From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 18 08:21:14 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jul 2019 12:21:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53527 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ho5PN-0005Bn-9S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 08:21:14 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:40296) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ho5PJ-0005Bd-2k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 08:21:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39794) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ho5PG-0006xs-0e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 08:21:08 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ho5PD-0007Hc-4v for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 08:21:05 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:38949) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ho5PC-0006ox-PO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 08:21:03 -0400 Received: from protected.rcdrun.com (localhost [::1]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 05:20:28 -0700 id 0000000000020364.000000005D30640C.00002074 Received: from localhost (protected.rcdrun.com [local]) by protected.rcdrun.com (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPA id b6b5bcde for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 12:20:27 +0000 (UTC) From: Jean Louis To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 14:20:16 +0200 Message-ID: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 217.170.207.13 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) Hello, I am using Maildirs on my system. And I have 47682 various maildirs, each belong to one email in the ordered way like: ~/Maildir/email1@example.com ~/Maildir/email2@example.com ~/Maildir/email3@example.com ~/Maildir/email4@example.com and so on. Gnus offers nice interface and functions which I would like to use while reading email. Even though I like MH-E and Rmail more, they both do not offer Maildir support. I have made settings as following. '(gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnmaildir "" (directory "/home/data1/protected/Maildir/")))) '(gnus-select-method '(nnimap "my.imap")) Now, I do not need to susbcribe to 47682 Maildirs at once, as under ~/Maildir I have cur, new, tmp and that is the Maildir I would like to read as only one. However, after setting the above, Gnus started doing something since yesterday, and I still do not know what it is, it is maybe indexing or setting up something, I do not know, process is still running for many hours. I think that this is bug. What I think is that Gnus is now recursively visiting all Maildirs instead of using just the main one. Maybe there shall be option for the user to customize Gnus so that it stops doing this recursively. I have filed this as bug. And my other question is, is there a way to quickly access Maildir/email2@example.com by using Gnus? Some function maybe to just write the email address or fetch it from database, and to open the Maildir with nnmaildir? Jean In GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 10, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars) of 2019-07-16 built on protected.rcdrun.com Repository revision: 288e83ae00fcf6da8064ecb5a8ffaec202c5e9ec Repository branch: master System Description: Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre Recent messages: Auto-saving...done Mark saved where search started [2 times] Mark set [2 times] Auto-saving...done Auto-saving...done Auto-saving...done next-line: End of buffer Auto-saving...done Auto-saving...done Making completion list... 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/package/text/emacs-2019-07-16/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/net/sasl-ntlm Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message rmc puny rfc822 mml mml-sec epa derived epg gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs text-property-search mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils misearch multi-isearch term disp-table ehelp shell vc-git diff-mode rcd/business org-id org-element avl-tree generator orgtbl-ascii-plot org-table org ob ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-exp org-macro org-footnote org-src ob-comint ob-keys org-pcomplete pcomplete comint ansi-color ring org-list org-faces org-entities time-date noutline outline org-version ob-emacs-lisp ob-core ob-eval org-compat org-macs org-loaddefs format-spec find-func cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs dired-x dired dired-loaddefs rcd/utilities rcd/percentages rcd-db pq time-stamp helm easy-mmode edmacro kmacro helm-source helm-multi-match helm-lib async finder-inf gh-common marshal eieio-compat advice slime-autoloads cl tex-site info package easymenu epg-config url-handlers url-parse auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs eieio-loaddefs password-cache json subr-x map url-vars seq byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cconv cl-loaddefs cl-lib term/xterm xterm elec-pair tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core term/tty-colors frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 221847 12510) (symbols 48 19657 1) (strings 32 114835 33097) (string-bytes 1 3597790) (vectors 16 26220) (vector-slots 8 303693 7912) (floats 8 140 374) (intervals 56 609 0) (buffers 992 15)) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 18 15:00:37 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jul 2019 19:00:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54707 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoBdt-0005Mf-GN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 15:00:37 -0400 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:55790 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoBdr-0005MR-Ox for 36714@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 15:00:36 -0400 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CC527FA42A; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 19:00:27 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: Jean Louis Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 12:00:25 -0700 In-Reply-To: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> (Jean Louis's message of "Thu, 18 Jul 2019 14:20:16 +0200") Message-ID: <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: 36714@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Jean Louis writes: > Hello, > > I am using Maildirs on my system. And I have 47682 various maildirs, > each belong to one email in the ordered way like: > > ~/Maildir/email1@example.com > ~/Maildir/email2@example.com > ~/Maildir/email3@example.com > ~/Maildir/email4@example.com > > and so on. > > Gnus offers nice interface and functions which I would like to use > while reading email. Even though I like MH-E and Rmail more, they both > do not offer Maildir support. > > I have made settings as following. > > '(gnus-secondary-select-methods > '((nnmaildir "" > (directory "/home/data1/protected/Maildir/")))) > > '(gnus-select-method '(nnimap "my.imap")) > > Now, I do not need to susbcribe to 47682 Maildirs at once, as under > ~/Maildir I have cur, new, tmp and that is the Maildir I would like to > read as only one. > > However, after setting the above, Gnus started doing something since > yesterday, and I still do not know what it is, it is maybe indexing or > setting up something, I do not know, process is still running for many > hours. > > I think that this is bug. > > What I think is that Gnus is now recursively visiting all Maildirs > instead of using just the main one. I think you're right, and in a sense it is definitely a bug, but a lot of people have run into this and I've seen some saying "there's not much to be done". So that didn't sound very encouraging. Could you do M-x toggle-debug-on-quit, start up Gnus, let it hang for a bit, then do "C-g" and post the resulting backtrace here? It's fairly obvious what's going on, but it would be good to see the specifics. The nnmaildir servers keep track of their directory modtime, which is both set and read only once, in `nnmaildir-request-scan'. So at least it should be fairly easy to see what's happening there. Gnus doesn't save the modtimes, though -- perhaps a potential solution could involve saving the maildir modtimes in newsrc.eld. > And my other question is, is there a way to quickly access > Maildir/email2@example.com by using Gnus? Some function maybe to just > write the email address or fetch it from database, and to open the > Maildir with nnmaildir? I'm not entirely sure what you mean here, but one suggestion I have is to create four different nnmaildir select methods, one for each of your email addresses. I think that's how Gnus is expecting this sort of thing to be set up, and it might make it easier for you to access, as well. Eric From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 18 18:30:31 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jul 2019 22:30:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54768 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoEv0-0002Ni-Mo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:30:31 -0400 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:59686 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoEuy-0002NS-Lc for 36714@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:30:29 -0400 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1346FFA42A; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 20:03:35 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: Jean Louis Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 13:03:34 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> (Jean Louis's message of "Thu, 18 Jul 2019 21:43:11 +0200") Message-ID: <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: 36714@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 07/18/19 21:43 PM, Jean Louis wrote: > * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-18 21:01]: >> I think you're right, and in a sense it is definitely a bug, but a lot >> of people have run into this and I've seen some saying there's not much >> to be done. So that didn't sound very encouraging. >> >> Could you do M-x toggle-debug-on-quit, start up Gnus, let it hang for a >> bit, then do C-g and post the resulting backtrace here? It's fairly >> obvious what's going on, but it would be good to >> see the specifics. > > Debugger entered--Lisp error: (quit) > file-name-as-directory("/home/data1/protected/Maildir/info@codepink.org/.n...") > nnmaildir--scan("info@codepink.org" nil # 1913/47714 0xd41cb5> nil "/home/data1/protected/Maildir/" > directory-files) > nnmaildir-request-scan(find-new-groups "") > nnmaildir-request-list("") > nnmaildir-request-newgroups("Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:11:09 +0200" "") > gnus-request-newgroups("Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:11:09 +0200" (nnmaildir "" (directory "~/Maildir"))) > gnus-ask-server-for-new-groups() > gnus-find-new-newsgroups() > gnus-setup-news(nil nil nil) > #f(compiled-function () #)() > gnus-1(nil nil nil) > gnus(nil) > funcall-interactively(gnus nil) > call-interactively(gnus record nil) > command-execute(gnus record) > execute-extended-command(nil "gnus" "gnus") > funcall-interactively(execute-extended-command nil "gnus" "gnus") > call-interactively(execute-extended-command nil nil) > command-execute(execute-extended-command) I'm assuming your value of `gnus-check-new-newsgroups' is at its default of 'ask-server. Try setting it to nil. That will (should) at least prevent Gnus from scanning all the folders at startup. It doesn't solve the underlying problem, but in your case it might avoid it. >> The nnmaildir servers keep track of their directory modtime, which is >> both set and read only once, in `nnmaildir-request-scan'. So at least it >> should be fairly easy to see what's happening there. Gnus doesn't save >> the modtimes, though -- perhaps a potential solution could involve >> saving the maildir modtimes in newsrc.eld. > > Can that scan be turned off as option? > > I do not even need to list the folders. I just > want to read the main ~/Maildir folder but not > sub-Maildirs within Gnus. The final setup you want is to be subscribed to the main folder, but unsubscribed from the sub maildirs. The question is, can you get to the point where you can do that without first having Gnus spend hours scanning a million directories. Try the above fix and see if Gnus will show you all the other (unwanted) directories. [...] >> > And my other question is, is there a way to quickly access >> > Maildir/email2@example.com by using Gnus? Some function maybe to just >> > write the email address or fetch it from database, and to open the >> > Maildir with nnmaildir? >> >> I'm not entirely sure what you mean here, but one suggestion I have is >> to create four different nnmaildir select methods, one for each of your >> email addresses. I think that's how Gnus is expecting this sort of thing >> to be set up, and it might make it easier for you to access, as well. > > Would that be possible on the fly? > > For example I have email address on screen, find > it at point and quickly switch to Maildir by email > address? We're talking about two different things here. One is defining each of the maildirs as a separate server. So: '(gnus-secondary-select-methods '( (nnmaildir "email1" (directory "/home/data1/protected/Maildir/email1@example.com/")) (nnmaildir "email2" (directory "/home/data1/protected/Maildir/email2@example.com/")) (nnmaildir "email3" (directory "/home/data1/protected/Maildir/email3@example.com/")))) Etc. The other thing you want -- quick switching to a particular group -- can certainly be done, but will require a little bit of elisp. Something like (totally untested): (let* ((email (thing-at-point 'email)) (account (car-safe (split-string email "@")))) (when account (gnus-group-read-group nil t (concat "nnmaildir+" account ":INBOX")))) But see if you can get the servers functioning first! Eric From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 18 18:45:21 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jul 2019 22:45:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54804 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoF9M-0002mT-R2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:45:21 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:47445) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoF9L-0002m8-EM for 36714@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:45:20 -0400 Received: from protected.rcdrun.com (localhost [::1]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 13:48:42 -0700 id 0000000000020368.000000005D30DB2A.0000452F Received: from localhost (protected.rcdrun.com [local]) by protected.rcdrun.com (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPA id 5ad5996a; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 20:48:41 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 22:48:41 +0200 From: Jean Louis To: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs Message-ID: <20190718204841.GB6908@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: 36714@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-18 22:04]: > I'm assuming your value of `gnus-check-new-newsgroups' is at its default > of 'ask-server. Try setting it to nil. That will (should) at least > prevent Gnus from scanning all the folders at startup. It doesn't solve > the underlying problem, but in your case it > might avoid it. Thank you. I did try to set it to nil, it is set. However, "Checking new news" is seen and Gnus is working with hard disk. So it does not prevent it to scan Maildirs. gnus-select-method is a variable defined in ‘gnus.el’. Its value is (nnmaildir "" (directory "~/Maildir")) > The final setup you want is to be subscribed to the main folder, but > unsubscribed from the sub maildirs. The question is, can you get to the > point where you can do that without first having Gnus spend hours > scanning a million directories. Try the above fix and see if Gnus will > show you all the other (unwanted) directories. It does not work. > We're talking about two different things here. One is defining each of > the maildirs as a separate server. So: > > '(gnus-secondary-select-methods > '( > (nnmaildir email1 > (directory /home/data1/protected/Maildir/email1@example.com/)) > (nnmaildir email2 > (directory /home/data1/protected/Maildir/email2@example.com/)) > (nnmaildir email3 > (directory /home/data1/protected/Maildir/email3@example.com/)))) > > Etc. > > The other thing you want -- quick switching to a particular group -- can > certainly be done, but will require a little bit of elisp. Something > like (totally untested): > > (let* (( email "ss@rcdrrun.com") > (account (car-safe (split-string email @)))) > (when account > (gnus-group-read-group > nil t (concat nnmaildir+ account :INBOX)))) I will try that, but I cannot get it without starting to run or index whatever. I was thinking that gnus-secondary-select-methods has to be set before I start reading the folder, and that above looks that you think that way. I have tried this (let* ((email "person@example.com") (gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnmaildir email (directory (concat "~/Maildir/" email)))))) (gnus-group-read-group nil t (concat "nnmaildir+" email :INBOX))) but I am getting this below and I used real email address. Do I need to assign the group somehow? Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "Couldn’t activate group nnmaildir+person@example.com: No such group: nnmaildir+person@example.com") signal(error ("Couldn’t activate group nnmaildir+person@example.com: No such group: nnmaildir+person@example.com")) error("Couldn't activate group %s: %s" "nnmaildir+person@example.com" "No such group: nnmaildir+person@example.com") gnus-select-newsgroup("nnmaildir+person@example.com" nil :INBOX) gnus-summary-read-group-1("nnmaildir+person@example.com" nil t nil nil :INBOX) gnus-summary-read-group("nnmaildir+person@example.com" nil t nil nil nil :INBOX) gnus-group-read-group(nil t "nnmaildir+person@example.com" :INBOX) Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 18 19:51:58 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jul 2019 23:51:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54856 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoGBp-0004c1-Jw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 19:51:58 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:59217) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoGBn-0004bi-0U for 36714@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 19:51:55 -0400 Received: from protected.rcdrun.com (localhost [::1]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 12:43:12 -0700 id 0000000000020351.000000005D30CBD0.00003FE0 Received: from localhost (protected.rcdrun.com [local]) by protected.rcdrun.com (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPA id 1a7baadc; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 19:43:11 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 21:43:11 +0200 From: Jean Louis To: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs Message-ID: <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: 36714@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-18 21:01]: > I think you're right, and in a sense it is definitely a bug, but a lot > of people have run into this and I've seen some saying there's not much > to be done. So that didn't sound very encouraging. > > Could you do M-x toggle-debug-on-quit, start up Gnus, let it hang for a > bit, then do C-g and post the resulting backtrace here? It's fairly > obvious what's going on, but it would be good to > see the specifics. Debugger entered--Lisp error: (quit) file-name-as-directory("/home/data1/protected/Maildir/info@codepink.org/.n...") nnmaildir--scan("info@codepink.org" nil # nil "/home/data1/protected/Maildir/" directory-files) nnmaildir-request-scan(find-new-groups "") nnmaildir-request-list("") nnmaildir-request-newgroups("Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:11:09 +0200" "") gnus-request-newgroups("Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:11:09 +0200" (nnmaildir "" (directory "~/Maildir"))) gnus-ask-server-for-new-groups() gnus-find-new-newsgroups() gnus-setup-news(nil nil nil) #f(compiled-function () #)() gnus-1(nil nil nil) gnus(nil) funcall-interactively(gnus nil) call-interactively(gnus record nil) command-execute(gnus record) execute-extended-command(nil "gnus" "gnus") funcall-interactively(execute-extended-command nil "gnus" "gnus") call-interactively(execute-extended-command nil nil) command-execute(execute-extended-command) > The nnmaildir servers keep track of their directory modtime, which is > both set and read only once, in `nnmaildir-request-scan'. So at least it > should be fairly easy to see what's happening there. Gnus doesn't save > the modtimes, though -- perhaps a potential solution could involve > saving the maildir modtimes in newsrc.eld. Can that scan be turned off as option? I do not even need to list the folders. I just want to read the main ~/Maildir folder but not sub-Maildirs within Gnus. And then when at some point of time, when I need to access the Maildir folder I should be able to have function to give it folder directory and that folder is being read, and that I can view messages and reply to them. Any clues? I would like to have that feature from plain Emacs without extra packages, just to list, read Maildirs, refile Maildirs, and be able to reply. Does that functionality exists within Gnus or nnmaildir, even if not plainly visible? > > And my other question is, is there a way to quickly access > > Maildir/email2@example.com by using Gnus? Some function maybe to just > > write the email address or fetch it from database, and to open the > > Maildir with nnmaildir? > > I'm not entirely sure what you mean here, but one suggestion I have is > to create four different nnmaildir select methods, one for each of your > email addresses. I think that's how Gnus is expecting this sort of thing > to be set up, and it might make it easier for you to access, as well. Would that be possible on the fly? For example I have email address on screen, find it at point and quickly switch to Maildir by email address? Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 18 20:27:33 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2019 00:27:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54909 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoGkG-0007te-Or for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 20:27:33 -0400 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:33532 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoGkB-0007tJ-Pe for 36714@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 20:27:31 -0400 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 92AC7FA0E6; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 00:27:20 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: Jean Louis Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718204841.GB6908@protected.rcdrun.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 17:27:18 -0700 Message-ID: <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: 36714@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 07/18/19 22:48 PM, Jean Louis wrote: > * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-18 22:04]: >> I'm assuming your value of `gnus-check-new-newsgroups' is at its default >> of 'ask-server. Try setting it to nil. That will (should) at least >> prevent Gnus from scanning all the folders at startup. It doesn't solve >> the underlying problem, but in your case it >> might avoid it. > > Thank you. > > I did try to set it to nil, it is set. However, > "Checking new news" is seen and Gnus is working > with hard disk. > > So it does not prevent it to scan Maildirs. I guess that's not too surprising. If Gnus has never actually been able to get off the ground, it's probably doing an initial scan of some sort. > gnus-select-method is a variable defined in =E2=80=98gnus.el=E2=80=99. > Its value is (nnmaildir "" (directory "~/Maildir")) > >> The final setup you want is to be subscribed to the main folder, but >> unsubscribed from the sub maildirs. The question is, can you get to the >> point where you can do that without first having Gnus spend hours >> scanning a million directories. Try the above fix and see if Gnus will >> show you all the other (unwanted) directories. > > It does not work. > >> We're talking about two different things here. One is defining each of >> the maildirs as a separate server. So: >> >> '(gnus-secondary-select-methods >> '( >> (nnmaildir email1 >> (directory /home/data1/protected/Maildir/email1@example.com/)) >> (nnmaildir email2 >> (directory /home/data1/protected/Maildir/email2@example.com/)) >> (nnmaildir email3 >> (directory /home/data1/protected/Maildir/email3@example.com/)))) >> >> Etc. >> >> The other thing you want -- quick switching to a particular group -- can >> certainly be done, but will require a little bit of elisp. Something >> like (totally untested): >> >> (let* (( email "ss@rcdrrun.com") >> (account (car-safe (split-string email @)))) >> (when account >> (gnus-group-read-group >> nil t (concat nnmaildir+ account :INBOX)))) > > I will try that, but I cannot get it without > starting to run or index whatever. > > I was thinking that gnus-secondary-select-methods > has to be set before I start reading the folder, > and that above looks that you think that way. Yes, you should try setting your secondary select methods to one-per-account before you try any of the rest of this. > I have tried this > > (let* ((email "person@example.com") > (gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnmaildir email (directory (concat "~/= Maildir/" email)))))) > (gnus-group-read-group nil t (concat "nnmaildir+" email :INBOX))) > > > but I am getting this below and I used real email > address. Do I need to assign the group somehow? First of all, this isn't going to work until you've got Gnus into a basic functioning state -- ie, it's already done a successful scan of your nnmaildir backends. I would leave this part aside until you've got Gnus working normally. (Also you can't reference a variable inside a quoted form without using backquoting and unquoting, and let-binding `gnus-secondary-select-methods' is asking for trouble, and :INBOX needs to be a string, but really don't bother messing with this at all until Gnus is functioning.) Second of all... unfortunately I don't know this code well enough to figure it out without sitting down with a chunk of time. So far as I can tell, nnmaildir scans the maildir directories using `directory-files', which by itself is very quick. Presumably what's slow is registering all the messages inside the directories, and I don't immediately see a way of preventing that. A dirty hack you might try is: temporarily remove the other directories from one of the maildir accounts, let Gnus index that, and then (while making sure that `gnus-check-new-newsgroups' is nil) move the other directories back in. It's possible that Gnus will ignore them, but I'm really not sure -- I would check with just one of your four accounts first. Until I or someone else has time to dig deeper, that's the best I can suggest, sorry... Eric From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 19 02:16:00 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2019 06:16:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55004 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoMBT-0008Fg-Vz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 02:16:00 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:34793) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoMBS-0008FT-Bs for 36714@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 02:15:58 -0400 Received: from protected.rcdrun.com (localhost [::1]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 23:15:51 -0700 id 0000000000020351.000000005D316017.00005F15 Received: from localhost (protected.rcdrun.com [local]) by protected.rcdrun.com (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPA id 12875f4c; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 06:15:50 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 08:15:50 +0200 From: Jean Louis To: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs Message-ID: <20190719061550.GB8310@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718204841.GB6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Organization: Thetabiz Corporation User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: 36714@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-19 02:27]: > First of all, this isn't going to work until you've got Gnus into a > basic functioning state -- ie, it's already done a successful scan of > your nnmaildir backends. Thank you for helping. Yet it is not usable for me. I have too many maildirs and I was thinking Gnus would read it as maildirs, instead it started creating .nnmaildir directories inside with copies of those emails for its own way of processing. So Gnus does not handle maildirs by standard, it does something on its own, this is not what I need. Sadly manual did not say that nnmaildir would do that kind of things, it has spent gigabytes of space without notice or warning to the user or choice being offered. There is one package `maildir` I will see if that can be improved for my needs. Thanks Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 19 13:23:43 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2019 17:23:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56514 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoWbf-0000SE-3E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:23:43 -0400 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:51666 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoWbd-0000S0-Fn for 36714@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:23:41 -0400 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5BAF1FA42A; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 17:23:34 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: Jean Louis Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718204841.GB6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190719061550.GB8310@protected.rcdrun.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 10:23:32 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20190719061550.GB8310@protected.rcdrun.com> (Jean Louis's message of "Fri, 19 Jul 2019 08:15:50 +0200") Message-ID: <87o91q6iqz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: 36714@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 07/19/19 08:15 AM, Jean Louis wrote: > * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-19 02:27]: >> First of all, this isn't going to work until you've got Gnus into a >> basic functioning state -- ie, it's already done a successful scan of >> your nnmaildir backends. > > Thank you for helping. Yet it is not usable for > me. I have too many maildirs and I was thinking > Gnus would read it as maildirs, instead it started > creating .nnmaildir directories inside with copies > of those emails for its own way of processing. Yeah, I don't think there's any way around the creation of the .nnmaildir directories, at least not given the way Gnus currently functions. They aren't actually copies of the emails -- just vectors of headers for each mail -- but obviously if you've got a lot of mail they still take up a lot of space. Sorry Gnus won't work out! Eric From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 19 13:31:49 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2019 17:31:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56519 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoWjU-0000gF-UA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:31:49 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:39369) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoWjS-0000g0-LU for 36714@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:31:47 -0400 Received: from protected.rcdrun.com (localhost [::1]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 10:31:39 -0700 id 0000000000020351.000000005D31FE7B.0000031C Received: from localhost (protected.rcdrun.com [local]) by protected.rcdrun.com (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPA id 618cb74a; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 17:31:38 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 19:31:38 +0200 From: Jean Louis To: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs Message-ID: <20190719173138.GC31670@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718204841.GB6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190719061550.GB8310@protected.rcdrun.com> <87o91q6iqz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87o91q6iqz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Organization: GOLDIVANTI LP User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: 36714@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-19 19:24]: > > On 07/19/19 08:15 AM, Jean Louis wrote: > > * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-19 02:27]: > >> First of all, this isn't going to work until you've got Gnus into a > >> basic functioning state -- ie, it's already done a successful scan of > >> your nnmaildir backends. > > > > Thank you for helping. Yet it is not usable for > > me. I have too many maildirs and I was thinking > > Gnus would read it as maildirs, instead it started > > creating .nnmaildir directories inside with copies > > of those emails for its own way of processing. > > Yeah, I don't think there's any way around the creation of the > .nnmaildir directories, at least not given the way Gnus currently > functions. They aren't actually copies of the emails -- just vectors of > headers for each mail -- but obviously if you've got a lot of mail they > still take up a lot of space. The solution I found is to bind my Read Mail menu to eshell-visual-command mutt. Thank you for being helpful. The bug shall be closed. But it would be good that Emacs has Maildir reading capabiliies. As it is just a file system with messages. Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 19 16:05:36 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2019 20:05:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56566 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoZ8K-000595-Af for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 16:05:36 -0400 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:54690 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoZ8E-00058X-9y; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 16:05:32 -0400 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43064FA0E6; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 18:49:18 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: Jean Louis Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718204841.GB6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190719061550.GB8310@protected.rcdrun.com> <87o91q6iqz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190719173138.GC31670@protected.rcdrun.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 11:49:16 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20190719173138.GC31670@protected.rcdrun.com> (Jean Louis's message of "Fri, 19 Jul 2019 19:31:38 +0200") Message-ID: <87blxp7tcj.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: 36714-done@debbugs.gnu.org, 36714@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 07/19/19 19:31 PM, Jean Louis wrote: > * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-19 19:24]: >> >> On 07/19/19 08:15 AM, Jean Louis wrote: >> > * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-19 02:27]: >> >> First of all, this isn't going to work until you've got Gnus into a >> >> basic functioning state -- ie, it's already done a successful scan of >> >> your nnmaildir backends. >> > >> > Thank you for helping. Yet it is not usable for >> > me. I have too many maildirs and I was thinking >> > Gnus would read it as maildirs, instead it started >> > creating .nnmaildir directories inside with copies >> > of those emails for its own way of processing. >> >> Yeah, I don't think there's any way around the creation of the >> .nnmaildir directories, at least not given the way Gnus currently >> functions. They aren't actually copies of the emails -- just vectors of >> headers for each mail -- but obviously if you've got a lot of mail they >> still take up a lot of space. > > The solution I found is to bind my Read Mail menu > to eshell-visual-command mutt. > > Thank you for being helpful. > > The bug shall be closed. Closing now. > But it would be good that Emacs has Maildir > reading capabiliies. As it is just a file system > with messages. I agree! Perhaps at some point we'll figure out a way for Gnus to handle enormous maildirs -- I hope so. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 22 04:34:28 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2019 08:34:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59924 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpTm7-0005Zv-Vq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 04:34:28 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f68.google.com ([209.85.128.68]:54984) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpTm6-0005Zi-IF for 36714@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 04:34:27 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f68.google.com with SMTP id p74so34210806wme.4 for <36714@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 01:34:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd-ie.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=wJu2h0oCQermJo399VR+YnxLD2T8CrgnunkoQrRByYQ=; b=UiOQYRIOtsOXtxN3VcHpAm1NX6z350gl15q0MlKwpVz07+Xb8UeQx/nVSp0tMtAesA e4DkCGnSZf6JWxZ6Zz+Ewl+JGUFBRWyTOAQMjNFWLJummZ0nR8dGQpZlBpfDO25iE1AF h30cHwBUSDkTL2BHC24zQ7XuyRQ1D73q26bGcO9tTx4gCF6qlLP/ClHBuQojtiXis5S4 CTVb54zVNEcAaTOak0NkNTBeDt4BoGgOwRAZsC7JOtCmx7TckG/99CQpOOUemZLgbvI6 JWNXVsNGO7/8t4o30LhUsJ40bR4IcLj7ffrQeesxu5fYD2MA1ubYxtxW3wjn2HyXeyf/ TKdw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=wJu2h0oCQermJo399VR+YnxLD2T8CrgnunkoQrRByYQ=; b=DkVamnVkUs7O5xOzqmbgBfr4GxQ1kU8BanhUnnH+2YA2TOb4ATNe/oNcN6qYRJzcnl 4hfDqhS8kzT4rVdvTPKW03HMCPec26tMrkPQptBcSyjOqnj+UxSZ/f3gxP5tehRiFz42 BhAwpnsHscQQ2NMMRdXRlzLYzgonT4sjR4AD6sl6ti3SkQ9ZxRhfXvzeKM+j8Tlkf//G A+JE1GEWcBauuB95gjgoZ+KIBNGLnGMkVFsFtsYmpYl5Xfc0uB6V+Po/t1qq6PdmZOJ7 aAgo5qV9NLQxLMXhyrvWS4qMA6g6/EUnN3G1ZCb3jfNTrJDj7vuINkfoG06ypa5AlMGD bb4w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUEPd/gLuDzJhDYCoRBz1c6m+OyosAebiDaYVqBmpO+6Z/kKWpT wbCuPTbPPRSN1h/ru1zN9oSJBQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx6Vvyd6Ez41pjd5d8RxPPeqstoAmVzd+oizOI0RoRDi8XFzsSEAHLxsywMpofU3I2cwKFzNA== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:2c41:: with SMTP id s62mr62582155wms.8.1563784460681; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 01:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2a02:8084:20e2:c380:1f68:7ff5:120d:64e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e3sm34833556wrt.93.2019.07.22.01.34.19 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 22 Jul 2019 01:34:19 -0700 (PDT) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" To: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718204841.GB6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 09:34:14 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> (Eric Abrahamsen's message of "Thu, 18 Jul 2019 17:27:18 -0700") Message-ID: <87tvbe4ge1.fsf@tcd.ie> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: 36714@debbugs.gnu.org, Jean Louis X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eric Abrahamsen writes: > Second of all... unfortunately I don't know this code well enough to > figure it out without sitting down with a chunk of time. So far as I can > tell, nnmaildir scans the maildir directories using `directory-files', > which by itself is very quick. Presumably what's slow is registering all > the messages inside the directories, and I don't immediately see a way > of preventing that. Would it be possible to do custom directory filtering in the 'directory-files' virtual server setting of the nnmaildir backend? -- Basil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 22 04:44:31 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2019 08:44:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59933 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpTvr-0005qE-Ct for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 04:44:31 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:51243) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpTvp-0005py-5U for 36714@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 04:44:29 -0400 Received: from protected.rcdrun.com (localhost [::1]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 01:44:22 -0700 id 0000000000020343.000000005D357766.00004399 Received: from localhost (protected.rcdrun.com [local]) by protected.rcdrun.com (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPA id 68c0b6fe; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 08:44:21 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 10:44:21 +0200 From: Jean Louis To: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs Message-ID: <20190722084421.GA4571@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718204841.GB6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190719061550.GB8310@protected.rcdrun.com> <87o91q6iqz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87o91q6iqz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: 36714@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-19 19:24]: > > Thank you for helping. Yet it is not usable for > > me. I have too many maildirs and I was thinking > > Gnus would read it as maildirs, instead it started > > creating .nnmaildir directories inside with copies > > of those emails for its own way of processing. > > Yeah, I don't think there's any way around the creation of the > .nnmaildir directories, at least not given the way Gnus currently > functions. They aren't actually copies of the emails -- just vectors of > headers for each mail -- but obviously if you've got a lot of mail they > still take up a lot of space. If they are not copies, they took as much space as original emails. That is opposite and contradictory to what Maildir is supposed to be. nnmaildir is thus not described well enough in the Gnus manual, it is bug in itself. When somebody mentions "Maildir" that means managing emails in Maildir folders, and not making indexes or vectors inside of those Maildir folders, taking up gigabytes of spaces and basically endangering integrity of files of the user. Thus that behavior of nnmaildir is bug. One shall explain it very well in Gnus manual that nnmaildir is not managing Maildir folders but rather using Maildir folders to make indexes, vectors, having some kind of news overlay on top of Maildir folders. And one shall mention the limit, as it simple does not work over certain number of Maildirs. I do not know how many, as I do have many maildirs. It is unusable for me. The package in MELPA "maildir" by Nic Ferrier http://github.com/nicferrier/emacs-maildir shows that it is trivial to make Maildir reading and I am using it sometimes. True Maildir access is simple, not complex. Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 22 13:21:32 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2019 17:21:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33571 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpc0B-0004Nw-OO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:21:31 -0400 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:46022 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpc09-0004Nj-ST for 36714@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:21:30 -0400 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0ED70FA023; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 17:21:21 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718204841.GB6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87tvbe4ge1.fsf@tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 10:21:20 -0700 In-Reply-To: <87tvbe4ge1.fsf@tcd.ie> (Basil L. Contovounesios's message of "Mon, 22 Jul 2019 09:34:14 +0100") Message-ID: <87a7d6yohb.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: 36714@debbugs.gnu.org, Jean Louis X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 07/22/19 09:34 AM, Basil L. Contovounesios wrote: > Eric Abrahamsen writes: > >> Second of all... unfortunately I don't know this code well enough to >> figure it out without sitting down with a chunk of time. So far as I can >> tell, nnmaildir scans the maildir directories using `directory-files', >> which by itself is very quick. Presumably what's slow is registering all >> the messages inside the directories, and I don't immediately see a way >> of preventing that. > > Would it be possible to do custom directory filtering in the > 'directory-files' virtual server setting of the nnmaildir backend? I guess it would be possible to set the directory-files setting to a lambda that accepted the same arguments as `directory-files', and only returned the desired folder. Again, I just don't know enough about the inner workings of nnmaildir to say for sure. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 22 13:40:25 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2019 17:40:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33582 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpcIS-0004yV-MG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:40:24 -0400 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:46366 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpcIQ-0004yD-Ud for 36714@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:40:23 -0400 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 18A36FA023; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 17:40:15 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: Jean Louis Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718204841.GB6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190719061550.GB8310@protected.rcdrun.com> <87o91q6iqz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190722084421.GA4571@protected.rcdrun.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 10:40:14 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20190722084421.GA4571@protected.rcdrun.com> (Jean Louis's message of "Mon, 22 Jul 2019 10:44:21 +0200") Message-ID: <875znuynlt.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: 36714@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 07/22/19 10:44 AM, Jean Louis wrote: > * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-19 19:24]: >> > Thank you for helping. Yet it is not usable for >> > me. I have too many maildirs and I was thinking >> > Gnus would read it as maildirs, instead it started >> > creating .nnmaildir directories inside with copies >> > of those emails for its own way of processing. >> >> Yeah, I don't think there's any way around the creation of the >> .nnmaildir directories, at least not given the way Gnus currently >> functions. They aren't actually copies of the emails -- just vectors of >> headers for each mail -- but obviously if you've got a lot of mail they >> still take up a lot of space. > > If they are not copies, they took as much space as > original emails. > > That is opposite and contradictory to what Maildir > is supposed to be. > > nnmaildir is thus not described well enough in the > Gnus manual, it is bug in itself. > > When somebody mentions "Maildir" that means > managing emails in Maildir folders, and not making > indexes or vectors inside of those Maildir > folders, taking up gigabytes of spaces and > basically endangering integrity of files of the > user. > > Thus that behavior of nnmaildir is bug. Gnus operates as a general newsreader/email client, not a dedicated maildir reader. The maildir functionality needs to fit in with its existing paradigms, and right now that means maintaining nov header files alongside the messages themselves. Otherwise actually listing groups and reading messages would be unbearably slow. I agree it's essentially a bug, but it's one that can't be fixed without some fundamental alteration of how Gnus works. I also don't think this threatens the integrity of the user's files: the extra data is maintained in parallel, and doesn't interfere with the messages themselves. > One shall explain it very well in Gnus manual that > nnmaildir is not managing Maildir folders but > rather using Maildir folders to make indexes, > vectors, having some kind of news overlay on top > of Maildir folders. > > And one shall mention the limit, as it simple does > not work over certain number of Maildirs. I do not > know how many, as I do have many maildirs. It is > unusable for me. The limit (defined as "the point at which the user gets annoyed") is going to be different for different machines, and different users. But I agree the manual should provide a more prominent warning. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 22 13:41:45 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2019 17:41:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33589 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpcJl-000523-Fb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:41:45 -0400 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:46398 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpcJj-00051p-Qy for 36714@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:41:44 -0400 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 39EFEFA023; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 17:41:38 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718204841.GB6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87tvbe4ge1.fsf@tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 10:41:36 -0700 In-Reply-To: <87tvbe4ge1.fsf@tcd.ie> (Basil L. Contovounesios's message of "Mon, 22 Jul 2019 09:34:14 +0100") Message-ID: <871ryiynjj.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: 36714@debbugs.gnu.org, Jean Louis X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 07/22/19 09:34 AM, Basil L. Contovounesios wrote: > Eric Abrahamsen writes: > >> Second of all... unfortunately I don't know this code well enough to >> figure it out without sitting down with a chunk of time. So far as I can >> tell, nnmaildir scans the maildir directories using `directory-files', >> which by itself is very quick. Presumably what's slow is registering all >> the messages inside the directories, and I don't immediately see a way >> of preventing that. > > Would it be possible to do custom directory filtering in the > 'directory-files' virtual server setting of the nnmaildir backend? It might also be possible to make the building of nov files incremental: ie only create them as messages are actually viewed. It would slow down first-time viewing, and potentially fill up the same amount of disk space, if you view all messages, but at least you'd have an operational maildir installation faster. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 23 03:30:17 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2019 07:30:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33985 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hppFY-000671-Qo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 03:30:17 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:37083) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hppFW-00065Z-Jl for 36714@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 03:30:15 -0400 Received: from protected.rcdrun.com (localhost [::1]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:30:07 -0700 id 000000000002034C.000000005D36B77F.0000125D Received: from localhost (protected.rcdrun.com [local]) by protected.rcdrun.com (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPA id 704a02e6; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 07:30:01 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:30:01 +0200 From: Jean Louis To: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs Message-ID: <20190723073001.GD23639@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718204841.GB6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190719061550.GB8310@protected.rcdrun.com> <87o91q6iqz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190722084421.GA4571@protected.rcdrun.com> <875znuynlt.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <875znuynlt.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Organization: Thetabiz Corporation User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: 36714@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-22 19:40]: > Gnus operates as a general newsreader/email client, not a dedicated > maildir reader. The maildir functionality needs to fit in with its > existing paradigms, and right now that means maintaining nov header > files alongside the messages themselves. Otherwise actually listing > groups and reading messages would be unbearably slow. I agree it's > essentially a bug, but it's one that can't be fixed without some > fundamental alteration of how Gnus works. Sure, it is general newsreader. But when acting as email client that reads Maildirs, then just nothing need to be indexed extra witin maildir folders. Just because something had to be complex for news, need not be complex for maildirs. Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maildir If maildir folders are called groups in Gnus terminology, then listing them is as simple as detecting if it is a maildir folder. Without detecting them, wouldb be simple as `ls ~/Maildir` Maildir has its file structure, it need no program to add something to it. There are cur, new, tmp sub directories, there is no need for any additional directories. > I also don't think this threatens the integrity of the user's files: the > extra data is maintained in parallel, and doesn't interfere with the > messages themselves. I did read nnmaildir info page, and I have not found anything that would indicate what would Gnus do to my file system. In my case maildir folders are many, and it makes no difference in speed when reading it with the `mutt` mail client, but also no difference when reading it with `maildir` package, but that one is not nicely developed yet. It started working on my files for more than 24 hours, and it brought my system to being not responsive. I did try to leave it running, but it never ended. So this is real world example. It created gigabytes of files in those subdirectories without warning me, without asking me. That is a programm choice that does not respect the user. Maildirs could be indexed, but that is left to some external tools I don't think it should be Gnus responsibility to index them. In reality, to access maildir is as fast as accessing directory and files inside. To make index of those files, reading Subject in first part of file or greping it somehow is enough. I think that Emacs does have almost everything to read Maildir files and to use some of mail sending tools. It just needs so little to have proper Maildir based reading, sorting and sending files. mu4e package is not good for that, it uses only indexed database, but not the Maildirs straight. `maildir` package shows how easy it can be, it is just not yet in best shape. I can improve it formy own needs, but it would be so nice to have GNU Emacs become able to replace `mutt` Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 23 03:37:51 2019 Received: (at 36714) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2019 07:37:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33997 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hppMt-0006I0-JH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 03:37:51 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:38189) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hppMq-0006Hj-SM for 36714@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 03:37:50 -0400 Received: from protected.rcdrun.com (localhost [::1]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:37:42 -0700 id 0000000000020349.000000005D36B946.000012D0 Received: from localhost (protected.rcdrun.com [local]) by protected.rcdrun.com (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPA id 5a682374; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 07:37:41 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:37:41 +0200 From: Jean Louis To: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs Message-ID: <20190723073741.GE23639@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718204841.GB6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87tvbe4ge1.fsf@tcd.ie> <871ryiynjj.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <871ryiynjj.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Organization: Thetabiz Corporation User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36714 Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" , 36714@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-22 19:42]: > > Would it be possible to do custom directory filtering in the > > 'directory-files' virtual server setting of the nnmaildir backend? > > It might also be possible to make the building of nov files incremental: > ie only create them as messages are actually viewed. It would slow down > first-time viewing, and potentially fill up the same amount of disk > space, if you view all messages, but at least you'd have an operational > maildir installation faster. But why making it complex when it is not? That is contradictory to Maildir "standards". There is nothing to do to the Maildir directory but to read the To/From/Date/Subject to make the index of it. Then by clicking on the particular mail, it would open the file. Anything else is not "maildir standard". It should warn user that it makes much more to Maildir files than it is expected by standard. With my 47708 maildirs, it created this many directories inside, and duplicated the disk space that I was using. In regards to info page "articles are deleted after one week"... I am really worried about that. Email messages are named articles, this creates confusion, and that would further mean that some email messages which are supposed to stay, would be deleted unless user is skilled to configure the parameters. In general Gnus is not usable and is dangerous to Maildirs. It creates complexities where no such are required and necessary. Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 24 14:18:55 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2019 18:18:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37964 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hqLqp-0005De-G3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:18:55 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:46669) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hqLql-0005DT-7J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:18:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40097) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hqLqk-0002dg-4l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:18:51 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RDNS_DYNAMIC, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hqLqj-0002KH-2C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:18:50 -0400 Received: from 195-159-176-226.customer.powertech.no ([195.159.176.226]:39786 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hqLqi-0002Ho-RW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:18:49 -0400 Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hqLqh-0009ul-46 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 20:18:47 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:18:32 -0700 Message-ID: <87blxjnvnr.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718204841.GB6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190719061550.GB8310@protected.rcdrun.com> <87o91q6iqz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190722084421.GA4571@protected.rcdrun.com> <875znuynlt.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190723073001.GD23639@protected.rcdrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:nbfKWXjntCbam2RIgEhMJVd1iEE= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) Jean Louis writes: > * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-22 19:40]: [...] >> I also don't think this threatens the integrity of the user's files: the >> extra data is maintained in parallel, and doesn't interfere with the >> messages themselves. > > I did read nnmaildir info page, and I have not found anything that > would indicate what would Gnus do to my file system. The first paragraph of the maildir section of the Gnus manual says: ‘nnmaildir’ also stores extra information in the ‘.nnmaildir/’ directory within a maildir. On the next page of the manual, there's a section on this group parameter: ‘nov-cache-size’ An integer specifying the size of the NOV memory cache. To speed things up, ‘nnmaildir’ keeps NOV data in memory for a limited number of articles in each group. (This is probably not worthwhile, and will probably be removed in the future.) This parameter’s value is noticed only the first time a group is seen after the server is opened—i.e., when you first start Gnus, typically. The NOV cache is never resized until the server is closed and reopened. The default is an estimate of the number of articles that would be displayed in the summary buffer: a count of articles that are either marked with ‘tick’ or not marked with ‘read’, plus a little extra. Noting both that the nov cache will probably go away at some point, and how to control its size in the meantime. (add-to-list 'gnus-parameters '("^nnmaildir:" (nov-cache-size . 2) (expire-age . never))) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 24 14:25:20 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2019 18:25:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38028 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hqLx2-0005VI-2L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:25:20 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:60553) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hqLx0-0005VA-H0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:25:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42208) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hqLwz-0005Q8-H7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:25:18 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RDNS_DYNAMIC, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hqLwy-0002gi-FK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:25:17 -0400 Received: from 195-159-176-226.customer.powertech.no ([195.159.176.226]:59774 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hqLwy-0002fC-8W for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:25:16 -0400 Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hqLww-000H37-FA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 20:25:14 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#36714: 27.0.50; Gnus nnmaildir taking long time to recursively visit sub-Maildirs Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:25:08 -0700 Message-ID: <877e87nvcr.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <86ftn37cvz.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87sgr32mnq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718194311.GA6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87k1cf2jqh.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190718204841.GB6908@protected.rcdrun.com> <87v9vyrhqx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190719061550.GB8310@protected.rcdrun.com> <87o91q6iqz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190722084421.GA4571@protected.rcdrun.com> <875znuynlt.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20190723073001.GD23639@protected.rcdrun.com> <87blxjnvnr.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:eesSh/OPBLHUeecSAhwiy4SLSiU= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) Eric Abrahamsen writes: > Jean Louis writes: > >> * Eric Abrahamsen [2019-07-22 19:40]: > > [...] > >>> I also don't think this threatens the integrity of the user's files: the >>> extra data is maintained in parallel, and doesn't interfere with the >>> messages themselves. >> >> I did read nnmaildir info page, and I have not found anything that >> would indicate what would Gnus do to my file system. > > The first paragraph of the maildir section of the Gnus manual says: > > ‘nnmaildir’ also stores extra information in the ‘.nnmaildir/’ directory > within a maildir. > > On the next page of the manual, there's a section on this group parameter: > > ‘nov-cache-size’ > An integer specifying the size of the NOV memory cache. To speed > things up, ‘nnmaildir’ keeps NOV data in memory for a limited > number of articles in each group. (This is probably not > worthwhile, and will probably be removed in the future.) This > parameter’s value is noticed only the first time a group is seen > after the server is opened—i.e., when you first start Gnus, > typically. The NOV cache is never resized until the server is > closed and reopened. The default is an estimate of the number of > articles that would be displayed in the summary buffer: a count of > articles that are either marked with ‘tick’ or not marked with > ‘read’, plus a little extra. > > Noting both that the nov cache will probably go away at some point, and > how to control its size in the meantime. > > (add-to-list 'gnus-parameters > '("^nnmaildir:" > (nov-cache-size . 2) > (expire-age . never))) Actually, `expire-age' isn't really necessary: so long as you don't mark any articles with the "E" key, nothing will get expired. From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:54:56 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 11:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator