From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 07 20:27:39 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2019 01:27:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35706 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h24IU-0001cu-VG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 20:27:39 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37955) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h24IS-0001cd-6h for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 20:27:36 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:42326) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h24IM-0001tC-1T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 20:27:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52334) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h24IL-0000aN-75 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 20:27:29 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h24IK-0001sJ-2l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 20:27:29 -0500 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:48882) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h24IH-0001mb-MX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 20:27:26 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x281IwKq018344 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2019 01:27:17 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=vLC5fj+OMMkKiBd0hYCVpc4fwL5xvsyu95RaDM08lI4=; b=ABIHi2rR/qeVsNNVYefUDedQVR0XD5uvHt/mnaYQkLWixVeRoLFEfFTNUeM/XvEvz4+y kEXKDBuzRf1ouP9L7mzyOfYAVNGq6uJ8r04xqdhI46JtfiJS00kVYlTLKDs0I9HyxaDP Ax41bUPEJiwmqE8q6RMsqibkuYXHq0M1ir9TzmIjUavspfKF0pUNnJmrfHbQNHXh5KdB rK44ziqb1wA8tsojGuXCkdDDW+pESH50sngnVICg0dzGPpivNk8kH9mNZkh4G4xeuhSP EmIEJR2+pFY+A4uV9Y3DTMGVgCWER4Pf12JmAItOYWsw4rE03a7oeiKyTvV/Bhm8BeVj mg== Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2qyfbep070-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 01:27:17 +0000 Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x281RFtZ014110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2019 01:27:16 GMT Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x281RE8m017613 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2019 01:27:15 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <247b0874-cbb1-40e1-996f-5f931c142616@default> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 17:27:14 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 26.1; Doc of pseudofunction key `' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4810.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9188 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1903080008 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.79 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) See https://emacs.stackexchange.com/a/48221/105. There is apparently a function key and a `timeout' function-key event? Please consider documenting this in the Elisp manual. In GNU Emacs 26.1 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2018-05-30 Repository revision: 07f8f9bc5a51f5aa94eb099f3e15fbe0c20ea1ea Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.17134 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 07 20:29:54 2019 Received: (at 34784) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2019 01:29:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35718 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h24Kf-0001hd-Nv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 20:29:53 -0500 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:53068) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h24Kd-0001hM-Lv for 34784@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 20:29:52 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x281SZTc188500 for <34784@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 8 Mar 2019 01:29:46 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=H+aIMyqtqLmS1ouuGyJzGzIrwGPFkTrZE5rGIwx86c8=; b=J/2/x6twectgaSUBegdzedLr5ZdXbib0UmGPu6uP31AxUfhpMY3Gfzoedidp+Q3jBaSN pxfz6rhekTGvgh6GTzx+fwLH+Db9tciHfO0KpI7KTcjoz9YSoTV5n/VnaDMDAsiA7QpI mKLqBpMuNAiHjHBYKNaBKh+dRl5ldv41PxhjNJJ3Pw5EU6zvO4xSTypybnziw826gfHR UGF7LzfyKOlc7ANRWDe2X5bJsCQ2/N0puhRwKw7XPgQFUSZkEelFREeUTjqYakEbmljh au7H+DB6icBT78jlLfepn7lJKXkslwIjRBkEmGWDyLaAZ6OABCCIf/cOjlN+FXq0NOcx hQ== Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2qyh8uns8b-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for <34784@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 01:29:45 +0000 Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x281Tj70018359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for <34784@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 8 Mar 2019 01:29:45 GMT Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x281Tj2f018004 for <34784@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 8 Mar 2019 01:29:45 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <45455b7d-fedd-462f-81e5-2071ae7fafcd@default> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 17:29:44 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: 34784@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#34784: 26.1; Doc of pseudofunction key `' References: <247b0874-cbb1-40e1-996f-5f931c142616@default> In-Reply-To: <247b0874-cbb1-40e1-996f-5f931c142616@default> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4810.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9188 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=13 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=646 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1903080009 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34784 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) I meant to use "function key", not "pseudofunction key" in the Bug title. = Forgot to correct that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 08 08:34:17 2019 Received: (at 34784) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2019 13:34:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35947 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2Fdh-0006xm-9m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 08:34:17 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55170) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2Fde-0006xT-RH; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 08:34:15 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38632) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h2FdX-0005Lt-Cb; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 08:34:07 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1187 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1h2FdW-00060v-Fx; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 08:34:07 -0500 Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2019 15:33:47 +0200 Message-Id: <83imwta3t0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <247b0874-cbb1-40e1-996f-5f931c142616@default> (message from Drew Adams on Thu, 7 Mar 2019 17:27:14 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#34784: 26.1; Doc of pseudofunction key `' References: <247b0874-cbb1-40e1-996f-5f931c142616@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34784 Cc: 34784@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 34784 notabug thanks > Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 17:27:14 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > > See https://emacs.stackexchange.com/a/48221/105. > > There is apparently a function key and a `timeout' > function-key event? There's no timeout function key, it's an event that CUA invented, a symbol, that's all. See cua-base.el. Any Lisp program can invent events of its liking and then inject those events and bind commands to them. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 08 11:52:57 2019 Received: (at 34784) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2019 16:52:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36599 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2Ijw-0005oD-VW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 11:52:57 -0500 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:35444) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2Ijv-0005nz-EA for 34784@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 11:52:56 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x28Gmo5W128322; Fri, 8 Mar 2019 16:52:49 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=+Mtg9CIgAhoUp3K84dfLv8RlZVe9Tjw5AjAR1S/zAbM=; b=Uh3kfyBlzqMUjvLUvJnOvvS+CmQu0Kp16jKaVsI0CgOkc1SNFYO4geZwfiicczfkFLsE jPReGHti3xyq5H41u2psQ3eBVPe3Wt3hm07J4RPRtaS2UFpOE8rclrf//oYZKKHEl0TU HOMga5FWp2EWCtJglPjvadb7CfMRqX9x8E+PlpG1Jee0H7L6GoFl21V8D5KwxnvU/YxF YO2QQDt7AGUDkRheTA+Np0khY1pjGE/21DhqyZU7GYBNZE1vUdoA0wgADRQ6rWAXLPLl h09rz6Gbk1muyYmas9uoTv7WOheoTqtjuUxRDyplxoxx57WT4Yo+Sno/avLW74N+zoAg Dw== Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2qyh8usbky-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 08 Mar 2019 16:52:49 +0000 Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x28Gqmsr000362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 8 Mar 2019 16:52:48 GMT Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x28GqlcF016988; Fri, 8 Mar 2019 16:52:48 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 08:52:46 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#34784: 26.1; Doc of pseudofunction key `' References: <247b0874-cbb1-40e1-996f-5f931c142616@default> <83imwta3t0.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83imwta3t0.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4810.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9189 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1903080117 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34784 Cc: 34784@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > tags 34784 notabug > thanks >=20 > > There is apparently a function key and a `timeout' > > function-key event? >=20 > There's no timeout function key, it's an event that CUA invented, a > symbol, that's all. See cua-base.el. Any Lisp program can invent > events of its liking and then inject those events and bind commands to > them. I thought that might be the case. But according to how the Elisp manual talks about function keys, "fake function keys", and events this _is_ a function key: one that corresponds to the `timeout' "event that CUA invented". It's not a function key that exists or is used outside CUA, perhaps (that I wasn't sure about), but it is a function key, at least in terms of how the manual talks about such things. Anyway, back to the point of this bug report: How is a user to know this info about `', without digging into the code? The doc speaks of "_fake_ function keys" for use in menu items (only). But the doc really doesn't guide users when it comes to things like this. Yes, it talks, in the doc about events, about function-key events, saying that the event is represented by the function-key symbol. But I don't see where the doc describes the kind of thing that is happening with `C-c '. And I don't see how a user would find out what that function key (and it apparently is a function key and not a fake function key) does, without digging into the CUA code. Maybe CUA needs, itself, to provide some help/doc for users about this? Or maybe Emacs can provide some general mechanism for users to discover what such an event does/means? Keys in a key sequence that we present to a user should be clear - including function keys. We document those that are common. We don't document `'. At least CUA should document it, I think. There should be some way for a user to find out more about it, when `C-c C-h' shows it. How does a user type/use a key sequence such as `C-c '? How does a user find that out? Some user help is missing here. You may have a different/better idea of what is missing and where it belongs, but don't you agree that something is missing in terms of user help here? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 08 12:02:57 2019 Received: (at 34784) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2019 17:02:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36607 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2Itc-000659-Be for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 12:02:57 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47867) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2Ita-00064u-Aa for 34784@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 12:02:54 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42385) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h2ItT-00044f-Ii; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 12:02:48 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2761 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1h2ItS-0001IM-7A; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 12:02:47 -0500 Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2019 19:02:31 +0200 Message-Id: <838sxp9u54.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 8 Mar 2019 08:52:46 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#34784: 26.1; Doc of pseudofunction key `' References: <247b0874-cbb1-40e1-996f-5f931c142616@default> <83imwta3t0.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34784 Cc: 34784@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 08:52:46 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 34784@debbugs.gnu.org > > Anyway, back to the point of this bug report: How > is a user to know this info about `', > without digging into the code? Why should they? This is an internal matter between CUA and itself, a detail of its implementation. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 08 12:20:35 2019 Received: (at 34784) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2019 17:20:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36623 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2JAh-0006Xt-KH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 12:20:35 -0500 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:38560) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2JAf-0006Xb-NQ for 34784@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 12:20:34 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x28HBw3e148497; Fri, 8 Mar 2019 17:20:27 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=Dn1+kl5sCVeajTdhVZQUSDTq4qHIQW3FVDiB7pAI+iA=; b=I4k00ya0E5fJho3i6g3v/8hwnScYPm874r9Ufux8oRkqompBDpe0kOG3ugwe3YM41CFg WEq/wChXo/Q11WJ3X45tRKN7xDOlXtx2svn/+CdFGJ6ozk7xzwul74IU29zQWXJQ7n2V ryvKc0Z50QRENDoqplq8on/WUf/F68sj8SCJ5PwIOaqgblGn7r6AY0sGU3S1bTnOly0J ZAUsUwb/hE3hfrwB2pyd662WUuOkeXcfKiGSUUSTj4i9f8V6lgEkMdNU7lEYR10Wnu16 BXSpHxyygoNk2MhnoefnYqnrzT2qva+llMzYbAVUkQxh5RgNnEtDu75j/rbMUohjFuoY /g== Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2qyjfs1cj9-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 08 Mar 2019 17:20:27 +0000 Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x28HKLIt019932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 8 Mar 2019 17:20:21 GMT Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x28HKKQx032271; Fri, 8 Mar 2019 17:20:21 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 09:20:19 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#34784: 26.1; Doc of pseudofunction key `' References: <<247b0874-cbb1-40e1-996f-5f931c142616@default>> <<83imwta3t0.fsf@gnu.org>> <> <<838sxp9u54.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<838sxp9u54.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4810.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9189 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=777 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1903080120 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34784 Cc: 34784@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Anyway, back to the point of this bug report: How > > is a user to know this info about `', > > without digging into the code? >=20 > Why should they? This is an internal matter between CUA and itself, a > detail of its implementation. Huh? Why shouldn't they? If a user sees this help: key binding --- ------- C-c copy-region-as-kill and s?he wants to know how to invoke `copy-region-as-kill' starting with prefix `C-c', where is s?he supposed to turn for that info? If this were "an internal matter between CUA and itself" then `C-c C-h' wouldn't (and shouldn't) show it to users. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 08 13:52:06 2019 Received: (at 34784) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2019 18:52:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36646 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2KbG-0000j1-BD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 13:52:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40737) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2KbD-0000iQ-TB for 34784@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 13:52:04 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:44723) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h2Kb7-00030j-T9; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 13:51:58 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1527 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1h2Kb7-0006dK-9E; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 13:51:57 -0500 Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2019 20:51:41 +0200 Message-Id: <837ed99p36.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 8 Mar 2019 09:20:19 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#34784: 26.1; Doc of pseudofunction key `' References: <<247b0874-cbb1-40e1-996f-5f931c142616@default>> <<83imwta3t0.fsf@gnu.org>> <> <<838sxp9u54.fsf@gnu.org>> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34784 Cc: 34784@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 09:20:19 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 34784@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Anyway, back to the point of this bug report: How > > > is a user to know this info about `', > > > without digging into the code? > > > > Why should they? This is an internal matter between CUA and itself, a > > detail of its implementation. > > Huh? Why shouldn't they? Because it's an implementation detail. > If a user sees this help: > > key binding > --- ------- > C-c copy-region-as-kill > > and s?he wants to know how to invoke > `copy-region-as-kill' starting with prefix `C-c', > where is s?he supposed to turn for that info? To the source code, of course. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 08 14:39:42 2019 Received: (at 34784) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2019 19:39:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36697 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2LLI-000263-6C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 14:39:42 -0500 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:54972) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2LLG-00025j-1Z for 34784@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 14:39:39 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x28JdEFt076191; Fri, 8 Mar 2019 19:39:31 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=I+O1+HWuwSNOztXjIZQC3l+AsVQCYZVDskc5UAeuN90=; b=B6oHW7o6BTaIY/4F8Y/AOQ/97eefxiDcGEw8XEOVsybCPzXkBqWx2e2DbAp1LJwYlqFe iJcpYRv2AcWtHAb6ie5Cv0t1z10rB4ADQKsJ/Mh3nHWe1V7rqhulfzG7XYwWFB+uYlla 5ScXaygh+5h7glN7guGCW0+zksgCzFYN5LLScRDKs9ThCT+CsjOgZNrnnl/rFLvk6hYM aCfxTnHyiMozBI1QyVbIgR9SU0hLs8r/yAdCCTBw1otPs7AuvP5iCEipS1W10/0nKYmL Kh+T0XmL/KqUibV6vZ8lPm/ApOGEO9q5KV2sT3AtB5DYnlQjQvgGcT/pX13QeIfWw/+w ZA== Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2qyjfs21jk-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 08 Mar 2019 19:39:31 +0000 Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x28JdVwn021035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 8 Mar 2019 19:39:31 GMT Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x28JdU7T013817; Fri, 8 Mar 2019 19:39:31 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3f5adb9a-4892-4d96-9bb4-1a9109007da8@default> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:39:29 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#34784: 26.1; Doc of pseudofunction key `' References: <<<247b0874-cbb1-40e1-996f-5f931c142616@default>>> <<<83imwta3t0.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<>> <<<838sxp9u54.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<837ed99p36.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<837ed99p36.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4810.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9189 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1903080137 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34784 Cc: 34784@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > > Anyway, back to the point of this bug report: How > > > > is a user to know this info about `', > > > > without digging into the code? > > > > > > Why should they? This is an internal matter between CUA and itself, = a > > > detail of its implementation. > > > > Huh? Why shouldn't they? >=20 > Because it's an implementation detail. How so - what makes you think that? > > If a user sees this help: > > > > key binding > > --- ------- > > C-c copy-region-as-kill > > > > and s?he wants to know how to invoke > > `copy-region-as-kill' starting with prefix `C-c', > > where is s?he supposed to turn for that info? >=20 > To the source code, of course. To understand an external, user-visible, external, key description from `C-h' a user needs to dig into the source code? That's a sorry stance for Emacs help to take, I think. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 08 14:49:05 2019 Received: (at 34784) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2019 19:49:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36719 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2LUP-0002NJ-1G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 14:49:05 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52692) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2LUN-0002MV-6T for 34784@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 14:49:03 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45537) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h2LUH-00061s-2d; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 14:48:57 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1033 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1h2LUF-0002MX-6Z; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 14:48:56 -0500 Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2019 21:48:39 +0200 Message-Id: <8336nx9mg8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <3f5adb9a-4892-4d96-9bb4-1a9109007da8@default> (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:39:29 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#34784: 26.1; Doc of pseudofunction key `' References: <<<247b0874-cbb1-40e1-996f-5f931c142616@default>>> <<<83imwta3t0.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<>> <<<838sxp9u54.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<837ed99p36.fsf@gnu.org>> <3f5adb9a-4892-4d96-9bb4-1a9109007da8@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34784 Cc: 34784@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:39:29 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 34784@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > > > Anyway, back to the point of this bug report: How > > > > > is a user to know this info about `', > > > > > without digging into the code? > > > > > > > > Why should they? This is an internal matter between CUA and itself, a > > > > detail of its implementation. > > > > > > Huh? Why shouldn't they? > > > > Because it's an implementation detail. > > How so - what makes you think that? Because I've read the code. > > > and s?he wants to know how to invoke > > > `copy-region-as-kill' starting with prefix `C-c', > > > where is s?he supposed to turn for that info? > > > > To the source code, of course. > > To understand an external, user-visible, external, key > description from `C-h' a user needs to dig into the > source code? That's a sorry stance for Emacs help to > take, I think. No, it's just a (mildly unfortunate) consequence of the fact that internal details are visible in user-level commands. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 24 15:22:27 2020 Received: (at 34784-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Aug 2020 19:22:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59308 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAI2x-0007vU-Df for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 15:22:27 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f172.google.com ([209.85.219.172]:41293) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAI2t-0007vB-2z for 34784-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 15:22:22 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f172.google.com with SMTP id s195so5781778ybc.8 for <34784-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 12:22:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5BmlbGeeuBmpznGzBP983CzpDHWgrQ7V3IFRHKkWsZg=; b=ApQv22EtctzTDyHY6FV9iiKKaQ3N/16WG639tagRi7dwlECGS+w/G+XSUlln+ss7Ns +JoqbRz+3MEVUKtZxfQKqkJtt3/MwiO3Uf8iPhnicMyOYqyKiZhhTsQvcNuJjSBQQQt+ eyymonUxIixoEAzXk7KImgMFnCYyw67+87fUldqRSumveJ48D6fPkmoKwmeFYzEiNcsE YhfaRA/kYqDf+ZhR+2dDUJod41Akr3EjZJaHQPAtuE/FpgeoV5+0wQ+/KdOjgn6eDuLr t1ssC1o4fsXQtcudHvHLeOmiW+V7Oo+pS+I0mbHbXznKHNfDRZ41IPtR3JW0hKnDibz5 iIoQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530jT8bYDjKIh1dDyL0ty79dviIKIoI6nA+alKHBQZ90LRhk5Way sU3EA62E1hgk2dW5g2BCzMFoNzCi5A10Ozf8Lyg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwwRNQKq8T3wL+ejrGjWh6smzqoIonN6Q7YkfNROHSZeiDVlC8LI2bxYtfFsHPIwW7dch+cOkubYLY7lHxofPc= X-Received: by 2002:a5b:508:: with SMTP id o8mr10528529ybp.43.1598296933701; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 12:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 12:22:13 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83imwta3t0.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 08 Mar 2019 15:33:47 +0200") References: <247b0874-cbb1-40e1-996f-5f931c142616@default> <83imwta3t0.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 12:22:13 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#34784: 26.1; Doc of pseudofunction key `' To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34784-done Cc: 34784-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > tags 34784 notabug > thanks > >> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 17:27:14 -0800 (PST) >> From: Drew Adams >> >> See https://emacs.stackexchange.com/a/48221/105. >> >> There is apparently a function key and a `timeout' >> function-key event? > > There's no timeout function key, it's an event that CUA invented, a > symbol, that's all. See cua-base.el. Any Lisp program can invent > events of its liking and then inject those events and bind commands to > them. This is not considered a bug, so I'm closing this bug report. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Sat Sep 13 02:52:51 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 11:24:11 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator