From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 05 14:53:37 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Apr 2019 18:53:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46303 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hCTy5-0000lD-8X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2019 14:53:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60448) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hCTy1-0000kw-3N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2019 14:53:36 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:52503) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hCTwx-0001vE-Ur for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2019 14:53:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45979) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hCTwu-0000ip-IA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2019 14:52:27 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hCTwi-0001ix-Qm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2019 14:52:18 -0400 Received: from sender-pp-o92.zoho.eu ([185.20.209.252]:25724) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hCTwR-0000w3-7L for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2019 14:52:09 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1554490299; cv=none; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; b=eY7CLo+vASAtFIOJs/Ttl5lEzwEMxuk5BBb4TJYXNJIxQkBodkmKCp0ckMFjc2cSi4ZGQA+nb3X94OUqNnl8siISr6tWVGBe0Ij2JyRcx/0ZmyAMp6IksBNR8V9U2bW+dWjoQgsG6hPHX/d2AJzuO53E72zHWPdlb8ykUtN9H5E= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; t=1554490299; h=Content-Type:Date:From:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=wgFgHUP9nFKlzL+sYeTFhyCDcWUZKCy92pscqVUfUFc=; b=SMahkDp501ZMNBLCQeXn9/b8u9wfhVgsvwRHlLv8nb71Fkf38hqiuPMy979GuRE9FYepe87Dv+vzXtVksMZqlyxhsXa9IjWINkrJTcDf5aUH47RBt+1nrUHTI/sBMxelR6pajS0OZmr4qndPl5KHOQhq6nSY6pONVQu9TYNKKGI= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.eu; dkim=pass header.i=zoho.eu; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=moasenwood@zoho.eu; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1554490299; s=admin; d=zoho.eu; i=moasenwood@zoho.eu; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type; l=8227; bh=wgFgHUP9nFKlzL+sYeTFhyCDcWUZKCy92pscqVUfUFc=; b=IC8nWKakZe+F6ObHZAXvAwMPO36C1Aw8cPVyGy2F3Tk2ZGyOgyL75af5AbxG5pJI 7DFhEXN41bK8qSdfSK84RETi0+P3QbySNQ+/6ZU8twl0vdN04o+hMyLzXOm6CkgjUcA cSlwVaQptyoTHZLlpeZeqVm0ScPL2WDBHZPgbvzY= Received: from raspberrypi.zoho.eu (c-b895225c.021-67-7570702.bbcust.telenor.se [92.34.149.184]) by mx.zoho.eu with SMTPS id 1554490298632683.1717604628724; Fri, 5 Apr 2019 20:51:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Emanuel Berg To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args Mail-Copies-To: never Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2019 20:51:37 +0200 Message-ID: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-ZohoMailClient: External X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 185.20.209.252 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args The `narrow-to-region' docstring does not mention its arguments as is the norm. And it makes sense, often the first thing I do when I bring up the help buffer for a function is to search for a particular argument name to see what it does. In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (arm-unknown-linux-gnueabihf, GTK+ Version 3.22.11) of 2017-09-16, modified by Debian built on bm-wb-02 System Description: Raspbian GNU/Linux 9.8 (stretch) Configured using: 'configure --build arm-linux-gnueabihf --prefix=/usr --sharedstatedir=/var/lib --libexecdir=/usr/lib --localstatedir=/var/lib --infodir=/usr/share/info --mandir=/usr/share/man --with-pop=yes --enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs25:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/25.1/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/25.1/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp --with-sound=alsa --build arm-linux-gnueabihf --prefix=/usr --sharedstatedir=/var/lib --libexecdir=/usr/lib --localstatedir=/var/lib --infodir=/usr/share/info --mandir=/usr/share/man --with-pop=yes --enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs25:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/25.1/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/25.1/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp --with-sound=alsa --with-x=yes --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 --with-toolkit-scroll-bars 'CFLAGS=-g -O2 -fdebug-prefix-map=/build/emacs25-pkwV6G/emacs25-25.1+1=. -fstack-protector-strong -Wformat -Werror=format-security -Wall' 'CPPFLAGS=-Wdate-time -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2' LDFLAGS=-Wl,-z,relro' Configured features: XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND GPM DBUS GCONF GSETTINGS NOTIFY ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 Important settings: value of $LANG: en_GB.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Fundamental Minor modes in effect: show-paren-mode: t shell-dirtrack-mode: t erc-list-mode: t erc-menu-mode: t erc-autojoin-mode: t erc-ring-mode: t erc-networks-mode: t erc-pcomplete-mode: t erc-match-mode: t erc-button-mode: t erc-fill-mode: t erc-stamp-mode: t erc-netsplit-mode: t erc-irccontrols-mode: t erc-noncommands-mode: t erc-move-to-prompt-mode: t erc-readonly-mode: t erc-scrolltobottom-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent messages: scroll-up-1: Beginning of buffer [6 times] ... o-) Saving file /home/incal/DO_THIS... Wrote /home/incal/DO_THIS Type "q" to restore previous buffer. hit: 123 This is the one occurrence. [2 times] Quit [2 times] Mark set Load-path shadows: /usr/share/emacs/25.1/site-lisp/debian-startup hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/debian-startup /usr/share/emacs25/site-lisp/flim/md4 hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/md4 /usr/share/emacs25/site-lisp/flim/hex-util hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/hex-util ~/.emacs.d/lisp/abbrev hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/abbrev ~/.emacs.d/emacs-init/gnus/server hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/server /usr/share/emacs25/site-lisp/flim/sasl-ntlm hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/net/sasl-ntlm /usr/share/emacs25/site-lisp/flim/sasl-cram hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/net/sasl-cram /usr/share/emacs25/site-lisp/flim/ntlm hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/net/ntlm /usr/share/emacs25/site-lisp/flim/sasl hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/net/sasl /usr/share/emacs25/site-lisp/flim/hmac-def hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/net/hmac-def /usr/share/emacs25/site-lisp/flim/hmac-md5 hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/net/hmac-md5 /usr/share/emacs25/site-lisp/flim/sasl-digest hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/net/sasl-digest /home/incal/.emacs.d/elpa/seq-2.20/seq hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/emacs-lisp/seq /home/incal/.emacs.d/elpa/let-alist-1.0.5/let-alist hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/emacs-lisp/let-alist Features: (shadow emacsbug conf-mode mm-archive sh-script smie executable mailalias w3m-cookie canlock url-http url-gw url-cache url-auth mail-extr qp gnus-async gnus-bcklg gnus-ml make-mode eieio-opt speedbar sb-image ezimage dframe find-func whitespace cus-edit cus-start cus-load tabify nnir cursor-sensor pop3 nndraft nnmh nnml network-stream nsm starttls gnus-agent nnvirtual nntp gnus-cache w3m-filter ffap paren xsel w3m-form google-translate-core-ui ido google-translate-core google-translate-tk url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie url-domsuf url-util url-parse url-vars json map lpr tramp-sh term disp-table ehelp my-faces t-mouse man tex-mode iterate-files seq-24 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mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader gnus gnus-ems nnheader mail-utils edit tabs dired-my w3m-my w3m-tabs w3m-session w3m browse-url doc-view jka-compr image-mode timezone w3m-hist w3m-fb bookmark-w3m w3m-ems w3m-ccl ccl w3m-favicon w3m-image w3m-proc w3m-util time-my linux-shell files-my tramp tramp-compat tramp-loaddefs trampver ucs-normalize shell advice sudo-user-path find-command window-new count get-search-string caps-back buffer-menu switch-to-buffer super scroll dired close buc switch-to-buffer-regexp subr-x align-new erc-list erc-menu erc-join erc-ring erc-networks erc-pcomplete pcomplete comint ansi-color ring erc-track erc-match erc-button wid-edit erc-fill erc-stamp erc-netsplit erc-goodies erc erc-backend erc-compat format-spec auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs gnus-util time-date mm-util help-fns mail-prsvr password-cache thingatpt pp my-string search-regexp-in-files finder-inf info slime-autoloads package epg-config seq byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cl-extra help-mode easymenu cconv cl-loaddefs pcase cl-lib w3m-load mule-util tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese charscript case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 8 562500 116792) (symbols 24 49692 133) (miscs 20 414 2943) (strings 16 124316 18946) (string-bytes 1 3748017) (vectors 8 73884) (vector-slots 4 1902625 44262) (floats 8 605 859) (intervals 28 10539 2722) (buffers 520 96)) -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 05 15:09:41 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Apr 2019 19:09:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46308 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hCUDd-00019G-0S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2019 15:09:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41353) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hCUDb-000193-Kf for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2019 15:09:40 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([209.51.188.10]:40044) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hCUCe-0005f7-RD; Fri, 05 Apr 2019 15:09:33 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2015 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hCUCa-00049e-Cr; Fri, 05 Apr 2019 15:08:39 -0400 Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2019 22:08:23 +0300 Message-Id: <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Emanuel Berg In-reply-to: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> (message from Emanuel Berg on Fri, 05 Apr 2019 20:51:37 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Emanuel Berg > Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2019 20:51:37 +0200 > > 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args > > The `narrow-to-region' docstring does not > mention its arguments as is the norm. It does: When calling from a program, pass two arguments; positions (integers or markers) bounding the text that should remain visible. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 05 15:27:01 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Apr 2019 19:27:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46315 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hCUUP-0001YS-Ij for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2019 15:27:01 -0400 Received: from sender-pp-o92.zoho.eu ([185.20.209.252]:25745) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hCUUN-0001YB-LJ for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2019 15:27:00 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1554492417; cv=none; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; b=KEiINO4O/iK1IpVcggSDeK37Nq4y7I+w8bR3XWzoevFEvblIiL45AqQzK96O62AXgMNjFFXjvUGQvHdM5WmI2Z4Aomo+/axgGq6B+CD6daQrxnpftGvC8ukouyhVBFyx3S5X1GQUTZXaQOfg17HFDnkpyhPqM9xAxq3TaVF+vDE= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; t=1554492417; h=Content-Type:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=kJMIU5ex7IFN1erpIAiyWzlPuvaObFPMAOKT1NcNb2w=; b=DHOqTYqT0nsIYlhoFsVKzaFV64j3T+QoNxuNUItPIlEuWAUSutYCTqgp5F7Lg0Dk0kEclBsqZcrw4FNu4TbAqMxlkGkjic1HJXYSvIKe2o0f6eaSSVIDJZ1S2q2okisY6C8ANcl/WlzE3kpBayF1rJD4hYfFULNQ/nmQpF9aqRU= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.eu; dkim=pass header.i=zoho.eu; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=moasenwood@zoho.eu; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1554492417; s=admin; d=zoho.eu; i=moasenwood@zoho.eu; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type; l=872; bh=kJMIU5ex7IFN1erpIAiyWzlPuvaObFPMAOKT1NcNb2w=; b=M9dwpZbHsCNY5kcwoG9PpD6YVjKp9ek854uzFbwR4P4mkEKxi/t+ZkDd9YnqP3WP upM5dsxA7BfSHUz16ykFwsljSP3h8Jnie/C9yyEE2d14OeqAwoj0mvHAAjux1ui+8+Z +fzyV49cBVBjPbmz7AoCxnU4bZSsrLXv3TkMEHwc= Received: from raspberrypi.zoho.eu (c-b895225c.021-67-7570702.bbcust.telenor.se [92.34.149.184]) by mx.zoho.eu with SMTPS id 1554492416469138.60186554145446; Fri, 5 Apr 2019 21:26:56 +0200 (CEST) From: Emanuel Berg To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> Mail-Copies-To: never Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2019 21:26:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 05 Apr 2019 22:08:23 +0300") Message-ID: <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Emanuel Berg >> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2019 20:51:37 +0200 >> >> 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no >> mention of args >> >> The `narrow-to-region' docstring does not >> mention its arguments as is the norm. > > It does: > > When calling from a program, pass two > arguments; positions (integers or markers) > bounding the text that should remain visible. The words START and END do not appear, in that order, in the docstring. Actually, they don't appear at all. That means they are not searchable. (checkdoc-current-buffer t) would tell you this if you run it in an Elisp pack. If you run it in a C file, I don't know what will happen, but the principle is still a good idea both from a principal and a practical standpoint. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 06 02:25:37 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Apr 2019 06:25:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46485 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hCelk-0002Np-SG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2019 02:25:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41475) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hCeli-0002Na-Ig for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2019 02:25:34 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36857) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hCelc-0003n4-O5; Sat, 06 Apr 2019 02:25:29 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3747 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hCelb-0002t1-UZ; Sat, 06 Apr 2019 02:25:28 -0400 Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2019 09:25:17 +0300 Message-Id: <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Emanuel Berg In-reply-to: <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> (message from Emanuel Berg on Fri, 05 Apr 2019 21:26:55 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Emanuel Berg > Cc: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2019 21:26:55 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> From: Emanuel Berg > >> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2019 20:51:37 +0200 > >> > >> 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no > >> mention of args > >> > >> The `narrow-to-region' docstring does not > >> mention its arguments as is the norm. > > > > It does: > > > > When calling from a program, pass two > > arguments; positions (integers or markers) > > bounding the text that should remain visible. > > The words START and END do not appear, in that > order, in the docstring. Actually, they don't > appear at all. That means they are > not searchable. This is a command, first and foremost. The primary goal of its doc string is to tell users (not Lisp programmers) how to use the command and what it does. In interactive usage, START and END come from the region and are not under user control explicitly. So I don't think there's anything wrong with this doc string. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 06 03:10:10 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Apr 2019 07:10:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46506 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hCfSr-0003Rt-QR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2019 03:10:10 -0400 Received: from sender-pp-o92.zoho.eu ([185.20.209.252]:25752) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hCfSq-0003Rj-9L for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2019 03:10:08 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1554534605; cv=none; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; b=CAgGed6eqX8AifoUdva/xDLzqYIHPsVu7gX3BnRGBlnsh79an7561DtmmNZ4GUa0NntXFgvRZSNU8IgaojUy5Cj4B9wiqGJUQj7447727j0Braq3ohkaMysqVAqLYbZW19v/yredCq30MPDCSJbTlnSjaiRLpo3e34G9mql2bVA= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; t=1554534605; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=PEVV44aKJFOqvVVG/QG8M1y3RYhNDFaLs2OwgXRIY0s=; b=Yfpt05Fo6IZDzk1mYcyW8K8xhAhiNQetK/BENQjnk8Hb9gwjr1WTy1nJEjmO/VwndFTCOWITYhK5IcjOou3AEneFDIkxu2mHAkJQkrsIHNZmnAU1szPZu7DjW3CkpmVyipQX+HdWmLgj6Nt9JiTLrpCuuqgeVG5FQK3/pomlwLw= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.eu; dkim=pass header.i=zoho.eu; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=moasenwood@zoho.eu; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1554534605; s=admin; d=zoho.eu; i=moasenwood@zoho.eu; h=From:To:Cc:Message-ID:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; l=3775; bh=PEVV44aKJFOqvVVG/QG8M1y3RYhNDFaLs2OwgXRIY0s=; b=jW/Ofy9hY+KyiRMF+NONYKuS1ZdT0OW3FoZPIu9KFYzwT8vmK5SErTddhtX13efQ 9DvdZrjyfUQd+iS1HuKeUYTLeZdhVMNpoNkvyChECXonJdSCivZ6RV3TwBaeFH3P/U2 Unr6dTnaRhuP/exjn03+KO10Omz4eCik+5Rw9YVY= Received: from raspberrypi.zoho.eu (c-b895225c.021-67-7570702.bbcust.telenor.se [92.34.149.184]) by mx.zoho.eu with SMTPS id 1554534604835391.29794305162454; Sat, 6 Apr 2019 09:10:04 +0200 (CEST) From: Emanuel Berg To: Eli Zaretskii Message-ID: <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> Mail-Copies-To: never Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2019 09:10:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 06 Apr 2019 09:25:17 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> The words START and END do not appear, in >> that order, in the docstring. Actually, they >> don't appear at all. That means they are >> not searchable. > > This is a command, first and foremost. > The primary goal of its doc string is to tell > users (not Lisp programmers) how to use the > command and what it does. In interactive > usage, START and END come from the region and > are not under user control explicitly. > > So I don't think there's anything wrong with > this doc string. ;;; docstring-experiment.el --- illustrate docstring deficiency ;;; Commentary: ;;; ;;; This file: ;;; http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/emacs-init/docstring-experiment.el ;;; ;;; Updated: 2019-04-06 09:05 ;;; ;;; The purpose of this package is to ;;; illustrate the deficiency of certain ;;; docstrings with respect to the arguments of ;;; the functions. ;;; ;;; The first example docstring is from ;;; `re-search-forward' on GNU Emacs 25.1.1 ;;; (arm-unknown-linux-gnueabihf, GTK+ Version ;;; 3.22.11) of 2017-09-16, modified by Debian. ;;; ;;; To illustrate even further, I have ;;; purposefully written an even worse ;;; docstring to a function that only ;;; exists here. ;;; ;;; To test, evaluate: ;;; ;;; (checkdoc-current-buffer t) ;;; ;;; Here is some additional settings and ;;; helpers: ;;; ;;; (require 'checkdoc) ;;; (setq checkdoc-permit-comma-termination-flag t) ;;; ;;; (defun check-package-style () ;;; (interactive) ;;; (checkdoc-current-buffer t) ; TAKE-NOTES ;;; (message "Style check done.") ) ;;; (defalias 'pack-style #'check-package-style) ;;; ;;; If you for some reason do not get ;;; `checkdoc' to work, the output is: ;;; ;;; *** docstring-experiment.el: checkdoc-current-buffer V 0.6.1 ;;; docstring-experiment.el:37: ;;; Argument =E2=80=98bound=E2=80=99 should appear (as BOUND) in the doc = string ;;; docstring-experiment.el:60: ;;; Arguments occur in the doc string out of order ;;; Code: (defun illo-re-search-forward (regexp &optional bound noerror count) "Search forward from point for regular expression REGEXP. Set point to the end of the occurrence found, and return point. An optional second argument bounds the search; it is a buffer position. The match found must not end after that position. A value of nil means search to the end of the accessible portion of the buffer. Optional third argument, if t, means if fail just return nil (no error). If not nil and not t, move to limit of search and return nil. Optional fourth argument COUNT, if a positive number, means to search for COUNT successive occurrences. If COUNT is negative, search backward, instead of forward, for -COUNT occurrences. A value of nil means the same as 1. With COUNT positive, the match found is the COUNTth one (or first, if COUNT is 1 or nil) in the buffer located entirely after the origin of the search; correspondingly with COUNT negative. Search case-sensitivity is determined by the value of the variable =E2=80=98case-fold-search=E2=80=99, which see. See also the functions =E2=80=98match-beginning=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98match-en= d=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98match-string=E2=80=99, and =E2=80=98replace-match=E2=80=99." (message "This function's purpose was not to be executed.") ) (defun illo-even-worse (out of order) "OUT is a nice place after too much computer work. By a bridge the sound of the water can be very relaxing. It gets your thoughts back to ORDER. OF all the things I can think of now that would be the nicest." (message "Evaluate (checkdoc-current-buffer t) instead!") ) (provide 'docstring-experiment) ;;; docstring-experiment.el ends here --=20 underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 06 05:01:26 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Apr 2019 09:01:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46549 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hChCX-0006CJ-PI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2019 05:01:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38517) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hChCV-0006C4-UT for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2019 05:01:24 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38167) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hChCQ-0007wH-Ly; Sat, 06 Apr 2019 05:01:18 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1417 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hChCP-0000Sx-Ak; Sat, 06 Apr 2019 05:01:17 -0400 Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2019 12:01:06 +0300 Message-Id: <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Emanuel Berg In-reply-to: <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> (message from Emanuel Berg on Sat, 06 Apr 2019 09:10:04 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Emanuel Berg > Cc: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2019 09:10:04 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> The words START and END do not appear, in > >> that order, in the docstring. Actually, they > >> don't appear at all. That means they are > >> not searchable. > > > > This is a command, first and foremost. > > The primary goal of its doc string is to tell > > users (not Lisp programmers) how to use the > > command and what it does. In interactive > > usage, START and END come from the region and > > are not under user control explicitly. > > > > So I don't think there's anything wrong with > > this doc string. > > ;;; docstring-experiment.el --- illustrate docstring deficiency Please don't ask me to run arbitrary code I receive from the Internet. I'd appreciate a direct response to what I wrote above. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 06 10:32:18 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Apr 2019 14:32:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47337 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hCmMj-0003jM-PP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2019 10:32:18 -0400 Received: from sender-pp-o92.zoho.eu ([185.20.209.252]:25701) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hCmMi-0003jD-A1 for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2019 10:32:16 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1554561132; cv=none; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; b=RFvzzalFSOMUoOjG1Ehmpz+z355QPYGQUBlFXaMHMs+MeJWcZoq87dhA+9y2RwdTrAme56nBdcq9p9RQD2ctYgnn7R9dpd29F0ItK3esOA7/OUOo4Z+rAUfFTpUsxVOdTkFPamskBQHtvcooenMr8tIBHmHgtZwpnCcdlQcPAb8= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; t=1554561132; h=Content-Type:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=3Flzy20ZaBzabLGUVFdqO1fF2yGlNHJ3In45dPhulQg=; b=AuhWg8r9AfeLU1ZDvYGhbc6O7UyuJv/t+r4i/4fpXEAySF4VVJ51uq4x4I+yFBcdIn5jphw4+k1UrOztggcAfYpyFMUWJ5JmpcSdbQ5/yWYtEsa+udNvhY5G/gFwKm58o0dGQaA2wwsiLgjcoGDhnM9036VfRHfB/sW1O3P+3Mw= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.eu; dkim=pass header.i=zoho.eu; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=moasenwood@zoho.eu; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1554561132; s=admin; d=zoho.eu; i=moasenwood@zoho.eu; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type; l=371; bh=3Flzy20ZaBzabLGUVFdqO1fF2yGlNHJ3In45dPhulQg=; b=nWKUV4Q5mpOXbg5S+pbF0oDZD2I5pJp6vzAS0ErAlkkVsSCmWWnFJLcT5A1e0dd6 GVxDzuS0bN2wQOshqRrdoVmnqLENTrW6rEQT8hkW0hG+vYwAh91Npv2fzsYSKe5epIB T4Qp/w9JWjz1hm/nhYxIkTrB8Crp2ByV6iqZa9fA= Received: from raspberrypi.zoho.eu (c-b895225c.021-67-7570702.bbcust.telenor.se [92.34.149.184]) by mx.zoho.eu with SMTPS id 1554561132426914.5692646515853; Sat, 6 Apr 2019 16:32:12 +0200 (CEST) From: Emanuel Berg To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> Mail-Copies-To: never Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2019 16:32:11 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 06 Apr 2019 12:01:06 +0300") Message-ID: <86a7h3b3x0.fsf@zoho.eu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Please don't ask me to run arbitrary code > I receive from the Internet. I'd appreciate > a direct response to what I wrote above. I'm dropping this issue 100%. I thought it would be a quick fix, but if you want docstrings that do not conform with your own rules do it. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 08 12:25:13 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2019 16:25:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50148 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDX54-0007gD-FO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 12:25:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44417) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDX52-0007fv-F5 for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 12:25:08 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49636) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDX4w-0005Aw-V6 for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 12:25:03 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hDX4s-00014B-G8; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 12:24:58 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: Epidemic Crest Coast Guard Kidnap electronic surveillance X-Ran: _WXE*u'!egtvf~+'JSmeD'6{z*u_%70ko`}G_WQ\?%ddL"_h9e"oa]@e99.rr(~P,{82+r X-Hue: brightmagenta X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 12:24:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 06 Apr 2019 12:01:06 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) OP wants every doc string to literally contain the upper-case argument names, ie START and END in this case (as per eg checkdoc's "Argument ... should appear (as ...) in the doc string"). If you agree, it's a trivial change. If not, close as wontfix. (People who have particular ideas about doc strings could save everyone a lot of time by sending patches.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 08 12:55:22 2019 Received: (at 35163-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2019 16:55:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50157 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDXYI-0008Of-77 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 12:55:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50374) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDXYG-0008OQ-Js for 35163-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 12:55:21 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49961) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDXYB-00084O-7K for 35163-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 12:55:15 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3178 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hDXY3-0004x2-ML; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 12:55:10 -0400 Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 19:55:03 +0300 Message-Id: <834l788mjc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Glenn Morris In-reply-to: (message from Glenn Morris on Mon, 08 Apr 2019 12:24:58 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163-done Cc: 35163-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 12:24:58 -0400 > > OP wants every doc string to literally contain the upper-case argument > names, ie START and END in this case (as per eg checkdoc's "Argument ... > should appear (as ...) in the doc string"). If you agree, it's a trivial > change. If not, close as wontfix. Thanks, fixed. > (People who have particular ideas about doc strings could save everyone > a lot of time by sending patches.) Or at least a clear description of the problem. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 08 17:15:38 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2019 21:15:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50256 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDbcA-0008SH-Mx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 17:15:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44861) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDbc8-0008S4-A5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 17:15:36 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:59216) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDbbv-0005a1-Sf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 17:15:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59221) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDbbu-0005gI-Fs for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 17:15:23 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RDNS_NONE, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDbbg-0005P9-CF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 17:15:14 -0400 Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=44452 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDbbV-0005Ee-8N for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 17:14:58 -0400 Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hDbbK-000nXl-KP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 23:14:46 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Emanuel Berg Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 23:14:40 +0200 Message-ID: <86zhp0urlr.fsf@zoho.eu> References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) Mail-Copies-To: never Cancel-Lock: sha1:cv5FbtyU9mcyd2dPfhgOek3NQJ8= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Glenn Morris wrote: > (People who have particular ideas about doc > strings Well, I don't know about "particular", as I myself learned the rules from (checkdoc-current-buffer t) when I did Elisp packages. But yes, I think the rules make sense! > could save everyone a lot of time by > sending patches.) Should I interpret this as "one shouldn't bother the maintainers with details like this"? If so, I'm happy to supply patches instead, only I haven't done it before and don't know how to do it. In theory, you change the code, then use a tool that generates a note of the changes you made, and you submit that note, right? Is there some Emacs mode or infrastructure to help you with this? Also, if the docstring is in the C code, does that mean you have to recompile that source file after the change? Docstrings for C functions are themselves in the C code, right? As I'm using Emacs 25, does that mean I should get a more recent version, for the single purpose of doing this? If so, which one? That sounds like a lot of work but thinking about it I suppose it doesn't have to be. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 08 18:19:53 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2019 22:19:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50289 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDccK-0005if-Ei for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 18:19:52 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-f65.google.com ([209.85.208.65]:45434) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDccE-0005iN-LK for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 18:19:50 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-f65.google.com with SMTP id f19so6103907edw.12 for <35163@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 15:19:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd-ie.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Z9NhX0o+/3jbhAYSm0lXl68ojqUreakgkkrMdgctAyw=; b=slm1lS9rJDWTq5bESJMd7Dlq0JcG+xce6xm9mtnZuMyFzJ3XvWqHt6Nw8+hbMM/MbU qOrs7xTUsFW59bRs9cjdyqVa4kFcr0LyQ7tiIKoytpwizkOQRl41Ea7tb2dMK3MOE3LP CZpeTvDTrVop4tOd4cZbCrM9YxLyqmVEUeHANhwUtTE+To7LsPcq/WZV+9n3LDCNQ0uD gkFyy37BREaczSPtU7Kloa7AqraEpZi8dEsqDRBS9UE/BJCgPpgtQlN3+DxiLQX81Q7y TV9oslsIxwipUo3b56ygBtZwF5AF2HrT39FJRpoePgTkiqtpR2epjTk07HagbvgszcJf HbHg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Z9NhX0o+/3jbhAYSm0lXl68ojqUreakgkkrMdgctAyw=; b=Bkppfqb9nx5ikHl3p9+z3MIdZ4R45HF2rDpCro/koabMCQwxVo5SuyBBa5SOIYI5c1 QxhQ3b0VuDHY8pwjogE6JDGVJkLqTx7Du089d+X5m6288SNW6QxdoS/4ezYgCNvHaSf4 8Bh4U3HkQAZ24Nc20GJE/bHWRKAwq/aIMWQFu6qQ+X/gPj/mHDH0ORBrwfd3H3AHtifC InmEW0bKO4tycI4vU1r4g/PDBFmiLY7ptN83UPbmcovNKFDLvMsfhD1kOBTJcPIxNs3U rxPXw+TgCD5V1D7swgdzfYtxX8dR+Xvy0ZdJvL/DnxPQagu++MBCgRfXqNRmJ3cIarcy NUhA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUkik5h5jlw2Qax8dtbpdU/9y6MOb1dvTSLr/OgqAMLCbET6B5U WPb4ZSh6z5Bv2af7a+ABiaBdwQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxoAw3S1NZR+Tw2ZL7FLTPqS8QxrVT9BkXfAoH0Ooq7KxLkxuErI9TmoNNI4NQbJplqO/7IBw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:4f19:: with SMTP id t25mr18272260eju.165.1554761980811; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 15:19:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2a02:8084:20e2:c380:f786:805d:f4ab:1006]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p16sm5684862ejb.13.2019.04.08.15.19.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 08 Apr 2019 15:19:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" To: Emanuel Berg Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> <86zhp0urlr.fsf@zoho.eu> Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 23:19:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: <86zhp0urlr.fsf@zoho.eu> (Emanuel Berg's message of "Mon, 8 Apr 2019 23:14:40 +0200") Message-ID: <87a7h0cf7p.fsf@tcd.ie> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) [ Your Mail-Followup-To and Mail-Copies-To headers seem wrong, they should point to the bug address 35163@debbugs.gnu.org instead of bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. ] Emanuel Berg writes: > Glenn Morris wrote: > >> (People who have particular ideas about doc >> strings > > Well, I don't know about "particular", as > I myself learned the rules from > (checkdoc-current-buffer t) when I did Elisp > packages. But yes, I think the rules > make sense! They're conventions and decent guidelines for the general case, not rules. Humans reserve the right to exercise their own judgement. In particular, the "rule" to mention positional arguments in the order they appear often makes for unreadable docstrings IME. Note also the relevant Elisp manual node is called "Documentation Tips"[1], and its opening paragraph reads as follows: > Here are some tips and conventions for the writing of documentation > strings. You can check many of these conventions by running the command > =E2=80=98M-x checkdoc-minor-mode=E2=80=99. [1]: (info "(elisp) Documentation Tips") >> could save everyone a lot of time by >> sending patches.) > > Should I interpret this as "one shouldn't > bother the maintainers with details like this"? Not at all. Eli (amongst several other fastidious contributors) keeps himself very busy co-maintaining Emacs, yet he still manages to set a stellar example of how documentation should be maintained. I'm sure what Glenn and Eli meant is closer to "a patch speaks a thousand words," i.e. it's easier and more efficient to convey one's intentions by showing, rather than describing, them, especially over the lossy communication medium that is email. > If so, I'm happy to supply patches instead, > only I haven't done it before and don't know > how to do it. In theory, you change the code, > then use a tool that generates a note of the > changes you made, and you submit that > note, right? Right. > Is there some Emacs mode or infrastructure to help you with this? There are various tools you can use. Since Emacs uses Git as its VCS, the built-in Version Control[2] interface and/or the third-party Magit[3][4] package would be obvious choices if you're already somewhat familiar with Git. Even simpler would be to use M-x diff[5][6] or the eponymous command-line utilities 'diff' or 'patch'. See, for example, the manual node on Bugs[7], particularly its subnode on Sending Patches[8]. There is also some related information under Contributing[9] and in the CONTRIBUTE[10] file of the Emacs source tree[11]. [2]: (info "(emacs) Version Control") [3]: https://github.com/magit/magit/ [4]: (info "(magit) Top") [5]: (info "(emacs) Comparing Files") [6]: (info "(emacs) Diff Mode") [7]: (info "(emacs) Bugs") [8]: (info "(emacs) Sending Patches") [9]: (info "(emacs) Contributing") [10]: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/CONTRIBUTE [11]: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/ > Also, if the docstring is in the C code, does > that mean you have to recompile that source > file after the change? You only need to recompile if you want the changes to appear next time you run the compiled Emacs instance. You do not need to recompile in order to create and send a patch, though compilation warnings/errors can alert you to unforeseen problems or mistakes prior to sending the patch. > Docstrings for C functions are themselves in the C code, right? Yes, they are written as multiline C comments of the form /* ... */. For details, see (info "(elisp) Writing Emacs Primitives"). > As I'm using Emacs 25, does that mean I should > get a more recent version, for the single > purpose of doing this? If so, which one? > That sounds like a lot of work but thinking > about it I suppose it doesn't have to be. If you are interested in contributing code and/or documentation, it would definitely be easier if you checked out the Git sources[11], if only so that you wouldn't be looking at outdated code/documentation. Alternatively, you can download and/or install the most recent release[12], or download the sources via 'apt-get source'. [12]: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/download.html Emacs 26 is the current release, and it includes many fixes since Emacs 25, so I would recommend looking at something at least as recent as 26.1, if not the emacs-26 or master branches of the Git repository (I think Emacs 26.2 is due to be released soon as well). Thanks for your interest, --=20 Basil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 08 19:09:53 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2019 23:09:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50308 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDdOi-00074c-OW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 19:09:52 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-f181.google.com ([209.85.222.181]:40428) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDdOc-00074K-L9 for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 19:09:49 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-f181.google.com with SMTP id w20so9111819qka.7 for <35163@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 16:09:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=D/Z9jvd03yQ8zUIJ8zLVYYfZ6eDZfpNZportgW1eEPU=; b=CBxT7Xe+JsZMHIJCaFsCFbL1SvbXxv+qMJWFGqHaN90eK3+5s3LMJbhdmQiTfkzr/A vx0nvimNogqKdl7f9mOnVN8wxyDNqqUTv1gV/0OBJ21dRIO0JziNDmggXosW1v/az+CQ BS2+M+DJcQ+sCZ0+sTc1D7iAPE+sJOi38DMfcpfTMoYsbRq9VubDJLwHE6bwPU/dO3AS 9h6+4n0yFBNeJPDXytXZJ3oMsNegs1ANxEPtCMwElw/0LA7z3kow234vm6Pmj6Q7pvTm cOhHzwP1XnpGlStk7egbsmEy16S7tIvssWrwraITzlPm0zgCO9V1fvRnfPAmsGmkZ5Ak UjZw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=D/Z9jvd03yQ8zUIJ8zLVYYfZ6eDZfpNZportgW1eEPU=; b=MQztTQ4g/ROzwBevlBHjIQfO6jdxe9bVEC901qHusUow7eN/FegMlKef7tJe2rJGpD 0BsxCXVJCsiv62LnFPHW1TYwh4rwZT+ykmeyYWBiqdUy0kxdX51LgAQ36BLBuFuck1ez /b72hmwIKpIS5G4oj33+aUawp4lbvkp4FCahzqBeETP9h6NM13N76Ig8nKHt3hrNrE7E dD9S5E5z3dQR+CsL+OPat+QcEIK45RQElWmHhY7rNuDTrJzWd/fx4BWLw7N2P5FayMbk GLoBdCR5rjhgyyPwvVmiDkttKE1jaju5aYPfybYFa9+sjMiQ0e/F9f6mYxoTtBMb8zN1 QWuA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVAY28nUGQJn5PIN7X4qCI1Jqht6d36gswK1f87NILDyy6ivuCC RwUFCMl625QwOsB9oIUUsSc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyfduS1PZ2eUtEL3lPFWe63fTFuqknr1X6ArVewNNkXpVOX6+7jOTHysAYhhz2UcL8m6VfeFw== X-Received: by 2002:a37:9906:: with SMTP id b6mr25961298qke.132.1554764981056; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 16:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from minid (cbl-45-2-119-34.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca. [45.2.119.34]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id t129sm17148297qkc.24.2019.04.08.16.09.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 08 Apr 2019 16:09:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Postavsky To: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <834l788mjc.fsf@gnu.org> <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 19:09:39 -0400 In-Reply-To: (GNU bug Tracking System's message of "Mon, 08 Apr 2019 16:56:02 +0000") Message-ID: <87d0lwccwc.fsf_-_@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: , Emanuel Berg X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Eli Zaretskii >> From: Glenn Morris >> OP wants every doc string to literally contain the upper-case argument >> names, ie START and END in this case (as per eg checkdoc's "Argument ... >> should appear (as ...) in the doc string"). If you agree, it's a trivial >> change. If not, close as wontfix. > > Thanks, fixed. > >> (People who have particular ideas about doc strings could save everyone >> a lot of time by sending patches.) > > Or at least a clear description of the problem. To be fair, message [11] is fairly clear and pretty close to what Glenn wrote (perhaps it misses the emphasis on satisfying checkdoc). Things unfortunately derailed after that. An 80+ line elisp riddle on a report about a docstring bug is surely a sign something has gone horribly wrong... [11]: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=35163#11 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 08 20:45:42 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2019 00:45:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50357 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDetS-000140-F6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 20:45:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58266) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDetM-00013c-VE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 20:45:37 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:49653) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDetG-0003bg-NW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 20:45:31 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44371) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDetF-0007mM-GS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 20:45:30 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RDNS_NONE, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDetB-0003Xd-Ka for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 20:45:27 -0400 Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=53558 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDet9-0003Ne-BN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 20:45:23 -0400 Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hDet3-00108l-L0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:45:17 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Emanuel Berg Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:45:08 +0200 Message-ID: <86mul0uhuz.fsf@zoho.eu> References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> <86zhp0urlr.fsf@zoho.eu> <87a7h0cf7p.fsf@tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) Mail-Copies-To: never Cancel-Lock: sha1:RVhLcycOUEINPDrXBVVIqk4NJA8= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Basil L. Contovounesios wrote: > [ Your Mail-Followup-To and Mail-Copies-To > headers seem wrong, they should point to > the bug address 35163@debbugs.gnu.org > instead of bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. ] [ OK, now I reply tho this (i.e., your) message thru gmane.emacs.bugs, and after that, I hope to reply to Noam Postavsky's message, and I'll do that thru mail, and we'll perhaps see if there is a difference or both ways are broken. My hunch is it'll work if I use mail, but not if I use the Gmane newsgroup. ] > They're conventions and decent guidelines for > the general case, not rules. Humans reserve > the right to exercise their own judgement. > In particular, the "rule" to mention > positional arguments in the order they appear > often makes for unreadable docstrings IME. OK, the rule to mention them in order makes sense especially if you have a function with tons of args. But most important is that they are mentioned exactly as they are, so they can be searched for. Often, in Elisp code, you see this (some-function some-feature some-property t) Now, you can often guess what everything does, except for the last `t'. Brining up the help and searching for the arg's name to find it immediately in the docstring is a good way of finding out, fast. Thanks for your message, I'll keep it if this situation appears again. > Eli [...] keeps himself very busy > co-maintaining Emacs, yet he still manages to > set a stellar example of how documentation > should be maintained. ... okay? I just thought that was a strange statement. Like someone had _denied_ that (?) -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 08 20:48:47 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2019 00:48:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50368 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDewR-00019Y-65 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 20:48:47 -0400 Received: from sender-pp-o92.zoho.eu ([31.186.226.252]:25740) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDewO-00019P-IA for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 20:48:45 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1554770921; cv=none; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; b=aWJT70yu2kj8t43PsQ9ZGIdijviTLxRB276Wt+5YzuMZJNdvB4p0p8xYZtnNJfVvChWWe6n4D8r16N63GmNq/BrVDv9bMJR2dhJLp8XUSLOgDaOQf43x1xjnlOMCbUazM7eWtqUY7Hf9Vfhlyf90oVEaRMOWpP3a4bTWfgfMvAs= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; t=1554770921; h=Content-Type:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=x0MBmmxayJl/Hly2W6qxpNUagXhjRP3p7bGkmZTLCQc=; b=huy/WkV9vZRQAcvxQFLm5DCUc6I1cgS07DxDwEvCIvNyZiK2eEL58G5eocZd0QrY1zJYt84NY7kVh2TW08Xr3HqjAF+q07WO5yyMm42Q8bDxWlKlyjKnJiv1vb3ugcNvf2lHYmZdEf4nXY91ice4QgCZUTQSYZfkkcmfXyEcZ7Q= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.eu; dkim=pass header.i=zoho.eu; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=moasenwood@zoho.eu; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1554770921; s=admin; d=zoho.eu; i=moasenwood@zoho.eu; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type; l=687; bh=x0MBmmxayJl/Hly2W6qxpNUagXhjRP3p7bGkmZTLCQc=; b=oEiqUCrJQ7TxMp9N+pfkzaOAqufflDFgGivu6LSwKS6z8xsaEz2rdX+j8fgG3wJi YrTOm2XsCEy+1wRkLQK/PRIF3yBVY9rMUgYzGslEg3Ketpoe11PaZyzkBPlZKIBfIIq ER4dUkQ/zuy3NxpQRMZfQjXnZN9Uo8e8vzpr1JSk= Received: from raspberrypi.zoho.eu (c-b895225c.021-67-7570702.bbcust.telenor.se [92.34.149.184]) by mx.zoho.eu with SMTPS id 155477092021078.39181007040531; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 02:48:40 +0200 (CEST) From: Emanuel Berg To: Noam Postavsky Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <834l788mjc.fsf@gnu.org> <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <87d0lwccwc.fsf_-_@gmail.com> Mail-Copies-To: never Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:48:39 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87d0lwccwc.fsf_-_@gmail.com> (Noam Postavsky's message of "Mon, 08 Apr 2019 19:09:39 -0400") Message-ID: <86imvouhp4.fsf@zoho.eu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Noam Postavsky wrote: >> Or at least a clear description of >> the problem. > > To be fair, message [11] is fairly clear and > pretty close to what Glenn wrote (perhaps it > misses the emphasis on satisfying checkdoc). I agree that message 11 is fairly clear, however checkdoc is mentioned there as well: "(checkdoc-current-buffer t) would tell you this ..." > Things unfortunately derailed after that. > An 80+ line elisp riddle on a report about > a docstring bug is surely a sign something > has gone horribly wrong... Ha ha :D > [11]: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=35163#11 -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 08 21:09:09 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2019 01:09:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50390 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDfG9-0001fi-IL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 21:09:09 -0400 Received: from sender-pp-o92.zoho.eu ([31.186.226.252]:25748) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDfG6-0001fX-Ou for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 21:09:07 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1554772144; cv=none; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; b=hVT8an8JxTHUv9FJWpdjiF1b3ZTV4OIusfBtiamw8xbddnEnZNyyAr8ClJkvUYAPxJngbXwWHvYBaW7+OBKg5of7e3LhsiShum03Yz/tMVz6iM1vwRMZLYM/nT3Kso2tlObKJ+GkvrmrGWXrfqR1UYgzU2pzlfWAbBCQDRQ915s= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; t=1554772144; h=Content-Type:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=8Z6uX5Xq9GTNuJ7vlwDTNSZOPI5mn/MkWfMG6vQa0iw=; b=Qtd/yyyQ+2RCZOyzvOHse84d4EjXKL9wwWHMiWikzMK4xWTpf3/SnyWU138bCYbVhEacbfnPk18eUleBPI0GSKyuPh6GwG4yo/+cF+UNRbd+7HFZTL3WYMhNZctVM+amHf2eZhj/bQrIX2L/fS4eNLYm7wtEDR8SvGXTehYIDwI= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.eu; dkim=pass header.i=zoho.eu; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=moasenwood@zoho.eu; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1554772144; s=admin; d=zoho.eu; i=moasenwood@zoho.eu; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type; l=1835; bh=8Z6uX5Xq9GTNuJ7vlwDTNSZOPI5mn/MkWfMG6vQa0iw=; b=Zk7U8ySQ/SG/3Sf94jtKs355lJNX9aXK9VQ8iNVjOYNRRqR2WTmh1cnG7Xu+hIn2 7t65VoYZTnHg3VFrl1ZSx37rNehlbeV0Zc+1poOVpVr2yZULDkb/jV43MbSPDPoUjyT SO2wogck4A00ZbFoSBESfjb1xEoMdp4LTjwJcrYU= Received: from raspberrypi.zoho.eu (c-b895225c.021-67-7570702.bbcust.telenor.se [92.34.149.184]) by mx.zoho.eu with SMTPS id 1554772143576538.7672327919697; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 03:09:03 +0200 (CEST) From: Emanuel Berg To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> <86zhp0urlr.fsf@zoho.eu> <87a7h0cf7p.fsf@tcd.ie> Mail-Copies-To: never Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 03:09:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87a7h0cf7p.fsf@tcd.ie> (Basil L. Contovounesios's message of "Mon, 08 Apr 2019 23:19:38 +0100") Message-ID: <86zhp0t26p.fsf@zoho.eu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Basil L. Contovounesios wrote: > [ Your Mail-Followup-To and Mail-Copies-To > headers seem wrong, they should point to > the bug address 35163@debbugs.gnu.org > instead of bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. ] [ OK, now I reply tho this (i.e., your) message thru gmane.emacs.bugs, and after that, I hope to reply to Noam Postavsky's message, and I'll do that thru mail, and we'll perhaps see if there is a difference or both ways are broken. My hunch is it'll work if I use mail, but not if I use the Gmane newsgroup. ] [ I was right, the Gmane newsgroups is to blame. So I re-send it here as well. Now everyone should be happy and content. ] > They're conventions and decent guidelines for > the general case, not rules. Humans reserve > the right to exercise their own judgement. > In particular, the "rule" to mention > positional arguments in the order they appear > often makes for unreadable docstrings IME. OK, the rule to mention them in order makes sense especially if you have a function with tons of args. But most important is that they are mentioned exactly as they are, so they can be searched for. Often, in Elisp code, you see this (some-function some-feature some-property t) Now, you can often guess what everything does, except for the last `t'. Brining up the help and searching for the arg's name to find it immediately in the docstring is a good way of finding out, fast. Thanks for your message, I'll keep it if this situation appears again. > Eli [...] keeps himself very busy > co-maintaining Emacs, yet he still manages to > set a stellar example of how documentation > should be maintained. ... okay? I just thought that was a strange statement. Like someone had _denied_ that (?) -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 08 21:13:29 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2019 01:13:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50397 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDfKK-0001mi-MG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 21:13:28 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-f66.google.com ([209.85.208.66]:44825) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDfKI-0001mR-00 for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 21:13:26 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-f66.google.com with SMTP id d11so13365091edp.11 for <35163@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 18:13:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd-ie.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent :mime-version; bh=iJjB+g0a1tWfoymc9bAPUl5CbLmher/Xit2559U/VcA=; b=XfocpA6BzEffLsbuJNH+z6r/zHOJ+b1ZiQuRqVbPVa6cIFzu2xlKfj/V9MFNvnvCGm BcpMFDRLuxTEomlpbaQVCFFEz0YN347XtzHu4R0rYxNsIJIGJXY2ZTsZeHNuBENhY4S4 KWmC68PXlfpY9IGlrokqg6U4/4xaPfx+GJykq2mRfGbfdv7NBFl16/5xMK5nHoQJLtsg HZgsaKtQc/XRge+cN7TuBBRP6leq8+tofJMq6MWDGXYN1yrPKYdOo/SxMDR548voA1oy tr6L60cH62fL6S9tYlZn4hFHyuc7Bdq7+Al3m/gRJLJpZP01xGd/xiRJchwNvbiVkfzs GnqA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=iJjB+g0a1tWfoymc9bAPUl5CbLmher/Xit2559U/VcA=; b=SsGdNJFt6uoL89J6EWU4WK4A1k9pNIlJKldsMXfXPb4JpCvs6CC82G1sdSE3ksUSF/ tySVdy7DJuu7hXw2VrSxtTwWB18PSsgcba6LHTNuhGhAG71k7oILK58uFEHOrsDwJalN H6/3np8htEsIIWmRQRiNnwVZuotGEGN45fYrZS4WIOfyKfdVes6yGi9AA0mGPPOTm846 GDAVXPxCNMFDNtIszhTtUY1qVYs4c0muOTVYUH2hH3cW4D0SICcDn/xWgwh1UUEgkdBh 0PU30YlJb3FC2JroZQHJNotceOcU8XBtmg4XUOWxZAI/PYjmnAE4hYqnLjYkyT2vRyTj c2Lw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWpqkmZEdMsRa9Em8RiTPSRoAr/Tnm7wNyyCkI63CHK5ZIq7D95 mbJdr0Xa2CYZ0fwn1a9Bga0wihCQsyfvWTYw X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy5kA3e1bwhwo2VAk1tZ4yqHl5uv5YEB3l2LpyVIxmsjlW8bfh4TiIwxjNuah/fghbpf22bYg== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:c5ca:: with SMTP id h10mr8040711eds.140.1554772399834; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 18:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2a02:8084:20e2:c380:f786:805d:f4ab:1006]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x54sm9235250edd.35.2019.04.08.18.13.19 for <35163@debbugs.gnu.org> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 08 Apr 2019 18:13:19 -0700 (PDT) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" To: <35163@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> <86zhp0urlr.fsf@zoho.eu> <87a7h0cf7p.fsf@tcd.ie> <86zhp0t26p.fsf@zoho.eu> Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:13:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: <86zhp0t26p.fsf@zoho.eu> (Emanuel Berg's message of "Tue, 09 Apr 2019 03:09:02 +0200") Message-ID: <87h8b89e1e.fsf@tcd.ie> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Emanuel Berg writes: > Basil L. Contovounesios wrote: > >> [ Your Mail-Followup-To and Mail-Copies-To >> headers seem wrong, they should point to >> the bug address 35163@debbugs.gnu.org >> instead of bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. ] > > [ OK, now I reply tho this (i.e., your) message > thru gmane.emacs.bugs, and after that, I hope > to reply to Noam Postavsky's message, and > I'll do that thru mail, and we'll perhaps see > if there is a difference or both ways are > broken. My hunch is it'll work if I use mail, > but not if I use the Gmane newsgroup. ] > > [ I was right, the Gmane newsgroups is to > blame. So I re-send it here as well. > Now everyone should be happy and content. ] Indeed, your reply to Noam correctly kept the bug report CCed, whereas your previous reply to me did not. >> They're conventions and decent guidelines for >> the general case, not rules. Humans reserve >> the right to exercise their own judgement. >> In particular, the "rule" to mention >> positional arguments in the order they appear >> often makes for unreadable docstrings IME. > > OK, the rule to mention them in order makes > sense especially if you have a function with > tons of args. But most important is that they > are mentioned exactly as they are, so they can > be searched for. Often, in Elisp code, you see > this > > > (some-function some-feature some-property t) > > > Now, you can often guess what everything does, > except for the last `t'. Brining up the help > and searching for the arg's name to find it > immediately in the docstring is a good way of > finding out, fast. I think most of us agree that docstrings, especially those of public functions, should mention their accepted arguments by name, if not in the exact same order as they appear in the argument list. Eli fixed this for narrow-to-region[1] following your report. [1: a5da653319]: * src/editfns.c (Fnarrow_to_region): Doc fix. (Bug#35163) 2019-04-08 19:53:48 +0300 https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=a5da653319a3018074debfc7b4fdd90ac7ea838c >> Eli [...] keeps himself very busy >> co-maintaining Emacs, yet he still manages to >> set a stellar example of how documentation >> should be maintained. > > ... okay? I just thought that was a strange > statement. Like someone had _denied_ that (?) No-one denied that. You said: > Should I interpret this as "one shouldn't > bother the maintainers with details like this"? So my sentence was intended as an example of how un-bothered maintainers are by details like this, in that e.g. Eli pays a lot of attention to documenting things properly, and following Emacs and GNU conventions. All I meant to say is that these documentation details aren't beneath anyone. I hope I've managed to explain myself properly. Thanks, -- Basil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 09 02:54:38 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2019 06:54:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50468 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDkeU-0003oi-9r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:54:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37288) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDkeT-0003oU-49 for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:54:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34340) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDkeN-0006ex-CN; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:54:31 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3150 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hDkeM-00071z-Sy; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:54:31 -0400 Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 09:54:27 +0300 Message-Id: <83o95f7joc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" In-reply-to: <87a7h0cf7p.fsf@tcd.ie> (contovob@tcd.ie) Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> <86zhp0urlr.fsf@zoho.eu> <87a7h0cf7p.fsf@tcd.ie> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: moasenwood@zoho.eu, 35163@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" > Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 23:19:38 +0100 > Cc: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> could save everyone a lot of time by > >> sending patches.) > > > > Should I interpret this as "one shouldn't > > bother the maintainers with details like this"? > > Not at all. Eli (amongst several other fastidious contributors) keeps > himself very busy co-maintaining Emacs, yet he still manages to set a > stellar example of how documentation should be maintained. > > I'm sure what Glenn and Eli meant is closer to "a patch speaks a > thousand words," i.e. it's easier and more efficient to convey one's > intentions by showing, rather than describing, them, especially over the > lossy communication medium that is email. That is true, but a clear and concrete description of the problem, quoting the relevant parts of the current documentation, is a great help, even if it is accompanied by a patch. Maintaining documentation frequently requires judgment calls, so a clear idea of the motivation for the bug report/patch will make the report handling much more efficient and free from misunderstandings. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 09 02:56:49 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2019 06:56:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50472 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDkga-0003s4-QF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:56:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37634) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDkgZ-0003rt-Mv for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:56:48 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34358) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDkgU-0007Zp-Bs; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:56:42 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3285 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hDkgT-0007Mr-Lq; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:56:42 -0400 Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 09:56:39 +0300 Message-Id: <83mukz7jko.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Noam Postavsky In-reply-to: <87d0lwccwc.fsf_-_@gmail.com> (message from Noam Postavsky on Mon, 08 Apr 2019 19:09:39 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <834l788mjc.fsf@gnu.org> <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <87d0lwccwc.fsf_-_@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: moasenwood@zoho.eu, 35163@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Noam Postavsky > Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 19:09:39 -0400 > Cc: , Emanuel Berg > > > Or at least a clear description of the problem. > > To be fair, message [11] is fairly clear and pretty close to what Glenn > wrote (perhaps it misses the emphasis on satisfying checkdoc). Obviously, it wasn't clear enough to me, or I wouldn't have asked the follow-up questions. When it became clear, I pushed a change within minutes. > Things unfortunately derailed after that. > > An 80+ line elisp riddle on a report about a docstring bug is surely a > sign something has gone horribly wrong... Indeed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 09 03:08:37 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2019 07:08:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50476 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDks0-00049q-Ud for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 03:08:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40553) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDkry-00049d-U5 for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 03:08:35 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34481) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDkrt-00051Z-Gl; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 03:08:29 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4007 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hDkrs-00016K-GP; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 03:08:28 -0400 Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 10:08:25 +0300 Message-Id: <83lg0j7j12.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Emanuel Berg In-reply-to: <86imvouhp4.fsf@zoho.eu> (message from Emanuel Berg on Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:48:39 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <834l788mjc.fsf@gnu.org> <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <87d0lwccwc.fsf_-_@gmail.com> <86imvouhp4.fsf@zoho.eu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: npostavs@gmail.com, 35163@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Emanuel Berg > Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:48:39 +0200 > Cc: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org > > Noam Postavsky wrote: > > >> Or at least a clear description of > >> the problem. > > > > To be fair, message [11] is fairly clear and > > pretty close to what Glenn wrote (perhaps it > > misses the emphasis on satisfying checkdoc). > > I agree that message 11 is fairly clear, > however checkdoc is mentioned there as well: > "(checkdoc-current-buffer t) would tell you > this ..." Please realize that I cannot afford spending so much time on each bug report. I get about 200 email messages each day, perhaps 2/3 of them about Emacs. Just reading them all takes a large portion of the free time I have. A clearly described bug report usually gets fixed immediately, within seconds of reading it. When the issue is not so clear, I ask follow-up questions. Since whoever submitted the bug report already invested some time on it -- in this case running checkdoc -- I ask you to help me by providing the output, pointing out the specific details which in your opinion needs fixing, and preferably also explaining why you think they need to be fixed. Asking me to repeat the steps that you already made makes the handling much less efficient, and usually means the issue goes to the bottom of my TODO. If I don't act like that, I won't be able to cope with my daily email inflow. So please help me handle the issues you report efficiently by providing the information you already have, because you've studied the issue in advance. TIA From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 09 04:53:50 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2019 08:53:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50542 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDmVq-0006xy-CV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 04:53:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35179) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDmVo-0006xh-UR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 04:53:49 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:33099) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDmVj-0003CD-OZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 04:53:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49561) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDmVi-0004e7-IE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 04:53:43 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RDNS_NONE, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDmVh-0003Bo-Hj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 04:53:42 -0400 Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=34518 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDmVh-0003BT-7k for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 04:53:41 -0400 Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hDmVf-000FlL-OA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 10:53:39 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Emanuel Berg Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 10:53:33 +0200 Message-ID: <86v9zntv8y.fsf@zoho.eu> References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> <86zhp0urlr.fsf@zoho.eu> <87a7h0cf7p.fsf@tcd.ie> <86zhp0t26p.fsf@zoho.eu> <87h8b89e1e.fsf@tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) Mail-Copies-To: never Cancel-Lock: sha1:I7we9oEXnrw7taJs1h4Nlh00IjQ= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Basil L. Contovounesios wrote: > Indeed, your reply to Noam correctly kept the > bug report CCed, whereas your previous reply > to me did not. Hm - perhaps gmane.emacs.bugs shouldn't be used at all, then? BTW I didn't get a mail version of your latest post - the one I reply to now - perhaps because I used Gmane to begin with, I don't know. > All I meant to say is that these > documentation details aren't beneath anyone. > I hope I've managed to explain > myself properly. Oh, don't you worry! Not all of us think of mail as "the lossy communication medium that is email" :) I actually think it is the very best medium for communication ever invented/engineered, not the least for communication about technology (and "technology" not limited to computers, or course). -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 09 05:37:15 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2019 09:37:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50556 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDnBq-00085q-RP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 05:37:15 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f50.google.com ([209.85.128.50]:35256) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDnBo-00085d-W7 for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 05:37:13 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f50.google.com with SMTP id y197so2517203wmd.0 for <35163@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:37:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-copies-to:gmane-reply-to-list :date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oyq9Dq4RTkEE0Nflvhl/L3sjr4SNU06XT85dVjtzTMQ=; b=X+OGpofkp1TFDFJ/JSwLhepelziToHhN+H4bhzppDAHwrOy/RCLbphWGTJFQcokNwP SO7W5IYezwlCzXP1SPHY6Z4QDFTr2IGu1XMRMldslgfncfYcxmkVjtjPR0uxjOEnnWvP /tXGQPIOJKGaGcfe+hdMUm0oQibTxYYvPmxLmWvyWI4SY8CLJ/Mv/qMBp2Iw1UNZtO4W L+wXstn53Bfq06ZRQWd2XkGZ7GgVNymEA9rkpnerVb7TLUSp+NC+VRts/sWdaUnzbQCL 1S9ed6gqnKjxHmCRDxOhUn/efmRyxhIoMhsQLa9WmQ6f2eehzVoK6iLyPf5GHQfwa5VR n87Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-copies-to :gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=oyq9Dq4RTkEE0Nflvhl/L3sjr4SNU06XT85dVjtzTMQ=; b=iuGz04UnXw7q1Lel0w4swsPx/46TLHOYRxR+kYa+4FYZwnU37dT52/dpVgTdmRajzs zFLJWClpf2wjQEvYMeyQmh56qqnLjF61SGlB2IhhjPWnvOQFbsPVLaaSmc0T0mjoWi5+ uUFdADs5hl9VmXCMNR2Iypdxh1MeOyCiMew+fFjfohpSs1utjkxMgRrRGSIIANS4E55T Z3//eEwkOwdngNwfVksCe80ZClCZRfrbg8VSFk7jneFnFxfQ6iym9nig5NR7tfdhuk0z 6MAOfBFQ28mQJdqFQOSg2KUxFlKIJ3u8rDb0GRNMHqHz4WlUsGeYQBYmwz4BBAUh1fOU dyxA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV8wABQih84F9LcXDpLZEfdZtOs1TzJHjw8mldCpjd1ER5vjNld skcGoNI9H4ZH/3fCGRk3B9E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz/FGPZEYpVLkekGwjh36RQ7iJ3ESX0L11AnzJuEJ0tumAxsh9qGh/qGTV2ZnngrK0pJA5rVw== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:1d97:: with SMTP id d145mr20135419wmd.136.1554802626671; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:37:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rpluim-mac ([2a01:e34:ecfc:a860:31bc:d4ea:61ba:bb84]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b3sm34445718wrx.57.2019.04.09.02.37.05 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:37:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> <86zhp0urlr.fsf@zoho.eu> <87a7h0cf7p.fsf@tcd.ie> <86zhp0t26p.fsf@zoho.eu> <87h8b89e1e.fsf@tcd.ie> <86v9zntv8y.fsf@zoho.eu> X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes Mail-Copies-To: never Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 11:37:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: <86v9zntv8y.fsf@zoho.eu> (Emanuel Berg's message of "Tue, 09 Apr 2019 10:53:33 +0200") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: Emanuel Berg X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Tue, 09 Apr 2019 10:53:33 +0200, Emanuel Berg = said: Emanuel> Basil L. Contovounesios wrote: >> Indeed, your reply to Noam correctly kept the bug report CCed, >> whereas your previous reply to me did not. Emanuel> Hm - perhaps gmane.emacs.bugs shouldn't be used at all, Emanuel> then? It can be used fine as long as you remember to do a 'wide reply' , but you should not set 'Mail-Followup-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org' Emanuel> BTW I didn't get a mail version of your latest post - the Emanuel> one I reply to now - perhaps because I used Gmane to Emanuel> begin with, I don't know. Basil only replied to the bug report. Probably because you also have 'Mail-Copies-To: never' in your headers (which Gnus respected for this message, but I=CA=BCve added you back in). Robert From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 09 05:55:39 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2019 09:55:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50569 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDnTe-000059-Nd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 05:55:39 -0400 Received: from sender-pp-o92.zoho.eu ([31.186.226.252]:25755) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDnTc-00004x-Tz for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 05:55:37 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1554803733; cv=none; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; b=WHphq60hF7dpMhmmtrnVMtEHIO65u0p0TrKr8zNga9M8UW/O/MrB1DGNTiWSIGXjbph5H6kwDkH6W7MXRs0D1olLC1JRyfmlqUzRbuLNbr3C3clFtsHdqLpi4JmN3Hcv9g4vGJn/urPG9D84eV9Gksm/WKjrD5OQLx7ThA8uNns= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; t=1554803733; h=Content-Type:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=cSJ+rUpH/TplhwDN5EGEG6Kv1QhlLHcZtCLIXWqojRI=; b=M6cI/JqIBJpBujYSJHd+S4Zgi3hpt+4AFxgH5iQhEvYlKBfaAds2G4YcSP0W6SVaTsmWLfg7FugAOpGkGtYHe0B8hn2wonOD5Jsk0GIINY4l07jj0hhmSiiq46Cq0INKiCh4oACvSZQ6XfHLhrx2NSUWKn9vwWp4NAwJ0jhtKkc= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.eu; dkim=pass header.i=zoho.eu; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=moasenwood@zoho.eu; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1554803733; s=admin; d=zoho.eu; i=moasenwood@zoho.eu; h=From:To:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type; l=956; bh=cSJ+rUpH/TplhwDN5EGEG6Kv1QhlLHcZtCLIXWqojRI=; b=SC9cslvAY/kCil5DRcGJ+9WFbx6qacav4v7XycHOTdwFzrF4ED3Gbt7NOfzDNuWT mx3BkvPzDvbeZtredOMtQc3q7s5WMOs57CgIRPrwWWyRESCD0wf6vvWggTMZ5fIuLAF ln4/ywQvgV9rcwelOElGlGibbLnXk3HLW/IiqqDg= Received: from raspberrypi.zoho.eu (c-b895225c.021-67-7570702.bbcust.telenor.se [92.34.149.184]) by mx.zoho.eu with SMTPS id 1554803732513792.3503448003421; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 11:55:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Emanuel Berg To: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> <86zhp0urlr.fsf@zoho.eu> <87a7h0cf7p.fsf@tcd.ie> <86zhp0t26p.fsf@zoho.eu> <87h8b89e1e.fsf@tcd.ie> <86v9zntv8y.fsf@zoho.eu> Mail-Copies-To: never Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 11:55:31 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Robert Pluim's message of "Tue, 09 Apr 2019 11:37:04 +0200") Message-ID: <86o95fsdt8.fsf@zoho.eu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Robert Pluim wrote: > It can be used fine as long as you remember > to do a 'wide reply' , but you should not set > 'Mail-Followup-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org' I didn't set that manually, if that's what you mean. I don't remember configuring anything that could have amounted to that in this situation, but I suppose it could have happened just the same. > Basil only replied to the bug report. > Probably because you also have > 'Mail-Copies-To: never' in your headers > (which Gnus respected for this message, but > I've added you back in). OK, but I don't want mails of things that I get thru the newsgroups! So if this issue, the incorrect followups, can be, ehem, "addressed", then I'd like to deal with it newsgroup-only. But if it can't without too much effort, I can just remember to use mail instead of the newsgroup for bugs in particular, no big deal. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 09 07:42:27 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2019 11:42:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50640 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDp91-0004x1-FA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 07:42:27 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f41.google.com ([209.85.128.41]:53569) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDp8z-0004wn-Ez for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 07:42:26 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f41.google.com with SMTP id q16so3109425wmj.3 for <35163@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 04:42:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:references:mail-copies-to:gmane-reply-to-list:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=aTqYgyKs1yeip+5VdVlgV3luJaeuiqc6b64KyD/VUao=; b=N9pXAz4HjJo7Tk1Bpar7BK8VHtOlsh/M1xkOPij8DasZ7InBdb43O/HIolY0oCqi3X dRxkzWdl6FYLAwNIOpKfVG3SCPINzY6C26SlBIG35JzPHhSI5I4DvM5ydmgoxBx7Mlv0 T6JiAbdlGVzjylC+9DcrOsKFsixOKG0REaWqD0VqEpMCa6corA8m4vFg0AlHaWeyaMBw gcqi87TZ3b7PpIE53kVlyO2DSJhdSyT82Ce+NXceD3dhCd/JaY0ThdM25RMeLxmMXogA 0bHOtfp6W2WQ2U5n5bHGnWcYKpO1jYGXLtQqITjhIt3TQnbI2K12CoqtXpOd3G2En+zV Xvuw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:references:mail-copies-to :gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=aTqYgyKs1yeip+5VdVlgV3luJaeuiqc6b64KyD/VUao=; b=OgPIvfKPRkl8BA1fCvnOIdcv96utjnhQbryPQHMd9kKGZ6oa6xbW2a1zBJunpzDYEd /TagmevlBjkWP7tQqf9Tu8LDDbzZo1eBcdUVfPeoFxOtNxb2W24+RZV6kyEyw6N06it+ pZe12DpMAoJCkgK5n5afxrRGOiYvjEuzg2yhUV6LBYapBfchORt4ZbEouuVRBIt+taft z16ke2t1Yu20uEiMuPJjbtirxb0Xn8nxChz17RtJvZ5u729S5oZDGXCylV14rqakbbWA vCa7gK2nTrGGYqC5TEwUhFm0VMOb/y3E/h8tPxLR3O+ZRRDcfa+9de4Z+YFeqAbYu3mF q39g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXw9QzdCRxgZMpnkDRHlmlIiHwwNWZRDA1nMhtJvSJ/C51BN76A nYtGVs6tueeHVDvAOKYtiTodPEaN X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw37IsA6xuWMc7+dkfAcfKZxVLpPXSJXtmzjXJcQBbNrGRfn/iLPwAWQdn9aubOmFQ/VJpsyQ== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:6c09:: with SMTP id h9mr1833623wmc.130.1554810138170; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 04:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rpluim-mac ([2a01:e34:ecfc:a860:31bc:d4ea:61ba:bb84]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g8sm51775276wro.77.2019.04.09.04.42.16 for <35163@debbugs.gnu.org> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 09 Apr 2019 04:42:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> <86zhp0urlr.fsf@zoho.eu> <87a7h0cf7p.fsf@tcd.ie> <86zhp0t26p.fsf@zoho.eu> <87h8b89e1e.fsf@tcd.ie> <86v9zntv8y.fsf@zoho.eu> <86o95fsdt8.fsf@zoho.eu> X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes Mail-Copies-To: never Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 13:42:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: <86o95fsdt8.fsf@zoho.eu> (Emanuel Berg's message of "Tue, 09 Apr 2019 11:55:31 +0200") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Tue, 09 Apr 2019 11:55:31 +0200, Emanuel Berg = said: Emanuel> Robert Pluim wrote: >> It can be used fine as long as you remember to do a 'wide >> reply' , but you should not set 'Mail-Followup-To: >> bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org' Emanuel> I didn't set that manually, if that's what you mean. I Emanuel> don't remember configuring anything that could have Emanuel> amounted to that in this situation, but I suppose it Emanuel> could have happened just the same. It=CA=BCs possible that it=CA=BCs set in your Gnus group parameters or similar. Or it=CA=BCs an artifact of using gmane. >> Basil only replied to the bug report. Probably because you >> also have 'Mail-Copies-To: never' in your headers (which Gnus >> respected for this message, but I've added you back in). Emanuel> OK, but I don't want mails of things that I get thru the Emanuel> newsgroups! So if this issue, the incorrect followups, Emanuel> can be, ehem, "addressed", then I'd like to deal with it Emanuel> newsgroup-only. But if it can't without too much effort, Emanuel> I can just remember to use mail instead of the newsgroup Emanuel> for bugs in particular, no big deal. Using 'Mail-Copies-To: never' is fine, as long as you then read the mailing list or the gmane group for your bugs. (I didn=CA=BCt CC you on this reply) Robert From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 09 08:48:22 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2019 12:48:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50680 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDqAo-00009p-Aj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 08:48:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34011) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hDqAm-00009b-92 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 08:48:20 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:58958) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDqAg-0001dN-Pw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 08:48:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48391) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDqAf-0005sb-OA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 08:48:14 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RDNS_NONE, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDqAe-0001aZ-Mg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 08:48:13 -0400 Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=38658 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDqAd-0001Ti-Te for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 08:48:12 -0400 Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hDqAZ-0018Jm-Pn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 14:48:07 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Emanuel Berg Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 14:48:01 +0200 Message-ID: <86h8b7s5tq.fsf@zoho.eu> References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> <86zhp0urlr.fsf@zoho.eu> <87a7h0cf7p.fsf@tcd.ie> <86zhp0t26p.fsf@zoho.eu> <87h8b89e1e.fsf@tcd.ie> <86v9zntv8y.fsf@zoho.eu> <86o95fsdt8.fsf@zoho.eu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) Mail-Copies-To: never Cancel-Lock: sha1:G8HaubKwmX90L1FKuA+ijegbaOI= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Robert Pluim wrote: > Using 'Mail-Copies-To: never' is fine I know, but - > as long as you then read the mailing list or > the gmane group for your bugs. (I didnʼt CC > you on this reply) - except it isn't in this particular case as the followup header isn't set correctly IIUC? Perhaps you or someone else can try using gmane.emacs.bugs as well so we'll see if this is a local config issue on my part? (Unless we have the same config that is :)) The one big problem with Gnus and configs is you can't really do 'emacs -q' to find out if the problem is with you or not, a method that _almost_ always is waterproof in all the other parts of the Emacs World where I'm a regular. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 11 05:47:03 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Apr 2019 09:47:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53873 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hEWIR-0000pm-Lj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 05:47:03 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f67.google.com ([209.85.221.67]:40220) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hEWIP-0000pI-IK for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 05:47:02 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f67.google.com with SMTP id h4so6433677wre.7 for <35163@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 02:47:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:references:cc:mail-copies-to:gmane-reply-to-list :date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=gpG2gggrZB62nnR+8ZZLXHQU5h2BhHKO/8ACI2EjfLA=; b=bsvuMznW/utok8dnd/ORTWKo8TsJDydmS/fvyP1+R62I5d7ES+NjaMEnPxiQRUn7b0 6smh07VCf8b114LxBZCDiMk8knAmXyw8CPNRCaXg8PRG95NUOdUtceorW/chc3P61f8q IrN5CJZAGrcgjbjxMS3JEXHrfby9jNPs1vTsmHx3s7MJV9AYlaGdOWc/k7nEZRC6lqUA iov86mZdhRW7v3aZhmBqZc3pQMkFDTHIcMsr22b4SdHB4BFL1HxuoAOIrV39cgdH72wr WpVdeNUTIYnx8qVl1L4Fhf5xDBruKg0fiAWM6B16yX6OtaO4KIRS686oc4Z9mWqqX+Fm b0iw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:references:cc:mail-copies-to :gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=gpG2gggrZB62nnR+8ZZLXHQU5h2BhHKO/8ACI2EjfLA=; b=uRVNsNRYwGks7TO/Auw0wtJnQIjp31lwDrFQeA4G7RDkKpcu9mVy6zIy6/f1qgY1BW m0a2JHuQD9QkDgJSXrO7Xp5kgkePEDVKBfAcV7VMdNUG3CeOQm0iebVq/pDMKR/WtTGT BVEZjYl++DkfcL/TNjmsM50K5D2qM6gwGWFIuT9pli6SY22tX8ndev7NnJsNIgCd2sV2 5O9SOxuLMbCdIqsGDUP/erHD/4ZnbY3CN/SAzyaGmx1Dd3iNue/OcRvN+tJlbK4XPEsp HdYp5bVYgDXC/ywE0fneynsdIxC+pXjL4s+dlyRQyh8bqoQpOvJG+sgR6jnL8+YMfFLz 1vJA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUjsfqwSoQyzm0is/hAR9IPstheqPzIN6tLAR32y8pzY2bZ8sQt Qkm4VI24Z5XLazQomTjSTn4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyP/emjs5j/Rh1aRGk+sUNjWu/71yYYUQCL66P3uLYalOUMAqGKATtX1jKTmwNYYKQr+KYiPg== X-Received: by 2002:adf:ef0b:: with SMTP id e11mr19227411wro.244.1554976015688; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 02:46:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rpluim-mac ([2a01:e34:ecfc:a860:d4bb:27ce:9e5e:258f]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s189sm9807221wmf.45.2019.04.11.02.46.54 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 11 Apr 2019 02:46:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> <86zhp0urlr.fsf@zoho.eu> <87a7h0cf7p.fsf@tcd.ie> <86zhp0t26p.fsf@zoho.eu> <87h8b89e1e.fsf@tcd.ie> <86v9zntv8y.fsf@zoho.eu> <86o95fsdt8.fsf@zoho.eu> <86h8b7s5tq.fsf@zoho.eu> X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes Mail-Copies-To: never Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2019 11:46:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: <86h8b7s5tq.fsf@zoho.eu> (Emanuel Berg's message of "Tue, 09 Apr 2019 14:48:01 +0200") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 Cc: Emanuel Berg X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) >>>>> On Tue, 09 Apr 2019 14:48:01 +0200, Emanuel Berg = said: Emanuel> Robert Pluim wrote: >> Using 'Mail-Copies-To: never' is fine Emanuel> I know, but - >> as long as you then read the mailing list or the gmane group >> for your bugs. (I didn=CA=BCt CC you on this reply) Emanuel> - except it isn't in this particular case as the followup Emanuel> header isn't set correctly IIUC? Correct. Emanuel> Perhaps you or someone else can try using Emanuel> gmane.emacs.bugs as well so we'll see if this is a local Emanuel> config issue on my part? (Unless we have the same config Emanuel> that is :)) I use gmane.emacs.bugs all the time, and don=CA=BCt have this problem. Emanuel> The one big problem with Gnus and configs is you can't Emanuel> really do 'emacs -q' to find out if the problem is with Emanuel> you or not, a method that _almost_ always is waterproof Emanuel> in all the other parts of the Emacs World where I'm a Emanuel> regular. Yes, that=CA=BCs true. In this case, I=CA=BCd use 'G p', ie ('gnus-topic-edit-parameters') to see if you have any specific settings for gmane.emacs.bugs. If that doesn=CA=BCt turn up anything, then your .gnus.el and/or .emacs is the next place to look (probably in posting styles). As a last resort, look in .newsrc.eld Robert From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 12 01:28:04 2019 Received: (at 35163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2019 05:28:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55381 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hEojM-0004aD-3L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Apr 2019 01:28:04 -0400 Received: from sender-pp-o92.zoho.eu ([31.186.226.252]:25774 helo=sender21-mail.zoho.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hEojJ-0004Zl-NE for 35163@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Apr 2019 01:28:02 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1555046877; cv=none; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; b=ZZddJ3SGHkdAM3Cuy9KdZ0s92aMYdxKQt8nwSZRSN/udBycFIHsxD11xr6Cocnc5Lw7HCr63n3ukPN0Lte8KFvsH0v1KbqrWt6b2pQLnWzkw8ZpFyxgro2kW5l7bDCHwqSDfLeJebPIbKyGWxwtemxBtDocod6sn6l0mRiH/sxA= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.eu; s=zohoarc; t=1555046877; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=CmT4bLxlDicH1ATOD4jrlDRuCmynJL2oiAkPuhYQUWo=; b=AaWE2U7IcU97j1+6+Qh+Nx6vDUXkWr+HMJkSelaKcvRBJn3h8mfM+9LkPl/qACUmd5f6DL4HoRhA/rz24+j2kzUcllZjDaUNYJ8UhW/gbZ3UXNFL7UPDqSTeJqZ1yVX6N0s1Fq0JdnbKnRVUK/bje7ObTIG+8BKIytncVmiFsjE= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.eu; dkim=pass header.i=zoho.eu; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=moasenwood@zoho.eu; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1555046877; s=admin; d=zoho.eu; i=moasenwood@zoho.eu; h=From:To:Message-ID:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; l=3073; bh=CmT4bLxlDicH1ATOD4jrlDRuCmynJL2oiAkPuhYQUWo=; b=H404LtT3vkMWsS9a+rWOc+SnD5lg8NPCo322J/TuuBmeQc7PPL3QDX/wCdTG20Am vkRahGoMnIN5ox32TsihOhm7Q0PsH+uLaoBOhMMfSQ9Tq2oTXHGu2Z8Nn/t2mgAieVv Zn1uLqUqUv3EvT/qk3U89Bg47VEeaijneiLTiGFU= Received: from raspberrypi.zoho.eu (c-b895225c.021-67-7570702.bbcust.telenor.se [92.34.149.184]) by mx.zoho.eu with SMTPS id 1555046876115235.06531616041775; Fri, 12 Apr 2019 07:27:56 +0200 (CEST) From: Emanuel Berg To: 35163@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: <86pnprg5d1.fsf@zoho.eu> Subject: Re: bug#35163: 25.1; `narrow-to-region' docstring no mention of args References: <868swoffpi.fsf@zoho.eu> <83ftqwb788.fsf@gnu.org> <86wok8dzi8.fsf@zoho.eu> <83bm1jbqgi.fsf@gnu.org> <86mul3bodv.fsf@zoho.eu> <83r2afa4od.fsf@gnu.org> <86zhp0urlr.fsf@zoho.eu> <87a7h0cf7p.fsf@tcd.ie> <86zhp0t26p.fsf@zoho.eu> <87h8b89e1e.fsf@tcd.ie> <86v9zntv8y.fsf@zoho.eu> <86o95fsdt8.fsf@zoho.eu> <86h8b7s5tq.fsf@zoho.eu> Mail-Copies-To: never Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 07:27:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Robert Pluim's message of "Thu, 11 Apr 2019 11:46:53 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35163 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Robert Pluim wrote: > Yes, that's true. In this case, I'd use > 'G p', ie ('gnus-topic-edit-parameters') to > see if you have any specific settings for > gmane.emacs.bugs. Nah, I don't setup groups individually but I can check it out anyway. ;;; Editing the group parameters for =E2=80=98gmane.emacs.bugs=E2=80=99= . ;; Type =E2=80=98C-c C-c=E2=80=99 after you=E2=80=99ve finished editing= . nil > If that doesn't turn up anything, then your > .gnus.el and/or .emacs is the next place to > look (probably in posting styles). I don't use that either. `gnus-posting-styles' is a variable defined in gnus-msg.el. Its value is nil > As a last resort, look in .newsrc.eld ... look for what? "gmane.emacs.bugs" appears twice, on line 7 [1] and 13. [2] PS. This reporting bug business sure was a lot of work! :) DS. [1] (setq gnus-newsrc-alist '(("nntp+nntp.aioe.org:alt.os.linux" 6 ((1 . 54560)) ((unexist) (tick 51892 51933 51941 51945)) "nntp:nntp.aioe.org") ("nntp+nntp.aioe.org:alt.test" 6 ((1 . 430642)) ((unexist)) "nntp:nntp.aioe.org") ("nntp+nntp.aioe.org:alt.tv.survivor" 3 ((1 . 54485)) ((unexist)) "nntp:nntp.aioe.org") ("nndraft:drafts" 1 nil nil (nndraft "") ((gnus-dummy (gnus-draft-mode)))) ("gmane.comp.shells.zsh.devel" 6 ((1 . 45428)) nil nil) ("gmane.comp.shells.zsh.user" 6 ((1 . 19229)) ((unexist))) ("gmane.comp.sysutils.docker.devel" 6 ((1 . 3322))) ("gmane.comp.sysutils.docker.user" 3 ((1 . 11789)) ((unexist))) ("gmane.comp.video.image-magick.user" 6 ((1 . 22290)) nil nil) ("gmane.discuss" 3 ((1 . 17550)) ((unexist))) ("gmane.emacs.bugs" 6 ((1 . 157439)) ((unexist))) ("gmane.emacs.devel" 6 ((1 . 235159)) ((unexist))) ("gmane.emacs.erc.general" 3 ((1 . 1469)) ((unexist))) ("gmane.emacs.gnus.general" 3 ((1 . 88499)) ((unexist))) ("gmane.emacs.gnus.user" 3 ((1 . 18951)) ((unexist))) ("gmane.emacs.help" 3 ((1 . 119917)) ((unexist) (tick (119843 . 119844)))) ("gmane.emacs.w3m" 3 ((1 . 10215)) ((unexist))) ("gmane.test" 6 ((1 . 8444)) ((unexist))) ("nnml:mail.misc" 3 ((1 . 8975)) ((unexist) (tick 8974)) "nnml:") ("nnml:mail.ml-ooa" 6 ((1 . 429)) ((unexist)) "nnml:") ("nnml:mail.rsmh-ooa" 6 ((1 . 165)) ((unexist)) "nnml:") ("nnml:mail.sent" 6 ((1 . 7902)) ((unexist) (tick 7902)) "nnml:"))) [2] (setq gnus-topic-alist '(("misc" "nntp+nntp.aioe.org:alt.os.linux" "nntp+nntp.aioe.org:alt.test" "nntp+nntp.aioe.org:alt.tv.survivor" "nndraft:drafts" "gmane.comp.shells.zsh.devel" "gmane.comp.shells.zsh.user" "gmane.comp.sysutils.docker.devel" "gmane.comp.sysutils.docker.user" "gmane.comp.video.image-magick.user" "gmane.discuss" "gmane.emacs.bugs" "gmane.emacs.devel" "gmane.emacs.erc.general" "gmane.emacs.gnus.general" "gmane.emacs.gnus.user" "gmane.emacs.help" "gmane.emacs.w3m" "gmane.test" "nntp+nntp.aioe.org:gnu.emacs.help" "nnml:mail.misc" "nnml:mail.ml-ooa" "nnml:mail.rsmh-ooa" "nnml:mail.sent") ("Gnus"))) --=20 underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 From unknown Sun Aug 17 22:08:22 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator