From unknown Wed Jun 25 10:48:45 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#374 <374@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#374 <374@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link Reply-To: bug#374 <374@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:48:45 +0000 retitle 374 Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link reassign 374 emacs submitter 374 "Drew Adams" severity 374 wishlist thanks From drew.adams@oracle.com Fri Jun 6 17:08:21 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Jun 2008 00:08:21 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5708HRP010260 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2008 17:08:19 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K4lyj-0006vI-Hi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:08:17 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K4lyh-0006uy-ST for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:08:17 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=47689 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K4lyh-0006uv-O1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:08:15 -0400 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]:36421) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K4lyh-0007iv-9X for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:08:15 -0400 Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m5708CCw017628 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:08:12 -0500 Received: from acsmt350.oracle.com (acsmt350.oracle.com [141.146.40.150]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m56NZkaM006906 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2008 18:08:12 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt350.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3688145671212797259; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:07:39 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.65.97) by bhmail.oracle.com (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:07:39 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 17:07:42 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcjIMoEkVuq4EGV6RrOqUQ0eWTlQRA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 All Info links respect mouse-1-click-follows-link, except those in the header line. All links appear the same, and they should all act the same. Links in the header line should respect mouse-1-click-follows-link, like all the others. In GNU Emacs 22.2.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2008-03-26 on RELEASE Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4)' From monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Fri Jun 13 19:03:51 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Jun 2008 02:03:51 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5E23jiC030748 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:03:46 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7L7I-00010P-V8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:03:45 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7L7H-000100-8r for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:03:44 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=60595 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7L7H-0000zx-5u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:03:43 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.pppoe.ca ([206.248.154.182]:32717 helo=ironport2-out.teksavvy.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K7L7G-0003yK-O2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:03:42 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArwEAPzDUkjO+KWv/2dsb2JhbACBW6wk X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,642,1204520400"; d="scan'208";a="22508644" Received: from smtp.pppoe.ca (HELO smtp.teksavvy.com) ([65.39.196.238]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 13 Jun 2008 22:03:41 -0400 Received: from pastel.home ([206.248.165.175]) by smtp.teksavvy.com (Internet Mail Server v1.0) with ESMTP id UIR00742; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:03:42 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 5ECED8336; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:03:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Drew Adams Cc: 374@debbugs.gnu.org, Subject: Re: bug#374: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link Message-ID: References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:03:41 -0400 In-Reply-To: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 6 Jun 2008 17:07:42 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 tag 374 +moreinfo thanks > All Info links respect mouse-1-click-follows-link, except those in the header > line. What does this mean, exactly? They do react to a mouse-1 click. So do you mean that they should not react to a mouse-1 click if mouse-1-click-follows-link is nil? If so, what other binding would you expect mouse-1 to trigger when mouse-1-click-follows-link is nil? Stefan From drew.adams@oracle.com Sat Jun 14 01:08:56 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Jun 2008 08:08:56 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5E88qIi024106 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 01:08:54 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7Qoe-0000oR-Dt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 04:08:52 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7Qod-0000o9-AG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 04:08:51 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51778 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7Qod-0000o4-5V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 04:08:51 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:46464) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K7Qod-0004oV-06 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 04:08:51 -0400 Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m5E88e3V003904; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 02:08:40 -0600 Received: from acsmt350.oracle.com (acsmt350.oracle.com [141.146.40.150]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m5E7G6hG023913; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 02:08:39 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt350.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3694253901213430906; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 01:08:26 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.171.3) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 01:08:26 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" Cc: <374@debbugs.gnu.org>, References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#374: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 01:08:30 -0700 Message-ID: <00b501c8cdf5$d5b8d180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcjNxKlv6qmaBhOrSIqE1Gk7caxYuwALmg7A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 > tag 374 +moreinfo > thanks > > > All Info links respect mouse-1-click-follows-link, except > > those in the header line. > > What does this mean, exactly? It means that clicks in the header line links should do what clicks on the non-header line links do: they too should respect the variable's value. > They do react to a mouse-1 click. > So do you mean that they should not react to a mouse-1 click if > mouse-1-click-follows-link is nil? Yes, of course. That's what the variable is for: to turn off link sensitivity to mouse-1 clicks. Otherwise, the default behavior would be the only behavior, and there would be no option. Well, strictly speaking, an option might remain, as a numerical value, but it would be called something like `mouse-click-link-delay', and the doc string would not say "Non-nil means _that_ clicking mouse-1 on a link follows the link." The option is a boolean flag nil/non-nil, whose non-nil value has the secondary effect of specifying a click delay, beyond which the link is not followed. To be more clear, the doc string should perhaps explicitly state that nil means the same as non-nil plus waiting the full delay: "the normal Mouse-1 action (typically set point)." > If so, what other binding would you expect mouse-1 to trigger when > mouse-1-click-follows-link is nil? Whatever mouse-1 does on non-links, which is also whatever mouse-1 does elsewhere (e.g. non-header lines) when the variable is nil. In most cases, it is what `mouse-set-point' does. From monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Sat Jun 14 08:16:41 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Jun 2008 15:16:41 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5EFGbD2000466 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 08:16:39 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7XUa-00048U-JF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:16:36 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7XUY-00047C-Nb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:16:36 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=33115 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7XUY-00046t-JB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:16:34 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.pppoe.ca ([206.248.154.182]:55120 helo=ironport2-out.teksavvy.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K7XUU-0004Tl-H6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:16:31 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhcFAFp9U0jO+KWv/2dsb2JhbACBW6sN X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,644,1204520400"; d="scan'208";a="22519006" Received: from smtp.pppoe.ca (HELO smtp.teksavvy.com) ([65.39.196.238]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 14 Jun 2008 11:16:26 -0400 Received: from pastel.home ([206.248.165.175]) by smtp.teksavvy.com (Internet Mail Server v1.0) with ESMTP id UVE98425; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:16:25 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 9AE188336; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:16:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: "Drew Adams" Cc: <374@debbugs.gnu.org>, Subject: Re: bug#374: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link Message-ID: References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00b501c8cdf5$d5b8d180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:16:25 -0400 In-Reply-To: <00b501c8cdf5$d5b8d180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 14 Jun 2008 01:08:30 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 tag 374 -moreinfo +wontfix thanks > Whatever mouse-1 does on non-links, which is also whatever mouse-1 > does elsewhere (e.g. non-header lines) when the variable is nil. In > most cases, it is what `mouse-set-point' does. But mouse-set-point makes no sense on the header-line: there's no associated buffer position. It's really like the mode-line, where mouse-1-click-follows-link is usually not taken into account either. Stefan From drew.adams@oracle.com Sat Jun 14 09:38:33 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Jun 2008 16:38:33 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5EGcUdw019998 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:38:31 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7Ylp-0004TI-AE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:38:29 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7Ylo-0004Se-GX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:38:28 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=54347 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7Ylo-0004SR-2p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:38:28 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:60193) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K7Yln-0007bZ-Ns for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:38:27 -0400 Received: from agmgw1.us.oracle.com (agmgw1.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.212]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m5EGcD9I017601; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:38:13 -0600 Received: from acsmt350.oracle.com (acsmt350.oracle.com [141.146.40.150]) by agmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m5EGaBNQ007032; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:38:12 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt350.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3693462631213461449; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:37:29 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.171.3) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:37:29 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" Cc: <374@debbugs.gnu.org>, References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><00b501c8cdf5$d5b8d180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#374: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:37:34 -0700 Message-ID: <00bc01c8ce3c$f3079860$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcjOMbQUsCpPS/inSBWkt7fGCqPyRgABHyVA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 > > Whatever mouse-1 does on non-links, which is also whatever mouse-1 > > does elsewhere (e.g. non-header lines) when the variable is nil. In > > most cases, it is what `mouse-set-point' does. > > But mouse-set-point makes no sense on the header-line: there's no > associated buffer position. Wrong. You can click a non-link in the header-line or mode-line to set focus: select its window/buffer. That is a primary use of the normal mouse-1 binding. When mouse-1 follows links, you have to be careful where you click, to do that. The bug is that for these screen areas, mouse-1 follows links regardless of the option value. > It's really like the mode-line, where > mouse-1-click-follows-link is usually not taken into account either. `mouse-1-click-follows-link' should also be taken into account in the mode-line, for the same reason. Same bug or separate bug - take your pick. Prior to the existence of option `mouse-1-click-follows-link', mouse-1 never followed links - anywhere, ever. Users should still be able to obtain that (superior) behavior. With that choice, users are able to click parts of Emacs at nearly any location, to (typically) set focus. IMO, the _default_ behavior of mouse-1 should be to not follow links. Failing that change in default, users should at least have the _option_ to turn off link following by mouse-1 everywhere. mouse-2 already follows links - there is no reason to impose on _all users_ the redundancy of mouse-1 also doing that. You cannot even use 0 as the value of the option in order to turn off link following. That too is a (different) bug. The doc says that if the click time is greater than the option value, then links are not followed: "The absolute numeric value specifices the maximum duration of a "short click" in milliseconds." If 0 is the max duration of a short click, then anything longer than 0 should be treated the same as a long click. Both 0 and nil should turn off link following by mouse-1 - *everywhere*. There is no reason not to provide users with this pre-Emacs 22 behavior as an option. Anything less is a regression. From lennart.borgman@gmail.com Sat Jun 14 10:03:22 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Jun 2008 17:03:22 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5EH31CH025953 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:03:12 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7Z9X-0007RB-Sm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:03:00 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7Z9V-0007QU-S7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:02:58 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=33349 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7Z9V-0007QR-MP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:02:57 -0400 Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.213]:34983) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K7Z9U-0003Tb-U7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:02:57 -0400 Received: from c83-254-145-59.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.59]:61525 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1K7Z9K-0005dt-6V; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:02:46 +0200 Message-ID: <4853F9A4.3040309@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:02:28 +0200 From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Adams , 374@debbugs.gnu.org CC: "'Stefan Monnier'" , bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#374: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><00b501c8cdf5$d5b8d180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00bc01c8ce3c$f3079860$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <00bc01c8ce3c$f3079860$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080614-1, 2008-06-14), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.145.59 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1K7Z9K-0005dt-6V. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1K7Z9K-0005dt-6V e6a8cf5e71b2746093531295fa22d87b X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 Drew Adams wrote: > IMO, the _default_ behavior of mouse-1 should be to not follow links. I disagree, I think it is a good default. The reason is the same as before when we discussed this: Users are accustomed to this from other apps, for example web browsers. However it might be good to only use this for links that have a visual clue in the form of underlining (if default faces are used). From drew.adams@oracle.com Sat Jun 14 10:10:55 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Jun 2008 17:10:55 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5EHAq78029075 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:10:53 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7ZH9-00026A-Gi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:10:51 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7ZH6-00025o-U1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:10:51 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=33060 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7ZH6-00025l-P0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:10:48 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:62055) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K7ZH6-0004j7-91 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:10:48 -0400 Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m5EHAXit029390; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:10:34 -0600 Received: from acsmt350.oracle.com (acsmt350.oracle.com [141.146.40.150]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m5EGwPRB016224; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:10:33 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt351.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3692400971213463376; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:09:36 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.171.3) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:09:36 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)'" , <374@debbugs.gnu.org> Cc: "'Stefan Monnier'" , References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><00b501c8cdf5$d5b8d180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00bc01c8ce3c$f3079860$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4853F9A4.3040309@gmail.com> Subject: RE: bug#374: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:09:42 -0700 Message-ID: <00c401c8ce41$700a04c0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4853F9A4.3040309@gmail.com> Thread-Index: AcjOQItHwrMMV5WCRb68+tWse0XipgAAFQuQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 > > IMO, the _default_ behavior of mouse-1 should be to not > > follow links. > > I disagree, I think it is a good default. Yes, we disagree. Forget that I spoke about the default - let's not open that discussion again. The point here is about users being _able_ to have the traditional (pre-22)behavior, not about setting the traditional behavior as the default. From lennart.borgman@gmail.com Sat Jun 14 10:14:45 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Jun 2008 17:14:45 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5EHEg0t029098 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:14:43 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7ZKr-0003Qi-NC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:14:41 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7ZKp-0003Q8-Gi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:14:40 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42193 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7ZKp-0003Q5-AP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:14:39 -0400 Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.213]:37748) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K7ZKn-0005Fr-Vo for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:14:38 -0400 Received: from c83-254-145-59.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.59]:61973 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1K7ZKd-0002yu-6r; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:14:27 +0200 Message-ID: <4853FC71.9060804@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:14:25 +0200 From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Adams CC: 374@debbugs.gnu.org, "'Stefan Monnier'" , bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#374: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><00b501c8cdf5$d5b8d180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00bc01c8ce3c$f3079860$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4853F9A4.3040309@gmail.com> <00c401c8ce41$700a04c0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <00c401c8ce41$700a04c0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080614-1, 2008-06-14), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.145.59 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1K7ZKd-0002yu-6r. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1K7ZKd-0002yu-6r 9c9b0542e332d080f8156cba830a4da8 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 Drew Adams wrote: >>> IMO, the _default_ behavior of mouse-1 should be to not >>> follow links. >> I disagree, I think it is a good default. > > Yes, we disagree. Forget that I spoke about the default - let's not open that > discussion again. Ok. > The point here is about users being _able_ to have the traditional > (pre-22)behavior, not about setting the traditional behavior as the default. Wouldn't that need be much less if the links where underlined or only underlined links where followed by mouse-1 (as I wrote in the previous comment to your proposal)? From monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Sat Jun 14 10:18:34 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 374) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Jun 2008 17:18:34 +0000 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com (ironport2-out.teksavvy.com [206.248.154.182]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5EHIVWU030281 for <374@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:18:32 -0700 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhcFAKWaU0jO+KWv/2dsb2JhbACBW6sU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,644,1204520400"; d="scan'208";a="22521032" Received: from smtp.pppoe.ca (HELO smtp.teksavvy.com) ([65.39.196.238]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 14 Jun 2008 13:18:25 -0400 Received: from pastel.home ([206.248.165.175]) by smtp.teksavvy.com (Internet Mail Server v1.0) with ESMTP id UXG98424; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:18:24 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 97AF08336; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:18:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: <374@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Re: bug#374: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link Message-ID: References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00b501c8cdf5$d5b8d180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00bc01c8ce3c$f3079860$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:18:24 -0400 In-Reply-To: <00bc01c8ce3c$f3079860$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:37:34 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> > Whatever mouse-1 does on non-links, which is also whatever mouse-1 >> > does elsewhere (e.g. non-header lines) when the variable is nil. In >> > most cases, it is what `mouse-set-point' does. >> But mouse-set-point makes no sense on the header-line: there's no >> associated buffer position. > Wrong. You can click a non-link in the header-line or mode-line to > set focus: select its window/buffer. That is a primary use of the > normal mouse-1 binding. In normal use, there are plenty of other places on the screen where you can click to do that. `mouse-1-click-follows-link' was introduced to resolve conflicts where "clicking elsewhere" is not an option, i.e. because you might either want to follow the link or want to place point within the link's text. > When mouse-1 follows links, you have to be careful where you click, to > do that. The bug is that for these screen areas, mouse-1 follows > links regardless of the option value. That's pretty much "always" been the case: you cannot blindly click (with mouse-1 or something else) on "active" areas on the screen in general. With mouse-1-click-follows-link deactivated, this is less often the case, but it is still the case. > Both 0 and nil should turn off link following by mouse-1 - > *everywhere*. There is no reason not to provide users with this > pre-Emacs 22 behavior as an option. Anything less is a regression. Try Emacs-21 and take a look at its mode-line. You'll see it has mouse-1 on the buffer name active as well. Emacs-22 might be "worse" in this respect but I don't think it's a good idea to force such mouse-1 bindings to be redundant (so they can be disabled with mouse-1-click-follows-link). Stefan From drew.adams@oracle.com Sat Jun 14 10:35:18 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Jun 2008 17:35:18 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5EHZELX002064 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:35:15 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7Zej-0003S3-E6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:35:13 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7Zeh-0003Qk-Q8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:35:13 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42869 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7Zeh-0003Qb-NP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:35:11 -0400 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]:25071) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K7Zeh-00009B-19 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:35:11 -0400 Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.110]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m5EHYpPV019860; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:34:51 -0500 Received: from acsmt351.oracle.com (acsmt351.oracle.com [141.146.40.151]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m5EGuOOM018494; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:34:50 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt351.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3692401371213464871; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:34:31 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.171.3) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:34:31 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)'" Cc: <374@debbugs.gnu.org>, "'Stefan Monnier'" , References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><00b501c8cdf5$d5b8d180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00bc01c8ce3c$f3079860$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4853F9A4.3040309@gmail.com> <00c401c8ce41$700a04c0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4853FC71.9060804@gmail.com> Subject: RE: bug#374: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:34:36 -0700 Message-ID: <00c601c8ce44$eb150360$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4853FC71.9060804@gmail.com> Thread-Index: AcjOQl/FXq9aKxamSDmGNu3YUEs8tQAATmqw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 > > The point here is about users being _able_ to have the traditional > > (pre-22)behavior, not about setting the traditional > > behavior as the default. > > Wouldn't that need be much less if the links where underlined or only > underlined links where followed by mouse-1 (as I wrote in the > previous comment to your proposal)? 1. That is independent. You can make a separate bug or enhancement report, if you like. That is not what this is about. 2. No. The need is to be able to click mouse-1 on a link, regardless of how it is displayed, and not follow the link. That's what `mouse-1-follows-link' is for: to be able to not have mouse-1 follow links. I often want to just click somewhere in a buffer - including its text area, mode-line, and header-line, just to select the buffer. Perhaps that is because I use separate frames a lot. Users are various. The same principle applies to links in the header-line and mode-line that applies to links elsewhere. Just as I want to be able to click anywhere in Dired to select the buffer, so I want to be able to click anywhere in Info to select the buffer. It has nothing to do with link appearance. (It would not help to underline links in Dired.) Quite the contrary: I don't want to have to look carefully to see if I'm clicking on a link, just to select a buffer. I don't want to check whether text is underlined or whatever. From lennart.borgman@gmail.com Sat Jun 14 10:45:14 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Jun 2008 17:45:15 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5EHj9LG004086 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:45:11 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7ZoL-00013b-7y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:45:09 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7ZoI-00013K-SH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:45:08 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46337 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7ZoI-00013H-MJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:45:06 -0400 Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.212]:42982) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K7ZoH-0001dB-Ob for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:45:06 -0400 Received: from c83-254-145-59.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.59]:62243 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1K7Zo8-0006c7-3b; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:44:56 +0200 Message-ID: <48540384.6090107@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:44:36 +0200 From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Adams CC: 374@debbugs.gnu.org, "'Stefan Monnier'" , bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#374: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><00b501c8cdf5$d5b8d180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00bc01c8ce3c$f3079860$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4853F9A4.3040309@gmail.com> <00c401c8ce41$700a04c0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4853FC71.9060804@gmail.com> <00c601c8ce44$eb150360$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <00c601c8ce44$eb150360$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080614-1, 2008-06-14), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.145.59 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1K7Zo8-0006c7-3b. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1K7Zo8-0006c7-3b 94ba9142929f6c1da95e2b6d5582940f X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 Drew Adams wrote: >>> The point here is about users being _able_ to have the traditional >>> (pre-22)behavior, not about setting the traditional >>> behavior as the default. >> Wouldn't that need be much less if the links where underlined or only >> underlined links where followed by mouse-1 (as I wrote in the >> previous comment to your proposal)? > It has nothing to do with link appearance. (It would not help to underline links > in Dired.) Quite the contrary: I don't want to have to look carefully to see if > I'm clicking on a link, just to select a buffer. I don't want to check whether > text is underlined or whatever. Thanks, I see. But I believe many people would think differently since they have learned otherwise from for example web browsers. But with that I do not want to say I am against your proposal for an option. Personally I do not mind. From drew.adams@oracle.com Sat Jun 14 11:19:41 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, MURPHY_SEX_L2,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Jun 2008 18:19:41 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5EIJcs4012802 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:19:39 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7aLh-0007Bp-SQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:19:37 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7aLg-0007BR-Pb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:19:37 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48499 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7aLg-0007BK-HA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:19:36 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:14132) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K7aLg-00077M-8E for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:19:36 -0400 Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m5EIJHTg031424; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:19:17 -0600 Received: from acsmt351.oracle.com (acsmt351.oracle.com [141.146.40.151]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m5EHkuAF005791; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:19:17 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt351.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3692402131213467490; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:18:10 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.171.3) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:18:09 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)'" Cc: <374@debbugs.gnu.org>, "'Stefan Monnier'" , References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><00b501c8cdf5$d5b8d180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00bc01c8ce3c$f3079860$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4853F9A4.3040309@gmail.com> <00c401c8ce41$700a04c0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4853FC71.9060804@gmail.com> <00c601c8ce44$eb150360$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48540384.6090107@gmail.com> Subject: RE: bug#374: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:18:16 -0700 Message-ID: <00cc01c8ce4b$04317bc0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <48540384.6090107@gmail.com> Thread-Index: AcjORm4VdxmpZre+Qby+ZLxrZkWm6wABBpZA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 > >>> The point here is about users being _able_ to have the traditional > >>> (pre-22)behavior, not about setting the traditional > >>> behavior as the default. > >> > >> Wouldn't that need be much less if the links where > >> underlined or only underlined links where followed by > >> mouse-1 (as I wrote in the > >> previous comment to your proposal)? > > > It has nothing to do with link appearance. (It would not > > help to underline links in Dired.) Quite the contrary: > > I don't want to have to look carefully to see if > > I'm clicking on a link, just to select a buffer. I don't > > want to check whether text is underlined or whatever. > > Thanks, I see. But I believe many people would think > differently since they have learned otherwise from for > example web browsers. And that's precisely why we let them use mouse-1 to follow links. I am not proposing to take that away from anyone who expects or wants it. > But with that I do not want to say I am against your proposal for an > option. Personally I do not mind. Good. I can't believe anyone would mind. Why prevent some users from not following any links with mouse-1? From drew.adams@oracle.com Sat Jun 14 11:21:27 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 374) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Jun 2008 18:21:27 +0000 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com (rgminet01.oracle.com [148.87.113.118]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5EILOV9013964 for <374@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:21:25 -0700 Received: from agmgw1.us.oracle.com (agmgw1.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.212]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m5EILH82032530; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:21:17 -0600 Received: from acsmt350.oracle.com (acsmt350.oracle.com [141.146.40.150]) by agmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m5EHmvsF011626; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:21:17 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt351.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3694287171213467668; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:21:08 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.171.3) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:21:08 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , <374@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><00b501c8cdf5$d5b8d180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><00bc01c8ce3c$f3079860$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#374: Info header line does not respectmouse-1-click-follows-link Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:21:14 -0700 Message-ID: <00cd01c8ce4b$6e835930$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcjORB2dunh+NYsyS2eFWIW5obTq9QAAQi6Q X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE > > Wrong. You can click a non-link in the header-line or mode-line to > > set focus: select its window/buffer. That is a primary use of the > > normal mouse-1 binding. > > In normal use, there are plenty of other places on the screen > where you can click to do that. Please don't tell me where I can click. Just let me customize an option to turn off mouse-1 following links - everywhere. That should be what `mouse-1-click-follows-link' is for. If you want to create another option for that, fine. It is a regression to not have this possibility at all. > `mouse-1-click-follows-link' was > introduced to resolve conflicts where "clicking elsewhere" is not an option, > i.e. because you might either want to follow the link or want to place > point within the link's text. No. The use of a numeric delay in `mouse-1-click-follows-link' was added for that. The option itself was introduced to allow mouse-1 to follow links for some users but not impose that behavior on all users. There is absolutely no reason not to let users turn off mouse-1 following links everywhere. Please don't tell us that there is plenty of room to click in the back of the bus. Why would you prevent someone from choosing to not follow links with mouse-1 anywhere? Even in a context where one cannot set point, I would not want mouse-1 to follow a link. I might have accidentally clicked that link - I still don't want to follow it. If nothing else is appropriate, then a nil or 0 option value should make mouse-1 just do nothing for a link: `ignore'. How would that be objectionable? It would not prevent anyone from using mouse-1 to follow links. The 0 and nil values currently don't serve anyone. And neither follows what the doc string suggests. > > Both 0 and nil should turn off link following by mouse-1 - > > *everywhere*. There is no reason not to provide users with this > > pre-Emacs 22 behavior as an option. Anything less is a regression. > > Try Emacs-21 and take a look at its mode-line. You'll see it has > mouse-1 on the buffer name active as well. Yes, it was a bug then, as well, but it could be argued that that is actually a button, not a link. I never used Emacs 21, so I never filed any bugs against it. I prefer Emacs 20 to Emacs 21 (by far), at least on Windows. Personally, I would like to see an option to prevent mouse-1 from activating buttons, as well. Whatever the action is, if mouse-2 already does it, then users should be able to choose to use _only_ mouse-2 for that. Emacs is now entre deux chaises wrt mouse-1 and mouse-2. We have tried to let mouse-1 do what mouse-2 does wrt links and buttons because that is what newbies expect (yes, and what some oldies prefer). But we should not prohibit other Emacs users from _not_ using mouse-1 that way. Anywhere. Users should be able to easily get rid of this redundancy, if they wish. > Emacs-22 might be "worse" in this respect Yes, it is much worse. What was true only for buttons is now true for links also. > but I don't think it's a good idea to force such mouse-1 > bindings to be redundant (so they can be disabled with > mouse-1-click-follows-link). I am not forcing anything. I want you to be able to use mouse-1 to follow links. You are forcing me to follow links with mouse-1 (in some situations). It is you that is arguing to force redundancy on users (between mouse-1 and mouse-2, for both links and buttons). Give users the choice; that's all I'm asking. From lennart.borgman@gmail.com Sat Jun 14 11:39:45 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, MURPHY_SEX_L2,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Jun 2008 18:39:45 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5EIdgk8017547 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:39:43 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7af7-0007wL-Ly for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:39:41 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7af6-0007w9-Dh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:39:41 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42033 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7af6-0007w6-Ay for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:39:40 -0400 Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.213]:35873) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K7af5-00022d-RT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:39:40 -0400 Received: from c83-254-145-59.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.59]:62517 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1K7aew-0003xW-6t; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:39:30 +0200 Message-ID: <4854105F.5090703@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:39:27 +0200 From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Adams CC: 374@debbugs.gnu.org, "'Stefan Monnier'" , bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#374: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><00b501c8cdf5$d5b8d180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00bc01c8ce3c$f3079860$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4853F9A4.3040309@gmail.com> <00c401c8ce41$700a04c0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4853FC71.9060804@gmail.com> <00c601c8ce44$eb150360$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48540384.6090107@gmail.com> <00cc01c8ce4b$04317bc0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <00cc01c8ce4b$04317bc0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080614-1, 2008-06-14), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.145.59 X-ACL-Warn: Too high rate of unknown addresses received from you X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1K7aew-0003xW-6t. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1K7aew-0003xW-6t 1c3f7a2b154d56afe47acf9ecde1a1a9 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 Drew Adams wrote: >>>>> The point here is about users being _able_ to have the traditional >>>>> (pre-22)behavior, not about setting the traditional >>>>> behavior as the default. >>>> Wouldn't that need be much less if the links where >>>> underlined or only underlined links where followed by >>>> mouse-1 (as I wrote in the >>>> previous comment to your proposal)? >>> It has nothing to do with link appearance. (It would not >>> help to underline links in Dired.) Quite the contrary: >>> I don't want to have to look carefully to see if >>> I'm clicking on a link, just to select a buffer. I don't >>> want to check whether text is underlined or whatever. >> Thanks, I see. But I believe many people would think >> differently since they have learned otherwise from for >> example web browsers. > > And that's precisely why we let them use mouse-1 to follow links. I am not > proposing to take that away from anyone who expects or wants it. I am sure you not. I just thought this was a good time to ask for consistency regarding underline. (I think telling about it in a context like this may be better than making it a separate proposal, but I am not sure.) From drew.adams@oracle.com Sat Jun 14 13:04:41 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, MURPHY_SEX_L2,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Jun 2008 20:04:41 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5EK4bdq005848 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:04:39 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7bzJ-000382-FV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:04:37 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7bzH-00037p-JB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:04:37 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=52426 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7bzH-00037m-GI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:04:35 -0400 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]:40249) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K7bzH-0005Hb-6a for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:04:35 -0400 Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.110]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m5EK4MTW027973; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:04:22 -0500 Received: from acsmt350.oracle.com (acsmt350.oracle.com [141.146.40.150]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m5EJLtMs017662; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:04:21 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt350.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3693464361213473811; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:03:31 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.171.3) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:03:31 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)'" Cc: <374@debbugs.gnu.org>, "'Stefan Monnier'" , References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><00b501c8cdf5$d5b8d180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00bc01c8ce3c$f3079860$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4853F9A4.3040309@gmail.com> <00c401c8ce41$700a04c0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4853FC71.9060804@gmail.com> <00c601c8ce44$eb150360$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48540384.6090107@gmail.com> <00cc01c8ce4b$04317bc0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4854105F.5090703@gmail.com> Subject: RE: bug#374: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:03:37 -0700 Message-ID: <00d001c8ce59$bc3b1920$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4854105F.5090703@gmail.com> Thread-Index: AcjOTiaTM+U0e9/VQpqb0NO/AYZpqAACRThA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 > > And that's precisely why we let them use mouse-1 to follow > > links. I am not proposing to take that away from anyone > > who expects or wants it. > > I am sure you not. I just thought this was a good time to ask for > consistency regarding underline. I object to that, and not just in this case. Nothing prevents you from starting a new thread or filing a new bug, and even using "[was: Info header line does not...]". It hasn't happened yet in this case, but injecting a new topic can cause threads to diverge and the original topic to become lost. It happens quite often in emacs-devel. Everyone has done it, including me. Very few people ever intentionally hijack a thread, but it happens quite often unintentionally. The risk is always there, but it is strongest when the new topic is more controversial than the original - people jump in to argue about the sidetrack. A casual side proposal about key bindings or colors is almost sure to set some people off, and can easily lead a thread astray. In this case, I myself might want to contribute to a discussion about link underlining (haven't thought about it), but I'm not going to do that within this thread. > (I think telling about it in a context like this may be better > than making it a separate proposal, but I am not sure.) Absolutely not. Yes, context helps. But nothing prevents you from copying some of the context to a new thread. You can even keep the original subject with "was", for reference. It's hard enough to keep people focused on rational argument, without adding forks in the path. From lennart.borgman@gmail.com Sat Jun 14 13:34:55 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, MURPHY_SEX_L2,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Jun 2008 20:34:55 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m5EKYppu013687 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:34:53 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7cSZ-0007OF-Cu for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:34:51 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7cSY-0007Np-1v for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:34:51 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=36553 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7cSX-0007Ni-OT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:34:49 -0400 Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.212]:44428) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K7cSX-00023N-IH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:34:49 -0400 Received: from c83-254-145-59.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.59]:61103 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1K7cSO-0004S0-3H; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 22:34:40 +0200 Message-ID: <48542B5D.6080705@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 22:34:37 +0200 From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Adams CC: 374@debbugs.gnu.org, "'Stefan Monnier'" , bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#374: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><00b501c8cdf5$d5b8d180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00bc01c8ce3c$f3079860$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4853F9A4.3040309@gmail.com> <00c401c8ce41$700a04c0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4853FC71.9060804@gmail.com> <00c601c8ce44$eb150360$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48540384.6090107@gmail.com> <00cc01c8ce4b$04317bc0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <4854105F.5090703@gmail.com> <00d001c8ce59$bc3b1920$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <00d001c8ce59$bc3b1920$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080614-1, 2008-06-14), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.145.59 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1K7cSO-0004S0-3H. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1K7cSO-0004S0-3H 4cd0e89521668b301e482f3c7cf7e914 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 Drew Adams wrote: >>> And that's precisely why we let them use mouse-1 to follow >>> links. I am not proposing to take that away from anyone >>> who expects or wants it. >> I am sure you not. I just thought this was a good time to ask for >> consistency regarding underline. > > I object to that, and not just in this case. Nothing prevents you from starting > a new thread or filing a new bug, and even using "[was: Info header line does > not...]". It is a good idea. > It hasn't happened yet in this case, but injecting a new topic can cause threads > to diverge and the original topic to become lost. It happens quite often in > emacs-devel. Everyone has done it, including me. Very few people ever > intentionally hijack a thread, but it happens quite often unintentionally. > > The risk is always there, but it is strongest when the new topic is more > controversial than the original - people jump in to argue about the sidetrack. You have good points, but I think it unfortunately always is a difficult choice. Perhaps your own reply also illustrates that. From cyd@stupidchicken.com Mon Jul 28 07:28:38 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_PBL, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL,RDNS_DYNAMIC,VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=no version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 28 Jul 2008 14:28:38 +0000 Received: from furry (c-24-63-201-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.63.201.57]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m6SESVrO015524 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 07:28:32 -0700 Received: by furry (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7571FC05C; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:28:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Tag wishlist items Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:28:26 -0400 Message-ID: <87y73m9j79.fsf@stupidchicken.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii tags 285 moreinfo severity 374 wishlist severity 397 wishlist severity 400 wishlist severity 456 wishlist close 478 close 502 severity 575 wishlist close 611 close 619 From rgm@gnu.org Sat Dec 13 15:15:53 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.0000 Tokens: new, 15; hammy, 34; neutral, 41; spammy, 0. spammytokens: hammytokens:0.000-+--H*UA:Emacs, 0.000-+--H*r:140.186.70, 0.000-+--H*r:ip*140.186.70.10, 0.000-+--H*r:sk:fencepo, 0.000-+--H*MI:fencepost X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,MISSING_SUBJECT, NOSUBJECT,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,X_DEBBUGS_NO_ACK autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 13 Dec 2008 23:15:53 +0000 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mBDNFoPQ001040 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:15:51 -0800 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LBdhV-0005Fx-RK; Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:15:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <18756.16893.793629.635568@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:15:09 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: control X-Attribution: GM X-Mailer: VM (www.wonderworks.com/vm), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs) X-Hue: red X-Ran: /yt^$j`@{.G1:hFy"jtZ^l{#7uzj1BN-2FA!F>y;Qo8b/~B.$ZUDI=$Vi##IjoT`R{v#$e X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes forcemerge 374 1565 stop sigh From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 08 04:33:40 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2012 08:33:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55990 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Snmw0-0007qF-MZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 04:33:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35779) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Snmvz-0007q8-Cr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 04:33:39 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Snmqz-0002tl-MK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 04:28:30 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:45873) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Snmqz-0002tg-If for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 04:28:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41242) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Snmqy-0006B8-0X for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 04:28:29 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Snmqw-0002t4-AN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 04:28:27 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:53244) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Snmqw-0002sx-7S for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 04:28:26 -0400 Received: from cm162.gamma80.maxonline.com.sg ([202.156.80.162]:54738 helo=ulysses) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Snmqt-0006pu-QZ; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 04:28:24 -0400 From: Chong Yidong To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#374: Info header line does not respect mouse-1-click-follows-link References: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 16:28:16 +0800 In-Reply-To: <000801c8c832$81861ff0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 6 Jun 2008 17:07:42 -0700") Message-ID: <87zk7a1wtb.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, 374@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) "Drew Adams" writes: > All Info links respect mouse-1-click-follows-link, except those in the > header line. Fixed in trunk. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 08 04:33:51 2012 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2012 08:33:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55993 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SnmwA-0007qa-TN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 04:33:51 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:60924) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Snmw8-0007qS-Al for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 04:33:49 -0400 Received: from cm162.gamma80.maxonline.com.sg ([202.156.80.162]:54739 helo=ulysses) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Snmr9-0006tJ-4Y for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 04:28:39 -0400 From: Chong Yidong To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: close 374 Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 16:28:34 +0800 Message-ID: <871ukmac7h.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) close 374 thanks From unknown Wed Jun 25 10:48:45 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. 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