GNU bug report logs - #3450
23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi"

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Message #5 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Teemu Likonen <tlikonen <at> iki.fi>
To: emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org
Subject: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi"
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:35:19 +0300

Here's a minor but easily fixable bug in HELLO file (C-h h). In the file
Finnish name for our language is written in capital letters but it
should be in small letters. Capital "Suomi" means our country; "suomi is
the language. I'd also write "hyvää" in small letters because it doesn't
begin a new sentence. So this would be the correct version:

Finnish (suomi)                 Hei, hyvää päivää
         ^                           ^

Yes, I'm a Finnish teacher. :-)

Message #10 received at 3450 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Kenichi Handa <handa <at> m17n.org>
To: Teemu Likonen <tlikonen <at> iki.fi>, 3450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#3450: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is
 "suomi"
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 09:42:00 +0900

In article <87skiipuu0.fsf <at> iki.fi>, Teemu Likonen <tlikonen <at> iki.fi> writes:

> Here's a minor but easily fixable bug in HELLO file (C-h h). In the file
> Finnish name for our language is written in capital letters but it
> should be in small letters. Capital "Suomi" means our country; "suomi is
> the language. I'd also write "hyvää" in small letters because it doesn't
> begin a new sentence. So this would be the correct version:

> Finnish (suomi)                 Hei, hyvää päivää
>          ^                           ^

Thank you.  We'll fix "suomi".  But for "hyvää", I'm not
sure.  That part is not a normal setence but is a listing of
words saying hello, and "," is just a separator of each
independent item.  If that file is written in <TABLE> of
HTML, perhaps we'll format it as this:

<TR><TD>Finnish</TD><TD>suomi</TD><TD>Hei</TD><TD>Hyvää päivää</TD></TR>

Should we downcase "Hyvää" in that case?

---
Kenichi Handa
handa <at> m17n.org

Message #15 received at 3450 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Teemu Likonen <tlikonen <at> iki.fi>
To: Kenichi Handa <handa <at> m17n.org>
Cc: 3450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#3450: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi"
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 07:49:42 +0300

On 2009-06-03 09:42 (+0900), Kenichi Handa wrote:

> Thank you. We'll fix "suomi". But for "hyvää", I'm not sure. That part
> is not a normal setence but is a listing of words saying hello, and
> "," is just a separator of each independent item.

With a comma (,) the most obvious Finnish interpretation is that they
belong to the same sentence. Comma is just a natural Finnish separator
for the greeting ("Hei") and other syntactic content. I understand that
one could say that the HELLO file does not list sentences in different
languages and that the comma is meant to be higher-level separator of
items. But does this meaning reach a human reader? I'd say "no" because
there is already a higher-level separator in each line, namely the tab
cells with the width of 32 characters.

This issue is not something I'd go fighting for too seriously. I'll just
say that I think most Finnish people see that line as a single sentence.

> If that file is written in <TABLE> of HTML, perhaps we'll format it as
> this:
>
> <TR><TD>Finnish</TD><TD>suomi</TD><TD>Hei</TD><TD>Hyvää päivää</TD></TR>
>
> Should we downcase "Hyvää" in that case?

In such context it's quite free. You could write them all small letters
or capitalize only the first letter of item in a table cell, like:

    Finnish     suomi       hei         hyvää päivää

or

    Finnish     suomi       Hei         Hyvää päivää

Just choose the one that fits to the general picture. :-)

Message #20 received at 3450 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Kenichi Handa <handa <at> m17n.org>
To: Teemu Likonen <tlikonen <at> iki.fi>
Cc: 3450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#3450: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is
 "suomi"
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:18:36 +0900

In article <874oux2a6x.fsf <at> iki.fi>, Teemu Likonen <tlikonen <at> iki.fi> writes:

> > If that file is written in <TABLE> of HTML, perhaps we'll format it as
> > this:
> >
> > <TR><TD>Finnish</TD><TD>suomi</TD><TD>Hei</TD><TD>Hyvää päivää</TD></TR>
> >
> > Should we downcase "Hyvää" in that case?

> In such context it's quite free. You could write them all small letters
> or capitalize only the first letter of item in a table cell, like:

>     Finnish     suomi       hei         hyvää päivää

> or

>     Finnish     suomi       Hei         Hyvää päivää

How about modifying the line as this:

Finnish (suomi)	            Hei / Hyvää päivää

Then, it is clear that each of "Hei" and "Hyvää päivää" is
an independent item, isn't it?  I think the other lines
should take this format too.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa <at> m17n.org

Message #25 received at 3450 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Teemu Likonen <tlikonen <at> iki.fi>
To: Kenichi Handa <handa <at> m17n.org>
Cc: 3450 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#3450: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi"
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:50:32 +0300

On 2009-06-08 21:18 (+0900), Kenichi Handa wrote:

> How about modifying the line as this:
>
> Finnish (suomi)	            Hei / Hyvää päivää
>
> Then, it is clear that each of "Hei" and "Hyvää päivää" is
> an independent item, isn't it?  I think the other lines
> should take this format too.

I'm fine with that.

Message #30 received at 3450-done <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Teemu Likonen <tlikonen <at> iki.fi>
To: 3450-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi"
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:33:18 +0300

On 2009-06-02 17:35 (+0300), Teemu Likonen wrote:

> Here's a minor but easily fixable bug in HELLO file (C-h h). In the
> file Finnish name for our language is written in capital letters but
> it should be in small letters. Capital "Suomi" means our country;
> "suomi is the language.

This is fixed now in CVS. I'll close.

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