From unknown Wed Jun 25 02:05:58 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#3454 <3454@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#3454 <3454@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: when reading the emacs manual sometimes goes to the wrong node Reply-To: bug#3454 <3454@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2025 09:05:58 +0000 retitle 3454 when reading the emacs manual sometimes goes to the wron= g node reassign 3454 emacs submitter 3454 Shannon Jones severity 3454 normal thanks From zedzap@gmail.com Tue Jun 2 22:40:45 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 3 Jun 2009 05:40:45 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.0 required=4.0 tests=MULTALT autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n535edw9012794 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:40:41 -0700 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:37089) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MBjDL-00045q-73 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 01:40:39 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MBjDK-00081z-EM for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 01:40:39 -0400 Received: from mail-gx0-f174.google.com ([209.85.217.174]:48460) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MBjDK-00080H-5s for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 01:40:38 -0400 Received: by mail-gx0-f174.google.com with SMTP id 22so296192gxk.18 for ; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:40:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=0nvm+aSQYxL5FqPyDzUqaYplI1JzALQnwaipv5jSQxU=; b=Tsnp9hZ//hNAvbZU21LmO3Bkm842hytrE5oYl8nrCL6M3EXeKE3jYLluqSOSSBnxdg cDVT14sjKn3qqzuPnOqbxC+KQWw1ZVAtJj5SAY7k8D2KNiZmbAe/6IC9fUGlYzWPnxCH L/l3wRhPHv6bO/YzyJkebhCqarHlCXVNJzoVs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=SF3dOxbj6BksVhUvaVc3P1tjYoVCt9jVR3HE9TjdMd2ZUFvladj4T1YwkV0mFcIzgW DeLR8/bT22NuOUANE9J74dfTgleyAs5xxvIbpOqOdSGB5gLkulWIuhLrVsm6tW3Ywxyd ZxPZzEOd0i2U7lwBsmMeEmD11sSdBOO+fst0Y= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.9.17 with SMTP id m17mr309308ybi.23.1244007637092; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 00:40:37 -0500 Message-ID: <9fbd0ee10906022240y1175a362wb399675d06ca07ce@mail.gmail.com> Subject: when reading the emacs manual sometimes goes to the wrong node From: Shannon Jones To: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd47b064e8c13046b6b1972 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) --000e0cd47b064e8c13046b6b1972 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit when reading the emacs manual sometimes goes to the wrong node. Emacs version: GNU Emacs 23.0.94.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.10.4) of 2009-05-26 (built from pretest source tarball) Running on CentOS 5.3. No options given to configure. Also tested on Windows with same results. How to reproduce: Run emacs -Q C-h r (Reads emacs manual) g Command Index (takes you to the "Command and Function Index" page of the manual) M-> (Go to end of info node) At this point, your cursor should be at the end of the info node that lists all commands and functions. Note that at the top, the next node is listed as "Variable Index". I would expect that pressing would take you to this node. However, if you press it takes you to some other node. It takes me to the middle of the node "49 Two-Column Editing". I believe has a similar problem, but I didn't narrow down a test case. According to the manual for Info, "You can read an entire manual top to bottom by just typing ". So it seemed strange to me that pressing went to some place in the middle of the manual instead of the next node. This problem also existed in emacs 22.3. --000e0cd47b064e8c13046b6b1972 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <SPC> when reading the emacs manual sometimes goes to the wrong node.=

Emacs version: GNU Emacs 23.0.94.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version= 2.10.4)
=A0of 2009-05-26 (built from pretest source tarball)

Run= ning on CentOS 5.3.
No options given to configure.
Also tested on Windows with same results.=


How to reproduce:

Run emacs -Q
C-h r (Reads emacs man= ual)
g Command Index (takes you to the "Command and Function Index&= quot; page of the manual)
M-> (Go to end of info node)

At this point, your cursor should be= at the end of the info node that lists all commands and functions.=A0 Note= that at the top, the next node is listed as "Variable Index".=A0= I would expect that pressing <SPC> would take you to this node.=A0 H= owever, if you press <SPC> it takes you to some other node.=A0 It tak= es me to the middle of the node "49 Two-Column Editing".

I believe <DEL> has a similar problem, but I didn't narrow do= wn a test case.

According to the manual for Info, "You can read= an entire manual top to bottom by just typing <SPC>".=A0 So it = seemed strange to me that pressing <SPC> went to some place in the mi= ddle of the manual instead of the next node.

This problem also existed in emacs 22.3.

--000e0cd47b064e8c13046b6b1972-- From eliz@gnu.org Wed Jun 3 08:39:22 2009 Received: (at 3454-done) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 3 Jun 2009 15:39:22 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,GMAIL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n53FdIYQ032509 for <3454-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 08:39:19 -0700 Received: from eliz by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MBsYf-0002mJ-Tq; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:39:17 -0400 From: Eli Zaretskii To: Shannon Jones , 3454-done@debbugs.gnu.org In-reply-to: <9fbd0ee10906022240y1175a362wb399675d06ca07ce@mail.gmail.com> (message from Shannon Jones on Wed, 3 Jun 2009 00:40:37 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#3454: when reading the emacs manual sometimes goes to the wrong node Reply-to: Eli Zaretskii References: <9fbd0ee10906022240y1175a362wb399675d06ca07ce@mail.gmail.com> Message-Id: Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:39:17 -0400 > Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 00:40:37 -0500 > From: Shannon Jones > Cc: > Reply-To: Shannon Jones , 3454@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com > > Run emacs -Q > C-h r (Reads emacs manual) > g Command Index (takes you to the "Command and Function Index" page of the > manual) > M-> (Go to end of info node) > > At this point, your cursor should be at the end of the info node that lists > all commands and functions. Note that at the top, the next node is listed > as "Variable Index". I would expect that pressing would take you to > this node. However, if you press it takes you to some other node. It > takes me to the middle of the node "49 Two-Column Editing". This is not a bug: SPC does _not_ necessarily go to the Next node; instead, it traverses the nodes as a tree: if there is a menu in the current node, it takes you to the first menu item of that menu. If you need to go to the Next node, type `n', not SPC. > According to the manual for Info, "You can read an entire manual top to > bottom by just typing ". Right, but by going to the Next node you will not end up reading the whole manual, because Next does not descend to sections, subsections, subsubsections, etc. SPC does, so it does indeed guarantee that you end up reading the whole manual in the logical order: before you move to the next chapter, you read all the sections and subsections of the current chapter. This logic does TRT in nodes that are not indices, because an index is ordered alphabetically, not in any meaningful order as far as the sections are concerned. Morale: do not use SPC at the end of an index, use `n'. I'm closing this report. From zedzap@gmail.com Wed Jun 3 11:15:52 2009 Received: (at 3454) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 3 Jun 2009 18:15:53 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,GMAIL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.27]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n53IFl5J023115 for <3454@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:15:48 -0700 Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 5so136096qwd.13 for <3454@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:15:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=p8q81FEB39H2c1KWtH9CDFdDBJ6KG7jf8S9dH7OZOhQ=; b=NVDsM1v3xmlQ/lL6SXs/kar5CCHDn1220KXMl+OrSKzo6zZAkVl3e9RWzkU46L/kw6 UGsGJ9IIHtuTp1BbhxtL9s/RxqY6L7cyoQ8nI3xh5tAUXh94TblRDRN2nMQtBAIKkawR a6ocqtIcPK63YEQvC8RlYMtElHOudKp71cvq4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=bgJXKrn96SonlwlHNIPTK8181nYeFZCaCnhiWjvCeMhDkXsVgSWwpBmWENA3mVmz61 TI4oqZsVaD62F5i1bqV8nJo5GhrHEKCsfZABfcdNF7CxZPg/6PolFkvMy4BdzDEv19e8 zAzpF0PsU5hs2EVBHfxW2v6Y3XH1QCcXY6678= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.139.3 with SMTP id r3mr1646695ybn.210.1244052947195; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:15:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <9fbd0ee10906022240y1175a362wb399675d06ca07ce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:15:47 -0500 Message-ID: <9fbd0ee10906031115k39dc138ej57ebc2972fdc964b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: bug#3454: when reading the emacs manual sometimes goes to the wrong node From: Shannon Jones To: Eli Zaretskii , 3454@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 00:40:37 -0500 >> From: Shannon Jones >> Cc: >> Reply-To: Shannon Jones , 3454@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.= com >> >> Run emacs -Q >> C-h r (Reads emacs manual) >> g Command Index (takes you to the "Command and Function Index" page of t= he >> manual) >> M-> (Go to end of info node) >> >> At this point, your cursor should be at the end of the info node that li= sts >> all commands and functions. =A0Note that at the top, the next node is li= sted >> as "Variable Index". =A0I would expect that pressing would take yo= u to >> this node. =A0However, if you press it takes you to some other nod= e. =A0It >> takes me to the middle of the node "49 Two-Column Editing". > This is not a bug: SPC does _not_ necessarily go to the Next node; > instead, it traverses the nodes as a tree: if there is a menu in the > current node, it takes you to the first menu item of that menu. Thanks for the quick response :-) I see what my problem was now. Each item listed in the Index is a subnode of the Index. So pressing at the bottom of the Index page will take me to the first item listed in the Index. I was expecting it to take me to the Next node in the manual, since I didn't realize that the index entries were considered subnodes. >> According to the manual for Info, "You can read an entire manual top to >> bottom by just typing ". > > Right, but by going to the Next node you will not end up reading the > whole manual, because Next does not descend to sections, subsections, > subsubsections, etc. =A0SPC does, so it does indeed guarantee that you > end up reading the whole manual in the logical order: before you move > to the next chapter, you read all the sections and subsections of the > current chapter. Unfortunately, pressing does not allow you to traverse the whole emacs manual from top to bottom, like the Info manual says it will. If you go to the top node of the manual (C-h r) and press space repeatedly, you follow this path: Table of Contents Distribution Introduction Glossary Key (Character) Index 37.8 Shell Commands in Dired 37.9 ... Appendix G GNU Manifesto Then cycles back to Distribution Note that you skip sections 1..36 completely, and most of 37. By having the index near the beginning, it messes up navigation a bit. But it only impacts odd people like me who read the manual from the beginning :-) That's how I noticed this. I was paging through the manual from the beginning, and suddenly found myself skipping over most of the manual. > I'm closing this report. > That's fine, I agree it's not a bug. I'll just remember to hit 'n' at the bottom of indexes instead of . From geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Wed Jun 3 16:42:18 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 3 Jun 2009 23:42:19 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n53NgDNe003828 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:42:15 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MC061-0003hu-F2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:42:13 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MC05x-0003cL-OX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:42:13 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=38627 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MC05x-0003cI-Ll for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:42:09 -0400 Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2]:44277 helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MC05x-0005Y3-7R for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:42:09 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1MC05s-00081Y-8M for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 23:42:04 +0000 Received: from remote2.student.chalmers.se ([129.16.29.80]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 23:42:04 +0000 Received: from bojohan+news by remote2.student.chalmers.se with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 23:42:04 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: bojohan+news@dd.chalmers.se (Johan =?utf-8?Q?Bockg=C3=A5rd?=) Subject: Re: bug#3454: marked as done ( when reading the emacs manual sometimes goes to the wrong node) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 01:41:53 +0200 Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <9fbd0ee10906022240y1175a362wb399675d06ca07ce@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: remote2.student.chalmers.se Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.110009 (No Gnus v0.9) Emacs/23.0.90 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:Cq/FrlyCCNSsgI2OG/EsQl6PxIc= Sender: news X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) > This logic does TRT in nodes that are not indices, because an index is > ordered alphabetically, not in any meaningful order as far as the > sections are concerned. > > Morale: do not use SPC at the end of an index, use `n'. The `]' command does get this case right though. From monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Thu Jun 4 09:06:22 2009 Received: (at 3454) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 4 Jun 2009 16:06:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com (ironport2-out.teksavvy.com [206.248.154.182]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n54G6In1010993 for <3454@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:06:19 -0700 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ar8EAFCNJ0pLd+nI/2dsb2JhbACBT89ehAwFhgY X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.41,306,1241409600"; d="scan'208";a="39630610" Received: from 75-119-233-200.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO ceviche.home) ([75.119.233.200]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 04 Jun 2009 12:06:12 -0400 Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 347DBB45E9; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 12:06:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Shannon Jones Cc: 3454@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#3454: when reading the emacs manual sometimes goes to the wrong node Message-ID: References: <9fbd0ee10906022240y1175a362wb399675d06ca07ce@mail.gmail.com> <9fbd0ee10906031115k39dc138ej57ebc2972fdc964b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:06:12 -0400 In-Reply-To: <9fbd0ee10906031115k39dc138ej57ebc2972fdc964b@mail.gmail.com> (Shannon Jones's message of "Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:15:47 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.94 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> This is not a bug: SPC does _not_ necessarily go to the Next node; >> instead, it traverses the nodes as a tree: if there is a menu in the >> current node, it takes you to the first menu item of that menu. > Thanks for the quick response :-) > I see what my problem was now. Each item listed in the Index is a > subnode of the Index. So pressing at the bottom of the Index > page will take me to the first item listed in the Index. I was > expecting it to take me to the Next node in the manual, since I didn't > realize that the index entries were considered subnodes. Actually I think that SPC's behavior in index nodes is wrong. Basically, SPC currently presumes that info nodes linked by menus form a tree, and it is mostly true, but not for index menus. Stefan From eliz@gnu.org Thu Jun 4 09:11:16 2009 Received: (at 3454) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 4 Jun 2009 16:11:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n54GBCY3011728 for <3454@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:11:13 -0700 Received: from eliz by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MCFX5-00028C-Kn; Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:11:11 -0400 From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Monnier CC: zedzap@gmail.com, 3454@debbugs.gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:06:12 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#3454: when reading the emacs manual sometimes goes to the wrong node Reply-to: Eli Zaretskii References: <9fbd0ee10906022240y1175a362wb399675d06ca07ce@mail.gmail.com> <9fbd0ee10906031115k39dc138ej57ebc2972fdc964b@mail.gmail.com> Message-Id: Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:11:11 -0400 > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: 3454@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, Eli Zaretskii > Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:06:12 -0400 > > Actually I think that SPC's behavior in index nodes is wrong. > Basically, SPC currently presumes that info nodes linked by menus form > a tree, and it is mostly true, but not for index menus. Index is just a large menu; it's not easy to distinguish the two, and the decision would be error-prone. We already tried to ``improve'' Info, and I cannot say that the result looks good. I don't see why bother in this case: a human can always know that she is in an index, and not use SPC near the end. From monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Thu Jun 4 11:37:14 2009 Received: (at 3454) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 4 Jun 2009 18:37:15 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, MURPHY_DRUGS_REL8 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com (ironport2-out.teksavvy.com [206.248.154.182]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n54IbBED031875 for <3454@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:37:12 -0700 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgwFAKOxJ0pLd+nI/2dsb2JhbACBT84xhAsFhgY X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.41,306,1241409600"; d="scan'208";a="39641517" Received: from 75-119-233-200.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([75.119.233.200]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 04 Jun 2009 14:37:05 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 6EED187CA; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:37:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: zedzap@gmail.com, 3454@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#3454: when reading the emacs manual sometimes goes to the wrong node Message-ID: References: <9fbd0ee10906022240y1175a362wb399675d06ca07ce@mail.gmail.com> <9fbd0ee10906031115k39dc138ej57ebc2972fdc964b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:37:05 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:11:11 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.94 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Actually I think that SPC's behavior in index nodes is wrong. >> Basically, SPC currently presumes that info nodes linked by menus form >> a tree, and it is mostly true, but not for index menus. > Index is just a large menu; it's not easy to distinguish the two, and > the decision would be error-prone. We already tried to ``improve'' > Info, and I cannot say that the result looks good. Wether we should fix the behavior is a different question from whether it's right or wrong. I think the behaviro is wrong. I agree that's it's not terribly important, so unless we can come up with a fix that is simple and reliable, it's probably better to leave things as they are. This said, "recent" versions of makeinfo label index nodes with an "index cookie", so if we see such a cookie, we know for sure we're in an index node. That should make it possible to write a good patch. Stefan From drew.adams@oracle.com Mon Jun 8 11:27:10 2009 Received: (at 3454) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 8 Jun 2009 18:27:11 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, MURPHY_DRUGS_REL8,MURPHY_SEX_L2 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from rgminet11.oracle.com (rcsinet11.oracle.com [148.87.113.123]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n58IR5EU013329 for <3454@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:27:06 -0700 Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n58IRpPR019054 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 8 Jun 2009 18:27:52 GMT Received: from abhmt007.oracle.com (abhmt007.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n58IQxUx022557; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 18:27:00 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.179.10) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:26:53 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , <3454@debbugs.gnu.org>, "'Eli Zaretskii'" Cc: References: <9fbd0ee10906022240y1175a362wb399675d06ca07ce@mail.gmail.com><9fbd0ee10906031115k39dc138ej57ebc2972fdc964b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: RE: bug#3454: when reading the emacs manual sometimes goes to thewrong node Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:26:51 -0700 Message-ID: <66C8E4FEA7F248D7ADC14CF42FC4897A@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcnldNPZnO4VgZmNSUiy/rZJmv2pNQC72hNA In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: abhmt007.oracle.com [141.146.116.16] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010205.4A2D57EF.0168:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 > "recent" versions of makeinfo label index nodes with an > "index cookie", so if we see such a cookie, we know for sure > we're in an index node. That should make it possible to write > a good patch. I think this bug should be fixed, no matter how minor it might seem to someone who understands well the structure of Info or its implementation. It really should be possible for someone to use a single key (`SPC') to traverse the manual, with no exceptions. Even adding a pseudo menu item at the beginning of the index, which would DTRT (since SPC goes to the first menu item's node), would be useful, if no better solution can be found. I'm not necessarily proposing such an ugly hack, but it might be better than nothing. `n' doesn't go anywhere when there is no `Next' node, and `SPC' doesn't go to the right place when you are at the end of an index. Users should not need to sometimes use `n' and sometimes use `SPC', and think consciously about which might be appropriate and work, in order to simply traverse the manual from front to back (and then wrap back to the front). And this attitude is not a great one, IMO: "Morale: do not use SPC at the end of an index, use `n'. I'm closing this report." From unknown Wed Jun 25 02:05:58 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: $requester Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:24:18 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # A New Hope # A log time ago, in a galaxy far, far away # something happened. # # Magically this resulted in the following # action being taken, but this fake control # message doesn't tell you why it happened # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator