From unknown Sat Sep 20 15:43:29 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#35389 <35389@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#35389 <35389@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly Reply-To: bug#35389 <35389@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2025 22:43:29 +0000 retitle 35389 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables di= rectly reassign 35389 emacs submitter 35389 Robert Pluim severity 35389 minor tag 35389 fixed patch thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 23 05:48:03 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2019 09:48:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52406 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hIs1z-0008C1-Dz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 05:48:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49235) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hIs1t-0008BN-RB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 05:48:01 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:57653) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIs1o-00015c-BC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 05:47:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35377) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIs1n-000211-3E for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 05:47:52 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIs1l-00014h-N4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 05:47:50 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x329.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::329]:55913) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIs1l-000147-GO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 05:47:49 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x329.google.com with SMTP id o25so17828470wmf.5 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 02:47:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=wO+sD9g+2uhlJcKFl9M5RWttoFQr2FzWcZSUZ1H5rLg=; b=lFeb9ktMLNCB3xosDyUPo3KKwp+mJ8PLyXexVvl75kISEr6O9t8kWBMhooH7tnAtv5 wydVW77NEotK5hp6rLc3j/fmgA9LuWbBj0Zo5b7HTIS9oAcI+LPNYuoK8kkAEG/DaK3U HnbJuvcHUduhOvB6QwV1HOFvvSnvjakswcKZ/VgLjMwZ27LP3VfAYtKYk01BpEdPI9iW D5SPU9ct6nXOsRYF89pigqwrO89mUmqc+mctx5dQjNZFMJlVPksgqzI2YIvQScuGBIGr D35y7Nndc4f0Qxw4YpzUbk3CgEm7//XW+teTergzK34melf10ok2n6tttGYsTPm0rlEw 2L9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=wO+sD9g+2uhlJcKFl9M5RWttoFQr2FzWcZSUZ1H5rLg=; b=So3lCzpXB4zacOPwp52VyRG376IUBbIur2f6/2j9aMjReLZqOmlmcj4j1r/7oL3M8E bl/egnwFQXRFbygAZ1yE4hTkMCGGRxOS40heqgN3ClnbX6fKAIcwYEAOgmfP75e4wnYT uHut0j8FgvWMlMumhlbJpR+jWYiIFhMIjzh0g9TxU4IS5KkkIozmWC1pz+8h44Z7l7Yu gt+AJQHfWBXcBbkYySDxm3DfrLdgtaeL8Gd4m9yCFVEF+fg62vG0gwDII+DJmrBBeWv9 jzKzgz/76Zmkf+oDa+jUOA4BYnZrmUlQSACBfv9qodisG7TEE3WdMWiQnlqPfFKWWe3M 1I6g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUyPEshh6TmYIBAyGPsqwtuM8Qs+jeliIzIomgS1s5Z/sF/Q+6A aQSxkXSbIQP2E6iDwEBQCb2bCfEm X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxwJQuqqXsUyZwdklGZLAatQBU+jifZ1SgjQMXjdIe7q6ldFhgLCGHod1uG5gu0AwPFeitD6Q== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:249:: with SMTP id 9mr1568499wmj.149.1556012867115; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 02:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rpluim-mac ([149.5.228.1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u6sm28586136wrg.72.2019.04.23.02.47.44 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 23 Apr 2019 02:47:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:47:43 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::329 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) I use the cus-edit+ package, which prompts you to save unsaved customizations when you exit emacs. This triggers for me all the time, because lisp/term/ns-win.el does 'setq' on mouse-wheel-scroll-amount and mouse-wheel-progressive-speed, which I think is a no-no. The patch below fixes it for me, but I=CA=BCm utterly ignorant of customize, so perhaps it=CA=BCs not the correct fix. diff --git a/lisp/term/ns-win.el b/lisp/term/ns-win.el index 6a668b213d..7899cbec3e 100644 --- a/lisp/term/ns-win.el +++ b/lisp/term/ns-win.el @@ -737,23 +737,15 @@ ns-version-string (defvar mouse-wheel-scroll-amount) (defvar mouse-wheel-progressive-speed) =20 -;; FIXME: This doesn't look right. Is there a better way to do this -;; that keeps customize happy? (when (featurep 'cocoa) (let ((appkit-version (progn (string-match "^appkit-\\([^\s-]*\\)" ns-version-string) (string-to-number (match-string 1 ns-version-string))))) ;; Appkit 1138 ~=3D macOS 10.7. (when (>=3D appkit-version 1138) - (setq mouse-wheel-scroll-amount '(1 ((shift) . 5) ((control)))) - (put 'mouse-wheel-scroll-amount 'customized-value - (list (custom-quote (symbol-value 'mouse-wheel-scroll-amount)))) - - (setq mouse-wheel-progressive-speed nil) - (put 'mouse-wheel-progressive-speed 'customized-value - (list (custom-quote - (symbol-value 'mouse-wheel-progressive-speed))))))) - + (custom-set-variables + (list 'mouse-wheel-scroll-amount ''(1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) t) + (list 'mouse-wheel-progressive-speed nil t))))) =20 ;;;; Color support. =20 In GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 6, x86_64-apple-darwin18.2.0, NS appkit-1671.20= Version 10.14.3 (Build 18D109)) of 2019-04-19 built on rpluim-mac Repository revision: e8124bfaaf8ba4a07beb4151fa7c5789a7de549c Repository branch: master Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.1671 System Description: Mac OS X 10.14.3 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 23 07:17:35 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2019 11:17:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52559 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hItQd-0001wM-LH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 07:17:35 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f174.google.com ([209.85.160.174]:43295) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hItQa-0001w6-DQ for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 07:17:32 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f174.google.com with SMTP id i14so15515616qtr.10 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 04:17:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HsMQEkNFq7N7CMLBPujt3Kq+07lzyLbqPnaGbWGGnbU=; b=ZvuFpnk2s1mUI6sBXc6rHu5IhzLss7a42sSPb2ORzlFpxhxMuhFQwurIaEKgTTWlsI qrYkKhx6BFLFivigCjRmD9yycqjChGMT31pPdgV4njbFaOEEsIdb9BVlfejQaJUxVAk1 qjCDC/L3rU13+eugrtAAUQ7qCXvefmytPs5l8XFyHuk38YYbJuPHxrHrPK+uxzZSL2Us jy8Cm2OtE7PNoTXFWxoTNecrMRBG7CZWxR0A62tvpHtpeXzTLD9wBDUL6YI+T01ZMyoT 8GN73Sn5QbVz+PP4AjN+iV5ALapQbH6k2B2O0lVt04uZ1HkCTRx3ocxJ8zchwIGOsu8A zBfA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HsMQEkNFq7N7CMLBPujt3Kq+07lzyLbqPnaGbWGGnbU=; b=T8jL9FLjACj/zn7KtZmyOQZKxkzLGjMRbMLTC7QCdEcUUoNZ2ohDNMbQL5foqal/Vx SR8nMYBGgo19EsLP2nUcwKIALgOKtU5eXXnYK4+NAxNaWnkp3HoNecpx9JrFR7rsGkeR aoPtySdQykF3oVc+I+4vO8XVSjmvqouFRK+i2EehIGR3Ag3E1SHH7WHis6uUyl3K7Niw DHG6Y/MvB5ZxF8vw6SN9+PNo3zrUCtyza2A1GoL24M70Gn8MFES7hZEwoUbEwX3mDLiE S+3zveuwYWdZj4wWfxcCulsb+TnlWu0ncrvDkQK2Fk3/m3wKXBwR9XmK26w+do1udpSn d93w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVOjNO2MP3wMaPFEsaWWlgf+J0h95DWcXXMiCMkzX+eIPJXBS+T GgLJj3WhtlL1T5yj/tk51ajXNppx X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxaGQvZUiTyRgSw0VwSFgsx+MA/+5zdwab2uo7/wI0hSfo8UHStMurcyicMSyIGSRoO823MHw== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:6bc2:: with SMTP id b2mr10777557qtt.316.1556018246764; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 04:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from minid (cbl-45-2-119-34.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca. [45.2.119.34]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id u3sm7462466qkc.21.2019.04.23.04.17.25 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 23 Apr 2019 04:17:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Postavsky To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 07:17:24 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Robert Pluim's message of "Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:47:43 +0200") Message-ID: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Robert Pluim writes: > I use the cus-edit+ package, which prompts you to save unsaved > customizations when you exit emacs. This triggers for me all the time, > because lisp/term/ns-win.el does 'setq' on mouse-wheel-scroll-amount > and mouse-wheel-progressive-speed, which I think is a no-no. The patch > below fixes it for me, but I=CA=BCm utterly ignorant of customize, so > perhaps it=CA=BCs not the correct fix. I think it should work to change customized-value to standard-value. --- i/lisp/term/ns-win.el +++ w/lisp/term/ns-win.el @@ -746,11 +746,11 @@ (when (featurep 'cocoa) ;; Appkit 1138 ~=3D macOS 10.7. (when (>=3D appkit-version 1138) (setq mouse-wheel-scroll-amount '(1 ((shift) . 5) ((control)))) - (put 'mouse-wheel-scroll-amount 'customized-value + (put 'mouse-wheel-scroll-amount 'standard-value (list (custom-quote (symbol-value 'mouse-wheel-scroll-amount)))) =20 (setq mouse-wheel-progressive-speed nil) - (put 'mouse-wheel-progressive-speed 'customized-value + (put 'mouse-wheel-progressive-speed 'standard-value (list (custom-quote (symbol-value 'mouse-wheel-progressive-speed))))))) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 23 07:39:09 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2019 11:39:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52576 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hItlV-0004Uq-GR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 07:39:09 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f48.google.com ([209.85.221.48]:42863) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hItlT-0004UU-Ms for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 07:39:08 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f48.google.com with SMTP id g3so19770007wrx.9 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 04:39:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-copies-to:gmane-reply-to-list :date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ia+17ahXBOhiNM3hCddKTlRhTkkGhLQ1WXS089KFwuw=; b=dxhiskrcplAcU4CiPzJsrtArbWW1kuNhfdn8YLqCSB4wYc8dc1Pkvk2rWbOkoKVHia VyQCsr2jEuiH7wdGoiAa4ZOwoX/ltgzpkXh63ozv9pDMUKE9RiMVD1kN88ohW+K3hezT 7EZrwNK4n+XnFFMhIERovEl/C9PE4RxNLBvpeiTFJuOfWeFlJv/krV5GBDfqdrFq/QfU 0VRrDsieru8YqxGfqQGOXUBqzu4SLYsiXpeOwvtKlKNRo+0ayb/9MF28LnNn/hkCH9Ke owAFknGQbaAQbF1CTxGBn2EZViyxhfIuOKGLMC024kYxG21AeByMfU10rWRDsKHio6av cU+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-copies-to :gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ia+17ahXBOhiNM3hCddKTlRhTkkGhLQ1WXS089KFwuw=; b=HmCYOSzfABEookGZKNmgPjI2iUE+2bUwIBHaiFng4pX860z2kOjd1VCLQzIPPI0eHs lXgzKKPkBvXIiBRNMq2LLq/Mz42re7fJyrKLZZU6Nmdx3U8ndBBe3fRARXR1SkQgI13a fddU9RFIgKAtoheg/a/J+QxD5kuUEchzRCDXIB1jWgm89E0lhGMSmWx51nJJw5W6pi8+ K7+e2mOkg2oA/nJ8Bjt7hlUBp3desH1Id3BL4XO9JwD3LTwDnt2WLWfHjA68w9YXiodY UbFDTvqZFyUfQykNI9nY5/4S75dubFZw6COoe1/vNuI0IoL7cqH6anqQguTHk963kL8j hkBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUT/CUTqbvOpJ2H89QZOS7Z8nfealzc9cuv/Lp5vw7Zzx7qedqH pelUchDv2YsGqFyUf27jEJLZDiQ+ X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx1jlr26c54auyJ7qyrD1frGljXy6k6n0YTgTjJyqIRRiYehF7kHdddyHWmax9MLuoxvl0KhA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f110:: with SMTP id r16mr17239958wro.153.1556019541316; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 04:39:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rpluim-mac ([149.5.228.1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v16sm5009310wrt.34.2019.04.23.04.39.00 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 23 Apr 2019 04:39:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Noam Postavsky Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes Mail-Copies-To: never Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:38:59 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> (Noam Postavsky's message of "Tue, 23 Apr 2019 07:17:24 -0400") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 07:17:24 -0400, Noam Postavsky said: Noam> Robert Pluim writes: >> I use the cus-edit+ package, which prompts you to save unsaved >> customizations when you exit emacs. This triggers for me all >> the time, because lisp/term/ns-win.el does 'setq' on >> mouse-wheel-scroll-amount and mouse-wheel-progressive-speed, >> which I think is a no-no. The patch below fixes it for me, but >> I=CA=BCm utterly ignorant of customize, so perhaps it=CA=BCs not the >> correct fix. Noam> I think it should work to change customized-value to Noam> standard-value. That works, thanks. I=CA=BCll run with for a while then push to master. Robert From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 11:29:58 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 15:29:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38811 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP7TB-00036x-OO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 11:29:57 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-f68.google.com ([209.85.208.68]:39037) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hP7T9-00036k-8a for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 11:29:55 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-f68.google.com with SMTP id e24so5640480edq.6 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 10 May 2019 08:29:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=n3TJSVSuFfXptg+fdclToLlaAJBEZWcOgtzyKlvZoVU=; b=aHbjlq8js+0SflQFLubEv4NCDYVbzeZn5Q3Ini1F99wXbFGLDRaANchs0aDs517sTw NYJSgRMpWDwIJ1kBmHtVDNKx136bMgK6yLmI6iRFqx4aYUlrwORTFsIetd0Y1GFxOyG0 eaz6Ky6erIv4q3H9UaW4+1+MECILJYbywrxHvP5I4sSigEbT6ty/SjqozRSxCwNFTtJb 0ZFszzdoGNgv4VLTBPjsn4QcrjDG6kTjdToNVmlo+jf0RjKMY8fFo+43X8H+tARXcAVB 45KsKXHZ73U2UBB8oe+Y3lo+9vhHiMHzy92YOt3vigNFMxjR3qJ5vZneW9fK5rfGaa71 f3VA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=n3TJSVSuFfXptg+fdclToLlaAJBEZWcOgtzyKlvZoVU=; b=IsKpjhYpq6ZBrHmFBoC9u9rytANZ1X95nkGyjt/Irz3B6HnM0af5iGyofTSKoH05U+ e+buTZ7kMZSCNHAexzttkYOlNFcjVS9j7+cUMJFtaUXRXABG9IlBcNYluxsnuDcNOKx1 rAFHD7Rptd6cbQ1VygIjIewx7d4IiBfkvzFK2m0zJRk/lS3uJuAouFsd/Ppcv3aI3qGs x2lJ4W6K36edC6AsYmHmD8/NIMu1Wy78yUb8XEdmwAj/CKYmPuNUw0VYOYX+BQvx2oKg Y/TsZ4vd05+CfTIE69oJwdItdRp/JugXWilO87dIR5pe7tz4+Eir0SxpfUlMxHOjXjqX uFWw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVq4/SJa/3jVVPAQOd40ObW4CBnhmMg+OpYHePd7/bs9alQjN/k GrQkqC2bhcAbWB8tD6tJzASuok8f X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy/bnw8lpe+vJSKJBx7brWgjz78/0ICX0XxM+g+VQ0AYblOdZdoFlexhIulh+IAluiME3Po4w== X-Received: by 2002:a50:95af:: with SMTP id w44mr11720641eda.95.1557502189069; Fri, 10 May 2019 08:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rpluim-mac ([149.5.228.1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l5sm1516102edb.50.2019.05.10.08.29.47 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 10 May 2019 08:29:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Noam Postavsky Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 17:29:46 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Robert Pluim's message of "Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:38:59 +0200") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:38:59 +0200, Robert Pluim s= aid: >>>>> On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 07:17:24 -0400, Noam Postavsky said: Noam> I think it should work to change customized-value to Noam> standard-value. Robert> That works, thanks. I=CA=BCll run with for a while then push to Robert> master. Having thought about this some more, does it make more sense to put the value for macOS in the defcustoms for mouse-wheel-scroll-amount and mouse-wheel-progressive-speed instead? (and discarding the test for macOS < 10.7 at the same time) i.e. diff --git a/lisp/mwheel.el b/lisp/mwheel.el index 23f491db0f..4bed5b981d 100644 --- a/lisp/mwheel.el +++ b/lisp/mwheel.el @@ -85,7 +85,10 @@ mouse-wheel-inhibit-click-time :group 'mouse :type 'number) =20 -(defcustom mouse-wheel-scroll-amount '(5 ((shift) . 1) ((control) . nil)) +(defcustom mouse-wheel-scroll-amount + (if (featurep 'cocoa) + '(1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) + '(5 ((shift) . 1) ((control) . nil))) "Amount to scroll windows by when spinning the mouse wheel. This is an alist mapping the modifier key to the amount to scroll when the wheel is moved with the modifier key depressed. @@ -119,15 +122,20 @@ mouse-wheel-scroll-amount (const :tag "Full screen" :value nil) (integer :tag "Specific # of lines") (float :tag "Fraction of window"))))) - :set 'mouse-wheel-change-button) + :set 'mouse-wheel-change-button + :version "27.1") =20 -(defcustom mouse-wheel-progressive-speed t +(defcustom mouse-wheel-progressive-speed + (if (featurep 'cocoa) + nil + t) "If non-nil, the faster the user moves the wheel, the faster the scrolli= ng. Note that this has no effect when `mouse-wheel-scroll-amount' specifies a \"near full screen\" scroll or when the mouse wheel sends key instead of button events." :group 'mouse - :type 'boolean) + :type 'boolean + :version "27.1") =20 (defcustom mouse-wheel-follow-mouse t "Whether the mouse wheel should scroll the window that the mouse is over. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 15:53:49 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 19:53:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39140 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPBaV-0000uR-Qg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 15:53:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46755) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPBaU-0000uE-6n for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 15:53:46 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53300) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hPBaO-0003k9-91; Fri, 10 May 2019 15:53:40 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1666 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hPBaN-0000uk-Kz; Fri, 10 May 2019 15:53:40 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 22:53:33 +0300 Message-Id: <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Robert Pluim In-reply-to: (message from Robert Pluim on Fri, 10 May 2019 17:29:46 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Robert Pluim > Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 17:29:46 +0200 > Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org > > Having thought about this some more, does it make more sense to put > the value for macOS in the defcustoms for mouse-wheel-scroll-amount > and mouse-wheel-progressive-speed instead? (and discarding the test for > macOS < 10.7 at the same time) i.e. Why does that system configuration need a different default to begin with? In general, having different defaults on different systems is not a good idea. Also, the original patch mentioned a specific version of appkit, whereas this one is more general, AFAIU. Wouldn't that cause trouble or surprise elsewhere? Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 10 17:25:42 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2019 21:25:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39283 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPD1S-00036N-Ki for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 17:25:42 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f50.google.com ([209.85.221.50]:39474) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPD1Q-000368-RH for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2019 17:25:41 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f50.google.com with SMTP id w8so6869316wrl.6 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 10 May 2019 14:25:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=/hdFG+zfqXmkbzfv5ZI0Hrjg8lLC9kW2yyzOm80dYZA=; b=GMTOTyaiBiSUiFgoPGBdH/JMVxhTaATaTbMiCd3ejdCYs5O6/+zQ8xeeSlIZ6MhwNc mqGDvdlK+sjY74rAySn5d1U+Ztmtrh5mCnoYjWFp1rPBKhmT/+vaxZM8ztJ6JumHE3j9 2+k8RZ2mzcEiwc0MhrPhHdzD7zr6At7TV0hrvPDXUbMHYySGKOmM2YeckkHTnCxjlM4V zsksEQ+JVAfpRamNrk3oQ4tl3KSyvFNQgjcwF/CjshATNq5jas8Feezo4zJ0IWc1xjsm ju13p0LxC7mV4S5heWuLuwlnboVhrzImw+/bLKxs9uO9Q4IGH+Vv22+fWGn7tufoyrAm rIfQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=/hdFG+zfqXmkbzfv5ZI0Hrjg8lLC9kW2yyzOm80dYZA=; b=IQUOrUmGKr9aouoaxRnqLfkI+VDIGoVmcQ9L3lAwNpmBQ3sYJ686yPpGo2vdljXtb/ eHgJrKXGYVNeqOmkUrZleu8SKjaVeezbyIsd+XlwQCTMyBjMXu6EW8LV+paeFJzfPo4C YQcWQdyZRKewbXuxF7K/aEoGWXE0N8eW/+gj8aNpSstyWBeB/pF9M3FefBpMmC8emZ+3 Bpus8jAgx/q176BQ6EkE5ScCgABOffKd8TcVadB6xv+/IA7GiAgADuY/Iaf/vVo4rfPh QRMIf3PcNlFlTZIHgxYSBFLR3+vHAiNR0x6O1brAy3qvifg8ujeOBqypDQasnhrui0ff sjvw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWuS3Ghi42rWZsAqTgddUUL83Ai6TwEDEHog6v++bzyfR5rvNBv zICOncRCc/JFUTMCq7tx76A= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxsx3JuPcmbKTE5szo5Rv1/S5pvNPbkUKmkff8wPmRnRremtTurwtN5ZTlBw2rjEraO52N4kg== X-Received: by 2002:adf:e2c3:: with SMTP id d3mr9314481wrj.189.1557523534167; Fri, 10 May 2019 14:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from breton.holly.idiocy.org (ip6-2001-08b0-03f8-8129-85f9-9fdd-bdd0-2fbb.holly.idiocy.org. [2001:8b0:3f8:8129:85f9:9fdd:bdd0:2fbb]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b12sm13240473wrf.21.2019.05.10.14.25.32 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 10 May 2019 14:25:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 22:25:31 +0100 From: Alan Third To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly Message-ID: <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.3 (2019-02-01) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Pluim , npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:53:33PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Robert Pluim > > Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 17:29:46 +0200 > > Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Having thought about this some more, does it make more sense to put > > the value for macOS in the defcustoms for mouse-wheel-scroll-amount > > and mouse-wheel-progressive-speed instead? (and discarding the test for > > macOS < 10.7 at the same time) i.e. > > Why does that system configuration need a different default to begin > with? In general, having different defaults on different systems is > not a good idea. macOS 10.7+ handles wheel scrolling differently from how other systems handle it. If we stick with the defaults then it becomes uncontrollably fast, the current defaults make it feel similar to X, Windows, etc. IIRC, fixing it in C is probably possible, but not as straight forward as just changing the defaults. There was discussion of it in Emacs devel at the time and only one person objected, but later changed their mind. > Also, the original patch mentioned a specific version of appkit, > whereas this one is more general, AFAIU. Wouldn't that cause trouble > or surprise elsewhere? We still support macOS 10.6, which behaves similarly to X and Windows. Changing the defaults for it would result in unexpected behaviour. -- Alan Third From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 11 02:12:27 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2019 06:12:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39728 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPLFD-0002Fo-6e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 02:12:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43157) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPLFC-0002Fb-5j for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 02:12:26 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35503) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hPLF6-000673-Es; Sat, 11 May 2019 02:12:20 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3768 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hPLF5-0005Qy-CY; Sat, 11 May 2019 02:12:19 -0400 Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 09:12:13 +0300 Message-Id: <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Alan Third In-reply-to: <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> (message from Alan Third on Fri, 10 May 2019 22:25:31 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 22:25:31 +0100 > From: Alan Third > Cc: Robert Pluim , 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, > npostavs@gmail.com > > > Why does that system configuration need a different default to begin > > with? In general, having different defaults on different systems is > > not a good idea. > > macOS 10.7+ handles wheel scrolling differently from how other systems > handle it. If we stick with the defaults then it becomes > uncontrollably fast, the current defaults make it feel similar to X, > Windows, etc. > > IIRC, fixing it in C is probably possible, but not as straight forward > as just changing the defaults. There was discussion of it in Emacs > devel at the time and only one person objected, but later changed > their mind. Could there be some internal variable, either in Lisp or in C, which we then would use in the default value, as some unit, instead of just number of wheel turns and number of lines? Then we could set that internal variable to different values, but keep the customization the same in those internally-defined units. I think that would be somewhat cleaner, if possible and reasonable, because we'd be able to document the customization in these units in a platform-independent way. If that's impractical, then I guess we'll have to live with this inconsistency, although I personally consider it a slippery slope. At the very least it should be documented, in NEWS if not in the manual. > > Also, the original patch mentioned a specific version of appkit, > > whereas this one is more general, AFAIU. Wouldn't that cause trouble > > or surprise elsewhere? > > We still support macOS 10.6, which behaves similarly to X and Windows. > Changing the defaults for it would result in unexpected behaviour. Are you saying that testing the OS version and testing the appkit version yield the same result in this case? Or are you saying that testing the appkit version is simply incorrect? Because that was my concern. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 11 05:54:26 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2019 09:54:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39907 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPOhz-0007wG-S6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 05:54:24 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f53.google.com ([209.85.128.53]:35005) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPOhx-0007w3-PE for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 05:54:22 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f53.google.com with SMTP id q15so5549743wmj.0 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 11 May 2019 02:54:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-copies-to:gmane-reply-to-list :date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sr3aRlA6jTjVBBgXRNB6OSiwwd15t3ScMz8oizrtF70=; b=O+i+EYHTWBspezlOG2ffbUdRCF1lOQ5qGoOxfyQop9T8J08HeE2PqTGxAlAdiJCuER eVvYgDjEFLvWjdfFGUcmAaRZRi3gnG6voJEvWFdeb/9un70YC36r2LonY1gb/Yc2FWcG a26VwQAMZomzk2bwddKs4YP5ox1WNIUI4NirNftM1Usts+ObPKE8M2v/EeyPTpntPeCk zK0DSKSGx5/MsXflKk3iFhGWmh9CRmYkD/gh4LsL+ZFsvBR8qu7/EFAN1wySJ1V8pWx9 Z+aElWi8LHZhkME2sXhCZX0PcndacVtQz8+kZKW8ZDXzhIJ/+wfsNB2Nnimg8h1OECGL IJbw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-copies-to :gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=sr3aRlA6jTjVBBgXRNB6OSiwwd15t3ScMz8oizrtF70=; b=dVBS6zmG5kwVIHaUlBH6EtILwNYY1NTak/2IN7gTUF8J/C1h1QoV8aHcpxkcJX2VaL 6waD13O7I5KxT1TEyl4PQvW/w75OQDDwDSL4HE4ukdwQkcF7Upo0MK5zmj3QeUxJbi1n P7zkh/kkj7UvnbFgdH2hdFptGucx/QSIdTv/YOSG0t8jmykOC+u2wnKQwPoR55kx962U XJ80J8G61If55MwqIabRW+I6I6VzbBZMdIvQUppSqk7KOflNiv/TJW3CsfGsK6s9NtqD skeNYxoUnnxhlqg5u0ukIrkJov1tjQ9pQNo6kX3PIDPxTGNYIr1EQhlam0aMntMwDLIx XNAQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW2nyMx2UQew8y5po/ZCB5cUviSIZ1sqCvyxsAHeREdDYMTLe+v OoYA5TOe/SjPIL83FwlYJBk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxeYTgkGhWPWy2uTp/8Uouul0VDGwqrBRWrws5sT0dgldF+udBBPZ7SJnosyo+Y0m73m/EHgQ== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:cc01:: with SMTP id f1mr9469194wmh.78.1557568455704; Sat, 11 May 2019 02:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rpluim-mac ([2a01:e34:ecfc:a860:5197:f2f2:1d4e:f66b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o6sm19239859wrh.55.2019.05.11.02.54.13 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 11 May 2019 02:54:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes Mail-Copies-To: never Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 11:54:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 11 May 2019 09:12:13 +0300") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, Alan Third , npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Sat, 11 May 2019 09:12:13 +0300, Eli Zaretskii said: >> Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 22:25:31 +0100 From: Alan Third >> Cc: Robert Pluim , >> 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@gmail.com >>=20 >> > Why does that system configuration need a different default >> to begin > with? In general, having different defaults on >> different systems is > not a good idea. >>=20 >> macOS 10.7+ handles wheel scrolling differently from how other >> systems handle it. If we stick with the defaults then it >> becomes uncontrollably fast, the current defaults make it feel >> similar to X, Windows, etc. >>=20 >> IIRC, fixing it in C is probably possible, but not as straight >> forward as just changing the defaults. There was discussion of >> it in Emacs devel at the time and only one person objected, but >> later changed their mind. Could you give a time range for when that was discussed? Eli> Could there be some internal variable, either in Lisp or in Eli> C, which we then would use in the default value, as some Eli> unit, instead of just number of wheel turns and number of Eli> lines? Then we could set that internal variable to different Eli> values, but keep the customization the same in those Eli> internally-defined units. I think that would be somewhat Eli> cleaner, if possible and reasonable, because we'd be able to Eli> document the customization in these units in a Eli> platform-independent way. I can=CA=BCt think of a single variable you could use to transform (5 ((shift) . 1) ((control) . nil))) to (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) unless you want to start doing 'on macOS >=3D 10.7, divide by 5 if no modifiers, multiply by five if shift', which could be done in lisp in `mwheel-scroll', but it feels very hacky. (as an aside ((control) . nil) is the same as ((control)), so we should change one or the other) Eli> If that's impractical, then I guess we'll have to live with Eli> this inconsistency, although I personally consider it a Eli> slippery slope. At the very least it should be documented, Eli> in NEWS if not in the manual. Noam's original suggestion of patching ns-win.el might be best, then, as it avoids any changes to the defcustom's. >> > Also, the original patch mentioned a specific version of >> appkit, > whereas this one is more general, AFAIU. Wouldn't >> that cause trouble > or surprise elsewhere? >>=20 >> We still support macOS 10.6, which behaves similarly to X and >> Windows. Changing the defaults for it would result in >> unexpected behaviour. Thanks, I wasn't sure if 10.6 was still supported, so we'll have to cater for that. Eli> Are you saying that testing the OS version and testing the Eli> appkit version yield the same result in this case? Or are Eli> you saying that testing the appkit version is simply Eli> incorrect? Because that was my concern. I think testing the appkit version is correct (but I=CA=BCm not the expert here, Alan is). Robert From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 11 06:58:56 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2019 10:58:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39962 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPPiR-00017z-Gv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 06:58:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50358) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPPiP-00017l-OO for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 06:58:54 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37725) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hPPiJ-0001kg-3W; Sat, 11 May 2019 06:58:47 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2435 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hPPiH-0005MU-Ej; Sat, 11 May 2019 06:58:46 -0400 Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 13:58:39 +0300 Message-Id: <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Robert Pluim In-reply-to: (message from Robert Pluim on Sat, 11 May 2019 11:54:13 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, alan@idiocy.org, npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Robert Pluim > Cc: Alan Third , 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@gmail.com > Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 11:54:13 +0200 > > Eli> Could there be some internal variable, either in Lisp or in > Eli> C, which we then would use in the default value, as some > Eli> unit, instead of just number of wheel turns and number of > Eli> lines? Then we could set that internal variable to different > Eli> values, but keep the customization the same in those > Eli> internally-defined units. I think that would be somewhat > Eli> cleaner, if possible and reasonable, because we'd be able to > Eli> document the customization in these units in a > Eli> platform-independent way. > > I canʼt think of a single variable you could use to transform > > (5 ((shift) . 1) ((control) . nil))) > > to > > (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) What is the logic behind the value proposed for macOS 10.7, though? It sounds like Shift will _increase_ the scrolling amount instead of decreasing it in the default value? What is the reason for such reversal? > (as an aside ((control) . nil) is the same as ((control)), so we > should change one or the other) Right. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 11 18:50:33 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2019 22:50:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41418 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPap7-0001wD-A4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 18:50:33 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f42.google.com ([209.85.221.42]:47015) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPap5-0001w0-Jo for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 18:50:32 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f42.google.com with SMTP id r7so10703055wrr.13 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 11 May 2019 15:50:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=kipv/xdIbNgvTpO50CREMZURQeslsSoQmPKMbfNA5KI=; b=m++pt1Hpe53MLRvmbi+MkU91TaRycr/mUFnQUiGcf8xZ4yQSm20q8OD8+Xc5SgEgy7 sA+Po4u8jQBUfm0klh1wPV8tPKn9XagSo8QV4mkqw6B4u/qnt00YQnDPX/tKJszY4SQ9 OSLugWHwOa4c+tvkKXr8LzIrpaCcBdQz/bwZYNb/Gc4diALHLE7/QAuhlkDyXgOHzkvK ugOY51z/5lS1Dud0wjElVTFKSrlryIP0YGys4f+8H9EIu0BzYkoHdHtb5N0qIQTczSAw 6CvLvoXVKaBAv5wNEmbeBerSLna+O2+LgcuFlvTTBBZBHnfyfSOFwPWDLCK2uc4B9ACu GXxQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=kipv/xdIbNgvTpO50CREMZURQeslsSoQmPKMbfNA5KI=; b=Mt2Hx4ksXyLNYVdemLcW/q/FagtBdVFHuW7mZ/qAZ0LiTChP+W91HrgoXQTdxqGY5I s9m4LS77bMnDqy7//hH5V45qlLJG3Ea3+EPHG+F2bbx5be+Wyv25iu9XJPHm8UfcKo8v hDRZAOvRTVO1M50UPzrA3JOFXyb1Nf1ftXT8MDo2ZDZqNrrxylfmyo+Sf5qz+hyeWTdk Fx8TmuEipQDDN7nr9kpDCUZ60fyw6IpmlTgO3OAZf5Qfxk6fhtI6+2uSlUUonPW6qFN/ q+BbG7YVv181to864ZR6Nspk8b7pOBhCMIEqVI6OT0PRtlTxbLPCjBus4mfs00dgGH5m Lhyg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVVWwM9FwsqOyWrSAqYAk3ToAH2u9KBNFCqxPKypJfR5nyfZ9+r nSLq+CKN+Uo5d/MtisQSN24= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxyPqFcvSTx2JLdWg3wXacauOD4NSlvh3utFuRIqc0lOZpgQsAQJADSuB9BWG0yUEmIg0vkSw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:dcc4:: with SMTP id x4mr12642187wrm.107.1557615025588; Sat, 11 May 2019 15:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from breton.holly.idiocy.org (ip6-2001-08b0-03f8-8129-85f9-9fdd-bdd0-2fbb.holly.idiocy.org. [2001:8b0:3f8:8129:85f9:9fdd:bdd0:2fbb]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n63sm9026390wmn.38.2019.05.11.15.50.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 11 May 2019 15:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 23:50:21 +0100 From: Alan Third To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly Message-ID: <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.3 (2019-02-01) X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 01:58:39PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Robert Pluim > > Cc: Alan Third , 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@gmail.com > > Date: Sat, [...] Content analysis details: (1.7 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: idiocy.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.221.42 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (athird[at]googlemail.com) 0.1 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different 1.3 URI_HEX URI: URI hostname has long hexadecimal sequence 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Pluim , npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 01:58:39PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Robert Pluim > > Cc: Alan Third , 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@gmail.com > > Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 11:54:13 +0200 > > > > Eli> Could there be some internal variable, either in Lisp or in > > Eli> C, which we then would use in the default value, as some > > Eli> unit, instead of just number of wheel turns and number of > > Eli> lines? Then we could set that internal variable to different > > Eli> values, but keep the customization the same in those > > Eli> internally-defined units. I think that would be somewhat > > Eli> cleaner, if possible and reasonable, because we'd be able to > > Eli> document the customization in these units in a > > Eli> platform-independent way. > > > > I canʼt think of a single variable you could use to transform > > > > (5 ((shift) . 1) ((control) . nil))) > > > > to > > > > (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) > > What is the logic behind the value proposed for macOS 10.7, though? > It sounds like Shift will _increase_ the scrolling amount instead of > decreasing it in the default value? What is the reason for such > reversal? I can’t recall... I think it was just something somebody provided as an option and nobody disagreed. Some of the previous discussion is available here: http://emacs.1067599.n8.nabble.com/Smoother-macOS-touchpad-scrolling-td435666.html -- Alan Third From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 11 18:53:47 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2019 22:53:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41422 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPasE-00020Y-VP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 18:53:47 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f50.google.com ([209.85.221.50]:39734) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPasD-00020K-31 for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 18:53:45 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f50.google.com with SMTP id w8so8906936wrl.6 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 11 May 2019 15:53:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=P1pA97NGW46Wwc8ta8lO+lPHK0aWXkXRCQuRHvfEQIk=; b=BDwb2AaQBj2RqoPko8ujlgFq0k+5xxpf/srFAza6QMo8Wov+nBdDgnd7xM3WyHHVvV 9Wbi6NFX2Ixsst2n4utnWpgqImGJIT5F4DqSl+jWvd6HGuHAbCeHsZjnuKsoQKSxY31l 4neHNzuwcye7kqOlzRtfanscueepCo5ibLYFuhqbJx1BJtCdzWZ1jQj0md5t7Jkny0pl X8/i/HyWOLNaV6akA6XF0QiAaIp0Di6fDJp9HOQ8eeR3I0M06lPsljpAza26H0ThG3LA 0GuEcBwjol5C9rywpfX2ke5+5I5grM19NyxzH1BkHa7Os7vBDEhSyoHWYL14OeNWWVl0 xFaw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=P1pA97NGW46Wwc8ta8lO+lPHK0aWXkXRCQuRHvfEQIk=; b=MBTRTiVbZe5Wd/f2a5m9JyGEoep1+OSH5cp8EjlEW9CPa70wmdkfxQfySbzSUEjGFB m5/eLFRNfMZjtJVXzAbVWcWYl9/8wuwQinhKI9+uqThv8KhoLGr7rI+P72Xrt7AIn54d mvKhfJakllx3C3+Qr9FHf1rjVjBncDJqyJemAJpiMCCqH7YO0ydp2z6LU8aQleX0RYLA H4rsA3pgaFgUbRt9rInFKCR0Ew/26E10s8XfRJpacpPdkNL+mujpmOOYf5rsfeYwpenK a8+ayp+384e7iWlD5VyK07OkKaqFrIC2hkv/AAfCcWsaiA53BG4O2bptPX4dv8ENDuZv djSA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUN/bx831qHwu4v4Qi1HoGH7VAHtXTyM7HwLKBPKRyBDDzHvKTk iIlGh9PPZBmAsL5lJyouWLs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxIfbTd09iiUMgi6vZALdnQmwZPPsozb54Gtllr4G22R0Yjb2CZW0cN+57JIr06RpXp3yJXPw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f80f:: with SMTP id s15mr2676735wrp.322.1557615219152; Sat, 11 May 2019 15:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from breton.holly.idiocy.org (ip6-2001-08b0-03f8-8129-85f9-9fdd-bdd0-2fbb.holly.idiocy.org. [2001:8b0:3f8:8129:85f9:9fdd:bdd0:2fbb]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v25sm583115wml.25.2019.05.11.15.53.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 11 May 2019 15:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 23:53:36 +0100 From: Alan Third To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly Message-ID: <20190511225336.GB82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.3 (2019-02-01) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 11:54:13AM +0200, Robert Pluim wrote: > >>>>> On Sat, 11 May 2019 09:12:13 +0300, Eli Zaretskii said: > > >> Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 22:25:31 +0100 From: Alan Third > >> Cc: Robert Pluim , > >> 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@gmail.com > >> > >> > Why does that system configuration need a different default > >> to begin > with? In general, having different defaults on > >> different systems is > not a good idea. > >> > >> macOS 10.7+ handles wheel scrolling differently from how other > >> systems handle it. If we stick with the defaults then it > >> becomes uncontrollably fast, the current defaults make it feel > >> similar to X, Windows, etc. > >> > >> IIRC, fixing it in C is probably possible, but not as straight > >> forward as just changing the defaults. There was discussion of > >> it in Emacs devel at the time and only one person objected, but > >> later changed their mind. > > Could you give a time range for when that was discussed? September 2017, apparently. I’ve provided a link in my reply to Eli. > Eli> Are you saying that testing the OS version and testing the > Eli> appkit version yield the same result in this case? Or are > Eli> you saying that testing the appkit version is simply > Eli> incorrect? Because that was my concern. > > I think testing the appkit version is correct (but Iʼm not the expert > here, Alan is). It’s really six of one and half a dozen of the other. As far as I’m aware each Appkit version always matches to a macOS version, although the documentation says that’s not guaranteed. As I recall we went with Appkit version because that was more readily available. -- Alan Third From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 11 19:07:10 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2019 23:07:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41427 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPb5C-0002K6-8C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 19:07:10 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f45.google.com ([209.85.221.45]:43309) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPb59-0002Jq-ON for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 19:07:08 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f45.google.com with SMTP id r4so11330230wro.10 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 11 May 2019 16:07:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=xts+DjkKG1J6xuT7+KawDKaFfFp2sg6E/c2XYYedenc=; b=hTzSn6FYkRzzFt3e822gp4IMgTVXH/3zyPoVvWj/Prpe238tN8nIJtTT0x3N4t59jH uy0U1vUknREOUrosUo5Z7eHzL7hvm16CkXHJJXPaQPoZftCPrrZksAMzMISyC+Jy0gcw qOR1aNh3/48T/2lJCJEZiV2fAuwvZO1xGEsX5kt+1RZer0qIP1NF9NGnboeVpyDCBXxT 9AgDnEfJWB9SQfydvpNMEEhHjo43s9g8/mAu5V8X3xChK7B8Un7AREXo98hQydZnVEry NKu6QLbeF9pZdsn0IWxDp9eZSA4Os3m8yQ6yuoJ6A3CiLPrja3ds01KiJzSPqMa1iRSP ad/A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=xts+DjkKG1J6xuT7+KawDKaFfFp2sg6E/c2XYYedenc=; b=H+dxAxiksP/n8DvNKpPEZVdSJ9g/sL348u/0dGl35ufl6vHGnmPfuX/MOp18ZntZi/ z1b1Wl0HnzFZhT9cfUr1DL5LRPyBqT42UDQG9khFekjgG6eeIOV0b+SishEfbUIk0Pji teqXgtexNS7or3osQOlVXlBr5pMJWIgkohdjOCVO/efBcaiWRidR1pYIbrSX0eHhnqnx r8hxpf2SC3/xxrgxJOGo+b4/Lp8UOjcPfltmvmKeTIfOHT/FV2yMrkL3BWKtxWMAPAZ/ PPHWPg+brtcByiwZFu03tVkrv3otA0TFaLAR6pQ0BeISL6t+CDQxbRK/L1YCat3gJ0Pn WBBA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXoiByouNw8u7sGZw7V+L+8g27jebv/IjmThq4ZyWnEqa6A0fuG fL1XmwgujU4ARmPWnZMMBPM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwzx6ODLPBv++3NuUMNHhmKX2C/7kaSF0zsqp+LUZPpucd1QkMaZL9Emex+WzFoGh44nvsX2g== X-Received: by 2002:adf:e8c4:: with SMTP id k4mr13098479wrn.9.1557616021901; Sat, 11 May 2019 16:07:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from breton.holly.idiocy.org (ip6-2001-08b0-03f8-8129-85f9-9fdd-bdd0-2fbb.holly.idiocy.org. [2001:8b0:3f8:8129:85f9:9fdd:bdd0:2fbb]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q26sm7816582wmq.25.2019.05.11.16.07.00 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 11 May 2019 16:07:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 00:06:59 +0100 From: Alan Third To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly Message-ID: <20190511230659.GC82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.3 (2019-02-01) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 09:12:13AM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Could there be some internal variable, either in Lisp or in C, which > we then would use in the default value, as some unit, instead of just > number of wheel turns and number of lines? Then we could set that > internal variable to different values, but keep the customization the > same in those internally-defined units. I think that would be > somewhat cleaner, if possible and reasonable, because we'd be able to > document the customization in these units in a platform-independent > way. The big issue is that both macOS and Emacs accelerate the scroll rate, and that results in uncontrollable scroll rates. Looking through previous discussions (link provided in another email in this thread) it appears there’s an unfortunate trade‐off to be made in how we handle scrolling acceleration varying between mousewheels and trackpads on macOS. The built‐in macOS acceleration feels natural on both, the Emacs acceleration feels very slow on trackpads. > If that's impractical, then I guess we'll have to live with this > inconsistency, although I personally consider it a slippery slope. At > the very least it should be documented, in NEWS if not in the manual. It was documented in NEWS for Emacs 26. I don’t recall if it was added to the manual. A thorough review of the macOS section of the manual is on my todo list for before Emacs 27 is released. -- Alan Third From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 12 00:59:21 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 May 2019 04:59:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41596 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPga1-0002Le-J0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 00:59:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60806) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPga0-0002LR-47 for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 00:59:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51817) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hPgZt-0007qd-7t; Sun, 12 May 2019 00:59:13 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2196 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hPgZr-00031D-KS; Sun, 12 May 2019 00:59:12 -0400 Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 07:58:50 +0300 Message-Id: <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Alan Third In-reply-to: <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> (message from Alan Third on Sat, 11 May 2019 23:50:21 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 23:50:21 +0100 > From: Alan Third > Cc: Robert Pluim , 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, > npostavs@gmail.com > > > > (5 ((shift) . 1) ((control) . nil))) > > > > > > to > > > > > > (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) > > > > What is the logic behind the value proposed for macOS 10.7, though? > > It sounds like Shift will _increase_ the scrolling amount instead of > > decreasing it in the default value? What is the reason for such > > reversal? > > I can’t recall... I think it was just something somebody provided as > an option and nobody disagreed. > > Some of the previous discussion is available here: > > http://emacs.1067599.n8.nabble.com/Smoother-macOS-touchpad-scrolling-td435666.html I don't see the above discrepancy discussed anywhere, nor any justification for switching Shift from causing slower scrolling to causing faster scrolling. Did I miss something? What I see is 2 kinds of arguments: . Acceleration applied by Emacs makes scrolling too fast because macOS itself accelerates by default . The default amount of scrolling -- 5 -- is too large for macOS (not sure why -- is that also due to macOS defaults?) The first of these could be handled by turning acceleration off on macOS 10.7 by default. Maybe the same with the latter. Although I don't understand why the system's default scrolling should matter, because AFAIK Emacs scrolls by its own commands, it doesn't use the system for that. Why Shift should _accelerate_ on macOS was never discussed, in any of the linked discussions or the links inside them (stack-overflow etc.) I understand now that this ship has sailed with Emacs 26, which I regret, because I think it was a serious mistake to make at least part of those changes. Maybe we should try fixing that in future versions. There's also the issue with trackball that differs from a real mouse wheel. I don't think I understand why it's an Emacs problem; do other apps somehow distinguish between the trackball and the mouse and produce a different behavior? If so, why cannot Emacs distinguish between them? There was also a question in the 2017 discussion regarding how to know we are near the top or bottom of the buffer. is that still an issue? Maybe I don't understand the problem, because the answer is trivial, we have 2 macros that provide the limits of the buffer's accessible portion, and another macro that provides the value of point. If you need the position of the window-start, that is also readily available. Bottom line, I'd like to change Shift back to cause slow-down of the scrolling, as on other platforms. Maybe also change the default itself back, and just make the acceleration off on macOS 10.7. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 12 07:05:16 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 May 2019 11:05:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41980 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPmI7-0005dN-DY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 07:05:15 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f66.google.com ([209.85.128.66]:52751) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPmI5-0005d4-9I for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 07:05:14 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f66.google.com with SMTP id y3so1786313wmm.2 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 12 May 2019 04:05:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=3KbO3R+Axn3Da/k1/Ae25EyYmgZ7SG1NHV8eu8WgDcc=; b=S6ymj37h425oIrJQWBsRSImSPv2NlSsB2OsFi+/cEeyGXw6KQjzs9XJbirt8cLkp/A P/Gai2wkq85wwd07G0uCLAgwZJCzP6cWWnUuIULJ0+/EJP75RW4/N477BO+7uFbihoyN 5K+sAEeTDIQxK9z5jgn5uS3x7moH3t2gkJIrDli82f5E+6bJkG1MvKhFm2KZLeHp/F5a OxBhYL+fGEpyKM15o2L1N6dNNMt/1Gnci5WPYTWxT/ATIVOeUBaWRt3RCL/tAxw3LNtT U8Xi7NF+rREnNruk1ksrr2+TbU+hq4QlgdLFcb7x1pIYK6hmR32nJUvw2h/IwU8uvTkv G41A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=3KbO3R+Axn3Da/k1/Ae25EyYmgZ7SG1NHV8eu8WgDcc=; b=Ckwg6yNAgZnaugHjz2tNIHBPE55ug2KpS2tuREQaZtbKwpSoG/cRzqjuyPNMAKIgqT NzjDJMRkLOO14WNaCzvasA+IeeykADBvnzWx0INDo/YfD2ZEnIbApVsA3WmoI8DxZvWm IaVrsy25TxSKsdccQRXhvgDxOmPXsgWTHRnmhxFomOhRs3LFTPolkFmmxcM3LcUFQiOS v6ezeAlxTVC/jhkIwVvJOZ8FC+1bFSOvQdPINgLgxjPwm/gtxHHHxew4jULfEKNifca3 SPO42knIRMjOLHjNCF/E3YGgsNc9lW3jZyjF4ZL8fEkK0t7Ypk0vLWKX+pXlN66ubfAC hXuA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWVyqRxaKKPQFFwMR0raSXozmmQ9/Ha7DEVpgvkoiwZPZbgej9A Ws2AtfJJMBTX5f65TKSn4nU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzw99V+qR6UjxeRvjGtYbQswyLZ7LmlleTfz8MuMSDPANJWaZlsd8NX3Wz6hKUeQzZWqnOW/g== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:9e04:: with SMTP id h4mr13215036wme.135.1557659107399; Sun, 12 May 2019 04:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from breton.holly.idiocy.org (ip6-2001-08b0-03f8-8129-85f9-9fdd-bdd0-2fbb.holly.idiocy.org. [2001:8b0:3f8:8129:85f9:9fdd:bdd0:2fbb]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a184sm11323868wmh.36.2019.05.12.04.05.05 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 12 May 2019 04:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 12:05:04 +0100 From: Alan Third To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly Message-ID: <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.3 (2019-02-01) X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 07:58:50AM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 23:50:21 +0100 > > From: Alan Third > > Cc: Robert Pluim , 35389@debbugs.g [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: idiocy.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.128.66 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (athird[at]googlemail.com) 1.3 URI_HEX URI: URI hostname has long hexadecimal sequence 0.0 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 07:58:50AM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 23:50:21 +0100 > > From: Alan Third > > Cc: Robert Pluim , 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, > > npostavs@gmail.com > > > > > > (5 ((shift) . 1) ((control) . nil))) > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) > > > > > > What is the logic behind the value proposed for macOS 10.7, though? > > > It sounds like Shift will _increase_ the scrolling amount instead of > > > decreasing it in the default value? What is the reason for such > > > reversal? > > > > I can’t recall... I think it was just something somebody provided as > > an option and nobody disagreed. > > > > Some of the previous discussion is available here: > > > > http://emacs.1067599.n8.nabble.com/Smoother-macOS-touchpad-scrolling-td435666.html > > I don't see the above discrepancy discussed anywhere, nor any > justification for switching Shift from causing slower scrolling to > causing faster scrolling. Did I miss something? No, I don’t think it was discussed at all. As I said I think it was just thrown out there and nobody commented so it made it right through. I don’t think it matters at all if we want to do something different. > What I see is 2 kinds of arguments: > > . Acceleration applied by Emacs makes scrolling too fast because > macOS itself accelerates by default > > . The default amount of scrolling -- 5 -- is too large for macOS > (not sure why -- is that also due to macOS defaults?) > > The first of these could be handled by turning acceleration off on > macOS 10.7 by default. Maybe the same with the latter. Although I > don't understand why the system's default scrolling should matter, > because AFAIK Emacs scrolls by its own commands, it doesn't use the > system for that. I’ll try and explain how the scrolling works on macOS, that will probably answer some of your questions. The code in question is in nsterm.m in the method: - (void)mouseDown: (NSEvent *)theEvent When a user scrolls with a scrollwheel on a mouse, one NSEvent is created per ‘click’ of the wheel. The NSEvent provides a float that describes how many lines the system believes that equates to, and as you scroll more it increases the number of lines each click equates to. That is fine, we can ignore that and treat each click as one event in Emacs. When a user scrolls with a trackpad (dragging two fingers across the surface) one or more NSEvents are generated, each of which contains a number that equates to the number of pixels that the system thinks the application should scroll. These numbers can be as little as one pixel, or as high as 30 or 40 pixels or more. Unfortunately we can’t just treat each of these NSEvents as a request to scroll a single line as we can receive many small requests very quickly. This is what Emacs used to do and it was basically useless. The slightest two finger drag on the trackpad could result in Emacs scrolling several pages. What the current code does is add those pixel values up until they reach a certain value, then send Emacs an event telling it to scroll. Unfortunately those pixel values include a built‐in acceleration factor, so the more the user drags their fingers across the trackpad, the higher the pixel values will be, proportionally. We can’t disable that, and as far as I can tell the user can’t even disable it for the whole system. To try and ignore the system’s acceleration I chose an arbitrary number, and if the pixel values added up to more than that then treated it as a single Emacs scroll event. Unfortunately a large two finger drag on the trackpad can produce as few as one Emacs scroll event when the user (or at least me) expects a greater amount of scrolling. > Why Shift should _accelerate_ on macOS was never discussed, in any of > the linked discussions or the links inside them (stack-overflow etc.) Indeed. I’d have no issue with changing that. My only concern is that changing back to the defaults (i.e. scrolling 5 lines by default) may be too fast due to the system acceleration. > I understand now that this ship has sailed with Emacs 26, which I > regret, because I think it was a serious mistake to make at least part > of those changes. Maybe we should try fixing that in future versions. > > There's also the issue with trackball that differs from a real mouse > wheel. I don't think I understand why it's an Emacs problem; do other > apps somehow distinguish between the trackball and the mouse and > produce a different behavior? If so, why cannot Emacs distinguish > between them? Emacs could easily differentiate between scrollwheel scrolls and trackpad scrolls, but the infrastructure isn’t there. We could add a new event type, for example. This may be useful for other ports when we reach the point of being able to support gestures, if anyone ever creates a native GTK port, say. But for now it would only be supported on macOS, and I fear it might then become a political issue and have to be disabled anyway. If you have another idea, please let me know. > There was also a question in the 2017 discussion regarding how to know > we are near the top or bottom of the buffer. is that still an issue? > Maybe I don't understand the problem, because the answer is trivial, > we have 2 macros that provide the limits of the buffer's accessible > portion, and another macro that provides the value of point. If you > need the position of the window-start, that is also readily available. Yes, it’s still an issue. macOS adds ‘momentum’ when the user finishes scrolling with the trackpad. It’s easy to turn off, but when it’s on it can continue to try scrolling at the top and bottom of the Emacs buffer which results in a barrage of Emacs warnings complaining it’s already at the top or bottom of the buffer. Ideally this should return when it’s not able to scroll any more: /* FIXME: At the top or bottom of the buffer we should * ignore momentum-phase events. */ if (! ns_use_mwheel_momentum && [theEvent momentumPhase] != NSEventPhaseNone) return; Emacs doesn’t scroll right to the bottom of the buffer, it always displays two lines (perhaps more? I’m unsure if this is a setting users can change). If the window is displaying the bottom two lines and the user attempts to scroll down it displays a warning. I’d like to be able to detect that Emacs can’t scroll any more, but that seems a little more complex than checking that point is at the end of the buffer. This only affects ‘momentum’ phase scrolls. The simple solution is ignore it or turn it off — we don’t need it — but it would be nice to make it work properly. I suppose if I could detect that the first or last line is being displayed in the window then I could just ignore momentum. That’s probably quite straight forward. > Bottom line, I'd like to change Shift back to cause slow-down of the > scrolling, as on other platforms. Maybe also change the default > itself back, and just make the acceleration off on macOS 10.7. -- Alan Third From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 12 10:37:17 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 May 2019 14:37:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43040 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPpbJ-0002ux-AB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 10:37:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47589) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPpbH-0002ui-QQ for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 10:37:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57500) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hPpbC-0005y1-9W; Sun, 12 May 2019 10:37:10 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2252 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hPpbB-0003qz-K4; Sun, 12 May 2019 10:37:10 -0400 Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 17:36:50 +0300 Message-Id: <83pnonbuyl.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Alan Third In-reply-to: <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> (message from Alan Third on Sun, 12 May 2019 12:05:04 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 12:05:04 +0100 > From: Alan Third > Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@gmail.com > > I’ll try and explain how the scrolling works on macOS, that will > probably answer some of your questions. Thanks, it does help. > Unfortunately we can’t just treat each of these NSEvents as a request > to scroll a single line as we can receive many small requests very > quickly. This is what Emacs used to do and it was basically useless. > The slightest two finger drag on the trackpad could result in Emacs > scrolling several pages. > > What the current code does is add those pixel values up until they > reach a certain value, then send Emacs an event telling it to scroll. > Unfortunately those pixel values include a built‐in acceleration > factor, so the more the user drags their fingers across the trackpad, > the higher the pixel values will be, proportionally. We can’t disable > that, and as far as I can tell the user can’t even disable it for the > whole system. Is the algorithm used by the system to "accelerate" known? If so, could we "un-accelerate" those values, by scaling them back to the original amount of dragging received from the user, as if acceleration was disabled? Then we could apply our own acceleration as on other platforms. Would that work? If something like that does work, we could offer it, at least as an option, for those who'd like Emacs to behave the same a on other platforms. > > Why Shift should _accelerate_ on macOS was never discussed, in any of > > the linked discussions or the links inside them (stack-overflow etc.) > > Indeed. I’d have no issue with changing that. My only concern is that > changing back to the defaults (i.e. scrolling 5 lines by default) may > be too fast due to the system acceleration. Maybe we could scale the amount and/or undo the acceleration, to countermand these effects? > > There's also the issue with trackball that differs from a real mouse > > wheel. I don't think I understand why it's an Emacs problem; do other > > apps somehow distinguish between the trackball and the mouse and > > produce a different behavior? If so, why cannot Emacs distinguish > > between them? > > Emacs could easily differentiate between scrollwheel scrolls and > trackpad scrolls, but the infrastructure isn’t there. We could add a > new event type, for example. This may be useful for other ports when > we reach the point of being able to support gestures, if anyone ever > creates a native GTK port, say. But for now it would only be supported > on macOS, and I fear it might then become a political issue and have > to be disabled anyway. If Emacs handles this event internally, and just translates it to the appropriate combination of wheel scroll events available on other platforms, I see no political issues with that. Later, if and when such events are supported on other platforms, we could expose them on macOS as well. > /* FIXME: At the top or bottom of the buffer we should > * ignore momentum-phase events. */ > if (! ns_use_mwheel_momentum > && [theEvent momentumPhase] != NSEventPhaseNone) > return; > > Emacs doesn’t scroll right to the bottom of the buffer, it always > displays two lines (perhaps more? I’m unsure if this is a setting > users can change). If the window is displaying the bottom two lines > and the user attempts to scroll down it displays a warning. I’d like > to be able to detect that Emacs can’t scroll any more, but that seems > a little more complex than checking that point is at the end of the > buffer. > > This only affects ‘momentum’ phase scrolls. The simple solution is > ignore it or turn it off — we don’t need it — but it would be nice to > make it work properly. > > I suppose if I could detect that the first or last line is being > displayed in the window then I could just ignore momentum. That’s > probably quite straight forward. I think vertical-motion is the primitive you are looking for, assuming I understood the situation. You can also call Fline_beginning_position and Fline_end_position from C. If these don't help, please tell why, maybe I don't have a clear idea of the context in which you need to make these calls. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 12 19:29:43 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 May 2019 23:29:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43711 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPxuZ-0001Hk-LS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 19:29:43 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f169.google.com ([209.85.215.169]:39105) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPxuU-0001HU-MI for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 19:29:41 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f169.google.com with SMTP id w22so5773760pgi.6 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 12 May 2019 16:29:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8bIdmus4jmpyjMlYItqeYLPEeI3Jw2K+0GJWoMN4MiM=; b=JBsLKK6iPp42uViQrO+oNhGAWaVTVbWuWPtAzo41V3QwHV0AF/Zv+XfB2CDD6aECDL KwYg/+WARVNqgNJXxHifOt7/IKHOFB/fNzjDB/KRe3zLXFiE6BUU6nKM4xD79dK3FS8S 66EWt+tOwi2Otj/SB+LGCePyw3Py6usvvs2LTQe7BtHI2z2Lgc0ZiWE1tc7+QzA3gfDO DQhsdhhR9Yj+Yjfi40A8xkQ3lgoaQsZ5U9uWEOuK3/Ib4JEjAnrc5Iq/d7QOeAMMNVYg Cd1URsnJ5ZkY409Fm9heLUbgY36gOaYWeckDfzZHPRSdGscCRGlXYuPSER/E8Wlet3KX HAYw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=8bIdmus4jmpyjMlYItqeYLPEeI3Jw2K+0GJWoMN4MiM=; b=CPPkuv8D7Z3c/aSYJuJLfC2CiJIrxJwQWh2juKwtveODd7wgRXIkbEEsKvGSmQ+pAf TJCO/t2BeUEt1lHBviJ4dRYZkwnTQwlPbi9FdOQxRrlTR13MQ/TU5vyJZyI1uEc+FlVI HZTvxqgbD6xU+DE87zwUSmAJw2ofhVcgmUuKvMHPzCXfq6pYVkpxQO0+vCpfvBQNWBNi Emj99i4jT6raaxmhuim7dnvrjqUVdakM5IB3JA7XK6NcEGPW6ZKz9b/twKlHbALJBanZ X3Lke/5x/brYqjOqOq5NWlMZgBYES9PHW6Tc/vxS4nC9vVQjiMF5aN3tgG6WnJFX1CyD TVgw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVCIeQkrvRmtJLWEZmcnXnuvVvwv0d40QtMa1D6QfWQkuwx9fkV JD0+u8IUS1sb5kyDMKUtiqQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzFTO9LXVd7Fb5T3JUGXHtEdTBwe68M4ONKcB0tGDdcvdCexx60YQmp5AgIlanSMAqy/v21Zg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:3c14:: with SMTP id j20mr27964545pga.410.1557703772872; Sun, 12 May 2019 16:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thinkless2017 (vesta.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp. [150.46.48.154]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q80sm28466415pfa.66.2019.05.12.16.29.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 12 May 2019 16:29:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Tak Kunihiro X-Google-Original-From: Tak Kunihiro To: Alan Third Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 08:29:28 +0900 In-Reply-To: <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> (Alan Third's message of "Sun, 12 May 2019 12:05:04 +0100") Message-ID: <86pnonjlpj.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) > > No, I don=E2=80=99t think it was discussed at all. As I said I think it w= as > just thrown out there and nobody commented so it made it right > through. I don=E2=80=99t think it matters at all if we want to do somethi= ng > different. I think I proposed to change the default to that value before. What was in my mind is to maintain controlling amount of scroll by shift key. 1. Current default (5 ((shift) . 1) ((control))) with acceleration, the only concern is to scroll less. My muscle leaned to control speed of scroll by pressing shift. =20=20 2. Value (1 ((shift) . 1) ((control))) works good for me. I never think about speeding down the scroll. Occasionally I want to speed up scroll. 3. Value (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) is good for typical scroll and occasional fast scroll with the muscle memory. I'm not insisting to change the default, on this post. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 13 10:26:48 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 May 2019 14:26:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45883 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hQBui-0003YZ-Ba for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 10:26:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53433) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hQBug-0003YN-Ct for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 10:26:47 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45576) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQBua-0007je-Ry; Mon, 13 May 2019 10:26:40 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2416 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hQBuV-0005yq-81; Mon, 13 May 2019 10:26:38 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 17:26:18 +0300 Message-Id: <83a7fqbfcl.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Tak Kunihiro In-reply-to: <86pnonjlpj.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> (message from Tak Kunihiro on Mon, 13 May 2019 08:29:28 +0900) Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <86pnonjlpj.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, alan@idiocy.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Tak Kunihiro > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com > Cc: tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp > Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 08:29:28 +0900 > > >> (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) > > > > No, I don’t think it was discussed at all. As I said I think it was > > just thrown out there and nobody commented so it made it right > > through. I don’t think it matters at all if we want to do something > > different. > > I think I proposed to change the default to that value before. What was > in my mind is to maintain controlling amount of scroll by shift key. > > 1. Current default (5 ((shift) . 1) ((control))) with acceleration, > the only concern is to scroll less. My muscle leaned to control speed > of scroll by pressing shift. > > 2. Value (1 ((shift) . 1) ((control))) works good for me. I never > think about speeding down the scroll. Occasionally I want to speed up > scroll. > > 3. Value (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) is good for typical scroll and > occasional fast scroll with the muscle memory. Item 3, the current default on macOS, makes Shift have the opposite effect from what it produces on other platforms. Which is in general against our policy, AFAIU. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 16 05:00:40 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 May 2019 09:00:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54222 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hRCFk-0006LA-8N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 05:00:40 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f172.google.com ([209.85.214.172]:44909) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hRCFh-0006Kt-Gu for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 05:00:38 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f172.google.com with SMTP id c5so1279316pll.11 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 16 May 2019 02:00:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mUlZs2abghgYcioAHbxqw26JNntJc+wZANrU/8ECQT0=; b=gM0HG1QSE0gDn1STITGOGMGbUbRQeNh5KbkpMj2Hv6aVjsUF1iVmk1NfqzPGqGnLfT LXouVbX2sEbcwBigAWIsivPcvL530Yu8NnIw03uoKd7JwBEN3uIL0mbHJMCmavPMBwum C6Etp5Xsbtsh3CJAuxrT6xhthtTgACsbjFczoS+KTFI1dLa8/k38UrxE0CS4Dm+/bOJy SPKNe8cfOBTx1AuSI9LCCTnEL0n/9PY/MzwxzEIHMyJfP0m9bMCK1EjyEHrgkw/RA5H7 y447Q+Y7L7jYkDltmDGcIeGvb5yUS7XKU/o1Q4mAoBZ+m/GCHgzNaoot267tVC/1bT35 vJyA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mUlZs2abghgYcioAHbxqw26JNntJc+wZANrU/8ECQT0=; b=GzyLQ9bWlOkCxm0GUPUZpezh0lQ5IU4OSSZeDcfLDf0MdNo2dYkIu8vGs0mMYG1HRI MrtFY0O29E3k1GNVs5rQ8In20kG2UZhNb2E64q+4wrAU+K9G0cNWmiCPteSN5wqlvnWc obUHdu9mxaQewDSVj9DUkZXeadW/GFOQVymZltYPrGebGIm7Bwmg73ibLbc8OHYGLEKe qZQNETFOMZC2BnofynxtVoVGp0rtlLftSdDfy8uxRZuWVQuCyjzycuBZ4I/Tejm37+ha j583jsaGpZ6RESrMBofQ1yukFDGv8xYeBj6XmP2OZ4r6L/Ko+yVNk/RcuLPqIcnjpEQs rl+A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXaEdOhDf7hk/ItZHJoepWnlekiN6sDEuX2vJCq5CDDUJq4JT6e zb3HSZD0BVsOYZryD4CHc70= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyVnex9C9jhWhB548yEAfImzVy4m+qZe+f9pQFF5RZ9omy0avxh6IZvlAIJUV3FyKVvI4kSqQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:7045:: with SMTP id h5mr3225988plt.250.1557997230948; Thu, 16 May 2019 02:00:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thinkless2017 (vesta.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp. [150.46.48.154]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p16sm13246211pfq.153.2019.05.16.02.00.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 16 May 2019 02:00:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Tak Kunihiro X-Google-Original-From: Tak Kunihiro To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <86pnonjlpj.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83a7fqbfcl.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 18:00:25 +0900 In-Reply-To: <83a7fqbfcl.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 13 May 2019 17:26:18 +0300") Message-ID: <86k1eqn592.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: alan@idiocy.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, Tak Kunihiro , tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> >> (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) >> > >> > No, I don=E2=80=99t think it was discussed at all. As I said I think i= t was >> > just thrown out there and nobody commented so it made it right >> > through. I don=E2=80=99t think it matters at all if we want to do some= thing >> > different. >>=20 >> I think I proposed to change the default to that value before. What was >> in my mind is to maintain controlling amount of scroll by shift key. >>=20 >> 1. Current default (5 ((shift) . 1) ((control))) with acceleration, >> the only concern is to scroll less. My muscle leaned to control speed >> of scroll by pressing shift. >>=20=20=20 >> 2. Value (1 ((shift) . 1) ((control))) works good for me. I never >> think about speeding down the scroll. Occasionally I want to speed up >> scroll. >>=20 >> 3. Value (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) is good for typical scroll and >> occasional fast scroll with the muscle memory. > > Item 3, the current default on macOS, makes Shift have the opposite > effect from what it produces on other platforms. Which is in general > against our policy, AFAIU. Value (1 ((shift) . 1) ((control))) isn't as useful as value (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))), is it? If functionality of shift is described as to change speed, the value can be fitted to the policy I suppose. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 16 09:55:51 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 May 2019 13:55:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55971 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hRGrP-0005Va-8f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 09:55:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33617) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hRGrN-0005VU-En for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 09:55:49 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52367) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRGrH-0005Oc-UM; Thu, 16 May 2019 09:55:43 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3225 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hRGrC-0005a2-PW; Thu, 16 May 2019 09:55:41 -0400 Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 16:55:29 +0300 Message-Id: <83o942cxm6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Tak Kunihiro In-reply-to: <86k1eqn592.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> (message from Tak Kunihiro on Thu, 16 May 2019 18:00:25 +0900) Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <86pnonjlpj.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83a7fqbfcl.fsf@gnu.org> <86k1eqn592.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com, alan@idiocy.org, rpluim@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Tak Kunihiro > Cc: Tak Kunihiro , alan@idiocy.org, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com > Cc: tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp > Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 18:00:25 +0900 > > >> 3. Value (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) is good for typical scroll and > >> occasional fast scroll with the muscle memory. > > > > Item 3, the current default on macOS, makes Shift have the opposite > > effect from what it produces on other platforms. Which is in general > > against our policy, AFAIU. > > Value (1 ((shift) . 1) ((control))) isn't as useful as value (1 ((shift) > . 5) ((control))), is it? The values can be floats, not just integers. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 16 19:25:01 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 May 2019 23:25:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56729 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hRPkD-0008Cd-6B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 19:25:01 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f178.google.com ([209.85.210.178]:38680) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hRPkA-0008CP-K4 for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 19:24:58 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f178.google.com with SMTP id b76so2646413pfb.5 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 16 May 2019 16:24:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=v+Xsm93O8iNbMQpJA9dCAymAJbGTVKV6j1uc03AmoNI=; b=VQ4nM50z3yubArqmusoEp/vvrpO7VnIBTA8e71mHtYZhFzKyooHQbPRyBAMzW4AoTE O6cFe/lXCkI6nXOPI798jUP7sAnrBsTPiVITjNKa2bBjjGdVMEryUYKSGjCdTAP76sCF 3NhCt/kPBPSQhnY3bFrAc9Nexv1KCSwCldWf8M/QV+xXQInPxIYTPRtuRVD0N50KFwd2 x32pNpQeUKdpDlaUr6UH0XBvDJERdRf3QRrxpx2P42tVXCKrk/ftv+Q+z3aU6nqSRxmh JOStnL3jfy/7SEtNe8+qD2Z+2hPPIBqBBSV0JGjPDU4hEFlkpLQMPfCFOcUVN3UAwA2W c+Kw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=v+Xsm93O8iNbMQpJA9dCAymAJbGTVKV6j1uc03AmoNI=; b=J5AEknnLWaUYOZbJldxQC9NpHuUM5jaHQbhzw1zzcuwBff1myvqkjscyzMZHrkQS0E 8+d5GLxlpTyUHt1e+TDdLg2I4MWiygrjopIZ2sfGPLSujgsBAs/dN6B6dfjaOYljU4XV wCKl5Ev7W0Ly04e14+ED++r4Oo3SSfq9tlXQSCVwW2RwF0p7rJuh1MK8ybZ4d+R+Pclb fX6z7Yfr/q1gbZuPzuRo8o9gvZWJerkiA/ILASXI0ob6X987yZmnZVcaU2m638dHy2tW Y8v6hgpV74d8dLdIq134bPI5PN4Ba3fVIQTHXjWlQMVV9bIb3NvavJsElzyyrkGfUvMx IC9w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW8jXMTZuSzf+N4r9oJABAHSQpMgQlB3E0qXxjmwcGqF6DAmOGS EbgmFmDzLFHVXT92E+O+Y4w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxDCMgtD8fdqpylZIru3vIp9blMkEXYuSpI/PmwKiYYbtkXSJ/dY5FEAHiXmQh9AZFM0C7CKA== X-Received: by 2002:a63:d4c:: with SMTP id 12mr39867400pgn.30.1558049092683; Thu, 16 May 2019 16:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DreamMini2013.local (vesta.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp. [150.46.48.154]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p64sm10591338pfp.72.2019.05.16.16.24.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 16 May 2019 16:24:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Tak Kunihiro X-Google-Original-From: Tak Kunihiro To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <86pnonjlpj.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83a7fqbfcl.fsf@gnu.org> <86k1eqn592.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83o942cxm6.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 08:24:48 +0900 In-Reply-To: <83o942cxm6.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 16 May 2019 16:55:29 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: alan@idiocy.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, Tak Kunihiro , tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> >> 3. Value (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) is good for typical scroll and >> >> occasional fast scroll with the muscle memory. >> > >> > Item 3, the current default on macOS, makes Shift have the opposite >> > effect from what it produces on other platforms. Which is in general >> > against our policy, AFAIU. >> >> Value (1 ((shift) . 1) ((control))) isn't as useful as value (1 ((shift) >> . 5) ((control))), is it? > > The values can be floats, not just integers. True. However, scrolling with float value is relative to number of lines in a screen. Value (1 ((shift) . 0.2) ((control))) is equal to value (1 ((shift) . 10) ((control))). To scroll less on shift, pixel-wise scroll is required, which is possible on theory. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 17 01:39:39 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 May 2019 05:39:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57009 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hRVal-0005cd-Gc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 01:39:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50812) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hRVaj-0005cR-QX for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 01:39:38 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36516) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRVaa-0005ud-O8; Fri, 17 May 2019 01:39:28 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1437 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hRVaY-0006Kb-Jz; Fri, 17 May 2019 01:39:28 -0400 Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 08:39:18 +0300 Message-Id: <834l5td4hl.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Tak Kunihiro In-reply-to: (message from Tak Kunihiro on Fri, 17 May 2019 08:24:48 +0900) Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <86pnonjlpj.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83a7fqbfcl.fsf@gnu.org> <86k1eqn592.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83o942cxm6.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com, alan@idiocy.org, rpluim@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Tak Kunihiro > Cc: Tak Kunihiro , alan@idiocy.org, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com > Cc: tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp > Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 08:24:48 +0900 > > >> Value (1 ((shift) . 1) ((control))) isn't as useful as value (1 ((shift) > >> . 5) ((control))), is it? > > > > The values can be floats, not just integers. > > True. However, scrolling with float value is relative to number of > lines in a screen. Granted, I know that. However, since Emacs knows the size of the screen, it could compute the equivalent of lines in screen units. And even if not, the approximate size of today's windows is known in advance, and what's important (to me) is to keep the slowing-down effect of Shift, even if it slows down by a different ratio. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 18 04:51:11 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 May 2019 08:51:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59620 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hRv3e-0003NN-RQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 May 2019 04:51:11 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f172.google.com ([209.85.210.172]:34759) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hRv3c-0003N9-Sg for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 May 2019 04:51:09 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f172.google.com with SMTP id n19so4851959pfa.1 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 18 May 2019 01:51:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=ZOHVt583stCxPkWC68lifKmSbM/Z1bCM4Vv/7yBTWTA=; b=lHHfUPvzm2tkGT8kWWwz+5VJhfgazy3BkEU2rpDhDf8XThtbSl0YOzwFyXXKQxeALo ORh5tLpZ060gLf9FjceS2qc2pKsd857ep21+E52vRcWx9IdHWE/DY3O497G1XV+H8vw3 USsYexdu9gPLQFjyyE6VmPrDQlbV/PWoPrVAx7JQN9+KkxzO/rWixFoMLwj5sz1CITgp PHyQc8jvk2EvIwlD71EMRrsB7V3TpWtBO29xgyQHDku7cG2Ai5vSC7CRDoy/KkzxBplH MPHmdhxGOL89qskI0RVyVbAUc6J2pz62rCsmTCnx6ghSdWUSYGsQI2QsOnll0w1XtqaX 9WMA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=ZOHVt583stCxPkWC68lifKmSbM/Z1bCM4Vv/7yBTWTA=; b=AB8tBNzRoysXmtumjJaJqU/RvJ1eVIjsfJOBuvKTElqSWYBeIFdmC5lX02itcPg3k3 b8uogcGRtLpvBN2d6t+jw9UIrkQ/bYfQ+sc3z1NsxALtKbh1NIIyEhN2Iv7TZ/TMPcPB Kc3ZhBrNeracBwS2ekaQwhHKk8MnbuNu+RaZWhjwe+4m1kQLFuDuiRot0gdGDYgmqChJ VVpezQA+fz78eMsZwK8oHcAc+CsQMQOPbMdUrutcWM/MdDqhcOAz7SylMVy1UwH/spPS /WNs8jDMSouLXr+nQfpSq2C/Pqr6w2ejTgdsVWjhWIMCK2JaXwUJOoEmp2ksgQlA4Ssz VsUg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVOsSSF23bY4FLiK7Ll1ckoA2ojFHMyfZhX7mKvMmRshPIN7isY IuKm2E5jM4jJvIQy/D+66Ts= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqznNlDBOiNPmuKz44mfWUiSeQo6AwfhY+oFnRo0HajCUVRudOs+wmzbcbeP5p4CpYApBPctsQ== X-Received: by 2002:a62:7793:: with SMTP id s141mr374345pfc.21.1558169462980; Sat, 18 May 2019 01:51:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DreamBook2017.local (p295139-ipngn200212tottori.tottori.ocn.ne.jp. [114.151.222.139]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s19sm10874262pfh.176.2019.05.18.01.51.00 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sat, 18 May 2019 01:51:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Tak Kunihiro X-Google-Original-From: Tak Kunihiro To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <86pnonjlpj.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83a7fqbfcl.fsf@gnu.org> <86k1eqn592.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83o942cxm6.fsf@gnu.org> <834l5td4hl.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 18 May 2019 17:50:58 +0900 In-Reply-To: <834l5td4hl.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 17 May 2019 08:39:18 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: alan@idiocy.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, Tak Kunihiro , tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>> Value (1 ((shift) . 1) ((control))) isn't as useful as value (1 ((shift) >>>> . 5) ((control))), is it? >>> >>> The values can be floats, not just integers. >> >> True. However, scrolling with float value is relative to number of >> lines in a screen. > > Granted, I know that. However, since Emacs knows the size of the > screen, it could compute the equivalent of lines in screen units. And > even if not, the approximate size of today's windows is known in > advance, and what's important (to me) is to keep the slowing-down > effect of Shift, even if it slows down by a different ratio. To maintain relationship that is to scroll less on Shift, scroll with Shift should be 3 pixel when scroll without Shift is 1 line (15 pixel). I thought it is not possible to do even using float value. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 18 05:16:22 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 May 2019 09:16:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59667 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hRvS1-00040i-QL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 May 2019 05:16:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55254) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hRvRz-00040O-R6 for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 May 2019 05:16:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:44050) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRvRr-0001md-EF; Sat, 18 May 2019 05:16:11 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4848 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hRvRq-0003q4-BG; Sat, 18 May 2019 05:16:11 -0400 Date: Sat, 18 May 2019 12:16:06 +0300 Message-Id: <837eao9l7t.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Tak Kunihiro In-reply-to: (message from Tak Kunihiro on Sat, 18 May 2019 17:50:58 +0900) Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <86pnonjlpj.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83a7fqbfcl.fsf@gnu.org> <86k1eqn592.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83o942cxm6.fsf@gnu.org> <834l5td4hl.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: alan@idiocy.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Tak Kunihiro > Cc: Tak Kunihiro , alan@idiocy.org, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com > Cc: tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp > Date: Sat, 18 May 2019 17:50:58 +0900 > > To maintain relationship that is to scroll less on Shift, scroll with > Shift should be 3 pixel when scroll without Shift is 1 line (15 pixel). > I thought it is not possible to do even using float value. Doesn't the macOS implementation adds pixels until it gets enough for scroll, before scrolling? If so, why would it be impossible to equate a mouse-wheel action to sub-line pixel number? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 19 08:32:12 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2019 12:32:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34115 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hSKz5-0000aO-Rc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 May 2019 08:32:12 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f51.google.com ([209.85.128.51]:38070) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hSKz4-0000a7-Cp for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 May 2019 08:32:10 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f51.google.com with SMTP id t5so9064718wmh.3 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 19 May 2019 05:32:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=j5tay1AFsCc1BD6H+pjGSu2n2oJfJzpNZ8o2wZ2eHGA=; b=iPj4wm7QiMoYnhJbBTUa89wkT5+TfIQlLIOvIEL+bGY6Liz1yikdHmQeWz/jtMAmY7 RDwfrkrPvWo0P68SlBh6m2GeXWPfF5bge9A94avkqEFRJX5uSIE0NS0fFlG8XBVeCDr6 ehHA4gqDZarWaB0MAxDKkxK4yvoGVyhKVgHqxL3646YC30jJ0p0IBn6je2QyC6c01PeQ 55tGClsFhrf59OG1Hhd1pmZijVZO6Irrzp2YeO6stywc8PrBuVJ1xE4UQh+YRPoMurBi 02GiU1gHKAkPPju0P9Btsl+gqJXvTBa/nOmk5z947rbyKPIYaVxjHrvhSwqw3JKM+KrB MrBw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=j5tay1AFsCc1BD6H+pjGSu2n2oJfJzpNZ8o2wZ2eHGA=; b=XXRx8CYlECYQfBcdo7fmgCFkTyjbzYtpoE5AGQrcGq76gWIsXUT/MRQZtY55GcEB1z nE1CcuWgWffbs5orC7I9/1itXzf4YYNJsK9uGBU9wjvC4La2LuwIAJxGS9nK/ZF2C+HX gkyd3g+5uw5VJ/PTGpKRUlojTfWg4rbACHGK5rC6e4AKR8ORYMgOMB/B/kB0m9nANF9s iQ19KwdRQoCHNqb0LDph8Ak2VVMh+6anjimegVxzuCpW1ud8UKl67j/S7PndxdlgBynh +hkVoMZEwCk1pLk6Fig0uEdGjxskcXlXzb3PAutIIY8ilhMAdxIceO/U5Uow2y+G8CCh Q7GA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWIJ4oMARYtCewVbdM8S9UQMzeXpAfZrWkbsUxfC38OCz22SbZQ /0FmAJXeX1EW8mnJTmR/hls= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy28dAHNll1P0ztWTyqFUhSimvBhHlU4OcWJRjnHPgxLq8CXSm7F+iXFV5Zsb13XHdMmYb0uQ== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:7511:: with SMTP id o17mr1440151wmc.39.1558269124243; Sun, 19 May 2019 05:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from breton.holly.idiocy.org (ip6-2001-08b0-03f8-8129-a96e-154b-45c8-e27a.holly.idiocy.org. [2001:8b0:3f8:8129:a96e:154b:45c8:e27a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y2sm16397025wmg.9.2019.05.19.05.32.02 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 19 May 2019 05:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 2019 13:32:01 +0100 From: Alan Third To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly Message-ID: <20190519123201.GA4246@breton.holly.idiocy.org> References: <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <86pnonjlpj.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83a7fqbfcl.fsf@gnu.org> <86k1eqn592.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83o942cxm6.fsf@gnu.org> <834l5td4hl.fsf@gnu.org> <837eao9l7t.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <837eao9l7t.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.3 (2019-02-01) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, Tak Kunihiro , tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 12:16:06PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Tak Kunihiro > > Cc: Tak Kunihiro , alan@idiocy.org, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com > > Cc: tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp > > Date: Sat, 18 May 2019 17:50:58 +0900 > > > > To maintain relationship that is to scroll less on Shift, scroll with > > Shift should be 3 pixel when scroll without Shift is 1 line (15 pixel). > > I thought it is not possible to do even using float value. > > Doesn't the macOS implementation adds pixels until it gets enough for > scroll, before scrolling? If so, why would it be impossible to equate > a mouse-wheel action to sub-line pixel number? IIRC it’s possible to set ns-mwheel-line-height to a value of 1 and then the Emacs mwheel event (when generated from a touchpad scroll) will have an argument that is exactly equivalent to the number of pixels the system wants Emacs to scroll. FWIW, a setting of (5 ((shift) . 1) ((control))) is IMO perfectly usable. At least with progressive scroll off. The only downsides are that it doesn’t match the way other apps work on my desktop, and with a mousewheel (as opposed to a touchpad) shift‐scrolling is captured by the OS and converted to horizontal scrolling, so shift‐scroll does nothing anyway. I still feel a default scroll amount of 1 feels much better, but it may just be that I’m used to it. -- Alan Third From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 19 08:41:16 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2019 12:41:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34129 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hSL7r-0000os-W2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 May 2019 08:41:16 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f42.google.com ([209.85.221.42]:37851) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hSL7p-0000od-O5 for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 May 2019 08:41:14 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f42.google.com with SMTP id e15so11551907wrs.4 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 19 May 2019 05:41:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=T8QOhOw/wwJzBCNq87XDOnvHEAk9UdKDWUGP59SfL+Y=; b=R7JpH7iaLJuykudX20Aq4RGpImVcNUEk3F255Ym7V4LdQbkQ97g9DzrJ1aR3ozQgKd uHNfCutcAVsCi7LHX4Vz1DV7weP4Rk3PQmAtkDaSkLG8Vi6sAWmt2m7O1uToz12/A84+ AF1Ht6bCAsPMYRVyZF5v4bVKUVipQxygs1HsK9msvxQWnLV4U5Q2W1cG7Tc4/3y0BZxJ KdABXzWVT5c0VkeXdO0HLKF07n4C99ZOuIbQCmueBqIZdovzxDMH+8YysB3or7W/TByo v0Q6Nhupmr9Q1cDA2lNYJWUm8oimGxzP8IZASsu/jb4vMpAXXrZbgocSY6KLMXYA0/8g n4wA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=T8QOhOw/wwJzBCNq87XDOnvHEAk9UdKDWUGP59SfL+Y=; b=r5t4iu1gS5RGVtF3X5RsqHgWWKH5SJSMXRXK/dJSegpVM0Z0mIkzthn8Pt4SV091uU jLVVsjrk5Bizk0CxI63Q54XtQysgcbCm7ODORy/rlAx1odHYFuhJHUj4zsJy84FcWMsC NERaW1ErB0xTPvaWYYpB1mAYM/2BQ+eQd1g3TPJAV6R1olVkKqGPz2N9wE+AI9O6nGHP WeOiiaV6iIuXiy+dQ8FxKGEPW/8Fhwj07bBbBnMyfoMiTvF4FNtWbutYpC89+Xv1Ss0X gAr44K6ou0mBZKFmy02iy5CBY3LTzGov4VB+tuKXE4N1Wk5+GvNU2dLGsNJan9/wBpJR YRjg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVu0+YzU3KpGYyyHZCucw0FcnoNzDDBQ/OG5aYj0wLrrooSsJpO DK6/I6SHsE6ALHxaC2WQQIo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyOobq4TUSUUyCwwQmfMgWd97kINeAfMnoWd5gD/EqNBb3SbriorzoDc0Nq1NNe90q5BDyGvQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4104:: with SMTP id l4mr25485962wrp.302.1558269667650; Sun, 19 May 2019 05:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from breton.holly.idiocy.org (ip6-2001-08b0-03f8-8129-a96e-154b-45c8-e27a.holly.idiocy.org. [2001:8b0:3f8:8129:a96e:154b:45c8:e27a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c63sm14582959wma.29.2019.05.19.05.41.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 19 May 2019 05:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 2019 13:41:04 +0100 From: Alan Third To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly Message-ID: <20190519124104.GB4246@breton.holly.idiocy.org> References: <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83pnonbuyl.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <83pnonbuyl.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.3 (2019-02-01) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 05:36:50PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 12:05:04 +0100 > > From: Alan Third > > Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@gmail.com > > > > Unfortunately we can’t just treat each of these NSEvents as a request > > to scroll a single line as we can receive many small requests very > > quickly. This is what Emacs used to do and it was basically useless. > > The slightest two finger drag on the trackpad could result in Emacs > > scrolling several pages. > > > > What the current code does is add those pixel values up until they > > reach a certain value, then send Emacs an event telling it to scroll. > > Unfortunately those pixel values include a built‐in acceleration > > factor, so the more the user drags their fingers across the trackpad, > > the higher the pixel values will be, proportionally. We can’t disable > > that, and as far as I can tell the user can’t even disable it for the > > whole system. > > Is the algorithm used by the system to "accelerate" known? If so, > could we "un-accelerate" those values, by scaling them back to the > original amount of dragging received from the user, as if acceleration > was disabled? Then we could apply our own acceleration as on other > platforms. Would that work? I don’t think there’s a published algorithm. Generally Apple would rather we all conform than do our own thing. After some thought I’ve remembered that it’s possible to pick up the touch events at a lower level, so it may be possible to do a comparison and try to reverse engineer it. Or just bypass their scrolling completely. I’m not sure how practical that would be though. I hope your other questions were answered in the discussion with Tak, so I won’t retread that ground here. -- Alan Third From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 22 02:22:46 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 May 2019 06:22:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41442 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hTKeE-0006PO-49 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 May 2019 02:22:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54247) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hTKeB-0006P8-GG for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 May 2019 02:22:44 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:60653) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hTKe3-0001Vw-3E; Wed, 22 May 2019 02:22:35 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1922 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hTKe2-000841-4c; Wed, 22 May 2019 02:22:34 -0400 Date: Wed, 22 May 2019 09:22:40 +0300 Message-Id: <83h89n80un.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Alan Third In-reply-to: <20190519123201.GA4246@breton.holly.idiocy.org> (message from Alan Third on Sun, 19 May 2019 13:32:01 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <86pnonjlpj.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83a7fqbfcl.fsf@gnu.org> <86k1eqn592.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83o942cxm6.fsf@gnu.org> <834l5td4hl.fsf@gnu.org> <837eao9l7t.fsf@gnu.org> <20190519123201.GA4246@breton.holly.idiocy.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 19 May 2019 13:32:01 +0100 > From: Alan Third > Cc: Tak Kunihiro , 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, > rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp > > FWIW, a setting of > > (5 ((shift) . 1) ((control))) > > is IMO perfectly usable. At least with progressive scroll off. The > only downsides are that it doesn’t match the way other apps work on my > desktop, and with a mousewheel (as opposed to a touchpad) > shift‐scrolling is captured by the OS and converted to horizontal > scrolling, so shift‐scroll does nothing anyway. Then I think we should make the above the default. > I still feel a default scroll amount of 1 feels much better, but it > may just be that I’m used to it. People who want a behavior different from the default can always customize, right? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 23 00:24:27 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 May 2019 04:24:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43672 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hTfHH-0003B8-Ie for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 May 2019 00:24:27 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f170.google.com ([209.85.214.170]:35055) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hTfHF-0003As-Ah for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 May 2019 00:24:25 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f170.google.com with SMTP id p1so2128502plo.2 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 22 May 2019 21:24:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=RMklPTn9+5DOelDz4sfltirzMz8wpJnsRMbkOrCjFTA=; b=bcIYran10S+SylQQX0ghMDM56pBBZyKjkMRpeTN/nCnx2sgJC3Yl6Ro/LAhFviEFjz vOseiDxZ0NMpFlaB/It6lHu+Yjt63y3I8pVdzQbwNFZ3RuI9uZS41O9BH+N/tk89xUqz Ic2fglP0xDSGj8oBH2WM8qjy2gRuuPswd0q0+AEt1o3cWKfx6hamFjllZZNWsFKHW+zq BKsBdB0iYsJeWJ9dFisiANa9FuwRmbxXElcjvMKAuLeN5TP9tlQOlJwD8km14uzAyrAt HU+mzDgAOeW69tJjaU8HRr/QgRP13CByuuuh1GtTzQx8g5hJ/OTsukyDLNwdtp1kxiAC YDAA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=RMklPTn9+5DOelDz4sfltirzMz8wpJnsRMbkOrCjFTA=; b=GN5i2xTnwLuurw/kwFwa5Dln6fWpCoNTmulMZ9jBXn7x3tD1MhwiENcbV9PoS7PjZp sFMFi+wdOdj3UMWYpySoIHA8FFaEGQnUb1DogRU0a6SEUm5mIiac/G3hUPeIetZTGAuv 9tFFn1E5xakphlt2Qjj5GMdxsgTwth8Czliag33QfEYD6/U9Nc03YByF4n17dcLyVWDP pd/T32q/Yhebf5h/xNcwvi8XG18T6aI4vRMded72Otnm9aMVoOX+gUCO8ooW3LQrL1JC 4DTh9PD4xrIhakArbKMjTO2F0XOtCkAnV4VrqZteZVHsCKycdEnEdt1Li/j8UVDxtLQF g3bg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVwA75T0jRS/yj93htL21U67Uu0xhE/s+tIY0XYXRJHbZDy+CR1 5YcyzP6t0GbwN2RJlv8kBDE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzvTbLxXzXYaQA1eCLyq88YZ+BuVPfY6mCUQ2qDnc2D6Gu6aIraDPvCekX63oka7BBc9LVCBg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:a415:: with SMTP id p21mr81332701plq.286.1558585459336; Wed, 22 May 2019 21:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DreamMini2019.local (vesta.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp. [150.46.48.154]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 194sm39206937pfb.125.2019.05.22.21.24.17 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 22 May 2019 21:24:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Tak Kunihiro X-Google-Original-From: Tak Kunihiro To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <86pnonjlpj.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83a7fqbfcl.fsf@gnu.org> <86k1eqn592.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83o942cxm6.fsf@gnu.org> <834l5td4hl.fsf@gnu.org> <837eao9l7t.fsf@gnu.org> <20190519123201.GA4246@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83h89n80un.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 13:24:15 +0900 In-Reply-To: <83h89n80un.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 22 May 2019 09:22:40 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: Alan Third , rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> FWIW, a setting of >>=20 >> (5 ((shift) . 1) ((control))) >>=20=20=20=20=20 >> is IMO perfectly usable. At least with progressive scroll off. The >> only downsides are that it doesn=E2=80=99t match the way other apps work= on my >> desktop, and with a mousewheel (as opposed to a touchpad) >> shift=E2=80=90scrolling is captured by the OS and converted to horizontal >> scrolling, so shift=E2=80=90scroll does nothing anyway. > > Then I think we should make the above the default. I have no objection to it. To be consistent among platform, should mouse-wheel-progressive-speed be t? >> I still feel a default scroll amount of 1 feels much better, but it >> may just be that I=E2=80=99m used to it. > > People who want a behavior different from the default can always > customize, right? Yes. I feel different default value is better as Alan inferred; however, I think consistency among platform is important as well. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 23 00:55:10 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 May 2019 04:55:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43714 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hTfkz-0003xg-ST for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 May 2019 00:55:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50914) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hTfky-0003xR-1F for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 May 2019 00:55:08 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53707) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hTfkq-000051-Au; Thu, 23 May 2019 00:55:00 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3973 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hTfkp-0003XO-PT; Thu, 23 May 2019 00:55:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 07:55:08 +0300 Message-Id: <837eah7osz.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Tak Kunihiro In-reply-to: (message from Tak Kunihiro on Thu, 23 May 2019 13:24:15 +0900) Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> <20190512110504.GA82901@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <86pnonjlpj.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83a7fqbfcl.fsf@gnu.org> <86k1eqn592.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <83o942cxm6.fsf@gnu.org> <834l5td4hl.fsf@gnu.org> <837eao9l7t.fsf@gnu.org> <20190519123201.GA4246@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83h89n80un.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: alan@idiocy.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Tak Kunihiro > Cc: Alan Third , homeros.misasa@gmail.com, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com > Cc: tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp > Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 13:24:15 +0900 > > To be consistent among platform, should mouse-wheel-progressive-speed be > t? It'd be preferable, but I understand this makes Emacs on macOS unusable with mouse scrolling, so I guess we will have to turn it off by default on macOS. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 05 22:22:16 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jun 2019 02:22:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48584 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hYi2g-0007L7-VC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2019 22:22:15 -0400 Received: from mlsec.cc.okayama-u.ac.jp ([42.127.236.175]:18747) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hYi2b-0007KW-QQ for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2019 22:22:11 -0400 Received: from alml002.ouadm.okayama-u.ac.jp (unknown [42.127.236.168]) by mlsec.cc.okayama-u.ac.jp with smtp id 67c0_137f_837140f3_c9a3_46c8_bc97_2ba0a93b003a; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 11:21:56 +0900 Received: from localhost (vesta.misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp [150.46.48.154]) by alml002.ouadm.okayama-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1AB364C0D44; Thu, 6 Jun 2019 11:21:38 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2019 11:21:38 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20190606.112138.417113641534588390.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> To: eliz@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly From: Tak Kunihiro In-Reply-To: <83h89n80un.fsf@gnu.org> References: <837eao9l7t.fsf@gnu.org> <20190519123201.GA4246@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83h89n80un.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 11 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 5 Rules triggered AFF_LOTTO_1=0.2, EDT_SA_AU_PASS=0, EDT_SA_DN_PASS=0, EDT_SA_TS_PASS=0, RV6562=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6562> : inlines <7098> : streams <1823658> : uri <2853156> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: alan@idiocy.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> To be consistent among platform, should mouse-wheel-progressive-speed be >> t? > > It'd be preferable, but I understand this makes Emacs on macOS > unusable with mouse scrolling, so I guess we will have to turn it off > by default on macOS. Following patch will make mouse-wheel-scroll-amount consistent among platform. Can you install it? * Commit log Author: Tak Kunihiro Make mouse-wheel-scroll-amount consistent among platform * lisp/term/ns-win.el Do not put any values on mouse-wheel-scroll-amount on ns. * Patch diff --git a/lisp/term/ns-win.el b/lisp/term/ns-win.el index 6a668b213d..15f3f76838 100644 --- a/lisp/term/ns-win.el +++ b/lisp/term/ns-win.el @@ -745,7 +745,6 @@ mouse-wheel-progressive-speed (string-to-number (match-string 1 ns-version-string))))) ;; Appkit 1138 ~= macOS 10.7. (when (>= appkit-version 1138) - (setq mouse-wheel-scroll-amount '(1 ((shift) . 5) ((control)))) (put 'mouse-wheel-scroll-amount 'customized-value (list (custom-quote (symbol-value 'mouse-wheel-scroll-amount)))) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 07 14:31:43 2019 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jun 2019 18:31:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52410 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hZJeQ-00036D-0x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jun 2019 14:31:43 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f50.google.com ([209.85.128.50]:51623) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hZJeO-000360-Mh for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jun 2019 14:31:41 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f50.google.com with SMTP id f10so3000590wmb.1 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 07 Jun 2019 11:31:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=3tfFUg8NjdsxdzMr5xmDgRe/7bdvk/Xk5B1k8NGUR1c=; b=a7J730NLoG9GGcmS/H/yWmB8ZlpaVZKyLVo2ET8HkryKONHDs8N6gOOzMxPkPcXgl0 a32ZlwkuG/bq0D/j/oVcx7g7/WNV95ejPaGs7KmDTAzLUnNpL8EF1uy8Dan3beYyjS/a ZMKXyBFGBRoyqIWEwK6h7XDRq+GJhHf+B7AxJAu7p4WPDPXx/qSJ+LFWcigc2OkfsQPJ 4f4JGBgel1l299D13rjeL1x6ZIXW9zXByFY3VsJt5QXXLf6N14V7oNM1J/N0mKVsi+IB k5GV8vIEIYdYDYSoYDQVsjbAA3iLznYlSWbU0S2EjScNHubu70BGEnqBc8Vd9SllFfHy wqjQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=3tfFUg8NjdsxdzMr5xmDgRe/7bdvk/Xk5B1k8NGUR1c=; b=X4fDtko53m8GeTjtHBKP83cVCI2YhYoJUisx6vv8vVEErQJ24mu/ECz3/Z6KgfRkCt luU0P5XY6r1U1kvH7V7ICRo/aePPW0qvFl28U9MBRkR3SEsiRuyIDv+AEZPQNTaUnJya dX2Pms+y4IJU46GYAUBIcEMb1TkvN5IkkoLCq/PMSh0EaCKFn44ndVFiXx0VrGAs5e4V R4EaPUBz+bS1f6vXw8h0gGuj4Ve2ohH157P26lKCxpGj9Zrx4Cb3yRtTDjzp/YfXMq09 GqymG63DjDjQZo8O5i9+xxPfBArk7edFd2jrpbo48ndO6NKZj3bOEg5Vxp7CzeiV/Gcq s1Wg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWQJ0K4G+12HHJIgQ9CAoabpj93MVozi60+RJ5TJhV6eh2JeeXJ j4BB7r8LTTlFLSiCO8E5Uo8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxIkKte9m+5oF9BGgHDOC0akN324TRDTCTx8nz9GgXxzB/YqcB7BkHyv86I3scYRQlrmiYZEQ== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:f507:: with SMTP id t7mr4548604wmh.149.1559932294584; Fri, 07 Jun 2019 11:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from breton.holly.idiocy.org (ip6-2001-08b0-03f8-8129-3545-cacb-7e82-59fb.holly.idiocy.org. [2001:8b0:3f8:8129:3545:cacb:7e82:59fb]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y38sm3697265wrd.41.2019.06.07.11.31.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 07 Jun 2019 11:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 19:31:31 +0100 From: Alan Third To: Tak Kunihiro Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly Message-ID: <20190607183131.GB48675@breton.holly.idiocy.org> References: <837eao9l7t.fsf@gnu.org> <20190519123201.GA4246@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83h89n80un.fsf@gnu.org> <20190606.112138.417113641534588390.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190606.112138.417113641534588390.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.0 (2019-05-25) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, eliz@gnu.org, npostavs@gmail.com, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, rpluim@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Thu, Jun 06, 2019 at 11:21:38AM +0900, Tak Kunihiro wrote: > >> To be consistent among platform, should mouse-wheel-progressive-speed be > >> t? > > > > It'd be preferable, but I understand this makes Emacs on macOS > > unusable with mouse scrolling, so I guess we will have to turn it off > > by default on macOS. > > Following patch will make mouse-wheel-scroll-amount consistent among > platform. Can you install it? Done: 9f4c945b5cfb2e26a65ca10453591536c8fb0ff4. Thanks. -- Alan Third From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 10 07:33:12 2020 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Aug 2020 11:33:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34686 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k563D-0006fQ-Pu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 07:33:11 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:46590) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k563B-0006fC-U1 for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 07:33:11 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=XGg3IAXhvPE75av1fZAfgQRow3Ws2iaJTwHK1ZMyIXU=; b=lMOWWzMs9RuMv+stMdj4osZg2M grrT2gKcFx5C7UPAMcLwzgMUs/2ZoKkx0XxaV0kpVrnkesn10TEQC1FYTzcm1mk3y6tHGfgIEvIsM 9cy25KJMDQiWUuHwO++a1QD5xrwFj6e+GElSXqs3CwCZRRM7belMBmNTXwsXuS/umrno=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k562u-0003M5-7U; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:32:55 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Alan Third Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <837eao9l7t.fsf@gnu.org> <20190519123201.GA4246@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83h89n80un.fsf@gnu.org> <20190606.112138.417113641534588390.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <20190607183131.GB48675@breton.holly.idiocy.org> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:32:50 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20190607183131.GB48675@breton.holly.idiocy.org> (Alan Third's message of "Fri, 7 Jun 2019 19:31:31 +0100") Message-ID: <87blji7n31.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Alan Third writes: > On Thu, Jun 06, 2019 at 11:21:38AM +0900, Tak Kunihiro wrote: >> >> To be consistent among platform, should mouse-wheel-progressive-speed be >> >> t? >> > >> > It'd be preferable, but I understand t [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, Tak Kunihiro , eliz@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Alan Third writes: > On Thu, Jun 06, 2019 at 11:21:38AM +0900, Tak Kunihiro wrote: >> >> To be consistent among platform, should mouse-wheel-progressive-speed be >> >> t? >> > >> > It'd be preferable, but I understand this makes Emacs on macOS >> > unusable with mouse scrolling, so I guess we will have to turn it off >> > by default on macOS. >> >> Following patch will make mouse-wheel-scroll-amount consistent among >> platform. Can you install it? > > Done: 9f4c945b5cfb2e26a65ca10453591536c8fb0ff4. I've just skimmed this thread, but did this change make the originally proposed patch unnecessary and this bug report can be closed? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 10 09:04:43 2020 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Aug 2020 13:04:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34897 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k57Tm-0007Dl-RF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:04:43 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f46.google.com ([209.85.221.46]:45712) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k57Tk-0007DW-JQ for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:04:41 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f46.google.com with SMTP id z18so8086067wrm.12 for <35389@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 06:04:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version; bh=0eIUrf68RRIPYn9VhhJdBkB8tyaA3oWvYSu59OVFX4c=; b=G5QVqWpquV/CmAk988eqmKOHyt89ykd8pCUbE0CDo3iYloHehNkIcFxto5eJvntzsK 7p61+Ct/X4ebD9tHXYVLfvuUOHLqcqp0GFJw3HqcV3FCgK8a79pGwocMay07DJ/sh+2b vczz7da0AxfToOR9mo6pS0HlOtqGSCNhSR2dMSwHR0YoKLLnM0KG2EfJVVa52q0Xutv2 6Eb7KVUlBD0ROHe5xnuzJvM1np50Bc/nuVx9NoxP3kOVTFJjO7b3nrIC+2+RaZd4Rp6G a9Z/QlzqxFw0k8TJGJLC6A02j6I7yZsUEQRguIe3hfOoSdUM03jThmhiO9xYpzs+iJfW EXRQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=0eIUrf68RRIPYn9VhhJdBkB8tyaA3oWvYSu59OVFX4c=; b=cTIYT0dbwsbvEgCaf1a3QBhmNqiR3Hc4natmrezCtD62Bhb7l1YBvm5J+C6PZV2wYJ XnOzxC6vJjVP6TDdJ/FQzYF1mtpRU09HJQBA1k++OAP6O8XdgOcexq5KErFiKOlhm5fS RmML1vyuj1St2XLJm3rkkDxTgUL8OOeFMGyUIHrtosbVattYpcC7yAzmrU+/t1btzm0H wvvIaIimD7mcxvI8h3uYycr0MCEPTFuVUK5Aua2r2vT0akwckkjccTIwPA7ZmbbyJZmn yGvG4m8szTwkOJriDacTNYijwtj//Uwd7RWsyYvYkfGbqo3cf+wLYS4afT0Jt2kLsrux fKNw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5321YA7uHVY8+UjpXunfGcLcyszzNPFlRq5P9AAn+YDQ8s16G9rs O04QFZ96NyinBW3o4zysbXk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzzlTGaI54BnEVepnpBS+XknIBHQO0DqLFlRpGNkKpUob/4RL2NOcjUkuoCVtiDCKjbg4/wAw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:ea0f:: with SMTP id q15mr24030021wrm.113.1597064674704; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 06:04:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rpluim-mac ([2a01:e34:ecfc:a860:3500:deb3:7968:a182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m14sm21435509wrx.76.2020.08.10.06.04.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 10 Aug 2020 06:04:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <837eao9l7t.fsf@gnu.org> <20190519123201.GA4246@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83h89n80un.fsf@gnu.org> <20190606.112138.417113641534588390.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <20190607183131.GB48675@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <87blji7n31.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:04:33 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87blji7n31.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:32:50 +0200") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: Alan Third , npostavs@gmail.com, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, Tak Kunihiro , eliz@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:32:50 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen said: Lars> Alan Third writes: >> On Thu, Jun 06, 2019 at 11:21:38AM +0900, Tak Kunihiro wrote: >>> >> To be consistent among platform, should mouse-wheel-progressive-speed be >>> >> t? >>> > >>> > It'd be preferable, but I understand this makes Emacs on macOS >>> > unusable with mouse scrolling, so I guess we will have to turn it off >>> > by default on macOS. >>> >>> Following patch will make mouse-wheel-scroll-amount consistent among >>> platform. Can you install it? >> >> Done: 9f4c945b5cfb2e26a65ca10453591536c8fb0ff4. Lars> I've just skimmed this thread, but did this change make the originally Lars> proposed patch unnecessary and this bug report can be closed? Yes, I think so. Robert From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 10 09:05:12 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Aug 2020 13:05:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34906 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k57UG-0007FV-Cc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:05:12 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f42.google.com ([209.85.221.42]:41697) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k57UD-0007FD-AM for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:05:10 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f42.google.com with SMTP id r2so8089705wrs.8 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 06:05:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=xEB81DpqnDpI+ofAw4sVYcfYgUbgrlpWz+1gbtd7oho=; b=p2JxpRwl8+0Uk8L8pz5HFfcUN774qK2sZReSF6ta9l8YsjYij5KlhcnktJ/afcWqab me54imZ9ofDir1QkniMjM27UpWiCbOKH7bPVX4NQPEtv/wGHigdYzvo/mFYKu+Rnxg6b HIT59QOacXIKP0MDx3GW4L4yi7+zWfi+7Gv4sUsz5aDISz65wd2ZaPXUR/11CYKAJkof KVMlfl0mZHC52C62fCBBAE47UtWmfdD8LL6jbed89GMXpeI7bwe2ypvZ6VmeA8bgiuAr pVea2QYAtLno2Eb8M1MTmMxyNM/ZmZtsSKA3bEh+LmLLJe2AbkVj4S+Dvi/sZ+cj5tNc BfCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Mon, 10 Aug 2020 06:05:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: control message for bug #35389 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:05:01 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) fixed 35389 27.1 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 10 09:19:22 2020 Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Aug 2020 13:19:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34933 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k57hy-0001Md-DU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:19:22 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47710) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k57hw-0001MQ-5a for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:19:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=UzWnJKg+jKm/Rsy7d3rPCuokV11wHmKuytHX0B/CCqI=; b=qpu5R5XnpzIQg99DXNzyqmvKaw HRI5QXfrqP3/8jYZvci/yUplfLttMb9vZH8a/5EwtHssuR2F61GP6gjoJvHEdOBx99ZiwvFUR4HLn FT08VKFYR0CAcIuf/ZLDEmqpxhxOEiw/ewaVlrw2+NkEVV/xMeg4NvgFEVtSTvbyAQDk=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k57he-0004Ih-SB; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:19:05 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly References: <837eao9l7t.fsf@gnu.org> <20190519123201.GA4246@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83h89n80un.fsf@gnu.org> <20190606.112138.417113641534588390.tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <20190607183131.GB48675@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <87blji7n31.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:19:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Robert Pluim's message of "Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:04:33 +0200") Message-ID: <87eeoe4p16.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Robert Pluim writes: > Lars> I've just skimmed this thread, but did this change make the originally > Lars> proposed patch unnecessary and this bug report can be closed? > > Yes, I think so. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35389 Cc: Alan Third , npostavs@gmail.com, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, Tak Kunihiro , eliz@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Robert Pluim writes: > Lars> I've just skimmed this thread, but did this change make the originally > Lars> proposed patch unnecessary and this bug report can be closed? > > Yes, I think so. OK; closing. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 10 09:19:25 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Aug 2020 13:19:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34936 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k57i1-0001Mt-KK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:19:25 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47722) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k57i0-0001MU-5i for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:19:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=LexzBXmsec8+W1s52anJ9m4kbZ2+5X6ZSC2w+GCnG+U=; b=BttK4eiMPsqbgVu2D/vR7JaWzD cRZaqaAA2aJSpAdj8ygbhMixJFiCNZvRFBjOAhoUMXUQnrNbQDI+NEFKmQroZTq7qDiJWYNa3xSYm R0XgqKv8qZAmHi6gF5WJwWNX0C4ab9Y/m60cMC3jxxBxK6zhny2RBy2o1FjUXCVTjK7I=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k57hs-0004Iz-CU for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:19:18 +0200 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:19:15 +0200 Message-Id: <87d03y4p0s.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #35389 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 35389 fixed close 35389 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 35389 fixed close 35389 quit From unknown Sat Sep 20 15:43:29 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. 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