GNU bug report logs - #37130
27.0.50; Tar mode should use the ISO8601 format to display the timestamps (or support TIME_STYLE or locales)

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Vincent Lefevre <vincent <at> vinc17.net>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 27.0.50; Tar mode should use the ISO8601 format to display the
 timestamps (or support TIME_STYLE or locales)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 16:31:47 +0200

When tar-mode-show-date is set to t (to get the timestamps), the
Tar mode displays them in a non-standard format. It should use
the ISO8601 format (this is what GNU tar does). Other formats
(e.g. one corresponding to the locales) could be used via an option;
in particular, the support of the TIME_STYLE environment variable
(see coreutils manual) would be a good idea.


In GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.10)
 of 2019-08-20 built on cventin
Repository revision: 50dc4ca8d02a466a7236765edf83ae7cfb02d74c
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12004000
System Description: Debian GNU/Linux bullseye/sid

Recent messages:
Loading /home/vlefevre/share/emacs/site-lisp/mutteditor.el (source)...done
Loading time...done
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Making completion list...

Configured using:
 'configure --prefix=/usr/local/emacs-trunk'

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND GPM DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY INOTIFY
ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM THREADS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2
GMP

Important settings:
  value of $LC_COLLATE: POSIX
  value of $LC_CTYPE: en_US.UTF-8
  value of $LC_TIME: en_DK
  value of $LANG: POSIX
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Lisp Interaction

Minor modes in effect:
  display-time-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  eldoc-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr warnings emacsbug message rmc puny dired
dired-loaddefs format-spec rfc822 mml easymenu mml-sec password-cache
epa derived epg epg-config gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs
text-property-search time-date subr-x seq byte-opt gv bytecomp
byte-compile cconv mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231
mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums
mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils time cus-start cus-load paren cc-styles
cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs edmacro kmacro cl-loaddefs cl-lib
tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type
mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image
regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mode
lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch timer
select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core
term/tty-colors frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang
vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932
hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic
chinese composite charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook
help simple abbrev obarray minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs
button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5
base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable
backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting
system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x
multi-tty make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 65558 6406)
 (symbols 48 8743 1)
 (strings 32 20763 1960)
 (string-bytes 1 701429)
 (vectors 16 11324)
 (vector-slots 8 144338 10554)
 (floats 8 24 35)
 (intervals 56 228 0)
 (buffers 992 13))

Message #8 received at 37130 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> mouse.gnus.org>
To: Vincent Lefevre <vincent <at> vinc17.net>
Cc: 37130 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#37130: 27.0.50; Tar mode should use the ISO8601 format to
 display the timestamps (or support TIME_STYLE or locales)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 05:46:26 +0200

Vincent Lefevre <vincent <at> vinc17.net> writes:

> When tar-mode-show-date is set to t (to get the timestamps), the
> Tar mode displays them in a non-standard format. It should use
> the ISO8601 format (this is what GNU tar does).

I think it makes sense to follow GNU tar's lead here, so I've now done
this on the trunk.

> Other formats (e.g. one corresponding to the locales) could be used
> via an option; in particular, the support of the TIME_STYLE
> environment variable (see coreutils manual) would be a good idea.

I think that sounds like overkill for tar-mode, but perhaps there should
be a general function somewhere for using TIME_STYLE throughout Emacs
whenever time/dates are displayed.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #15 received at 37130 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> mouse.gnus.org>
Cc: 37130 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, vincent <at> vinc17.net
Subject: Re: bug#37130: 27.0.50;
 Tar mode should use the ISO8601 format to display the timestamps (or
 support TIME_STYLE or locales)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 11:36:20 +0300

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> mouse.gnus.org>
> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 05:46:26 +0200
> Cc: 37130 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Vincent Lefevre <vincent <at> vinc17.net> writes:
> 
> > When tar-mode-show-date is set to t (to get the timestamps), the
> > Tar mode displays them in a non-standard format. It should use
> > the ISO8601 format (this is what GNU tar does).
> 
> I think it makes sense to follow GNU tar's lead here, so I've now done
> this on the trunk.

Yuck! what an ugly format!

> > Other formats (e.g. one corresponding to the locales) could be used
> > via an option; in particular, the support of the TIME_STYLE
> > environment variable (see coreutils manual) would be a good idea.
> 
> I think that sounds like overkill for tar-mode, but perhaps there should
> be a general function somewhere for using TIME_STYLE throughout Emacs
> whenever time/dates are displayed.

I think we should just make the format used for the time stamp a user
option, that would be a good-enough solution.  It will also provide a
"fire escape" to get the old behavior for those, like me, who might
dislike the ISO8601 format.  We must provide such
backward-compatibility options anyway when we change behavior in
incompatible ways.

Finally, this change should be in NEWS (including the to-be-added
backward-compatibility shim).

Thanks.

Message #18 received at 37130 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 37130 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, vincent <at> vinc17.net
Subject: Re: bug#37130: 27.0.50; Tar mode should use the ISO8601 format to
 display the timestamps (or support TIME_STYLE or locales)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 08:03:21 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> I think it makes sense to follow GNU tar's lead here, so I've now done
>> this on the trunk.
>
> Yuck! what an ugly format!

Yes, I didn't check what GNU tar really did, so I just put in ISO8601.
I've now checked and replicated the format, which looks nicer.

>> > Other formats (e.g. one corresponding to the locales) could be used
>> > via an option; in particular, the support of the TIME_STYLE
>> > environment variable (see coreutils manual) would be a good idea.
>> 
>> I think that sounds like overkill for tar-mode, but perhaps there should
>> be a general function somewhere for using TIME_STYLE throughout Emacs
>> whenever time/dates are displayed.
>
> I think we should just make the format used for the time stamp a user
> option, that would be a good-enough solution.  It will also provide a
> "fire escape" to get the old behavior for those, like me, who might
> dislike the ISO8601 format.  We must provide such
> backward-compatibility options anyway when we change behavior in
> incompatible ways.

We don't, in general, add such options unless we think it's going to be
used a lot.  For tar mode, my feeling is that nobody will ever care
enough to bother to customise it.

> Finally, this change should be in NEWS (including the to-be-added
> backward-compatibility shim).

Or even notice it, which is why I didn't mention it in NEWS.  It seem
like a not particularly NEWS-worthy item to me.

If you think this really warrants a user customisation and a NEWS item,
I'd rather just revert the change and mark this bug as a WONTFIX,
because it doesn't seem like that to me.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #21 received at 37130 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 37130 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, vincent <at> vinc17.net
Subject: Re: bug#37130: 27.0.50; Tar mode should use the ISO8601 format to
 display the timestamps (or support TIME_STYLE or locales)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 10:41:14 +0300

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
> Cc: 37130 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  vincent <at> vinc17.net
> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 08:03:21 +0200
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> I think it makes sense to follow GNU tar's lead here, so I've now done
> >> this on the trunk.
> >
> > Yuck! what an ugly format!
> 
> Yes, I didn't check what GNU tar really did, so I just put in ISO8601.
> I've now checked and replicated the format, which looks nicer.

Yes, much nicer, thanks.

> > Finally, this change should be in NEWS (including the to-be-added
> > backward-compatibility shim).
> 
> Or even notice it, which is why I didn't mention it in NEWS.  It seem
> like a not particularly NEWS-worthy item to me.

Maybe not with the change as it is now.  It was a big change
originally.

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