GNU bug report logs - #36359
'sentence-end-base' 3 additional symbols

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban <at> gmail.com>
To: Bug GNU Emacs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: 'sentence-end-base' 3 additional symbols
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:13:56 +0200

I just wanted to suggest to perhaps add this:

- '>' - GREATER-THAN SIGN
  (codepoint 62, #o76, #x3e),
- '»' - RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK
  (codepoint 187, #o273, #xbb),
- '›' - SINGLE RIGHT-POINTING ANGLE QUOTATION MARK
  (codepoint 8250, #o20072, #x203a),

to the value of 'sentence-end-base', like this for example:

-"[.?!…‽][]\"'”’)}]*"
+"[.?!…‽][]\"'”’»›)}>]*"

And perhaps update example in section "15.8(INFO) Regular Expression
Example" of Emacs manual.


S. U.


In GNU Emacs 26.2 (build 1, i686-w64-mingw32)
 of 2019-04-13 built on CIRROCUMULUS
Repository revision: fd1b34bfba8f3f6298df47c8e10b61530426f749
Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601

Message #8 received at 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#36359: 'sentence-end-base' 3 additional symbols
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 03:12:18 +0200

Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban <at> gmail.com> writes:

> I just wanted to suggest to perhaps add this:
>
> - '>' - GREATER-THAN SIGN
>   (codepoint 62, #o76, #x3e),
> - '»' - RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK
>   (codepoint 187, #o273, #xbb),
> - '›' - SINGLE RIGHT-POINTING ANGLE QUOTATION MARK
>   (codepoint 8250, #o20072, #x203a),
>
> to the value of 'sentence-end-base', like this for example:
>
> -"[.?!…‽][]\"'”’)}]*"
> +"[.?!…‽][]\"'”’»›)}>]*"

I can see » being useful here, but do people use > in these
circumstances?

And › I've never seen before -- what language is that used in?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #11 received at 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban <at> gmail.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#36359: 'sentence-end-base' 3 additional symbols
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 11:07:38 +0200

> I can see » being useful here, (...)

So, I'll take it as done.

> (...) but do people use > in these circumstances?

Well, I was thinking about writing them in LaTeX documents, where (if
font encoding is OT4 or T1) you can get '»' by typing '>>'.  If this
is not enough, then skip it, I'll set it manually.

> And › I've never seen before -- what language is that used in?

And this is (I think) used for inner quotes, just like '’',
i.e. « ... ‹ ... › ... ».

Here is short thread about it:
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/fr-citations-imbriqu%C3%A9es-quotation-within-a-quotation-typography.1061025/

Message #14 received at 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#36359: 'sentence-end-base' 3 additional symbols
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 14:17:12 +0200

Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban <at> gmail.com> writes:

>> (...) but do people use > in these circumstances?
>
> Well, I was thinking about writing them in LaTeX documents, where (if
> font encoding is OT4 or T1) you can get '»' by typing '>>'.  If this
> is not enough, then skip it, I'll set it manually.

But you end up with » in the buffer, so I don't quite follow how
having > in sentence-end-base is useful...

>> And › I've never seen before -- what language is that used in?
>
> And this is (I think) used for inner quotes, just like '’',
> i.e. « ... ‹ ... › ... ».

Right:

« La Constitution du 3 septembre 1791 proclame la nécessité d'‹ une instruction
publique, commune à tous les citoyens, gratuite à l'égard des parties
d'enseignement indispensables pour tous les hommes ›. »

That example is also interesting because it has the full stop before the
», while I was wondering whether the French did that (or put it after
the »), so I guess that answers that.

So unless anybody objects, I'm adding › and » to the regexp.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #21 received at 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban <at> gmail.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#36359: 'sentence-end-base' 3 additional symbols
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 20:29:14 +0200

>> (...) you can get '»' by typing '>>'.
>
> But you end up with » in the buffer, so I don't quite follow how
> having > in sentence-end-base is useful...

You will get » but in generated .PDF, in .TEX it'll be >>.  Just like
'' in .TEX and ” in .PDF.

> So unless anybody objects, I'm adding › and » to the regexp.

Thanks, but I'm worried a bit about spaces they put before closing
quotes.  In the example quotation from your message, at the end, there
is "DOT SPACE 'RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK'" - regexp
won't recognize this.  Perhaps update to this will do:

   "[.?!…‽] ?[]\"'”’»›)}]*"
	   ^^-these were added

But then I don't know how people who use these quotes, actually use
them, i.e. with or without space?  Because for example: gutenberg.org
-> bookshelves -> Français -> any category/book -> Plain Text (UTF-8),
doesn't use space, as far as I know.

Message #24 received at 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#36359: 'sentence-end-base' 3 additional symbols
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 21:40:53 +0200

Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban <at> gmail.com> writes:

> But then I don't know how people who use these quotes, actually use
> them, i.e. with or without space?  Because for example: gutenberg.org
> -> bookshelves -> Français -> any category/book -> Plain Text (UTF-8),
> doesn't use space, as far as I know.

Yeah, I thought it looked pretty strange with the spaces, too, so unless
any French people speak up and want to have that added, I think we can
just leave it as it is.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #27 received at 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban <at> gmail.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#36359: 'sentence-end-base' 3 additional symbols
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 09:18:40 +0200

> (...) unless any French people speak up and want to have that added,
> I think we can just leave it as it is.

I agree.

So to sum things up, » and › were added, while > I'll set on my own,
until one day someone else will add another argument.

If yes, then I'll consider this thread as closed.

Message #30 received at 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban <at> gmail.com>
To: Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban <at> gmail.com>,
 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#36359: 'sentence-end-base' 3 additional symbols
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 15:27:45 +0200

> So to sum things up, » and › were added, while > I'll set
> on my own, until one day someone else will add another
> argument.

Just to clear up any doubts, can I get a confirmation on
this, because I'm not sure whether I should consider it done
or not.

Message #33 received at 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 36359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#36359: 'sentence-end-base' 3 additional symbols
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 15:29:03 +0200

Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban <at> gmail.com> writes:

>> So to sum things up, » and › were added, while > I'll set
>> on my own, until one day someone else will add another
>> argument.
>
> Just to clear up any doubts, can I get a confirmation on
> this, because I'm not sure whether I should consider it done
> or not.

Your summation was correct.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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