From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: Deus Max Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2019 17:48:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.15467968669024 (code B ref -1); Sun, 06 Jan 2019 17:48:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2019 17:47:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48974 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggCWW-0002LS-C8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 12:47:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:33760) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gg8WS-0003gP-Pu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 08:31:26 -0500 Received: from [209.51.188.17] (port=56264 helo=lists.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gg8WK-0007XX-Qm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 08:31:19 -0500 Received: from eggsout.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34501 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gg8WF-0006QE-MX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 08:31:16 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gg8W9-0007Kr-S6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 08:31:11 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:44897) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gg8W9-0007Im-D9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 08:31:05 -0500 Received: from dellcorei5dias ([5.55.202.130]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002 [212.227.17.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LikQP-1hJ3hg3ymL-00cxu3 for ; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 14:31:02 +0100 From: Deus Max Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2019 15:30:58 +0200 Message-ID: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:nJ++rI5ZIAjTjkv/LxLsVYxKnhw8WTVMGaNjuGq4vVEjn/qMvSB oBYlpG4kfugq3ADzgPvzFGnG1/ZIESWx2tAcxAvjNaHUd9VtT729lbRNRXmShs3UN6gA5/W 3fIx44nmucsObg/jqElXCIOoBSKeTWj01QSzRkfLXhK7JiMwQ5rrH6foawnbtGCMZ2yddSz yymeZ0UHTSWtZCwLyDFJQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:dDcEqvlkPYM=:PcM8LtRvVvUCoeu4QgHcWI 5yF5w6zdq2lbSpeWhfzHT9oXHIRLRG1o+bJ/8f3mZmgYRHR5VnS56ZyePERZLBjlNUbW2zdDj +dXXsug49Tl8dW4nZW1W1/WnDF2s3G3tndB/KdG4QkpOCuieBFF0KrxjRphze0jq/SO0s48Q7 ojlVujBLnWF+PxDBL0rSpAl05KUT54v8EOd7zYwthM+JMnnN1vLngepSHCkzFEDZypV0UFPbB YiLce/aBIptWWNkq5tu2xUGeRD08QkG/tldvQBU2vepHfs0hgyW438LhKr8lKrYmRs3S+0WhV 7/jEa/28UxB2CGQoY2081tpEX4XfsBoTajIqz+XrNMidYDsltNS3YLy5gK3VFF2kaCp9Sine4 Ls4rDYfNJa41bQtFtj/SC9nKf01MQfAE7QN4bI8My048s3OHZ7VC+Sluy+N70fSyd2A7TD+AA IzST1keRlEoiEBJfufpPDwI6XEOj5F04X4yS+V0YfvxNePyAlgm+PUAGDI2YSNyY6ZXw1hRDX nwpo0W9qj/mPbxm9+vk2lVUvCzsATaeTMDVO+civxi8yeepIxSZ4WrTGRszXH7fA0XV/Y3DAQ f67Gz9Lrm2P/nwaOGK/fANbkHv6GgnUmv+/y9mMY4sEcVBrHmTovKOpU+5rqlHmOWPJ4IGsV7 ktg+83G8BdfNXpJYQVKOIIgN53vrSLRZ+WHcTuHWJX9y/Qd7pB/9o5w8nfcF1GnNHyNwS8hzh 2AlGPZbNr7C6NzZh635DHJYlLTbgoJLrCeUSpeqa1QME4YgXp2qF0zA8gTfTdA5d1DcXV5Dcm dpLFhbbaVs+bn5v47lYqTCi798em3aHFOSMIOPZELlmZmlqXHVQtsNJPA4XTROLw0LnOWxQs+ J9T+7M2C3F4xdYO8Y/UeV7T0EOVdYmK/AaW+z0W9fzsgEDiVYLg3Ozmd7MghuA X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 212.227.15.15 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 06 Jan 2019 12:47:42 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) Function cl-delete refuses to delete the first element of a list. I tried with all sorts of list elements, same results each time. Here is a simple example: (setq tst '(5 8 9 5 10 14 5 23)) (cl-delete 10 tst) -> returns (5 8 9 5 14 5 23) and=20 tst -> (5 8 9 5 14 5 23) (cl-delete 5 tst) -> returns (8 9 14 23) but tst -> (5 8 9 14 23) The CL-manual says nothing about the first element being special. *ALL* should mean all, right ? Am I missing something here ? CL-manual says: =E2=80=94 Function: cl-delete item seq &key :test :test-not :key :count= :start :end :from-end This deletes all elements of seq that match item. It is a destructive operation. Since Emacs Lisp does not support stretchable strings or vectors, this is the same as cl-remove for those sequence types. On lists, cl-remove will copy the list if necessary to preserve the original list, whereas cl-delete will splice out parts of the argument list. Compare append and nconc, which are analogous non-destructive and destructive list operations in Emacs Lisp. In GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.24) of 2018-11-24 built on dellcorei5dias Repository revision: 4ef9bcd0ff0eccb0c0810f43370eaa76aef2f4ec Repository branch: master Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11905000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux buster/sid Recent messages: (5 8 9 10 14 23) (5 8 9 14 23) [3 times] (5 8 9 14) [2 times] (8 9 14) (5 8 9 14) [2 times] Indenting region...done t nil 8 (#o10, #x8, ?\C-h) (8 9 14) (5 8 9 14) Configured using: 'configure --with-x-toolkit=3Dgtk3 --with-dbus --without-cairo --with-modules --with-file-notification=3Dyes --with-xwidgets --without-selinux 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -s'' Configured features: XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND GPM DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY INOTIFY GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS XWIDGETS LIBSYSTEMD JSON LCMS2 GMP Important settings: value of $LANG: en_GB.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: 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org-footnote org-pcomplete org-list org-faces org-entities noutline outline easy-mmode org-version ob-latex ob-plantuml ob-org ob-shell ob-ditaa ob-dot ob-emacs-lisp ob ob-tangle org-src ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-keys ob-exp ob-comint ob-core ob-eval org-compat org-macs org-loaddefs ebdb-com crm mailabbrev ebdb-format ebdb eieio-opt speedbar sb-image ezimage dframe find-func eieio-base cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs timezone lxc-tramp tramp trampver tramp-compat tramp-loaddefs ucs-normalize shell pcomplete comint ansi-color ring parse-time format-spec advice paren midnight gnus nnheader gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums time-date mail-utils mm-util mail-prsvr wid-edit elec-pair cus-start cus-load mule-util tex-site rx url-auth info finder-inf package let-alist derived pcase cl-extra help-mode easymenu url-handlers url-parse auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs eieio-loaddefs password-cache json map url-vars seq byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cconv epg epg-config subr-x cl-loaddefs cl-lib tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core term/tty-colors frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting xwidget-internal move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 2296603 369440) (symbols 48 101962 3) (strings 32 395979 68773) (string-bytes 1 12997792) (vectors 16 172805) (vector-slots 8 3160555 181220) (floats 8 2162 1676) (intervals 56 154396 6404) (buffers 992 375)) From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 17:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Deus Max Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.15468812555468 (code B ref 33998); Mon, 07 Jan 2019 17:15:02 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2019 17:14:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48910 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggYTd-0001Q7-6H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 12:14:15 -0500 Received: from mail-qt1-f180.google.com ([209.85.160.180]:42709) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggYTY-0001Po-6a for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 12:14:10 -0500 Received: by mail-qt1-f180.google.com with SMTP id d19so1241374qtq.9 for <33998@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 09:14:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=63Y/BDHTig3XAc7hsgzQkgANjbSq2cSE1alGeU6g6WU=; b=jG2A7vRYnE5z6JLHlkwuHbHIahQPq2Odq4HRXW57SufPRHAINKxFRw4rBwx8T1ZSsb dT+Yl7jjnsuC3mU68cWjVzOdT3mVVVL24oXLJAvuMnB9F9yFbOEwrrF0IzqYUDwkY9P+ O9N/lPIsdsqKDGWhvz5tzgtiTpZNM8bYPebarCbN1sQl99ChOeJd5Kq/GryURButKjbs 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by 2002:a0c:fc09:: with SMTP id z9mr4857314qvo.157.1546881242236; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 09:14:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> In-Reply-To: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 17:13:50 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) There is no bug. You should always read "destructive" as "potentially destructive". 'cl-delete', being a function, cannot know that the value you passed it is pointed to by the symbol 'tst'. Or, in lisp speak, that that value is the variable binding of 'tst'. Because it doesn't know this, it cannot affect the variable binding of 'tst', to be '(cdr tst)', which would be the only way to do what you want (remove the first element). If 'cl-delete' were a macro, like 'pop' is, it could do that (but that would have other disadvantages). So, cumbersome as it is, you should always use: (setq seq (cl-delete thing seq )) The docstring of 'delq' has this explanation more or less: delq is a built-in function in `C source code'. (delq ELT LIST) Delete members of LIST which are `eq' to ELT, and return the result. More precisely, this function skips any members `eq' to ELT at the front of LIST, then removes members `eq' to ELT from the remaining sublist by modifying its list structure, then returns the resulting list. Write `(setq foo (delq element foo))' to be sure of correctly changing the value of a list `foo'. See also `remq', which does not modify the argument. Jo=C3=A3o On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 5:48 PM Deus Max wrote: > > > Function cl-delete refuses to delete the first element of a list. > I tried with all sorts of list elements, same results each time. > Here is a simple example: > > (setq tst '(5 8 9 5 10 14 5 23)) > > (cl-delete 10 tst) -> returns (5 8 9 5 14 5 23) > and > tst -> (5 8 9 5 14 5 23) > > (cl-delete 5 tst) -> returns (8 9 14 23) > but > tst -> (5 8 9 14 23) > > The CL-manual says nothing about the first element being special. *ALL* > should mean all, right ? Am I missing something here ? > > CL-manual says: > =E2=80=94 Function: cl-delete item seq &key :test :test-not :key :cou= nt :start :end :from-end > > This deletes all elements of seq that match item. It is a > destructive operation. Since Emacs Lisp does not support > stretchable strings or vectors, this is the same as cl-remove for > those sequence types. On lists, cl-remove will copy the list if > necessary to preserve the original list, whereas cl-delete will > splice out parts of the argument list. Compare append and nconc, > which are analogous non-destructive and destructive list > operations in Emacs Lisp. > > > In GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.24) > of 2018-11-24 built on dellcorei5dias > Repository revision: 4ef9bcd0ff0eccb0c0810f43370eaa76aef2f4ec > Repository branch: master > Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.1190500= 0 > System Description: Debian GNU/Linux buster/sid > > Recent messages: > (5 8 9 10 14 23) > (5 8 9 14 23) [3 times] > (5 8 9 14) [2 times] > (8 9 14) > (5 8 9 14) [2 times] > Indenting region...done > t > nil > 8 (#o10, #x8, ?\C-h) > (8 9 14) > (5 8 9 14) > Configured using: > 'configure --with-x-toolkit=3Dgtk3 --with-dbus --without-cairo > --with-modules --with-file-notification=3Dyes --with-xwidgets > --without-selinux 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -s'' > > Configured features: > XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND GPM DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB > NOTIFY INOTIFY GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB > TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS XWIDGETS > LIBSYSTEMD JSON LCMS2 GMP > > Important settings: > value of $LANG: en_GB.UTF-8 > locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix > > Major mode: Emacs-Lisp > > Minor modes in effect: > treemacs-follow-mode: t > treemacs-filewatch-mode: t > treemacs-git-mode: deferred > treemacs-fringe-indicator-mode: t > which-key-mode: t > global-magit-file-mode: t > magit-auto-revert-mode: t > global-git-commit-mode: t > recentf-mode: t > diff-auto-refine-mode: t > paredit-mode: t > helm-mode: t > helm-autoresize-mode: t > async-bytecomp-package-mode: t > mode-icons-mode: t > global-hl-line-mode: t > shell-dirtrack-mode: t > show-paren-mode: t > midnight-mode: t > electric-pair-mode: t > tooltip-mode: t > global-eldoc-mode: t > eldoc-mode: t > electric-indent-mode: t > mouse-wheel-mode: t > tool-bar-mode: t > menu-bar-mode: t > file-name-shadow-mode: t > global-font-lock-mode: t > font-lock-mode: t > blink-cursor-mode: t > 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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/org-protocol hides = /usr/local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/org-protocol > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ob-org hides /usr/l= ocal/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ob-org > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/org-id hides /usr/l= ocal/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/org-id > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/org-colview hides /= usr/local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/org-colview > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ob-screen hides /us= r/local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ob-screen > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/org-bibtex hides /u= sr/local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/org-bibtex > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ob-haskell hides /u= sr/local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ob-haskell > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ox-beamer hides /us= r/local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ox-beamer > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ob-ocaml hides /usr= /local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ob-ocaml > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/org-datetree hides = /usr/local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/org-datetree > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ob-makefile hides /= usr/local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ob-makefile > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/org-list hides /usr= /local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/org-list > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/org-table hides /us= r/local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/org-table > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ob-lisp hides /usr/= local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ob-lisp > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ob-fortran hides /u= sr/local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ob-fortran > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ob-ditaa hides /usr= /local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ob-ditaa > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ob-sed hides /usr/l= ocal/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ob-sed > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ob-python hides /us= r/local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ob-python > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ob-calc hides /usr/= local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ob-calc > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ob-R hides /usr/loc= al/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ob-R > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ob-lob hides /usr/l= ocal/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ob-lob > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/org-loaddefs hides = /usr/local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/org-loaddefs > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ob-dot hides /usr/l= ocal/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ob-dot > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/org-footnote hides = /usr/local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/org-footnote > /home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20181230/ob-gnuplot hides /u= sr/local/share/emacs/27.0.50/lisp/org/ob-gnuplot > > Features: > (shadow flyspell emacsbug gnus-registry registry helm-misc helm-ls-git > powerline-separators powerline-themes gnus-recent-helm gnus-uu yenc > novice ac-js2 skewer-mode cache-table js2-mode js sgml-mode simple-httpd > ert ewoc spinner ghub-graphql treepy graphql ghub guix-ui-generation > guix-ui-profile guix-ui-package guix-license guix-ui-store-item > guix-package pcmpl-unix guix-location guix-auto-mode guix-build-log > guix-misc guix-ui guix-ui-messages guix-read guix-repl guix-profiles > guix-external guix-geiser guix-guile geiser-mode geiser-xref > geiser-compile geiser-debug geiser-chibi geiser-mit geiser-chez > geiser-chicken geiser-racket geiser-guile geiser-repl geiser-image > geiser-company geiser-doc geiser-menu geiser-edit geiser-completion > geiser-autodoc geiser-eval geiser-connection tq geiser-syntax scheme > geiser-log geiser-popup view guix-help-vars guix-config > guix-default-config guix-help guix-utils guix bui bui-list bui-info > bui-entry bui-core bui-history bui-button bui-utils request trace > info-look shut-up dash-functional elisp-refs loop ledger-check > ledger-texi ledger-test ledger-sort ledger-reconcile ledger-occur > ledger-fonts ledger-complete ledger-fontify ledger-state ledger-schedule > ledger-init ledger-report ledger-commodities ledger-xact ledger-post > ledger-exec ledger-navigate ledger-context ledger-regex edit-indirect > dabbrev savehist org-learn hi-lock org-capture org-bibtex org-attach > ob-clojure password-store skeleton ibuf-macs ibuf-ext ibuffer > ibuffer-loaddefs treemacs-compatibility treemacs-mode treemacs-interface > treemacs-extensions treemacs-persistence treemacs-mouse-interface > treemacs-tag-follow-mode treemacs-follow-mode treemacs-filewatch-mode > treemacs-tags treemacs-faces treemacs-rendering treemacs-async > treemacs-icons treemacs-workspaces treemacs-structure treemacs-visuals > treemacs-fringe-indicator pulse treemacs-impl treemacs-macros inline > treemacs-customization ace-window avy f pfuture s tempo org-table bibtex > geiser-impl geiser-custom geiser-base geiser ob-octave ebnf2ps > calc-store calc-trail calc-ext autoload url-http-ntlm ntlm calc > calc-loaddefs calc-macs hmac-md5 hex-util md4 url-http url-gw url-cache > wdired cc-awk magit-ediff ediff-merg ediff-wind ediff-diff ediff-mult > ediff-help ediff-init ediff-util ediff vc vc-dispatcher auto-complete > popup php-mode php-project mode-local flymake-proc flymake warnings > cc-langs sh-script smie executable org-eldoc org-toc org-bookmark > org-mouse org-info org-id org-gnus nnir org-eww org-eshell org-docview > doc-view org-crypt org-bbdb gitconfig-mode lisp-mnt checkdoc gnus-kill > iso-transl which-key cus-edit shr-color gitignore-mode conf-mode > bug-reference image-mode dired-x magit-extras magit-bookmark > magit-submodule magit-obsolete magit-blame magit-stash magit-bisect > magit-push magit-pull magit-fetch magit-clone magit-remote magit-commit > magit-sequence magit-notes magit-worktree magit-tag magit-merge > magit-branch magit-reset magit-files magit-refs magit-status magit > magit-repos magit-apply magit-wip magit-log which-func imenu magit-diff > magit-core magit-autorevert autorevert filenotify magit-process > magit-margin magit-mode git-commit magit-git magit-section magit-utils > magit-popup log-edit pcvs-util add-log with-editor server smerge-mode > diff ispell helm-ring switch-window switch-window-mvborder > switch-window-asciiart quail cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds > cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs debug cl-print gnus-dup shr > text-property-search svg dom mm-archive sort smiley gnus-cite mail-extr > gnus-bcklg gnus-async qp gnus-ml cursor-sensor nndraft nnmh nnfolder > utf-7 gnutls network-stream nsm gnus-agent gnus-srvr gnus-score > score-mode nnvirtual nntp gnus-cache misearch multi-isearch help-fns > radix-tree dired-aux helm-eshell company-oddmuse company-keywords > company-etags etags multifile xref project company-gtags > company-dabbrev-code company-dabbrev company-files company-capf > company-cmake company-xcode company-clang company-semantic company-eclim > company-template company-bbdb eshell-fringe-status jka-compr em-unix > em-term term disp-table ehelp em-script em-prompt em-ls em-hist em-pred > em-glob em-cmpl em-basic em-banner em-alias tramp-cache tramp-sh recentf > tree-widget ido helm-x-files helm-for-files helm-bookmark helm-adaptive > bookmark pp dired-hide-dotfiles gnus-recent helm-command helm-elisp > helm-eval edebug backtrace helm-info vc-git diff-mode winner image-file > helm-external helm-net browse-url xml url url-proxy url-privacy > url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie url-domsuf ffap paredit > pdf-loader two-column hydra lv bm printing ps-print ps-print-loaddefs > ps-def lpr flycheck-ledger flycheck occur-x multiple-cursors > mc-hide-unmatched-lines-mode mc-separate-operations > rectangular-region-mode mc-mark-pop mc-mark-more thingatpt > mc-cycle-cursors mc-edit-lines multiple-cursors-core rect > esh-autosuggest company eshell-z em-dirs eshell-did-you-mean esh-var > esh-cmd esh-opt esh-io esh-ext esh-proc esh-arg esh-groups eshell > esh-module esh-mode esh-util eshell-up helm-swoop helm-mode helm-files > helm-buffers helm-tags helm-locate helm-grep wgrep-helm wgrep grep > compile helm-regexp helm-utils helm-help helm-types helm helm-source > eieio-compat helm-multi-match helm-lib helm-config helm-easymenu > async-bytecomp async ace-jump-mode mode-icons emojify apropos tar-mode > ht dash hl-line color edmacro kmacro cal-china lunar solar cal-dst > cal-islam cal-julian holidays hol-loaddefs appt diary-lib diary-loaddefs > org-mime ox-org ox-odt rng-loc rng-uri rng-parse rng-match rng-dt > rng-util rng-pttrn nxml-parse nxml-ns nxml-enc xmltok nxml-util ox-latex > ox-icalendar ox-html table ox-ascii ox-publish ox org-habit org-edna > org-clock htmlize cl ebdb-complete ebdb-message sendmail ebdb-gnus > gnus-msg gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime dig mailcap > gnus-sum gnus-group gnus-undo gnus-start gnus-cloud nnimap nnmail > mail-source utf7 netrc nnoo gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range message rmc > puny dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec epa mm-decode mm-bodies > mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 gmm-utils mailheader gnus-win ebdb-mua > ebdb-org org-element avl-tree generator org-location-google-maps > org-agenda google-maps google-maps-static url-util google-maps-geocode > google-maps-base org org-macro org-footnote org-pcomplete org-list > org-faces org-entities noutline outline easy-mmode org-version ob-latex > ob-plantuml ob-org ob-shell ob-ditaa ob-dot ob-emacs-lisp ob ob-tangle > org-src ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-keys ob-exp ob-comint ob-core ob-eval > org-compat org-macs org-loaddefs ebdb-com crm mailabbrev ebdb-format > ebdb eieio-opt speedbar sb-image ezimage dframe find-func eieio-base > cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs timezone lxc-tramp tramp trampver > tramp-compat tramp-loaddefs ucs-normalize shell pcomplete comint > ansi-color ring parse-time format-spec advice paren midnight gnus > nnheader gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums > time-date mail-utils mm-util mail-prsvr wid-edit elec-pair cus-start > cus-load mule-util tex-site rx url-auth info finder-inf package > let-alist derived pcase cl-extra help-mode easymenu url-handlers > url-parse auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs eieio-loaddefs > password-cache json map url-vars seq byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile > cconv epg epg-config subr-x cl-loaddefs cl-lib tooltip eldoc electric > uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel term/x-win x-win > term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe > tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mode lisp-mode > prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch timer select > scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core > term/tty-colors frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang > vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 > hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic > chinese composite charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook > help simple abbrev obarray minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs > button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 > base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable > backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting > system-font-setting font-render-setting xwidget-internal move-toolbar > gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs) > > Memory information: > ((conses 16 2296603 369440) > (symbols 48 101962 3) > (strings 32 395979 68773) > (string-bytes 1 12997792) > (vectors 16 172805) > (vector-slots 8 3160555 181220) > (floats 8 2162 1676) > (intervals 56 154396 6404) > (buffers 992 375)) > > > -- Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 17:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= , Deus Max Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.15468821456906 (code B ref 33998); Mon, 07 Jan 2019 17:30:02 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2019 17:29:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48916 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggYi1-0001nK-6D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 12:29:05 -0500 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:55960) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggYhz-0001mk-PM for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 12:29:04 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id x07H9k5P061237; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 17:28:57 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=9k0uxrc9H504PUs7KqvDqhwPu1iZWYY1v8Hsx+VTDAs=; b=VAUCvvV0tcSiLOzOlSx4vmVGJZUK8B0e+YcfNODo9G9tRYlhlSyQYLAbwP4QQzyHyGoI o8G4ErDWowrZrcgkDeexTArtEjWVCClCPy2JljhXEDJMBecW9vm81st/aEbqhz2hvKsu O/MC+cX4o98YbExbtBIw37yfRHFMcpO+4LWbsaM+ARyvRi95WzWW3lUSlUT9wP6459ln P3TuY8lY+E/gTy3odau0ilP5KLr6qX7SKGTthom7JwNEq9KmPKoxjinUsycr6j2DaYk2 xjH3EJNDRcVXa5CLa7m/5LAXxfJFW8f/0kJU3r00O1LJlukxgwFy1F9y19mVpHdSpuGP Eg== Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ptm0ty431-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 07 Jan 2019 17:28:57 +0000 Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x07HSuGQ002515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 Jan 2019 17:28:56 GMT Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x07HStl0002687; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 17:28:55 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 09:28:54 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4783.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9129 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=787 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1901070149 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > So, cumbersome as it is, you should always use: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > (setq seq (cl-delete thing seq)) FWIW, this is not really true. `cl-delete' deletes THING from the _value_ of SEQ. You might or you might not want variable SEQ to have the updated value. A variable and its value are two different things. IOW, that's one common, and important, use case, but this is not some always-do-this rule for users. The manual takes pains to explain this stuff carefully. It's better to just refer to the manual to help users understand it. (And you did that, which is great.) From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 18:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org, Deus Max Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.154688429010670 (code B ref 33998); Mon, 07 Jan 2019 18:05:02 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2019 18:04:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48927 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggZGc-0002m1-Fq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 13:04:50 -0500 Received: from mail-qt1-f175.google.com ([209.85.160.175]:40762) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggZGY-0002ll-Dh for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 13:04:47 -0500 Received: by mail-qt1-f175.google.com with SMTP id k12so1450931qtf.7 for <33998@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 10:04:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3wQMduq8hhEcOxR9bONxmeVmZYoGiBeZRh1jT4YLxTU=; b=sbugff8l5dJBvwK5BLOB7G5t9OWVxRegUSoTBvF7UcOkvaYzGtUk78oMgIo1gzMXc0 MLAsBdfavIAomYHXXMM0ExPL569m1Q4FeU7Fx6MA1Cmq5IS+EyKyjkuZhGhndecS5Hy0 SROP8y2c9W265Ae4uMNTk7ReSJRmBAb4zmV5LhCr2JC1YSvCxiC9o5BPQxvUYpIMXcCD djPF4LJiQGbxbtfXppFE8EwcYhEUhfy8DUDNst0wzaZWb1bPuRLfD+JpdL2EBy3DkkpZ u+PxEN6qkVEPRnDzRFc5lLS/vNN3ojJKL/PfUuhJVwHyCxSLJ0cGneHvxwKJhBrouDT1 gNpA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3wQMduq8hhEcOxR9bONxmeVmZYoGiBeZRh1jT4YLxTU=; b=EgM8EWdRto2oZQC6+gqO6AueB5gRebCm33VKPL5ZRLlpvpWk0oESnOQ7TT0g4LaX8K tmec9muhIIJWAUbH6Fc16W7NjjDUxE3qX/Dye7sMd6t4HaCYmZX+v6gYlGDZ8Q6DYEIu dT2OZlpHlOqXCmMjXklAi6GM7IEX/1uzLQqShvrcCWN5gsNF6Wx5Nv4jD92WicePzRgc +AQIufCiwP/l1Er/pCPLmZD9Adk6a5cSahzwcm4zINWUFknaee2CP9AfiNra3MTYs8nC YIjkREcBbiwy84q9Iug/kmOspyxK2HuTreW6qfT8h0O33iSwFv9z7548mYdR/CYhNHAZ GM5w== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukfy8hMQG2DW6cfQKyc7pCGNpL26PmAo0J7NF0Fuu9shXrYrfyCw sFZbOUOsxwYrOcN9viI0KKcwtsWDt37JvNWTROw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6TJl6YVfnYOA+UPlLpAfyQcYURhnVVhcAsUVXisI7OFYP6b/gyH1b7dJevbyU+WJJOyQgpIDZDGzoPBbHSUYM= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3e91:: with SMTP id y17mr32712090qtf.390.1546884280854; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 10:04:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> In-Reply-To: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 18:04:29 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 5:29 PM Drew Adams wrote: > > > So, cumbersome as it is, you should always use: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > (setq seq (cl-delete thing seq)) > > FWIW, this is not really true. > > `cl-delete' deletes THING from the > _value_ of SEQ. You might or you > might not want variable SEQ to have > the updated value. But this is what he wanted, so what's the point in making this more confusing than it needs to be? (rethorical btw, but type away if you so wish...). Jo=C3=A3o From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 18:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org, Deus Max Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.154688487611631 (code B ref 33998); Mon, 07 Jan 2019 18:15:02 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2019 18:14:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48933 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggZQ3-00031W-Gl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 13:14:36 -0500 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:48942) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggZQ0-00031F-Ri for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 13:14:33 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id x07IEMt6115848; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 18:14:27 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=fyy48tmeKpmdFhGmHbVL/rice07lFncL1hdpHfSWpWc=; b=t9VZMjSPup5rePJC2K3Q5cfoyBW/AT0qe01ai7VZqe/iEHsDwWXy9ZUj/VmUC1bMhWcL bahMdNiXsyuzLi8A/6jpfnvkn8eeGom1Gw00xC2E+j1k/gCsN0pz11a6a90x9cuVXpWH jQcbYPRH3gRGYtCFZOm27xLFtPzs+quGDhY1cb58BlHtlDqMqALo7ZbC0hBiC94OxMrV fZzBurHsuH3851f4570CPjJLFHed0R02KkepsCva1vVnYPdJAX68MuQPfHDuJJnpb7a3 aCVGL080T281+JZ+7gyzchnaFXGAcy/VQ8AG/5aCOi1vLucyatD1OM5iAC+bQOAIQyVc Ng== Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ptm0tybe1-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 07 Jan 2019 18:14:26 +0000 Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x07IEKsR023424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 Jan 2019 18:14:21 GMT Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x07IEKZB027306; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 18:14:20 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <39367b1c-ea27-4627-99e3-eb7d0745c60f@default> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:14:19 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4783.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9129 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=707 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1901070156 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > So, cumbersome as it is, you should always use: > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > (setq seq (cl-delete thing seq)) > > > > FWIW, this is not really true. > > > > `cl-delete' deletes THING from the > > _value_ of SEQ. You might or you > > might not want variable SEQ to have > > the updated value. >=20 > But this is what he wanted, so what's > the point in making this more confusing > than it needs to be? It's enough to suggest that he might want to do that, and point to the manual for explanation. It's the "always" that's misleading. From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: Deus Max Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 20:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= , Drew Adams Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.154689247123633 (code B ref 33998); Mon, 07 Jan 2019 20:22:01 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2019 20:21:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48978 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggbOZ-000696-4o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 15:21:11 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:37295) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggbOY-00068r-0U for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 15:21:10 -0500 Received: from dellcorei5dias ([5.55.202.130]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M1FAK-1hZXQQ1yWW-00tCwb; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 21:20:58 +0100 From: Deus Max References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 22:20:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: ("=?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?="'s message of "Mon, 7 Jan 2019 17:13:50 +0000") Message-ID: <877efgte1k.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:f47LxdVkTmEnXpC+khKxgsc+MydeZURpDFkbkf9OLOQFx60Ab3o tOa3VzqnzMhOL9lHjb8uiaTjCmv8HJ7a+FQw6Xaz+jUYlBqWtj3MoZpC2iY8v7XaagbtrhT gl1qUIcwZBGKSAjoXEQW41LAHt44fGlnDDEkFfAunqmJAYvQyROP67/v8/Py/gj7/rOEviL ZTB49xjXXRY28gHBE+Dgw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Q1JASeC/Cw8=:b2wHvFrqUgNO1icn6BTrUe 04e3lzdrAitcRuepXdU4BKIz62TS4C7+eLhuMO/8WZBVVwoYNocaGBoO+WZ6eoOl8lxHFR+ZG gHp/JHCrNGOEvTgDX6HdVJykWetRcoaEMcCT2rjiJ0tmrgqoxVZjunFkT/B28B/FLYo9K4F0v uxRAJng/DEJBegZICYEXRRaHX6Pla+t7ROhLAdN88UDgHvt02Ti23LlBx0EFOR8ohlpFofdPz FI18BXEYFHAbh3haoEW6OdUzqQO0J4Ul4B7uRZCTG99MJk9Vq1OOS+V8lAN5W5vtOxfdKJBEl IB2sXbMKPw4sY8+MlIn7qBnBT2KOp6pCaPX0EZZqfF70yTj66Hr/2rlp9X+bsv9fmUm7Ic3Kd jsJr/eIhXIZVmNtNchdrO20bgbdbqco9trnbMMy2xodzoKgsMbnf1N+56Nx0Z06y+UzNUo0AC 4QBbMHLygdX6NuPZQDKKP9/xJ6Ak94LjiXotqiTlLTvVeuwUM6KqmEt5kEW61ZgZ5zFKT8lpb 2xVO4oGVL+8B1R3D3C8MJQIqdcM7YpL3QAUrAQV78puNy3gcvWwdeemUXeL9pLb29M3BULTIr zYMYngM5pMUmxj4COWhhMPY9m+ZM8Unb6Z//iWrPgTgw36zekJPqVyOIZ8n4FCs8NB59T8VlQ xBsk/tfnD7n7YDvOQbozItixux2m61wK6Z3umBoXo+CWJC5dBJ8rKAGFaMtpohngB0HdNtvj1 YSl/l4MFfs/tRSZrNcMwhT2Akmqp1QzKsgEO+vU7qmfSl6wdUzRi0wTRD2M5kISHbL3j8WoSP hUG/sLHg6YVMltaUAPxTJTOaP+rGR9OR3VIuA8phRTfyWO9nDs1lICNfEbuTiQYwIYy4dHL0J l0JA484Ab3OV20kOkTzcCJUHEsWRUe8KlWeXRCz582rZFKGcU2xpUEozUYG9iv X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Thank you both for your replies. On Mon, Jan 07 2019, Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora wrote: > There is no bug. > > You should always read "destructive" as "potentially > destructive". > I believe the manual is precise and not up to interpretation. When it says that it is "destructive", it is always "destructive". The cl-delete function is always destructive. The variable you pass is modified. > 'cl-delete', being a function, cannot know that the value > you passed it is pointed to by the symbol 'tst'. Or, in lisp > speak, that that value is the variable binding of 'tst'. > > Because it doesn't know this, it cannot affect the variable > binding of 'tst', to be '(cdr tst)', which would be the only > way to do what you want (remove the first element). > > If 'cl-delete' were a macro, like 'pop' is, it could do that > (but that would have other disadvantages). > > So, cumbersome as it is, you should always use: > > (setq seq (cl-delete thing seq )) > > The docstring of 'delq' has this explanation more or less: > > delq is a built-in function in `C source code'. > > (delq ELT LIST) > > Delete members of LIST which are `eq' to ELT, and return the result. > More precisely, this function skips any members `eq' to ELT at the > front of LIST, then removes members `eq' to ELT from the remaining > sublist by modifying its list structure, then returns the resulting > list. > > Write `(setq foo (delq element foo))' to be sure of correctly changing > the value of a list `foo'. See also `remq', which does not modify the > argument. > > Jo=C3=A3o > The elisp functions `delq' and delete "destructive" as per manual remove elements from a list and return the resulting list. It goes on to recommend to always use the `(setq foo (delq elm foo))' construct. OK, I agree, no argument here. But my point is about function `cl-delete', which is part of the cl-extension. So, the manual descriptions of `delq', `delete' do not apply. In cl: - to keep the original sequence intact, use `cl-remove'. - to modify the original sequence, use `cl-delete'. The manual states for `cl-delete': This deletes all elements of seq that match item. It is a destructive operation. (period, no optional) It goes on to remark, on the analogy between `cl-remove' and `cl-delete': Compare append and nconc, which are analogous non-destructive and destructive list operations in Emacs Lisp. I still thing it is a bug. It (`cl-delete') should delete *all* elements of seq, that match item, not = only in the returning value, but in the sequence itself. Anyway, that is how it behaves in all other cases, except for the case of a match on the *first* element. I don't see why the first element should be different. The manual makes no mention of this as a special (and peculiar) case. > > > > > On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 5:48 PM Deus Max wrote: >> >> >> Function cl-delete refuses to delete the first element of a list. >> I tried with all sorts of list elements, same results each time. >> Here is a simple example: >> >> (setq tst '(5 8 9 5 10 14 5 23)) >> >> (cl-delete 10 tst) -> returns (5 8 9 5 14 5 23) >> and >> tst -> (5 8 9 5 14 5 23) >> >> (cl-delete 5 tst) -> returns (8 9 14 23) >> but >> tst -> (5 8 9 14 23) *** Wrong ! should be the same to the returned value. >> >> The CL-manual says nothing about the first element being special. *ALL* >> should mean all, right ? Am I missing something here ? >> >> CL-manual says: >> =E2=80=94 Function: cl-delete item seq &key :test :test-not :key :count = :start :end > :from-end >> >> This deletes all elements of seq that match item. It is a >> destructive operation. Since Emacs Lisp does not support >> stretchable strings or vectors, this is the same as cl-remove for >> those sequence types. On lists, cl-remove will copy the list if >> necessary to preserve the original list, whereas cl-delete will >> splice out parts of the argument list. Compare append and nconc, >> which are analogous non-destructive and destructive list >> operations in Emacs Lisp. >> DeusMax From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 20:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Deus Max , =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= , Drew Adams Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.154689286624253 (code B ref 33998); Mon, 07 Jan 2019 20:28:01 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2019 20:27:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48983 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggbUv-0006J7-VZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 15:27:46 -0500 Received: from mail-lj1-f173.google.com ([209.85.208.173]:36515) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggbUt-0006It-Mu for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 15:27:44 -0500 Received: by mail-lj1-f173.google.com with SMTP id g11-v6so1496234ljk.3 for <33998@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 12:27:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nkJ585nKn5mmNpYKJlsVpaiJVS+YVaa68nOJqZcXR7s=; b=ZzGtVUaDXg77ie2k1rojW+fUBwiqmPwOwv9VQOGabyjsvFE6R8Z97vOt+zIwlbnOU5 svK/7wIazm1H2Nupi90ND/jGfH/TMJzHHL+Kb+elKP2Hukbch1FyEZTwbOdrcdnr2VIm T/dPUXNhslP28h2r7Ti1ESoF0NXDebs7i8ZsBdQML+XWmoGZ/xz0k5cvrioGWNugnTML SFIEbtyVCT9wA6Wl5neMbCtuNZxCozrue3Azelm0+BafFKnuHKiONoxnkAf8H/UvONmv vFrwScUSHB0rkd9Mkjfy9kSNDb3D6e0RHD7J7pN85J/gPUJEklzWzvxXn+KTEKtXVdmE IUfg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=nkJ585nKn5mmNpYKJlsVpaiJVS+YVaa68nOJqZcXR7s=; b=VwXYw9FdbuwW26Zr9SvkDST280V6IqqJopFozHRLonSA8KGHKyX1Dn7NYh0xKiPnCj dBtRmwxxIpMiNbtCmMcgL5esVhN38uIq3kCzKlJN87XO00gKsI4bpHdc2HQnSvs/vRJs 1XI5/IpFZBSB6DLpRTsdfhdAvl7J0IO5DBPBRvoSEkKssYgUlVSFYNVs/hQ9zP8qEcr/ Ejd/MiCfSMnyIqXZJBCZWTvWGOY53vXPOdaQMNn0wa9FA1mIPQLjzGdaZUqvutHvKupE /Lg4j6oBXPmk/PGDvyImnV3y9ifFzLdC5oGXXq6rJ2FKoBacivXDX2h+clGFXpx37rKP dJxw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukeXHHOFvBCV5GeWn8RqSKVIp3pIjEHx4paAMoM+rtAM22m3KWLC aInUwnVigPaEFFuizPxErn03qfQk X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7p8u4msg8TRShwqlb7A/RvSoqdfLDQDX4KlnmeWlxUhVX3h2MlQwWKbN2pL9dk+SHAUsaQoQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:98c9:: with SMTP id s9-v6mr29093680ljj.166.1546892857413; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 12:27:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.174] ([178.252.127.239]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id m63-v6sm15484313lje.81.2019.01.07.12.27.36 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Jan 2019 12:27:36 -0800 (PST) References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> <877efgte1k.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> From: Dmitry Gutov Message-ID: <219daf3c-1341-a2aa-6d0e-6388c4a3184b@yandex.ru> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 23:27:34 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:65.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/65.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <877efgte1k.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 07.01.2019 23:20, Deus Max wrote: > The variable you pass is modified. The value. Not the variable. The latter keeps pointing at whatever cons it's pointed before. Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.5 RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB RBL: SORBS: sender is an abusable web server [178.252.127.239 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.208.173 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (raaahh[at]gmail.com) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) On 07.01.2019 23:20, Deus Max wrote: > The variable you pass is modified. The value. Not the variable. The latter keeps pointing at whatever cons it's pointed before. From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: Deus Max Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 20:49:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= , Drew Adams Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.154689411226298 (code B ref 33998); Mon, 07 Jan 2019 20:49:01 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2019 20:48:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48988 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggbp2-0006q6-L7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 15:48:32 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:33993) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggboz-0006ps-EV for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 15:48:29 -0500 Received: from dellcorei5dias ([5.55.202.130]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx003 [212.227.17.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LwZtX-1hMYQv3PNX-018KZT; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 21:48:19 +0100 From: Deus Max References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> <877efgte1k.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> <219daf3c-1341-a2aa-6d0e-6388c4a3184b@yandex.ru> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 22:48:15 +0200 In-Reply-To: <219daf3c-1341-a2aa-6d0e-6388c4a3184b@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Mon, 7 Jan 2019 23:27:34 +0300") Message-ID: <8736q4tcs0.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:6pJRPSorYy6niA9P6JmulAlYEDb4qX9qzEkLMDvmxp/Fewn+u6y myGIKfv9XlRQcnNBghAy1q2OGZWGFdzi/oKeVAeGZrnCsrjBsIHotIKmpNfdLV83lJyg8H0 VD8g70+93Ws8YnkyO/7WtL9GM9rb0WbFePRbhsVz8ptYy/NBdQkzzRervaHBpmyrNGGC8UG d3KkOLorhKe5EFi+CUY0w== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:bpDKIwWKsXg=:TvgAcN5Fet9Y4RokHulD7P psI0FMRcO6Pql4LCavSIb8jA186Slmi9feX9oCWzdCns5tUfN6x4O7XrC+hfJDkBn7re6TboV 7f+QdY8TSwAjqU4bwRWjwfrc+DZAy3Z+LBhmFNZV3qT/l95FcltJ1RIua5byfHrkwOmXm/S8c t30JDdop1LRD+z5OBKCUY/Ky/Ml2fiZJAbDnnqC9XMi73kFsp/08ZfNkyC5HL7aI3LRwXzmvT 05o6JrYY1ScXNgXXrT2GGraMDZybauF0sCvSI/Qz5j84orvWP6JGaqR7K2bGGy6xA8w8pvNqk cvUxgdDNwmdmOEy5AuodexG7jTOd8u6xvLKbjdCjCpwFzwdn0awcRhz6ZIeWknhQI8/SPKtn5 dmylht2QR9ieJBkaBtqX4Ca5yqFLUTouWyTtYOZUiYPsv56weLpgLfX/AN0kHjvmaQgRGLvYc sx+obPi6w5V/5YenCxnQA583nG+PciEFSgFb3XdH1YdP8P2IJCkO6afiE/uabrl50Nl/b4ymM fPJiAhN8SnFX4UXDdiPoIVLvpXneqG4yh2nANpz3lG/+C7+c1i7WRxw8eZS7R+5Wa/j8GiPN0 WFDH8Hi4x4hUlVIPpUW1TMxPYbzbQ1L4+wqM2FKMFpSL+GLdhoX8Ssre6kEU3Z1j6QoZWjGVb rig5RXu5uevz1u02yoKrlZ7W8DBU40Sq9MXQqTne0fpNxoZ1vRXdx3hFnOxlCiGZ/Tqyxv61d s5MLpnY80m/54WuYhx7YAVogrfNDmIjd5kwsMsg2ro+8Jz+T38rGD3ICVyG82b0rKCjFi7iGy yngT8as5LONR9l2z9KuoguN4mIqvO2IYUX+xK2rxTFlYuX3B9lur/mPp0Q2H5sbbPSyjCUv1r RySlTOO7O7l/OTCYR2JLJ8MWz54l/Ju37RoXJv/gXjS0NHS569sKPZK5+TNIFE X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Mon, Jan 07 2019, Dmitry Gutov wrote: > On 07.01.2019 23:20, Deus Max wrote: >> The variable you pass is modified. > > The value. Not the variable. The latter keeps pointing at whatever cons it's pointed > before. Now, I got it ! Yes it is not a bug! thank you all ! From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 21:07:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , Deus Max Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.154689521528014 (code B ref 33998); Mon, 07 Jan 2019 21:07:01 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2019 21:06:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48998 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggc6p-0007Hm-6x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 16:06:55 -0500 Received: from mail-wm1-f42.google.com ([209.85.128.42]:55856) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggc6m-0007HY-La for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 16:06:53 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-f42.google.com with SMTP id y139so2132702wmc.5 for <33998@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 13:06:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tizPwq9D5tHa8pSvJNpyQ2EcoXemAC90suerIgFYKbk=; b=LQypLFfzDVI9hNMlG/CiSXD8McrPmuyCGqrEM32I1UYdTlRXF5xaUVaHFzJBrW75wV TR25ajj7Hw2YxDMpSU1skEV6mVW9SoRGKa8mBP7IJpbrNUZQd7wNAy0rB08Wvke/6Dht 1p9TQdzQFwtoKkASYuL8BAr/nxSb5q2IKm6gvwRNU/A+OJC0Xsd+dpqNAhhmo/kI/2Hr sqaa6qcHSekb4N5iMJ/at/Q51XuM86NLt+u03Kok0h41g6jBRWi7xezqqXdliCUgz+nq x5mElTegfl2oqIhwk1N4kXgORdbV90Ju8Fe4eTfJ4mmub2UaqCB6oI+yPTFncWvd5pqa zt5w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tizPwq9D5tHa8pSvJNpyQ2EcoXemAC90suerIgFYKbk=; b=GMsDdlO+Qi+yehSW34884kkky+PxeSdMM65lI1G/+dLZpZcR7R6DhjzYt9rBv1elJ7 bhubtdI7Vg1DsQbFr9BbqYhBMEWXhr/6Mjf2mlDsPSUowSi2iMKDs/nwIga5sBUtt/rh B5u9O21EUYUgWreRAXzNRkuypHdQUbE4AEgPZ1EFLNdw9W+xv6FeNDw6PmFnQxAxNwni He2tIMD0M8Io8F5dCYz25dpN0d4mZH3p8tFJY6z27R65PhYfYFAd4Nb4VXSv0cLa95RQ aS2rMkHthabgouJxGWHqrg4e5fro/1Xn4+zwi9nbsd3VkFiniXweRsuPLgTOojPNK/E+ gl7w== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukdin68V+U8kljaK6M3pjVvMR/G2MsBxxEsLOpgwbWztlfHOmHOV K41WZA66ec4nIcC8uBx8jJZVR0zv X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN4weIy+FbPQ7cZR/98wb3reyWUuEqZY+ZItu3l667Js1hK31WSGU4C8PexEJ5Y2HlvNGTA20g== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:2e0c:: with SMTP id u12mr9893369wmu.81.1546895206594; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 13:06:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from lolita.yourcompany.com (188.139.62.94.rev.vodafone.pt. [94.62.139.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v6sm42476235wro.57.2019.01.07.13.06.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 07 Jan 2019 13:06:45 -0800 (PST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> <877efgte1k.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> <219daf3c-1341-a2aa-6d0e-6388c4a3184b@yandex.ru> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 21:06:44 +0000 In-Reply-To: <219daf3c-1341-a2aa-6d0e-6388c4a3184b@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Mon, 7 Jan 2019 23:27:34 +0300") Message-ID: <87a7kcmb2z.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 07.01.2019 23:20, Deus Max wrote: >> The variable you pass is modified. > > The value. Not the variable. The latter keeps pointing at whatever > cons it's pointed before. What Dmitry said, let me just add this: what you call variables in Lisp are actually symbols that, among other things, may (or may not) have a "variable binding" (this is why you sometimes get "unbound" errors when you try to evaluate a symbol's variable value). They are indeed pointers. So if you read "destructive" as in "modify a variable's binding, i.e. the place where it points to" then no *function* can do that when passed the variable, because what it is receiving is the value pointed to by the symbol. A macro, like 'setq' or 'pop' can do that, because it "sees" the symbol. An alternative place to read on Common Lisp's DELETE is Common Lisp's hyperspec: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm The "may modify sequence" sentence figures prominently there. Emacs's cl-delete attempts to emulate Common Lisp's CL:DELETE. In Emacs it behaves, in this regard, no different from delete or delq. It is "potentially destructive" because it *may* modify the *structure* of the sequence *value* that you pass to it, be it a linked list or a vector: 1) If it is a linked list, it does the trick of making the pointer before the element you want to delete point to the element after it; 2) If it is a vector, it moves all the vector elements after the one you want to delete back one position and readjusts the vector size. If you notice, for situation 2 you could theoretically affect the variable binding directly. And curiously, this is where I found differences between Emacs's cl-delete and some CL's implementation of CL:DELETE. Emacs: (setq bla (vector 1 2 3 4)) (delete 1 bla) =3D> [2 3 4] bla =3D> [1 2 3 4] =20=20=20=20=20 (setq bla (vector 1 2 3 4)) (cl-delete 1 bla) =3D> [2 3 4] bla =3D> [1 2 3 4] Allegro common lisp and CMU common lisp: (setq bla (vector 1 2 3 4)) (delete 1 bla) =3D> #(2 3 4)=20 bla =3D> #(2 3 4) SBCL common lisp: (setq bla (vector 1 2 3 4)) (delete 1 bla) =3D> #(2 3 4) bla =3D> #(2 3 4 4) So, for vector sequences, CL:DELETE is apparently allowed to do whatever. Reading the hyperspec, it seems that all these results are correct, even SBCL's. Jo=C3=A3o From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: Deus Max Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 22:47:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.15469012015236 (code B ref 33998); Mon, 07 Jan 2019 22:47:01 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2019 22:46:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49061 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggdfM-0001MO-S8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 17:46:41 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:35679) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggdfK-0001MA-O6 for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 17:46:39 -0500 Received: from dellcorei5dias ([5.55.202.130]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MC8iq-1gXsEp3Gzo-008sZb; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 23:46:31 +0100 From: Deus Max References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> <877efgte1k.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> <219daf3c-1341-a2aa-6d0e-6388c4a3184b@yandex.ru> <87a7kcmb2z.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 00:46:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87a7kcmb2z.fsf@gmail.com> ("=?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?="'s message of "Mon, 07 Jan 2019 21:06:44 +0000") Message-ID: <87va30rsqj.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:RV2ECgozeLYB2QWxvwNOMy03GRG73LePget+Kjmue5vR4DdkzuA mgQHQsBKNWppXbsc4UiCmoEUjPVxnJMoPcqVMo4xcLJq4Rtt4DS4sEOMovH1wAfwJbkSnyg xDXKc9h0jTePiA5H9jxcxGtJRnjgyMtsaMHPtesp3AwthnkUuElIhtoKGXUHRInDY02sKpX hgxVkqw+5tbSdfJpSBRpg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:vc4o6SrZ4/k=:vC9ZXx8k7B8AheAKNDUftC 1/wV97q3mvRVHsczCHwSkhcaxhJcyP2Dxt4Rlb66dyONIs55gjvsWIb/nCwPRKwVXVgRT7TTT QnZNNpnFTUFAfFUZcwb1XYLP60Iz4vCXXWCk8L6YNTj3r+UVW37P20HrXtoMUeuSHwq9n8nMI jYB0aKwelJWOhp7OS026bi45a5YyfnLKPNrJ4eJTyT25Ro/UVhjBiYSzJOr+ekQhd8aslzQoe ecDSYHy3UcEgCOtC+28HUxVI7xhOrgrZgjr1JqDVIQmFSQbiJvp0+SmT1oIl0ufmSynkpSwEk q/7Pkxy2+Vjua761uUFbzi8rsZRFX12SCY6WycnywBdzsnOxPuPDdgCk0OujdH/dgKfiEVn2i ASabDfZInYqRtOG8D5vUOFNdNtipdoPQD4hlch9aDH5hpTzPoNug/aC4FNSTsn5ujVP848r4N OuQ0yjxaDjg1BjL5Wwnjrd5WsGknyNr4HDqmCjCDANmoUiWq7wcmpyrPigWVYzSMbA/vWFOeF JmZdVU0tQVIt7IwcyRUGGP1IsPz98D/ZAbq44QNPZyigIX39RR3aTYPntaWZ3X1ROckB/LdUM +nbdNr5G+h/RsogwEjNB32TuvJ7Z0W3l9G9ev1+balo0fqwje4F5voBFJ3zoJFVKqbnQ59nGE wUpP14F0eUSUa9jdUo2csOGneOJ1NX6uKsdxvFlMBT6+GWLRC0u0MZUoO4s6NTDs3TaDJcnGj jMstzQ24UvEU7k3T0115BIjwHWAh2TFCacFuFXQwQyn4MHM3eGz/OPtUJYTiJUvxwxjZD80SO Klvj2GaJtcl5oHrHcyqLZT0fjLwyLPwFV7muABUJVN1Zk81yhCkBfbUQk9CMNX2RjmM4Nr2Bs 57RhI86anPW5hJ8M1/qZv2wonQYw0msIR3e0+m0MhUjsIq8G9mwIkp1dWipFAQ X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Mon, Jan 07 2019, Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora wrote: > Emacs's cl-delete attempts to emulate Common Lisp's CL:DELETE. In Emacs > it behaves, in this regard, no different from delete or delq. It is > "potentially destructive" because it *may* modify the *structure* of the > sequence *value* that you pass to it, be it a linked list or a vector: > > 1) If it is a linked list, it does the trick of making the pointer > before the element you want to delete point to the element after it; > > 2) If it is a vector, it moves all the vector elements after the one you > want to delete back one position and readjusts the vector size. > > If you notice, for situation 2 you could theoretically affect the > variable binding directly. And curiously, this is where I found > differences between Emacs's cl-delete and some CL's implementation of > CL:DELETE. > > Emacs: > > (setq bla (vector 1 2 3 4)) > (delete 1 bla) =3D> [2 3 4] > bla =3D> [1 2 3 4] >=20=20=20=20=20=20 > (setq bla (vector 1 2 3 4)) > (cl-delete 1 bla) =3D> [2 3 4] > bla =3D> [1 2 3 4] > > Allegro common lisp and CMU common lisp: > > (setq bla (vector 1 2 3 4)) > (delete 1 bla) =3D> #(2 3 4)=20 > bla =3D> #(2 3 4) > > SBCL common lisp: > > (setq bla (vector 1 2 3 4)) > (delete 1 bla) =3D> #(2 3 4) > bla =3D> #(2 3 4 4) > > So, for vector sequences, CL:DELETE is apparently allowed to do > whatever. Reading the hyperspec, it seems that all these results are > correct, even SBCL's. > > Jo=C3=A3o Wow! thanks for clarifying the points. I had to fire up my SBCL to see it ! From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org, Deus Max Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.15469551388548 (code B ref 33998); Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:46:02 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2019 13:45:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49354 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggrhK-0002Do-BT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 08:45:38 -0500 Received: from mail-qk1-f176.google.com ([209.85.222.176]:40415) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggrhJ-0002DY-Nj for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 08:45:37 -0500 Received: by mail-qk1-f176.google.com with SMTP id y16so2302976qki.7 for <33998@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 05:45:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=A+eugamtz2S4WxzqtS8SIMd6zCBDcGmCyA1MqLwwSmA=; b=IGVrMlmP7+hc8m45yTpZBPvYgHJ+9D++ZuX+ODsvYdaNj7/ecPuL6iGpX6eWsVPxvt sk0EcCid4oSJQBwMBwrUuOev6dO9YOTxUjcfkxRQ1nqx70XwpQGD5MwkSfqgYwhUqwkw 8f/99i/kc6c8vApsPKT220+smKQoaehRK+hcq73FU9vKcsQHCe90bvWO4F+qatZ6V+Zk eXlrYkaJSH3ZmXgE9U9TbIAeAofNZGbIvu5ErsQLD5POIGPjt7H91Pu/5BwRDbzGTr5Y 7pbC/zmfau0oN6WSNrzYVw7No2VTq3KKtLg4+2b0f3N9M8wFVYwnw3fmGhuaDI2oL2sF i/kg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=A+eugamtz2S4WxzqtS8SIMd6zCBDcGmCyA1MqLwwSmA=; b=YuCHajIcTkLBom6wBjyIrlRuBmSQM54CsZcJt5YAHTM+24ZFLS2YwC/fh1QmGPXRyD 2FmbcmzBzN/gIK4wkKCeVYNQFVkUFwW5WNWDqerio2sOBU85nu03UQq5xUMmuzxeoe06 WavX5HCzO+o+AIBdCpOn0MfxGmLDmaui2GgW+J5YmwpC6000qM5AAW/WejSnT0m8h/wU FZTpvvYqrzNlvF7RB9YHziYILgUayHZBqEQ6pRNdO+aMcBG94R+E2USpQcx6zIu5HCY/ OMJif/C/t60+P7emjJyN4ZR1lxzJy1tt1fHQPrugB4DW478VCov/wgLNvtcrpk2rviH+ n2rw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukdvSqexC7ERWRDg3pNEq4FX+2/08u4smQ2/AervNhM6tCC5yndT udpqrhdnlzAJhzpu2RMbQukp2Ie9SWtUUK9vU6Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7JRySoVCL1HeBAyxxnt80e14BWVvcxgPqR6JCOK5CP4W1vu5yvQCBckLZowAxhaCzI01lNmcgs89iuqYLRlis= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:d804:: with SMTP id u4mr1606349qkf.322.1546955130989; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 05:45:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> <39367b1c-ea27-4627-99e3-eb7d0745c60f@default> In-Reply-To: <39367b1c-ea27-4627-99e3-eb7d0745c60f@default> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 13:45:19 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 6:14 PM Drew Adams wrote: > > > > > So, cumbersome as it is, you should always use: > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > (setq seq (cl-delete thing seq)) > > > > > > FWIW, this is not really true. > > > > > > `cl-delete' deletes THING from the > > > _value_ of SEQ. You might or you > > > might not want variable SEQ to have > > > the updated value. > > > > But this is what he wanted, so what's > > the point in making this more confusing > > than it needs to be? > > It's enough to suggest that he might want > to do that, and point to the manual for > explanation. It's the "always" that's > misleading. Actually, as I've subsequently demonstrated the leeway given to cl-delete by the CL spec is such that it is quite a good idea to *always* use the (setq SEQ (cl-delete THING SEQ)) idiom, because you have no control on what cl-delete does with SEQ. You might indeed not want it changed but it may change, and not in ways you can predict. Jo=C3=A3o From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 08 12:51:54 2019 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2019 17:51:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50218 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggvXe-0008WR-EF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 12:51:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46662) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggvXa-0008W9-H4 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 12:51:53 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ggvXH-0007gj-Hm for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 12:51:33 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35926) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ggvXD-0007bW-Un for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 12:51:29 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ggvXC-00043P-SS for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 12:51:26 -0500 Subject: control message for bug 33998 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.99.98) Message-Id: From: Glenn Morris Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 12:51:26 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:470:142:3::e X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) severity 33998 minor tag 33998 notabug close 33998 From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 18:23:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org, Deus Max Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.154697177811193 (code B ref 33998); Tue, 08 Jan 2019 18:23:01 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2019 18:22:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50237 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggw1h-0002uS-Vm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:22:58 -0500 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:50238) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggw1g-0002uD-O9 for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:22:57 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id x08IE5tv046484; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 18:22:51 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=ldU+hj/s86ynK4FUm65Urz3ZZeLlc2Z+VwP8RgTwyU4=; b=G5CKyEKB/3rnCyN/BkDVeI4VUDn9PfOuDaNw5dl2hhwCRtk5L7uqYtGpLqAljWDYJEjW 9UlmWMmDxgdOVsUXMYaNcScmEeKYeSuy1sEjHq55v9FKfnCrtvs2gy6t9j3hkyhL5g1p lDuauA8y1wgOWk44OGgu7tjO/Fl9gAkOD7srUnNNRTHtpU/HG6jeIjA42heLB9bLthBk c/j//9CJny9cb4rc7jB0d96x1RZpjhBPBUbBAqegxDJoM2I88Te/+vAE5Tuc9v/kEDmu s7pUmzOsei6PM8z9sGvUb6PtdgdkqooA1XymSD2WuoYaGVM5HhF/+sPdQcrGQeOQ5zy4 eQ== Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ptm0u58n5-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 08 Jan 2019 18:22:50 +0000 Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x08IMj3B030599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 Jan 2019 18:22:45 GMT Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x08IMhQv001532; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 18:22:43 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 10:22:42 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> <39367b1c-ea27-4627-99e3-eb7d0745c60f@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4783.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9130 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=385 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1901080146 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > > > So, cumbersome as it is, you should always use: > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > (setq seq (cl-delete thing seq)) > > > > > > > > FWIW, this is not really true. > > > > > > > > `cl-delete' deletes THING from the > > > > _value_ of SEQ. You might or you > > > > might not want variable SEQ to have > > > > the updated value. > > > > > > But this is what he wanted, so what's > > > the point in making this more confusing > > > than it needs to be? > > > > It's enough to suggest that he might want > > to do that, and point to the manual for > > explanation. It's the "always" that's > > misleading. >=20 > Actually, as I've subsequently demonstrated > the leeway given to cl-delete by the CL spec > is such that it is quite a good idea to *always* > use the (setq SEQ (cl-delete THING SEQ)) idiom, > because you have no control on what cl-delete > does with SEQ. You might indeed not want it > changed but it may change, and not in ways > you can predict. No. This has nothing to do with CL or the CL spec or the implementation of `cl-delete'. Again, you should set the variable to the value returned by `cl-delete' only if that's what you want - only if you want the variable to point to the result of the operation instead of what it pointed to previously. This is so, regardless of what the result of that operation might be - regardless of how `cl-delete' is implemented or even what it might do. It's about the difference between a variable and its value. `cl-delete' can only act on the value, not on the variable (it never sees the variable). Only other code can decide whether the variable should be set to the return value of `cl-delete'. If yes, then `setq'; if no, then no `set'`. Pretty simple, really. From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 18:32:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug To: Drew Adams Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org, Deus Max Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.154697229612309 (code B ref 33998); Tue, 08 Jan 2019 18:32:01 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2019 18:31:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50243 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggwA3-0003CS-So for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:31:36 -0500 Received: from mail-qk1-f179.google.com ([209.85.222.179]:46855) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggwA2-0003CD-28 for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:31:34 -0500 Received: by mail-qk1-f179.google.com with SMTP id q1so2874780qkf.13 for <33998@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 10:31:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wNUOvOwenLFmGDIbapU0MsZG38ZtU8PRkbbBHMxNcPI=; b=SXeiv6aFINA7epIJjTzu0NBjfpLjjPGQNbN1J/8MLJ0XNm6HkufOT07BVXqKlGwfy4 FWoBA0eMEy9Jc/jFtDeEeGsEc9/xfHUgl3ucpvZJCbWWzR7gTgJdURw/Ko5WGjvK7p6M qYmV8wvVxQjo66454YoR/KwLm1813lgFAkHt56KrMpWrv10Ids2jtwzEl7cU83ueJzxw UxoRsb08OQVNsntKfErhz1UwpqjOpDe+w3y9lg9lWQUnSeJpZm/kC5la2VtG5Zl3JDo8 ra0zD/LVgVHyB05mdBJ0YqfWo86V0ZVBpmwDfe6GAL42Pf6DleH3rsfINYlv9vJv1sef Id/g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wNUOvOwenLFmGDIbapU0MsZG38ZtU8PRkbbBHMxNcPI=; b=ajWmBgWlxOo9hcvwL5cenx+CE1TLWXyaDlsfZ0BcG2iYt7+PMy2jwmN+iqxj4cw3GF v4geO7hoQKgoKAYUGv3rdVuEakDONuQkSgSHvEfnBgNteQXrbplzg0AwK/svfNY8qjSP xxWmrI0afdfi7Q5FZ3vJ9ThkMtYuc2xNGx9XQEveUIWhQbjoRkaJ+XpsuhgLu//YJQBa bbX9kHGEpSnNjKVsZ/vRVM/2CXNd9KDwWeXKgOdWfgXSLqILUFKuzmEuiSZ91wVHnifY 4dwadMET1mO37ItFdgB3gT/9JaEZishO876byOKPLt9MZxqfvh8OzKRHRT0PGq31Ljsb aj1A== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcLwue9r2vEywODEqNf6lZ69HTkAd8yZoNnCxq3ZwTwRlG9AEO6 K2AQk8K8i+w7IK2lVnhja2+/DbkzTJV/pSqL7Lo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN5HeFW7/jRF413C5yP2tdtdKREpQcSGOVrZB6o073g1xmAXi8w0pZACXn3IXYBMurdlroUGqjAa/fWzwM/WyvU= X-Received: by 2002:a37:553:: with SMTP id 80mr2687092qkf.200.1546972288486; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 10:31:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> <39367b1c-ea27-4627-99e3-eb7d0745c60f@default> In-Reply-To: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 18:31:17 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 6:22 PM Drew Adams wrote: > Again, you should set the variable to the value > returned by `cl-delete' only if that's what you > want OK. Say you don't. Say you don't SETQ the variable to the return value. What do you expect to be left with in the value bound to the SEQ symbol? > Pretty simple, really. Then answer the pretty simple question above. Jo=C3=A3o From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 18:47:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org, Deus Max Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.154697316213702 (code B ref 33998); Tue, 08 Jan 2019 18:47:01 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2019 18:46:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50248 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggwO2-0003Yt-5O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:46:02 -0500 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:44800) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggwNz-0003YM-Ou for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:46:00 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id x08Ig7CV069827; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 18:45:53 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=w8FyaK0XXgIJ0idZIuD9dMUOiDwenneRh/OirCmoN6U=; b=sV1EAgqE2HjcRmdLrvxfHvG2RmDdMD20Ica4S4QZ5ganXwIlmoQZUspStNloLaMbNVaR IOgy42r1h8IVb3/f0Cup86IqqMZELoltmdc4bMoLPwwIh144LfFQblrmsQ0ZwX+wkRrA jZmUpkaiPRENBlrpnrGQiP3vBKOdwvMPhzyInRJfAl1n4JskLvHd55oSijD10Pagr+rb sgcMFqlvCheKm986Sh3depXJFzoa2Mdjmrv0eZ7epTAFEoEH9w4ARMHylEZeeg66hplc gpAVLKa3A7hRcUNCGt/2ADxTD3usU/3+02/eDdPisft52Q4IUSFrJootO0cYjdwb+Ty6 kw== Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ptm0u5ccg-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 08 Jan 2019 18:45:53 +0000 Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x08Ijqss016541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 Jan 2019 18:45:52 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x08IjpFj013465; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 18:45:51 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 10:45:50 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> <39367b1c-ea27-4627-99e3-eb7d0745c60f@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4783.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9130 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=574 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1901080149 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Again, you should set the variable to the value > > returned by `cl-delete' only if that's what you > > want >=20 > OK. Say you don't. Say you don't SETQ the variable > to the return value. What do you expect to be left > with in the value bound to the SEQ symbol? >=20 > > Pretty simple, really. >=20 > Then answer the pretty simple question above. Without setting variable `seq' (i.e., without the `setq'), that variable is still bound to whatever it was bound to prior to your invoking `(cl-delete thing seq)'. Presumably it was bound to a cons. It is still bound to that cons - the same (`eq') cons. `cl-delete' is not passed the variable. It is passed only its value. It can only act on that value. It can act on that cons. A function can change the car or cdr of a cons. A function cannot change which cons some variable points to, unless the function has access to that variable (not just its value). Whether the car or cdr of the cons passed to `cl-delete' is redirected, that has no effect on which cons is the value of variable `seq'. From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 18:58:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug To: Drew Adams Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org, Deus Max Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.154697385514978 (code B ref 33998); Tue, 08 Jan 2019 18:58:01 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2019 18:57:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50253 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggwZD-0003tV-AD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:57:35 -0500 Received: from mail-qt1-f175.google.com ([209.85.160.175]:39344) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggwZ8-0003tD-81 for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:57:30 -0500 Received: by mail-qt1-f175.google.com with SMTP id u47so5576507qtj.6 for <33998@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 10:57:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Gv48RKGf7OPlel8pv6NIaShvuLExWBV5yDtPEP4rX1M=; b=XtMaU6Iut3ACyzcq8ZGSKlnkBtHCjiJou9IGn5COH15iJjWm3WnxnNfIXHhtf+y2uZ KWLzY/y3O1VoSzj1o8XCL1bzUetyXMk6uVRsSn2zygw9ZzZ7wSjU+65wokN4VanRX6EI 3lLiveH5YXyippmWEHVMG3+xMTdglEjkz0Z+zEh8JHTGCBUqK5SZP2DonnSjNmQy1Vlw BGkSVjqpzkNbIDh3EDzROHsGYfNLU3itMAao6g3PWZOPjMNyiBmp2MlXPczXR+0FFtEu nGQr51FWNPsbhpYQKG4Upbik7oR2D+BofJ3/ieHIWif0p+1+2lebMUejKpCmkUFr8b3u bsbQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Gv48RKGf7OPlel8pv6NIaShvuLExWBV5yDtPEP4rX1M=; b=KwttyW48TZCCLWBSrS3TM5kh0pYvkcLpoyDH6yD4/U4JewHEC9Qta0IiA2Jw3gJyaI K23JzyuX1YtcyWyI1Cb+jeO73ZfPYtKRCm53lYd1ZaY3fghy6NpC5SdMEzgZT2Y8ex07 aSghSxRfm9QtncC+yC/UOLnjus4jVKWTYY0O9cno1AQJ7FA3Ugd04o3mn04Qa5bH01e5 nP2efOJy1xkTYnjRoitjSuAJzvCekjv562wflBrIfgLl8Y0aiTTBb9Mc+yVKgKkKR7oF xq3vchBt+cOAm5TgokvRCl/5hvsnLU5hk5ZX2/Zy6vYzaGwfp5+gA0L3VS1NUWkB68pk 8XXA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukctDi2ippkjKT2mGoqhw1wubMr4NxQ2IEvQFym5y93Z4RakeqPT Td3l1WRXd8pwtmAfQr09WhooesstxlAyJO9zNIY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN5HV7zsD8NuxCzs0V2D/S5sYmLxPOQTpvM9KBvkyNH6E+EcGdtLXUOEM7qJLmtrWFCX5Dvyybn5/P3ycu4v2SQ= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3e91:: with SMTP id y17mr2913799qtf.390.1546973843937; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 10:57:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> <39367b1c-ea27-4627-99e3-eb7d0745c60f@default> In-Reply-To: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 18:57:12 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 6:46 PM Drew Adams wrote: > > > > Again, you should set the variable to the value > > > returned by `cl-delete' only if that's what you > > > want > > > > OK. Say you don't. Say you don't SETQ the variable > > to the return value. What do you expect to be left > > with in the value bound to the SEQ symbol? > > > > > Pretty simple, really. > > > > Then answer the pretty simple question above. > > Without setting variable `seq' (i.e., without > the `setq'), that variable is still bound to > whatever it was bound to prior to your invoking > `(cl-delete thing seq)'. Presumably it was > bound to a cons. It could have been bound to a vector. cl-delete (as delq, delete) accepts sequences. And contrary to those two, it makes no guarantees as to how it potentially destroys the original sequence. So unless you're relying on a particular implementation, relying on SEQ after calling cl-delete on it is a bad, bad idea. So yes, always (setq SEQ (cl-delete THING SEQ)). With the extraordinary exception that you're leaving the scope where SEQ is visible. Then you can bypass it. Jo=C3=A3o From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 19:08:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org, Deus Max Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.154697443415944 (code B ref 33998); Tue, 08 Jan 2019 19:08:02 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2019 19:07:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50258 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggwiY-000496-CL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 14:07:14 -0500 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:45914) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggwiV-00048r-Rh for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 14:07:12 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id x08J4GQF038941; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 19:07:05 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=f6H5huILAp2QHwri4LtKZJ92TvQPTjIk0u8cSggkofg=; b=H/ldo5saDPWp34qdCf7ztrhm0NPLyMxMDQ9jx/Gd2/ZwZbW/T+/9PUAzLWst553XUO4Z 22pw47yX8qU2HkBPZqUhnW/2dp9ZlZDWsSRy0ap8Sa8AXoEAv4G1Ae4A6KQ8jzD8I/op TBfaTbOHVPdCBicYUa2UT4MDshlZV8xFpwK4EhsoBoStaGm4y9LS4LnF/CGl2Uyr9Bl3 EVMOWccWLdyEotNfwOMJvH8hTMzdIlbVhZB8lmS255w0rxqksTAEs9T4mUE98PHFS+yE CH9/O0sBsAae7SCzJAa9eoLNdEjc8Cef9T9AsGNLvAfjkMNqqy8DUZf/58xDfHWkYCU8 Qw== Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ptj3dwmug-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 08 Jan 2019 19:07:05 +0000 Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x08J741J020059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 Jan 2019 19:07:05 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x08J746j026749; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 19:07:04 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 11:07:03 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> <39367b1c-ea27-4627-99e3-eb7d0745c60f@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4783.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9130 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=674 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1901080151 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Without setting variable `seq' (i.e., without > > the `setq'), that variable is still bound to > > whatever it was bound to prior to your invoking > > `(cl-delete thing seq)'. Presumably it was > > bound to a cons. >=20 > It could have been bound to a vector. cl-delete (as delq, delete) > accepts sequences. And contrary to those two, it makes > no guarantees as to how it potentially destroys the original > sequence. So unless you're relying on a particular > implementation, relying on SEQ after calling cl-delete on it > is a bad, bad idea. >=20 > So yes, always (setq SEQ (cl-delete THING SEQ)). With > the extraordinary exception that you're leaving the scope > where SEQ is visible. Then you can bypass it. I'm repeating myself, so I'll stop here. You are _not_ "calling cl-delete on it", where "it" is the variable SEQ. You are calling the function on its value, whether that value is a vector, a list or any other kind of sequence. `cl-delete' never sees, smells, or hears the variable. It all depends what a user intends by "relying on SEQ". If you ALWAYS mean relying on its value to be what `cl-delete' returns then sure, clearly you must ALWAYS set it to that return value. If in some case you instead mean relying on it not to be affected by `cl-delete' then you won't want to assign it to the result of invoking `cl-delete'. It's not about implementation of `cl-delete'. It's not about the type of sequence you pass it. It's about a variable being something different from its value. From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 21:39:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug To: Drew Adams Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org, Deus Max Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.154698351013670 (code B ref 33998); Tue, 08 Jan 2019 21:39:02 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2019 21:38:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50584 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggz4u-0003YO-OZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 16:38:30 -0500 Received: from mail-wm1-f43.google.com ([209.85.128.43]:37834) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ggz4r-0003Y4-VQ for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 16:38:26 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-f43.google.com with SMTP id g67so5949402wmd.2 for <33998@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:38:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4LsXwQDo0lpTYVM3naRRU0pkVfAAThUigZ1I+v0W9FM=; b=dFDZK/erduwHcO9F2yZKwG7Xr4sL+oT2wvY/+hne1HZN3mKMoiGC36N1wKuttiHAHr 7MxRvV3qLEpfL8NbR6XjYgy7GmQQxNyxIUfronOtxp3hFhwwn5rqhkxLigBWUZn6lspv 8ZENSLxMjK9741NZEwrTSlrQnGFQf9MS8p4BMzajpFlQeCZ/ucAZ0XtvkRMQ8KwLI1jJ KFo27YRjTKrxkwGulRvy4BKAQF2S75PXpYHqF3G/JJtloG88fs50jI0NDEZRUqCDDqRQ 474pOf/LrM4sNlDzWZCs44nyTnOJ8J2Fqrt/VDcFyi1WWLtmtjjiHF1v3he4ue1m14dM u7tw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4LsXwQDo0lpTYVM3naRRU0pkVfAAThUigZ1I+v0W9FM=; b=OVTzF7+D8QnslucZ+1/peHDwsaN+mbp9RPy510VlnlBn0nGe7Xq6plq+NkjUQNB0DI PgGhZ1Ic97uGRgBsxxixUgtRMTQWIWOr+Jg9ME/f9jQE3mMLd9osaVgahnolb635E6Gz xDtgBH3EWWwqbbxdC7NnMdypmilZ3vXXFlgf0yDpI4H5h6Yvwlh/FlWTynGJBpesNlSz c06RMJa6amsTSL1QY+UC249l0UktxtHuGUQFeJCcFp/DNHcylA5cUOauaetX92LHmIIS Un2r0/jzsFf0yW5WeFn5ji0EmSxay2+X0wZmyBsjFHss2a8DmMYTXtsftltQgSeZNqxq 62Ww== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukfpSzK0JibMgdzUxmkvt4xQZd7R11ZyA7NafbCsCP1eUIFYHQ5z bsUu0yxxBfdbDBXwSxBJyB5KYcFb X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6H9nsmK53KwpXZqEZaNjIR+MHOi4gzQCvicusVGIr6sUKE5goLg3sAJIYtgYd9JaQe0iM8vQ== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:be11:: with SMTP id o17mr2947611wmf.111.1546983499801; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:38:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from lolita.yourcompany.com (188.139.62.94.rev.vodafone.pt. [94.62.139.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x20sm14360689wme.6.2019.01.08.13.38.18 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:38:18 -0800 (PST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 8 Jan 2019 11:07:03 -0800 (PST)") References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> <39367b1c-ea27-4627-99e3-eb7d0745c60f@default> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 21:38:17 +0000 Message-ID: <87muoaltiu.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) Drew Adams writes: > It's not about implementation of `cl-delete'. It's > not about the type of sequence you pass it. It's > about a variable being something different from its > value. Drew, it is you who are missing something basic here: (defun mistery (thing seq) (let ((head (elt seq 0))) (cl-delete thing seq) (eq head (elt seq 0)))) Today, in Emacs this always returns t, for every THING and sequence SEQ you can think of (in fact, for vectors, cl-delete delegates to cl-remove). This is perfectly CL-compliant. But a future, different, also perfectly CL-compliant, implementation of cl-delete, might very well make this function return nil. In fact, if you port this code to SBCL or Allegro CL by changing 'cl-delete' to 'cl:delete' (mistery 1 (list 1 2 3 4)) ;; =3D> t (mistery 1 (vector 1 2 3 4)) ;; =3D> nil So again, for the nth time, it's a bad idea to rely on SEQ after calling 'cl-delete'. Jo=C3=A3o From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:49:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33998: 27.0.50; cl-delete does not delete the first list element Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 01:31:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Cc: 33998@debbugs.gnu.org, Deus Max Received: via spool by 33998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33998.15469974223334 (code B ref 33998); Wed, 09 Jan 2019 01:31:02 +0000 Received: (at 33998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jan 2019 01:30:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50756 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gh2hK-0000rF-9L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 20:30:22 -0500 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:46490) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gh2hH-0000h2-QV for 33998@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 20:30:20 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id x091OTim122555; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 01:30:13 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=Rb90/YJOdOUc9K8RQWmM5GTLsCzQ1W8URhY2DSVjwHQ=; b=k677TXc2iQfMf9qKFA6lCq1AOE6fWRT2EI1InKDVzNbSfnGIsqEuHFiupVDrOVwBJmCt fqN9tJjuEIT9RS+sf76vmjmOEMe9yyxUrMAeFO4933RKwVRUTVEv9r6fO5D2NC4wyGah FHJHLCcH+Ll5jSh/e0bNvpkvZNWpi3jZiWMkA8K7pZjpxeBUkjDcl8nBWWXK8UADCv7f xdSblmtF3F+DoVpgBZA1l0lDUeyPLWUwLbtcOhRDuo/e5aNGyITvQQihSgyAP3XZcR2L f8GrAG4XnphAbeJT9UX896vrp4P0qXgGmYpgCLG1eXUhqCJCOwzcOPHVjP8AgTy1E9Jq gA== Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ptj3dy0n5-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 09 Jan 2019 01:30:13 +0000 Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x091UBSZ023071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 Jan 2019 01:30:12 GMT Received: from abhmp0009.oracle.com (abhmp0009.oracle.com [141.146.116.15]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x091UBGH007636; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 01:30:11 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <28b51c37-42c5-4196-b970-03ed8e55ce49@default> Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 17:30:10 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87muodud4d.fsf@aia00054aia.gr> <39367b1c-ea27-4627-99e3-eb7d0745c60f@default> <87muoaltiu.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87muoaltiu.fsf@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4783.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9130 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=895 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1901090008 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > It's not about implementation of `cl-delete'. It's > > not about the type of sequence you pass it. It's > > about a variable being something different from its > > value. >=20 > Drew, it is you who are missing something basic here: >=20 > (defun mistery (thing seq) > (let ((head (elt seq 0))) > (cl-delete thing seq) > (eq head (elt seq 0)))) >=20 > Today, in Emacs this always returns t, for every THING and sequence SEQ > you can think of (in fact, for vectors, cl-delete delegates to cl-remove)= . > This is perfectly CL-compliant. But a future, different, also perfectly > CL-compliant, implementation of cl-delete, might very well make this > function return nil. In fact, if you port this code to SBCL or Allegro > CL by changing 'cl-delete' to 'cl:delete' >=20 > (mistery 1 (list 1 2 3 4)) ;; =3D> t > (mistery 1 (vector 1 2 3 4)) ;; =3D> nil Your example has no bearing on our discussion, AFAICT. What is passed to your function are two values - no variables. Again, `cl-delete' sees only a sequence value, not any _variable_ that might have that sequence as its variable. And yes, that's by design. `cl-delete' can change the elements of a sequence (a value), but it cannot change the value of a variable. That's not its job. > So again, for the nth time, it's a bad idea to rely on SEQ after calling > 'cl-delete'. Again, you are confusing `SEQ' the variable with its value. There is no such general rule with "always" as part of it. Not in Lisp, there ain't. If that were not the case then you would be in effect claiming (and perhaps you are explicitly claiming) that CL's definition of `delete' is a bad one, misguided, since it applies only to a sequence and not to any variable that might have that sequence as its value. Contrast Lisp functions such as `delete' and `nconc' to a Lisp function such as `add-to-list' or to a special form (or macro) such as `push'. The latter act on a _variable_ (possibly a generalized variable - a place). `delete', `nconc' etc. do NOT act on a variable. If you really believe "always" to apply then you had better toss all of the functions that possibly modify values, replacing them with only macros or special forms that (like `push') set a variable (place) to its modified value or to functions that (like `add-to-list') accept a variable (symbol) as argument and set it to its modified value. Such things are available in Lisp, and you can define more such. But Lisp doesn't _limit_ itself to such things - IOW, Lisp does NOT say "always". Why? For the reasons I gave - sometimes you don't want to update a variable. IOW, "always" is not always the case - it just isn't. I already said I'd stop. I hope that's the case now, at least. Perhaps we can agree to disagree: you say "always"; I say "often". You (apparently) think there's no reason for a function such as `cl-delete', and that it would be better for Lisp itself to enforce your "always" rule, using either a macro or a function that takes a symbol argument rather than just a value. Any programmer can certainly do that. Lisp offers both possibilities.