From tlikonen@iki.fi Tue Jun 2 07:35:48 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 2 Jun 2009 14:35:48 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=4.0 tests=none autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n52EZhKr015228 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 07:35:45 -0700 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:45307) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MBV5a-0005X8-WC for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 10:35:43 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MBV5Z-0004PW-B5 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 10:35:42 -0400 Received: from mta-out.inet.fi ([195.156.147.13]:42044 helo=kirsi1.inet.fi) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MBV5Y-0004Ma-MX for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 10:35:41 -0400 Received: from imladris.arda.local (84.251.6.80) by kirsi1.inet.fi (8.5.014) id 49F6055A015D9577 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 17:35:32 +0300 Received: from dtw by imladris.arda.local with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MBV5D-0001Gm-GB for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:35:19 +0300 From: Teemu Likonen To: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org Subject: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi" Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:35:19 +0300 Message-ID: <87skiipuu0.fsf@iki.fi> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Here's a minor but easily fixable bug in HELLO file (C-h h). In the file Finnish name for our language is written in capital letters but it should be in small letters. Capital "Suomi" means our country; "suomi is the language. I'd also write "hyv=E4=E4" in small letters because it does= n't begin a new sentence. So this would be the correct version: Finnish (suomi) Hei, hyv=E4=E4 p=E4iv=E4=E4 ^ ^ Yes, I'm a Finnish teacher. :-) From handa@m17n.org Tue Jun 2 17:41:54 2009 Received: (at 3450) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 3 Jun 2009 00:41:54 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mx1.aist.go.jp (mx1.aist.go.jp [150.29.246.133]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n530fnMS003103 for <3450@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 17:41:50 -0700 Received: from rqsmtp1.aist.go.jp (rqsmtp1.aist.go.jp [150.29.254.115]) by mx1.aist.go.jp with ESMTP id n530flec006082; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:41:47 +0900 (JST) env-from (handa@m17n.org) Received: from smtp3.aist.go.jp by rqsmtp1.aist.go.jp with ESMTP id n530flNd023019; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:41:47 +0900 (JST) env-from (handa@m17n.org) Received: by smtp3.aist.go.jp with ESMTP id n530flio010400; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:41:47 +0900 (JST) env-from (handa@m17n.org) Received: from handa by etlken with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MBeYK-0002ye-Tq; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 09:42:00 +0900 From: Kenichi Handa To: Teemu Likonen , 3450@debbugs.gnu.org In-reply-to: <87skiipuu0.fsf@iki.fi> (message from Teemu Likonen on Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:35:19 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#3450: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi" References: <87skiipuu0.fsf@iki.fi> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 09:42:00 +0900 In article <87skiipuu0.fsf@iki.fi>, Teemu Likonen writes: > Here's a minor but easily fixable bug in HELLO file (C-h h). In the file > Finnish name for our language is written in capital letters but it > should be in small letters. Capital "Suomi" means our country; "suomi is > the language. I'd also write "hyvää" in small letters because it doesn't > begin a new sentence. So this would be the correct version: > Finnish (suomi) Hei, hyvää päivää > ^ ^ Thank you. We'll fix "suomi". But for "hyvää", I'm not sure. That part is not a normal setence but is a listing of words saying hello, and "," is just a separator of each independent item. If that file is written in of HTML, perhaps we'll format it as this: Should we downcase "Hyvää" in that case? --- Kenichi Handa handa@m17n.org From tlikonen@iki.fi Tue Jun 2 21:49:56 2009 Received: (at 3450) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 3 Jun 2009 04:49:57 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from jenni2.inet.fi (mta-out.inet.fi [195.156.147.13]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n534npod005211 for <3450@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 21:49:53 -0700 Received: from imladris.arda.local (84.251.6.80) by jenni2.inet.fi (8.5.014) id 49F5CB6401624EFE; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 07:49:48 +0300 Received: from dtw by imladris.arda.local with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MBiQ2-0002Lf-W4; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 07:49:43 +0300 From: Teemu Likonen To: Kenichi Handa Cc: 3450@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#3450: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi" In-Reply-To: (Kenichi Handa's message of "Wed, 03 Jun 2009 09:42:00 +0900") References: <87skiipuu0.fsf@iki.fi> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 07:49:42 +0300 Message-ID: <874oux2a6x.fsf@iki.fi> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2009-06-03 09:42 (+0900), Kenichi Handa wrote: > Thank you. We'll fix "suomi". But for "hyvää", I'm not sure. That part > is not a normal setence but is a listing of words saying hello, and > "," is just a separator of each independent item. With a comma (,) the most obvious Finnish interpretation is that they belong to the same sentence. Comma is just a natural Finnish separator for the greeting ("Hei") and other syntactic content. I understand that one could say that the HELLO file does not list sentences in different languages and that the comma is meant to be higher-level separator of items. But does this meaning reach a human reader? I'd say "no" because there is already a higher-level separator in each line, namely the tab cells with the width of 32 characters. This issue is not something I'd go fighting for too seriously. I'll just say that I think most Finnish people see that line as a single sentence. > If that file is written in
FinnishsuomiHeiHyvää päivää
of HTML, perhaps we'll format it as > this: > > > > Should we downcase "Hyvää" in that case? In such context it's quite free. You could write them all small letters or capitalize only the first letter of item in a table cell, like: Finnish suomi hei hyvää päivää or Finnish suomi Hei Hyvää päivää Just choose the one that fits to the general picture. :-) From handa@m17n.org Mon Jun 8 05:18:42 2009 Received: (at 3450) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 8 Jun 2009 12:18:43 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, IMPRONONCABLE_2,SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mx1.aist.go.jp (mx1.aist.go.jp [150.29.246.133]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n58CIceL016628 for <3450@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 05:18:39 -0700 Received: from rqsmtp1.aist.go.jp (rqsmtp1.aist.go.jp [150.29.254.115]) by mx1.aist.go.jp with ESMTP id n58CIbVP025014; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:18:37 +0900 (JST) env-from (handa@m17n.org) Received: from smtp1.aist.go.jp by rqsmtp1.aist.go.jp with ESMTP id n58CIa5h013112; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:18:37 +0900 (JST) env-from (handa@m17n.org) Received: by smtp1.aist.go.jp with ESMTP id n58CIa19015616; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:18:36 +0900 (JST) env-from (handa@m17n.org) Received: from handa by etlken with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MDdoC-00036R-NK; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:18:36 +0900 From: Kenichi Handa To: Teemu Likonen CC: 3450@debbugs.gnu.org In-reply-to: <874oux2a6x.fsf@iki.fi> (message from Teemu Likonen on Wed, 03 Jun 2009 07:49:42 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#3450: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi" References: <87skiipuu0.fsf@iki.fi> <874oux2a6x.fsf@iki.fi> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:18:36 +0900 In article <874oux2a6x.fsf@iki.fi>, Teemu Likonen writes: > > If that file is written in
FinnishsuomiHeiHyvää päivää
of HTML, perhaps we'll format it as > > this: > > > > > > > > Should we downcase "Hyvää" in that case? > In such context it's quite free. You could write them all small letters > or capitalize only the first letter of item in a table cell, like: > Finnish suomi hei hyvää päivää > or > Finnish suomi Hei Hyvää päivää How about modifying the line as this: Finnish (suomi) Hei / Hyvää päivää Then, it is clear that each of "Hei" and "Hyvää päivää" is an independent item, isn't it? I think the other lines should take this format too. --- Kenichi Handa handa@m17n.org From tlikonen@iki.fi Mon Jun 8 08:51:00 2009 Received: (at 3450) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 8 Jun 2009 15:51:01 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from kirsi2.inet.fi (mta-out.inet.fi [195.156.147.13]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n58FotP3019574 for <3450@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:50:57 -0700 Received: from imladris.arda.local (84.251.6.80) by kirsi2.inet.fi (8.5.014) id 49F6DD58018AF13D; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 18:50:52 +0300 Received: from dtw by imladris.arda.local with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MDh7I-0001Ay-IZ; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:50:32 +0300 From: Teemu Likonen To: Kenichi Handa Cc: 3450@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#3450: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi" In-Reply-To: (Kenichi Handa's message of "Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:18:36 +0900") References: <87skiipuu0.fsf@iki.fi> <874oux2a6x.fsf@iki.fi> Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:50:32 +0300 Message-ID: <87zlci3et3.fsf@iki.fi> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2009-06-08 21:18 (+0900), Kenichi Handa wrote: > How about modifying the line as this: > > Finnish (suomi) Hei / Hyvää päivää > > Then, it is clear that each of "Hei" and "Hyvää päivää" is > an independent item, isn't it? I think the other lines > should take this format too. I'm fine with that. From tlikonen@iki.fi Sat Jun 13 13:33:24 2009 Received: (at 3450-done) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 13 Jun 2009 20:33:25 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from jenni1.inet.fi (mta-out.inet.fi [195.156.147.13]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n5DKXK4M015018 for <3450-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 13:33:21 -0700 Received: from mithlond.arda.local (80.220.180.181) by jenni1.inet.fi (8.5.014) id 49F5976601C744D4 for 3450-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:33:19 +0300 Received: from dtw by mithlond.arda.local with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MFZug-0007vx-O6 for 3450-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:33:18 +0300 From: Teemu Likonen To: 3450-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi" In-Reply-To: <87skiipuu0.fsf@iki.fi> (Teemu Likonen's message of "Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:35:19 +0300") References: <87skiipuu0.fsf@iki.fi> Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:33:18 +0300 Message-ID: <87k53fri0h.fsf@iki.fi> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.94 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 2009-06-02 17:35 (+0300), Teemu Likonen wrote: > Here's a minor but easily fixable bug in HELLO file (C-h h). In the > file Finnish name for our language is written in capital letters but > it should be in small letters. Capital "Suomi" means our country; > "suomi is the language. This is fixed now in CVS. I'll close. From unknown Tue Jun 24 06:54:42 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: $requester Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:24:10 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # A New Hope # A log time ago, in a galaxy far, far away # something happened. # # Magically this resulted in the following # action being taken, but this fake control # message doesn't tell you why it happened # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator
FinnishsuomiHeiHyvää päivää