From unknown Sun Jul 27 03:19:47 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#36729 <36729@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#36729 <36729@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing Reply-To: bug#36729 <36729@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2025 10:19:47 +0000 retitle 36729 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing reassign 36729 emacs submitter 36729 Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd severity 36729 minor tag 36729 patch wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 19 06:40:26 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2019 10:40:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55186 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoQJO-0008Oy-CF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 06:40:26 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:45260) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoQJL-0008Op-UK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 06:40:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56365) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoQJL-0004ey-2y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 06:40:23 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hoQJK-0001It-6m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 06:40:23 -0400 Received: from mail1427c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.27]:50748 helo=mail118c50.megamailservers.eu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hoQJJ-00013l-La for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 06:40:22 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1563531360; bh=otBZVMqdxrQCT/4RZwmNqldwLRgBIcpPaS74ue3tSzI=; h=From:Subject:Date:To:From; b=azlmKa4OlA2roC6aSZBvB8It0yGt/nRdTWjWlRH+UI0BnZyL9S4sk1gyUgQ2wZakm vReZAmWg8Js3LfyBC2GOSrhy8gmBNHWqARrPtAEjj+rQlhMjjaEXJlvfOFrZYdkXHr qLo3zty5AGmQ1AClln5fYFGljKOC4tSar7/BSXCE= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from [192.168.1.64] (c-e636e253.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.226.54.230]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail118c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id x6JAFwgm020823 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 10:16:00 +0000 From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing Message-Id: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 12:15:58 +0200 To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A0B0207.5D319860.0028, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=JLcVTfCb c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=M+GU/qJco4WXjv8D6jB2IA==:117 a=M+GU/qJco4WXjv8D6jB2IA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=R_EWXV07Wn8IXZY6tbkA:9 a=EIXP9NhaGhpXT_ED:21 a=q1kj-DmYJFtSbG6p:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x (no timestamps) [generic] X-Received-From: 91.136.14.27 X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) The first line of a directory listing reads total used in directory 71752 available 65.2 GiB where it is a mystery what the first number represents. Often it is = 512-byte blocks, which is confusing and not very useful, and cannot = easily be compared with the 'available' number (which is crystal clear). It has always been thus, but previously the 'available' number was = itself somewhat obscure so the first number didn't stand out. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 19 08:16:20 2019 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2019 12:16:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55300 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoRo9-0005uM-Go for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 08:16:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35627) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoRo5-0005nT-Ux for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 08:16:14 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57364) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hoRo0-000708-Oc; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 08:16:08 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3930 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hoRo0-0006mL-4e; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 08:16:08 -0400 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:16:02 +0300 Message-Id: <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-reply-to: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Fri, 19 Jul 2019 12:15:58 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd > Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 12:15:58 +0200 > > The first line of a directory listing reads > > total used in directory 71752 available 65.2 GiB > > where it is a mystery what the first number represents. Often it is 512-byte blocks, which is confusing and not very useful, and cannot easily be compared with the 'available' number (which is crystal clear). Feel free to suggest a clarification in the doc string of 'dired'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 19 09:28:39 2019 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2019 13:28:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55393 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoSwB-0000U0-8c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:28:39 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:37829) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoSw6-0000Tk-4i for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:28:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1563542896; bh=u6AsWpYQGEwDmTdTXmFrHunB3RFoQXjAI8NAnt+o1BE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=SKTtlIdOhJh/mT2cNvaVtqF7vH699gPalXWI/FdvmUlaEIFe+U8xgpO4APtfqW1VQ YsOLaGhmypO9eptcrfklxL3VH3DQWSZOfT1C/3jL7tTM9L+S7zLSlyKO13QKt6IxyQ p5HM/fREIbbPhMBtwQ2mmn1NCdMyhLqpL6Q7Nyvs= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from strobe-lfs84 ([178.6.96.182]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MCbEp-1hfybb16fb-009jJy; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:28:16 +0200 From: Stephen Berman To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:28:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:16:02 +0300") Message-ID: <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:5kbTUpwaYLSuHgdiWD82bHSf2tW4MGH343oDYm+31o/gKNaJM3W DORh7OlN95B2J3H9T/mV9v0bhzRCj9OnkRKBEsdvLj+rOs8Sy3Emtv5HnYlYGuURRmUxgxs V7U4dQzydGRElu7+ToRmC551ZpjSH+oeusWFPsyXbqoZ9nrZ1VbGr8fi+ASfm3N2qrM4NhO r1Qamdf4swscLwJtmZWgA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:ttDhJZVg7KE=:3fTlutXgH/M4Yt/Haah45T rrjwuaep347bFFmZkDECIYFcmpEJT57gBW2Vi2sgM1A06BkXwwWDvyMPtaQnvZ2ZDbE0g4NbM +899SNx0rHRu93WQLCWPkl09FxNEjLinqp+RNQ7gxA7J5bpqMs3xidSVhrVNs0sxWI8ixGOM8 viEcleXlaKQfmwWPdr5TfyhsMzoFxW/juJD+gP0B+ko0g6d2AVoM6oWfHYilJwMtHCR5hnblO nvncCGrgWCVx/VEE/7rXxd+6VIGHgt207qa0BdtSwF4LVIZ2HBMv5ASsY+w0cFRVHDChMd9M/ f184r0D0L7KjgKfFcp+AOle/zGDeJTX6HaSxTFGdBK+0d0OvoNBNBzXemStmWkbc76mscHB54 dDiSzeB81EQdWNH0RwI0fW2KQzz3nw2m5nH0c8iq3J+QANtuT4F1M1LG+0428//OyrZ8L3Pvn C5dWhVuz8MslEWwBgo8f510hM8pydxVTDcPHsguTsdnxsw7RZPtaXZdG1J7kXzUPihCINa3En W+iSkIXFkfDaZ8VTwDgQRxTwibiQPAr+P/vR+a3G9p/rXZqGan1I8BXdc2KqLv+01gWqjUBT6 levkTxsgq1e/0VeiCVifnhS2AuBpIJQ3SWD2gL8bwcUu14zlIPoSegjVty15+K/853Wu2xAEf cwnA0WugVfU/B8QwAF/K7m1Axw5vNw0+DlUTFOi8uwIioKFGxEzZtCYD82F521SBwBh52At/C /PQPJbYVt3Mm7Z9bvlTMMEn2sd96KYCss4CnU7avER+zs5ZFVs+7gSlQ42VHnNURVOW/ehnMY Fx3bRvxFKHnEvCrkPli9XzmAMB28NKHGwNy/1rBICP91IkaH3t3uyE05zXeR5BbfiJo+FgSOR f72jbHrL/q6FPzUJEMJ2QzuTiTemkSHoLaYKcsjg3Uf7NqjXGXq8cWnMJQl/jsNzjkTnydVyU jdYJoDbjHLtdnP//y82wgC9qwsussUPmh0M2eYVIz2vR0lvbbBNQKDu2dJzub4Wvt45MhxLN9 oPH2+gcUWKlCNFZoBRxcbmRH+UsKPsDQldBYpEw1ECN4NCqm2SsqiEenZ/wNgAA9xVYJIfusi M4n3IQwBlV41Xi6aXUu/0iZYSQSuq7z3j07 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:16:02 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd >> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 12:15:58 +0200 >>=20 >> The first line of a directory listing reads >>=20 >> total used in directory 71752 available 65.2 GiB >>=20 >> where it is a mystery what the first number represents. Often it is 512-= byte >> blocks, which is confusing and not very useful, and cannot easily be >> compared with the 'available' number (which is crystal clear). > > Feel free to suggest a clarification in the doc string of 'dired'. An alternative is to do for "total used" what was done for "available". On systems that use `ls' (at least the GNU version), users can do that by setting the environment variable BLOCK_SIZE, but since the change to the display of "available" was unconditional (if I'm not mistaken), we could do the same for the display of "total used", e.g. as in the below patch. (But since this won't work on systems that don't use GNU `ls', either another solution just for them or a different general one would be needed.) Steve Berman diff --git a/lisp/dired.el b/lisp/dired.el index c455a5cde4..8a94080538 100644 --- a/lisp/dired.el +++ b/lisp/dired.el @@ -1271,7 +1271,9 @@ dired-insert-directory If HDR is non-nil, insert a header line with the directory name." (let ((opoint (point)) (process-environment (copy-sequence process-environment)) + (block-size (getenv "BLOCK_SIZE")) end) + (setenv "BLOCK_SIZE" "si") (if (and ;; Don't try to invoke `ls' if we are on DOS/Windows where ;; ls-lisp emulation is used, except if they want to use `ls' @@ -1385,7 +1387,10 @@ dired-insert-directory (insert " wildcard " (or (cdr-safe (insert-directory-wildcard-in-dir-p= dir)) (file-name-nondirectory dir)) "\n"))) - (dired-insert-set-properties content-point (point))))) + (dired-insert-set-properties content-point (point))) + (if block-size + (setenv "BLOCK_SIZE" block-size) + (setenv-internal process-environment "BLOCK_SIZE" nil t)))) =20 (defun dired-insert-set-properties (beg end) "Add various text properties to the lines in the region." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 19 11:19:15 2019 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2019 15:19:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56452 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoUfC-0005kx-Np for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 11:19:15 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:48244) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoUfA-0005kh-Jc for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 11:19:13 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6JF9L7E108628; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:19:00 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=yCVxd3Aj5XFKZe4x2b+lComMMntu6+Few0d0koD5pxs=; b=EPTgbBa8mXu+srxyknsfMUFt6C0qD8zCAv48mQFgyZ06LSX+OqDUO6izKQUWAG5Rrjxt 0CrFKOVGSAyk5ftP3DLHqr7cSc5aZec8Qpbhauvo3hFYBze5/OWwtWa7MYzqRc+pbGiF dwH6vkDvhuzHm5aQpBMwrXLfWpO+NzNwxxtp4zl0cybkOvnTXSd7EZHgNsd5o2L3Zq6q 5fETJUUQWa+rUgsxikKXFLpn26sONHDLJ0RrHWlb6QA0JPa6Sj2IhaiaOFSdEJePawnU 1otXnXJraGQ4yfkfpvWOkpc467lTFCA0XdfxYoCTQeUrrK0HE7YL7BKoO09s1Sen740w QQ== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2tq78q7aa5-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:19:00 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6JF7Zwu024749; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:19:00 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ttc8g7kgc-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:19:00 +0000 Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x6JFItoF021584; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:18:56 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <26f9b413-c5b5-479f-91b9-2c8c51b43796@default> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:18:54 +0000 (UTC) From: Drew Adams To: Stephen Berman , Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4861.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9322 signatures=668688 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1907190166 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9322 signatures=668688 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1907190166 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: =?utf-8?B?TWF0dGlhcyBFbmdkZWfDpXJk?= , 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > >> The first line of a directory listing reads > >> > >> total used in directory 71752 available 65.2 GiB > >> > >> where it is a mystery what the first number represents. Often it is 51= 2-byte > >> blocks, which is confusing and not very useful, and cannot easily be > >> compared with the 'available' number (which is crystal clear). > > > > Feel free to suggest a clarification in the doc string of 'dired'. >=20 > An alternative is to do for "total used" what was done for "available". > On systems that use `ls' (at least the GNU version), users can do that > by setting the environment variable BLOCK_SIZE, but since the change to > the display of "available" was unconditional (if I'm not mistaken), we > could do the same for the display of "total used", e.g. as in the below > patch. (But since this won't work on systems that don't use GNU `ls', > either another solution just for them or a different general one would > be needed.) FWIW, my `ls-lisp+.el' code gives this: files 38/38 space used 2563 available 103423152 and mouse-over (`help-echo') on the `files 38/38' says: Files shown / total files in directory and mouse-over on the `space used ...' part says: Kbytes used in directory, Kbytes available on disk and `RET' or `mouse-2' anywhere on that line pops up `*Help* with info like this (` help-fns+.el' is also needed, for function `describe-file'): g:/usr/foo/bar -------------- File Type: Directory Permissions: drwxrwxrwx Time of last access: Mon Apr 22 04:48:30 2019 (Pacific Daylight Tim= e) Time of last modification: Mon Apr 22 04:48:30 2019 (Pacific Daylight Tim= e) Time of last status change: Wed Jul 25 08:00:46 2018 (Pacific Daylight Tim= e) Number of links: 1 User ID (UID): 68752 Group ID (GID): 312 Inode: 281474976872649 Device number: 315267003 Maybe some such aids could be added to vanilla Dired. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 21 04:19:27 2019 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2019 08:19:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58131 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hp742-0006oJ-Tt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 04:19:27 -0400 Received: from mail81c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.91]:35998 helo=mail18c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hp73z-0006o8-Sy for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 04:19:25 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1563697162; bh=X/GLCxzDz6yI6NT0Onx1Cbu8zJo/J8+eUOjw+3v92uk=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=oHX7/14FmG2Z7kjhaVXQfgFZVYTtNDrPZKvXm38c0UqdFvockX0QRYQO+loHPDq+D PZ56MGlxGA9rIuefMEJN96G3iNb4xA4jOgomQ54ohXPDcUV58jdjq9wKiVg7G/GCxr ecQKJDCyzec6MkPLn8VhKRMdlfHLPz1X7fTywBOQ= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from [192.168.1.64] (c-e636e253.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.226.54.230]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail18c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id x6L8JDQn027853; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 08:19:15 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 10:19:13 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <68D3B8E0-26F0-474A-B76D-320E523DBDDC@acm.org> References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A0B0213.5D34200A.0028, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=OKgJIxSB c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=M+GU/qJco4WXjv8D6jB2IA==:117 a=M+GU/qJco4WXjv8D6jB2IA==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=VVlED5B4AAAA:8 a=0rWC5-eOPBjRmEDtYI4A:9 a=ykxZnAtja94jP2SN:21 a=Aymxis4WnUE5bnEX:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: 36729@debbugs.gnu.org, Stephen Berman , Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) 19 juli 2019 kl. 14.16 skrev Eli Zaretskii : >=20 > Feel free to suggest a clarification in the doc string of 'dired'. Frankly, I wouldn't know what to write. That the number should be = ignored? We'd better remove it in the first place. Of course, someone is bound to complain if such a thing were attempted. 19 juli 2019 kl. 15.28 skrev Stephen Berman : >=20 > On systems that use `ls' (at least the GNU version), users can do that > by setting the environment variable BLOCK_SIZE, but since the change = to > the display of "available" was unconditional (if I'm not mistaken), we > could do the same for the display of "total used", e.g. as in the = below > patch. (But since this won't work on systems that don't use GNU `ls', > either another solution just for them or a different general one would > be needed.) Thank you -- specifically, it doesn't work for BSD ls. We could set BLOCKSIZE to 1024 -- this works on both GNU and BSD ls -- = and then post-process the output. Or insert the switch `-k', which is in = Posix (in contrast to BLOCKSIZE or BLOCK_SIZE), but I don't know if that = would break any customisation. It's all very fragile. Migrating to a fully built-in directory lister = seems to be the only sane way out, and it's considerably more work than = I anticipated for this little detail. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 21 10:30:10 2019 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2019 14:30:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59247 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpCqo-00017p-7S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 10:30:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48732) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpCqn-00016l-Fb for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 10:30:09 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39505) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hpCqh-0004kd-UY; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 10:30:03 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1055 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hpCqh-0008Tv-9F; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 10:30:03 -0400 Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 17:29:47 +0300 Message-Id: <8336izsbok.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-reply-to: <68D3B8E0-26F0-474A-B76D-320E523DBDDC@acm.org> (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Sun, 21 Jul 2019 10:19:13 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <68D3B8E0-26F0-474A-B76D-320E523DBDDC@acm.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: 36729@debbugs.gnu.org, stephen.berman@gmx.net, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd > Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 10:19:13 +0200 > Cc: 36729@debbugs.gnu.org, Stephen Berman , > Drew Adams > > 19 juli 2019 kl. 14.16 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > > > > Feel free to suggest a clarification in the doc string of 'dired'. > > Frankly, I wouldn't know what to write. That the number should be ignored? We'd better remove it in the first place. (Your reaction seems to imply that I said something silly. Did I?) Your original report was about the unclear units of the value, so a useful clarification would be to tell something about those units. That is what I had in mind when I suggested a doc clarification. > Migrating to a fully built-in directory lister seems to be the only > sane way out, and it's considerably more work than I anticipated for > this little detail. We already have ls-lisp.el. It isn't used on platforms where 'ls' is available because AFAIK using 'ls' is faster. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 21 14:36:27 2019 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2019 18:36:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59500 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpGh8-0005bX-RO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 14:36:27 -0400 Received: from mail1425c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.25]:48506 helo=mail102c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpGh6-0005bJ-Uy for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 14:36:26 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1563734178; bh=VRVza+3IsoPV/FP5Q51wb3Nd8N4GNwKcmiAwhLBxPa4=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=kOP+ClNvTvNqubK/eWlH9KCDktSc93PGdSXWuh5YmcounXnvptHp1cC8ndpVcrmTw eA3t1EH+Pl1pSbhnW1F4foGxVmW+X9uVB2JEVQhV6NLtAZ9fLgGuxWdIZK9o5+T3tW twD1BKls0/ByS0C+9wPv7z9PZgkiaV2pBD/gRJnw= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from [192.168.0.4] ([188.150.171.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail102c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id x6LIaFoG013999; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 18:36:17 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <8336izsbok.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 20:36:15 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <68D3B8E0-26F0-474A-B76D-320E523DBDDC@acm.org> <8336izsbok.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A0B0202.5D34B0A2.000F, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=RfS+9Wlv c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:117 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=xJC5c8JSQjeCgl1JxboA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: 36729@debbugs.gnu.org, stephen.berman@gmx.net, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 21 juli 2019 kl. 16.29 skrev Eli Zaretskii : >=20 > (Your reaction seems to imply that I said something silly. Did I?) Absolutely not, your comment was most reasonable. It was just my honest = reaction of exasperation for not being able to fix such a stupid detail = properly. > Your original report was about the unclear units of the value, so a > useful clarification would be to tell something about those units. > That is what I had in mind when I suggested a doc clarification. Quite, but while we could write that the value might be this or that, it = wouldn't actually help the user unless he or she is so well-informed = that no explanation is needed. As we all know, good design should not = need explaining. > We already have ls-lisp.el. It isn't used on platforms where 'ls' is > available because AFAIK using 'ls' is faster. Is that is still noticeable on modern systems, or just for very big = and/or recursive listings? I understand the history behind Dired's design: at one point in time, = using the system `ls' was not only a way to re-use existing system = software, but also gave performance advantages as well as presenting the = information in a familiar way. In addition, the `ls' output was more or = less identical everywhere, making it easy to parse (no localisation, no = Unicode, no MS-DOS, no fancy GNU or BSD options). The `ls -l' format, in turn, hasn't changed perceptibly for 40 years, = give or take a few -- not because it was perfect from the start but = because nobody dared breaking scripts and shell pipelines for minor = usability advantages. Thus we are stuck with silly design elements like: - major structure indicated with a discrete 'd' in column 1 - less-important stuff like the link count and group name prominently = displayed - the file name itself relegated to the very end as if an afterthought, = often going past the margin - disk usage counted in 512-byte physical disk sectors (but not = including subdirectories, that would be too useful) - timestamp parts separated in columns equal in importance to other = attributes - directory 'size' column almost completely useless - little support for file system improvements since 1975 We can do better, while retaining the old format for those who have = grown too accustomed to it (not meant as pejorative). It's just not what I had planned for in order to fix this bug. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 21 17:31:32 2019 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2019 21:31:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59612 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpJQa-0004Pn-0i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 17:31:32 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:52304) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpJQY-0004PT-Bd for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 17:31:30 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6LLUXVi070473; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 21:31:13 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=SXtlBs5PAw3VLt1bJU87fZZdw5V6ByGGyMB3EBTsB9M=; b=FZXMWD2fali/h/JR7r/edSyAhqHvNRm8RqDD2epyhO81sywmacFF3K0ZumT1Py0KAHeR C/YGdkLgbXzTY6/PHWXQLBRTFkPSlhaTOz8msNaV1RmVLJcYkLvcqSOkS1nmzTCMZHk3 YjmMNES/ZAPrGBZg1z65QjIhPv0+Jvhi08tGqmvmTMg0v64tkz0B/N/ZWU+aKjaFcJx3 5vAqSSxN4+73hf3+qGauKk+bDBe/+Rl2FaPEl9782cUMVOlR6CMSL9/873g+KbqEX6I4 RcYIIXE9ny8gIUfzHWX0w7Cgme/4KjQ2119/YGQJcIgpchGqhPklVGydtGKT26Q9f4rk 0g== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2tutct3f5v-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Jul 2019 21:31:12 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6LLRUxO126556; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 21:31:12 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2tuts2bn42-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Jul 2019 21:31:11 +0000 Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x6LLV8IZ019629; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 21:31:08 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <26fec456-c6bc-461f-8618-9cbc87cdde67@default> Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 14:31:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: =?iso-8859-1?B?TWF0dGlhcyBFbmdkZWflcmQ=?= , Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <68D3B8E0-26F0-474A-B76D-320E523DBDDC@acm.org> <8336izsbok.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9325 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1907210249 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9325 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1907210249 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: 36729@debbugs.gnu.org, stephen.berman@gmx.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) I'm not weighing in here about most of what I see being discussed in the thread. And note that I use Emacs mostly on MS Windows these days, so I use ls-lisp (and am very grateful for it). > I understand the history behind Dired's design: at one point in time, > using the system `ls' was not only a way to re-use existing system > software, but also gave performance advantages as well as presenting > the information in a familiar way. In addition, the `ls' output was > more or less identical everywhere, making it easy to parse (no > localisation, no Unicode, no MS-DOS, no fancy GNU or BSD options). Those are 3 good reasons for Dired being based on `ls' and its listings: (1) performance, (2) familiarity, and (3) regularity and simplicity of design/handling (e.g. parsing). Another good reason is that a given user's system `ls' command might support switches and behavior that ls-lisp does not support. That one you left out, and it's the one that most directly concerns ls-lisp. Ls-lisp is not, and likely will never be, a complete replacement for all of the possible `ls' commands out there. IMHO, Dired should continue to be based on `ls', at least in the sense of (1) accepting, displaying, and working with its output, and (2) accepting and handling its most common switches. > The `ls -l' format, in turn, hasn't changed perceptibly for 40 years, > give or take a few -- not because it was perfect from the start but > because nobody dared breaking scripts and shell pipelines for minor > usability advantages. >=20 > Thus we are stuck with silly design elements like: > - major structure indicated with a discrete 'd' in column 1 > - less-important stuff like the link count and group name prominently > displayed > - the file name itself relegated to the very end as if an afterthought, > often going past the margin > - disk usage counted in 512-byte physical disk sectors (but not > including subdirectories, that would be too useful) > - timestamp parts separated in columns equal in importance to other > attributes > - directory 'size' column almost completely useless > - little support for file system improvements since 1975 I disagree that the "prominence" of such info is a problem in Dired nowadays. It is trivial to use Dired with such info hidden, and it's trivial to toggle, to hide/show it. In my case, I keep details hidden most of the time. I typically just show them temporarily to check the time or byte size of a file or two. > We can do better, while retaining the old format for those who have > grown too accustomed to it (not meant as pejorative). > It's just not what I had planned for in order to fix this bug. It sounds instead like your complaint is with `ls' itself - being 1975-ish or something. Push to make `ls' become the way you want it, and let Dired then adapt to support that, if it happens. There is a _lot_ to Dired, including use of `find' output and the ability to show info for files and directories from unrelated parts of the file system in the same buffer (a little known, useful feature). We should not be proposing a Dired replacement for `ls' output. (And I didn't think this bug was supposed to be about that, anyway.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 21 22:31:14 2019 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2019 02:31:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59781 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpO6c-0000fb-AP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:31:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39831) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpO6b-0000fP-Af for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:31:13 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49853) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hpO6V-0005bJ-J7; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:31:07 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1519 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hpO6U-0004z8-OO; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:31:07 -0400 Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 05:30:52 +0300 Message-Id: <83lfwqrear.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-reply-to: (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Sun, 21 Jul 2019 20:36:15 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <68D3B8E0-26F0-474A-B76D-320E523DBDDC@acm.org> <8336izsbok.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: 36729@debbugs.gnu.org, stephen.berman@gmx.net, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd > Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 20:36:15 +0200 > Cc: 36729@debbugs.gnu.org, stephen.berman@gmx.net, drew.adams@oracle.com > > > We already have ls-lisp.el. It isn't used on platforms where 'ls' is > > available because AFAIK using 'ls' is faster. > > Is that is still noticeable on modern systems, or just for very big and/or recursive listings? I think its generally slower. But you can try and see for yourself. > We can do better, while retaining the old format for those who have grown too accustomed to it (not meant as pejorative). I think switching Dired to a different layout will be so revolutionary that it warrants a new name, not Dired. People are too accustomed to that format, not in the least because they also use "ls -l" from the shell prompt. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 21 22:32:22 2019 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2019 02:32:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59785 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpO7h-0000hE-NJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:32:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40077) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpO7g-0000h1-Ap for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:32:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49900) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hpO7b-0005wy-4h; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:32:15 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1589 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hpO7a-0001Eb-Dx; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:32:14 -0400 Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 05:32:00 +0300 Message-Id: <83k1care8v.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <26fec456-c6bc-461f-8618-9cbc87cdde67@default> (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 21 Jul 2019 14:31:07 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <68D3B8E0-26F0-474A-B76D-320E523DBDDC@acm.org> <8336izsbok.fsf@gnu.org> <26fec456-c6bc-461f-8618-9cbc87cdde67@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, 36729@debbugs.gnu.org, stephen.berman@gmx.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 14:31:07 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 36729@debbugs.gnu.org, stephen.berman@gmx.net > > Another good reason is that a given user's system > `ls' command might support switches and behavior > that ls-lisp does not support. That one you left > out, and it's the one that most directly concerns > ls-lisp. Ls-lisp is not, and likely will never > be, a complete replacement for all of the possible > `ls' commands out there. That is only true for some switches of GNU 'ls', AFAIK. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 21 22:44:06 2019 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2019 02:44:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59791 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpOJ3-0000x6-Ra for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:44:06 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:49862) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpOJ2-0000wS-2B for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:44:04 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6M2hi5i149741; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 02:43:44 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=Mtr49JoMXg1Khaqdtt86B4IAKi5qNf0YXWlZIG78LVI=; b=LlqmNFiqlfw60QXGwUmtSN8ElTr1Ts5j6UtKwarEdg0900a9YiLSNRra4vaPh7UzAQil oYjNf2lkoMOQd4wiC0krtwfLHys3Ay/xwoPhjJ+fzwKQHv/BGiFUWIez5zYzu44ZWb+k MPVBSKzAG8LF+v1R1ppC6GB2tICdegVl85+n8UVnVskh+M8DSoiWr+X0wNsnpCCyZEtx WY7uOZaKLMK/qGNO9ue5me6un4K9U7jBoE/mbLC8ohznX88z/dPC0hey4iiNKlxRczGD aF7P0sDc/ifVBiFFFNnxkJxXY5IUh1lAoQPENkV8XtSvcYfZ2T3zXMNCibwCxvk+nCnz /g== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2tutwp3ubr-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 22 Jul 2019 02:43:44 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6M2h2fG063834; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 02:43:42 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2tuts2fm7k-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 22 Jul 2019 02:43:41 +0000 Received: from abhmp0017.oracle.com (abhmp0017.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x6M2haNS025309; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 02:43:38 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 19:43:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <<048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org>> <<83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org>> <<68D3B8E0-26F0-474A-B76D-320E523DBDDC@acm.org>> <<8336izsbok.fsf@gnu.org>> <> <<26fec456-c6bc-461f-8618-9cbc87cdde67@default>> <<83k1care8v.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83k1care8v.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9325 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1907220029 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9325 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1907220029 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, 36729@debbugs.gnu.org, stephen.berman@gmx.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Another good reason is that a given user's system > > `ls' command might support switches and behavior > > that ls-lisp does not support. That one you left > > out, and it's the one that most directly concerns > > ls-lisp. Ls-lisp is not, and likely will never > > be, a complete replacement for all of the possible > > `ls' commands out there. >=20 > That is only true for some switches of GNU 'ls', AFAIK. And perhaps not just GNU. ls-lisp supports the `ls' switches that are common. AFAIK, it doesn't claim to support every switch of every `ls', even one being added tonight to some system. But if I'm wrong, and it commits to keeping up with all systems that have `ls' and that might add a switch (or change a switch's behavior), then more power to it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 26 14:41:54 2019 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2019 18:41:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43371 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hr5A9-0002R3-T3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 14:41:54 -0400 Received: from crocodile.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.45]:59115) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hr5A6-0002Qu-It for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 14:41:52 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31DBE502168; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 18:41:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-14-95.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.14.95]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B81D8501D0B; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 18:41:47 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a46.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.17.3); Fri, 26 Jul 2019 18:41:48 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Arch-Hysterical: 4d12609619aad1c6_1564166507870_3587771063 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1564166507870:1681195483 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1564166507869 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7831F7FD8D; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 11:41:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=linkov.net; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=linkov.net; bh=B75MPMDpJ3G1wm/kxXAXYVExfkA=; b= FUgIp+mXDEg6NtFkxY7WLE0O1ilWcHIbtd4idFadXHQpbbuO5uU412QYL4j77urL ZFYTj9KsQmtZdJxWjVM+xo+MJq2cfyqwaWxV5gxd5KvzjET++cYAv5Q4xY46mFNe pEVdDUmqRVWO5jkUvjWnvKiMZfEQetAeZ0YJ+xMoK7o= Received: from mail.jurta.org (m91-129-103-76.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.103.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jurta@jurta.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DE2E67FD8A; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 11:41:43 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a46 From: Juri Linkov To: Mattias =?iso-8859-1?Q?Engdeg=E5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <68D3B8E0-26F0-474A-B76D-320E523DBDDC@acm.org> <8336izsbok.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 21:30:13 +0300 In-Reply-To: ("Mattias \=\?iso-8859-1\?Q\?Engdeg\=E5rd\=22's\?\= message of "Sun, 21 Jul 2019 20:36:15 +0200") Message-ID: <87d0hx0zkp.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduvddrkeeggdduvdelucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhephffvufhofhffjgfkfgggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomheplfhurhhiucfnihhnkhhovhcuoehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtqeenucfkphepledurdduvdelrddutdefrdejieenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghlohepmhgrihhlrdhjuhhrthgrrdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepledurdduvdelrddutdefrdejiedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthheplfhurhhiucfnihhnkhhovhcuoehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtpdhnrhgtphhtthhopehmrghtthhirghsvgesrggtmhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , stephen.berman@gmx.net, 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > - directory 'size' column almost completely useless There is a package dired-du available on ELPA that displays recursive directory sizes in Dired. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 22 10:00:28 2020 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2020 14:00:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50900 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9U4J-0005Pz-Rl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 10:00:28 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:36120) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9U4H-0005JP-PB for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 10:00:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=UnNqju3QlbqSYkeqm34f04EAQNjMnTr10syBOywsP3k=; b=rU0gCU3S58qkJocpCad1bkZ8AV 7G7J5bRsgHnWNPa/jnNvCLDOfpg+7tFHV5v2DqxyIr9NnUcuGqpwdFQ8DpX4nQR2WY37PxV+/+55r nZTZG6ydO+92w+0eCFIvOXqK50bLN13cbJU/NxhDxbm6VPPgWsNu//lcP982TtoLSSUI=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k9U41-0008EQ-NH; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:00:19 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> X-Now-Playing: Mia Doi Todd's _Floresta_: "Chovendo Na Roseira" Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:00:08 +0200 In-Reply-To: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Fri, 19 Jul 2019 12:15:58 +0200") Message-ID: <875z9an5lj.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd writes: > The first line of a directory listing reads > > total used in directory 71752 available 65.2 GiB > > where it is a mystery what the first number represents. Often it is > 512-byte blocks, which is c [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > The first line of a directory listing reads > > total used in directory 71752 available 65.2 GiB > > where it is a mystery what the first number represents. Often it is > 512-byte blocks, which is confusing and not very useful, and cannot > easily be compared with the 'available' number (which is crystal > clear). > > It has always been thus, but previously the 'available' number was > itself somewhat obscure so the first number didn't stand out. Hm... 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/fPPP9u2bUtNTQWBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIAIDBABAAAAAAAAAAAyIgARAAAAAAAA AACgGhRUP/4fPieSTq+B8h0AAAAASUVORK5CYII= --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain But that's because I have: (setq dired-listing-switches "-alh") It's confusing that it's doing the human-readable bit on the available but not on the "used" with the default "-al". -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 22 10:02:41 2020 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2020 14:02:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50904 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9U6T-0007A6-B6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 10:02:41 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:36160) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9U6R-00075H-NB for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 10:02:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=qbutJ1seBN87qosLnUaAIFQJ53HqmrZgM7AYpM3U/9Q=; b=TLoG3DHrH/GuUjqR7uYqoLSgGw 3y6i+4fhvMohjC1su5APgkFpifR/P2SvqNUhkZEEEbEm27oqUJuoLE+71FTLGzLdDZ7nGQJLCWRSv WDEJvs/LsYkD4/WEgsUBTGJlP98PTtcBoViT+B3syraVfyrWVxfoKkdPMrIOknLkii+c=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k9U6I-0008F4-Gh; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:02:33 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stephen Berman Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> X-Now-Playing: Mia Doi Todd's _Floresta_: "Menina, =?utf-8?B?QW1hbmjDg8Kj?= De =?utf-8?B?TWFuaMODwqMi?= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:02:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> (Stephen Berman's message of "Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:28:12 +0200") Message-ID: <871rjyn5hn.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stephen Berman writes: > An alternative is to do for "total used" what was done for "available". > On systems that use `ls' (at least the GNU version), users can do that > by setting the environment variable BLOCK_SIZE, but [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , Eli Zaretskii , 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stephen Berman writes: > An alternative is to do for "total used" what was done for "available". > On systems that use `ls' (at least the GNU version), users can do that > by setting the environment variable BLOCK_SIZE, but since the change to > the display of "available" was unconditional (if I'm not mistaken), we > could do the same for the display of "total used", e.g. as in the below > patch. [...] > + (block-size (getenv "BLOCK_SIZE")) > end) > + (setenv "BLOCK_SIZE" "si") [...] > - (dired-insert-set-properties content-point (point))))) > + (dired-insert-set-properties content-point (point))) > + (if block-size > + (setenv "BLOCK_SIZE" block-size) > + (setenv-internal process-environment "BLOCK_SIZE" nil t)))) Makes sense to me, but this should probably be protected by an `unwind-protect' to ensure that things get properly reset. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 22 10:02:51 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2020 14:02:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50907 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9U6c-0007GD-NW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 10:02:50 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:36178) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9U6a-0007Bs-Ec for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 10:02:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=9K2oKIs7NrNbTd7hiEHyjUOdtQXcMmmeVgmyLEWIgFc=; b=kgwEnZjtPEmeKH2+AcfL1Npp06 fGvedtmy4TcuGGmP0KGi4f3f31J5P8mqAqDqtOmnfMfz1NHHG19T5QeU6GdD4TiEp6S18w6bESkBA qdr6YBF07EZj3b/X3XUDjs81unbI49DzuehFKr6OSYVw+1odT8VuJB/CIiY8JpwYMtc4=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k9U6S-0008FE-Lw for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:02:42 +0200 Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:02:39 +0200 Message-Id: <87zh6mlqww.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #36729 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 36729 + patch quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 36729 + patch quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 26 06:10:33 2020 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Aug 2020 10:10:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37446 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAsO1-0005gb-6j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 06:10:33 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:35745) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAsNz-0005gP-My for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 06:10:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1598436623; bh=L/EqrWjpYKdKIlKEsvNROPLyqwRmbt7RmRWangeWhfY=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=g5XvR5UZtoIYMbHDdyU0FNCb15FFbXnMVO+ToJ13u/fywyN+JBtd7rP1VE3+JljB4 X8G4bHA/Fzp1mGZ+31SVHuXXzDwXhIzFUP3Fg4GUQ5fRelzOeMMfkBmcZvjvxchYYE K7inEwU63/Hyibb5BTf49Rdv/SvVHwJm3hg5IZe0= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from strobe-jhalfs ([84.61.246.117]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MWih0-1k8hcN1RKy-00X1XF; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 12:10:23 +0200 From: Stephen Berman To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> <871rjyn5hn.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 12:10:21 +0200 In-Reply-To: <871rjyn5hn.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:02:28 +0200") Message-ID: <87mu2hen02.fsf@gmx.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:1JRHyXkACYrP53KhxLCAJVyQtlshnJIkSUMqMEa1Q18rrWF5qg2 jgSlWUZCiGwlIfnj+piQzyLHpL9y9jwMyHkBvPZXpYxyTVQ9Wvmy2OYJl01/kh9Nr6K58Cf j7UtJ+ZBN65zOXxWVNzl/ECN5rhH27ctZX5sZ4uNCq9kyNtCcJJMMVWFgjddbYGyKH8/uwr Gg4IVbN6oWam6QFhHqybA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:LbcsiM7r7pY=:rVxBftc9IqSOoJAjM3EAGf /+VHJyaBFGmrReGMdI79u+C7w7NT6xERYwd6zLfNBLnEUOpsDLjAKVGGlXwDsQZ+Z2Q/1A2pP Fk84DchC/gT+P4qF0hn1Q9mhehGD8dCiwMGigukIKHx19mL53ZEeE6Z+AQVYlE21yuYJ0A1LV sJdbheHFs1XId6uKpWw4njSINJGelJjV6oKZ3SKRgQqMX2F51/i4ykixttvkmT/KzYfYhz6zK QTb8B1HS5gqArEvgd7S0L0ud4mVouHQpDkI/zYeMdbFOD+Vpf+n+l6qYbEt7IRq1aR+PQahP1 tP/NLqW7GL0RnmsuCjD1vR51LIEza706xfGx3HMgr7u0EFfWpdd8lwcgeKZO3jZPSKJ+iAUEb 1cnpmDNiKobSC0YdSMl1n/QtIeR4NWT2TtvKq5kw32W+QUflJGpaQu8zuuqEC3F7z5q7q+/G0 Iayu2ALr0F6XCDqNsN7ZtYYfVtt2apELs/xtDUU4vTHz9AXVh7xxmLRErrSk9BJa58Mitgpmf heT7afjpuS2rw1zIqW/5ylWk5KvATQfJIv+2wUYnl9u7NmDwYj767FGG8gO8aQzo0dP/F81hu 08Rz5VD7v81Kc8//3y4q04ma7ubpSTClW8mSj0tcqArGIGsMPiLca+fNqJEVp77aYy2HVxog+ nTRW4JgvDkJUYzWLkEAkT9+6Cqti7WF+ISdxoUD7L/Vrwmvlq/MM3sRaTtkllZdCRAfvtSyX0 gkqre2grl/Zh8r1n0C85ruTa80t2nnJloQRkXA3Z+8it/cwmJ0l4qqxTKHpKqee6xe755jeHe OWmz6AAzzqmTMTT/e6/J0EBJ/BF+DOo1XjHut8pHcjVYoZw0Cpux0138gV845Ue0h9U3pixfm 8u2A9VAxKTyEyyf8gb6+Ufd7cvAfrWIFniHj0nA8cnsMjB45JYhnqIrf+LsDQgjV77jjXh7dw vN+8O6dmHdFGsXpUvMHhpwIBaRFtOXHMQG2Q9uT0Z4SYmlUP5k8SL0n7BVMuhq+cat3UCH1/g MXPfNtwEi1SThaUvzhMt3/Ybq23DMLASmsmCV0VodVujcPEKnU8pjgoP1z25hDYO0hzP2qJBO QIPRV4I1YXrp5LeW9BNBC/E6ultBADE6cpVkg3pYl56i0Bxwc0+2Z82s2kAQP5bYFpWeNp79E hNx8jClNeF1i7NnOwtESdfo4VV5TezmQ3n9EI5lKVLzW9VbgqYFD2Ab/02GdLzGRUYZnpLq3P A6tbDp+VOJufkrcrcxYNz2MUiO/X4OwmlvSshKA== Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , Eli Zaretskii , 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:02:28 +0200 Lars Ingebrigtsen wrot= e: > Stephen Berman writes: > >> An alternative is to do for "total used" what was done for "available". >> On systems that use `ls' (at least the GNU version), users can do that >> by setting the environment variable BLOCK_SIZE, but since the change to >> the display of "available" was unconditional (if I'm not mistaken), we >> could do the same for the display of "total used", e.g. as in the below >> patch. > > [...] > >> + (block-size (getenv "BLOCK_SIZE")) >> end) >> + (setenv "BLOCK_SIZE" "si") > > [...] > >> - (dired-insert-set-properties content-point (point))))) >> + (dired-insert-set-properties content-point (point))) >> + (if block-size >> + (setenv "BLOCK_SIZE" block-size) >> + (setenv-internal process-environment "BLOCK_SIZE" nil t)))) > > Makes sense to me, but this should probably be protected by an > `unwind-protect' to ensure that things get properly reset. Yes, but since this idea won't work with all ls implementations, I assumed it's not worth pursuing. Steve Berman From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 07 00:44:30 2020 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Oct 2020 04:44:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54808 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ1JV-0006cZ-SB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 00:44:30 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40264) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ1JU-0006cJ-VY for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 00:44:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=IORAjIjDb0CTwYha6KMbIN0WBl2SorvKlBWrfPOHOtg=; b=KrdA1ufFhfIfry1y8zwQzWaUlb OFGsn9ZyREnrVQJz4AwsIkvS79Ltr8AOTjt58eH67A3kyludNDS9VW9SrxuZnsCD5ejSYAMuoQEMJ /+ohydquOrbWkgjOw4D09yaq9XF92RyzBuOowbO5W/mMNgbP0PhgdR3bCdLIB6T3elvI=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ1JM-0001DN-Lm; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 06:44:23 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stephen Berman Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> <871rjyn5hn.fsf@gnus.org> <87mu2hen02.fsf@gmx.net> X-Now-Playing: Jamie XX's _In Colour_: "Girl" Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 06:44:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87mu2hen02.fsf@gmx.net> (Stephen Berman's message of "Wed, 26 Aug 2020 12:10:21 +0200") Message-ID: <87r1qa4pct.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stephen Berman writes: > Yes, but since this idea won't work with all ls implementations, I > assumed it's not worth pursuing. It works with ls on GNU systems, right? I think that's what we care about most. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , Eli Zaretskii , 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stephen Berman writes: > Yes, but since this idea won't work with all ls implementations, I > assumed it's not worth pursuing. It works with ls on GNU systems, right? I think that's what we care about most. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 07 03:50:48 2020 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Oct 2020 07:50:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55028 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ4Dn-00056W-Tl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 03:50:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59124) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ4Dm-00056F-GP for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 03:50:46 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41196) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ4Dg-0004df-VW; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 03:50:40 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1165 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ4Df-000810-Rt; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 03:50:40 -0400 Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 10:50:45 +0300 Message-Id: <838scia2zu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87r1qa4pct.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Wed, 07 Oct 2020 06:44:18 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> <871rjyn5hn.fsf@gnus.org> <87mu2hen02.fsf@gmx.net> <87r1qa4pct.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, 36729@debbugs.gnu.org, stephen.berman@gmx.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: Mattias Engdegård , Eli Zaretskii > , > 36729@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 06:44:18 +0200 > > Stephen Berman writes: > > > Yes, but since this idea won't work with all ls implementations, I > > assumed it's not worth pursuing. > > It works with ls on GNU systems, right? I think that's what we care > about most. I no longer understand what we are trying to solve here. Can someone please summarize the current HEAD of this discussion? E.g., what would replace that summary line under the latest proposals? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 07 06:03:53 2020 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Oct 2020 10:03:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55298 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ6Ib-000271-LJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 06:03:53 -0400 Received: from mail1434c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.34]:41416 helo=mail263c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ6IX-00026e-NX for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 06:03:52 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1602065022; bh=Zs17tUf4gyEarK5Ltp8Rk7R5JC2VVEPjtkLTwbk7+5Y=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=p6BpmdOritSgW8bihTK5Zb7CgsU06V8mF+7y9veG7rUGpLFtOi2RheCEOdWsTS5/I OWfaAXETwzXwpEPKvpzjVdj0k6HHpQDuFJQGBvNbSWJRed5TzW3daHfjxvHwWdX9NS 5dhOC0wd61fvuSB5PSBKTl7uQGP9s9EkY0qrUjrY= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from stanniol.lan (c-304ee655.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [85.230.78.48]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail263c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 097A3dQk032741; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 10:03:41 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <838scia2zu.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2020 12:03:39 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <84AFB7F6-D925-4552-A165-927996C1C7B6@acm.org> References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> <871rjyn5hn.fsf@gnus.org> <87mu2hen02.fsf@gmx.net> <87r1qa4pct.fsf@gnus.org> <838scia2zu.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F1A.5F7D927E.005B, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=e6d4tph/ c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=63Z2wlQ1NB3xHpgKFKE71g==:117 a=63Z2wlQ1NB3xHpgKFKE71g==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=f7mZUqaJOgNlKgemMuYA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 7 okt. 2020 kl. 09.50 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > I no longer understand what we are trying to solve here. A bit lost here myself, but it seems that no real progress has been made and that the original problem (how to display a meaningful 'total' value in dired) is still at hand. Content analysis details: (1.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.4 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , stephen.berman@gmx.net, 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 7 okt. 2020 kl. 09.50 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > I no longer understand what we are trying to solve here. A bit lost here myself, but it seems that no real progress has been made = and that the original problem (how to display a meaningful 'total' value = in dired) is still at hand. However given the apparent constraints (running an external 'ls' binary = with unclear semantics; uncountable platform variations; user-settable = 'ls' switches; sensitivity to environment variables; localised output; = &c &c) I don't think it can be solved in any reasonable way. I therefore = propose closing the bug as 'wontfix'. Sorry about not thinking it through before reporting it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 07 08:15:15 2020 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Oct 2020 12:15:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55505 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ8Li-0007Zm-M1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 08:15:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60894) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ8LS-0007Yf-RD for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 08:15:13 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:43840) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ8LL-0003dm-M3; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 08:14:53 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1422 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ8LB-000344-Ty; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 08:14:48 -0400 Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 15:14:47 +0300 Message-Id: <83zh4y8c7c.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <84AFB7F6-D925-4552-A165-927996C1C7B6@acm.org> (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Wed, 7 Oct 2020 12:03:39 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> <871rjyn5hn.fsf@gnus.org> <87mu2hen02.fsf@gmx.net> <87r1qa4pct.fsf@gnus.org> <838scia2zu.fsf@gnu.org> <84AFB7F6-D925-4552-A165-927996C1C7B6@acm.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stephen.berman@gmx.net, 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2020 12:03:39 +0200 > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , stephen.berman@gmx.net, > 36729@debbugs.gnu.org > > 7 okt. 2020 kl. 09.50 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > > > I no longer understand what we are trying to solve here. > > A bit lost here myself, but it seems that no real progress has been made and that the original problem (how to display a meaningful 'total' value in dired) is still at hand. Yes. > However given the apparent constraints (running an external 'ls' binary with unclear semantics; uncountable platform variations; user-settable 'ls' switches; sensitivity to environment variables; localised output; &c &c) I don't think it can be solved in any reasonable way. I therefore propose closing the bug as 'wontfix'. You mean, we cannot even say in what units those numbers are measured? AFAIU, the missing units were the original motivation for the bug report. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 07 09:50:53 2020 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Oct 2020 13:50:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55614 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ9qG-0001TF-Oa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 09:50:52 -0400 Received: from mail1449c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.49]:43070 helo=mail265c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ9qD-0001Sq-As; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 09:50:50 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1602078640; bh=dlYbnRnkhFfsEfhy8/o3Beo3XBAiLeFllDmlobqTkOE=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=pv/lDWZl77rq5CkBVMQ2vYcc7/IxY+1bf85s08S3ff8Sme2jXdP0xEoONOzd68gUq q/jfnGo2zk9IgmtET1t4UToRHDypjnJLf41XjiXrySW2xKvD4SHbPXK6ah9f5GKkFp 2NZ6B0EjJt/7byKgybs/rbMeY/G9Iy/J9Qidg+SY= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from stanniol.lan (c-304ee655.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [85.230.78.48]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail265c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 097DobNa024374; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 13:50:38 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <83zh4y8c7c.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2020 15:50:36 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> <871rjyn5hn.fsf@gnus.org> <87mu2hen02.fsf@gmx.net> <87r1qa4pct.fsf@gnus.org> <838scia2zu.fsf@gnu.org> <84AFB7F6-D925-4552-A165-927996C1C7B6@acm.org> <83zh4y8c7c.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F26.5F7DC7B0.007F, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=D5w51cZj c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=63Z2wlQ1NB3xHpgKFKE71g==:117 a=63Z2wlQ1NB3xHpgKFKE71g==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=QIN_S5CI4gGRHgjfiroA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: tags 36729 wontfix close 36729 stop 7 okt. 2020 kl. 14.14 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > You mean, we cannot even say in what units those numbers are measured? Content analysis details: (1.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.4 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stephen.berman@gmx.net, 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) tags 36729 wontfix close 36729 stop 7 okt. 2020 kl. 14.14 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > You mean, we cannot even say in what units those numbers are measured? That's right. It may be blocks, sectors, KiB, or baker's dozens. There = may be ways to influence the unit (switches, environment variables) but = not portably, and there is no way of telling what effects such efforts = take, if any. The alternative routes all sound equally infeasible. Sorry about wasting = your time; closing. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 07 10:23:47 2020 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Oct 2020 14:23:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57655 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQALz-0004v3-Pi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 10:23:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33686) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQALy-0004ur-86 for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 10:23:39 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45627) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQALs-0002wG-Hq; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 10:23:32 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1704 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kQALr-0002zS-Rf; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 10:23:32 -0400 Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 17:23:36 +0300 Message-Id: <83o8le868n.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Wed, 7 Oct 2020 15:50:36 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> <871rjyn5hn.fsf@gnus.org> <87mu2hen02.fsf@gmx.net> <87r1qa4pct.fsf@gnus.org> <838scia2zu.fsf@gnu.org> <84AFB7F6-D925-4552-A165-927996C1C7B6@acm.org> <83zh4y8c7c.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stephen.berman@gmx.net, 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2020 15:50:36 +0200 > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stephen.berman@gmx.net, 36729@debbugs.gnu.org > > > You mean, we cannot even say in what units those numbers are measured? > > That's right. It may be blocks, sectors, KiB, or baker's dozens. There may be ways to influence the unit (switches, environment variables) but not portably, and there is no way of telling what effects such efforts take, if any. Doesn't the result come from get-free-disk-space, which calls file-system-info, which reports in known units? Or am I confused? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 07 10:52:56 2020 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Oct 2020 14:52:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57696 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQAoK-0005e5-5z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 10:52:56 -0400 Received: from mail83c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.93]:50106 helo=mail18c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQAoH-0005dq-ME for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 10:52:54 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1602082369; bh=ETpPL0eOkXhmzgo81IbPTS1p3ErF0WUsrGUWutT1VcA=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=MK2dwpsQNwYk3vJ6cRqPKkKy0jq8JWLTbiXT8PIoooiJhesQDnWFvh8KVpcT9sFuP 3i+hjb3yYC6waK0zCG6yRCf8bSMdQfeoDbgLbL5nyALalT5WpzIoqS32cAXVOQEwy5 i3yaeYIjD1IXkVAujQjacvk0rsVKsj+M2GZuSs7M= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from stanniol.lan (c-304ee655.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [85.230.78.48]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail18c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 097EqkHS023934; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 14:52:48 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <83o8le868n.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2020 16:52:46 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> <871rjyn5hn.fsf@gnus.org> <87mu2hen02.fsf@gmx.net> <87r1qa4pct.fsf@gnus.org> <838scia2zu.fsf@gnu.org> <84AFB7F6-D925-4552-A165-927996C1C7B6@acm.org> <83zh4y8c7c.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8le868n.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F20.5F7DD641.005D, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=K8Zc4BeI c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=63Z2wlQ1NB3xHpgKFKE71g==:117 a=63Z2wlQ1NB3xHpgKFKE71g==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=nr_3EdA6Xd6HX2h9ag0A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=ncZ9vwaUYPMA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 7 okt. 2020 kl. 16.23 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > Doesn't the result come from get-free-disk-space, which calls > file-system-info, which reports in known units? It comes from the first line of 'ls -l' and is somehow related to the sizes of the shown files. Content analysis details: (1.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.4 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stephen.berman@gmx.net, 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 7 okt. 2020 kl. 16.23 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > Doesn't the result come from get-free-disk-space, which calls > file-system-info, which reports in known units? It comes from the first line of 'ls -l' and is somehow related to the = sizes of the shown files. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 07 12:40:40 2020 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Oct 2020 16:40:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57944 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQCUa-0004Ee-Aq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 12:40:40 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:60695) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQCUV-0004EO-Pl for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 12:40:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1602088826; bh=QZ9l5btwQSH5UxWaR1zGO5I+d1qeIjppZo1lPohRbTs=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Iul3Cfhr5gspn2YTYcnRgDX6Vd3Tw6+hPFpQn6Oy3HNLFO1VE2r5M+GjVUzPizl87 M6HfC/TrwuvO8O5wd4TSror3/7YKRGuHAxiPELVMyX6gZQ5joRzl9bCly6oC9gOAZV /jlz0AZnBV9n+YC+z9t5S0WsgObELQmO+1DjSVCk= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([178.20.94.186]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MfHEP-1kswSX13N5-00glBV; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 18:40:26 +0200 From: Michael Albinus To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> <871rjyn5hn.fsf@gnus.org> <87mu2hen02.fsf@gmx.net> <87r1qa4pct.fsf@gnus.org> <838scia2zu.fsf@gnu.org> <84AFB7F6-D925-4552-A165-927996C1C7B6@acm.org> <83zh4y8c7c.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8le868n.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 18:40:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83o8le868n.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 07 Oct 2020 17:23:36 +0300") Message-ID: <87v9fmxa4o.fsf@gmx.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Qv+SDVnm4KWSUGTwZOoNcbcdodtox1+1K8aFP7WHICq6xZZYm7z fkelczQMKytqym2PMp73NxI/k+y76oteDB8RjdLx9Jq6yNfXheWXhYP80SuD/aHqHQpac0o f4EaKIA4/dsZ6U/Bx4dNQMpmw0+5qxtJbGovgh0xf8Oh4DkMMJp0tBS5hpihhLvTfJnOpBL gh4uy1LoE2XKfYcE3aL3Q== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:UYcTmPK2SKY=:5vUta5O+iXGx2Wv3v1knXX tC1POlT5jD8sMSq5MDJ8nm8F/Rd7IhOhrdzzxHQk8TS1W8/ahwo4pQbHhBXXXENLWJD4FmqgW Q5FYVlO+dspBBYbE/RNslsi/xZuIpmYNfk7PFpLe42gPHd9V0dPT2PRbwrVRrTkVu2Qt+Z2/6 LYy7JTDjOwNa1WQUDZmtHEXGoicODx2ppyC2LgaNcja6mfQjmHXfzWZtjfOFLBfzc6DVkf/o8 n/y+aKQuJpHlHl+En97GTEtIdooZ6sbhV7rY087Y9k3lj4ZWXuVLTVzc/GLECqOFyfkiEPsdd /zVjJPVshEK49pc+D/32XRYu5sTk9GLIHt8aDo29p8lyb9Mzu7KpTRTaJLL50zvO27dEXRhFk Aoque13UOsANJGKc1iJKCUjOg7XAoYIC0qZRJa33WkkBxkZZjWhKYUTeqKEQoPjnJtPNNFccM liOIb/+oD3dqRZEokRHo3ZvIg5KDu8g+wcOvqbmeb1D/pX3z2UjG+mSJvycnKKs0pLms8iLE7 gaw20oGH6TtsKUyUZ3TMWLfubW17h5XsXRSFS6X8lVqCFaedKv34IhawYSck412zTA4oAsCT0 1EEaW2ZiWTrFBLv3D+pJUD6aoa/JIaWuTwiVJoHsMrcsO3hK2N1rJQTj7ZKbqW6/QOaFIetsl GKN90YmsFdto7m48721lrpOoY3ksoH8ByCDKu3D5/HfTp18MkkkG0GuDaFL5pS1Pq2j0OwoQa dKR1xd4ugrKge7eGw9GzMoh9I7dJ8RVNvRB1Uh1JzGoo5UVJOxqgXRSs/UQyezfhwg01+Pa2m Wsl1/JpbZbv3JtOiwyMRkYx8RMCXGYWXv5UuQmtjLYvWSCa7K+uCDfL05yDV5n0sTYLhD1fcQ IHtQdJz8oIBLVMjE6snMaR1xcIRwokVCjWs6tChAPKKyt2TZxXQd5yztgMe1o0DXBMxNWHakb oBMJyo7J/FqjVKTFS5ueUDw94Q8p9Tb9amPEy7CY+jRZCULeOxVunNzVqaztg/aG5GsvMpoZi 9P1V4RfZWbJvm+sRkYjZkYetS3E9cLKZSnMAuBlhKouGBrq0bjLB45Wxg4XFgdWAp3JgFjip6 OSdhshKk0HmJgDq8IJ3AzjwBcNfM9wdmurjZSlw9bKnvZrWavrv24Kp2y840y45SPEbkpC8zD bfDf9N3OajIMnclR5/Rp1SuO7/fYmNg+ailzE1GQRNF9hQxcnvwm5HToA3KIu4hKcKp0BFa+7 +XRg81LFgyELkwd7ev1Ed7X751x5dEANipbmDSQ== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , larsi@gnus.org, stephen.berman@gmx.net, 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> That's right. It may be blocks, sectors, KiB, or baker's >> dozens. There may be ways to influence the unit (switches, >> environment variables) but not portably, and there is no way of >> telling what effects such efforts take, if any. > > Doesn't the result come from get-free-disk-space, which calls > file-system-info, which reports in known units? Or am I confused? file-system-info does not give you information about used file sizes in a directory. Something which I've missed also in Tramp. Best regards, Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 08 03:45:32 2020 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Oct 2020 07:45:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58627 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQQcG-0003CR-9M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 03:45:32 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f52.google.com ([209.85.221.52]:44152) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQQcC-0003CA-4z for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 03:45:31 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f52.google.com with SMTP id t9so5415857wrq.11 for <36729@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 00:45:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version; bh=8EVpiBT0PFKxPQRiCeXRK0URFrE7vo+MlEOCUczxIW8=; b=nQMBqzDDuaEjx/v0V1n++kgWKitHJLYRM7OAe3WPicoteD8d2n2k8TiNMLcXfclFcl MN0nx1grK75DMhUWlAUgwRQIJgdqJOtaem5vLqOieQcsWApBW6SFxoJOr8Fh6oYa17Y6 4NqvXpYVADnXLqAUW8ulmNdHsuSrxJRttzZYv0xOrslytHsFUWKKUhnsAIe7Q6gmOM/q 02wvUzcaaHjJN9mESw6f86fm9K7MXETjzKgnCd/mvdX65xfivRHroMXkvGwZWUbxJFn5 ietJGQSjFDxg8JuHnjoSuKESGvwZRUEyr8COckjlkIH6U0wIe1jv+UYTi0Z+d8ltorGE cAlg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=8EVpiBT0PFKxPQRiCeXRK0URFrE7vo+MlEOCUczxIW8=; b=r2I+Lsa7+zb4rIpvmanxaaR9ekcF6yBJm3VY/e16rhkm5aspJI3vGA5uG+NxQOc6aP rjrJ9QjH2vLczdzGDBjA6KN5R5fGMJfb+Jzg+qu3m0i55NQUOq18kSSaep7Utpi/caLt W+deO9B0YYGKwZaT7nuMf5F77MFJcl8SffEvKZLAVTj54iH4qZE28bD1stOzSI3JW2HP ouvPl70gSBtmB9uTbsgTGNTjpyixIkEYp4xcczfjA7G7Ivau7xCfVYeg+6b2mgVKirin 2+ec5dIebsGWq73lf/htoF5Uu275QZ2mSwfrv4OqffbNkRuzpnZxNTXS6ja+Xz59ZfdM cKZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531OtCUSCdaHZHwnU2OxYqR2XaVd2T0cHrRAsS8tZAT0d0mkpXA6 Wi0wm5RYOZOgIHAxLcPkMzf+Lz43OR4ZOw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwDQWWwrSwfWjAOOCyRtvtvJwDgPAh+FnEzzpi1MT6VK9FkHzSZ7UmKthdW26pDGrCMzK0gRA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:ce12:: with SMTP id p18mr7846432wrn.52.1602143121924; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 00:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rpluim-mac ([2a01:e34:ecfc:a860:683b:48ba:13fe:a576]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c130sm5858068wma.17.2020.10.08.00.45.20 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 08 Oct 2020 00:45:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Michael Albinus Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> <871rjyn5hn.fsf@gnus.org> <87mu2hen02.fsf@gmx.net> <87r1qa4pct.fsf@gnus.org> <838scia2zu.fsf@gnu.org> <84AFB7F6-D925-4552-A165-927996C1C7B6@acm.org> <83zh4y8c7c.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8le868n.fsf@gnu.org> <87v9fmxa4o.fsf@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2020 09:45:20 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87v9fmxa4o.fsf@gmx.de> (Michael Albinus's message of "Wed, 07 Oct 2020 18:40:23 +0200") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , Eli Zaretskii , stephen.berman@gmx.net, larsi@gnus.org, 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Wed, 07 Oct 2020 18:40:23 +0200, Michael Albinus said: Michael> Eli Zaretskii writes: >>> That's right. It may be blocks, sectors, KiB, or baker's >>> dozens. There may be ways to influence the unit (switches, >>> environment variables) but not portably, and there is no way of >>> telling what effects such efforts take, if any. >> >> Doesn't the result come from get-free-disk-space, which calls >> file-system-info, which reports in known units? Or am I confused? Michael> file-system-info does not give you information about used file sizes in Michael> a directory. Something which I've missed also in Tramp. Tramp could use 'ls-lisp' maybe? Robert -- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 08 04:37:40 2020 Received: (at 36729) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Oct 2020 08:37:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58690 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQRQh-0004Wv-Qg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 04:37:40 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:44565) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQRQe-0004Wf-Jt for 36729@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 04:37:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1602146246; bh=hC/Vea9SQ2JggUeSp8Ccc62OFaKeQRq0cBzIblNQ2Rk=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=VGeazlHIgweBjf24/VfzcqLAjrf2kwOC+CojQzvlgktMHrr56OL8xhL6RtAmRVpsD IAStB0a12H5APsiZrwFTGz4f3wfQJabP8eVcxAXXuFw9Koizv9rGj7Hg65vtf+S8hn Nb0htPj8g8zwDA1e7PTnSrMRLbKV/XEKtOdJX41w= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([213.220.145.211]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N6siz-1kR5wn1yGt-018Mna; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 10:37:26 +0200 From: Michael Albinus To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#36729: 27.0.50; Unclear total in directory listing References: <048FD91B-CDA0-4444-8F6F-C5B2F5C595CD@acm.org> <83k1ceusn1.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgr2887n.fsf@gmx.net> <871rjyn5hn.fsf@gnus.org> <87mu2hen02.fsf@gmx.net> <87r1qa4pct.fsf@gnus.org> <838scia2zu.fsf@gnu.org> <84AFB7F6-D925-4552-A165-927996C1C7B6@acm.org> <83zh4y8c7c.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8le868n.fsf@gnu.org> <87v9fmxa4o.fsf@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2020 10:37:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Robert Pluim's message of "Thu, 08 Oct 2020 09:45:20 +0200") Message-ID: <87blhdcdvf.fsf@gmx.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:G+4BQxwKaBR+1k5YpvCGSSI0hRZgfan9aTb9GcD3AAMwmyqCSiN ivC6vR2YlDvxlFOznmZySlTBSCJcYvAXAgbEluZ0twkdiQ9I6VpFfoq5x2tm/y7owtGF8qV olWT3m/O0GH5/JDQIomL7CGzu4tq5l8XyhIjuspfQ2Hm/swoMkiIrPiEbS8mN5lABVQAZ1B VU+0NRDtfJ0wZvpLEjgJw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:hwFLStBe+SU=:a1hgN//Ufw6V/G6cKd9BOM UNthoKPPMUjtiJ5MLJApZ+rHfSucIvFRVw44J5xR3S+J33v9MkH4ixGY/mI8zyb8wOcSAPo8W ppBQgR2yJE2dCwaK9ScZ48zQz9qCuw/P+5u3+R7vSIyBWiFU1Cdnie3gzP9075DGRrolU7Fff Pps/Tdl2Q8vVjtn2vdgSsI1k6oXF8+OVLYiPOSsrcGxPdYEUO86AZu+sDmsGcOBA/J3PNp3iB UzDsm00rv/r3yXSnknsdojdJavaaFkN5TUzlDeJts6TO7/5mC367kuaLMU3BVnnZmsW7pAXFL 3/ezOGZvCcci6ZkJYz5pq3tDY2kSEDvCrMxK0yG2GQ8v4k4ayLmZiFaelh9L+sOX6Q9gNEerR 5+fl+eORWGC0KQROsx7bQfxPOnpnzLUiphguyUZeFx0Q1gKTA0kwBRtRvkZf/XXH30kW6mMAI qsumrdt5daAab3CbbMWI6CFz7uFVK/v4Me+pmZQ3yZNEvN6T4FR893GjZsvuy4j64pH8ba9tf rWant5bAhxJYwpmUC6bcxZOtiQUL99cvc/xvNyW8R1D8eCd1+LfTDYUqbM33iwImQkM2zlmU1 Q3KjidOYHoV4w8POPeJmIphSdeIy1Tk0pOrQwshrzfNE82v6vvdJxbe8CLzCX60x8pT+/dJp+ Nhxy99zZBRHCgvk3hmPSHGSxHEkmT5VHiApLmp4VSFeLmF+IjUol1MQ8RfSPFaTRSNGcw09gU N8Ayg/0IQJm9s15an486DC1i3UUgfcU7t5j2j0SHz2tBeEcrR7lELptd3E0m3ozSbEKCTHqrU wPZybdHbyH/YMrO1yW3+Z5fPdFwbkjFvN/7tDML+2rNeBRfoplFtt8WQOoC+UP31kThLgx7fA m14nP344b5AY5YvoZvOhtUy5FQZYcrTScXfSkYzderSWsxzHV16AkFHirpCEftN6Ei4ck1Q8C PGrtlMRga3BfkBE7rmlKcBDJ+uStSP5vt67PkhRsVkHkEq0c02N5MKm4Nc0dQvo2P5nRPid4b SlW7DqJsAtZbtJGZgxCwrT5FW6lPNEFPYOBynUt5S+C0zxBXBFvXlP0aKQKKQnVxWz7KI1YpD byctXWQEvFvPjyXhWbhBPryKYByAsFU8QKbPXqZpmFH51g2JwZP8qb9fAX8AJdjN2++JJAz8v t3LqUAyUQJ49gJreqoO8s6/t9SsPRVuAuQKc3jWoMNia+NdxPcOJ/Tk0aqmtdFFhpf+7lAQzv OvFk234Yk9cARAZq2W62C3tq6RsFi8EAzt9hBeg== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36729 Cc: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , Eli Zaretskii , stephen.berman@gmx.net, larsi@gnus.org, 36729@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Robert Pluim writes: > Michael> file-system-info does not give you information about used > Michael> file sizes in > Michael> a directory. Something which I've missed also in Tramp. > > Tramp could use 'ls-lisp' maybe? Tramp does, sometimes. But due to the inferior performance, it is rather used as fallback. > Robert Best regards, Michael. 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Content preview: forcemerge 44273 36729 Content analysis details: (2.0 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [91.136.10.221 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 2.0 BLANK_SUBJECT Subject is present but empty 0.0 TVD_SPACE_RATIO No description available. -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager forcemerge 44273 36729 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 20 16:32:01 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2021 21:32:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56377 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l2L57-0006IM-AE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 16:32:01 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49400) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l2L55-0006Cz-Nn for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 16:32:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=kWe57y35C2W+NYlTWDqkM0rIQa0ajOYt7Szpmdx1fOU=; b=PqjNIIHJMvC4JncU4h/i+XGUWw cl2OIHUIL/Ngl6IwABp2IN7SnF40LHPj9RpcxFjHIXK5KwMrI7bMJjQ4Gn3S012d99IujGB+PDqpb U/NIXn/ub7JVcF+REMvGOPLwVt2MQ5VnTeqkmA6HKq0PInpnhz6CS1ggsYtWktchpVPc=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l2L4x-000473-HO for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 22:31:53 +0100 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 22:31:50 +0100 Message-Id: <87h7nbl2gp.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #44273 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: tags 44273 - wontfix quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 44273 - wontfix quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 11 08:35:12 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Oct 2021 12:35:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56972 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mZuWO-0006l4-9C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 08:35:12 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f45.google.com ([209.85.216.45]:40485) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mZuWM-0006kZ-6D for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 08:35:10 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f45.google.com with SMTP id pf6-20020a17090b1d8600b0019fa884ab85so14612819pjb.5 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 05:35:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=IM6JYsG5Ycg03o42s9mlU3LW+xYcFmK+YX5VUBSe1YU=; b=Wb4vLh7/rNP4VQoZ7YHjLWKvFkr0yGus2+wg4kUoPqanl4+5bUz19JQj08rxVIrxR8 S300qlVpo8sjJFJPy7KXFs09CfxDQeqbgnVd8jSf0aOVPbqb17PvWFDvl3Rv/jxoz74d V7Kh6Aygc8Hd57kqewwjiigpb4ZS6Ysac37QDlJm2KuCuam7/Cg9vrVxYH/h/S/PLZwn np06OXP1lUV3qIqjjKWobEEz9TX7rFKXM0SLeG+pJUZp6P0y34hduIbDamxjDN20qE1F PUJ9/dvJZQPX/UBrqQPJvpJY6fgSCAXEvgEyr7KogJkl67rujyHWAf4oM+wDI/gJhlHf bS1g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Q0DcN7wp4R9xiuBsO1xtsbA1xQYawuMt8Y+mkcoaZA/tPKQf9 amSZ9YGR0eocHlh2MsbKGMfBqMp8duCqNHe0/RTvYzW8 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxSj8zTOFZ9L8dAAM4F3TClD+rTUU1hJ8vTwlAtynGm+VdmX5LD/xYOJkcllCUvhAHM4tFQ5qYSEUPNF44va3k= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:5583:: with SMTP id c3mr29163982pji.133.1633955704639; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 05:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 05:35:04 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: =?UTF-8?B?PDhDRTQ2OURDLUEyNjQtNEU4MC04MjMyLTBFRUZGRTgyNTBBM0BhY20ub3JnPiAo?= =?UTF-8?B?Ik1hdHRpYXMgRW5nZGVnw6VyZCIncyBtZXNzYWdlIG9mICJTdW4sIDEgTm92IDIwMjAgMTc6Mzc6MzEg?= =?UTF-8?B?KzAxMDAiKQ==?= References: <87sg9zgchl.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <9FFBEBAF-FBB3-4AC9-950E-70B3927032F9@acm.org> <87h7qevdfc.fsf@gnus.org> <83pn52cr8x.fsf@gnu.org> <83eelicpee.fsf@gnu.org> <83zh45bt8q.fsf@gnu.org> <875z6sgqvh.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83eelgb00t.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6w4lzh5.fsf@gnus.org> <837dr8aqog.fsf@gnu.org> <87sg9wkkk6.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6w2qlqc.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <878sblgvdn.fsf@gnus.org> <329AE9D0-14BB-477E-AA7F-FC5852F67A7E@acm.org> <83tuu9f6ha.fsf@gnu.org> <8DED7A50-7DF4-40EB-8515-6AD24A64AF8E@acm.org> <83k0v5f52w.fsf@gnu.org> <8CE469DC-A264-4E80-8232-0EEFFE8250A3@acm.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 05:35:04 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#44273: "total used in directory 19 available 5.2 GiB" To: =?UTF-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bcc: control@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control Cc: rms@gnu.org, juri@linkov.net, larsi@gnus.org, jidanni@jidanni.org, Eli Zaretskii , 44273@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) tags 44273 + wontfix close 44273 thanks Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > 1 nov. 2020 kl. 16.51 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > >> It isn't: that value shows the total disk space allocation, i.e. the >> file sizes are rounded up to the nearest disk block size. > > It's often not even the disk block size (frequently 512 or 1024 byte rega= rdless of the block size), and in any case that rounding does not add any v= aluable information. > >>> but the 'file size' of a subdirectory is practically impossible to inte= rpret in a useful way. >> >> We are not talking about file sizes, we are talking about the "total >> NNN" part. > > The 'file size' of all displayed subdirectory entries are included in tha= t number, which makes it even more difficult to interpret. > > If the size field of each displayed entry could be accurately located and > parsed, then that could be used to compose a more useful and defensible '= total' > number. However this does not appear likely given the variation in locale= s, > implementations and user-supplied options. > > Given the opposition to removing the field, I propose that this bug be cl= osed with wontfix (again). Let's use our time more productively. OK, let's do that. From unknown Sun Jul 27 03:19:47 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 12:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator