DCP7igMElHGI7nMNs0imS0Qebckul2fYPr+iK5jUlkUxpFl5 59Mr3Px3Tbob9pPAb7kqbmpoxOP18GDm4FvsrQVE5yjcZXpxXRtgzT32kpSbIIqm9gig EELa1sv1rxElG7tNJjYmDhsrxUaiYRX/nYYXXeWmAc7RYOEMd9JGThhV/8fVfIUMHqqV 7dZj/fA0ubsBNfDuCYW3M8JljCrymnI6TdDE7f0UFzCBiWFUXUo/PWX2coIXDOuRkc+Z IsQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVcgTFVkJkc6HD5p1BXZTjRbHnqvzvN49wb0eVw1JeVwhDmx2jf L5nM1VSHF4ZkTcwbSI/1CkuLUOxe X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx9+ppc9pLyaH3Ls1JjBYNDV8RqpG0ee0FGqRuTTfRHrEZA+PCGrMX2/tnrUT9CJlCpS8720w== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4853:: with SMTP id 19mr1838846lfy.69.1568807157383; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 04:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [89.161.0.90] (ip-89-161-0-90.tel.tkb.net.pl. [89.161.0.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u21sm1004885lje.92.2019.09.18.04.45.55 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 18 Sep 2019 04:45:56 -0700 (PDT) To: Bug GNU Emacs From: Sebastian Urban Subject: 26.3; Commands on and Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 13:45:57 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::133 X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Just a few thoughts about deleting and killing commands. We have: + "Delete" - [] (delete-forward-char) - (kill-word) - M-DEL [] (backward-kill-word) ? Perhaps C- should do (backward-kill-word) and should (kill-word). Then would be like 'M-d', which seems to be correct way. Content analysis details: (1.1 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (mrsebastianurban[at]gmail.com) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record -2.3 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, medium trust [209.51.188.17 listed in list.dnswl.org] 2.4 SPOOFED_FREEMAIL No description available. X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) Just a few thoughts about deleting and killing commands. We have: + "Delete" - [] (delete-forward-char) - (kill-word) - M-DEL [] (backward-kill-word) ? Perhaps C- should do (backward-kill-word) and should (kill-word). Then would be like 'M-d', which seems to be correct way. + "Backspace" - DEL [] (delete-backward-char) - (backward-kill-word) - M-DEL [M-] (backward-kill-word) ? as another (backward-kill-word) on the same button is useless(?), maybe change it to (backward-kill-sentence), because it's less typing than 'C-x DEL'? And then (perhaps) assign 'C-x DEL' to new function "backward kill line" (kill-line with 0 argument?). OR let 'C-x DEL' backward kill sentence, and assign backward kill line to 'C-DEL'. ? Also perhaps rebind 'C-S-backspace' to 'C-M-backspace' for (kill-whole-line)? S. U. GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 18 08:39:33 2019 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Sep 2019 12:39:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53715 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iAZF7-0000HU-GY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:39:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47016) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iAZF6-0000HH-GU for 37447@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:39:32 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59083) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iAZF1-0004iY-Bg; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:39:27 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1859 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iAZEz-0004Kf-5e; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:39:25 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:39:27 +0300 Message-Id: <83blvhvkw0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Sebastian Urban In-reply-to: (message from Sebastian Urban on Wed, 18 Sep 2019 13:45:57 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: 37447@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Sebastian Urban > Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 13:45:57 +0200 > > We have: > + "Delete" > - [] (delete-forward-char) > - (kill-word) > - M-DEL [] (backward-kill-word) > > ? Perhaps C- should do (backward-kill-word) and > should (kill-word). Then would be like 'M-d', which > seems to be correct way. > > + "Backspace" > - DEL [] (delete-backward-char) > - (backward-kill-word) > - M-DEL [M-] (backward-kill-word) > > ? as another (backward-kill-word) on the same button is > useless(?), maybe change it to (backward-kill-sentence), because > it's less typing than 'C-x DEL'? And then (perhaps) assign 'C-x > DEL' to new function "backward kill line" (kill-line with 0 > argument?). OR let 'C-x DEL' backward kill sentence, and assign > backward kill line to 'C-DEL'. > > ? Also perhaps rebind 'C-S-backspace' to 'C-M-backspace' for > (kill-whole-line)? These key bindings are too old to change them in the default configuration. You can, of course, change them in your personal configuration. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 18 09:18:25 2019 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Sep 2019 13:18:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53732 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iAZqj-0001Dv-7B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 09:18:25 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-f50.google.com ([209.85.167.50]:34701) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iAZqd-0001DZ-1H for 37447@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 09:18:23 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-f50.google.com with SMTP id r22so5714759lfm.1 for <37447@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 06:18:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xlmfUgyhgXa21TQdbo4fua5JxPgGAZVXcljBZMf7Yy4=; b=JwI77PKwgrQrYSUoYqv14Zt/sLV0Hl38yilWaWtNxriDcEahe8zSi2JqcDhLVh7FGq wocaTrJGuQ6gRAW3BHFf1JHIKWNhfpORe3wYB7cwKhErATnVQQWZ+uQBuGjXJELvXw3p NREqpnw7+7S3L7O8cJGQwNJJC8G/VbbXSCxxvxT75RsDUBWgRulI2BZQj+kVHB4QKagL LePK1MRWCTtGYZKHQZhEizHLDRngMuiFHP8UKnd3lWLV7XupaH4Q/RlEEaqap8u8SbMd cdKHAZ165ATOiotLTMyyZAWgZjqEGg0xIoJos1pvAU0ZCLGKOJjnbJ4+VQz50r1GTpM+ bo1Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=xlmfUgyhgXa21TQdbo4fua5JxPgGAZVXcljBZMf7Yy4=; b=XFqKDcxTv3xnI2ukn82J+bcFqcUE9JiMNP9GcZNnIdffKL+2OOghaqJkjmn8k2le/q hW1QDRde0Id7vwE+qXL2Xl4RsJ7FRz9z9+ZFhhL2J6528A0uZVZMy+t02hamhhDAb3Y/ NKNkxCZW6H478jr/tZbTRm1ICfqnf/ziirX509/4uT6Tz9bB9/lu3sXT0kkf5D65fB0T 3B/gqr7C/n9gdSpAlORBR6mAYuFoDbQDc5jSYa2787IjbMpmVHhIwyT51u87gnWi7Cpp Tyn67w/U+EiOHJe2Uvg4OpUbwfysjQ8cFktb470k68HQT0BXgT/tAA9H0xNKYZRk28hl ysfQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV+H6gNCBFWWtchD+qYizBHwo0Q0JE+8X6yyBZYi+EWmQzoaAoT bLcprIt9BsyYxHuks0CBREEurgZk X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwpH3XDpjiqHLCaBVMPFLrKjrLwCtKhrnB2/RhaotTzCUYyN1bWRkUyMZSGm9aqckmlrjUGZg== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:47f8:: with SMTP id b24mr2143902lfp.134.1568812692496; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 06:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [89.161.0.90] (ip-89-161-0-90.tel.tkb.net.pl. [89.161.0.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h12sm1020885ljg.24.2019.09.18.06.18.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 18 Sep 2019 06:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83blvhvkw0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Sebastian Urban Message-ID: <14e4c460-b349-00f8-1705-81d89ab4930c@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:18:13 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83blvhvkw0.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: 37447@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > These key bindings are too old to change them in the default > configuration. So inconsistency with 'M-d' and 'M-' will stay and 'C-' & 'M-' doing the same thing will also stay because of history? I could ignore 'C-S-', but previous two cases should be "updated". But if "No." means "No." - close the bug, please. Unless we are waiting for more opinions. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 19 16:49:39 2019 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2019 20:49:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56494 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iB3Mx-00009Y-05 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 16:49:39 -0400 Received: from bonobo.elm.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.212.22]:51032) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iB3Mu-00009O-Cx for 37447@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 16:49:37 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A6495023DF; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 20:49:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a17.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-38-104.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.38.104]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 99D60502349; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 20:49:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a17.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.17.5); Thu, 19 Sep 2019 20:49:35 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Robust-Tart: 28f840ad6459e561_1568926173843_57893520 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1568926173843:3266402251 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1568926173843 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a17.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a17.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CBAC836B4; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 13:49:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=linkov.net; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=linkov.net; bh=tXW9l/zB8SQT+SWIVyuulXIQ4TI=; b= CvL2nTmQxkLG4G4YMgY0thgmtv32DU0zJ+JiiLa8SDC3mizr+QS5G4EDSk/4Msrf r158nG36JTeN4Pw0jgXeEyE/ejBV6keAZ4ADvtojiW4EC9KXr1Xchn9RJG4vNztI zOBqxvZOBSBQouXa/j/TDzszHxQGyTFiebL5PzfAWNM= Received: from mail.jurta.org (m91-129-107-243.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.107.243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jurta@jurta.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a17.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D1A138369D; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 13:49:23 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a17 From: Juri Linkov To: Sebastian Urban Subject: Re: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83blvhvkw0.fsf@gnu.org> <14e4c460-b349-00f8-1705-81d89ab4930c@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 23:31:21 +0300 In-Reply-To: <14e4c460-b349-00f8-1705-81d89ab4930c@gmail.com> (Sebastian Urban's message of "Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:18:13 +0200") Message-ID: <877e64qgby.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvddtgdduheehucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhephffvufhofhffjgfkfgggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomheplfhurhhiucfnihhnkhhovhcuoehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtqeenucfkphepledurdduvdelrddutdejrddvgeefnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehmrghilhdrjhhurhhtrgdrohhrghdpihhnvghtpeeluddruddvledruddtjedrvdegfedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthheplfhurhhiucfnihhnkhhovhcuoehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtpdhnrhgtphhtthhopehmrhhsvggsrghsthhirghnuhhrsggrnhesghhmrghilhdrtghomhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedv X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 37447@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> These key bindings are too old to change them in the default >> configuration. > > So inconsistency with 'M-d' and 'M-' will stay and > 'C-' & 'M-' doing the same thing will also stay > because of history? I could ignore 'C-S-', but previous > two cases should be "updated". > > But if "No." means "No." - close the bug, please. Unless we are > waiting for more opinions. Imagine many users using the same keys for years, and now they will start doing the opposite - a recipe for disaster. But if a safer solution is possible, then I'd recommend binding one of C- or M- prefixes to sexp killing commands because their default prefix C-M- can't be used: C-M-DEL runs system shutdown, and C-M- kills the X server. There is a replacement C-M-k for kill-sexp, but no key for backward-kill-sexp. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 19 17:17:43 2019 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2019 21:17:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56510 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iB3o7-0000sN-0E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 17:17:43 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:56498) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iB3o2-0000s5-MA for 37447@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 17:17:41 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8JL8kYc056872; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 21:17:32 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=6KboWCbl0vMNbWVrtWmMw1zUFocpwPSVYE2iPM2t1UM=; b=U85uA6bXYEP72AP7RO7g+GEKY1f8yDPPUAqV52gu31W8Df3tlrQJ9UZEBwyTgm30AXNb z5112sIwSjIOWqiRRhH3zZubJXVIklJrJtOZMSWwoX27pYJuo6duDJcuszlzxbjAABLe Bt87Zjo7k1JTyKVICOasJrA5cEqXBPGSf30B3sSQUibNlDndQNIDO2wM/X7BuObZQ0Jy ZyKKYxWrcD4JSdxtK3XevHXYHUighvhEkSX7b8SkMAFIzfqw9xWBKfFhicc6cvnkVI8F ztaEAX7/q1dP46fA4ktHyX2G8bVFpPatyTqG5xa4uDhRYKwj84RfU7yUMXRt5h4XgIR/ EA== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2v3vb56mga-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 Sep 2019 21:17:32 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8JL8toI023129; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 21:17:31 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2v3vbgva9a-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 Sep 2019 21:17:31 +0000 Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x8JLHU2S001004; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 21:17:30 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <077979fb-c46c-495d-9d91-ed94b619cb25@default> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 14:17:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Juri Linkov , Sebastian Urban Subject: RE: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and References: <83blvhvkw0.fsf@gnu.org> <14e4c460-b349-00f8-1705-81d89ab4930c@gmail.com> <877e64qgby.fsf@mail.linkov.net> In-Reply-To: <877e64qgby.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4888.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9385 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909190176 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9385 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909190176 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: 37447@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > But if a safer solution is possible, then I'd recommend > binding one of C- or M- prefixes to sexp killing commands > because their default prefix C-M- can't be used: C-M-DEL > runs system shutdown, and C-M- kills the X server. > There is a replacement C-M-k for kill-sexp, but no key > for backward-kill-sexp. Please don't use just `C-' or just `M-' for sexp commands. Please use the conventional `C-M-'. FWIW, `C-M-k' for `kill-sexp', and `C-M- for `backward-kill-sexp', work on at least some platforms, such as MS Windows.=20 And for uses of Meta that are problematic for some platforms, users can always use ESC. E.g. `ESC C-k' instead of `C-M-k' or `ESC C-' for `C-M-'. Admittedly not as handy, but usable (and users with that problem can always rebind them). (BTW, did you mean `C-M-' instead of `C-M-DEL'? The latter doesn't seem to be bound by default.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 19 17:59:38 2019 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2019 21:59:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56533 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iB4Sg-0001y8-Cq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 17:59:38 -0400 Received: from mail-io1-f43.google.com ([209.85.166.43]:39075) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iB4Se-0001xv-Tz for 37447@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 17:59:37 -0400 Received: by mail-io1-f43.google.com with SMTP id a1so11510959ioc.6 for <37447@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 14:59:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=0TN/1YvIeEn0hb7v14yzMQT26VC+I6+cm6sxPWGDIng=; b=bacbS6SwWTP+sXVA/fmhPUdbgFI27196HtH9DZa7krsm9pu8jWT8vYLxi2Ke4V3J9i cdk0rjcZwOWZBdmk69C4PRgAq4p44mc8DpbZmqUZFLg7fbJgzbnxgf7lrTbbELdbWRHa AoAh5tqXPof1s4g1Pth723NzbvQY6eJiOMPJ7OWvg2ijZOnZW1GI/aKcH5HvhcRig4mH 9v3u6szPLTvjQy253edHsxclv0DSZiQJYi0gyaQQHL+WrKW2BUBU6ByWTSxx0dFo7j5A n5dMyPo0hYbj2e7hxxHWWXrHYqpu0SytFkN801qiP9T+doVBgcZ7CsuAcIBB/Q/oPxBJ sL0Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=0TN/1YvIeEn0hb7v14yzMQT26VC+I6+cm6sxPWGDIng=; b=bZMOFAyL0MuperjBnqQi1UhbzusQLIwgc4da8sgSDhdkT0P3x2Gez0Dcr2bns2c27E 44FsKyPOMvT2DDBVgfTfSQVb1hiYFtQZYCWpp4KKgaEgtR7zkwRgJjJh1bCOS+QZsJoY REoQWyEQ2LHST62nrOK/d3llMr82w7gUGzRGlYPuk1ml+2YgAkLgCIllmE88qOxZNen6 C+sDUaWU4t5GJNPaN5uslmjzsq+JfJMHX3ShB8uxubnNRsURAv39gUqje6psDZFiOiBX JalEL9wefxm7+YSN/VcfJtcGHFbPkWzMVrfWrdTiBWY2Pjti6jf8rKdLLs0NSlVQNnQ/ eanw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW0JGnBCZ8qX0ypiM92qRrLVULBvfk2nyQXUxbv4cJDtAX/Jz7F uWmUPDNit8E00UuaJVsPhXn6/JWy X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyjhwgmIaQdTjksAJ8/sJEd3raLYlQQ48+Dz1zcS6QleT1Nx8xdoIFFvdSMy5C2qps5OtNFTQ== X-Received: by 2002:a6b:f80f:: with SMTP id o15mr5654226ioh.174.1568930371158; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 14:59:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost2 (CPE001143542e1f-CMf81d0f809fa0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.230.38.42]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v3sm13494ioh.51.2019.09.19.14.59.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 19 Sep 2019 14:59:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Postavsky To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and References: <83blvhvkw0.fsf@gnu.org> <14e4c460-b349-00f8-1705-81d89ab4930c@gmail.com> <877e64qgby.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <077979fb-c46c-495d-9d91-ed94b619cb25@default> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 17:59:29 -0400 In-Reply-To: <077979fb-c46c-495d-9d91-ed94b619cb25@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 19 Sep 2019 14:17:29 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <85o8zgj6bi.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: Sebastian Urban , 37447@debbugs.gnu.org, Juri Linkov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: >> But if a safer solution is possible, then I'd recommend >> binding one of C- or M- prefixes to sexp killing commands >> because their default prefix C-M- can't be used: C-M-DEL >> runs system shutdown, and C-M- kills the X server. > FWIW, `C-M-k' for `kill-sexp', and `C-M- > for `backward-kill-sexp', work on at least some > platforms, such as MS Windows. FWIW, recent (since around 2007~2010 from what I see on the web) Xorg disables C-M- as the kill X server by default. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 19 18:17:08 2019 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2019 22:17:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56554 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iB4jb-0002Sf-TW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 18:17:08 -0400 Received: from eastern.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.55]:62020) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iB4jZ-0002SU-VI for 37447@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 18:17:06 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC1A66A2560; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 22:17:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a17.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-84-221.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.84.221]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5411F6A1D97; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 22:17:04 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a17.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.17.5); Thu, 19 Sep 2019 22:17:04 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Blushing-Bored: 1bb74c6835711b9e_1568931424586_3862640748 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1568931424586:2750756477 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1568931424585 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a17.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a17.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32372836B1; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 15:17:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=linkov.net; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=linkov.net; bh=YRZjTTaXnz4Wy/+/+t5V4ElBdbE=; b= faazYR4DRyW4kIX551ERnRchnzydRYN9QgfWkQmvfyT29xWmQoe5kyEaE2KGrRRK 61WT7UjpFHHZtCBR01przNvxiQzjPtAAK+JRcG5j4L35qHgrqBXfXoz9bKtubwd6 A0HdSDE8IQ6adOWByeZxNsHc2xeZllPM7ZVc9PQlsn8= Received: from mail.jurta.org (m91-129-107-243.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.107.243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jurta@jurta.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a17.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 27457836BC; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 15:16:57 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a17 From: Juri Linkov To: Noam Postavsky Subject: Re: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83blvhvkw0.fsf@gnu.org> <14e4c460-b349-00f8-1705-81d89ab4930c@gmail.com> <877e64qgby.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <077979fb-c46c-495d-9d91-ed94b619cb25@default> <85o8zgj6bi.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 01:13:32 +0300 In-Reply-To: <85o8zgj6bi.fsf@gmail.com> (Noam Postavsky's message of "Thu, 19 Sep 2019 17:59:29 -0400") Message-ID: <87h858nddf.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvddugddtjecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefhvffuohhfffgjkfgfgggtsehttdertddtredtnecuhfhrohhmpefluhhrihcunfhinhhkohhvuceojhhurhhisehlihhnkhhovhdrnhgvtheqnecukfhppeeluddruddvledruddtjedrvdegfeenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghlohepmhgrihhlrdhjuhhrthgrrdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepledurdduvdelrddutdejrddvgeefpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpefluhhrihcunfhinhhkohhvuceojhhurhhisehlihhnkhhovhdrnhgvtheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhurhhisehlihhnkhhovhdrnhgvthdpnhhrtghpthhtohepnhhpohhsthgrvhhssehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: Sebastian Urban , 37447@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>> But if a safer solution is possible, then I'd recommend >>> binding one of C- or M- prefixes to sexp killing commands >>> because their default prefix C-M- can't be used: C-M-DEL >>> runs system shutdown, and C-M- kills the X server. > >> FWIW, `C-M-k' for `kill-sexp', and `C-M- >> for `backward-kill-sexp', work on at least some >> platforms, such as MS Windows. Currently I use `M-- C-M-k' as a replacement of `backward-kill-sexp'. > FWIW, recent (since around 2007~2010 from what I see on the web) Xorg > disables C-M- as the kill X server by default. I can't confirm since I'm afraid of typing these keys :) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 20 04:17:47 2019 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Sep 2019 08:17:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56735 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBE6t-00015B-B7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 04:17:47 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-f48.google.com ([209.85.167.48]:32896) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBE6q-00014u-V6 for 37447@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 04:17:45 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-f48.google.com with SMTP id y127so4426246lfc.0 for <37447@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 01:17:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:cc:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xoJbCLIZIV/pHinpgUu9li0B0g0SaQnVrZag1oCz4u0=; b=nNi3hPpnkgmZd7vdyEp5+XQBammB85WH0gJPqe8HwngL0nyqIAg8toGjHsMtYLPa5P bpWCBu1PF3MNhgSRuEKvXAHEB7yET7D2QuFi3zHnnOVXjNLaLgfhmoBMdJ1gEPVkdJK6 dKe0T7IkiLKr+jZramidw8lH0CdT8EJLqumFEsQZnM4uFgjUvkDEffPdAFUiqRjXDRkE mz6by0c1Ef+slP742hpZ5EnZKzoubdB/vQvx3is60SWaUheJZSeGPsExCGsWveVe4O0F R9jbLketOKObDTksea7OGyzIKcmD1jb5kp2+YE3LmRc9fPsmpQEGd2FmQ8bxpypd2J7W AEqg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:cc:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xoJbCLIZIV/pHinpgUu9li0B0g0SaQnVrZag1oCz4u0=; b=uPNmCz7+rceFR/SkHekMxQmMyba3VKawyFXjRlemk573TasM1FWf9jowpBqnO3uzRt aPbleXoQPNwseHmbR4HnUb2vo/WlE84uxW0oy/xiXlhGx0H7r79wJCtdazjbB11wntrh koQPZfoT22z18lH0fRikVD1WYD8sg6VmGMpIEqaWtd2tU/SyFxe+MBKPcaPmg7AJj9ic RPE16B1v8UiZKdDp2RPJzBp7dnqYj6kGYfM0Wf/THVqc6gP9Ahw8Tro4nDyYamajUAmZ Ouz5A8LuOH0waBTCObBvZlWngC/NpSKOv8mcGL0WcC0KqY07Ljuwz/TCHp/qMXig8IrI ARDg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWEC3Rb5sUywFDjA2u66MhPrw3We7NU3sW4JGoalpD96QeY1je0 10RYtIK13wFa1FF5KbNQq0Vs01NDBwQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx2TIIOb1yP0kWDHXnjkRPI1ZLkQNTyL1G3pnMRZeVmZi7KO0ne1imwo8qNMgzPOKXUsinz6Q== X-Received: by 2002:a19:a408:: with SMTP id q8mr7853332lfc.94.1568967458656; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 01:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [89.161.0.90] (ip-89-161-0-90.tel.tkb.net.pl. [89.161.0.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e19sm261500lja.8.2019.09.20.01.17.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 20 Sep 2019 01:17:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Sebastian Urban Subject: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and To: juri@linkov.net Message-ID: <8e473f5a-2582-7086-8bd8-da75c00607d5@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 10:17:38 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: 37447@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Imagine many users using the same keys for years, and now > they will start doing the opposite - a recipe for disaster. And that's why I'm not proposing changing C-b/n/p/f to C-h/j/k/l. But these two cases (without C-S-) I pointed out doesn't seem very critical, moreover they look like a bug (with 'M-' deleting backward instead of forward as 'M-d' does - 'C-d' does similar thing do , so 'M-...' should also be similar) or like a leftover from the past ('C-') that could be reused for something useful. Also, there are "obsolete" functions that are removed after few versions of Emacs, so why not do the same thing to key bindings? They don't change that often, so it won't be a revolution, right? Keeping old key bindings forever(?), especially when user can change them, is rather strange - confusion among new users, less keys for new/other commands, etc. I think Emacs should have one default key per command, older should be marked as "obsolete" and removed after 1 or 2 major versions. But, this is from perspective of a beginner, so... From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 20 04:36:26 2019 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Sep 2019 08:36:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56749 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBEOw-0001eR-JS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 04:36:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36652) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBEOv-0001eD-0B for 37447@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 04:36:25 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35370) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iBEOp-0001hJ-Pn; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 04:36:19 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4662 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iBEOp-00042P-45; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 04:36:19 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:36:24 +0300 Message-Id: <834l17tldj.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Sebastian Urban In-reply-to: <8e473f5a-2582-7086-8bd8-da75c00607d5@gmail.com> (message from Sebastian Urban on Fri, 20 Sep 2019 10:17:38 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and References: <8e473f5a-2582-7086-8bd8-da75c00607d5@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: 37447@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Sebastian Urban > Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 10:17:38 +0200 > Cc: 37447@debbugs.gnu.org > > Also, there are "obsolete" functions that are removed after few > versions of Emacs, so why not do the same thing to key bindings? Because they are not "obsolete" by any measure. They are highly popular key bindings that I, FWIW, am using every day. And btw, I can never understand these arguments about changing what Emacs does by default. You can easily rebind the keys yourself, so why force your personal preferences on everyone else? > Keeping old key bindings forever(?), especially when user can change > them, is rather strange It's not strange, it's called stability. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 20 05:17:35 2019 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Sep 2019 09:17:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56772 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBF2l-0004sC-8S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 05:17:35 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-f54.google.com ([209.85.167.54]:33361) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBF2j-0004rv-82 for 37447@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 05:17:33 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-f54.google.com with SMTP id y127so4557146lfc.0 for <37447@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 02:17:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:cc:in-reply-to:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Xbq07zZoqB1CcUwqIe0vVJ1edj1xG8ojjfNuIbZJe2c=; b=Go0qM8Of+J4JtB5kYigQegO67O77V78+GLwJo0OJ7K7sL8QG0UBCoZvVi35GbNj4uR P+nsRvepcPd1l1c1f71/0omBfGxDzxI90eBMTFdffu8LN8+mwWdc8eQbMZxRlXenJHsh ZdZnfZ0qeTs0JYVymYyTFWzu5xiSJvd7iih9tKZjqZAXJ27odw4RBA+AVt4hEOjVFj96 LTP8r63Zj56fXHUbKqpD6gi1R4dltXR6LqFXr2E8bqsE81Uyrtz3DfJLeodkhN2+4pRH 7fcGWZf8sg1eJzIVmvITG5833Ynik9tin0RE+8SL8r8GYU3C9C1LNqRdf+GTbHZERFwU I6pA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:cc:in-reply-to:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Xbq07zZoqB1CcUwqIe0vVJ1edj1xG8ojjfNuIbZJe2c=; b=YHENG4Ie8C/YH5nsO3nZp/xjFdZGS4SWGq0PfrTe4rCGIpI3MYDvlqpD4Uvz65+nV7 59Pw1dvjX/bJurXohSXUqnjOmmfL+DB80N8UG8CxB0ttPPLfyzX4OomaGCzPFZsRKs0A R28ggdJ0lr3Psa4+b2tVxrtvneLfeDK1zMax/SKPBydPann5gFYln8+GRWxeKE2sQBc2 odNgsVlK3Y8q0GtYQAkFVbVdGiulpLXfAbPvoa6jG3+ODmIKbrFC5K3adO8dIRblByop MeicreVAeNdT0cr0yoqoqkE/CbCuBCzMzUGqZBwF79UFDs/vVVoAxX/b+dk27CBbsnHy wRqg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUSx7qGwx0bLjblZEA3e0WSFFjKf5aQl3oBlzDY3MWv+lJmmzyY 6vqEej3/ki4ATqA4nJOBIS1LCd4NT24= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwsgd6xP2vD/Q1QARSx25TDvqE/Z2dIMZ6W1K/WkUg00t6PwiwCcE+MemzfM/x+YAcqJ75ttw== X-Received: by 2002:a19:4bd7:: with SMTP id y206mr8433823lfa.9.1568971046997; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 02:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [89.161.0.90] (ip-89-161-0-90.tel.tkb.net.pl. [89.161.0.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 6sm359777lfa.24.2019.09.20.02.17.25 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 20 Sep 2019 02:17:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Sebastian Urban Subject: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and To: eliz@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <834l17tldj.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <444e25f2-c2ff-02b3-0967-42aa28a0d503@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:17:29 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: 37447@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > (...) They are highly popular key bindings that I, FWIW, am using > every day. Even 'M-' that does something opposite to 'M-d', when and 'C-d' do the same thing? Doesn't that bother you? For me it's inconsistency, but maybe there is a reason for this... > And btw, I can never understand these arguments about changing what > Emacs does by default. You can easily rebind the keys yourself, so > why force your personal preferences on everyone else? If I would want to change 'C-a' to 'C-b' (or 'C-S-' as I tried, but not any more) then you are right, but not in this case. The above example is not a change just because I like it (I don't even use it), but rather spotting inconsistency and pointing it out. As for 'C-' also "no", because I was trying to reuse something that is already there ('M-'). But fine, someone may use 'C-...', so I could leave it alone as well. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 20 05:31:45 2019 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Sep 2019 09:31:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56797 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBFGS-0005HU-TV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 05:31:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44772) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBFGQ-0005HG-SL for 37447@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 05:31:43 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38483) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iBFGL-0001Cs-N7; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 05:31:37 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4062 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iBFGK-0007sQ-T4; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 05:31:37 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:31:43 +0300 Message-Id: <83zhizs48w.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Sebastian Urban In-reply-to: <444e25f2-c2ff-02b3-0967-42aa28a0d503@gmail.com> (message from Sebastian Urban on Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:17:29 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and References: <444e25f2-c2ff-02b3-0967-42aa28a0d503@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: 37447@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Sebastian Urban > Cc: 37447@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:17:29 +0200 > > Even 'M-' that does something opposite to 'M-d', when > and 'C-d' do the same thing? Doesn't that bother you? What does "C-h c M-" display? Does that text answer your questions, when you contrast it with what "C-h c" shows for and C-? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 20 06:32:25 2019 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Sep 2019 10:32:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56859 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBGDB-0006oO-1s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 06:32:25 -0400 Received: from mail-lj1-f173.google.com ([209.85.208.173]:36420) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBGD9-0006o3-AU for 37447@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 06:32:23 -0400 Received: by mail-lj1-f173.google.com with SMTP id v24so6595849ljj.3 for <37447@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 03:32:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:references:subject:in-reply-to:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rLg0xGMDxXrcZtPaqdFhJA0ieZSVR4PJj3ZzGAt5RgM=; b=hSx86MR+U3vfNgSxaq39HZRoWlu/mcoWSfIusZnYj+DiT7xoIrKTWdGb1jxfVW1oFj oe3JcBSnGf1Ntk5aaiJg3PZiVBqz8pwKbvC0wZ6s/GQD1TPNR85mgQvuTdZytcW2t3M9 oLdx6Nvnha/e4iCfbDhJj8ON93SDsLiLsVUOrUVbnHcX+zWmLEGUJbcra1sGUcFGHbs5 O7pWS84OJeyFedprDy9ihZI1C1hFIp7CEQJhJor0K6QqJNGlpvQ7GLTxdQ09gG71oEfS Vt4aKbgIWOz4nAI17S+CpUEs4dsVBVZ6JVjDgRDj4ll+40VLgHtlsS57QMNyQlGFpV0w es1A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:references:subject:in-reply-to:cc:from :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=rLg0xGMDxXrcZtPaqdFhJA0ieZSVR4PJj3ZzGAt5RgM=; b=lX+4nu948YP0O4VhEClhYYCIIq4J/z/FbIVEN1krc/dPJkoSH222RdUgpifBqnaNpT YMNt4NLa4Z5N21Yrwpl1qrQ9E3i80mGNsSnbqLbUbImff9y9uZfbNfb1kEeACpW4pgS0 rOevD+f/cPagwGNAO6OUAzu+aAnzT3yvjN6hdF7/TsayZ5KA0Or0rlZJN4y76Ia6Lwrw mBM6h0Lz+TOYLcIlGvqeY/iL5vNhZlCxev3t1JJVfNeM7KSKaPbO/hbwQJ5UrkJ6DLwv xbqohHodCBpa1W8Vlyb9uZu81YDokdYJNez6DEEyEh/pzHqJf0VKj7frvltacOYxOX4Y njCA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVCeX5y35X+b6nh3hio2KTToAcnWn2xcRJWsruIVPKVRJpNC8UW sE7aqYU63QY1Rx/iF4u59DWyUvqNovA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy1msA8VhqT8CFlAzTiPLRT6WCE70FpnsGahqEIJfqdD1iusaK8uyg5j8AIRwSzsehoaVlAQA== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:808c:: with SMTP id i12mr8771021ljg.78.1568975537085; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 03:32:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [89.161.0.90] (ip-89-161-0-90.tel.tkb.net.pl. [89.161.0.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c10sm396506lfp.65.2019.09.20.03.32.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 20 Sep 2019 03:32:16 -0700 (PDT) To: eliz@gnu.org References: Subject: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and In-Reply-To: <83zhizs48w.fsf@gnu.org> From: Sebastian Urban Message-ID: Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:32:19 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: 37447@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > What does "C-h c M-" display? Does that text answer your > questions, when you contrast it with what "C-h c" shows for > and C-? C-h c M-: M-DEL (translated from ) runs the command backward-kill-word C-h c : (translated from ) runs the command delete-forward-char C-h c C-: runs the command kill-word I'm not sure how this could help me or how I'm suppose to understand this. M- doesn't run command, but is translated to 'M-DEL' that does run the command. M- uses the same translation. Couldn't it be: - runs the command kill-word - M-DEL (translated from ) runs the command backward-kill-word Or couldn't 'C-' run command backward-kill-word directly? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 20 08:46:19 2019 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Sep 2019 12:46:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56930 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBIIh-0003oF-Cd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 08:46:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39874) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBIIe-0003nx-9w for 37447@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 08:46:12 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:50943) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iBIIY-0006Wb-R6; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 08:46:06 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3995 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iBIIY-00032h-7o; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 08:46:06 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 15:46:10 +0300 Message-Id: <83v9tnrv8t.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Sebastian Urban In-reply-to: (message from Sebastian Urban on Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:32:19 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: 37447@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 37447@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Sebastian Urban > Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:32:19 +0200 > > > What does "C-h c M-" display? Does that text answer your > > questions, when you contrast it with what "C-h c" shows for > > and C-? > > C-h c M-: > M-DEL (translated from ) runs the command > backward-kill-word > > C-h c : > (translated from ) runs the command > delete-forward-char > > C-h c C-: > runs the command kill-word > > I'm not sure how this could help me or how I'm suppose to understand > this. The DEL part should be your hint. DEL is a key that deletes _backward_. > M- doesn't run command, but is translated to 'M-DEL' that does > run the command. M- uses the same translation. Couldn't > it be: > - runs the command kill-word > - M-DEL (translated from ) runs the command > backward-kill-word See above. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 20 12:22:38 2019 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Sep 2019 16:22:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58361 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBLg5-00036f-Nj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:22:37 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-f41.google.com ([209.85.167.41]:45023) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBLg3-00036S-85 for 37447@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:22:36 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-f41.google.com with SMTP id q11so5440852lfc.11 for <37447@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 09:22:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=WLl1RFJIpdLTSZCYNfwLHzGqA2rFrMnHwYR5FWVQems=; b=ZsWLHoCvpgtwtRN+UkacXsJn49qltFb6l6U/nIUS5EtaJTJVRJ8lCYLK3vRjjDy4ZI iJgfLrh3nlb6ZY+xdhJ9Mr4DTUEwOo0Fk+pP2+u6JuKHMVNMqyUwdvcwa+Yu82DLdLBW RlEexLPnHlv8ODZjs0kjg7TcxisDZxlAVLiG/228wwxUJPl1hUI57qBG3RtcjnJPeGtW 1MkWxEtA+fGix8/JQKH/gB6kGoqGAGUddZmwNPLfP21NjJe0+s2MbuTdTnl6ziBCayz1 VgclB7G5mN0JrSFyv7wnisw7HaWO4Sfj7XpbQG9HogiFIyagkQM5UQ6G+UC9cYWpEYWQ Z1Ig== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=WLl1RFJIpdLTSZCYNfwLHzGqA2rFrMnHwYR5FWVQems=; b=J4rKm+yo4ItwvjFn/1m4pNrJLkHVJJAj5iscluAjxTH/wY7O2D7s7hD74ka3rtSxMe PH4QmmWTIW9iVCnsxvv8UU+pJhnRk9VuuE14gHWXMnxSzzYSwpvsBGJFe0MOqw9Pkmh9 cKGgXJaSb54vYgVODg8DhR1ptJ92S0H8fzDhG1Rp4zLmvHLdc1MsLD4H1JpGSwemmONP WxwFvjUVHuj0alB45MPEIVo6mlAwifebLqgebAVq5jctPGsevNvgENe8LhiNElKOE1m8 lryI9P87MbtilM7aF2U7PTHlWHU0qPJXFPW1F/6SH6/mN/BHvR358cGkaLNmbVoUJyfQ Wl0A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVwKhhmr4CJGgEegEgf+/XEhcLwH8r0PaRGerG/fICEPxSm0wsH czTlxkBZIeMOPkJPDb6LysneCwF69GU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyIRfbWyjyr6fghpn1rmFiSkqObhddqmPRa1yC6EyVjkBXqOxfrHnxLwhjyTbS4gSCnQaE/sA== X-Received: by 2002:a19:6455:: with SMTP id b21mr9405970lfj.167.1568996549205; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 09:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [89.161.0.90] (ip-89-161-0-90.tel.tkb.net.pl. [89.161.0.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x15sm646639lff.54.2019.09.20.09.22.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 20 Sep 2019 09:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83v9tnrv8t.fsf@gnu.org> From: Sebastian Urban Message-ID: <2de76f3a-50ed-ff96-17c8-db46f7858492@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 18:22:32 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83v9tnrv8t.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: 37447@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > The DEL part should be your hint. DEL is a key that deletes > _backward_. Ok, now I'm confused even more... I know DEL deletes backward, but in the manual it is related to key. Now, I'm writing about "Delete" key (button) that is below "Insert" and next to "End", not about "Backspace" key. So, to write it as simple as possible, on keyboard 'C-d' deletes char forward, so does 'Delete' button. 'M-d' kills word forward, so I'm expecting 'M-Delete' will do the same, but instead it kills backward because it's translated to 'M-DEL'... 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[87.228.242.55]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id v7sm1147944lfd.55.2019.09.21.08.41.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 21 Sep 2019 08:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and To: Juri Linkov , Noam Postavsky References: <83blvhvkw0.fsf@gnu.org> <14e4c460-b349-00f8-1705-81d89ab4930c@gmail.com> <877e64qgby.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <077979fb-c46c-495d-9d91-ed94b619cb25@default> <85o8zgj6bi.fsf@gmail.com> <87h858nddf.fsf@mail.linkov.net> From: Dmitry Gutov Message-ID: Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 18:41:36 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87h858nddf.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: Sebastian Urban , 37447@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) On 20.09.2019 1:13, Juri Linkov wrote: >> FWIW, recent (since around 2007~2010 from what I see on the web) Xorg >> disables C-M- as the kill X server by default. > > I can't confirm since I'm afraid of typing these keys :) I can confirm, and I tried and failed to use this combination to kill Xorg a couple of years ago. Just once :) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 28 20:17:12 2019 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2019 00:17:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51603 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEMtk-00026p-Bu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 20:17:12 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f175.google.com ([209.85.215.175]:43299) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEMti-00021P-Nw for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 20:17:11 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f175.google.com with SMTP id v27so5322027pgk.10 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 17:17:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=K57rXbIQsvvMMrYLB9aNwg4yx9XiCg2VYTui6Koks20=; b=nt2eTS+d569bCaWsJNRSLq53lPupRq2egDbKAOnZ4sXCE0l4MC9q3ZwKHainr94YrO zRQEmeLGqnqwU8gf4L34lWjF7Iah3eMbCiOYSPx7gPKHTeUPYsq1qMy7nQJddrXt+B/b xQjqvqXisyiDuHsdsG4gMJhyYuSINAt4bsap6k66LbD2UUbQgtVJ3z//3w4WhuHrjSG1 WjDszGbT9Vp7cZJP9MNHRIdjxSiL5EevM9KPiTL8ZD7NZ4HSfybGF+0sK2Wtm9iwaVFl Rh3kMfE28VhMsPDTScvi0ASHheKv3EC4QWfMY1G/PLA7ewts1Jgu1WMoJ0cGQObTH2Xu P4Bw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVacp6Xh7UsQPKbYtBwMHXvHGwDvrOiaafsUfyqOghbXa++byOL JOgfGMg2Ki+kGDmUrrnxqC8OWKzKDzSCnoDuzW6jfbyOgSg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz3xD0oXLxPtNJYhUeal8bS7EOznuXJygzJ7676a0Io49vFo6xbMyrms8OWLFuxTUNqoS8mQZcKP4UygrOh48g= X-Received: by 2002:a65:5802:: with SMTP id g2mr10952482pgr.333.1569716224730; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 17:17:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 02:16:53 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: merge 29430 37447 quit Content analysis details: (1.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.215.175 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (stefankangas[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager 2.0 BLANK_SUBJECT Subject is present but empty 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different merge 29430 37447 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 23 09:30:49 2022 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Mar 2022 13:30:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43152 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nX14b-0002W5-Cc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 09:30:49 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:46186) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nX14Z-0002OT-2j; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 09:30:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=lp01BkgnuHNX4d6KbACf2Y0IHnN8TtfaEE/e20po5Ck=; b=rs+QsWSFKFhzaJZeQHReu93VV5 bG+fJY3RD8CCHb/Up0aXDdnn0nHAMUVPTdxM+AyEEpBFzKstxy+Tj1vGwgL8I12AaPAKdyzwkMBuf LjwyIOyiE9lrRl3zlxaBUt1P1tLa8lOIWtHSoW3wdEK+a57ujBP1j4JPqo9vt3oRMH94=; Received: from 109.179.236.69.tmi.telenormobil.no ([109.179.236.69] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nX14Q-00045H-3d; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:30:40 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Noam Postavsky Subject: Re: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and References: Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:30:36 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Noam Postavsky's message of "Fri, 24 Nov 2017 14:28:45 -0500") Message-ID: <87r16s94oz.fsf_-_@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Noam Postavsky writes: > Seems to be on purpose, bindings.el:1236: > > ; ; ; These are dangerous in various situations, > ; ; ; so let's not encourage anyone to use them. > ; ; ; (define-key global-map [C-M-delete] 'backward-kill- [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP 0.0 TVD_RCVD_IP Message was received from an IP address -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: Devon Sean McCullough , 37447@debbugs.gnu.org, 29430@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Noam Postavsky writes: > Seems to be on purpose, bindings.el:1236: > > ;;; These are dangerous in various situations, > ;;; so let's not encourage anyone to use them. > ;;;(define-key global-map [C-M-delete] 'backward-kill-sexp) > ;;;(define-key global-map [C-M-backspace] 'backward-kill-sexp) I've now reinstated the bindings, since X stopped killing itself if you hit those keys decades ago (in all mainstream configurations). The merged bug report discussed moving some of other related keys around, and the conclusions was that we don't want to do that, so I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 23 09:30:56 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Mar 2022 13:30:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43155 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nX14h-0002aD-Pp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 09:30:56 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:46200) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nX14e-0002UK-Rj for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 09:30:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=+kbahzElHfMt4QCgbEhc2hEpSh8HFaJyxVAX4CyaT5w=; b=mzCVRtI4vXEuKgaT9S+Mll2hJY AMEHKtJupItqXIg9omPJjYl93/epQBd4+CdKyyxq2VczuGXtV3DCx/tqwxUsdtbDGx55i3nTDFK0H JVwmdLnUAtWCWxxPHUUpiuMwdKLgT65WXW8yyieKFfuMk8TKKG6591p0uJ8yUcwMKe2s=; Received: from 109.179.236.69.tmi.telenormobil.no ([109.179.236.69] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nX14X-00045O-Ix for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:30:47 +0100 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:30:44 +0100 Message-Id: <87pmmc94or.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #37447 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c6b104fd-d9a8-4178-df8a-08da0cda5c05 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Mar 2022 14:35:21.1233 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: eKAOyldouem1+dM4sW3w3OM/IOXi3Y6PPiTdbip9nuvfsG+dZ43tzt45G2I1zE95rKvThluMhGgpCsIjwJUHog== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB3557 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10295 signatures=694973 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=962 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2203230083 X-Proofpoint-GUID: tXecz_xR7c1Eyl8kLQSlCtzrJrsNVhBC X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: tXecz_xR7c1Eyl8kLQSlCtzrJrsNVhBC X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: Devon Sean McCullough , "37447@debbugs.gnu.org" <37447@debbugs.gnu.org>, "29430@debbugs.gnu.org" <29430@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > ;;; These are dangerous in various situations, > > ;;; so let's not encourage anyone to use them. > > ;;;(define-key global-map [C-M-delete] 'backward-kill-sexp) > > ;;;(define-key global-map [C-M-backspace] 'backward-kill-sexp) >=20 > I've now reinstated the bindings, since X stopped killing itself if you > hit those keys decades ago (in all mainstream configurations). [C-M-delete] is problematic for MS Windows, no? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 23 10:56:19 2022 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Mar 2022 14:56:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45509 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nX2PL-0002tT-0D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 10:56:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42262) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nX2PJ-0002t8-GA; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 10:56:17 -0400 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=37998 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nX2PD-00016C-Qj; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 10:56:11 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=3m0s97VThNK9q0Pu17Z19HEdpPsyCQ2phJ6BnKz6Zvs=; b=qXfutYByPzRj 2Pa9tsB+wPf24/e1rIkCvmNMnVQ7sokWB8+A2pasQu6KR970Jr9KeVSUBCNqf3ZXh09ZOC8BJPMqj KWMm7pqy0CGfT5x18O7LsL8LYtDcgsq2d+ev6ja/cH7f4IvH9xHAt/GBOdp2Hia9jNhEwlAKnMGJj WE05w6AinkNLffXCLS5fkgKFy+O06Ng+EUXsnkm7k+OPDntOVr4UXkPakc0zymXPz8/3+EoUpoaAG Gld5jQhw6VBQXM7AgTi5qcKakXvql+QPzmH8UYg4MUEYZ0sdLpDw50jU6w0egZRI0KB1SFS/7DqKB Gbv4KicszH27SovJdVbOPQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3095 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nX2PD-000386-8E; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 10:56:11 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 16:56:01 +0200 Message-Id: <837d8ken0e.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:35:21 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#29430: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and References: <87r16s94oz.fsf_-_@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 29430@debbugs.gnu.org, Emacs-Hacker2017@jovi.net, 37447@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Resent-From: Drew Adams > Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" > Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org > From: Drew Adams > Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:35:21 +0000 > Accept-Language: en-US > Cc: Devon Sean McCullough , > "37447@debbugs.gnu.org" <37447@debbugs.gnu.org>, > "29430@debbugs.gnu.org" <29430@debbugs.gnu.org> > > > > ;;; These are dangerous in various situations, > > > ;;; so let's not encourage anyone to use them. > > > ;;;(define-key global-map [C-M-delete] 'backward-kill-sexp) > > > ;;;(define-key global-map [C-M-backspace] 'backward-kill-sexp) > > > > I've now reinstated the bindings, since X stopped killing itself if you > > hit those keys decades ago (in all mainstream configurations). > > [C-M-delete] is problematic for MS Windows, no? Problematic in what sense? 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 030058fc-6549-4d48-11ee-08da0d0e9841 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Mar 2022 20:49:16.0513 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 9oAFWvyAkhK8gh/cJ8N2P8QY1aAYtErYAXbMB4ArQFJvX6n0RtqTAv9QHgpqcUHLT50j0c+1g03rAiMKBr+OSg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR10MB2996 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10295 signatures=694973 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=646 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2203230108 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: hjWm0NzN0x7kTJ0TJB6Vl3JoKSqv1BjD X-Proofpoint-GUID: hjWm0NzN0x7kTJ0TJB6Vl3JoKSqv1BjD X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: "larsi@gnus.org" , "29430@debbugs.gnu.org" <29430@debbugs.gnu.org>, "Emacs-Hacker2017@jovi.net" , "37447@debbugs.gnu.org" <37447@debbugs.gnu.org>, "npostavs@users.sourceforge.net" X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > [C-M-delete] is problematic for MS Windows, no? >=20 > Problematic in what sense? By default, at least, it's grabbed by Windows. I suppose you can use `w32-register-hot-key' to wrestle it away from Windows. But that's a pretty important key for Windows, IME. Not an expert. Background (which I'm sure you, at least, are familiar with): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control-Alt-Delete (I use `C-M-backspace' for `backward-kill-sexp'. I use `Ctrl+Alt+Delete' for Windows.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 24 02:44:52 2022 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Mar 2022 06:44:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46659 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nXHDH-0003PA-TU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 02:44:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57288) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nXHD8-0003Oe-C7; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 02:44:42 -0400 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=51026 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nXHD1-0005nt-V9; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 02:44:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=/3iCU8iGrUpkYqSxpI5DqwNRVfi0dq3dp3PHD/nj7zc=; b=fRqa8Bu/0Vq7 EEwMn4/3m/PI5m1Kt76ZxzVpBuQWGOnxgpObv5LB4Ouix40q93Y4D8wWGipSVqJdwvrcnnFNkjEYa Ban7Jemq39RSdclyTbihu2iRXejKN8OlEBgON2B28HQRwsuAQYBuaANUZolw7Y7NHv6thkIgTvHzn JUFWD2E4aGe6egteImuS8x8kK3Mm0vTjKJWTPH4+RwrNELlzUzdjD7Bn7snxmPO+II9tlLxmgE5Yr IxkvrLmOKsflKLF/hMDZiT7QzGKU1nG4E7omCWUNC/qIw8bWpZ/nyiFZlZszqMS8MHFYM8FLsU9qL iNn4cbt738nZxJg4COQEHQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3045 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nXHD1-0001CG-Cn; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 02:44:35 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 08:44:27 +0200 Message-Id: <83zglfdf3o.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 23 Mar 2022 20:49:16 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#29430: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and References: <87r16s94oz.fsf_-_@gnus.org> <837d8ken0e.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 29430@debbugs.gnu.org, Emacs-Hacker2017@jovi.net, 37447@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "larsi@gnus.org" , > "npostavs@users.sourceforge.net" > , > "Emacs-Hacker2017@jovi.net" > , > "37447@debbugs.gnu.org" <37447@debbugs.gnu.org>, > "29430@debbugs.gnu.org" <29430@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 20:49:16 +0000 > > > > [C-M-delete] is problematic for MS Windows, no? > > > > Problematic in what sense? > > By default, at least, it's grabbed by Windows. But that hasn't changed just because Emacs now has a binding to that key, has it? IOW, whatever problems Windows users had or didn't have before the change, they still either have or don't have. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: aa034c6d-c19e-4d77-c175-08da0da947bd X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Mar 2022 15:16:32.9817 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: fKkPupWrOZzJ3dqBL34v6Cj2xcS6FesS7Gu9bPrD+NLNjGD3SBasFDs6sBNrfgzJavSy7UyNlQg1o0WJE/35MA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLAPR10MB4931 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10295 signatures=694973 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=785 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2203240086 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: NZrior6lwCGxlPPihmbL3alERZ6Qq3IM X-Proofpoint-GUID: NZrior6lwCGxlPPihmbL3alERZ6Qq3IM X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: "larsi@gnus.org" , "29430@debbugs.gnu.org" <29430@debbugs.gnu.org>, "Emacs-Hacker2017@jovi.net" , "37447@debbugs.gnu.org" <37447@debbugs.gnu.org>, "npostavs@users.sourceforge.net" X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > > > [C-M-delete] is problematic for MS Windows, no? > > > > > > Problematic in what sense? > > > > By default, at least, it's grabbed by Windows. >=20 > But that hasn't changed just because Emacs now has a binding to that > key, has it? IOW, whatever problems Windows users had or didn't have > before the change, they still either have or don't have. Yes, of course. But without binding it by default users are less likely to suffer the gotcha. Just mentioning that that binding can be a problem for some Windows users. If you feel it's important to bind it by default, so be it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 24 11:32:07 2022 Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Mar 2022 15:32:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49216 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nXPRX-0007NI-6u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:32:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58172) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nXPRS-0007M3-8I; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:32:02 -0400 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=58908 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nXPRM-0003J1-0o; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:31:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=d1VB7X9/DHQNhg05sRZyPSrT6v4ZEhUUbqihKzBbA5k=; b=aMmBqR6UZGKI /34leGICjCJPKtmGsYJDmOQJChW/ioN/OCAhqqf4/8kaC0ivcfHvpAsvHKMrgYcMRbEIHuX1JRL/k Ehib+BG6bbOWiOS41frVmCnxno+PL58s/XnZCi1Rz0kbQwQ7gusZ70NAHbYSclksFk+nxfv8f6Fr0 ZPSlGWdSz0tkukpYxEi2oax0YPR3CepgyvrEA7znZ6DMXdiM7T48Ko2RDus697Tusa1uhKYROrJeZ TTBzzTjBkwSG6xUm3nq6Hw+Qi1EMmIUUZxqK1tFV4/kE2nBDRR+lpmPTr09ZyZ4zNFYC+uDVduUH5 wKdGI4zDp/f/uBmlE7ryVg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1318 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nXPNB-00011E-Ny; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:27:38 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 17:27:30 +0200 Message-Id: <83lewzcqvx.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Thu, 24 Mar 2022 15:16:32 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#29430: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and References: <87r16s94oz.fsf_-_@gnus.org> <837d8ken0e.fsf@gnu.org> <83zglfdf3o.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 29430@debbugs.gnu.org, Emacs-Hacker2017@jovi.net, 37447@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "larsi@gnus.org" , > "npostavs@users.sourceforge.net" > , > "Emacs-Hacker2017@jovi.net" > , > "37447@debbugs.gnu.org" <37447@debbugs.gnu.org>, > "29430@debbugs.gnu.org" <29430@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 15:16:32 +0000 > Accept-Language: en-US > > > > > > [C-M-delete] is problematic for MS Windows, no? > > > > > > > > Problematic in what sense? > > > > > > By default, at least, it's grabbed by Windows. > > > > But that hasn't changed just because Emacs now has a binding to that > > key, has it? IOW, whatever problems Windows users had or didn't have > > before the change, they still either have or don't have. > > Yes, of course. But without binding it by default > users are less likely to suffer the gotcha. How so? The probability of users using the key is independent of whether Emacs does or doesn't define a key binding for it. Besides, who are those Windows users that don't know about Ctrl-Alt-Del sequence, and are likely to use it without understanding what they will get? 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5cad2a74-6e30-449a-da0f-08da0dae1add X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Mar 2022 15:51:05.2095 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: r/ou6JxxOHOPRJCMp9U3ODYsaxRU6xizdj4x7NA2K/AoHYZI7+7knY3QpQVTMoCfy8rCdAhu55y+UfA/xz9qGA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR10MB2508 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10295 signatures=694973 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=675 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2203240088 X-Proofpoint-GUID: 6nXZXp218GVVKOw5rZDHgKBNkLAdTIAQ X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 6nXZXp218GVVKOw5rZDHgKBNkLAdTIAQ X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37447 Cc: "larsi@gnus.org" , "29430@debbugs.gnu.org" <29430@debbugs.gnu.org>, "Emacs-Hacker2017@jovi.net" , "37447@debbugs.gnu.org" <37447@debbugs.gnu.org>, "npostavs@users.sourceforge.net" X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > > > > > [C-M-delete] is problematic for MS Windows, no? > > > > > > > > > > Problematic in what sense? > > > > > > > > By default, at least, it's grabbed by Windows. > > > > > > But that hasn't changed just because Emacs now has a binding to > > > that key, has it? IOW, whatever problems Windows users had or didn't > > > have before the change, they still either have or don't have. > > > > Yes, of course. But without binding it by default > > users are less likely to suffer the gotcha. >=20 > How so? The probability of users using the key is independent of > whether Emacs does or doesn't define a key binding for it. Besides, > who are those Windows users that don't know about Ctrl-Alt-Del > sequence, and are likely to use it without understanding what they > will get? Can we agree to disagree, or must we also disagree about such agreement? Emacs advertising this as a default binding might just incite some Emacs users to try to use it, in Emacs. That's all. Not a big deal. Certainly they'll find out soon enough... From unknown Sun Jun 22 22:41:25 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator