From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:40 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#35551 <35551@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#35551 <35551@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: package gcc does not depend on binutils and glibc Reply-To: bug#35551 <35551@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 09:03:40 +0000 retitle 35551 package gcc does not depend on binutils and glibc reassign 35551 guix submitter 35551 Bruno Haible severity 35551 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 03 18:57:43 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2019 22:57:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49866 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hMh7f-0007jD-KR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 18:57:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59612) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hMh7c-0007iv-9l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 18:57:41 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:57069) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hMh7X-0005gz-3L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 18:57:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45751) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hMh7W-0008AW-3m for bug-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 18:57:35 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hMh7V-0005Yo-5A for bug-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 18:57:34 -0400 Received: from mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5300::2]:35944) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hMh7U-0005Us-6B for bug-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 18:57:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1556924248; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=clisp.org; h=Message-ID:Date:Subject:To:From:X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From: Subject:Sender; bh=a7Gtd9AODghpgFsdEMgFBiWu7ZLF/Ecsn1FZZnpJil4=; b=Owt7O2qC6DLpoI1cOh52gw0q/ef3ARdLTe3cX9e1+BGusDELS5qugNDozljVIZX08v ft31yMhoC0njVE2brIJvptTGSe6bvEVptSk7cIRxhRN3V9jZcMvN1XyJ9VBfo655z0qr SovjtqRnGHrd2Jb6CU3s7zHjukj7kCYXO6r0sEbCdBT7+J7bkZGlJLLajJeRhONtkMXZ 4UVEKSLgg21N5XJkrg72ta+xmEL9adRx/rTLHlnM+Gsx6M/KoAvvOCNPRMaCf9hB1uCQ 1FTt11unSlMcRHCq3MOjjcxOURBleaHIeYBqfdAuFR3E3YWqURU39+jsfoAZVjZhm5dA zMWA== X-RZG-AUTH: ":Ln4Re0+Ic/6oZXR1YgKryK8brlshOcZlIWs+iCP5vnk6shH+AHjwLuWOGaf0y5RW" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from bruno.haible.de by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.18 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id m03afev43MvRZKs (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Sat, 4 May 2019 00:57:27 +0200 (CEST) From: Bruno Haible To: bug-guix@gnu.org Subject: package gcc does not depend on binutils and glibc Date: Sat, 04 May 2019 00:57:26 +0200 Message-ID: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> User-Agent: KMail/5.1.3 (Linux/4.4.0-145-generic; KDE/5.18.0; x86_64; ; ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5300::2 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi, After installing the guix-1.0 installation image (guix-system-vm-image-1.0.0.x86_64-linux) and running it with qemu, I wanted to compile a hello-world program in C. $ cat hello.c #include int main () { printf("Hello world\n"); return 0; } $ guix install gcc $ gcc hello.c error trying to exec 'as': execvp: No such file or directory Second try: $ guix install binutils $ gcc hello.c /home/guest/.guix-profile/bin/ld: cannot find crt1.o: No such file or directory /home/guest/.guix-profile/bin/ld: cannot find crt1.o: No such file or directory collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status Third try: $ guix install glibc $ gcc hello.c Now it succeeds! I would have expected that 'guix install gcc' installs binutils and glibc as well, because: * The use of gcc without binutils is limited: You can use "gcc -E" and "gcc -S" to preprocess or compile to .s files, but this is rarely what people need. * The use of gcc without glibc is limited: You can use "gcc -c" to compile to .o files. But without the ability to create a program or a shared library (which needs crti.o rather than crt1.o), the compiler is hardly useful. Bruno From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 03 19:27:08 2019 Received: (at 35551) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2019 23:27:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49899 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hMha8-0008R2-8K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 19:27:08 -0400 Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.200]:44517) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hMha6-0008Qs-8b for 35551@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 19:27:07 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 185.131.40.67 Received: from localhost (40-67.ipv4.commingeshautdebit.fr [185.131.40.67]) (Authenticated sender: admin@nicolasgoaziou.fr) by relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 003FE20008; Fri, 3 May 2019 23:27:01 +0000 (UTC) From: Nicolas Goaziou To: Bruno Haible Subject: Re: bug#35551: package gcc does not depend on binutils and glibc References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> Date: Sat, 04 May 2019 01:27:00 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> (Bruno Haible's message of "Sat, 04 May 2019 00:57:26 +0200") Message-ID: <87imurunjv.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551 Cc: 35551@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hello, Bruno Haible writes: > After installing the guix-1.0 installation image > (guix-system-vm-image-1.0.0.x86_64-linux) and running it with qemu, > I wanted to compile a hello-world program in C. > > $ cat hello.c > #include > int main () { > printf("Hello world\n"); > return 0; > } > > $ guix install gcc > $ gcc hello.c > error trying to exec 'as': execvp: No such file or directory You are really looking for `gcc-toolchain' package. See section 2.6.6 in the manual. HTH, Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 03 20:20:32 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 May 2019 00:20:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49946 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hMiPn-0001CE-Mz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 20:20:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42619) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hMiPk-0001By-FQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 20:20:29 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:51394) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hMiPf-0002WJ-9l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 20:20:23 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56999) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hMiPe-0000YM-CX for bug-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 20:20:23 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hMiPc-0002Jc-OL for bug-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 20:20:22 -0400 Received: from tobias.gr ([2001:470:7405::1]:51644) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hMiPc-0001zV-2N for bug-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 20:20:20 -0400 Received: by tobias.gr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 59bad5c5; Sat, 4 May 2019 00:20:06 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=tobias.gr; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=2018; i=me@tobias.gr; bh=opMFCjsZtQIMWtDin2JsIL bTOx8FJjdKn4GexEPaJX0=; b=pdJppD8x+0qHWscJu7PeNW9S6iCJ77pNhTprf4 UxtwdfqKYvHS/QHIDUTkvHmaDI7p1onbgwAKb/6pZKbVlV4kElHRL133nMh2JWH/ uTBwrZUvjuDVprLEa4p9q10d8+TN1QiGU+HNUZIp2j6unVUtaGniu1ITLJjrIMN7 1xRQKjktPSIg+0/3LKD60CK6LAASTS9U9MVexls2UgFgTqyTZX1oeEk9IWGS8XDI lhJLEOU5RGrK98bjh6ilLKa8KdvIDghsKiJM8c5Jm4Y+Wvnu9Y0pyKhbNstvtLWg 7GcmaN1e3VVKKvxO93wa7f8FmrJS4aKvOnc4GH9KZKG7alxA== Received: by submission.tobias.gr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 64575816 (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO); Sat, 4 May 2019 00:20:03 +0000 (UTC) From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice To: bug-guix@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#35551: package gcc does not depend on binutils and glibc References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <87imurunjv.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> In-reply-to: <87imurunjv.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> Date: Sat, 04 May 2019 02:20:02 +0200 Message-ID: <8736lvf4ul.fsf@nckx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2001:470:7405::1 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Bruno Haible X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bruno, Welcome! Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > You are really looking for `gcc-toolchain' package. See section=20 > 2.6.6 in > the manual. Yup! :-) =E2=80=98Toolchain=E2=80=99 exactly describes what you're looking for, so I= 'm=20 going to go ahead and close this bug. (Speaking as a user, I'd be annoyed to the point of switching if=20 my distro installed =E2=80=98binutils=E2=80=99 when asked for =E2=80=98gcc= =E2=80=99.) Kind regards, T G-R --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQT12iAyS4c9C3o4dnINsP+IT1VteQUCXMzasgAKCRANsP+IT1Vt eTbRAQC251jYKwidZn/EtE3e2XUP7CL8m0ipNXG5Io4Fvzj10gEA3el1qQMX0KqU DzhsROZCDKr8W90EEZMXitDqnnMc+gE= =d/Pc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 03 21:34:50 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 May 2019 01:34:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50038 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hMjZi-0002uS-7u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 21:34:50 -0400 Received: from mo4-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([81.169.146.161]:29355) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hMjZf-0002uF-B5 for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2019 21:34:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1556933685; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=clisp.org; h=References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=kRiS/um0xAbGj2RPyY3VYQA/MNEF1kkY3nlyKvC1bS0=; b=fkJNlR9UxcR91jawZW7APlaSqHBTeoqNoPLFG5OWZ/jvMipYjxCYt7NQogkBm52V1O +jBTYJ0thL6ShOj0qf3Ynw4tkcRaQXrKGmxd/pejSIK76Azwz0z4AhKNb6aYbUjkGKKJ 3ZMcJ/xDrdfjrKpvEVw5F9Nz1m+HV70zwCtKk6C0zGPDyYtfE7fIchEYN7acxSxOX6kx TFAyS/k6AhrkxQa5UXfCwJatwX04sOP8h+NJPA9FWSyhLgikEjSdLjVOFQ87zy2ww9TK 8FdwjITpwR2ntz4w6NH98ZJ1H18Hx3Pv77WmDxx4WcKFqim63ljVbqSvcHFW6NANB4vu kUfQ== X-RZG-AUTH: ":Ln4Re0+Ic/6oZXR1YgKryK8brlshOcZlIWs+iCP5vnk6shH+AHjwLuWOGaf0y5RW" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from bruno.haible.de by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.18 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id m03afev441YhZiI (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Sat, 4 May 2019 03:34:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Bruno Haible To: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Subject: Re: bug#35551: package gcc does not depend on binutils and glibc Date: Sat, 04 May 2019 03:34:42 +0200 Message-ID: <3104507.Mr5onzjcma@omega> User-Agent: KMail/5.1.3 (Linux/4.4.0-145-generic; KDE/5.18.0; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <8736lvf4ul.fsf@nckx> References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <87imurunjv.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <8736lvf4ul.fsf@nckx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-guix@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > > You are really looking for `gcc-toolchain' package. See section=20 > > 2.6.6 in the manual. Indeed! Thanks for the answer. > (Speaking as a user, I'd be annoyed to the point of switching if=20 > my distro installed =E2=80=98binutils=E2=80=99 when asked for =E2=80=98gc= c=E2=80=99.) Well, 'guix install emacs' installs more than emacs as well: graphviz, ghostscript, python, fftw, cups, ... There are different kinds of dependencies between packages: - Package A contains binaries that are linked to shared libraries installed by package B. - Package A contains binaries that invoke binaries installed by package C. - Package A produces output or file formats that can only be viewed through package D. =46or me, any of these dependencies would be a reason, when installing A, to install B, C, D as well. Bruno From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 07 12:04:30 2019 Received: (at 35551) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2019 16:04:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59395 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hO2Zw-0005Ry-5w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 May 2019 12:04:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55842) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hO2Zt-0005Rk-Lv for 35551@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 May 2019 12:04:27 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33781) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hO2Zl-0001Ig-7z; Tue, 07 May 2019 12:04:17 -0400 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=39994 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hO2Zk-0008JJ-NJ; Tue, 07 May 2019 12:04:17 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: 35551@debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus Subject: Re: bug#35551: package gcc does not depend on binutils and glibc References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <87imurunjv.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <8736lvf4ul.fsf@nckx> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 18 =?utf-8?Q?Flor=C3=A9al?= an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Tue, 07 May 2019 18:04:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: <8736lvf4ul.fsf@nckx> (Tobias Geerinckx-Rice's message of "Sat, 04 May 2019 02:20:02 +0200") Message-ID: <87y33i2qv6.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551 Cc: me@tobias.gr, bruno@clisp.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice skribis: > =E2=80=98Toolchain=E2=80=99 exactly describes what you're looking for, so= I'm going to > go ahead and close this bug. True, but we all know that =E2=80=9Cguix install gcc=E2=80=9D is the first = thing one would do, expecting it to actually work. :-) Ricardo, I think you had a patch to hide the =E2=80=98gcc=E2=80=99 package.= Could you commit it? Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 07 12:23:29 2019 Received: (at 35551) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2019 16:23:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59422 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hO2sL-0005x0-6r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 May 2019 12:23:29 -0400 Received: from tobias.gr ([80.241.217.52]:34416) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hO2sI-0005wq-VX for 35551@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 May 2019 12:23:27 -0400 Received: by tobias.gr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id e41fb427; Tue, 7 May 2019 16:23:24 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=tobias.gr; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=2018; i=me@tobias.gr; bh=XevDy9jYeeUxScThk/GP7T nsrG8DlmTwkhrbQr1zQWs=; b=JrapnPyTCoYrLh1+3RA5k5eVc+GwwsNN6G32TX MGAWFnPJ6OE/9s+SAapGS+esX8vawe7rvtiRXiHZRzf/V5nAE1vEjiDfvzQb2EJc i4GwPbm9dvbNFMrLS46PcKnx2g67EpC3j4Q5qjrVBvbBFKpHpJZZGPhtr5sTEbml Y8jRonuvlyyNtWRbENA9Cb6UO261n6YpeekSLuE3oA636v78beM0iqR9ZxnTmJkF zMPr6KoKkbQxn3fLXQMDjQvmIwqLJ1fd87vaFBNS776D/z9udD7TZtuWydaclymW HPYS9n8GuYf7lWZAPstNOIOfE1836QbxLrTXqzyXW9YrEAyg== Received: by submission.tobias.gr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 47a3abbb (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO); Tue, 7 May 2019 16:23:24 +0000 (UTC) From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice To: Bruno Haible Subject: Re: bug#35551: package gcc does not depend on binutils and glibc References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <87imurunjv.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <8736lvf4ul.fsf@nckx> <3104507.Mr5onzjcma@omega> In-reply-to: <3104507.Mr5onzjcma@omega> Date: Tue, 07 May 2019 18:23:24 +0200 Message-ID: <87bm0e5j43.fsf@nckx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551 Cc: 35551@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bruno, Bruno Haible wrote: >> (Speaking as a user, I'd be annoyed to the point of switching=20 >> if=20 >> my distro installed =E2=80=98binutils=E2=80=99 when asked for =E2=80=98g= cc=E2=80=99.) > > Well, 'guix install emacs' installs more than emacs as well: > graphviz, ghostscript, python, fftw, cups, ... Oh, we're talking about different things then. Installing (in any sense) emacs will add its dependencies to the=20 store (your =E2=80=98install=E2=80=99), but doesn't propagate them into the= =20 profile (my =E2=80=98install=E2=80=99): ~ =CE=BB guix environment --pure --ad-hoc emacs ~ =CE=BB dot bash: dot: command not found I tend to avoid the unqualified term =E2=80=98install=E2=80=99 on Guix for = this=20 reason. Sorry for the confusion! Kind regards, T G-R --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQT12iAyS4c9C3o4dnINsP+IT1VteQUCXNGw/AAKCRANsP+IT1Vt eSBuAQCzvgXAB9n3447xvVSdezgSe9WJDxGwNvQEz/Tmr7x4YQD+IHCtsYZ8geKg 2jFPX7vps3DXObvj7vFuSwGAAWxUSQI= =RKZG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 07 13:27:10 2019 Received: (at 35551) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2019 17:27:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59494 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hO3ry-0003G9-DC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 May 2019 13:27:10 -0400 Received: from mo4-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([85.215.255.22]:21388) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hO3rv-0003Fx-IS for 35551@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 May 2019 13:27:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1557250025; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=clisp.org; h=References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=oOUE47/uT4iNluoizZcEJQrGk8NFvyROEWw/wDIqdcU=; b=LxnRV9q5LAHu7g/6JacmM1KU13onE4jf1WtLLpWKAwm9Za4G0qbJQvQYyLHtwSx8Fk 6o8xszGzLAlxatFr7wP9IAYtKYhG7rNTC5w0+H+LdT1dP+okrv2sMYfFEkKFoaAhh/e3 si/uIoyJLigl2ZNA09+yigepMPEakFlKLc66L+s1ukoEu2cTX8vuzCXDtnBV6HQVe6q4 PS0cnW40ub+QIg26Ir7GcJvsCAcv78IGpx8YN62R1Gc+Tr780lpBS6AdLlwzVhJwQBGQ GVSOnL8A3ivC2Bo0oocBh6Qils0Liv6dc5wwD2RYEeMIupGMSRJhM9bSNlrZkI1Wxyku rULw== X-RZG-AUTH: ":Ln4Re0+Ic/6oZXR1YgKryK8brlshOcZlIWs+iCP5vnk6shH+AHjwLuWOGaf0y5RW" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from bruno.haible.de by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.18 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id m03afev47HQxqcF (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Tue, 7 May 2019 19:26:59 +0200 (CEST) From: Bruno Haible To: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Subject: Re: bug#35551: package gcc does not depend on binutils and glibc Date: Tue, 07 May 2019 19:26:59 +0200 Message-ID: <2611636.VX1SFXYJk3@omega> User-Agent: KMail/5.1.3 (Linux/4.4.0-145-generic; KDE/5.18.0; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <87bm0e5j43.fsf@nckx> References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <3104507.Mr5onzjcma@omega> <87bm0e5j43.fsf@nckx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551 Cc: 35551@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Tobias Geerinckx-Rice wrote: > > Well, 'guix install emacs' installs more than emacs as well: > > graphviz, ghostscript, python, fftw, cups, ... >=20 > Oh, we're talking about different things then. >=20 > Installing (in any sense) emacs will add its dependencies to the=20 > store (your =E2=80=98install=E2=80=99), but doesn't propagate them into t= he=20 > profile (my =E2=80=98install=E2=80=99): >=20 > ~ =CE=BB guix environment --pure --ad-hoc emacs > ~ =CE=BB dot > bash: dot: command not found After I install 'gcc', I don't really mind whether 'as' and 'ld' are found in my $PATH. But I want that gcc finds them when gcc needs to invoke them. Bruno From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 09 17:22:22 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 May 2019 21:22:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36603 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hOqUg-0001jD-0x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 May 2019 17:22:22 -0400 Received: from sender4-of-o53.zoho.com ([136.143.188.53]:21357) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hOqUe-0001j5-1h for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 May 2019 17:22:20 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1557436918; cv=none; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; b=eTi71FnrKvUj352Aa2lLlX0/gThXNChsvdCIT+d6vhebn1bFwGQM16SiDq0/2IBFZkGlA17y50n8ZT5utvPTpI7B1qwhCmj3ktGxekjovbbT9uYWDLwIUkpVw0rlJTISOQBEYr+ARLMDVKuuKd0pWcGpmYoDvn+JN5zgCUa5mas= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; t=1557436918; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=D0fb8KYeP9zXtq2bDEcwO3PpL6Mtd1tAAhOSlfyZ55U=; b=YoXmmsYCoWhXN1bfR8aDuMXlZCZqGtaoA5bGeWLa3DoNp0DV1ufGI3KR2lGhWxjFd0+W9ogPZWA03k1/08bDu2d0tjab3aSX0kmvE4nKiS4Yn+ruMhoa7TTRuGt1apWfkkxfflu4332zXq1seRnuPD9OmWas/CmXUWGYGMu/5t4= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zoho.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@elephly.net; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1557436918; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; l=685; bh=D0fb8KYeP9zXtq2bDEcwO3PpL6Mtd1tAAhOSlfyZ55U=; b=NS7IBaH73XKo3bbw4zV1/wwYb/HXKOXWnVQgToWhscPHXLIA2Sr7o/514K9dG+TE t/rIYChTZTJitKXhBFf8u7MjvmLyO1fjoGMws20AkZ1Fm1MonpDZNWloDbfATXha4Aw uD8Lq6s0VIHSamPhlpHQ2McQkWHYxTzkNZK2kOCE= Received: from localhost (p54AD4FFE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.173.79.254]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1557436916085677.7258898755523; Thu, 9 May 2019 14:21:56 -0700 (PDT) References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <87imurunjv.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <8736lvf4ul.fsf@nckx> <87y33i2qv6.fsf@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 26.2 From: Ricardo Wurmus To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: bug#35551: package gcc does not depend on binutils and glibc In-reply-to: <87y33i2qv6.fsf@gnu.org> X-URL: https://elephly.net X-PGP-Key: https://elephly.net/rekado.pubkey X-PGP-Fingerprint: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 23:21:52 +0200 Message-ID: <87pnors4r3.fsf@elephly.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: bruno@clisp.org, me@tobias.gr, 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > Tobias Geerinckx-Rice skribis: > >> =E2=80=98Toolchain=E2=80=99 exactly describes what you're looking for, s= o I'm going to >> go ahead and close this bug. > > True, but we all know that =E2=80=9Cguix install gcc=E2=80=9D is the firs= t thing one > would do, expecting it to actually work. :-) > > Ricardo, I think you had a patch to hide the =E2=80=98gcc=E2=80=99 packag= e. Could you > commit it? I=E2=80=99ve just done this. My apologies for the delay. Now a search for =E2=80=9Cgcc=E2=80=9D only returns =E2=80=9Cgcc-toolchain=E2=80=9D (and one= =E2=80=9Cgcc-bootstrap=E2=80=9D). -- Ricardo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 09 17:57:35 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 May 2019 21:57:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36633 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hOr2k-0002Z6-Th for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 May 2019 17:57:35 -0400 Received: from mo4-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([81.169.146.218]:28652) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hOr2h-0002Yu-Rf for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 May 2019 17:57:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1557439050; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=clisp.org; h=References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=Qr1jDedx4Yrv4T9+V0v0A4wuCI08brmKS6Ep4R4IuCY=; b=mOofNAOYSHx1WLZN1kzndht6pirF2qMUF4NzEB7b1I7YI03vSiopwi90vNDOFZs4uV sSGyu+32QJBMk7fvW1i3W4+QUTQc4bzHqtTAfGxA9FWj6XpZao++o4OG59lIwEvVvxrq AdY3stt9ZzHBvjj/LM8Fm+OKY95LmwzI9C0fL7VpYBRqc+0YzcIi8wheutXIEbvajAbS l2hvJJlHCDMxeYmfW6uJLpDJFcLePltrK6JmCLIBViGcexOdg73RzX6Dzb+AcLDl14o8 F85wzTrfgZv+Obot3C0YVx7sZ7YHRe5WEfce+XnJAyEaEfPh4aPRgVLzYnDRCq9PxNwP /+/Q== X-RZG-AUTH: ":Ln4Re0+Ic/6oZXR1YgKryK8brlshOcZlIWs+iCP5vnk6shH+AHjwLuWOGaf0y5RW" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from bruno.haible.de by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.18 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id m03afev49LvO5i2 (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Thu, 9 May 2019 23:57:24 +0200 (CEST) From: Bruno Haible To: Ricardo Wurmus Subject: Re: bug#35551: package gcc does not depend on binutils and glibc Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 23:57:23 +0200 Message-ID: <2986777.FnrGXkQkEc@omega> User-Agent: KMail/5.1.3 (Linux/4.4.0-145-generic; KDE/5.18.0; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <87pnors4r3.fsf@elephly.net> References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <87y33i2qv6.fsf@gnu.org> <87pnors4r3.fsf@elephly.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: Ludovic =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= , me@tobias.gr, 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hello Ricardo, > > Ricardo, I think you had a patch to hide the =E2=80=98gcc=E2=80=99 pack= age. Could you > > commit it? >=20 > I=E2=80=99ve just done this. My apologies for the delay. Now a search f= or > =E2=80=9Cgcc=E2=80=9D only returns =E2=80=9Cgcc-toolchain=E2=80=9D (and o= ne =E2=80=9Cgcc-bootstrap=E2=80=9D). Will it also be hidden from the package list https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/packages/G/ ? Being a newbie regarding guix, I found it more comfortable to search for packages under https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/packages/ rather than through some guix command. Bruno From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 02:19:04 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 06:19:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36959 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hOys4-0006Nq-5s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 02:19:04 -0400 Received: from sender-of-o51.zoho.com ([135.84.80.216]:21228) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hOys1-0006NP-PH for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 02:19:02 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1557469096; cv=none; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; b=mOmfPznhs8Lk+XddPBSw9OLzb0Bb4ns+yFEjMLyx2+i6S5q8pJpWAozeyleYqOO1+KnXNEY9NJ1+pbPBOgtvJKDjcKWcWcR+e4U3Er4fNkhaD1pGjYexpz1aMBB0rqu0eBw8eVRAc49kSmqH98OVhGB7+t49iI6RVgd68Fy+/Fk= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; t=1557469096; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=WrdAxBIlGQmJcnRaGC1N1G+FFKdPNeplvKp2HkQJYVw=; b=Zdtc0rGkfOWP8pvSP2xTWfvlQiNKC8AcEIGkW8vdxvS20VT825oceip/E3e+kOGsLXDyWsjo1B2/h3XrAzOSMOKyHNe8gZHgQdzjUXV9r9sxguSoCfFe/rbPgr1MwCn1smt20mNFxE50E0DdfwHGclwJD8X9ja8DSXss14tg0nc= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zoho.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@elephly.net; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1557469096; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; l=542; bh=WrdAxBIlGQmJcnRaGC1N1G+FFKdPNeplvKp2HkQJYVw=; b=OT7P2lmWYinvuknsj49Hq/4odSCHJDZWLlzYL/2DgaE/1EBp35HTjgoFBIBXUQSM PbjOR7G7FYt4vP+ANWVmr9Li0sLK6jpEktIukIethOxiC2Q0h4ZWMFwTObQAOyH35X5 dSK5/UA0Xi790h7HV6v+umtZn41dE03vIhscPHXc= Received: from localhost (p54AD4FEC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.173.79.236]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1557469095897433.47520945024746; Thu, 9 May 2019 23:18:15 -0700 (PDT) References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <87y33i2qv6.fsf@gnu.org> <87pnors4r3.fsf@elephly.net> <2986777.FnrGXkQkEc@omega> User-agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 26.2 From: Ricardo Wurmus To: Bruno Haible Subject: Re: bug#35551: package gcc does not depend on binutils and glibc In-reply-to: <2986777.FnrGXkQkEc@omega> X-URL: https://elephly.net X-PGP-Key: https://elephly.net/rekado.pubkey X-PGP-Fingerprint: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 08:18:11 +0200 Message-ID: <87mujusuho.fsf@elephly.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , me@tobias.gr, 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Bruno, >> > Ricardo, I think you had a patch to hide the =E2=80=98gcc=E2=80=99 pac= kage. Could you >> > commit it? >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99ve just done this. My apologies for the delay. Now a search = for >> =E2=80=9Cgcc=E2=80=9D only returns =E2=80=9Cgcc-toolchain=E2=80=9D (and = one =E2=80=9Cgcc-bootstrap=E2=80=9D). > > Will it also be hidden from the package list > https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/packages/G/ ? It should disappear from the list when it is regenerated, i.e. with the next release. --=20 Ricardo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 04:07:39 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 08:07:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37036 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP0Z9-0002a6-CO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 04:07:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41853) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP0Z4-0002Zn-Nf for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 04:07:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57985) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hP0Yw-0006uo-J5; Fri, 10 May 2019 04:07:28 -0400 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=51340 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hP0Yv-0007KR-Sj; Fri, 10 May 2019 04:07:26 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Bruno Haible Subject: Re: bug#35551: package gcc does not depend on binutils and glibc References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <87y33i2qv6.fsf@gnu.org> <87pnors4r3.fsf@elephly.net> <2986777.FnrGXkQkEc@omega> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 21 =?utf-8?Q?Flor=C3=A9al?= an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 10:07:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: <2986777.FnrGXkQkEc@omega> (Bruno Haible's message of "Thu, 09 May 2019 23:57:23 +0200") Message-ID: <877eay4ts3.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: Ricardo Wurmus , me@tobias.gr, 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Bruno, Bruno Haible skribis: >> > Ricardo, I think you had a patch to hide the =E2=80=98gcc=E2=80=99 pac= kage. Could you >> > commit it? >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99ve just done this. My apologies for the delay. Now a search = for >> =E2=80=9Cgcc=E2=80=9D only returns =E2=80=9Cgcc-toolchain=E2=80=9D (and = one =E2=80=9Cgcc-bootstrap=E2=80=9D). > > Will it also be hidden from the package list > https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/packages/G/ ? Yes, when we update it. > Being a newbie regarding guix, I found it more comfortable to search > for packages under https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/packages/ rather > than through some guix command. Oh, really? I would hope that =E2=80=98guix search=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98guix package -= -list-available=E2=80=99 are easier than anything else, and that people value the idea of doing things locally. Also, a local search gives the right result while a remote service might give results for a different Guix revision. Is there any specific reason why you were uncomfortable with these commands? I=E2=80=99m curious how we could improve the user experience her= e. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 05:38:40 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 09:38:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37117 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP1zE-0002XB-Jt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 05:38:40 -0400 Received: from mo4-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([85.215.255.20]:12515) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP1zB-0002X1-8Q for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 05:38:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1557481115; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=clisp.org; h=References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=SChlvN7tFGNPiTouVL4tDIUjTASkx7O2gFWYQOyptIQ=; b=qEtHVcor+nq0QN6bahVeB3JK3n1TFbr6m/q5lE8GMbPjIfrXX/mtYBjV/PdhHrEtKi Du8TYr5BEKDg7/tq+uyeMKnnENGHjNNobLj9vr1k10Bx1Jl97ssuwcdhFVI5TQzYexTJ nFS0X7j9lMXOm+SfoFiogJfNyxkCSPcon9wlovsgyCIxU78qg2piWZ3Lt6yc4G/zURh1 0mt6sRG5jiIxr3F7SPnqcD9F3REw8jV+HuSk0KAIA9hZabD/1dghsVLhYSFXwZvaLySG +jpTCG6HPXIhKBfYSnBYs5cAtd/19NhCXedZf60fqR72sHALjYH7YcHGAQjj8T+/qs5z r9dw== X-RZG-AUTH: ":Ln4Re0+Ic/6oZXR1YgKryK8brlshOcZlIWs+iCP5vnk6shH+AHjwLuWOGaf0y5RW" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from bruno.haible.de by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.18 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id m03afev4A9cW8sv (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 10 May 2019 11:38:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Bruno Haible To: Ludovic =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= Subject: Re: guix search Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 11:38:31 +0200 Message-ID: <3642152.sbCaK8LMaK@omega> User-Agent: KMail/5.1.3 (Linux/4.4.0-145-generic; KDE/5.18.0; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <877eay4ts3.fsf@gnu.org> References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <2986777.FnrGXkQkEc@omega> <877eay4ts3.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: Ricardo Wurmus , me@tobias.gr, 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Ludo, > I would hope that =E2=80=98guix search=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98guix package= --list-available=E2=80=99 are > easier than anything else, and that people value the idea of doing > things locally. Also, a local search gives the right result while a > remote service might give results for a different Guix revision. >=20 > Is there any specific reason why you were uncomfortable with these > commands? I=E2=80=99m curious how we could improve the user experience h= ere. Yes. I was looking for a package that contains the 'ssh' command. $ guix search ssh | less returns libssh, libssh2, guile2.0-ssh, guile-ssh, sshpass, ..., emacs-counsel-tramp. The answer I was looking for was 'openssh', but it was hidden among 66 packages. A search is good if the relevant results for the user occur among the first screen. Possible improvements include: 1) If the search term is X and installing the package would cause a program named X to appear in $PATH, then list this package first. This rule would have listed 'openssh' first. Also, for 'guix search gcc', it would now make 'gcc-toolchain' appear first (right?). 2) Another heuristic for presenting the "best" hits first: Sort the graph of the packages (using dependencies as graph edges). Then present the "base" packages (the packages which don't depend on other packages) first. This will likely make packages that are bindings (guile-ssh, ruby-net-ss= h, etc.) appear after openssh. 3) If the resulting list is longer than one screenful, present only the names, not names + details. Like $ guix search ssh | grep '^name:' would do. Even without the improvements 1) and 2), the command $ guix search ssh | grep '^name:' | grep ssh | sort produces a one-screenful result that I could have evaluated in 10 second= s. Bruno From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 06:17:43 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 10:17:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37221 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP2b1-0005b4-Ke for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 06:17:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40867) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP2az-0005ar-JV for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 06:17:42 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36134) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hP2ar-00088O-3F; Fri, 10 May 2019 06:17:33 -0400 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=51586 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hP2aq-0006Uh-2a; Fri, 10 May 2019 06:17:32 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Bruno Haible Subject: Re: guix search References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <2986777.FnrGXkQkEc@omega> <877eay4ts3.fsf@gnu.org> <3642152.sbCaK8LMaK@omega> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 21 =?utf-8?Q?Flor=C3=A9al?= an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 12:17:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: <3642152.sbCaK8LMaK@omega> (Bruno Haible's message of "Fri, 10 May 2019 11:38:31 +0200") Message-ID: <87sgtm1umd.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: Ricardo Wurmus , me@tobias.gr, 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Bruno, Bruno Haible skribis: >> I would hope that =E2=80=98guix search=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98guix packag= e --list-available=E2=80=99 are >> easier than anything else, and that people value the idea of doing >> things locally. Also, a local search gives the right result while a >> remote service might give results for a different Guix revision. >>=20 >> Is there any specific reason why you were uncomfortable with these >> commands? I=E2=80=99m curious how we could improve the user experience = here. > > Yes. I was looking for a package that contains the 'ssh' command. > $ guix search ssh | less > returns libssh, libssh2, guile2.0-ssh, guile-ssh, sshpass, ..., > emacs-counsel-tramp. > The answer I was looking for was 'openssh', but it was hidden > among 66 packages. I see. > A search is good if the relevant results for the user occur > among the first screen. > > Possible improvements include: > > 1) If the search term is X and installing the package would cause > a program named X to appear in $PATH, then list this package first. > > This rule would have listed 'openssh' first. Also, for 'guix search gc= c', > it would now make 'gcc-toolchain' appear first (right?). I agree that this would be great, but we don=E2=80=99t know beforehand what commands a package provides. For that we=E2=80=99d need to resort to an external service providing this info. > 2) Another heuristic for presenting the "best" hits first: > Sort the graph of the packages (using dependencies as graph edges). > Then present the "base" packages (the packages which don't depend on > other packages) first. > > This will likely make packages that are bindings (guile-ssh, ruby-net-= ssh, > etc.) appear after openssh. This sounds like an interesting option, at least when one is searching for an application and not for a library. > 3) If the resulting list is longer than one screenful, present only the > names, not names + details. Like > $ guix search ssh | grep '^name:' > would do. > Even without the improvements 1) and 2), the command > $ guix search ssh | grep '^name:' | grep ssh | sort > produces a one-screenful result that I could have evaluated in 10 seco= nds. OK, though you would have been unable to see the descriptions. Another option I thought of would be to display only the 10 results with the highest relevance by default, when stdout is a terminal. Thoughts? Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 06:18:56 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 10:18:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37229 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP2cC-0005d5-9s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 06:18:56 -0400 Received: from mo4-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([85.215.255.50]:22062) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP2c8-0005ct-LQ for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 06:18:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1557483530; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=clisp.org; h=References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=fx7GnuZwWKrOkgA2WDC5OV9gHB56NcxqjSMajjcHoKc=; b=KerCkhvPeJSMVCCQC8SnqupET5fnQFbXgqCSE7gQewh0+PvbeoZMl1NYnlVNW2amxA GSdts4xaaHIizCtEbLLGm0wVtlZFX8VIi3jEE7Gp3232+i3/XhAnxy1UJ5DrK0JsUmZf RUhHxmGS4iHdjoZBRIZcOXKOHKynpWYpxXVZBv9yV/RR5ZQgjtuCUeLmwRBSa/xKFDok N1mmGhA6jjfmxvF+W13CXu342bu5dREFOFlaZ4YUFd11RiggJ0YL1wJmBNGvff/1gLKO xUciJJJ9OAnJ7YtngCGSkZ0laYVRGAi8Y9rl16Aub3tIMUW1mO0di/YW40PxXWK/t8K2 9Z8Q== X-RZG-AUTH: ":Ln4Re0+Ic/6oZXR1YgKryK8brlshOcZlIWs+iCP5vnk6shH+AHjwLuWOGaf0y5RW" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from bruno.haible.de by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.18 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id m03afev4AAIn9Ds (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 10 May 2019 12:18:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Bruno Haible To: Ludovic =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= Subject: Re: guix search Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 12:18:48 +0200 Message-ID: <1979679.3VHG7dZlEs@omega> User-Agent: KMail/5.1.3 (Linux/4.4.0-145-generic; KDE/5.18.0; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <3642152.sbCaK8LMaK@omega> References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <877eay4ts3.fsf@gnu.org> <3642152.sbCaK8LMaK@omega> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: Ricardo Wurmus , me@tobias.gr, 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) I wrote: > 1) If the search term is X and installing the package would cause > a program named X to appear in $PATH, then list this package first. More precisely: If there is a package named X (perfect match), it should come first. The packages that install a program named X should come second. Bruno From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 06:22:20 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 10:22:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37239 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP2fU-0005iv-20 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 06:22:20 -0400 Received: from mo4-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([81.169.146.167]:22161) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP2fS-0005im-0g for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 06:22:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1557483736; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=clisp.org; h=References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=F05X66ZQB55ODIMYsUuCYt7ukZPlkEFxKrnKNtIG0so=; b=ReBKlx3S+Qrvc1X25DoOCmW81yg/NwCdya1AgMxlnTEN0o/YIMHz9mvtBwIg1Nc0Ox e+SgaLE7OxQa19pskN9oGfdDjd66Gc9HuxzrWSrOG6UuMLZZWFxBDvQhSdIFlmgaFq2L j4j0+BtISda0+vU2p10GWrY5splMPF05w345HzU2jjADmLgU4ghrSP5d3wrn4+d5a6OJ Za9P/eAlqsUWbXkHt2bKXq5ck2PUXr8WxovVYAvSprj0XJ2u+jeyZFSNh9lYGU4Ly26+ kwgLl/IjBBYlADnp6vxP3dIbti3dBBqwcAmDdBYADIKWNs/paOnKKV0wDhcAVvgA1QO8 zV7A== X-RZG-AUTH: ":Ln4Re0+Ic/6oZXR1YgKryK8brlshOcZlIWs+iCP5vnk6shH+AHjwLuWOGaf0y5RW" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from bruno.haible.de by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.18 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id m03afev4AAMG9Fc (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 10 May 2019 12:22:16 +0200 (CEST) From: Bruno Haible To: Ludovic =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= Subject: Re: guix search Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 12:22:16 +0200 Message-ID: <1649566.Jk3XjpCMXS@omega> User-Agent: KMail/5.1.3 (Linux/4.4.0-145-generic; KDE/5.18.0; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <87sgtm1umd.fsf@gnu.org> References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <3642152.sbCaK8LMaK@omega> <87sgtm1umd.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: Ricardo Wurmus , me@tobias.gr, 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Another option I thought of would be to display only the 10 results with > the highest relevance by default, when stdout is a terminal. That would be OK as a second step. But first, we should get the sort order (the notion of relevance) improved. Bruno From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 10:21:35 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 14:21:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38706 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP6P1-0001Ln-Br for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 10:21:35 -0400 Received: from mo4-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([81.169.146.166]:25303) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP6Ox-0001LY-5w for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 10:21:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1557498089; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=clisp.org; h=References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=iVzkGNNXhyO9WQZYgEzOiT3/1AuD+BPo9vx5q8Zg8BE=; b=svDPAd3qCwrnt0oHYwF+Zq+m+YWnK78CJFqiRW2yoB6nPcSPFN1XfTaeV0IbGYIMg1 lJFfccZOtfFTk0XHYAfzWuQZZH2WrcAVmWStE/gHot/EzKZnbkd6Z7Sjd9fTnOOQs/Mp 2liiV6xIODsZdqufoq+OXlMooMePF2KKnJncDpsMSY5UFTVGOQXhy2wwcpsx9nbq52JQ c0ICoyIkKsByD9TLg+XoQa0dy3sl3exGWc1oksBVPYGDs7uIeeOCkBzZpKdoEkQD6Mq7 xr32xwtgzTpT4nPPpGEPtrn1vbcWlJhaOkgKjIMsjSIeGWbk+2M3eDFy25nUyoe1VcLY 9Y3g== X-RZG-AUTH: ":Ln4Re0+Ic/6oZXR1YgKryK8brlshOcZlIWs+iCP5vnk6shH+AHjwLuWOGaf0y5RW" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from bruno.haible.de by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.18 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id m03afev4AELLBE7 (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 10 May 2019 16:21:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Bruno Haible To: Ludovic =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= Subject: Re: guix search Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 16:21:21 +0200 Message-ID: <6987474.668M4leDEz@omega> User-Agent: KMail/5.1.3 (Linux/4.4.0-145-generic; KDE/5.18.0; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <87sgtm1umd.fsf@gnu.org> References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <3642152.sbCaK8LMaK@omega> <87sgtm1umd.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: Ricardo Wurmus , me@tobias.gr, 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hi Ludo, > we don=E2=80=99t know beforehand what commands a package provides. Indeed, this information becomes available only while/after a package is built. > For that we=E2=80=99d need to resort to an external service providing thi= s info. Why would it need to be an external service? Can't you incorporate this information in a data file that you ship as part of the distribution? Bruno From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 11:17:43 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 15:17:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38781 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP7HL-0002ok-IH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 11:17:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40998) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP7HJ-0002oX-Tg for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 11:17:42 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47706) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hP7HA-0006EC-NL; Fri, 10 May 2019 11:17:32 -0400 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=52380 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hP7HA-0007Ix-0v; Fri, 10 May 2019 11:17:32 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Bruno Haible Subject: Re: guix search References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <3642152.sbCaK8LMaK@omega> <87sgtm1umd.fsf@gnu.org> <1649566.Jk3XjpCMXS@omega> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 21 =?utf-8?Q?Flor=C3=A9al?= an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 17:17:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1649566.Jk3XjpCMXS@omega> (Bruno Haible's message of "Fri, 10 May 2019 12:22:16 +0200") Message-ID: <87k1eyz6d2.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: Ricardo Wurmus , me@tobias.gr, 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Bruno Haible skribis: >> Another option I thought of would be to display only the 10 results with >> the highest relevance by default, when stdout is a terminal. > > That would be OK as a second step. But first, we should get the > sort order (the notion of relevance) improved. It=E2=80=99s tricky to map our intuition to actual metrics on the data that= we have, though. The current metrics used to compute the relevance score are here: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/tree/guix/ui.scm#n1406 Like I said, command names are not available in an off-line context. Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 11:43:26 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 15:43:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38824 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP7gE-0003Qy-1C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 11:43:26 -0400 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:51928) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP7gA-0003Qn-Ly for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 11:43:23 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A837630D99; Fri, 10 May 2019 17:43:20 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tky-YnE_o-Xx; Fri, 10 May 2019 17:43:19 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1557502997; bh=pSCYOeY7e5+NKi0d6GYA+lUxY4u7hcPR4p7MJCrZNBM=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=D/c6wwXS7m3lJjLIKJbQE8+uE8/4RyK/361WdUNEmgYXms2rfBk2a82WDy8Vqc7od rkVt10DMNUumNqNhe8uI3BAQvJuG4nw8ob6NGtGIvLAWd3JTcryb/8br73LlqU3765 NKsn6ywSOvsj3Gzt7Icb41YNwQGhm+IZsXxAOsbLXjEIzGE9PGIoSxuJ6OqKSnA4QT crC0BNanvOZF6PoKdiVzi/Q3UTiqMtWafaXQ5v3twXjOJs7Rhg6G8k7D7FNPxEr+u9 W+seiF++P3O9EY57JdCDSiS1b6yH0QZ7WiHVur6GDA9du+cXSoqFFqCPhXLTJxDnAq CVE4J4urSzHGg== Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 15:43:17 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: znavko@disroot.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#35551: guix search To: "Bruno Haible" , "=?utf-8?B?THVkb3ZpYyBDb3VydMOocw==?=" In-Reply-To: <1649566.Jk3XjpCMXS@omega> References: <1649566.Jk3XjpCMXS@omega> <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <3642152.sbCaK8LMaK@omega> <87sgtm1umd.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello!=0A=0A$ guix search video=0Ashows: vidstab, youtube-viewer, ffmpegt= humbnailer, xf86-video-mach64...=0AI'd better prefer this sorting:=0Avlc,= mpv, gnome-mpv, blender, avidemux, kdenlive...=0A=0ATo do so need to sor= t by popularity, using f.e. fsf site statistics.=0AThere is no other math= ematics methods like 'if this package provides ssh command in path'.=0ATh= e other way is to add own 'Relevance' field and to fill it manually or us= ing some statistic reasons.=0A=0A=0AMay 10, 2019 10:23 AM, "Bruno Haible"= wrote:=0A=0A>> Another option I thought of would be to= display only the 10 results with=0A>> the highest relevance by default, = when stdout is a terminal.=0A> =0A> That would be OK as a second step. Bu= t first, we should get the=0A> sort order (the notion of relevance) impro= ved.=0A> =0A> Bruno From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 17:15:35 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 21:15:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39253 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPCre-0002pF-N6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 17:15:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60774) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPCrc-0002p2-QW for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 17:15:33 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:55787) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hPCrV-0004i7-Ba; Fri, 10 May 2019 17:15:25 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=39318 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hPCrU-0005Ye-Ao; Fri, 10 May 2019 17:15:25 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Bruno Haible Subject: Re: guix search References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <3642152.sbCaK8LMaK@omega> <87sgtm1umd.fsf@gnu.org> <6987474.668M4leDEz@omega> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 21 =?utf-8?Q?Flor=C3=A9al?= an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 23:15:21 +0200 In-Reply-To: <6987474.668M4leDEz@omega> (Bruno Haible's message of "Fri, 10 May 2019 16:21:21 +0200") Message-ID: <8736lmypsm.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: Ricardo Wurmus , me@tobias.gr, 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Bruno Haible skribis: >> For that we=E2=80=99d need to resort to an external service providing th= is info. > > Why would it need to be an external service? Can't you incorporate > this information in a data file that you ship as part of the > distribution? Such a file would quickly become stale, it=E2=80=99d have to be updated fro= m an external service anyway. Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 17:22:51 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 21:22:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39272 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPCyg-00030f-Ph for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 17:22:51 -0400 Received: from mo4-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([85.215.255.25]:20936) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPCye-00030V-B4 for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 17:22:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1557523366; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=clisp.org; h=References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=N4G+SRW6Odd9pJmesaoXaWEj2NaefRuyTsw1QdrnGE8=; b=jEumraBUJqPrVmtNOcMuJoApHalJO3lUd2zE8QFyYEyP07djFwiD7jVG/NfyLPi1GM cNKXFbhMQ5ep9S5Z1EK4AiDEqoh2QkDvkcuiRd8g8ZnY9nxeT3rYVZn66cpU3xymF6am LNIOEpU9MkKE1l92VuRpnMhQ9hUzuvWEGmEIMUNREIJ9KUJREQaEApwZcGsyaXfDV50B w1PGf5zV5oUo+yyQ8ZHUCpprsDA9kVW6edjdJy+Tsrurdz3ch3AjcS7W1e7tL4sbCbq/ jRAAqcV89MheHEGm6YXkBsPG9FWEz3uf8YDHryq5lRgf89Zy4CXoJP8XiXEUeLSzh3Lr utbg== X-RZG-AUTH: ":Ln4Re0+Ic/6oZXR1YgKryK8brlshOcZlIWs+iCP5vnk6shH+AHjwLuWOGaf0y5RW" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from bruno.haible.de by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.18 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id m03afev4ALMjCWq (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 10 May 2019 23:22:45 +0200 (CEST) From: Bruno Haible To: znavko@disroot.org Subject: Re: bug#35551: guix search Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 23:22:45 +0200 Message-ID: <6894874.HcgqNShRvd@omega> User-Agent: KMail/5.1.3 (Linux/4.4.0-145-generic; KDE/5.18.0; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: <1649566.Jk3XjpCMXS@omega> <87sgtm1umd.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: Ludovic =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= , 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) znavko@disroot.org wrote: > $ guix search video > shows: vidstab, youtube-viewer, ffmpegthumbnailer, xf86-video-mach64... > I'd better prefer this sorting: > vlc, mpv, gnome-mpv, blender, avidemux, kdenlive... > > To do so need to sort by popularity, using f.e. fsf site statistics. +1. This approach would work with many more packages than the algorithmic approaches that I had suggested. Bruno From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 18:06:48 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 22:06:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39347 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPDfD-0006B8-1j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 18:06:47 -0400 Received: from world.peace.net ([64.112.178.59]:51994) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPDfB-0006Aw-SA for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 18:06:46 -0400 Received: from mhw by world.peace.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hPDf6-0005wY-6y; Fri, 10 May 2019 18:06:40 -0400 From: Mark H Weaver To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: bug#35551: guix search References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <3642152.sbCaK8LMaK@omega> <87sgtm1umd.fsf@gnu.org> <6987474.668M4leDEz@omega> <8736lmypsm.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 18:04:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8736lmypsm.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic \=\?utf-8\?Q\?Court\=C3\=A8s\=22'\?\= \=\?utf-8\?Q\?s\?\= message of "Fri, 10 May 2019 23:15:21 +0200") Message-ID: <87sgtm0xuw.fsf@netris.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Bruno Haible X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > Bruno Haible skribis: > >>> For that we=E2=80=99d need to resort to an external service providing t= his info. >> >> Why would it need to be an external service? Can't you incorporate >> this information in a data file that you ship as part of the >> distribution? > > Such a file would quickly become stale, it=E2=80=99d have to be updated f= rom an > external service anyway. If we add functionality that calls out to the network in response to a package search, e.g. to query popularity ratings or package file listings, we should make sure the user knows it's happening, and provide a way to disable it. Some users may not want information about their package searches to be leaked to the outside world. Thanks, Mark From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 18:38:48 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 22:38:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39390 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPEAB-0006w9-To for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 18:38:48 -0400 Received: from mo4-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([85.215.255.25]:18343) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPEAA-0006vz-3n for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 18:38:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1557527923; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=clisp.org; h=References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=yTeXWGPmW4Jip7asflUbIpAJqD91MtcOTZavqX0zS54=; b=AEAZ7ZFsaAQ25h3pX950Y5KiACjnvUL1327qrMB6MaODG8DxFH2SBDSMz2a7kqIzqs dUpsAVx00k65ac2tqVp8KHOD8WiXPTUgy7Ec8lfAotbx5Q/9Xji4HYPT+TeNmkImsLBX tIzwbVffTO7C7iBo8wQj1eai2N1tex6mPDXnYqUdlpbNUTgMz5ObLv8JljhRjUNXES9+ MyLHHwLP+ja/OFloWr+zEKMHKpyVduYHospMz5IgRYZDmKHy3Of+oNsWnkGRaLZQ49F6 YanD5810JVoSPzKJ9laDRTMZs89H988MeEYEyPJ8Klm7NtueOGxzn8SPKz9vRDU70yEV kG2g== X-RZG-AUTH: ":Ln4Re0+Ic/6oZXR1YgKryK8brlshOcZlIWs+iCP5vnk6shH+AHjwLuWOGaf0y5RW" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from bruno.haible.de by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.18 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id m03afev4AMcfClf (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Sat, 11 May 2019 00:38:41 +0200 (CEST) From: Bruno Haible To: Mark H Weaver Subject: Re: bug#35551: guix search Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 00:38:41 +0200 Message-ID: <1724203.DhVHnQV9by@omega> User-Agent: KMail/5.1.3 (Linux/4.4.0-145-generic; KDE/5.18.0; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <87sgtm0xuw.fsf@netris.org> References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <8736lmypsm.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgtm0xuw.fsf@netris.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: Ludovic =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= , 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Mark H Weaver wrote: > If we add functionality that calls out to the network in response to a > package search, e.g. to query popularity ratings or package file > listings, we should make sure the user knows it's happening, and provide > a way to disable it. Some users may not want information about their > package searches to be leaked to the outside world. Good point. Would it be more acceptable, upon 'guix search', to download an incremental update of a package popularity database, and do the search locally? This way, only the fact that the user has been doing a 'guix search' would be leaked to the outside world, not the search term. Bruno From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 19:41:45 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 23:41:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39445 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPF97-0008Ns-FF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 19:41:45 -0400 Received: from tobias.gr ([80.241.217.52]:41658) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPF93-0008Ng-KM for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 19:41:44 -0400 Received: by tobias.gr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 7fec39e2; Fri, 10 May 2019 23:41:33 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=tobias.gr; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=2018; i=me@tobias.gr; bh=RMDvHgmticCmv/4RLXf+yH OYgT+aLz/iAzf0dVwV8+Y=; b=YoQhKc0r5RH6563hfqsTYsEGSMmcfaUNSERcMe djTzUa+yl7HKBLmvGvv8Vo6wditn70FSkrh7PIAMsWr3aNN2DJ/zIfVxC0msguFh Xb4HttkAA84rMKfpBXV1sFXn4HEvB/DYbgiZzeJyCgao9VrspzTDWvQPkM53xEhY IQdy0aqpZWxFznEbyCTmJoMlLPxuspL2u1ukL5SfYBL18HtnS+BDZvtQQ6CTy1GW RdRreDX+hAjS14gbQUdB5o1wYEogXZHKvDT+mKQViI5S/4V+czkjP5SMj1ymzypa CY3+1WoyXXn8+Zz/BfKKYwOgAJw3qkEbkeNrHOgzNNu2oddQ== Received: by submission.tobias.gr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 83ad88fa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO); Fri, 10 May 2019 23:41:32 +0000 (UTC) From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice To: Bruno Haible Subject: Re: bug#35551: guix search References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <8736lmypsm.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgtm0xuw.fsf@netris.org> <1724203.DhVHnQV9by@omega> In-reply-to: <1724203.DhVHnQV9by@omega> Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 01:41:31 +0200 Message-ID: <877eaxzxlg.fsf@nckx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: Mark H Weaver , 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bruno Haible wrote: > Mark H Weaver wrote: >> If we add functionality that calls out to the network in=20 >> response to a >> package search, e.g. to query popularity ratings or package=20 >> file >> listings, we should make sure the user knows it's happening,=20 >> and provide >> a way to disable it. Some users may not want information about=20 >> their >> package searches to be leaked to the outside world. > > Good point. > > Would it be more acceptable, upon 'guix search', to download an=20 > incremental > update of a package popularity database, and do the search=20 > locally? This > way, only the fact that the user has been doing a 'guix search'=20 > would be > leaked to the outside world, not the search term. I don't think Mark intended to present it as a good idea at all=E2=80=A6=20 ;-) Popularity is irrelevant to search relevance. Kind regards, T G-R --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQT12iAyS4c9C3o4dnINsP+IT1VteQUCXNYMKwAKCRANsP+IT1Vt eTMAAQCmVb6wR9S41HLvmAdQjFPefjmEotyPA8C/P98mkOYj3AEArqpzVHpA/ne1 iT0kg1jAAcOL754Ju8J0cfgPUuYsOQ0= =LSLN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 11 14:20:29 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2019 18:20:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41028 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPWbl-0001Th-64 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 14:20:29 -0400 Received: from world.peace.net ([64.112.178.59]:53536) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPWbj-0001TT-1s for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 14:20:27 -0400 Received: from mhw by world.peace.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hPWbc-0006Gj-7a; Sat, 11 May 2019 14:20:20 -0400 From: Mark H Weaver To: Bruno Haible Subject: Re: bug#35551: guix search References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <8736lmypsm.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgtm0xuw.fsf@netris.org> <1724203.DhVHnQV9by@omega> Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 14:18:27 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1724203.DhVHnQV9by@omega> (Bruno Haible's message of "Sat, 11 May 2019 00:38:41 +0200") Message-ID: <874l6026sx.fsf@netris.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Bruno, Bruno Haible writes: > Mark H Weaver wrote: >> If we add functionality that calls out to the network in response to a >> package search, e.g. to query popularity ratings or package file >> listings, we should make sure the user knows it's happening, and provide >> a way to disable it. Some users may not want information about their >> package searches to be leaked to the outside world. > > Good point. > > Would it be more acceptable, upon 'guix search', to download an incremental > update of a package popularity database, and do the search locally? This > way, only the fact that the user has been doing a 'guix search' would be > leaked to the outside world, not the search term. Yes, that would address my concerns, although popularity ratings might be compact enough and change slowly enough that it might be sufficient to simply have them embedded in the Guix source code and manually updated periodically. Popularity ratings would also be useful to set build priorities on our build farms. The package file listings, on the other hand, are likely to be so large that it's not practical to download an incremental update of all of them. Thanks, Mark From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 11 14:40:28 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2019 18:40:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41051 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPWv5-0001ww-U3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 14:40:28 -0400 Received: from world.peace.net ([64.112.178.59]:53562) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPWv2-0001wd-Vj for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 14:40:25 -0400 Received: from mhw by world.peace.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hPWuw-0006Ol-Uf; Sat, 11 May 2019 14:40:19 -0400 From: Mark H Weaver To: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Subject: Re: bug#35551: guix search References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <8736lmypsm.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgtm0xuw.fsf@netris.org> <1724203.DhVHnQV9by@omega> <877eaxzxlg.fsf@nckx> Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 14:38:26 -0400 In-Reply-To: <877eaxzxlg.fsf@nckx> (Tobias Geerinckx-Rice's message of "Sat, 11 May 2019 01:41:31 +0200") Message-ID: <87zhnszvia.fsf@netris.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Bruno Haible X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Tobias, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice writes: > Bruno Haible wrote: >> Mark H Weaver wrote: >>> If we add functionality that calls out to the network in response >>> to a >>> package search, e.g. to query popularity ratings or package file >>> listings, we should make sure the user knows it's happening, and >>> provide >>> a way to disable it. Some users may not want information about >>> their >>> package searches to be leaked to the outside world. >> >> Good point. >> >> Would it be more acceptable, upon 'guix search', to download an >> incremental >> update of a package popularity database, and do the search locally? >> This >> way, only the fact that the user has been doing a 'guix search' >> would be >> leaked to the outside world, not the search term. > > I don't think Mark intended to present it as a good idea at all=E2=80=A6 = ;-) I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. While I have some privacy concerns, I'm not generally opposed to these ideas. > Popularity is irrelevant to search relevance. I agree that ideally, popularity shouldn't be relevant for searches. If we could apply sufficient intelligence to understand what the user is looking for, and sufficient knowledge of our packages to determine which ones meet those requirements, it would be best to ignore popularity. However, given the severe limitations of the intelligence we can apply to this problem, making use of popularity is an easy approach that tends to work fairly well in practice. Keep in mind that Google became dominant in the search market largely because of the success of their PageRank algorithm, which essentially orders results by popularity, although with greater weight given to the opinions of those who are themselves popular. It clearly works well. What do you think? Regards, Mark From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 13 03:58:01 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 May 2019 07:58:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43996 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hQ5qS-0001yY-Uv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 03:58:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36818) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hQ5qR-0001yN-Ml for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 03:58:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:40644) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQ5qL-00089Y-Fm; Mon, 13 May 2019 03:57:53 -0400 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=41860 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hQ5qK-0004Bq-Gq; Mon, 13 May 2019 03:57:52 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Mark H Weaver Subject: Re: bug#35551: guix search References: <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <8736lmypsm.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgtm0xuw.fsf@netris.org> <1724203.DhVHnQV9by@omega> <874l6026sx.fsf@netris.org> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 24 =?utf-8?Q?Flor=C3=A9al?= an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 09:57:50 +0200 In-Reply-To: <874l6026sx.fsf@netris.org> (Mark H. Weaver's message of "Sat, 11 May 2019 14:18:27 -0400") Message-ID: <877eauvla9.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Bruno Haible X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Mark, Mark H Weaver skribis: > Bruno Haible writes: > >> Mark H Weaver wrote: >>> If we add functionality that calls out to the network in response to a >>> package search, e.g. to query popularity ratings or package file >>> listings, we should make sure the user knows it's happening, and provide >>> a way to disable it. Some users may not want information about their >>> package searches to be leaked to the outside world. >> >> Good point. >> >> Would it be more acceptable, upon 'guix search', to download an incremen= tal >> update of a package popularity database, and do the search locally? This >> way, only the fact that the user has been doing a 'guix search' would be >> leaked to the outside world, not the search term. > > Yes, that would address my concerns, although popularity ratings might > be compact enough and change slowly enough that it might be sufficient > to simply have them embedded in the Guix source code and manually > updated periodically. > > Popularity ratings would also be useful to set build priorities on our > build farms. > > The package file listings, on the other hand, are likely to be so large > that it's not practical to download an incremental update of all of > them. FWIW, I like that there=E2=80=99s a purely off-line mode for =E2=80=98guix = search=E2=80=99, as is currently the case (after all, none of Guix relies on any single service so far, and I think that=E2=80=99s a nice property.) However, I think it=E2=80=99d be nice to have the option to enhance search results by resorting to external services=E2=80=94just like using a substit= ute service =E2=80=9Cenhances=E2=80=9D the user experience. I agree that the approach should rather be to download a complete database and operate locally on it, rather than give the exact query to the server. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 13 11:39:38 2019 Received: (at 35551-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 May 2019 15:39:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45974 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hQD3B-0007W4-Ng for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 11:39:38 -0400 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:36280) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hQD39-0007Vv-IF for 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 11:39:36 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63579310C1; Mon, 13 May 2019 17:39:33 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZhmN3WrCQynX; Mon, 13 May 2019 17:39:31 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1557761970; bh=jZus4hNWILwmdMY3TJtgBlzF+HiBzt7NpHS2EiXOiak=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=looa+xTLxdoaLHelRxF/fAlSPT4Ci/MzMQHoZvwI+f0M7Etw0s12OhtCoJfMHcaI8 ysMOS+wPkzwazTVUFPS9oRIS+oE5PzttZaRJC3niL8wUUP+QsCvVohig3FcuufuzgF sjM1DNZJByYekfmTMDuNaf8jX5d79023+IL7KlouTsyv4KPx8omiivJ9zxCoxcZ9W2 D3cyZr/2JgcnAadPevgxQn1GaFgRieYb81oDQXIbvnop9tPe/YuhZ5TIZaviw4po6y pUOcHqsBFEMKxusnfHrEkJAdHFYFVSS63gRtP6sLs/x5y7huQ81FPf+E7peXIUosjZ djSCpEOX3H7Bw== Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 15:39:29 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: znavko@disroot.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#35551: guix search To: "=?utf-8?B?THVkb3ZpYyBDb3VydMOocw==?=" , "Mark H Weaver" In-Reply-To: <877eauvla9.fsf@gnu.org> References: <877eauvla9.fsf@gnu.org> <1666426.mZ6LCf6Yd0@omega> <8736lmypsm.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgtm0xuw.fsf@netris.org> <1724203.DhVHnQV9by@omega> <874l6026sx.fsf@netris.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35551-done Cc: 35551-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Bruno Haible X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Thank you, Ludovic. It will be nice to have some additional fields comput= ed with Internet databases like:=0A=0ATag->name=0ATag->Relevance=0APurpos= e: editor, viewer, library, development tool=0AInterface: gui app, consol= e-only, console and gui, system calls=0A=0AFor every tag needs to determi= ne relevance.=0AFor example, package VLC:=0ATag->name: video=0ATag->relev= ance: 100=0ATag->name: view=0ATag->relevance: 90=0Aand other tags=0APurpo= se: viewer=0AInterface: gui app=0A=0AThis can give additional options for= search or just improve sorting when user type f.e. ' guix search video v= iewer'=0A=0A=0AMay 13, 2019 7:58 AM, "Ludovic Court=C3=A8s" wrote:=0A=0A> Hi Mark,=0A> =0A> Mark H Weaver skribis:= =0A> =0A>> Bruno Haible writes:=0A>> =0A>>> Mark H Weav= er wrote:=0A>> =0A>> If we add functionality that calls out to the networ= k in response to a=0A>> package search, e.g. to query popularity ratings = or package file=0A>> listings, we should make sure the user knows it's ha= ppening, and provide=0A>> a way to disable it. Some users may not want in= formation about their=0A>> package searches to be leaked to the outside w= orld.=0A>>> Good point.=0A>>> =0A>>> Would it be more acceptable, upon 'g= uix search', to download an incremental=0A>>> update of a package popular= ity database, and do the search locally? This=0A>>> way, only the fact th= at the user has been doing a 'guix search' would be=0A>>> leaked to the o= utside world, not the search term.=0A>> =0A>> Yes, that would address my = concerns, although popularity ratings might=0A>> be compact enough and ch= ange slowly enough that it might be sufficient=0A>> to simply have them e= mbedded in the Guix source code and manually=0A>> updated periodically.= =0A>> =0A>> Popularity ratings would also be useful to set build prioriti= es on our=0A>> build farms.=0A>> =0A>> The package file listings, on the = other hand, are likely to be so large=0A>> that it's not practical to dow= nload an incremental update of all of=0A>> them.=0A> =0A> FWIW, I like th= at there=E2=80=99s a purely off-line mode for =E2=80=98guix search=E2=80= =99, as=0A> is currently the case (after all, none of Guix relies on any = single=0A> service so far, and I think that=E2=80=99s a nice property.)= =0A> =0A> However, I think it=E2=80=99d be nice to have the option to enh= ance search=0A> results by resorting to external services=E2=80=94just li= ke using a substitute=0A> service =E2=80=9Cenhances=E2=80=9D the user exp= erience.=0A> =0A> I agree that the approach should rather be to download = a complete=0A> database and operate locally on it, rather than give the e= xact query to=0A> the server.=0A> =0A> Thanks,=0A> Ludo=E2=80=99. From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:40 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 11:24:08 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator