From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 27 13:57:15 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2019 18:57:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54343 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gz4OJ-0007ut-BX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:57:15 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60654) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gz4OF-0007uX-Rf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:57:12 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:49954) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gz4O9-0006ww-FC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:57:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46791) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gz4O8-00007w-JD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:57:05 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gz4Nv-0006by-Qp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:56:57 -0500 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:41230) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gz4No-0006P4-VM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:56:46 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x1RImvTN166815 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 18:56:42 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=e/EslVHMGHmjAiclVLIKmjpsbmF7LQU+8Hdklzq3Ja4=; b=dfUbb8X5Yvj9Mot/B9ZYKl3jdPp6Rv4suXktSpqXg1IEAyzTUBFKsEqUR5oN6iYFbViW 7sE6JIM4FAkpWvCF0WUceAXUmYHmiaPreD6aGJfsWFBjgPxOzx1daXYGeZwnZy+IwTrr vEgfbb6ltnD+pfIzG7cppEoUEarNzaHmz1UIM2XqIao/MNLblkoZpTD2Y1Qh57Mw1iCb WkN4/Hd7bB4b4rz7P4BtJOrv8DY40KTBqidVtP/9txJd6NeKzDYzgCyh4It5JcYfrqH/ S1D8t0Vin0TBNfvVkjEyFrfFtHn4rhBZBrVtCeL21lngJ8crtDAO9yPxHjS4yDM35VsZ 6g== Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2qtwkucrjn-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 18:56:42 +0000 Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x1RIuanG027392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 18:56:36 GMT Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x1RIuaxa009714 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 18:56:36 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 10:56:35 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 26.1; (elisp) `Minor Mode Conventions' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4810.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9180 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=1 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=908 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1902270127 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.86 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) At two places this node refers to the conventions for major modes, but there is no link to the doc about major-mode conventions. Please add a link where one or the other reference is made. In GNU Emacs 26.1 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2018-05-30 Repository revision: 07f8f9bc5a51f5aa94eb099f3e15fbe0c20ea1ea Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.17134 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 27 14:09:42 2019 Received: (at 34678) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2019 19:09:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54358 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gz4aL-0008PA-UJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:09:42 -0500 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:46642) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gz4aK-0008Or-TP for 34678@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:09:41 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x1RJ9ZSb185105 for <34678@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 19:09:35 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=nKzQN1ZexaPCGJF5MLhwfvkSprz8xztrwIPIiDI7CvM=; b=QiV6uLZMIhBgC7dDvm2L7syvRfL9zYkoFFuDUu3fkySe645If+ckJlGwyWfmM+f/7FmM wRTFOLvkXQtHL9R4Nc1vCkqI5gheJ4bA7ND1L2+BNW5H79tcwxCuz/tdwoCU8KhVcdhe U3D7HUPkJzKw89EwLBtCvFOM1UF6F2rIbiuyDqzabwbF1UXmgloKacloQ/5pZNP/ZpVY GDqJ13LFuoo7u4Nrq8lLhXywLfPNkiVthizcJ23dK3Kip2obKhCVVM7QfXr/q/t3Pggg lvuTcCoWNmcKO4Tjjt2DMHlPodi98iqyAbxkP5rZVI2O0eUjozjlbsQz4NmfNFUAm82T PQ== Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2qtuped0kr-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for <34678@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 19:09:34 +0000 Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x1RJ9TWa000806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for <34678@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 19:09:29 GMT Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x1RJ9Sqb002559 for <34678@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 19:09:28 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <54960e92-89bb-40b1-ba82-1dbd7ff21b03@default> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 11:09:27 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: 34678@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#34678: 26.1; (elisp) `Minor Mode Conventions' References: In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4810.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9180 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=13 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=754 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1902270129 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34678 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) It also wouldn't hurt to add a reference to node `Minor Mode Conventions' from node `Major Mode Conventions'. Perhaps add a mention in node `Major Mode Conventions' similar to this one in (elisp) `Minor Mode Conventions': In addition, several major mode conventions apply to minor modes as well: those regarding the names of global symbols, the use of a hook at the end of the initialization function, and the use of keymaps and other tables. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 27 14:19:00 2019 Received: (at 34678) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2019 19:19:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54371 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gz4jM-0000KX-HU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:19:00 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37080) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gz4jK-0000KD-OB for 34678@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:18:59 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54208) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gz4jD-0005fz-NJ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:18:53 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4791 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gz4jC-0001G8-EJ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:18:51 -0500 Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 21:18:42 +0200 Message-Id: <83r2btjazx.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <54960e92-89bb-40b1-ba82-1dbd7ff21b03@default> (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 27 Feb 2019 11:09:27 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#34678: 26.1; (elisp) `Minor Mode Conventions' References: <54960e92-89bb-40b1-ba82-1dbd7ff21b03@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34678 Cc: 34678@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 11:09:27 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > > It also wouldn't hurt to add a reference to node > `Minor Mode Conventions' from node `Major Mode > Conventions'. > > Perhaps add a mention in node `Major Mode Conventions' > similar to this one in (elisp) `Minor Mode Conventions': > > In addition, several major mode conventions > apply to minor modes as well: those regarding > the names of global symbols, the use of a hook > at the end of the initialization function, and > the use of keymaps and other tables. I don't see why: cross-references don't have to be symmetrical. We refer to another node for details of something mentioned in passage, but that other node doesn't have to provide a cross-reference back. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 27 14:22:51 2019 Received: (at 34678) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2019 19:22:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54378 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gz4n5-0000UF-4J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:22:51 -0500 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:47928) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gz4n3-0000Tu-7s for 34678@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:22:49 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x1RJMhrX001246; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 19:22:43 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=NecafjGtGHAPikOR7EYyHhggCvkeRBy571ecCwG8SbQ=; b=EB0zahTQvUd9TMBt/UYJQjux4fLGW7LhpKjfRXoh6ZbsGyZwudcn2kNNhp/DNUKETAnm +IEsvuVVn5O1CSsx2dHdh7CmiMoYuPYn+M7JmAlZUe0RkDr1LAurfHhh4/w/uJSrOb4r eugQE/FUtMidqrGY2FTfbkfWuAZs/JDdLDva6V5DkEt5Ao22tEr1Oji15moFTUuWAXAN yJReAoH6roPUlxv098r4JvKy27cPnNbLo7uP983aL7cIj+Tm6/NGZnbYjMMeRHNgAaYT LtROkbKaIVVhSw80N1LyCTSfYW/f8aFvGXUCSFJ8420LEApR0xEkrCaySJrPgw8ZGEn3 oQ== Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2qtxtrvscg-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Feb 2019 19:22:43 +0000 Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x1RJMgRi026708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Feb 2019 19:22:42 GMT Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x1RJMfMp031557; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 19:22:41 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7d09ffca-fcce-425f-b271-012842276714@default> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 11:22:40 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#34678: 26.1; (elisp) `Minor Mode Conventions' References: <> <<54960e92-89bb-40b1-ba82-1dbd7ff21b03@default>> <<83r2btjazx.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83r2btjazx.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4810.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9180 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=993 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1902270130 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34678 Cc: 34678@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > It also wouldn't hurt to add a reference to node > > `Minor Mode Conventions' from node `Major Mode > > Conventions'. > > > > Perhaps add a mention in node `Major Mode Conventions' > > similar to this one in (elisp) `Minor Mode Conventions': > > > > In addition, several major mode conventions > > apply to minor modes as well: those regarding > > the names of global symbols, the use of a hook > > at the end of the initialization function, and > > the use of keymaps and other tables. >=20 > I don't see why: cross-references don't have to be symmetrical. Did someone say that cross-references have to be symmetrical? > We refer to another node for details of something mentioned in passage, > but that other node doesn't have to provide a cross-reference back. Did someone say that it had to? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 27 14:56:48 2019 Received: (at 34678) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2019 19:56:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54396 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gz5Ju-0003J6-Mj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:56:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44098) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gz5Jt-0003Iu-3n for 34678@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:56:45 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54617) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gz5Jh-0000qH-L5; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:56:35 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3121 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gz5JV-0007SU-TY; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:56:30 -0500 Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 21:56:15 +0200 Message-Id: <83pnrdj99c.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <7d09ffca-fcce-425f-b271-012842276714@default> (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 27 Feb 2019 11:22:40 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#34678: 26.1; (elisp) `Minor Mode Conventions' References: <> <<54960e92-89bb-40b1-ba82-1dbd7ff21b03@default>> <<83r2btjazx.fsf@gnu.org>> <7d09ffca-fcce-425f-b271-012842276714@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34678 Cc: 34678@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 11:22:40 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 34678@debbugs.gnu.org > > > I don't see why: cross-references don't have to be symmetrical. > > Did someone say that cross-references have to be > symmetrical? > > > We refer to another node for details of something mentioned in passage, > > but that other node doesn't have to provide a cross-reference back. > > Did someone say that it had to? You went a long way towards saying that, yes. How else to interpret your amplification of the original report? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 27 15:51:18 2019 Received: (at 34678) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2019 20:51:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54412 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gz6Af-0004a6-CZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 15:51:18 -0500 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:49214) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gz6Ad-0004Zt-CH for 34678@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 15:51:15 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x1RKiGO5067290; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 20:51:09 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=v+Scz8GypugXf+nWljzhTY8HkiUzn3/M0nARru7bx9k=; b=EdpiSq+DRNkV1psnPq6cQAJwd3t6TqjcK/knO3+FT9EMe6W9HChOjbkvDhgDJeMMkiJ2 qK9spn2EOA0IsQjethblhcH0SZsZQ4c9+tlZeMvLoVgqpajesqvyJrFvq4cl+ONkMGuo WU376rz2yq8LgUAA8BpN5ofJ9KNKOl+IvsdHd5ucVt2f23VONzy431Oq6Aq2J68m6HMh PZOUwFwoJE3efxGtqY4zKvqryz5qS8A+NLrHZRS0blsFc4Zap+R+2dPx2mgRHl3Wxts6 aJbynvcQCcoJ3EALa9M6SxAkhSpIzxZIYGrF3EK9uDLA5/UJOnEW3nvetf4PvNBaOKo2 3g== Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2qtwkuda2u-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Feb 2019 20:51:09 +0000 Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x1RKp2PT000662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Feb 2019 20:51:03 GMT Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x1RKp2A8024248; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 20:51:02 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 12:51:01 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#34678: 26.1; (elisp) `Minor Mode Conventions' References: <<>> <<<54960e92-89bb-40b1-ba82-1dbd7ff21b03@default>>> <<<83r2btjazx.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<7d09ffca-fcce-425f-b271-012842276714@default>> <<83pnrdj99c.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83pnrdj99c.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4810.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9180 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1902270137 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34678 Cc: 34678@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > I don't see why: cross-references don't have to be symmetrical. > > > > Did someone say that cross-references have to be > > symmetrical? > > > > > We refer to another node for details of something mentioned in > > > passage, but that other node doesn't have to provide a > > > cross-reference back. > > > > Did someone say that it had to? >=20 > You went a long way towards saying that, yes. How else > to interpret your amplification of the original report? Maybe read what I write, instead of reading between the lines? "It also wouldn't hurt to..." and "Perhaps add a mention..." are nothing like claiming that a cross reference (let alone every such) from A to B _must_ be accompanied by a cross reference from B to A. That's a straw man - no one (except you) mentioned such a rule. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 28 11:49:10 2019 Received: (at 34678) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Feb 2019 16:49:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55431 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gzOru-0000So-I2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:49:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40658) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gzOrs-0000Sb-5Y for 34678@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:49:08 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42226) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gzOrk-0003HQ-Ky; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:49:01 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gzOrj-00027J-Ea; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:48:59 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: <7d09ffca-fcce-425f-b271-012842276714@default> (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 27 Feb 2019 11:22:40 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#34678: 26.1; (elisp) `Minor Mode Conventions' References: <> <<54960e92-89bb-40b1-ba82-1dbd7ff21b03@default>> <<83r2btjazx.fsf@gnu.org>> <7d09ffca-fcce-425f-b271-012842276714@default> Message-Id: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:48:59 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34678 Cc: eliz@gnu.org, 34678@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > I don't see why: cross-references don't have to be symmetrical. > Did someone say that cross-references have to be > symmetrical? That point seems to be valid, but "Did someone say that XYZ" attaches a somewhat aggressive tone to any point. This point could have been stated more kindly, like this There's no reason for them to be symmetrical in general, but I think it would be good in this case to have a reference in the other direction. On the general issue, rather than arguing with the claim that someone disagreed, this approach agrees. Then it leads the discussion out of the tangent and back to the specific question at hand. Please read https://gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication-guidelines.html if you haven't read it recently. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 01 05:28:02 2019 Received: (at 34678-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2019 10:28:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55825 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gzfOb-00051c-VU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Mar 2019 05:28:02 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35035) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gzfOa-00051I-HV for 34678-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Mar 2019 05:28:00 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34859) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gzfOU-0006ws-7u; Fri, 01 Mar 2019 05:27:55 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2393 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gzfOT-0006Ms-S3; Fri, 01 Mar 2019 05:27:54 -0500 Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 12:27:40 +0200 Message-Id: <83fts6j3dv.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 27 Feb 2019 10:56:35 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#34678: 26.1; (elisp) `Minor Mode Conventions' References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34678-done Cc: 34678-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 10:56:35 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > > At two places this node refers to the conventions for major modes, but > there is no link to the doc about major-mode conventions. Please add a > link where one or the other reference is made. Thanks, added. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 02 17:36:05 2019 Received: (at 34678) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Mar 2019 22:36:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57936 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h0DEj-0005yQ-06 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2019 17:36:05 -0500 Received: from mail-qk1-f169.google.com ([209.85.222.169]:35619) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h0DEg-0005xw-RD for 34678@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2019 17:36:03 -0500 Received: by mail-qk1-f169.google.com with SMTP id z13so876554qki.2 for <34678@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 02 Mar 2019 14:36:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=TfMbdxdXyJepVyuT+Rvdp46yXXp+FDrSmYByiGGT3W8=; b=uLC5mwthIz6qVokwsdFZ9SUmhxuFu9M3xditLZMdRQatTgIfJ2PdCBjyxe3kV+j9HV ILv5DZHysUyTcUDSLxSa/xi4JDR+WVkWpYpEdK3KW9n7Z+e3AZ7vctVoUL2rZ4mirBH3 fR9Llscbj8Rov5w6SgbfT57u4E2/kVWZgU8YUjhrE29QYJedmFc+h0eZjFqKX9/RCjSd dgZhAZKcoCw38du78AQLTWO5wcdchGzvCbhDIdl/N1PkHXLNwPQMPWbRJKJ7PKKG1GrY nIrM+UUDTSHp2fXPMTtl5keHgEixz5QTpBBfcSE9S3ZdT+sbuWSJmpJ5H7UxsVl0U7ow oolA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=TfMbdxdXyJepVyuT+Rvdp46yXXp+FDrSmYByiGGT3W8=; b=A1b4orlDfReeXtRGN51AktdIAdTfzLKiz0HR6/QRmJzLfueI8WYruKmpUNuzQGU/fs Q2p2UfdSgpuKLrbA1cUXdVrtMOdl1ess8CPLuQ+FNM+UbMh3UHkJCe4QTbIAMhScplyd W+DLg8hzXVheJdP0Gwy3CGd69EfEzqrMJ0/0a8VtY2i6ZhX9tJY7+R1sQLyy4K6eYsPs E63bC99PgNk6lM746HYpx52ap5V1+KJi7JqUrcQyQFJ+HcEues5QMYNc+Qm621PyHQrN 4llZa/fdXF8jsrm54e9qqOIAV5VKFVzjVD3vzDcjt9PJdr2yfQ3T0VQXtSxUV4nb8Bc3 IpBg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVB1q+S4S6MXnuVwsaRAUkbgO7hiDhmHPtpCbEiHROL93qAXFta ZEbkzDSLPegmp/P1PJwenRw1d3Y9 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx5MtL+2/Roh5V+U55r25hjLQDQIuvbS1gf8Oi6B1BtR0a5U0bWPxft+RXatXQLLL4QJxvf7g== X-Received: by 2002:a37:e405:: with SMTP id y5mr2481283qkf.167.1551566157174; Sat, 02 Mar 2019 14:35:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from minid (cbl-45-2-119-34.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca. [45.2.119.34]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id u1sm1355408qki.36.2019.03.02.14.35.55 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sat, 02 Mar 2019 14:35:56 -0800 (PST) From: Noam Postavsky To: Richard Stallman Subject: Re: bug#34678: 26.1; (elisp) `Minor Mode Conventions' References: > <54960e92-89bb-40b1-ba82-1dbd7ff21b03@default>> <83r2btjazx.fsf@gnu.org>> <7d09ffca-fcce-425f-b271-012842276714@default> Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2019 17:35:54 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:48:59 -0500") Message-ID: <87fts4ucol.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34678 Cc: eliz@gnu.org, 34678@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Richard Stallman writes: > Please read https://gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication-guidelines.html > if you haven't read it recently. The correct URL seems to be https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html From unknown Sat Sep 13 15:28:10 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2019 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator