From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 03 22:27:34 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Mar 2019 03:27:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58867 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h0eGL-00018k-Br for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2019 22:27:34 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52873) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h0eGJ-00018W-BQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2019 22:27:31 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:33946) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h0eGE-0008TC-71 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2019 22:27:26 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39018) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h0eGD-0008ON-Dw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2019 22:27:26 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42193) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h0eGD-0008RZ-A5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2019 22:27:25 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1h0eGD-0007KE-3z; Sun, 03 Mar 2019 22:27:25 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: epa-insert-keys Message-Id: Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2019 22:27:25 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] In the buffer made by epa-insert-keys, the first character in each line gives some status information about the key. I don't know what the characters mean, most of them. How about putting that info into the doc string of epa-insert-keys and maybe also in the first line of that buffer? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 05 11:08:42 2019 Received: (at 34726) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Mar 2019 16:08:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33362 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h1CcU-0006mi-6g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:08:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57872) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h1CcS-0006mU-6d for 34726@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:08:40 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52074) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h1CcA-0007lh-Ni for 34726@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:08:25 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2679 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1h1Cc4-0005ZT-HS; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:08:16 -0500 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 18:08:15 +0200 Message-Id: <83zhq9cnio.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: rms@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Richard Stallman on Sun, 03 Mar 2019 22:27:25 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#34726: epa-insert-keys References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34726 Cc: 34726@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2019 22:27:25 -0500 > > In the buffer made by epa-insert-keys, the first character > in each line gives some status information about the key. > I don't know what the characters mean, most of them. > > How about putting that info into the doc string of epa-insert-keys and > maybe also in the first line of that buffer? AFAIU, that text is generated by GnuPG the program, so the interpretation of those one-letter flags should be in the GPG manual? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 05 21:15:15 2019 Received: (at 34726) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Mar 2019 02:15:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33643 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h1M5T-00010F-1N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 21:15:15 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55990) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h1M5R-0000zz-73 for 34726@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 21:15:13 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33675) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h1M5L-0007Pt-Cc for 34726@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 21:15:07 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1h1M5J-00060x-Tr; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 21:15:05 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <83zhq9cnio.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Tue, 05 Mar 2019 18:08:15 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#34726: epa-insert-keys References: <83zhq9cnio.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 21:15:05 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34726 Cc: 34726@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > AFAIU, that text is generated by GnuPG the program, so the > interpretation of those one-letter flags should be in the GPG manual? That is not conveniently helpful for Emacs users. I think the buffer, or the doc string, should explain these lettsrs. There could also be a reference to the right place in the GPG manual. Could someone please take care of this? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 06 05:27:34 2019 Received: (at 34726) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Mar 2019 10:27:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33762 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h1Tlu-0006vw-0J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 05:27:34 -0500 Received: from mail-wm1-f41.google.com ([209.85.128.41]:52662) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h1Tls-0006vj-0L for 34726@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 05:27:32 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-f41.google.com with SMTP id f65so5349155wma.2 for <34726@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 02:27:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-copies-to:gmane-reply-to-list :date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=uVFXpuv9cdvCAI7ih3J6kTpXHsQT0ncDBI/fvrcGzdc=; b=a9yMRKW18i81n2C+yX6OFE9MgGLf+RdI4ZWAnEih4b1x/5g+oFMA379PUUFvTbkjPP CsZ5YUkOndQlMQTcUDFGsGhGPlgoGbFdqMc7n/EX2PolOouaE8+sgiSMM5uN5FcYujnr OI3P6FdG0kgkupL0TA5/rX2YcQku18karTz1q9wnZ3g83iZTRUSNBZ/dSWmBFeoSonmm A1aAbbFdny9LZoLKm3pIC8r9UjXA53Na+d7/B4+MBZqqy4O7Tv1tDT9DvFWeK2+JsAb/ xpMKY4G2Cn91TPe6igR1DFHZ+3xwQZdY4jvsve7eE9OS04fD77Ccbas43cVsJPA3C8/j vI8Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-copies-to :gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=uVFXpuv9cdvCAI7ih3J6kTpXHsQT0ncDBI/fvrcGzdc=; b=g921v6BedUtfx7KuYGBvkUp7T3fstdbsKixvCA5/ZNBe0XrVcSI+i0+owg/c05vQDl VsR1Qa4Ab2+kXeG9813fm8+5P6y2NVTwlK6qPHcQ0LiaUfJkEjKm+N7v/oRbXzqTejbu FgnYpbEtjrjmCL79g2GKzLBkqHmNVzjZvJ1A5uHe6OJPLWexApDqfFn42YflwL8ZHZeH 93LPoPXLFQi8f9lNOBBKwPWVIOZcN7Sl3GEvt/LkM75aewrw+5WQtQgzlIauDtMdPFfM iJ0jkweAHyYVVz987Jt/piVlXAXKunTR/2K72Jw/5v+sw+4Nneyv9TCyiV/uocbC1o72 FPmQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX/3S/R9OYUzWZotYK/fcMtap1nCFGylvcErF4taFBTnhFI1AM7 Unj3KrPVRJ+2qc/k0a9AIZ2Zeluv X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyAOhSWpOER+dwvrmOSWrBYkqzeexayPhvsChQJdt3t7PY6aS7U+fQhKvQbDBmnKYAhn2nbTg== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:be09:: with SMTP id o9mr1878943wmf.3.1551868045679; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 02:27:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rpluim-mac ([149.5.228.1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k6sm1757318wrq.82.2019.03.06.02.27.24 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 06 Mar 2019 02:27:24 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Pluim To: Richard Stallman Subject: Re: bug#34726: epa-insert-keys References: <83zhq9cnio.fsf@gnu.org> X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes Mail-Copies-To: never Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2019 11:27:23 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Tue, 05 Mar 2019 21:15:05 -0500") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34726 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 34726@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Tue, 05 Mar 2019 21:15:05 -0500, Richard Stallman said: rms> That is not conveniently helpful for Emacs users. I think rms> the buffer, or the doc string, should explain these lettsrs. rms> There could also be a reference to the right place in the GPG rms> manual. The relevant section of the GPG manual says: TRUST VALUES Trust values are used to indicate ownertrust and validity of keys and user IDs. They are displayed with letters or strings: - unknown No ownertrust assigned / not yet calculated. e expired Trust calculation has failed; probably due to an expired key. q undefined, undef Not enough information for calculation. n never Never trust this key. m marginal Marginally trusted. f full Fully trusted. u ultimate Ultimately trusted. r revoked For validity only: the key or the user ID has been revoked. ? err The program encountered an unknown trust value. which is a bit too much for epa-insert-keys, I think. How about: diff --git a/lisp/epa.el b/lisp/epa.el index e442c12a7d..7cb15b5165 100644 --- a/lisp/epa.el +++ b/lisp/epa.el @@ -421,7 +421,9 @@ epa--list-keys ;;;###autoload (defun epa-list-keys (&optional name) - "List all keys matched with NAME from the public keyring." + "List all keys matched with NAME from the public keyring. + +See `epa-insert-keys' for a description of the format." (interactive (if current-prefix-arg (let ((name (read-string "Pattern: " @@ -433,7 +435,9 @@ epa-list-keys ;;;###autoload (defun epa-list-secret-keys (&optional name) - "List all keys matched with NAME from the private keyring." + "List all keys matched with NAME from the private keyring. + +See `epa-insert-keys' for a description of the format." (interactive (if current-prefix-arg (let ((name (read-string "Pattern: " @@ -1308,7 +1312,12 @@ epa-export-keys ;;;###autoload (defun epa-insert-keys (keys) - "Insert selected KEYS after the point." + "Insert selected KEYS after point. + +This will display a list of keys with their validity status, +keyid, and associated name. See 'TRUST VALUES' in the gpg +documentation for the meaning of the letters describing the +validity status." (interactive (list (epa-select-keys (epg-make-context epa-protocol) "Select keys to export. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 06 22:38:18 2019 Received: (at 34726) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2019 03:38:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34847 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h1jrN-0006gC-Nd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 22:38:18 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42799) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h1jrL-0006g0-KT for 34726@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 22:38:16 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:55442) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h1jrG-0005at-5q; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 22:38:10 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1h1jr8-0005XF-Eb; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 22:38:03 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Robert Pluim In-Reply-To: (message from Robert Pluim on Wed, 06 Mar 2019 11:27:23 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#34726: epa-insert-keys References: <83zhq9cnio.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2019 22:38:02 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34726 Cc: 34726@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] The relevant section of the GPG manual says: TRUST VALUES Trust values are used to indicate ownertrust and validity of keys and user IDs. They are displayed with letters or strings: - unknown No ownertrust assigned / not yet calculated. e expired Trust calculation has failed; probably due to an expired key. q undefined, undef Not enough information for calculation. n never Never trust this key. m marginal Marginally trusted. f full Fully trusted. u ultimate Ultimately trusted. r revoked For validity only: the key or the user ID has been revoked. ? err The program encountered an unknown trust value. Thanks for finding that. I would not have had an easy time finding it myself. > +This will display a list of keys with their validity status, > +keyid, and associated name. See 'TRUST VALUES' in the gpg > +documentation That is too vague to be helpful. It tells the reader to search for some other publication, and doesn't even say precisely what publication or what its name is -- let alone where to look. I don't think I could have got anywhere from it. I think we should include a cleaned-up and clarified version of this table in those two commands' doc strings. But we need to fill in some gaps. From that text, it is not clear what q means. Also, it is oriented towards answering the question "what does the trust calculation do with this key" rather than "what is the status of this key". GNU documentation should try to be _helpful_ and present material in terms of what the user wants to know. Attempting to convert the list above into practical meanings for a user, here's my draft for an improved table. e key has expired r Key has been revoked. How much trust to put in signatures of other keys by this one: n none m marginal trust f full trust (for instance, you signed this key) u ultimate trust [I don't entirely understand those. I do not understand GPG's trust facilities, I don't want to learn to understand them; what I really want to know is whether I signed that key. How can I tell that?] ? inconsistency in key ring trust data q some other strange case [What does that really mean? How does q differ from hyphen?] Can anyone clear up the unclear points? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 07 04:33:23 2019 Received: (at 34726) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2019 09:33:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34923 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h1pOz-0007VC-OX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 04:33:23 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-f51.google.com ([209.85.208.51]:43602) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h1pOx-0007Ux-Ms for 34726@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 04:33:20 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-f51.google.com with SMTP id m35so12827342ede.10 for <34726@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 01:33:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-copies-to:gmane-reply-to-list :date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=gOnjLH9xVBHxaBvVJpNO+3hpvZadbadOp8ds/xGNNaw=; b=ppnPFOM1i/pG+Xf1o6fqhtNDidU8fd6taeTHI5JR67SR7SAmfJiE58BeHQEbse8J55 LhV22XFCmsU9AzAd4qZtcah9DqJodcKCMRGsjWkjb2ENuJufXbUMOvQbCt+yFwJBY8HG 6oykVKDBY0CaAklZiBqjZ4OZCIDb0D6916LFx/YRKThXov6RXS8wweEKZLm3VKrojecT IEuRmyh9kNuZHdWE7zUw28fs9naY5T43gM9aQTmS8TtfNtjxbLkvpP9Z15YDs1//OlwU Itp8sOA4+BOecRCGN9p42eqF7utIam+W6ZO9l76m/5yS8ASey1LXT0ft+8/R0i2vPbxY h3QA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-copies-to :gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=gOnjLH9xVBHxaBvVJpNO+3hpvZadbadOp8ds/xGNNaw=; b=hzMnVFMHyour4vPCl0nHBSNlAJbubzaZrD3R4O4u9Rsc4ME2t9vWVqNt0WVazuEgMy pq0vmZ2fnVZEZYrqEI6rTbjrqW4gyydWPF+9etdryDsjoTkR7EB7mWLwdbNCD8Q/nThL CP3b/urfdjOBcTplfZxvTHRdmP6kZog79qUTAS1y3gABmhQQeyo0PRtzR6+ToCXN8IvC e9iHMC/dkr58WUfB/3OtETPd5FQo5llHwzyfGcnfafTipJbLW6djcayfJ3ilcrQHuX8B D77Q02qu0AkUphXiPdFeoQ6+CPaOJOJ+ONK6qij989WHo9dL0BlxSE/Lh2U9NLqR0LaK +8gg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV3NDk9mYH+IMhC1YSNXXTTMzur6br91UpFwmQwNjCrg08hwfkZ qXc073VKYpRxklJ9towq3pu1rBAz X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxMF/GjH5AaCo3vRebxTj9O+oUS6oZxszSE2UItKJTaEEuchVCa20letmV0PdXVvrbZzeSUmg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:f1d8:: with SMTP id gx24mr7075412ejb.227.1551951192114; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 01:33:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from rpluim-mac ([149.5.228.1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p47sm1164261eda.31.2019.03.07.01.33.10 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 07 Mar 2019 01:33:11 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Pluim To: Richard Stallman Subject: Re: bug#34726: epa-insert-keys References: <83zhq9cnio.fsf@gnu.org> X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes Mail-Copies-To: never Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 10:33:10 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 06 Mar 2019 22:38:02 -0500") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34726 Cc: 34726@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Wed, 06 Mar 2019 22:38:02 -0500, Richard Stallman sa= id: rms> Thanks for finding that. I would not have had an easy time rms> finding it myself. I had some trouble finding it myself. >> +This will display a list of keys with their validity status, >> +keyid, and associated name. See 'TRUST VALUES' in the gpg >> +documentation rms> That is too vague to be helpful. It tells the reader to rms> search for some other publication, and doesn't even say rms> precisely what publication or what its name is -- let alone rms> where to look. The gpg documentation can be a man page or an info manual, plus there are html and pdf version of the same documentation available from the gpg website. We could just point people at rms> I think we should include a cleaned-up and clarified version rms> of this table in those two commands' doc strings. That=CA=BCs not a path I=CA=BCd want to go down. The gpg documentation is l= ong and complex, because it=CA=BCs a complex program. Attempting to summarise it in a few docstrings will result in incomplete or possibly incorrect information, I=CA=BCd rather people read the original. Robert From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 07 23:15:12 2019 Received: (at 34726) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2019 04:15:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35765 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h26ue-00069v-BQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 23:15:12 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40832) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h26ua-00069b-RE for 34726@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 23:15:09 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48062) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h26uP-0006PE-Sv; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 23:14:59 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1h26uM-0006y1-Bj; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 23:14:54 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Robert Pluim In-Reply-To: (message from Robert Pluim on Thu, 07 Mar 2019 10:33:10 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#34726: epa-insert-keys References: <83zhq9cnio.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 23:14:54 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34726 Cc: 34726@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Thatʼs not a path Iʼd want to go down. The gpg documentation is long > and complex, because itʼs a complex program. Attempting to summarise > it in a few docstrings will result in incomplete or possibly incorrect > information, Iʼd rather people read the original. What in the "original" should I read? I looked at the GPG Info file which that text came from, as an Info file, but I see no further info there to understand what those letters actually mean. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 08 03:20:09 2019 Received: (at 34726) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2019 08:20:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35815 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2Ajh-0003cV-D7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 03:20:09 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39077) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2Ajg-0003cD-7g for 34726@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 03:20:08 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:50609) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h2Ajb-0000t3-3X; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 03:20:03 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1571 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1h2AjH-0007uw-7u; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 03:19:46 -0500 Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2019 10:19:25 +0200 Message-Id: <83zhq5aicy.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: rms@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Richard Stallman on Thu, 07 Mar 2019 23:14:54 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#34726: epa-insert-keys References: <83zhq9cnio.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34726 Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, 34726@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 23:14:54 -0500 > Cc: 34726@debbugs.gnu.org > > What in the "original" should I read? I looked at the GPG Info file > which that text came from, as an Info file, but I see no further info > there to understand what those letters actually mean. Doesn't that mean this particular part of the bug report should be sent to the GPG developers, asking them to clarify the GPG documentation? IMO, it's unreasonable to expect Emacs to rectify documentation problems of every program we happen to invoke. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 08 22:19:38 2019 Received: (at 34726) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Mar 2019 03:19:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36895 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2SWQ-0002pI-B0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 22:19:38 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34447) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h2SWO-0002p3-Ke for 34726@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 22:19:37 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52223) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h2SWJ-0004D7-52; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 22:19:31 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1h2SWI-0000ZQ-1u; Fri, 08 Mar 2019 22:19:30 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <83zhq5aicy.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Fri, 08 Mar 2019 10:19:25 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#34726: epa-insert-keys References: <83zhq9cnio.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhq5aicy.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2019 22:19:30 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34726 Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, 34726@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Doesn't that mean this particular part of the bug report should be > sent to the GPG developers, asking them to clarify the GPG > documentation? IMO, it's unreasonable to expect Emacs to rectify > documentation problems of every program we happen to invoke. Yes and no. Ideally they would make it clear in the GPG documentation, then we would make Emacs repeat that description or else make it easy to find that from Emacs. However, I don't know whether the GPG team includes people with those skills and time to work on this. I guess I will have to ask them. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 26 07:21:55 2020 Received: (at 34726) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Aug 2020 11:21:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37539 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAtV5-0006N3-04 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 07:21:55 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:54256) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAtV2-0006Ml-RH for 34726@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 07:21:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=UfdD4K3lswYwbj18yP8AjIRr2ZATuZm88/I0TU7pKU4=; b=dsKpJCrmSK15sjWeVWcecdrUCz ZxG4y3EPb9pFKhzKBANeOOdlv9m4TkNKaOhbQmVIGYoTiaC1QYHLtH9RzDXslFqi29PMmXVuqIpma 8CL3TvX6CkEN57Ds/D2ThU1KcPoA1I8JZLSrPp7iuGNuzURgblNg3O0F6O++s1+Qigys=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kAtUt-0004pZ-U3; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 13:21:46 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Richard Stallman , 34726@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#34726: epa-insert-keys References: <83zhq9cnio.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Alva Noto's _Xerrox Vol. 04_: "Xerrox Kirlian" Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 13:21:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Robert Pluim's message of "Thu, 07 Mar 2019 10:33:10 +0100") Message-ID: <87d03d1wl5.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Robert Pluim writes: > rms> I think we should include a cleaned-up and clarified version > rms> of this table in those two commands' doc strings. > > Thatʼs not a path Iʼd want to go down. The gpg documentation is long [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34726 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Robert Pluim writes: > rms> I think we should include a cleaned-up and clarified version > rms> of this table in those two commands' doc strings. > > That=CA=BCs not a path I=CA=BCd want to go down. The gpg documentation is= long > and complex, because it=CA=BCs a complex program. Attempting to summarise > it in a few docstrings will result in incomplete or possibly incorrect > information, I=CA=BCd rather people read the original. That's true, but epg already does an interpretation of those status characters and then fontifies the buffer based on them: (defvar epg-key-validity-alist '((?o . unknown) (?i . invalid) (?d . disabled) (?r . revoked) (?e . expired) (?- . none) (?q . undefined) (?n . never) (?m . marginal) (?f . full) (?u . ultimate))) To not then actually tell the users what we've interpreted the characters to means just seems odd. I've now changed this in Emacs 28 so that hovering over the character says what the validity is (i.e., the help-echo property). --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 26 07:22:03 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Aug 2020 11:22:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37543 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAtVD-0006Nr-Bi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 07:22:03 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:54270) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAtVC-0006NC-4U for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 07:22:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=GtYRqlrvqJJLDwEZ5kUr6Ne0r+AX8T6Lz6qeBgjxlzg=; b=Dz0lzMERRWU493lD+hJ/Z1us+O srBOJnA6g/uMRWxU8kh/IauVJFeUk90QfVvmNlpoYOFNJCCYDEytz4yqYwbN6pDrISYISq0aazXC6 x3je+4r4RgblyhaZ3opWIMsFk3l8pGr9M6MJPDwAn1WBdEzCNBI73U3+tEv6TQHbRFII=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kAtV4-0004pi-FT for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 13:21:56 +0200 Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 13:21:53 +0200 Message-Id: <87blix1wku.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #34726 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 34726 fixed close 34726 28.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 34726 fixed close 34726 28.1 quit From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:26:02 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. 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