GNU bug report logs - #34976
[debbugs.el] debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus sets user options

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: [debbugs.el] debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus sets user options
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 15:32:23 +0000

X-Debbugs-Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>, Noam Postavsky <npostavs <at> gmail.com>

When I use Gnus as my MUA, I leave the user options
gnus-suppress-duplicates and gnus-save-duplicate-list at their default
value of nil, as I have not yet run into any issues with duplicate
messages.

After using debbugs.el, however, I noticed that the value of these two
user options had been changed, and a file called 'suppression' had
appeared under my gnus-directory.  I think this was caused by a change
to debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus[1].

[1]: Save list of read articles
  2015-12-26 01:17:29 +0100
  https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/elpa.git/commit/?id=f43413e5ad2817fb0ee055e358178924a6affe8b

I don't know what sort of issues gave rise to this change, but it would
be nice if debbugs.el could do its job without permanently changing the
value of user options from other packages.

Thanks,

-- 
Basil

In GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars)
 of 2019-03-24 built on thunk
Repository revision: dbd6490ad49b0f088d56cdd5f04178bdd62c806a
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12003000
System Description: Debian GNU/Linux buster/sid

Message #8 received at 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
Cc: lars ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, noam postavsky <npostavs <at> gmail.com>,
 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#34976: [debbugs.el] debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus sets
 user options
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:45:26 +0100

"Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie> writes:

> When I use Gnus as my MUA, I leave the user options
> gnus-suppress-duplicates and gnus-save-duplicate-list at their default
> value of nil, as I have not yet run into any issues with duplicate
> messages.
>
> After using debbugs.el, however, I noticed that the value of these two
> user options had been changed, and a file called 'suppression' had
> appeared under my gnus-directory.  I think this was caused by a change
> to debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus[1].
>
> [1]: Save list of read articles
>   2015-12-26 01:17:29 +0100
>   https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/elpa.git/commit/?id=f43413e5ad2817fb0ee055e358178924a6affe8b
>
> I don't know what sort of issues gave rise to this change, but it would
> be nice if debbugs.el could do its job without permanently changing the
> value of user options from other packages.

Looks like this is a preference Lars needs for his workflow. Lars, do
you still need this? Or shall we convert this setting into a user option
you would set, in order not to annoy other people?

> Thanks,

Best regards, Michael.

Message #11 received at 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>,
 noam postavsky <npostavs <at> gmail.com>, 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#34976: [debbugs.el] debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus sets
 user options
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 18:40:40 +0100

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:

> Looks like this is a preference Lars needs for his workflow. Lars, do
> you still need this? Or shall we convert this setting into a user option
> you would set, in order not to annoy other people?

I'm not quite sure I understand the last sentence there, but debbugs-gnu
shouldn't be setting those variables globally.  Perhaps buffer-local or
something? 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #14 received at 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>,
 noam postavsky <npostavs <at> gmail.com>, 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#34976: [debbugs.el] debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus sets
 user options
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 18:46:38 +0100

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> I'm not quite sure I understand the last sentence there, but debbugs-gnu
> shouldn't be setting those variables globally.  Perhaps buffer-local or
> something?

Well, that's OK for gnus-suppress-duplicates. But
gnus-save-duplicate-list seems to be taken into account only when you
leave Gnus. So I don't know how to set it locally (but this might be
simply because I don't know Gnus in detail).

That's why I thought we could add a user option debbugs-lars-workflow or
alike :-) If non-nil, the gnus-* variables would be set as of today.

Best regards, Michael.

Message #17 received at 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>,
 noam postavsky <npostavs <at> gmail.com>, 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#34976: [debbugs.el] debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus sets
 user options
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 18:48:40 +0100

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:

> That's why I thought we could add a user option debbugs-lars-workflow or
> alike :-) If non-nil, the gnus-* variables would be set as of today.

:-)

Sounds good.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #20 received at 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>,
 noam postavsky <npostavs <at> gmail.com>, 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#34976: [debbugs.el] debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus sets
 user options
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 18:14:55 +0000

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:
>
>> That's why I thought we could add a user option debbugs-lars-workflow or
>> alike :-) If non-nil, the gnus-* variables would be set as of today.
>
> :-)
>
> Sounds good.

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but how would setting this new
debbugs user option be different from setting the existing Gnus user
options?  In other words, why can't users who want a Lars-esque workflow
(Larsflow?) just set the gnus-* user options themselves?  Wouldn't the
proposed debbugs user option be redundant?

Thanks,

-- 
Basil

Message #23 received at 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, noam postavsky <npostavs <at> gmail.com>,
 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#34976: [debbugs.el] debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus sets
 user options
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 19:25:54 +0100

"Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie> writes:

Hi Basil,

> Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but how would setting this new
> debbugs user option be different from setting the existing Gnus user
> options?  In other words, why can't users who want a Lars-esque workflow
> (Larsflow?) just set the gnus-* user options themselves?  Wouldn't the
> proposed debbugs user option be redundant?

IIUC, Lars doesn't set these variables in his .emacs permanently. He
needs them *only* in case of debbug-gnu, when a gnus-ephemeral group is
created. The proposed variable does this for him.

Otherwise, he would need to wrap the debbugs-gnu commands by own ones.

> Thanks,

Best regards, Michael.

Message #26 received at 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, noam postavsky <npostavs <at> gmail.com>,
 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#34976: [debbugs.el] debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus sets
 user options
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 18:41:31 +0000

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:

> "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie> writes:
>
>> Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but how would setting this new
>> debbugs user option be different from setting the existing Gnus user
>> options?  In other words, why can't users who want a Lars-esque workflow
>> (Larsflow?) just set the gnus-* user options themselves?  Wouldn't the
>> proposed debbugs user option be redundant?
>
> IIUC, Lars doesn't set these variables in his .emacs permanently. He
> needs them *only* in case of debbug-gnu, when a gnus-ephemeral group is
> created. The proposed variable does this for him.
>
> Otherwise, he would need to wrap the debbugs-gnu commands by own ones.

Thank you for clarifying.

I still don't see how the proposed user option would save Lars in that
case.  When Debbugs sets the gnus-* variables, these changes are not
isolated to Debbugs ephemeral groups, but affect Gnus globally.  One
would have to use different Emacs instances for each of Debbugs and Gnus
in order for these settings to not interfere with one another.  Right?

So, if one wants to suppress and persist duplicates in Debbugs but not
in Gnus, then either Gnus duplicate suppression has to become more
granular, or Debbugs has to implement its own duplicate suppression.

Or am I missing something?

-- 
Basil

Message #29 received at 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, noam postavsky <npostavs <at> gmail.com>,
 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#34976: [debbugs.el] debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus sets
 user options
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 19:55:12 +0100

"Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie> writes:

Hi Basil,

> I still don't see how the proposed user option would save Lars in that
> case.  When Debbugs sets the gnus-* variables, these changes are not
> isolated to Debbugs ephemeral groups, but affect Gnus globally.  One
> would have to use different Emacs instances for each of Debbugs and Gnus
> in order for these settings to not interfere with one another.  Right?

For gnus-suppress-duplicates you are right. I would change the global
setting into a local let-bind.

gnus-save-duplicate-list has effect only when Gnus is exited. I
understand it such a way, that Lars wants to save the list of such
duplicate entries from the gnus-ephemeral group created by
debbugs. Using Gnus outside debbugs doesn't need this setting. So it
makes sense to set gnus-save-duplicate-list globally, for Lars.

Best regards, Michael.

Message #34 received at 34976-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>,
 noam postavsky <npostavs <at> gmail.com>, 34976-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#34976: [debbugs.el] debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus sets
 user options
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 16:56:50 +0100

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:
>
>> That's why I thought we could add a user option debbugs-lars-workflow or
>> alike :-) If non-nil, the gnus-* variables would be set as of today.
>
> :-)
>
> Sounds good.

I've fixed it this way. Lars, you shall set debbugs-gnu-lars-workflow to
a non-nil value.

Closing the bug.

Best regards, Michael.

Message #37 received at 34976-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>,
 noam postavsky <npostavs <at> gmail.com>, 34976-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#34976: [debbugs.el] debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus sets
 user options
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 17:16:29 +0100

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:

> I've fixed it this way. Lars, you shall set debbugs-gnu-lars-workflow to
> a non-nil value.

Perhaps change the name to something a bit more generic?  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #40 received at 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>,
 noam postavsky <npostavs <at> gmail.com>, 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#34976: [debbugs.el] debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus sets
 user options
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 17:21:53 +0100

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

>> I've fixed it this way. Lars, you shall set debbugs-gnu-lars-workflow to
>> a non-nil value.
>
> Perhaps change the name to something a bit more generic?  :-)

I've thought about, but I'm bad in finding names. So I let it to you.

Best regards, Michael.

Message #43 received at 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, noam postavsky <npostavs <at> gmail.com>,
 34976 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#34976: [debbugs.el] debbugs-read-emacs-bug-with-gnus sets
 user options
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 03:56:32 +0000

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:

> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:
>
>> Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:
>>
>>> That's why I thought we could add a user option debbugs-lars-workflow or
>>> alike :-) If non-nil, the gnus-* variables would be set as of today.
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Sounds good.
>
> I've fixed it this way. Lars, you shall set debbugs-gnu-lars-workflow to
> a non-nil value.
>
> Closing the bug.

Thanks!

-- 
Basil

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