From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 03 10:44:14 2018 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2018 15:44:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59329 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqOG-00060s-FH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:44:14 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45388) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqOA-000608-RY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:44:07 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqO4-0006oV-5n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:43:57 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:60692) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqO4-0006oL-37 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:43:56 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54972) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqO2-0000X3-IH for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:43:55 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqO1-0006mT-HK for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:43:54 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:56965) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqNx-0006jf-6H; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:43:49 -0500 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=55134 helo=gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqNw-00073k-SE; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:43:49 -0500 From: =?UTF-8?q?Ludovic=20Court=C3=A8s?= To: guix-patches@gnu.org Subject: [PATCH 0/3] Defaulting to ci.guix.info (aka. berlin.guixsd.org) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 16:43:35 +0100 Message-Id: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.19.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, =?UTF-8?q?Ludovic=20Court=C3=A8s?= X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello Guix! These patches (actually the last one) switch Guix to default to for substitutes, in preparation for the upcoming 0.16.0 release (hopefully this week!). Rationale: • berlin.guixsd.org generally performs better than hydra.gnu.org; • berlin supports x86, ARMv7, and AArch64 (hydra lacks AArch64); • berlin has much more storage space than hydra; • berlin runs Cuirass on GuixSD, so software-wise, it corresponds to what we want to push; Cuirass still has limitations in some ways compared to Hydra, but we’re getting there, and hydra.gnu.org is still up and running so we can still use it, e.g., to track build progress until Cuirass is as convenient. For the domain name I initially wanted “ci.guix.gnu.org” but we failed to set that up. Oh well, I think that’s OK. This change modifies the manual. Translations will thus be stale; Julien, do you think it’d be reasonable to push a new pre-release to the Translation Project? Or should be just live with the slight inaccuracy? Thanks, Ludo’. Ludovic Courtès (3): etc: Add "ci.guix.info.pub" public key file. Remove most references to hydra.gnu.org. build: Default to https://ci.guix.info for substitutes. Makefile.am | 5 +- build-aux/check-available-binaries.scm | 4 +- .../check-final-inputs-self-contained.scm | 2 +- config-daemon.ac | 10 +-- doc/contributing.texi | 2 +- doc/guix.texi | 67 +++++++++---------- etc/substitutes/ci.guix.info.pub | 1 + gnu/services/base.scm | 4 +- gnu/system/install.scm | 2 +- guix/scripts/build.scm | 2 +- guix/scripts/size.scm | 2 +- guix/scripts/substitute.scm | 2 +- guix/self.scm | 3 + guix/store.scm | 2 +- 14 files changed, 51 insertions(+), 57 deletions(-) create mode 120000 etc/substitutes/ci.guix.info.pub -- 2.19.2 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 03 10:54:08 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2018 15:54:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59340 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqXq-0006HK-Bp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:54:07 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49025) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqXl-0006Gt-R5 for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:54:01 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqXe-0008Qc-BJ for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:53:52 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:57148) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqXa-0008NP-KB; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:53:46 -0500 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=55142 helo=gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqXa-0007yI-Be; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:53:46 -0500 From: =?UTF-8?q?Ludovic=20Court=C3=A8s?= To: 33600@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: [PATCH 3/3] build: Default to https://ci.guix.info for substitutes. Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 16:53:35 +0100 Message-Id: <20181203155335.10629-3-ludo@gnu.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.19.2 In-Reply-To: <20181203155335.10629-1-ludo@gnu.org> References: <20181203155335.10629-1-ludo@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, =?UTF-8?q?Ludovic=20Court=C3=A8s?= X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * config-daemon.ac (guix_substitute_urls): Always default to "https://ci.guix.info". * doc/guix.texi (SUBSTITUTE-SERVER): Switch to ci.guix.info. * guix/scripts/build.scm (%default-log-urls): Likewise. * guix/scripts/substitute.scm (%default-substitute-urls): Likewise. * guix/store.scm (%default-substitute-urls): Likewise. --- config-daemon.ac | 10 +--------- doc/guix.texi | 13 ++++--------- guix/scripts/build.scm | 2 +- guix/scripts/substitute.scm | 2 +- guix/store.scm | 2 +- 5 files changed, 8 insertions(+), 21 deletions(-) diff --git a/config-daemon.ac b/config-daemon.ac index aac46817f5..e5b0ee082c 100644 --- a/config-daemon.ac +++ b/config-daemon.ac @@ -120,15 +120,7 @@ if test "x$guix_build_daemon" = "xyes"; then dnl Determine the appropriate default list of substitute URLs (GnuTLS dnl is required so we can default to 'https'.) - case "x$host_cpu" in - xaarch64) - # Currently only berlin.guixsd.org provides aarch64 binaries. - guix_substitute_urls="https://berlin.guixsd.org" - ;; - *) - guix_substitute_urls="https://mirror.hydra.gnu.org" - ;; - esac + guix_substitute_urls="https://ci.guix.info" AC_MSG_CHECKING([for default substitute URLs]) AC_MSG_RESULT([$guix_substitute_urls]) diff --git a/doc/guix.texi b/doc/guix.texi index d96c35eace..a5ae1c65e6 100644 --- a/doc/guix.texi +++ b/doc/guix.texi @@ -14,7 +14,7 @@ @set KEY-SERVER pool.sks-keyservers.net @c The official substitute server used by default. -@set SUBSTITUTE-SERVER ci.guix.info +@set SUBSTITUTE-SERVER mirror.hydra.gnu.org @copying Copyright @copyright{} 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 Ludovic Courtès@* @@ -2374,14 +2374,9 @@ Then, you can run something like this: @end example @quotation Note -Similarly, the @file{berlin.guixsd.org.pub} file contains the public key -for the project's new build farm, reachable at -@indicateurl{https://berlin.guixsd.org}. - -As of this writing @code{berlin.guixsd.org} is being upgraded so it can -better scale up, but you might want to give it a try. It is backed by -20 x86_64/i686 build nodes and may be able to provide substitutes more -quickly than @code{mirror.hydra.gnu.org}. +Similarly, the @file{hydra.gnu.org.pub} file contains the public key +of an independent build farm also run by the project, reachable at +@indicateurl{https://mirror.hydra.gnu.org}. @end quotation Once this is in place, the output of a command like @code{guix build} diff --git a/guix/scripts/build.scm b/guix/scripts/build.scm index 5532c65eb6..0b7da3189e 100644 --- a/guix/scripts/build.scm +++ b/guix/scripts/build.scm @@ -65,7 +65,7 @@ (define %default-log-urls ;; Default base URLs for build logs. - '("http://hydra.gnu.org/log")) + '("http://ci.guix.info/log")) ;; XXX: The following procedure cannot be in (guix store) because of the ;; dependency on (guix derivations). diff --git a/guix/scripts/substitute.scm b/guix/scripts/substitute.scm index eb82224016..d6dc9b6448 100755 --- a/guix/scripts/substitute.scm +++ b/guix/scripts/substitute.scm @@ -1052,7 +1052,7 @@ found." (#f ;; This can only happen when this script is not invoked by the ;; daemon. - '("http://hydra.gnu.org")))) + '("http://ci.guix.info")))) (define substitute-urls ;; List of substitute URLs. diff --git a/guix/store.scm b/guix/store.scm index 9dc651b26c..509fd4def6 100644 --- a/guix/store.scm +++ b/guix/store.scm @@ -693,7 +693,7 @@ encoding conversion errors." (map (if (false-if-exception (resolve-interface '(gnutls))) (cut string-append "https://" <>) (cut string-append "http://" <>)) - '("mirror.hydra.gnu.org"))) + '("ci.guix.info"))) (define* (set-build-options server #:key keep-failed? keep-going? fallback? -- 2.19.2 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 03 10:54:10 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2018 15:54:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59342 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqXw-0006Hp-2K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:54:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49049) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqXn-0006Gv-8s for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:54:03 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqXg-0008Rz-As for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:53:54 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:57146) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqXY-0008Lw-WE; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:53:45 -0500 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=55142 helo=gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqXY-0007yI-K9; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:53:44 -0500 From: =?UTF-8?q?Ludovic=20Court=C3=A8s?= To: 33600@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: [PATCH 1/3] etc: Add "ci.guix.info.pub" public key file. Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 16:53:33 +0100 Message-Id: <20181203155335.10629-1-ludo@gnu.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.19.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, =?UTF-8?q?Ludovic=20Court=C3=A8s?= X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) * etc/substitutes/ci.guix.info.pub: New file. * Makefile.am (dist_pkgdata_DATA): Add it. * guix/self.scm (miscellaneous-files): Add "share/guix/ci.guix.info.pub". --- Makefile.am | 3 ++- etc/substitutes/ci.guix.info.pub | 1 + guix/self.scm | 3 +++ 3 files changed, 6 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) create mode 120000 etc/substitutes/ci.guix.info.pub diff --git a/Makefile.am b/Makefile.am index 32cebd5917..6803666a57 100644 --- a/Makefile.am +++ b/Makefile.am @@ -459,7 +459,8 @@ check-system: $(GOBJECTS) # Public key used to sign substitutes from hydra.gnu.org & co. dist_pkgdata_DATA = \ etc/substitutes/hydra.gnu.org.pub \ - etc/substitutes/berlin.guixsd.org.pub + etc/substitutes/berlin.guixsd.org.pub \ + etc/substitutes/ci.guix.info.pub # Bash completion file. dist_bashcompletion_DATA = etc/completion/bash/guix \ diff --git a/etc/substitutes/ci.guix.info.pub b/etc/substitutes/ci.guix.info.pub new file mode 120000 index 0000000000..b1d1e4d763 --- /dev/null +++ b/etc/substitutes/ci.guix.info.pub @@ -0,0 +1 @@ +berlin.guixsd.org.pub \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/guix/self.scm b/guix/self.scm index 8476c422ec..f2db3dbf52 100644 --- a/guix/self.scm +++ b/guix/self.scm @@ -428,6 +428,9 @@ load path." ,(file-append* source "/etc/substitutes/hydra.gnu.org.pub")) ("share/guix/berlin.guixsd.org.pub" + ,(file-append* source + "/etc/substitutes/berlin.guixsd.org.pub")) + ("share/guix/ci.guix.info.pub" ;alias ,(file-append* source "/etc/substitutes/berlin.guixsd.org.pub"))))) (define* (whole-package name modules dependencies -- 2.19.2 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 03 10:54:15 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2018 15:54:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59344 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqXy-0006Hy-3s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:54:14 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49053) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqXn-0006Gx-V9 for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:54:07 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqXe-0008Qp-GZ for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:53:54 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:57147) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqXZ-0008Mh-Tn; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:53:45 -0500 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=55142 helo=gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqXZ-0007yI-E3; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:53:45 -0500 From: =?UTF-8?q?Ludovic=20Court=C3=A8s?= To: 33600@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: [PATCH 2/3] Remove most references to hydra.gnu.org. Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 16:53:34 +0100 Message-Id: <20181203155335.10629-2-ludo@gnu.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.19.2 In-Reply-To: <20181203155335.10629-1-ludo@gnu.org> References: <20181203155335.10629-1-ludo@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, =?UTF-8?q?Ludovic=20Court=C3=A8s?= X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Makefile.am (assert-binaries-available): Don't mention hydra.gnu.org in comment. * build-aux/check-available-binaries.scm: Likewise. * build-aux/check-final-inputs-self-contained.scm: Likewise. * doc/guix.texi (SUBSTITUTE-SERVER): New variable. Use it throughout instead of "mirror.hydra.gnu.org". * doc/contributing.texi (Submitting Patches): Likewise. * gnu/services/base.scm (hydra-key-authorization) (guix-activation): Remove mentions of "hydra.gnu.org" in comments and messages. * gnu/system/install.scm (%installation-services): Likewise. * guix/scripts/size.scm (guix-size): Likewise. --- Makefile.am | 2 +- build-aux/check-available-binaries.scm | 4 +- .../check-final-inputs-self-contained.scm | 2 +- doc/contributing.texi | 2 +- doc/guix.texi | 56 ++++++++++--------- gnu/services/base.scm | 4 +- gnu/system/install.scm | 2 +- guix/scripts/size.scm | 2 +- 8 files changed, 38 insertions(+), 36 deletions(-) diff --git a/Makefile.am b/Makefile.am index 6803666a57..a7a67e81cf 100644 --- a/Makefile.am +++ b/Makefile.am @@ -763,7 +763,7 @@ assert-no-store-file-names: $(distdir)/ChangeLog exit 1 ; \ fi -# Make sure hydra.gnu.org has the important binaries. +# Make sure important substitutes are available. assert-binaries-available: $(GOBJECTS) $(AM_V_at)$(top_builddir)/pre-inst-env "$(GUILE)" \ "$(top_srcdir)/build-aux/check-available-binaries.scm" diff --git a/build-aux/check-available-binaries.scm b/build-aux/check-available-binaries.scm index b832d99935..c80db1a37e 100644 --- a/build-aux/check-available-binaries.scm +++ b/build-aux/check-available-binaries.scm @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ ;;; GNU Guix --- Functional package management for GNU -;;; Copyright © 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 Ludovic Courtès +;;; Copyright © 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 Ludovic Courtès ;;; ;;; This file is part of GNU Guix. ;;; @@ -17,7 +17,7 @@ ;;; along with GNU Guix. If not, see . ;;; -;;; Check whether important binaries are available at hydra.gnu.org. +;;; Check whether important binaries are available. ;;; (use-modules (guix store) diff --git a/build-aux/check-final-inputs-self-contained.scm b/build-aux/check-final-inputs-self-contained.scm index 37dc883d3c..c819086508 100644 --- a/build-aux/check-final-inputs-self-contained.scm +++ b/build-aux/check-final-inputs-self-contained.scm @@ -17,7 +17,7 @@ ;;; along with GNU Guix. If not, see . ;;; -;;; Check whether important binaries are available at hydra.gnu.org. +;;; Check whether important binaries are available. ;;; (use-modules (guix store) diff --git a/doc/contributing.texi b/doc/contributing.texi index 7417f28d14..c55eb63382 100644 --- a/doc/contributing.texi +++ b/doc/contributing.texi @@ -443,7 +443,7 @@ as timestamps or randomly-generated output in the build result. Another option is to use @command{guix challenge} (@pxref{Invoking guix challenge}). You may run it once the package has been committed and -built by @code{hydra.gnu.org} to check whether it obtains the same +built by @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} to check whether it obtains the same result as you did. Better yet: Find another machine that can build it and run @command{guix publish}. Since the remote build machine is likely different from yours, this can catch non-determinism issues diff --git a/doc/guix.texi b/doc/guix.texi index b0aa5aa872..d96c35eace 100644 --- a/doc/guix.texi +++ b/doc/guix.texi @@ -13,6 +13,9 @@ @set OPENPGP-SIGNING-KEY-ID 3CE464558A84FDC69DB40CFB090B11993D9AEBB5 @set KEY-SERVER pool.sks-keyservers.net +@c The official substitute server used by default. +@set SUBSTITUTE-SERVER ci.guix.info + @copying Copyright @copyright{} 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 Ludovic Courtès@* Copyright @copyright{} 2013, 2014, 2016 Andreas Enge@* @@ -1274,8 +1277,7 @@ remote procedure call (@pxref{The Store}). @anchor{daemon-substitute-urls} Consider @var{urls} the default whitespace-separated list of substitute source URLs. When this option is omitted, -@indicateurl{https://mirror.hydra.gnu.org https://hydra.gnu.org} is used -(@code{mirror.hydra.gnu.org} is a mirror of @code{hydra.gnu.org}). +@indicateurl{https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} is used. This means that substitutes may be downloaded from @var{urls}, as long as they are signed by a trusted signature (@pxref{Substitutes}). @@ -2321,7 +2323,7 @@ also result from derivation builds, can be available as substitutes. @cindex hydra @cindex build farm -The @code{mirror.hydra.gnu.org} server is a front-end to an official build farm +The @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} server is a front-end to an official build farm that builds packages from Guix continuously for some architectures, and makes them available as substitutes. This is the default source of substitutes; it can be overridden by passing the @@ -2353,22 +2355,22 @@ other substitute server. @cindex substitutes, authorization thereof @cindex access control list (ACL), for substitutes @cindex ACL (access control list), for substitutes -To allow Guix to download substitutes from @code{hydra.gnu.org} or a +To allow Guix to download substitutes from @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} or a mirror thereof, you must add its public key to the access control list (ACL) of archive imports, using the @command{guix archive} command (@pxref{Invoking guix -archive}). Doing so implies that you trust @code{hydra.gnu.org} to not +archive}). Doing so implies that you trust @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} to not be compromised and to serve genuine substitutes. -The public key for @code{hydra.gnu.org} is installed along with Guix, in -@code{@var{prefix}/share/guix/hydra.gnu.org.pub}, where @var{prefix} is +The public key for @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} is installed along with Guix, in +@code{@var{prefix}/share/guix/@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}.pub}, where @var{prefix} is the installation prefix of Guix. If you installed Guix from source, make sure you checked the GPG signature of @file{guix-@value{VERSION}.tar.gz}, which contains this public key file. Then, you can run something like this: @example -# guix archive --authorize < @var{prefix}/share/guix/hydra.gnu.org.pub +# guix archive --authorize < @var{prefix}/share/guix/@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}.pub @end example @quotation Note @@ -2409,7 +2411,7 @@ $ guix build emacs --dry-run @end example @noindent -This indicates that substitutes from @code{hydra.gnu.org} are usable and +This indicates that substitutes from @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} are usable and will be downloaded, when possible, for future builds. @cindex substitutes, how to disable @@ -2501,9 +2503,9 @@ by a server. Today, each individual's control over their own computing is at the mercy of institutions, corporations, and groups with enough power and determination to subvert the computing infrastructure and exploit its -weaknesses. While using @code{hydra.gnu.org} substitutes can be +weaknesses. While using @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} substitutes can be convenient, we encourage users to also build on their own, or even run -their own build farm, such that @code{hydra.gnu.org} is less of an +their own build farm, such that @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} is less of an interesting target. One way to help is by publishing the software you build using @command{guix publish} so that others have one more choice of server to download substitutes from (@pxref{Invoking guix publish}). @@ -3658,11 +3660,11 @@ Read a single-item archive as served by substitute servers low-level operation needed in only very narrow use cases; see below. For example, the following command extracts the substitute for Emacs -served by @code{hydra.gnu.org} to @file{/tmp/emacs}: +served by @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} to @file{/tmp/emacs}: @example $ wget -O - \ - https://hydra.gnu.org/nar/@dots{}-emacs-24.5 \ + https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}/nar/@dots{}-emacs-24.5 \ | bunzip2 | guix archive -x /tmp/emacs @end example @@ -6683,7 +6685,7 @@ but you are actually on an @code{x86_64} machine: @example $ guix build --log-file gdb -s mips64el-linux -https://hydra.gnu.org/log/@dots{}-gdb-7.10 +https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}/log/@dots{}-gdb-7.10 @end example You can freely access a huge library of build logs! @@ -8342,7 +8344,7 @@ When @command{guix publish} runs, it spawns an HTTP server which allows anyone with network access to obtain substitutes from it. This means that any machine running Guix can also act as if it were a build farm, since the HTTP interface is compatible with Hydra, the software behind -the @code{hydra.gnu.org} build farm. +the @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} build farm. For security, each substitute is signed, allowing recipients to check their authenticity and integrity (@pxref{Substitutes}). Because @@ -8579,20 +8581,20 @@ any given store item. The command output looks like this: @smallexample -$ guix challenge --substitute-urls="https://hydra.gnu.org https://guix.example.org" -updating list of substitutes from 'https://hydra.gnu.org'... 100.0% +$ guix challenge --substitute-urls="https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER} https://guix.example.org" +updating list of substitutes from 'https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}'... 100.0% updating list of substitutes from 'https://guix.example.org'... 100.0% /gnu/store/@dots{}-openssl-1.0.2d contents differ: local hash: 0725l22r5jnzazaacncwsvp9kgf42266ayyp814v7djxs7nk963q - https://hydra.gnu.org/nar/@dots{}-openssl-1.0.2d: 0725l22r5jnzazaacncwsvp9kgf42266ayyp814v7djxs7nk963q + https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}/nar/@dots{}-openssl-1.0.2d: 0725l22r5jnzazaacncwsvp9kgf42266ayyp814v7djxs7nk963q https://guix.example.org/nar/@dots{}-openssl-1.0.2d: 1zy4fmaaqcnjrzzajkdn3f5gmjk754b43qkq47llbyak9z0qjyim /gnu/store/@dots{}-git-2.5.0 contents differ: local hash: 00p3bmryhjxrhpn2gxs2fy0a15lnip05l97205pgbk5ra395hyha - https://hydra.gnu.org/nar/@dots{}-git-2.5.0: 069nb85bv4d4a6slrwjdy8v1cn4cwspm3kdbmyb81d6zckj3nq9f + https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}/nar/@dots{}-git-2.5.0: 069nb85bv4d4a6slrwjdy8v1cn4cwspm3kdbmyb81d6zckj3nq9f https://guix.example.org/nar/@dots{}-git-2.5.0: 0mdqa9w1p6cmli6976v4wi0sw9r4p5prkj7lzfd1877wk11c9c73 /gnu/store/@dots{}-pius-2.1.1 contents differ: local hash: 0k4v3m9z1zp8xzzizb7d8kjj72f9172xv078sq4wl73vnq9ig3ax - https://hydra.gnu.org/nar/@dots{}-pius-2.1.1: 0k4v3m9z1zp8xzzizb7d8kjj72f9172xv078sq4wl73vnq9ig3ax + https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}/nar/@dots{}-pius-2.1.1: 0k4v3m9z1zp8xzzizb7d8kjj72f9172xv078sq4wl73vnq9ig3ax https://guix.example.org/nar/@dots{}-pius-2.1.1: 1cy25x1a4fzq5rk0pmvc8xhwyffnqz95h2bpvqsz2mpvlbccy0gs @dots{} @@ -8612,7 +8614,7 @@ the servers obtained a result different from the local build. @cindex non-determinism, in package builds As an example, @code{guix.example.org} always gets a different answer. -Conversely, @code{hydra.gnu.org} agrees with local builds, except in the +Conversely, @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} agrees with local builds, except in the case of Git. This might indicate that the build process of Git is non-deterministic, meaning that its output varies as a function of various things that Guix does not fully control, in spite of building @@ -8626,14 +8628,14 @@ To find out what is wrong with this Git binary, we can do something along these lines (@pxref{Invoking guix archive}): @example -$ wget -q -O - https://hydra.gnu.org/nar/@dots{}-git-2.5.0 \ +$ wget -q -O - https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}/nar/@dots{}-git-2.5.0 \ | guix archive -x /tmp/git $ diff -ur --no-dereference /gnu/store/@dots{}-git.2.5.0 /tmp/git @end example This command shows the difference between the files resulting from the local build, and the files resulting from the build on -@code{hydra.gnu.org} (@pxref{Overview, Comparing and Merging Files,, +@code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} (@pxref{Overview, Comparing and Merging Files,, diffutils, Comparing and Merging Files}). The @command{diff} command works great for text files. When binary files differ, a better option is @uref{https://diffoscope.org/, Diffoscope}, a tool that helps @@ -8648,7 +8650,7 @@ In the meantime, @command{guix challenge} is one tool to help address the problem. If you are writing packages for Guix, you are encouraged to check -whether @code{hydra.gnu.org} and other substitute servers obtain the +whether @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} and other substitute servers obtain the same build result as you did with: @example @@ -11238,14 +11240,14 @@ Number of build user accounts to create. @item @code{authorize-key?} (default: @code{#t}) @cindex substitutes, authorization thereof Whether to authorize the substitute keys listed in -@code{authorized-keys}---by default that of @code{hydra.gnu.org} +@code{authorized-keys}---by default that of @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} (@pxref{Substitutes}). @vindex %default-authorized-guix-keys @item @code{authorized-keys} (default: @var{%default-authorized-guix-keys}) The list of authorized key files for archive imports, as a list of string-valued gexps (@pxref{Invoking guix archive}). By default, it -contains that of @code{hydra.gnu.org} (@pxref{Substitutes}). +contains that of @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} (@pxref{Substitutes}). @item @code{use-substitutes?} (default: @code{#t}) Whether to use substitutes. @@ -23747,7 +23749,7 @@ system}. @cindex substituter Users can obtain the new package definition simply by running @command{guix pull} (@pxref{Invoking guix pull}). When -@code{hydra.gnu.org} is done building the package, installing the +@code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} is done building the package, installing the package automatically downloads binaries from there (@pxref{Substitutes}). The only place where human intervention is needed is to review and apply the patch. diff --git a/gnu/services/base.scm b/gnu/services/base.scm index 228d3c5926..cee9898d79 100644 --- a/gnu/services/base.scm +++ b/gnu/services/base.scm @@ -1518,7 +1518,7 @@ public key, with GUIX." (let ((status (cdr (waitpid pid)))) (unless (zero? status) (format (current-error-port) "warning: \ -failed to register hydra.gnu.org public key: ~a~%" status)))))))) +failed to register public key '~a': ~a~%" key status)))))))) (define %default-authorized-guix-keys ;; List of authorized substitute keys. @@ -1630,7 +1630,7 @@ failed to register hydra.gnu.org public key: ~a~%" status)))))))) ;; otherwise call 'chown' here, but the problem is that on a COW overlayfs, ;; chown leads to an entire copy of the tree, which is a bad idea. - ;; Optionally authorize hydra.gnu.org's key. + ;; Optionally authorize substitute server keys. (if authorize-key? #~(begin #$@(map (cut hydra-key-authorization <> guix) keys)) diff --git a/gnu/system/install.scm b/gnu/system/install.scm index 45b3a0c839..c345ba0626 100644 --- a/gnu/system/install.scm +++ b/gnu/system/install.scm @@ -250,7 +250,7 @@ You have been warned. Thanks for being so brave.\x1b[0m ;; The usual services. (syslog-service) - ;; The build daemon. Register the hydra.gnu.org key as trusted. + ;; The build daemon. Register the official server keys as trusted. ;; This allows the installation process to use substitutes by ;; default. (guix-service (guix-configuration (authorize-key? #t))) diff --git a/guix/scripts/size.scm b/guix/scripts/size.scm index 344be40883..25218a2945 100644 --- a/guix/scripts/size.scm +++ b/guix/scripts/size.scm @@ -297,7 +297,7 @@ Report the size of PACKAGE and its dependencies.\n")) (leave (G_ "missing store item argument\n"))) ((files ..1) (leave-on-EPIPE - ;; Turn off grafts because (1) hydra.gnu.org does not serve grafted + ;; Turn off grafts because (1) substitute servers do not serve grafted ;; packages, and (2) they do not make any difference on the ;; resulting size. (parameterize ((%graft? #f)) -- 2.19.2 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 03 11:12:31 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2018 16:12:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59350 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqpj-0006oX-GM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 11:12:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55118) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqpe-0006oE-UC for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 11:12:30 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqpY-0006Ik-IG for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 11:12:21 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:57532) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqpQ-0006Dm-Rr; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 11:12:12 -0500 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=55310 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gTqpQ-0000BY-Ju; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 11:12:12 -0500 From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) To: 33600@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Using a CDN or some other mirror? References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 17:12:10 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> ("Ludovic \=\?utf-8\?Q\?Cou\?\= \=\?utf-8\?Q\?rt\=C3\=A8s\=22's\?\= message of "Mon, 3 Dec 2018 16:43:35 +0100") Message-ID: <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Chris Marusich X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Hello, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s skribis: > These patches (actually the last one) switch Guix to default to > for substitutes, in preparation for the > upcoming 0.16.0 release (hopefully this week!). Right now, ci.guix.info points to berlin.guixsd.org, the front-end of the build farm hosted at the MDC. The previous setup was that mirror.hydra.gnu.org mirrors hydra.gnu.org (the actual build farm front-end) using an nginx proxy: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/maintenance.git/tree/hydra/nginx/m= irror.conf This provides a bit of redundancy that we don=E2=80=99t have currently for berlin. Thus, I=E2=80=99m thinking about using a similar setup, but hosting the mir= ror on some Big Corp CDN or similar. Chris Marusich came up with a setup along these lines a while back: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2016-03/msg00312.html Compared to Chris=E2=80=99s setup, given that =E2=80=98guix publish=E2=80= =99 now provides =E2=80=98Cache-Control=E2=80=99 headers (that was not the case back then, s= ee ), caching in the proxy should Just Work. I would like us to set up such a mirror for berlin and then have ci.guix.info point to that. The project should be able to pay the hosting fees. Thoughts? Would someone like to get started? You=E2=80=99ll undoubtedly get all the appreciation of each one of us and a beverage of your choice next time we meet! :-) Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 03 15:45:05 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2018 20:45:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59493 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTv5V-0007XQ-Cb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 15:45:05 -0500 Received: from sender-of-o53.zoho.com ([135.84.80.218]:21705) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTv5T-0007XC-7I for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 15:45:04 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1543869891; cv=none; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; b=NIHWrWA28Wr5rdOkNtLFo8K+/cq4jzysUwsEsWxx599Zr+CQrWZwBexrkh7rzwHoFUb+2Bt5+sgp3yZznhgQh/phny31ZoNkRYlwdgDf5WhjnUFBvAiga2cs3IzGjiRebrmxSU4NhZJuK29u9KgfdU26V6YEX79Eb60b1gTYdcc= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; t=1543869891; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=0BJr4u9VHNLf8UvqHzM+Roi9g03823c7BNjvnyOzu7w=; b=aVGE+N0beQXeRz+YMy3j+ZMFdcZakekYT84wXOX5oziXCeu9GOwT81/gn2GTnAbw+Q2s1QLlwEDegeVn3BDBgvCk4d/rxva9kqNLWIXKNWTBscydB8Zz/e/OivZqOXy3Vqv2bhP/CXCP+IVFOVCwJISlWQxmhJjybYN23Rx7vNo= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zoho.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@elephly.net; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1543869891; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; l=251; bh=0BJr4u9VHNLf8UvqHzM+Roi9g03823c7BNjvnyOzu7w=; b=BjHAhw7hs8cfE6TLkCnmfWJPb/RMAlbBVORFGtLSjvPrbAbTvC1+vdep9e6vLpYo Pj/K/uXvbcr9wEFM1tfnRDPV0ZvgFX/Jv1QacM/dRKQfiUKbjde/YO6IEAvQmgfOed3 fhvtb5bqVOj95S4lxcvAZQ8dVvNUE7uP/+dpMicw= Received: from localhost (p578E70E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [87.142.112.228]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 154386988872849.28177624571629; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 12:44:48 -0800 (PST) References: <20181203155335.10629-1-ludo@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.0; emacs 26.1 From: Ricardo Wurmus To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/3] etc: Add "ci.guix.info.pub" public key file. In-reply-to: <20181203155335.10629-1-ludo@gnu.org> X-URL: https://elephly.net X-PGP-Key: https://elephly.net/rekado.pubkey X-PGP-Fingerprint: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 21:44:45 +0100 Message-ID: <87y396gx1e.fsf@elephly.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > * etc/substitutes/ci.guix.info.pub: New file. > * Makefile.am (dist_pkgdata_DATA): Add it. > * guix/self.scm (miscellaneous-files): Add > "share/guix/ci.guix.info.pub". LGTM! --=20 Ricardo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 03 15:47:42 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2018 20:47:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59499 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTv81-0007bp-S2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 15:47:42 -0500 Received: from sender-of-o52.zoho.com ([135.84.80.217]:21425) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTv7z-0007bg-J4 for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 15:47:40 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1543870046; cv=none; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; b=B5ljPm2YmRWZ9S+bL7s2cu9/8Z4gd+KE/6s7GyhBjhw/yauTHU+5M4cFU/IXTUQwjx5SZBr64YYFgi4sgTP4CYl4habGc94eZCm5ibpQ+cM9C2y8jgYDO2I+qPnLrvsePG0UtWhkEiLe0IQd8Jxd8DsTmWVKfj4nxb8GrKWwPFE= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; t=1543870046; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=/5TM3tHFn7+Ursugk1BzWVOBbX8nJ9HkohNMwmmFa78=; b=W2SQ81/dl6C3JtaHvHzkToAd5FuVOyUT4ebYlbdrNMr/+M0/x9p7caLKgVU1Sb6XXe6IQ4pYx8WcumRKEcVOSH1ZGxkr/UP41VuQQCU+gzb5VT4BVv2k2VOzQAr0pi1pmbCioLamskgu3bOVa66eXOb9tZUmFI6U5Qe9ttFPeVI= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zoho.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@elephly.net; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1543870046; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; l=1196; bh=/5TM3tHFn7+Ursugk1BzWVOBbX8nJ9HkohNMwmmFa78=; b=Y+ZyCTNEHpUfBX+lKOtLqtEUdTeZHehIiSt4OKhaUy8N6VqmiVj31DVQFRi3ZC2t d34643fdBsL/Plo5IeABofRef8QLN+CsoG+kM7QnirlQfyQVTX0+NI92KL+VLq3ns3i CaG9rTohKrITu8z9W5Gfcdaim2z3CIf0KmtsQRO0= Received: from localhost (p578E70E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [87.142.112.228]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1543870044023408.51940198789544; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 12:47:24 -0800 (PST) References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.0; emacs 26.1 From: Ricardo Wurmus To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: Using a CDN or some other mirror? In-reply-to: <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> X-URL: https://elephly.net X-PGP-Key: https://elephly.net/rekado.pubkey X-PGP-Fingerprint: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 21:47:20 +0100 Message-ID: <87wooqgwx3.fsf@elephly.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > Hello, > > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s skribis: > >> These patches (actually the last one) switch Guix to default to >> for substitutes, in preparation for the >> upcoming 0.16.0 release (hopefully this week!). > > Right now, ci.guix.info points to berlin.guixsd.org, the front-end of > the build farm hosted at the MDC. > > The previous setup was that mirror.hydra.gnu.org mirrors hydra.gnu.org > (the actual build farm front-end) using an nginx proxy: > > https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/maintenance.git/tree/hydra/nginx= /mirror.conf > > This provides a bit of redundancy that we don=E2=80=99t have currently for > berlin. > > Thus, I=E2=80=99m thinking about using a similar setup, but hosting the m= irror > on some Big Corp CDN or similar. Chris Marusich came up with a setup > along these lines a while back: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2016-03/msg00312.html Large ISPs also provide CDN services. I already contacted Deutsche Telekom so that we can compare their CDN offer with the Amazon Cloudfont setup that Chris has configured. -- Ricardo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 03 18:51:49 2018 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2018 23:51:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59575 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTy0D-0004Mq-LP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 18:51:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48362) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gTy0B-0004Mb-Pc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 18:51:48 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTy02-00038g-PS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 18:51:42 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:39929) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTy02-000389-Jd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 18:51:38 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37902) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTxzy-0004df-D1 for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 18:51:38 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTxuA-0003gN-QY for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 18:45:35 -0500 Received: from world.peace.net ([64.112.178.59]:34094) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gTxu6-0003aL-D7; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 18:45:30 -0500 Received: from mhw by world.peace.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1gTxu4-0006M7-Hq; Mon, 03 Dec 2018 18:45:28 -0500 From: Mark H Weaver To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/3] Defaulting to ci.guix.info (aka. berlin.guixsd.org) References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 18:44:43 -0500 In-Reply-To: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> ("Ludovic \=\?utf-8\?Q\?Cou\?\= \=\?utf-8\?Q\?rt\=C3\=A8s\=22's\?\= message of "Mon, 3 Dec 2018 16:43:35 +0100") Message-ID: <8736re41kp.fsf@netris.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, guix-patches@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Hi Ludovic, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > These patches (actually the last one) switch Guix to default to > for substitutes, in preparation for the > upcoming 0.16.0 release (hopefully this week!). Who owns the guix.info domain? Also, who owns the guixsd.org domain? Thanks, Mark From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 04 00:56:19 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2018 05:56:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59691 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU3gw-0007yQ-NW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 00:56:18 -0500 Received: from sender-of-o52.zoho.com ([135.84.80.217]:21438) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU3gv-0007yI-37 for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 00:56:17 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1543902921; cv=none; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; b=fGhpKriaurjirPntlaUDkp1tiLW2McaiRAXtD3IVDdOrIY3ytJL8gVH+BQoYOATZad/vzqmZdE4SOT7Eo1jPC97782wErhH52m+JDdTu4I/e0aXiP2FqRm27Xg0upWQcZnsJL8cXFwgmqhzLAU31d/CWRvoaWBUycb4V9WREpKY= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; t=1543902921; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=8KELSuEZZAChLevwjnSOb6HJPyZfGAh4PJXOlpB0i4g=; b=A1TKPM6SECts0kDfneWxrokjWdlZwK4mabbClYej5PFhG/NdFtNKTRrXUAo5YiU5Qew1KRpH5RW48AnBXau0MgRYBVCRE3tWj/y9FpQE1+9DJBfpFMjd30dLlWeaCJ3FmAD76NKGGQgj3+/dZm0zlXA4BhYw19ER5TG6BuR7SYI= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zoho.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@elephly.net; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1543902921; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; l=422; bh=8KELSuEZZAChLevwjnSOb6HJPyZfGAh4PJXOlpB0i4g=; b=MVyIesb1vH506EQNon4r+eSzUfZzAuTY8euW+r5Ssp7J50q1ibYN8Pc7DLWPoYas 2VIEyhTq09Ceqybkn8zJrfm7t9g8wMPIsOZp6/7ULs2WSKhl9DUQyafi3TwTPAI5y/7 YsBypWXHYa9QLFyv9FwwNfaI/eldeVm9s56hYCR0= Received: from localhost (p578E6516.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [87.142.101.22]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1543902919553131.19081992644442; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 21:55:19 -0800 (PST) References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <8736re41kp.fsf@netris.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.0; emacs 26.1 From: Ricardo Wurmus To: Mark H Weaver Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/3] Defaulting to ci.guix.info (aka. berlin.guixsd.org) In-reply-to: <8736re41kp.fsf@netris.org> X-URL: https://elephly.net X-PGP-Key: https://elephly.net/rekado.pubkey X-PGP-Fingerprint: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2018 06:55:14 +0100 Message-ID: <87va49hm4d.fsf@elephly.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Mark, > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > >> These patches (actually the last one) switch Guix to default to >> for substitutes, in preparation for the >> upcoming 0.16.0 release (hopefully this week!). > > Who owns the guix.info domain? I registered it and offered it to Guix Europe (though we aren=E2=80=99t yet sharing administration of the domain). -- Ricardo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 04 03:31:18 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2018 08:31:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59754 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU66v-000432-RH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 03:31:18 -0500 Received: from sender-of-o53.zoho.com ([135.84.80.218]:21748) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU66t-00042r-Le for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 03:31:16 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1543869847; cv=none; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; b=kVAPElLhb4CPUsGC75n5KU8so82A2gWqK3LTcT3LOGqJ5ZFzxr1pK4vOMI1M76inh8a1zIFMpk2njocb4Q6/twpCJevzP8ez8N3RHmlkJWozPaE2LeZYzQS+5Wwg6Ta9bvxeKRdii1fQe3+eLXWJ6pllVySmYoGPTSvMsqndlpM= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; t=1543869847; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=5dX/KN4nFXfakte6t3syy6I0BxVMtr6RCc4PGmcXaoE=; b=iLT4wNQyCkbcVyW4d4mCYA1yBqX6FCEkumXY4dwE9CifJE8EfLCHNhZL56X8npfRml1bhdbaHaaBogwgdX/v7EvvVCiaSJbCYAplWrH4xTshWjdpKsqgzO/dI0w1Sr4PIly7C2CYwEwNAU0h+slSo/M1YM04/hgTUcVR4WLiRPU= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zoho.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@elephly.net; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1543869847; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; l=723; bh=5dX/KN4nFXfakte6t3syy6I0BxVMtr6RCc4PGmcXaoE=; b=Szu641r9JVtX4DvSHjqG8dWNSN4Lm6aGhoC3KRDTUUHfBvMK+uKpNsQIPFYW7msH z+JdKPGWZNJ979vIIUyRmOTrYYhOfDbo89McfCBTaECytodzub5tUUs47eLQddSl7e8 E6lt55SM13v+m0szbg4pCw7H/+7vsULJl9HO0cwk= Received: from localhost (p578E70E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [87.142.112.228]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1543869845773788.0556225497505; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 12:44:05 -0800 (PST) References: <20181203155335.10629-1-ludo@gnu.org> <20181203155335.10629-2-ludo@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.0; emacs 26.1 From: Ricardo Wurmus To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/3] Remove most references to hydra.gnu.org. In-reply-to: <20181203155335.10629-2-ludo@gnu.org> X-URL: https://elephly.net X-PGP-Key: https://elephly.net/rekado.pubkey X-PGP-Fingerprint: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 21:44:00 +0100 Message-ID: <87zhtmgx2n.fsf@elephly.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > * Makefile.am (assert-binaries-available): Don't mention hydra.gnu.org > in comment. > * build-aux/check-available-binaries.scm: Likewise. > * build-aux/check-final-inputs-self-contained.scm: Likewise. > * doc/guix.texi (SUBSTITUTE-SERVER): New variable. > Use it throughout instead of "mirror.hydra.gnu.org". > * doc/contributing.texi (Submitting Patches): Likewise. > * gnu/services/base.scm (hydra-key-authorization) > (guix-activation): Remove mentions of "hydra.gnu.org" in comments and > messages. > * gnu/system/install.scm (%installation-services): Likewise. > * guix/scripts/size.scm (guix-size): Likewise. This looks good to me. --=20 Ricardo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 04 04:00:30 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2018 09:00:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59787 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU6ZB-0004s1-SL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 04:00:30 -0500 Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([185.233.100.1]:34604) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU6ZA-0004rt-Mn for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 04:00:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 866A51E54; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 10:00:27 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at aquilenet.fr Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hera.aquilenet.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ja7ypAAtC-tQ; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 10:00:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from jurong (unknown [92.184.117.149]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E2697C02; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 10:00:24 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 09:59:48 +0100 From: Andreas Enge To: Mark H Weaver Subject: Re: [bug#33600] [PATCH 0/3] Defaulting to ci.guix.info (aka. berlin.guixsd.org) Message-ID: <20181204085948.GA1690@jurong> References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <8736re41kp.fsf@netris.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8736re41kp.fsf@netris.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Ludovic =?iso-8859-15?Q?Court=E8s?= , 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) On Mon, Dec 03, 2018 at 06:44:43PM -0500, Mark H Weaver wrote: > Who owns the guix.info domain? Also, who owns the guixsd.org domain? guixsd.org is owned by the Guix Europe association. guix.info, as far as I know, by Ricardo. Plans are to drop guixsd.org in the long run, and I would suggest to transfer guix.info to Guix Europe at the next renewal. Andreas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 04 04:03:14 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2018 09:03:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59791 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU6bp-0004wr-9v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 04:03:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39649) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU6bn-0004wd-GM for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 04:03:11 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gU6bh-0002IM-Jx for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 04:03:06 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:48992) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gU6bf-0002GR-Jy; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 04:03:03 -0500 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=32874 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gU6bf-0001J7-A8; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 04:03:03 -0500 From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) To: Ricardo Wurmus Subject: Re: [bug#33600] [PATCH 0/3] Defaulting to ci.guix.info (aka. berlin.guixsd.org) References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <8736re41kp.fsf@netris.org> <87va49hm4d.fsf@elephly.net> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2018 10:03:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87va49hm4d.fsf@elephly.net> (Ricardo Wurmus's message of "Tue, 04 Dec 2018 06:55:14 +0100") Message-ID: <87bm617jga.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Mark H Weaver , Andreas Enge , 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Hello, Ricardo Wurmus skribis: >> Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: >> >>> These patches (actually the last one) switch Guix to default to >>> for substitutes, in preparation for the >>> upcoming 0.16.0 release (hopefully this week!). >> >> Who owns the guix.info domain? > > I registered it and offered it to Guix Europe (though we aren=E2=80=99t y= et > sharing administration of the domain). Could you make sure several people have access to the administration interface? As for guixsd.org, it was initially owned by Andreas Enge who transferred it to Guix Europe and also provided credentials to me and I think a couple of other people, though I forgot who. Andreas? We should write all this information down in guix-maintenance.git like we did for build machines, so people know who to contact in case something goes wrong or what to do when someone leaves the project. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 04 05:08:16 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2018 10:08:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59877 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU7cl-0006mM-SA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 05:08:16 -0500 Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([185.233.100.1]:35494) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU7ch-0006m8-AR for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 05:08:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50C27B9C; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 11:08:10 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at aquilenet.fr Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hera.aquilenet.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eyCJHzrMbGrf; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 11:08:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from jurong (wifi-eduroam-85-031.paris.inria.fr [128.93.85.31]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 666EDA29; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 11:08:09 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 11:08:07 +0100 From: Andreas Enge To: Ludovic =?iso-8859-15?Q?Court=E8s?= Subject: Re: [bug#33600] [PATCH 0/3] Defaulting to ci.guix.info (aka. berlin.guixsd.org) Message-ID: <20181204100807.GA4134@jurong> References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <8736re41kp.fsf@netris.org> <87va49hm4d.fsf@elephly.net> <87bm617jga.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87bm617jga.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: Ricardo Wurmus , Mark H Weaver , guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) On Tue, Dec 04, 2018 at 10:03:01AM +0100, Ludovic Courts wrote: > As for guixsd.org, it was initially owned by Andreas Enge who > transferred it to Guix Europe and also provided credentials to me and I > think a couple of other people, though I forgot who. Andreas? Apart from you, to Ricardo Wurmus, Christopher Baines and Manolis Ragkousis. I am of course happy to share the credentials with more people from the Guix sysadmin group. Andreas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 04 05:22:12 2018 Received: (at 33600-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2018 10:22:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59909 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU7qG-0007Co-9c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 05:22:12 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46271) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU7qB-0007CK-12 for 33600-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 05:22:07 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gU7q5-0006KA-3T for 33600-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 05:22:01 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:50697) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gU7q5-0006K2-0S; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 05:22:01 -0500 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=51610 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gU7q4-0003MO-O0; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 05:22:00 -0500 From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) To: Ricardo Wurmus Subject: Re: [bug#33600] [PATCH 2/3] Remove most references to hydra.gnu.org. References: <20181203155335.10629-1-ludo@gnu.org> <20181203155335.10629-2-ludo@gnu.org> <87zhtmgx2n.fsf@elephly.net> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2018 11:21:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87zhtmgx2n.fsf@elephly.net> (Ricardo Wurmus's message of "Mon, 03 Dec 2018 21:44:00 +0100") Message-ID: <87mupl6188.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600-done Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Ricardo Wurmus skribis: > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > >> * Makefile.am (assert-binaries-available): Don't mention hydra.gnu.org >> in comment. >> * build-aux/check-available-binaries.scm: Likewise. >> * build-aux/check-final-inputs-self-contained.scm: Likewise. >> * doc/guix.texi (SUBSTITUTE-SERVER): New variable. >> Use it throughout instead of "mirror.hydra.gnu.org". >> * doc/contributing.texi (Submitting Patches): Likewise. >> * gnu/services/base.scm (hydra-key-authorization) >> (guix-activation): Remove mentions of "hydra.gnu.org" in comments and >> messages. >> * gnu/system/install.scm (%installation-services): Likewise. >> * guix/scripts/size.scm (guix-size): Likewise. > > This looks good to me. Great, pushed! Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 04 05:29:02 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2018 10:29:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59915 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU7ws-0007P4-3V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 05:29:02 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49173) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU7wp-0007Oi-Nh for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 05:28:59 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gU7wj-0004No-PC for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 05:28:54 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:50825) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gU7wj-0004Ni-M5; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 05:28:53 -0500 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=51710 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gU7wj-0007Fj-Di; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 05:28:53 -0500 From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) To: Andreas Enge Subject: Re: [bug#33600] [PATCH 0/3] Defaulting to ci.guix.info (aka. berlin.guixsd.org) References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <8736re41kp.fsf@netris.org> <20181204085948.GA1690@jurong> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2018 11:28:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20181204085948.GA1690@jurong> (Andreas Enge's message of "Tue, 4 Dec 2018 09:59:48 +0100") Message-ID: <87in0960ws.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Mark H Weaver , 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Hello, Andreas Enge skribis: > On Mon, Dec 03, 2018 at 06:44:43PM -0500, Mark H Weaver wrote: >> Who owns the guix.info domain? Also, who owns the guixsd.org domain? > > guixsd.org is owned by the Guix Europe association. guix.info, as far as > I know, by Ricardo. Plans are to drop guixsd.org in the long run, and I > would suggest to transfer guix.info to Guix Europe at the next renewal. Awesome. I=E2=80=99ve added a file to record that info in guix-maintenance.git. Please feel free to complete it; for instance it=E2=80=99d be good to know the expiration date of each domain. Thanks! Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 04 05:47:06 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2018 10:47:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59920 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU8EL-0007yC-O0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 05:47:05 -0500 Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([185.233.100.1]:35942) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gU8EK-0007y4-KM for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 05:47:05 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04AEA1E91; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 11:47:03 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at aquilenet.fr Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hera.aquilenet.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MvmQfYqw1YhL; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 11:47:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from jurong (wifi-eduroam-85-031.paris.inria.fr [128.93.85.31]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 548E91E65; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 11:47:01 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 11:46:59 +0100 From: Andreas Enge To: Ludovic =?iso-8859-15?Q?Court=E8s?= Subject: Re: [bug#33600] [PATCH 0/3] Defaulting to ci.guix.info (aka. berlin.guixsd.org) Message-ID: <20181204104659.GA6125@jurong> References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <8736re41kp.fsf@netris.org> <20181204085948.GA1690@jurong> <87in0960ws.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87in0960ws.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Mark H Weaver , 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) On Tue, Dec 04, 2018 at 11:28:51AM +0100, Ludovic Courtès wrote: > Awesome. I’ve added a file to record that info in > guix-maintenance.git. Please feel free to complete it; for instance > it’d be good to know the expiration date of each domain. Done for guixsd.org. It expires on January 27. I would be okay to let it run out if guix.info is sufficiently marketed in the meantime. Andreas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 04 09:12:34 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2018 14:12:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59970 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gUBR9-0007Mq-Fh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 09:12:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34872) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gUBR6-0007MZ-DY for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 09:12:28 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gUBR0-0002fn-Ci for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 09:12:23 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:54798) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gUBR0-0002fh-8y; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 09:12:22 -0500 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=55774 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gUBQz-0003Kk-VN; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 09:12:22 -0500 From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) To: Andreas Enge Subject: Re: [bug#33600] [PATCH 0/3] Defaulting to ci.guix.info (aka. berlin.guixsd.org) References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <8736re41kp.fsf@netris.org> <20181204085948.GA1690@jurong> <87in0960ws.fsf@gnu.org> <20181204104659.GA6125@jurong> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 14 Frimaire an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2018 15:12:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20181204104659.GA6125@jurong> (Andreas Enge's message of "Tue, 4 Dec 2018 11:46:59 +0100") Message-ID: <87in091iuz.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Mark H Weaver , 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Andreas Enge skribis: > On Tue, Dec 04, 2018 at 11:28:51AM +0100, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: >> Awesome. I=E2=80=99ve added a file to record that info in >> guix-maintenance.git. Please feel free to complete it; for instance >> it=E2=80=99d be good to know the expiration date of each domain. > > Done for guixsd.org. It expires on January 27. I would be okay to let it > run out if guix.info is sufficiently marketed in the meantime. Thanks. I think it=E2=80=99s safer to keep it for a while because there ma= y be machine referring to berlin.guixsd.org here and there. Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 04 09:14:47 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2018 14:14:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59975 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gUBTG-0007Qy-7v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 09:14:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35669) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gUBTE-0007Qi-2F for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 09:14:40 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gUBT8-0003qK-76 for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 09:14:35 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:54852) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gUBT6-0003pQ-JT; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 09:14:32 -0500 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=55778 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gUBT6-0003bI-BO; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 09:14:32 -0500 From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) To: Ricardo Wurmus Subject: Re: [PATCH 3/3] build: Default to https://ci.guix.info for substitutes. References: <20181203155335.10629-1-ludo@gnu.org> <20181203155335.10629-3-ludo@gnu.org> <871s6yibw3.fsf@elephly.net> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 14 Frimaire an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2018 15:14:31 +0100 In-Reply-To: <871s6yibw3.fsf@elephly.net> (Ricardo Wurmus's message of "Mon, 03 Dec 2018 21:38:36 +0100") Message-ID: <87a7ll1irc.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Ricardo Wurmus skribis: > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > >> * doc/guix.texi (SUBSTITUTE-SERVER): Switch to ci.guix.info. > [=E2=80=A6] >> diff --git a/doc/guix.texi b/doc/guix.texi >> index d96c35eace..a5ae1c65e6 100644 >> --- a/doc/guix.texi >> +++ b/doc/guix.texi >> @@ -14,7 +14,7 @@ >> @set KEY-SERVER pool.sks-keyservers.net >>=20=20 >> @c The official substitute server used by default. >> -@set SUBSTITUTE-SERVER ci.guix.info >> +@set SUBSTITUTE-SERVER mirror.hydra.gnu.org > > Is this really correct? Oops, I must have messed up while preparing the patches. Thanks for the heads-up! Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 04 11:26:00 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2018 16:26:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60842 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gUDWG-0002go-Tb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 11:26:00 -0500 Received: from sender-of-o53.zoho.com ([135.84.80.218]:21768) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gUDWE-0002ge-52 for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 11:25:55 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1543869521; cv=none; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; b=ie20HCqg2WakLI1akmEIpvmuL/odb5cbufExWQ+NcLw6SDNK18d2qB+O8VKaQ0vdVvMB2OLvEFhwIxG9Pjlp3TV3ZBAmAVWqq4dBrg+TDlaxKZO9b/R+IXc1T60LR81rtMo2YYYkAdyL8Pt//6e7X0NtfKL95RJt8Q+qwpCsp88= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; t=1543869521; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=juOQKP4f6YYVhgxxdQ0P2YrkGsJoka1h5WEdcPCY6a0=; b=oeKMSlMbwwkD5CZ1OE5o5VAPxRH/4HX+zYxdIn/BZ3PPX/67SGoBm7s5a+CNl1Ly6vvkyw6UC4wAqQuN1/taLfiRaxXSjnfACiZzL5ol4Kq577pKgk3/iI9iRBOiMz6tgiejVx/4oJl8botegKISyKld5N4crpzNu9CpLZu/6Do= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zoho.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@elephly.net; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1543869521; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; l=517; bh=juOQKP4f6YYVhgxxdQ0P2YrkGsJoka1h5WEdcPCY6a0=; b=K5IPM7PWx3b7qEu+48FRhEUGYAaC9n4q7SdmsOlR4fPoQF76PuGp8JtRoGqJNoZx CdUMG0oJyy9c3heLwlDMYkTBchgQQVbeH7OOK8TsyMvOVK1NeczpUwzUe1XhEwpShJJ 81czRjq6+rbr37J9J3gthLbP167SzoNtmSqL/s6o= Received: from localhost (p578E70E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [87.142.112.228]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1543869520918106.88025801024708; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 12:38:40 -0800 (PST) References: <20181203155335.10629-1-ludo@gnu.org> <20181203155335.10629-3-ludo@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.0; emacs 26.1 From: Ricardo Wurmus To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: [PATCH 3/3] build: Default to https://ci.guix.info for substitutes. In-reply-to: <20181203155335.10629-3-ludo@gnu.org> X-URL: https://elephly.net X-PGP-Key: https://elephly.net/rekado.pubkey X-PGP-Fingerprint: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 21:38:36 +0100 Message-ID: <871s6yibw3.fsf@elephly.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > * doc/guix.texi (SUBSTITUTE-SERVER): Switch to ci.guix.info. [=E2=80=A6] > diff --git a/doc/guix.texi b/doc/guix.texi > index d96c35eace..a5ae1c65e6 100644 > --- a/doc/guix.texi > +++ b/doc/guix.texi > @@ -14,7 +14,7 @@ > @set KEY-SERVER pool.sks-keyservers.net >=20=20 > @c The official substitute server used by default. > -@set SUBSTITUTE-SERVER ci.guix.info > +@set SUBSTITUTE-SERVER mirror.hydra.gnu.org Is this really correct? --=20 Ricardo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 08 22:33:50 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Dec 2018 03:33:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39112 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gVpqh-0006Fp-Pb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 22:33:50 -0500 Received: from mail-pf1-f195.google.com ([209.85.210.195]:33504) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gVpqb-0006FX-Ak for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 22:33:42 -0500 Received: by mail-pf1-f195.google.com with SMTP id c123so3764945pfb.0 for <33600@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 19:33:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:message-id:user-agent :mime-version; bh=+z07KfDhOSDtIS4xunkFHOYkZDpKAo8yXM/N5RBTDVc=; b=cXKJIog/geEC0AtGOPOo0npdCBpXKkri8bClnGX3O1eRV1KF5jx++QAhUFPpWNgiEm AZFZsDOLNr1dcf+CY9nLcAC05dOAy+Sk1YHHOy0M4tZkZPmAghr6lHAFNNADijMkDu// MibmmMInGKPRYwsE3sZXbrEqN0m3E6fV94yUMFFV6j6r8dGAC7yFQnc1TY12OaKyAPkb 9GWq4laiNY1JzFWOYB2qZUmVUKURXatOz/WRFZwXLSuFNsAtL73cK0F3aXOCn6Nos9pM 68kuR0KUfmjlnbziQBpeK2ZWAPiXOkQOSJi4fSU+uWJhB1KZL9sxGCDYlAYhsvC8S6EK qpeA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=+z07KfDhOSDtIS4xunkFHOYkZDpKAo8yXM/N5RBTDVc=; b=khvkMtj2NwRMFT+8xbOhGSb5W1Cq9TA2VC7wWNT6lomnHDrjv+dEYkpZTsZhynFVQW uzL6M5bKi8mjLhAHjjAfjbpJIWw8PYbsjHg+72h6HjSsHhD2ri8sHCDj7KFx4wQNfxOw LbDVdRT6KKAGjAXWhNqV37lnzKyjdsaoxp+Oy/SzS0DSmQ4gv3t6gCaTIsmUh7yS4YH7 1G5nEk99R1sz/NxZV/qc2BysBEpA6As83q7dmNhhMLzihi29DQMjiBmQNQuW43TCrFQ7 8zUBO9uGk+4vqgVtSA6gY5GwgX/E/WN6gCJdQVkn62Do7DABFSpc+A8KbJHJehYImKjl cFCw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZ3Z6lGaxzfCxwycNC6I37h36tac/oew/WwupmIHSwVOMkxIipG NZCAo+jEKUdm1+wXRYqyTxg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/WQqe2WvXvDJbQIX+hqCSgqQM+aMinw4awFNKRG7HiLyV4gwCMU7Bvi1eGFEwkR7UT2M9okzQ== X-Received: by 2002:a62:6303:: with SMTP id x3mr8015000pfb.110.1544326411090; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 19:33:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from garuda.local (c-73-53-106-26.hsd1.wa.comcast.net. [73.53.106.26]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h82sm18850933pfa.105.2018.12.08.19.33.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sat, 08 Dec 2018 19:33:29 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Marusich To: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=), Ricardo Wurmus , Hartmut Goebel , "Thompson\, David" , Meiyo Peng Subject: Re: Using a CDN or some other mirror? References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2018 19:33:17 -0800 Message-ID: <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone, ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Court=C3=A8s) writes: > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s skribis: > > [...] I=E2=80=99m thinking about using a similar setup, but hosting the m= irror > on some Big Corp CDN or similar. Chris Marusich came up with a setup > along these lines a while back: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2016-03/msg00312.html > > Compared to Chris=E2=80=99s setup, given that =E2=80=98guix publish=E2=80= =99 now provides > =E2=80=98Cache-Control=E2=80=99 headers (that was not the case back then,= see > ), > caching in the proxy should Just Work. > > I would like us to set up such a mirror for berlin and then have > ci.guix.info point to that. The project should be able to pay the > hosting fees. > > Thoughts? Regarding DNS, it would be nice if we could use an official GNU subdomain. If we can't use a GNU subdomain, we should at least make sure we have some kind of DNS auto-renewal set up so that nobody can poach our domain names. And the operators should take appropriate precautions when sharing any credentials used for managing it all. Regarding CDNs, I definitely think it's worth a try! Even Debian is using CloudFront (cloudfront.debian.net). In fact, email correspondence suggests that as of 2013, Amazon may even have been paying for it! https://lists.debian.org/debian-cloud/2013/05/msg00071.html I wonder if Amazon would be willing to pay for our CloudFront distribution if we asked them nicely? In any case, before deciding to use Amazon CloudFront for ci.guix.info, it would be prudent to estimate the cost. CloudFront, like most Amazon AWS services, is a "pay for what you use" model. The pricing is here: https://aws.amazon.com/cloudfront/pricing To accurately estimate the cost, we need to know how many requests we expect to receive, and how many bytes we expect to transfer out, during a single month. Do we have information like this for berlin today? Although I don't doubt that a CDN will perform better than what we have now, I do think it would be good to measure the performance so that we know for sure the money spent is actually providing a benefit. It would be nice to have some data before and after to measure how availability and performance have changed. Apart from anecdotes, what data do we have to determine whether performance has improved after introducing a CDN? For example, the following information could be useful: * Network load on the origin server(s) * Clients' latency to (the addresses pointed to by) ci.guix.info * Clients' throughput while downloading substitutes from ci.guix.info We don't log or collect client metrics, and that's fine. It could be useful to add code to Guix to measure things like this when the user asks to do so, but perhaps it isn't necessary. It may be good enough if people just volunteer to manually gather some information and share it. For example, you can define a shell function like this: =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- measure_get () { curl -L \ -o /dev/null \ -w "url_effective: %{url_effective}\\n\ http_code: %{http_code}\\n\ num_connects: %{num_connects}\\n\ num_redirects: %{num_redirects}\\n\ remote_ip: %{remote_ip}\\n\ remote_port: %{remote_port}\\n\ size_download: %{size_download} B\\n\ speed_download: %{speed_download} B/s\\n\ time_appconnect: %{time_appconnect} s\\n\ time_connect: %{time_connect} s\\n\ time_namelookup: %{time_namelookup} s\\n\ time_pretransfer: %{time_pretransfer} s\\n\ time_redirect: %{time_redirect} s\\n\ time_starttransfer: %{time_starttransfer} s\\n\ time_total: %{time_total} s\\n" \ "$1" } =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- See "man curl" for the meaning of each metric. You can then use this function to measure a substitute download. Here's an example in which I download a large substitute (linux-libre) from one of my machines in Seattle: =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- $ measure_get https://berlin.guixsd.org/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz= 2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 2>/dev/null url_effective: https://berlin.guixsd.org/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhs= z2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 141.80.181.40 remote_port: 443 size_download: 69899433 B speed_download: 4945831.000 B/s time_appconnect: 0.885277 s time_connect: 0.459667 s time_namelookup: 0.254210 s time_pretransfer: 0.885478 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 1.273994 s time_total: 14.133584 s $=20 =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Here, it took 0.459667 - 0.254210 =3D 0.205457 seconds (about 205 ms) to establish the TCP connection after the DNS lookup. The average throughput was 1924285 bytes per second (about 40 megabits per second, where 1 megabit =3D 10^6 bits). It seems my connection to berlin is already pretty good! We can get more information about latency by using a tool like mtr: =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- $ sudo mtr -c 10 --report-wide --tcp -P 443 berlin.guixsd.org Start: 2018-12-08T16:57:40-0800 HOST: localhost.localdomain Loss% Snt Last Avg= Best Wrst StDev [... I've omitted the intermediate hops because they aren't relevant ...] 13.|-- 141.80.181.40 0.0% 10 205.0 201= .9 194.9 212.8 5.6 =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- My machine's latency to berlin is about 202 ms, which matches what we calculated above. For experimentation, I've set up a CloudFront distribution at berlin-mirror.marusich.info that uses berlin.guixsd.org as its origin server. Let's repeat these steps to measure the performance of the distribution from my machine's perspective (before I did this, I made sure the GET would result in a cache hit by downloading the substitute once before and verifying that the same remote IP address was used): =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- $ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z9zd= hivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 2>/dev/null url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z9z= dhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 13.32.254.57 remote_port: 443 size_download: 69899433 B speed_download: 9821474.000 B/s time_appconnect: 0.607593 s time_connect: 0.532417 s time_namelookup: 0.511086 s time_pretransfer: 0.608029 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 0.663578 s time_total: 7.117266 s $ sudo mtr -c 10 --report-wide --tcp -P 443 berlin-mirror.marusich.info Start: 2018-12-08T17:04:48-0800 HOST: localhost.localdomain Loss% Snt Last Avg= Best Wrst StDev [... I've omitted the intermediate hops because they aren't relevant ...] 14.|-- server-52-84-21-199.sea32.r.cloudfront.net 0.0% 10 19.8 20= .3 14.3 28.9 4.9 =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Establishing the TCP connection took about 21 ms (which matches the mtr output), and the throughput was about 79 megabits per second. (On this machine, 100 Mbps is the current link speed, according to dmesg output.) This means that in my case, when using CloudFront the latency is 10x lower, and the throughput (for a cache hit) is 2x higher, than using berlin.guixsd.org directly! It would be interesting to see what the performance is for others. Ricardo Wurmus writes: > Large ISPs also provide CDN services. I already contacted Deutsche > Telekom so that we can compare their CDN offer with the Amazon Cloudfont > setup that Chris has configured. That's great! There are many CDN services out there. I am unfamiliar with most of them. It will be good to see how Deutsche Telekom's offering compares to CloudFront. FYI, CloudFront has edge locations in the following parts of the world: https://aws.amazon.com/cloudfront/features/ Hartmut Goebel writes: > Am 03.12.2018 um 17:12 schrieb Ludovic Court=C3=A8s: >> Thus, I=E2=80=99m thinking about using a similar setup, but hosting the = mirror >> on some Big Corp CDN or similar. > > Isn't this a contradiction: Building a free infrastructure relaying on > servers from some Big Corporation? Let allow the privacy concerns > raising when delivering data via some Big Corporation. > > If delivering "packages" works via static data without requiring any > additional service, we could ask universities to host Guix, too. IMHO > this is a much preferred solution since this is a decentralized publish > infrastructure already in place for many GNU/Linux distributions. I understand your concern about using a third-party service. However, we wouldn't be using a CDN as a "software substitute", which is one of the primary risks of using a web service today: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html Instead, we would be using a CDN as a performance optimization that is transparent to a Guix user. You seem unsettled by the idea of entrusting any part of substitute delivery to a third party, but concretely what risks do you foresee? Regarding your suggestion to ask universities to host mirrors (really, caching proxies), I think it could be a good idea. As Leo mentioned, the configuration to set up an NGINX caching proxy of Hydra (or berlin) is freely available in maintenance.git. Do you think we could convince some universities to host caching proxies that just run an NGINX web server using those configurations? If we can accomplish that, it may still be helpful. If there is interest in going down this path, I can explore some possibilities in the Seattle area. If the university-owned caching proxies are easily discoverable (i.e., we list them on the website), then users might manually set their substitute URL to point to one that's close by. Going further, if our DNS provider supports something like "geolocation routing" for DNS queries, we might even be able to create DNS records for ci.guix.info that point to those universities' caching proxies. In this way, when a user resolves ci.guix.info, they would get the address of a university-owned caching proxy close by. This could have the benefits of requiring less money than a full-fledged CDN like Amazon CloudFront, and also decentralizing the substitute delivery, while still remaining transparent to Guix users. However, it would still require us to rely on a third-party DNS service. For example, Amazon Route 53 provides this sort of geolocation routing: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/Route53/latest/DeveloperGuide/routing-policy.ht= ml#routing-policy-geo I wouldn't be surprised if there are other DNS providers out there who offer something similar. However, I also wouldn't be surprised if the overall performance of CloudFront turns out to be better. "Thompson, David" writes: > If AWS CloudFront is the path chosen, it may be worthwhile to follow > the "infrastructure as code" practice and use CloudFormation to > provision the CloudFront distribution and any other supporting > resources. The benefit is that there would be a record of exactly > *how* the project is using these commercial services and the setup > could be easily reproduced. The timing is interesting here because I > just attended the annual AWS conference on behalf of my employer and > while I was there I felt inspired to write a Guile API for building > CloudFormation "stacks". You can see a small sample of what it does > here: https://gist.github.com/davexunit/db4b9d3e67902216fbdbc66cd9c6413e Nice! That seems useful. I will have to play with it. I created my distributions manually using the AWS Management Console, since it's relatively easy to do. I agree it would be better to practice "infrastructure as code." On that topic, I've also heard good things about Terraform by HashiCorp, which is available under the Mozilla Public License 2.0: https://github.com/hashicorp/terraform Here is a comparison of Terraform and CloudFormation: https://www.terraform.io/intro/vs/cloudformation.html I looked briefly into packaging Terraform for Guix. It's written in Go. It seems possible, but I haven't invested enough time yet. As a final option, since the AWS CLI is already packaged in Guix, we could just drive CloudFormation or CloudFront directly from the CLI. Meiyo Peng writes: > I like the idea of IPFS. We should try it. It would be great if it works > well. > > If at some point we need to setup traditional mirrors like other major > Gnu/Linux distros, I can contact my friends in China to setup mirrors in > several universities. I was a member of LUG@USTC, which provides the > largest FLOSS mirror in China. IPFS would be neat. So would Gnunet. Heck, even a publication mechanism using good old BitTorrent would be nice. All of these would require changes to Guix, I suppose. A CDN would require no changes to Guix, and that's part of why it's so appealing. =2D-=20 Chris --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEy/WXVcvn5+/vGD+x3UCaFdgiRp0FAlwMjP0ACgkQ3UCaFdgi Rp0CrQ//fg4wLWX9FsZ4N03FuXwKscGFwUjqHic1cxXv9bjygDsHLwzxVaKxYf9t IZ93XHdBwSmsFPn+CUO4jhJ0MetQUumJmUr6XZRLEmS70XBuCh1iHibVj7YhPf3a +jHCmbkjVIHTY2VOiN3tR/pFcmtehn4Uma6ZZ4PZgaRNoxDxLiFEM/Fmv0v+mslV ZqGyQmiEC97I67XMFkLvPmB2p0yfJD/oFRtEd0saMLPuFsdrSk2g+OADiUrKIJr+ GRgBsBAP9VLqUfzlM5K6GqVQO9917bB93OnCMQz89ak47GQ27FiZZs3toK0QplyF YhXYPofOvb/zyy1qdrlSlhuXUjQXs/v6sa3TMxi1d0XCLcOR551qHie/tu8nQiZU cUxINBrRwkKngjaR0cEKfjLP8cAYoweuljyfe+LqIjFny+vQLEOipLOIzZBir3j3 qvl9rjy3McZkQoTy38+fS1ti8jj5TDzpwugpPxU3KpSW/HmZCE+O+IOGaDctWC4m ElWnnQNX6+INA7jl4RbYUqSobOV+OHZw1GZXO4YelUMVUBLEftmWXY3Pw/CrSDbY cz5v/WJNVS/Kzc0clsKyBG3OgvAPhXdvmKZi6cQfOgwGUfvCIJC9ONnT81qMIHnB LN5ZSaMduWwkXDxYCyJBVRG+AZEHN0F46eLttsALTkEdrVTbCCA= =H3rW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 09 08:59:04 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Dec 2018 13:59:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39345 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gVzbr-0007sJ-S9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2018 08:59:04 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39695) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gVzbp-0007ri-P9 for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2018 08:59:02 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gVzbj-0005zC-GE for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2018 08:58:56 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:40893) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gVzbh-0005yB-5P; Sun, 09 Dec 2018 08:58:53 -0500 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=48268 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gVzbg-0003GF-Su; Sun, 09 Dec 2018 08:58:53 -0500 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Hartmut Goebel Subject: Re: Using a CDN or some other mirror? References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 19 Frimaire an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2018 14:58:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Hartmut Goebel's message of "Sun, 9 Dec 2018 13:12:20 +0100") Message-ID: <87pnua244k.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: Chris Marusich , "Thompson, David" , Ricardo Wurmus , Meiyo Peng , guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Hi Hartmut, Hartmut Goebel skribis: > Am 09.12.2018 um 04:33 schrieb Chris Marusich: >> Instead, we would be using a CDN as a performance optimization that is >> transparent to a Guix user. You seem unsettled by the idea of >> entrusting any part of substitute delivery to a third party, but >> concretely what risks do you foresee? > > I have serious privacy concerns. > > TL;DR: A CDN is a centralized infrastructure, allowing to collect > information about valuable vulnerability information of almost all > Guix-users and -systems. This is might become a thread to freedom of > speech, human rights, democracy and economics. Guix should build on a > decentralized infrastructure. Heck it would be ironic to find myself arguing in favor of centralized commercial services. So I won=E2=80=99t do that. :-) Clearly, I do understand the concerns you list. As a maintainer, I=E2=80= =99m looking for solutions that can address real problems (availability of substitutes and bandwidth) while not being a threat to our user=E2=80=99s privacy and security. The operator of a substitute server (or caching proxy), in general, knows which IPs downloaded vulnerable software. This is the main threat. This can be mitigated by talking to nearby mirrors and not just ci.guix.info, a feature we implemented a year ago (see ), or by using several substitute servers, or by not using (or not always using) substitutes. Few distros have all these options. We might also be able to somehow balance requests between several CDNs or mirrors. But again, medium- to long-term, the goal is to move towards IPFS or GNUnet/Bittorrent. IPFS is attractive because it would probably require no modifications to =E2=80=98guix substitutes=E2=80=99 and only minor chang= es to =E2=80=98guix publish=E2=80=99 since the IPFS daemon has an HTTP interface. >> Regarding your suggestion to ask universities to host mirrors (really, >> caching proxies), I think it could be a good idea. As Leo mentioned, >> the configuration to set up an NGINX caching proxy of Hydra (or berlin) >> is freely available in maintenance.git. Do you think we could convince >> some universities to host caching proxies that just run an NGINX web >> server using those configurations? > > The difference is: For a traditional "ftp"-mirror, an organization just > needs to add another source to its existing configuration and administer > to the save way as all other mirrors. Whereas for a caching proxy they > need to change the setup of the web-server and learn how to administer > the cache. This difference might make it difficult to convince > organizations to mirror. > > I could try and ask a few organizations in my area, but I would need > figures for this. What would you need to know? =E2=80=98guix weather=E2=80=99 can provide in= fo about storage size. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 09 10:59:39 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Dec 2018 15:59:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40142 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gW1UV-00039t-R7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2018 10:59:39 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36021) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gW1UT-00039Q-Tr for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2018 10:59:34 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gW1UN-0007Kb-GL for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2018 10:59:28 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:42661) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gW1UH-0007GD-6k; Sun, 09 Dec 2018 10:59:21 -0500 Received: from [109.190.253.16] (port=58118 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gW1UF-00079Z-Qx; Sun, 09 Dec 2018 10:59:21 -0500 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Chris Marusich Subject: CDN performance References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 19 Frimaire an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2018 16:59:13 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> (Chris Marusich's message of "Sat, 08 Dec 2018 19:33:17 -0800") Message-ID: <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: Hartmut Goebel , "Thompson, David" , Ricardo Wurmus , Meiyo Peng , guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Hello Chris, Chris Marusich skribis: > Regarding DNS, it would be nice if we could use an official GNU > subdomain. If we can't use a GNU subdomain, we should at least make > sure we have some kind of DNS auto-renewal set up so that nobody can > poach our domain names. And the operators should take appropriate > precautions when sharing any credentials used for managing it all. Agreed. Regarding the GNU sub-domain, as I replied to Meiyo, I=E2=80=99m in favor o= f it, all we need is someone to champion setting it up. > Regarding CDNs, I definitely think it's worth a try! Even Debian is > using CloudFront (cloudfront.debian.net). In fact, email correspondence > suggests that as of 2013, Amazon may even have been paying for it! > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-cloud/2013/05/msg00071.html (Note that debian.net is not Debian, and =E2=80=9Cthere=E2=80=99s no cloud,= only other people=E2=80=99s computer=E2=80=9D as the FSFE puts it.) > Although I don't doubt that a CDN will perform better than what we have > now, I do think it would be good to measure the performance so that we > know for sure the money spent is actually providing a benefit. It would > be nice to have some data before and after to measure how availability > and performance have changed. Apart from anecdotes, what data do we > have to determine whether performance has improved after introducing a > CDN? For example, the following information could be useful: > > * Network load on the origin server(s) > * Clients' latency to (the addresses pointed to by) ci.guix.info > * Clients' throughput while downloading substitutes from ci.guix.info Note that performance is one aspect; another one is availability (we=E2=80= =99ve seen that with the recent hydra.gnu.org outage!). We know we=E2=80=99ll al= ways win in terms of availability by having a CDN in front of our servers. That said, measuring performance is very useful and it=E2=80=99s great that= we can benefit from your expertise here! > Here, it took 0.459667 - 0.254210 =3D 0.205457 seconds (about 205 ms) to > establish the TCP connection after the DNS lookup. The average > throughput was 1924285 bytes per second (about 40 megabits per second, > where 1 megabit =3D 10^6 bits). It seems my connection to berlin is > already pretty good! Indeed. The bandwidth problem on berlin is when you=E2=80=99re the first to download a nar and it=E2=80=99s not been cached by nginx yet. In that case= , you get very low bandwidth (like 10 times less than when the item is cached by nginx.) I=E2=80=99ve looked into it, went as far as strace=E2=80=99ing = nginx, but couldn=E2=80=99t find the reason of this. Do you any idea? > Establishing the TCP connection took about 21 ms (which matches the mtr > output), and the throughput was about 79 megabits per second. (On this > machine, 100 Mbps is the current link speed, according to dmesg output.) > This means that in my case, when using CloudFront the latency is 10x > lower, and the throughput (for a cache hit) is 2x higher, than using > berlin.guixsd.org directly! Impressive. > It would be interesting to see what the performance is for others. I=E2=80=99ve tried this from home (in France, with FTTH): --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- $ measure_get https://berlin.guixsd.org/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz= 2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 2>/dev/null url_effective: https://berlin.guixsd.org/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhs= z2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 141.80.181.40 remote_port: 443 size_download: 69899433 B speed_download: 1522001.000 B/s time_appconnect: 0.178892 s time_connect: 0.049649 s time_namelookup: 0.000422 s time_pretransfer: 0.178934 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 0.278312 s time_total: 45.926021 s $ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z9zd= hivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 2>/dev/null url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z9z= dhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 2600:9000:2116:6e00:c:49d4:5a80:93a1 remote_port: 443 size_download: 69899433 B speed_download: 20803402.000 B/s time_appconnect: 0.552008 s time_connect: 0.482477 s time_namelookup: 0.467598 s time_pretransfer: 0.552157 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 0.735758 s time_total: 3.360500 s --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Wall-clock time is less than a tenth; woow. Thanks for sharing your insight and scripts! Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 09 12:47:57 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Dec 2018 17:47:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40204 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gW3BM-00063m-PW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2018 12:47:57 -0500 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:51376) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gVxwf-00030y-Am for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2018 07:12:26 -0500 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43CQ7X1FFhz1qx9d; Sun, 9 Dec 2018 13:12:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43CQ7W716Zz1qqkq; Sun, 9 Dec 2018 13:12:23 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ujUJKWIumd_y; Sun, 9 Dec 2018 13:12:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermia.goebel-consult.de (ppp-83-171-174-165.dynamic.mnet-online.de [83.171.174.165]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Sun, 9 Dec 2018 13:12:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from thisbe.goebel-consult.de (hermia.goebel-consult.de [192.168.110.7]) by hermia.goebel-consult.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D5BA6009D; Sun, 9 Dec 2018 13:15:54 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Using a CDN or some other mirror? To: Chris Marusich , =?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=c3=a8s?= , Ricardo Wurmus , "Thompson, David" , Meiyo Peng References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> From: Hartmut Goebel Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 13:12:20 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------712C3F35168E6E299DE36121" Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 09 Dec 2018 12:47:55 -0500 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------712C3F35168E6E299DE36121 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Am 09.12.2018 um 04:33 schrieb Chris Marusich: > Instead, we would be using a CDN as a performance optimization that is > transparent to a Guix user. You seem unsettled by the idea of > entrusting any part of substitute delivery to a third party, but > concretely what risks do you foresee? I have serious privacy concerns. TL;DR: A CDN is a centralized infrastructure, allowing to collect information about valuable vulnerability information of almost all Guix-users and -systems. This is might become a thread to freedom of speech, human rights, democracy and economics. Guix should build on a decentralized infrastructure. A distribution provider gets a notion which system is running which software in which version. In case of guix, the provider even gets the exact version of the software and all its dependencies. Combining this with the rise of IPv6, which per default uses the MAC address as part of the IP address, actually allows identifying a single system. This information is extremely valuable for all kinds of attackers as it eases attacking a system a lot. This becomes a thread to * to opposition members, dissidents and human rights activists as the intelligent agencies can target these persons much more precisely, * to companies all over the world as many countries do industrial espionage. This becomes even worst when using a CDN, since the CDN is a centralized system: A single CDN provider gains knowledge for almost all systems all over the world. Which means: this valuable vulnerability information is collected at a single place. Intelligence agencies might be keen on getting access to this information and a centralized system makes it easy for them. And there is evidence they actually collect this information [*]. This gets even worse when the CDN belongs to one of these companies compiling personal profiles, like Google, Facebook or Tencent. Amazon belongs to this group. I have the strong opinion that Guix should build on a decentralized infrastructure to support keeping the freedom of speech, democracy and human rights. [*] Actually it is known the US-American intelligence agencies have equipment placed at Verizon to collect all kind of data [1]. One can reason the same is true for other big providers in the US. The USA has the FISA act AFAIU enforcing US companies to collaborate in industrial espionage. In Germany it is known that the BND is extracting high-volume data at the central internet exchange (DE-CIX) [2]. One can reason such also happens in other countries, esp. members of the five-eyes, France, Russia, China, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Irak, etc. > Regarding your suggestion to ask universities to host mirrors (really, > caching proxies), I think it could be a good idea. As Leo mentioned, > the configuration to set up an NGINX caching proxy of Hydra (or berlin) > is freely available in maintenance.git. Do you think we could convince > some universities to host caching proxies that just run an NGINX web > server using those configurations? The difference is: For a traditional "ftp"-mirror, an organization just needs to add another source to its existing configuration and administer to the save way as all other mirrors. Whereas for a caching proxy they need to change the setup of the web-server and learn how to administer the cache. This difference might make it difficult to convince organizations to mirror. I could try and ask a few organizations in my area, but I would need figures for this. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-23123964 or search the internet for e.g. "cia verizon espionage" [2] https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Gerichtsurteil-BND-darf-weiterhin-Internet-Knoten-De-CIX-anzapfen-4061494.html [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act [4] -- +++hartmut | Hartmut Goebel | | | hartmut@goebel-consult.de | www.goebel-consult.de | --------------712C3F35168E6E299DE36121 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Am 09.12.2018 um 04:33 schrieb Chris Marusich:
Instead, we would be using a CDN as a performance optimization that is
transparent to a Guix user.  You seem unsettled by the idea of
entrusting any part of substitute delivery to a third party, but
concretely what risks do you foresee?

I have serious privacy concerns.

TL;DR: A CDN is a centralized infrastructure, allowing to collect information about valuable vulnerability information of almost all Guix-users and -systems. This is might become a thread to freedom of speech, human rights, democracy and economics. Guix should build on a decentralized infrastructure.

A distribution provider gets a notion which system is running which software in which version. In case of guix, the provider even gets the exact version of the software and all its dependencies. Combining this with the rise of IPv6, which per default uses the MAC address as part of the IP address, actually allows identifying a single system.

This information is extremely valuable for all kinds of attackers as it eases attacking a system a lot. This becomes a thread to
  • to opposition members, dissidents and human rights activists as the intelligent agencies can target these persons much more precisely,
  • to companies all over the world as many countries do industrial espionage.
This becomes even worst when using a CDN, since the CDN is a centralized system: A single CDN provider gains knowledge for almost all systems all over the world. Which means: this valuable vulnerability information is collected at a single place. Intelligence agencies might be keen on getting access to this information and a centralized system makes it easy for them. And there is evidence they actually collect this information [*].

This gets even worse when the CDN belongs to one of these companies compiling personal profiles, like Google, Facebook or Tencent. Amazon belongs to this group.

I have the strong opinion that Guix should build on a decentralized infrastructure to support keeping the freedom of speech, democracy and human rights.

[*] Actually it is known the US-American intelligence agencies have equipment placed at Verizon to collect all kind of data [1]. One can reason the same is true for other big providers in the US. The USA has the FISA act AFAIU enforcing US companies to collaborate in industrial espionage. In Germany it is known that the BND is extracting high-volume data at the central internet exchange (DE-CIX) [2]. One can reason such also happens in other countries, esp. members of the five-eyes, France, Russia, China, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Irak, etc.

Regarding your suggestion to ask universities to host mirrors (really,
caching proxies), I think it could be a good idea.  As Leo mentioned,
the configuration to set up an NGINX caching proxy of Hydra (or berlin)
is freely available in maintenance.git.  Do you think we could convince
some universities to host caching proxies that just run an NGINX web
server using those configurations?

The difference is: For a traditional "ftp"-mirror, an organization just needs to add another source to its existing configuration and administer to the save way as all other mirrors. Whereas for a caching proxy they need to change the setup of the web-server and learn how to administer the cache. This difference might make it difficult to convince organizations to mirror.

I could try and ask a few organizations in my area, but I would need figures for this.


[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-23123964 or search the internet for e.g. "cia verizon espionage"
[2] https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Gerichtsurteil-BND-darf-weiterhin-Internet-Knoten-De-CIX-anzapfen-4061494.html
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act
[4] 

-- 
+++hartmut

| Hartmut Goebel            |                       |
| hartmut@goebel-consult.de | www.goebel-consult.de |
--------------712C3F35168E6E299DE36121-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 00:17:18 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2018 05:17:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42630 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gWaQ2-0001ZE-5z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 00:17:18 -0500 Received: from mail-pl1-f175.google.com ([209.85.214.175]:34553) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gWaPz-0001Yy-BT for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 00:17:16 -0500 Received: by mail-pl1-f175.google.com with SMTP id w4so6382870plz.1 for <33600@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 21:17:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=2JqwkOMRMBZK6yrNA2XkYVXJ1DFAN62vfGTStc6zx0c=; b=CwNqGJ54oCDIvOBoi87CMCMd3MhFnZsugGuEi0o0xsoQawLNyjWBomd/885L1lAJYm L02Ibp259JNimMVnHa85Hhe992TrrqtSOutfGwEP+KMIwmW7ea8arHWV5qNkkxH7fEFz yLYV3l+k/1DmgQahsW6KKChSIeCGiIcxxMXlCHbjMMZg/Yrk3844ibj2+Ti1n+lu6Q6L OpID7kw3YCiwbo5c0zayJzsWbwAIE7iTY9zzVNwH93JOuT3Ww6wvJw3TaH0pVzEDHUvF eMKo4YqlEWgDN3ZYOXJtrR/rWDqCPo18lvtzDJJj5jBTVZ0Btz2djxLwXDENoSxuocG3 KZ7w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=2JqwkOMRMBZK6yrNA2XkYVXJ1DFAN62vfGTStc6zx0c=; b=hQkd6XtH3wuUlecdRrMNJLQ/fwEEazKW4OBwKO4RSXsj3u4iNIiDct52cpdeQHiiRz MpxP1Wnuo1ky6ZEFiRoHE+jPFbHDQCsWp0nyly/5D3ysQwJR5kFhVp6lUn5Q3fuGiI58 kggyje9VJfF2PBUKk1rxpX5igyCQEPjLCMMw8jZXJ8iAkJyH7JNeanWvPyZkDtSPJF0N v6xbeU4eBHCk7tWZFHoB876M1uN4h1fvGaPBM4rTY3L5VYxOL/OJR7Qt+teqcr3oSKYH aNDNhSxh5zGWHdWljhleR20KxdyFClApSZjzY23LQMjEk9OPpypPrY9b943+w4ORkNO9 YJaA== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZdnVV8BXg6JbEJfONPOXaOPad1gX+97O+e5kedhpfG028NVdYt HKVvJKzyUL+sPPFziYEyG3k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/XVe8rDi+X0eSmeFj1lj0hkYtc8rSaipaUrcgVCYVG8dD9+YkXrttIQdi90Xsmx/XGJSq+HBg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b406:: with SMTP id x6mr14066393plr.329.1544505429402; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 21:17:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from dinosaur (110.242.201.35.bc.googleusercontent.com. [35.201.242.110]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 12sm13123923pgd.35.2018.12.10.21.17.07 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 10 Dec 2018 21:17:08 -0800 (PST) From: Meiyo Peng To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: CDN performance References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 13:17:05 +0800 In-Reply-To: <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> ("Ludovic \=\?utf-8\?Q\?Court\=C3\=A8s\?\= \=\?utf-8\?Q\?\=22's\?\= message of "Sun, 09 Dec 2018 16:59:13 +0100") Message-ID: <874lbk63se.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, I have changed my mind. I don't care about the domain name of the default substitute server any more. I am more worried about the network speed within China. While I am writing this email, my computer is downloading substitutes from ci.guix.info at an average speed of about 50kB/s. After careful thought, I realized the new CDN won't benefit China residents as planned. Any popular CDN outside China is significantly throttled by ISP/GFW and the situation is worse every year. A CDN will be a great improvement for western countries but not for many asia countries. I have been running a nginx caching mirror at home since the first time I met guix. My first attempt to install guix took me one afternoon and one night. Most of the time was wasted on downloading substitutes. After that, I searched online and found the nginx mirror configuration in guix/maintenance.git. Then I set up my own caching mirror. It would be extremely painful for me to play with guix during these months without this caching mirror. Debian was my favorite GNU/Linux distro before I discovered Guix. It usually costs me only 30 minutes to install Debian from scratch. Other GNU/Linux distros are about the same. If guix takes more than 5 hours to install, most new users will be scared away. Although now there are only a few Chinese guix users, I still prefer to set up a caching mirror within China. The user experience improvement will be significant. Like Hartmut Goebel described, I need information about "expected storage demand, expected transfer traffic from upstream, how often updates are published, how long to hold copies" so I can write a proposal to maintainers of mirrors.ustc.edu.cn to add a new mirror for guix. I tried the `guix weather` command, but it failed with an error: #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE computing 8,821 package derivations for x86_64-linux... guix weather: error: lstat: No such file or directory: "/src/config/packages/patches/libjxr-add-cmakelists-file.patch" #+END_EXAMPLE Can anyone provide the numbers for me? The numbers of mirror.hydra.gnu.org would be a good reference. In addition, I think we should put up a page on guix's website providing information about available substitute servers including address, backend build farm, geolocation, maintainer, so users (many asia residents) can pick the best substitute server for themselves. This will be necessary until alternative solutions like IPFS or GNUnet are implemented. This email only describes the situation in China. I don't intend to discourage you on the CDN plan. There is no conflicts between my proposal to set up a caching mirror in China and our plan to set up a new CDN. -- Meiyo Peng From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 00:59:33 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2018 05:59:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42635 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gWb4v-0002pT-Hy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 00:59:33 -0500 Received: from mail-pl1-f181.google.com ([209.85.214.181]:46703) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gWb4t-0002pD-5y for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 00:59:31 -0500 Received: by mail-pl1-f181.google.com with SMTP id t13so6403072ply.13 for <33600@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 21:59:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:references:cc:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=36aWDhqGZxok60zU42inMvP4F44ONEzclk5doKvvI6c=; b=kNH3y+uhYmoHBHeyaaYYax4Gmss8rJKoCAsWUdHeqKvUfwL8rRFYIqraVpI7DnBdGl YiYm9SReM9ej+i7lxJmrfCA1H7IaaEooI5nwwBCKfQtcY6QAWfNO3c6SczQEH/061uKT ku4B0tvmed1uDyso25bjvkeNDcz5ISP3jlz/z4WKCp/DjI+9mPtgld8SmnxIbFOUWcS7 3q/l8tfosNA1aIfuhOq0JLNeMWUtcJwj0ZNX1B+E97F5sBM15l3gD9cPoc5TxB5zZReZ 11k5oNKZjw2kmtIK5x8wQL2FkF0FhOn5xJ2Q72X8S4za2uPvEfrUfwOTdKtwZeYg9Wcn X2lw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:references:cc:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=36aWDhqGZxok60zU42inMvP4F44ONEzclk5doKvvI6c=; b=nD6prPIa7Dg4bd/buMfuMjSQ05CFRrS3Hb2xWLxiAIjtL7pqar76+bNoMRx47fEdjJ XC6/PhoAkOPEPBbMTkcafC/Bh784q5wZOnQC99nThkageDG0DPD5w7GeiMsbmO9qfjWK uA3tULT+TUH3e1R0zurKams8tyP9vtFc9Mg4E7L8WqjE8dqvA3dURwcjbSoNFiJZP501 +vsp6OpBpU80KuXAvhHcLb/OYO2nnG7HumFQQEeYXRGCZQxxGcFLXcWigp6WBiigj3kF PlEr26YvvGZuFRBWTSWZe6KlBuzWJXs0uhXZriAMHbcQOJ+DbcPteedRAvDTpvJAAU7B FwDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWawlW561o0uqROuouVYWxWOQxqnQT7S876gcodmlfRaSqXoxuDX uObADd9fLrpCqpf/jCHoyR+rmzix X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/WycA9LmbBXTPdS6qiOWvMURbFce4tJR/vRyoDkF4ih5J33yMp/Jx8r9NwiFWriL2gera9Bbw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:2a0a:: with SMTP id i10mr14554473plb.323.1544507965065; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 21:59:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from dinosaur (110.242.201.35.bc.googleusercontent.com. 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[35.201.242.110]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h15sm14174777pgl.43.2018.12.10.22.14.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 10 Dec 2018 22:14:45 -0800 (PST) From: Meiyo Peng To: Zephyr Waitzman Subject: Re: CDN performance References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <874lbk63se.fsf@gmail.com> <87woog4n9i.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 14:14:43 +0800 In-Reply-To: (Zephyr Waitzman's message of "Tue, 11 Dec 2018 14:05:57 +0800") Message-ID: <87pnu84mjw.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) SGksDQoNClplcGh5ciBXYWl0em1hbiA8aUB3aTI0cmQubWw+IHdyaXRlczoNCg0KPiDku6XliY3l rpjmlrnnmoTmhaLmrbvkurrvvIzmnIDov5HnmoTor53lronoo4XpnaDnjoTlrabvvIjmib7ku6Xl iY3pgq7ku7bliJfooajph4znmoTlh6DkuKogc3Vic3RpdHVkZSDmjaLnnYDnlKjkuZ/lsLHpgqPm oLflkKfvvInvvIzlgbblsJTkvJrlh7rkuIDkupvvvIjmhJ/op4nkuI3lg4/mmK/nvZHnu5znmoTv vInpl67popjjgIINCj4g5Lul5ZCO5pyJ5pe26Ze05YaN5rex5YWl5a2m5Lmg5LiL44CCDQoNClRo YW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgeW91ciBmZWVkYmFjay4gVGhhdCBtZWFucyB3ZSBkbyBuZWVkIHRvIHNldCB1 cCBhIGNhY2hpbmcNCm1pcnJvciB3aXRoaW4gQ2hpbmEuDQoNCi0tDQpNZWl5byBQZW5nDQo= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 11:39:07 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2018 16:39:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44093 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gWl3o-0008H6-Ab for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 11:39:07 -0500 Received: from ns13.heimat.it ([46.4.214.66]:48802) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gWl3l-0008Ga-Ns for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 11:39:02 -0500 Received: from localhost (ip6-localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ns13.heimat.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id E04883000D2; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:38:55 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at ns13.heimat.it Received: from ns13.heimat.it ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns13.heimat.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JZMbKivvuGqu; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:38:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bourrache.mug.xelera.it (unknown [93.56.161.211]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by ns13.heimat.it (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 782763000CF; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:38:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from roquette.mug.biscuolo.net (roquette.mug.biscuolo.net [10.38.2.14]) by bourrache.mug.xelera.it (Postfix) with SMTP id AA820300056; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 17:38:34 +0100 (CET) Received: (nullmailer pid 27708 invoked by uid 1000); Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:38:34 -0000 From: Giovanni Biscuolo To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , Hartmut Goebel Subject: Re: Using a CDN or some other mirror? In-Reply-To: <87pnua244k.fsf@gnu.org> Organization: Xelera.eu References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <87pnua244k.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 17:38:27 +0100 Message-ID: <8736r4hvcs.fsf@roquette.mug.biscuolo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, my two cents... (I can't still help with a public cache, I hope soon...) Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: [...] >> TL;DR: A CDN is a centralized infrastructure, allowing to collect >> information about valuable vulnerability information of almost all >> Guix-users and -systems. This is might become a thread to freedom of >> speech, human rights, democracy and economics. Guix should build on a >> decentralized infrastructure. I completely agree with you, decentralization is the solution unfortunately the **only functioning** way is to avoid current Internet, since it's broken (https://youbroketheinternet.org/); I see GuixSD as an integral part of The Project Map=E2=84=A2 https://youbroketheinternet.org/m= ap ...but to fix the situation we need a substantial GNUnet(work) effect and for that we _need_ GuixSD substitutes to be easily and quickly downloaded (can we avoid this asking potential adopters to be patient or to build?) maybe we should divide this task in two steps: 1. distributed substitutes: caching servers hosted by a network of friendly institutions and companies donated to GNU/GuixSD, with a haproxy frontend for geolocated load-balancing [1] 2. decentralized substitutes: caching servers on IPFS or better (since it allows complete anonimity) on GNUnet > Heck it would be ironic to find myself arguing in favor of centralized > commercial services. So I won=E2=80=99t do that. :-) I see no problems with commercial services, _unfortunately_ nowadays this *almost* always means centralized silos, usually exploited for global surveillance (since Internet is broken) [...] > The operator of a substitute server (or caching proxy), in general, > knows which IPs downloaded vulnerable software. This is the main > threat. on Internet, and on IPFS? (sorry for the ignorance) on GNUNet filesharing can be completely anonymous, but the performace is degraded (so we need a large network effect here) > This can be mitigated by talking to nearby mirrors and not just > ci.guix.info, a feature we implemented a year ago (see > ), > or by using several substitute servers, or by not using (or not always > using) substitutes. Few distros have all these options. > > We might also be able to somehow balance requests between several CDNs > or mirrors. did someone explored an haproxy (with geolocation) solution? is there a wip-haproxy attempt? [...] HTH Giovanni [1] in the next few weeks I'm going to test an haproxy instance with geolocated ACLs following this directions https:/www.haproxy.com/blog/use-geoip-database-within-haproxy/ =2D-=20 Giovanni Biscuolo Xelera IT Infrastructures --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEERcxjuFJYydVfNLI5030Op87MORIFAlwP6AMACgkQ030Op87M ORJmUA/8CxtARpNArscx4wpAFv7NWjeqt4eeVX5NArl4N0rKTTz6TobOKY0TMe7u 5DCMxJWLzxY4U7qrGf0NLOsdA4O9L290JujVJ4UIaTUT4nlibIb4FQjUMF+2C2nD etHTvcNV4A/v0nqiA67NYeT0fqD13l7AMdqnYCg3iPBhWnCFxWNBlAU4uCGq/e43 bUdJ1pqlwYfUGg6vxKZAiun6FIUFWnGDAU46ewTxKzE8z4MEalB5tvWeRRIQwvu9 Y7LCyn2+9UjuthkWeYyawNil82z3DwgHJVk8OtBMjyCeqbXThD3Nj90Ix8EVo9NV LDwhqHVchomzDjXj/aRybdRwTRQuQxvwQsGhRXnm2WghWOjsbQ7X92fATIGZtmV3 Em0NzqvMfN6VUeuNqBWywtvUbJE91jjRQvqEW7YEsmA1tsf2JuwcdWWF0Lc5VA7n hbWzUHKLEvT1YOZB5oslOCCZDvFHIMMMgFrP1NaddF+kASm9ha5WxfEi4pYS3wgs Rk/Vz9vVE9JGZti42Za24RIKv7Ff0+2AJ+/8lUHKSKSTIQdlYd092rPQ4HeF11jo hFn0XNoHjX5lnOGLyk/rAgEaf8GvfsuPQD8p7m3tz5LLPiIkxBwEe1iZO8VPHD3F 2iG7Kv2gRcreZMAxPAD/m0ArW97OLU5WMeHkShvv1dk1/nD/ny8= =WG9l -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 13 02:11:45 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Dec 2018 07:11:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45744 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXL9p-0003XE-DE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 02:11:43 -0500 Received: from mail-pl1-f172.google.com ([209.85.214.172]:39310) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXL9n-0003Wz-2R for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 02:11:39 -0500 Received: by mail-pl1-f172.google.com with SMTP id 101so611436pld.6 for <33600@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 23:11:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=eWLuzGksn1iU2gIkdlfZzTttTXDnOUgvjfcofbO1pzk=; b=lAJ3n644wrt+wsPVt5Whq5cqZMg5EK8plW8gV9Ob4Gcl81mPiyhd6AwOpFCgthaI0U zRDZza4czklE4jlzAEIPsIO2yv5E05JTyKl0iLzJr2x48Oe8kYyBB0eKhN87V1MCRLKv uHn7XW/cmV4hNW2mvhoxLjSMaFPsv5rN4jqbzewkmKAPAjVfX4u5UZWotJheFy1DmL4I AWcrtQ7i0cz53NJ8i/i4bPZuyTeyPMK7x4GnhEfRYCG1r3/j/c65c78DPlHAuqi873z2 va2h2CpIejsnUbb2AV51VQR1zrXqlIyIk6UOogW1vg4jr2SMRBIUpGkdQYsEi/kfVHKX u5EQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=eWLuzGksn1iU2gIkdlfZzTttTXDnOUgvjfcofbO1pzk=; b=VwshDnmQNxQ3sLCFT9CSC5dwhZQkaDwJY6sVpVTqACToefgVE6MS1XB0K+BKKIBo0P JvyOAmXR+LJjkEX/y5t7h06ESgK0etk8FaAJUKkgsafuVZ59fkvtBX2jKGA9s9YMBLf2 UBoVOyq6OV7GDf+yiPKHOvCrKrww6fnT2O4bNGytWFa9XBUB49nGrUS6Amim6RicSvxf I/Jwr898KOu/nu0HwUCSAAOLHiw5VCBrNF7PC6jXTGz2/EVXPzrABBowPB1wGbmlE8Wh h2G3r1/roD1siFTXthWpCtJw0HwHED+3t4x3+zo4UsiOSH63X7aeGewzEvl1NzcBlPrx Vm3w== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWaxcN+rMAgBj0nv9CgImWu8jmj5XT52a7J2zerSDKlIby+5Q0PY f3yAeb9D82e6HZpGwlIJu9BwPMfK X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/WHUYOOGdPLRts/3i/RjOM62dDQy9kExhFppZajBacN/MiniFCzw+XNobXa1Qt2MiIuOPfqqg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:622:: with SMTP id 31mr22205117plg.171.1544685092633; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 23:11:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from garuda.local (c-73-53-106-26.hsd1.wa.comcast.net. [73.53.106.26]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 125sm1263846pfx.159.2018.12.12.23.11.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 12 Dec 2018 23:11:31 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Marusich To: Meiyo Peng Subject: Re: CDN performance References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <874lbk63se.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 23:11:25 -0800 In-Reply-To: <874lbk63se.fsf@gmail.com> (Meiyo Peng's message of "Tue, 11 Dec 2018 13:17:05 +0800") Message-ID: <877egdyk82.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Meiyo Peng writes: > After careful thought, I realized the new CDN won't benefit China > residents as planned. Any popular CDN outside China is significantly > throttled by ISP/GFW and the situation is worse every year. A CDN will > be a great improvement for western countries but not for many asia > countries. Could you try running the measure_get shell function I included in the following email? https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2018-12/msg00192.html For convenience, here is the definition: =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- measure_get () { curl -L \ -o /dev/null \ -w "url_effective: %{url_effective}\\n\ http_code: %{http_code}\\n\ num_connects: %{num_connects}\\n\ num_redirects: %{num_redirects}\\n\ remote_ip: %{remote_ip}\\n\ remote_port: %{remote_port}\\n\ size_download: %{size_download} B\\n\ speed_download: %{speed_download} B/s\\n\ time_appconnect: %{time_appconnect} s\\n\ time_connect: %{time_connect} s\\n\ time_namelookup: %{time_namelookup} s\\n\ time_pretransfer: %{time_pretransfer} s\\n\ time_redirect: %{time_redirect} s\\n\ time_starttransfer: %{time_starttransfer} s\\n\ time_total: %{time_total} s\\n" \ "$1" } =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Specifically, I am curious to know what performance you get when you run measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z9zd= hivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 from a computer in China. Please be sure to run it two times in a row, to ensure that CloudFront has cached the object. CloudFront has edge locations in Hong Kong, so I am curious to know what performance improvement, if any, you observe. =2D-=20 Chris --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEy/WXVcvn5+/vGD+x3UCaFdgiRp0FAlwSBh0ACgkQ3UCaFdgi Rp1GYg/8DlO2r7vzsG/EZ2W6roDRqEEyIaAcMLr7C2x1Xeu/U9xRuC3DKbfNR2qr xDKmOW4EzknoClEXusKyNH1IrlxHvttGPGpoW8IxacTU1gqZxMjkg3oEn61FQcuI TyN3QgITIpea37ohf2D7QhLpzItC5yhALFf39oN98Syv5u07YDqRHOYJHGsOxwC+ HsBO+ZDnyIPPxc8qArCj2yUO4+u4ecLradM6ELqnl0jR3mxpAXrsPv+a1D6XTwkl WaxpyyJDbPQcTVLs2X6xsoabZBrE1mDI1CNO65gxLmDvNAg+/mBYvtgCXYS8AxDe NzGC3c+nccsXGlHN5drdevv7AG/yyodjY8y9L3ImcaFfeVe6GrftnMeCvFan4ktf 3YSZHRvsS0vuQibpqfwrCIP6kslWMgPETWEvcBMRdHlC/ucYZ0a+oLgORPbf79OB Y8V2AQKRmFaUa9IgzkvV+Mk8xSt/y/mu6kBpE7iBVpkj4jchnwWoi30FGZH+/uMd eJtfQ2GgeBbCsifs+N5xUCKPtqDDe+l6aUWsgVFJqED4jAOg52XdubvUXgpdkCPG Fjg21jjIaWmiykzDgcgYYvMFwxSHpc0w5BNoEqnqcfcSTbMjV6yPOQC7+ks5+ZZ1 V1l6ETooNv920YSrcnNnMAESkNgPbBZm5cFIte4bzx5mfneOZHA= =h//j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 13 03:05:23 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Dec 2018 08:05:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45760 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXLzn-0004pE-0L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 03:05:23 -0500 Received: from mail-pg1-f194.google.com ([209.85.215.194]:44776) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXLzj-0004oz-GJ for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 03:05:20 -0500 Received: by mail-pg1-f194.google.com with SMTP id t13so664156pgr.11 for <33600@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 00:05:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:message-id:user-agent :mime-version; bh=Jf835CkixZ41bOTFpEXYtXNcrYpUCcVZvj1OIOsmWKc=; b=QdO9d6L/DU9H7exVQztxijL/jz/EubIvsCmvuYhEv17geSEqWcXBLA0pzg7yX/yclH PLSqQINKAYC/8/32Ged7RALV/jn3XUIWXNDzwLr0Ks67aCfGooq28QlDydw03Z8EdB3K +4CQax94y/BPGhQdwUqlAMmsuSSCmzoejjLoio8FcxXSYeGDpTVsIZ2eu3Zz87+q7GMo sBGgE4sOPMipBUql6upsfoxMg7RAKLwg1Rv3f3buPCBHDhDGVZ2K6kIXb+yKzP55L+RZ PAAt6fG1lKpCXEnZ+UVbMG7ce4q3N6Bi+X7Yiyujygb4ag4NXrRjPrItx4WSbK39hVn9 RbFw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=Jf835CkixZ41bOTFpEXYtXNcrYpUCcVZvj1OIOsmWKc=; b=JsF20C+9XlbUsq3uTnWW4V9XUIpc/Ds6DbJBtgJ/7zjZGs8FWsrNaONyFGL2fr/pC6 8BAi+QzbPPi1E9kP8XYvfdK9Sko0RVdHKMxDHJNCTA1cucglhO3Ln2IzzofiNd7f1X1V tjXiE35c7d1EGFedPQuQpkZWXodSYS4fTWHWm09FG6QOC/LXcN71L1eks6gHAEaz1crb WHQ9St8IIvDSKhutJn+jriRNXlXzaUbma8mpac3vzcr3NeB0XJirgf4PWSknp5CRZHTd 6pPYPJXB94nhBGU/GKPOAoVmKlmHlhuXJ3Jphh0J8+i+JknU9h4ZTaPc40ngrSkW1j2T ar5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWYMxKePjmefsv3hx+i7dDhOAJxJcYjm/0ck/WNBwz2utsIO3ZiW J7ZcsgeUehbvjKN9+vL9JNw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/VCF+tgs6vUEZYJJFzkiRwa52XfZkMgmM2TD5IbgXw4OmWuropBb9tEnkapJlfPQKuJBz4bsQ== X-Received: by 2002:a63:e156:: with SMTP id h22mr21189917pgk.255.1544688313493; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 00:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from garuda.local (c-73-53-106-26.hsd1.wa.comcast.net. [73.53.106.26]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v191sm2870559pgb.77.2018.12.13.00.05.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 13 Dec 2018 00:05:11 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Marusich To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: CDN performance References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 00:05:06 -0800 Message-ID: <87y38tx365.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: Hartmut Goebel , "Thompson, David" , Ricardo Wurmus , Meiyo Peng , guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > Regarding the GNU sub-domain, as I replied to Meiyo, I=E2=80=99m in favor= of it, > all we need is someone to champion setting it up. I could help with this. Whom should I contact? >> Regarding CDNs, I definitely think it's worth a try! Even Debian is >> using CloudFront (cloudfront.debian.net). In fact, email correspondence >> suggests that as of 2013, Amazon may even have been paying for it! >> >> https://lists.debian.org/debian-cloud/2013/05/msg00071.html > > (Note that debian.net is not Debian, and =E2=80=9Cthere=E2=80=99s no clou= d, only other > people=E2=80=99s computer=E2=80=9D as the FSFE puts it.) I do try to avoid the term "cloud" whenever possible. It's hard to avoid when it's in the product name, though! A wise man once said, "A cloud in the mind is an obstacle to clear thinking." ;-) You may be right about debian.net. I don't know who owns that domain. It's confusing, since debian.org is definitely owned by the Debian project, and the following page says they're using Amazon CloudFront: https://deb.debian.org/ Maybe Debian still uses Amazon CloudFront, or maybe they don't any more. In any case, I've found the following email thread, which documents a thoughtful discussion regarding whether or not Debian should use a CDN. They discussed many of the same concerns we're discussing here. https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/10/msg00029.html A summary, in the middle of the long thread, is here: https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/10/msg00074.html Later, part of the thread broke off and continued here: https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2014/02/msg00001.html That's as far as I've read. Judging by that email thread, one of the reasons why Debian considered using a CDN was because they felt that the cost, in terms of people power, of maintaining their own "proto-CDN" infrastructure had grown too great. I believe it! I think it would be ill-advised for the Guix project to expend effort and capital on building and maintaining its own CDN. I think it would be wiser to focus on developing a decentralized substitute solution (GNUnet, IPFS, etc.). That said, I still think that today Guix should provide a third-party CDN option. For many Guix users, a CDN would improve performance and availability of substitutes. Contracting with a third party to provide the CDN service would require much less effort and capital than building and maintaining a CDN from scratch. This would also enable the project to focus more on building a decentralized substitute solution. And once that decentralized solution is ready, it will be easy to just "turn off" the CDN. I also understand Hartmut's concerns. The risks he points out are valid. Because of those risks, even if we make a third-party CDN option available, some people will choose not to use it. For that reason, we should not require Guix users to use a third-party CDN, just as we do not require them to use substitutes from our build farm. However, not everyone shares the same threat model. For example, although some people choose not to trust substitutes from our build farm, still others do. The choice is based on one's own individual situation. Similarly, if we make a third-party CDN option available and explain the risks of using it, Guix users will be able to make an educated decision for themselves about whether or not to use it. >> Here, it took 0.459667 - 0.254210 =3D 0.205457 seconds (about 205 ms) to >> establish the TCP connection after the DNS lookup. The average >> throughput was 1924285 bytes per second (about 40 megabits per second, >> where 1 megabit =3D 10^6 bits). It seems my connection to berlin is >> already pretty good! > > Indeed. The bandwidth problem on berlin is when you=E2=80=99re the first= to > download a nar and it=E2=80=99s not been cached by nginx yet. In that ca= se, you > get very low bandwidth (like 10 times less than when the item is cached > by nginx.) I=E2=80=99ve looked into it, went as far as strace=E2=80=99in= g nginx, but > couldn=E2=80=99t find the reason of this. > > Do you any idea? I made a typo here. The value "1924285" should have been "4945831", which is what measure_get printed. However, the intended result (40 Mbps) is still correct. Actually, I thought 40 megabits per second was pretty great for a single-threaded file transfer that originated in Europe (I think?) and terminated in Seattle (via my residential Comcast downlink). I requested that particular file many times before that final test run, so it was probably already cached by nginx. However, I believe you when you say that it's slow the first time you download the substitute from berlin. What path does the data take from its origin through berlin? If berlin needs to download the initial file from another server, perhaps the connection between berlin and that server is the bottleneck? Maybe we should discuss that in a different email thread, though. > I=E2=80=99ve tried this from home (in France, with FTTH): > > [...] > > speed_download: 20803402.000 B/s Wow, that's 166 megabits per second! I'm jealous. :-) > Wall-clock time is less than a tenth; woow. I expect others will see similar performance improvements, as long as they are close to the edge locations provided by Amazon CloudFront and their local ISP downlink is fast enough to see a benefit. Again, the edge locations are here: https://aws.amazon.com/cloudfront/features/ Here's a direct link to their current map: https://d1.awsstatic.com/global-infrastructure/maps/CloudFront%20Network%20= Map%2010.12.18.59e838df2f373247d2efaeb548076e084fd8993e.png =2D-=20 Chris --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEy/WXVcvn5+/vGD+x3UCaFdgiRp0FAlwSErIACgkQ3UCaFdgi Rp2YSw/8CEe20/+GGK08/1cvQz8VKeoDglWValQLJyFNAsuxhEd7W0f+1l5XNRq3 PZhQEvwffPWeM7l65HVeJH7fzJPk6RDTS20ifLG9SpOQ9Oeb1ER3QxOWg829rz9g h9G/KUyoPp7KZORQFI87BeGPBPhJdYjHRoZOOraYUdZzRU6Ve7dq5drn4f0salVI ZaN7AUs1Qwm18Osv3OEEyFa7uorIM0WpHKtiaYvWORQj/Ly4nz38aoAtSNIwg5ju hSZIt2wqjjIVpxjv2IDe7DsNI2j/9cr2ahFkXZje8sKFLOLPtyGQJDpD3VqM/3L7 LIhUowY0iqgUoe8L/2u5Nyc+wNFmQ3YNTbKTeOEms0e48gFW96KO42ED5GnA5pUf au1g8o2NusA5jYA0GTFDLPwvSc7Go9PY3j9gWOTurVA4CqPfsxrQ2nCLtkQ7KHbW z6ebD8WCusUAWQAVe+byNJ3dQvluK2ZhYektt8IhN5588Ys191ljVJLZ5mBThKdl /OhyzC7GzGehzvl38ohA/tcBYTA9QTA/xQXtZHnpI6wJXcnVByG//wmhwvoAEo+t NMk4cue+GOGTrbG0sQGQz0iv90IcY0EZVngOXRWqJvPl2cgiwmPbIOq2FSF0DAVT WRo1DKyPtVn2NgrkKARZActkPwpjyHvNeoJFO2r6NwZ1sSfW1bU= =kuJA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 13 05:41:36 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Dec 2018 10:41:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45857 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXOQy-0000Kz-Gv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 05:41:36 -0500 Received: from ns13.heimat.it ([46.4.214.66]:36830) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXOQw-0000Kl-FE for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 05:41:35 -0500 Received: from localhost (ip6-localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ns13.heimat.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43578300690; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 10:41:28 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at ns13.heimat.it Received: from ns13.heimat.it ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns13.heimat.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZB2Wf_5yiUc4; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 10:41:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bourrache.mug.xelera.it (unknown [93.56.161.211]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by ns13.heimat.it (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 97B703000CE; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 10:41:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from roquette.mug.biscuolo.net (roquette.mug.biscuolo.net [10.38.2.14]) by bourrache.mug.xelera.it (Postfix) with SMTP id BC866300056; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 11:41:07 +0100 (CET) Received: (nullmailer pid 2096 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 13 Dec 2018 10:41:07 -0000 From: Giovanni Biscuolo To: Chris Marusich , Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: CDN performance In-Reply-To: <87y38tx365.fsf@gmail.com> Organization: Xelera.eu References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87y38tx365.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 11:41:06 +0100 Message-ID: <878t0thfp9.fsf@roquette.mug.biscuolo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Chris, nice to see this discussion, IMHO how GuixSD subsitutes are distributed is a key issue in our ecosystem and is _all_ about privacy and metadata *mass* collection most "normal users" are not concerned about this so they are fine with super-centralization since it's a convenience... not us :-) personally I've come to GuixSD because I see this project as a key part in liberating me from this class of problems Chris Marusich writes: [...] > A summary, in the middle of the long thread, is here: > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/10/msg00074.html thank you for the reference, I've only read this summary the key part of it IMHO is "Q: Do CDNs raise more security/privacy concerns than our mirrors?" and the related subthread https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/10/msg00033.html the quick reply to the above question is: yes, CDNs raise more secutiry/privacy concerns than "distributed mirrors" obviuosly "distributed mirrors" _does_ rise some security/privacy concerns but *centralization*... much more [...] > Judging by that email thread, one of the reasons why Debian considered > using a CDN was because they felt that the cost, in terms of people > power, of maintaining their own "proto-CDN" infrastructure had grown too > great. I'm still new to guixsd but understood enough to se we are much more well equipped to maintain our distributed network of substitutes caching servers... **transparently** configured :-) [...] > I also understand Hartmut's concerns. The risks he points out are > valid. Because of those risks, even if we make a third-party CDN option > available, some people will choose not to use it. probably I'll be one of those, I'm considering to maintain a caching substitute server in a "semi-trusted" colocated space and I'd be very happy to share that server with the community [...] > However, not everyone shares the same threat model. For example, > although some people choose not to trust substitutes from our build > farm, still others do. for this very reason IMHO we should work towards a network of **very trusted** build farms directly managed and controlled by the GuixSD project sysadmins; if build farms will be able to quickly provide substitutes, caching mirrors will be _much more_ effective than today ... and a network of "automated guix challenge" servers to spot not-reproducible software in GuixSD with a solid infrastructure of "scientifically" trustable build farms, there are no reasons not to trust substitutes servers (this implies working towards 100% reproducibility of GuixSD) > The choice is based on one's own individual > situation. Similarly, if we make a third-party CDN option available and > explain the risks of using it, Guix users will be able to make an > educated decision for themselves about whether or not to use it. that's an option... like a "last resort" in order to be able to use guixSD :-) we could also teach people how to setup their own caching servers and possibly share them with the rest of the local community (possibly with some coordination effort from the project sysadmins) for Milan I've plans to setup such caching mirror in Jan 2019 [...] happy hacking! Gio =2D-=20 Giovanni Biscuolo Xelera IT Infrastructures --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEERcxjuFJYydVfNLI5030Op87MORIFAlwSN0MACgkQ030Op87M ORK3kw/+LM9TUQ9jT+6nts+h1cW8e5BVZJgtaDVtLsgjikEqmhos6PBow3D3ylPt Z1t68D9eXQrHFY8lTP8Ml149wokHhGGPWyVgF+pwPdDUjkK+nQy8An9hpfxpM6lV fn0gL/FTAsHS/un970pw2RDy/BaeBhTXPOU9EekveBxjnDBv7nsXqX7nnDhnbRUy BO1pzLNiYSo7+9Op5bsmIiDTJibK9TuVIVMSKAzaHs8WtvuYlqlUH1cQDNtNdEG5 buaXbJyRgvfTlJ7uSm211JSFu46GCfxDh1Rxo0IX4qqh1AybBTAIj2R6inhJgy4R Oni9oTUbc7Fs2xwwn67XVMHx43PSx6gZIQAgr9X898OJM7IogVI476zqwU4B/lwB jsdKunCZNmwugcRO7MNAc0tFTdIw8o6P6hSFe2WS8irhDH+v/3+YGN5lTM336Gux 4yiB3EUxjp91Wjw7Sblz3NipmADjovYUUc8mO56MkuDyQasdBIar4qCCjo4ww7sJ MAJt0PaJWdwu22wbPfWhXMCHZErrcPS7lVy/OUNPOTgAx2s/7rk18i6hNL1awhFi DCIEDPOKzODyB2g+Pwy1Ormmrr8iEKT5lP8zS4f4byicFrC2cJt+1clggnKN9qw7 y5VyZH0j3In7+ZYFdIhkv7YGGRaKujyUnLc3Bg060eBbnVaTNA8= =jw02 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 14 03:35:45 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2018 08:35:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47265 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXiwj-0005gY-3k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 03:35:45 -0500 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:56158) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXiwf-0005gN-FU for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 03:35:44 -0500 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43GP582FcGz1qvvc; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:35:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43GP580xvcz1qsJg; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:35:40 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i8p5HwzsWmpN; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:35:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermia.goebel-consult.de (ppp-83-171-164-177.dynamic.mnet-online.de [83.171.164.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:35:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.110.2] (lenashee.goebel-consult.de [192.168.110.2]) by hermia.goebel-consult.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC6960197; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:40:44 +0100 (CET) To: =?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=c3=a8s?= References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <87pnua244k.fsf@gnu.org> From: Hartmut Goebel Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Organization: crazy-compilers.com Subject: Re: Using a CDN or some other mirror? Message-ID: <65fa6be4-3ddc-703b-708d-e223c2474d0b@crazy-compilers.com> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:35:38 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87pnua244k.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------DF2B707F32DE55A1C84EECF6" Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: Chris Marusich , "Thompson, David" , Ricardo Wurmus , Meiyo Peng , guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DF2B707F32DE55A1C84EECF6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am 09.12.2018 um 14:58 schrieb Ludovic Court=C3=A8s: >> I could try and ask a few organizations in my area, but I would need >> figures for this. > What would you need to know? =E2=80=98guix weather=E2=80=99 can provid= e info about > storage size. I don't know yet, which info the admins need for a decision. FMPOV I'd says: Disk-space and traffic to be expected. `guix weather` only provides the disk-space, but even this is not obvious for me: =C2=A0 13912.1 MiB of nars (compressed) =C2=A0 41176.6 MiB on disk (uncompressed) =46rom reading the manual, I assume 13.9 GB are required on the server (which is quite a lot IMHO). Is this correct? --=20 +++hartmut | Hartmut Goebel | | | hartmut@goebel-consult.de | www.goebel-consult.de | --------------DF2B707F32DE55A1C84EECF6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Am 09.12.2018 um 14:58 schrieb Ludovic Courtès:
I could try and ask a few organizations in my area, but I would need
figures for this.

What would you need to know?  ‘guix weather’ can provide info about
storage size.

I don't know yet, which info the admins need for a decision. FMPOV I'd says: Disk-space and traffic to be expected.

`guix weather` only provides the disk-space, but even this is not obvious for me:

  13912.1 MiB of nars (compressed)
  41176.6 MiB on disk (uncompressed)

From reading the manual, I assume 13.9 GB are required on the server (which is quite a lot IMHO). Is this correct?
-- 
+++hartmut

| Hartmut Goebel            |                       |
| hartmut@goebel-consult.de | www.goebel-consult.de |
--------------DF2B707F32DE55A1C84EECF6-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 14 04:02:37 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2018 09:02:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47282 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXjMj-0006MK-BE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 04:02:37 -0500 Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.197]:42071) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXjMh-0006MC-Po for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 04:02:36 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 86.246.35.59 Received: from mimimi (lfbn-1-799-59.w86-246.abo.wanadoo.fr [86.246.35.59]) (Authenticated sender: mail@ambrevar.xyz) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A40411C000D; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:02:33 +0000 (UTC) References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <87pnua244k.fsf@gnu.org> <65fa6be4-3ddc-703b-708d-e223c2474d0b@crazy-compilers.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.0; emacs 26.1 From: Pierre Neidhardt To: Hartmut Goebel Subject: Re: Using a CDN or some other mirror? In-reply-to: <65fa6be4-3ddc-703b-708d-e223c2474d0b@crazy-compilers.com> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 10:02:33 +0100 Message-ID: <87tvjgeb12.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Talking about this, I recently discussed with Ludovic the idea of compressi= ng nars in Lzip instead of gzip. http://lzip.nongnu.org/lzip.html (benchmark included) I can work on some Lzip guile-bindings, it should be quite easy, then we co= uld save some 10-50% (!!!) disk usage. =2D-=20 Pierre Neidhardt https://ambrevar.xyz/ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEUPM+LlsMPZAEJKvom9z0l6S7zH8FAlwTcakACgkQm9z0l6S7 zH/4QAf/Rn2lKzmd2wFCOMm2Dhr3e5Z507oAZv+6Ci0P7qxG51nW1A5rTQYr31qX r8s++AUgD88nooX8ZtvKv13rkxWkdifnu4iXuwaRM/2FmXTp2NfQ8ZNvQi+/CKrc xbDH8+1o6f0aID0c2EFSxo9eQn73COegujH+PZHHrgpBVHYe9e9ZC/54ACC2m9lA S9u1Bj05TAJBpSxSbhe0wp/j47gn4ealuFHRqXuXRhy/fNMJB2uMS+ZcCL7wv+XY 1waYZDYElxrc13HsfCK3OfP8PiMplSTuq3lWYVvHysY/q0mXvTjola5Jdq9Z73KO 4BRXLSJg4qBesMnhLiHQVOrdJrAWhQ== =zi5X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 14 05:26:53 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2018 10:26:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47352 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXkgH-0008Qx-F0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 05:26:53 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48777) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXkgF-0008Qg-Nr for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 05:26:51 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gXkg6-0004ub-I4 for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 05:26:44 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:58911) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gXkft-0004pO-BJ; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 05:26:30 -0500 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=39066 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gXkfs-0002D0-Fj; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 05:26:28 -0500 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Chris Marusich Subject: guix.gnu.org sub-domain References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87y38tx365.fsf@gmail.com> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 24 Frimaire an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 11:26:25 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87y38tx365.fsf@gmail.com> (Chris Marusich's message of "Thu, 13 Dec 2018 00:05:06 -0800") Message-ID: <874lbg76b2.fsf_-_@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: Hartmut Goebel , Julien Lepiller , "Thompson, David" , Ricardo Wurmus , Meiyo Peng , guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Hi Chris, Chris Marusich skribis: > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > >> Regarding the GNU sub-domain, as I replied to Meiyo, I=E2=80=99m in favo= r of it, >> all we need is someone to champion setting it up. > > I could help with this. Whom should I contact? We discussed this over the last few days in Paris and Julien (roptat on IRC) volunteered to come up with a Knot service setup for bayfront.scm. When that=E2=80=99s ready, we can contact the FSF sysadmins so they delegat= e to bayfront. I=E2=80=99m sure Julien wouldn=E2=80=99t mind getting some help or insight,= so please do get in touch! Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 14 05:35:59 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2018 10:35:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47360 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXkp4-0000Di-MY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 05:35:59 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:52051) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXkp3-0000DW-2R for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 05:35:57 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gXkou-0006VM-70 for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 05:35:50 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:59564) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gXkom-0006Q9-Iv; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 05:35:40 -0500 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=39298 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gXkol-0007yl-Js; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 05:35:40 -0500 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Chris Marusich Subject: Re: CDN performance References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87y38tx365.fsf@gmail.com> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 24 Frimaire an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 11:35:37 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87y38tx365.fsf@gmail.com> (Chris Marusich's message of "Thu, 13 Dec 2018 00:05:06 -0800") Message-ID: <87pnu45rba.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: Hartmut Goebel , "Thompson, David" , Ricardo Wurmus , Meiyo Peng , guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Hello! Chris Marusich skribis: > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: [...] > Judging by that email thread, one of the reasons why Debian considered > using a CDN was because they felt that the cost, in terms of people > power, of maintaining their own "proto-CDN" infrastructure had grown too > great. I believe it! I think it would be ill-advised for the Guix > project to expend effort and capital on building and maintaining its own > CDN. I think it would be wiser to focus on developing a decentralized > substitute solution (GNUnet, IPFS, etc.). > > That said, I still think that today Guix should provide a third-party > CDN option. For many Guix users, a CDN would improve performance and > availability of substitutes. Contracting with a third party to provide > the CDN service would require much less effort and capital than building > and maintaining a CDN from scratch. This would also enable the project > to focus more on building a decentralized substitute solution. And once > that decentralized solution is ready, it will be easy to just "turn off" > the CDN. > > I also understand Hartmut's concerns. The risks he points out are > valid. Because of those risks, even if we make a third-party CDN option > available, some people will choose not to use it. For that reason, we > should not require Guix users to use a third-party CDN, just as we do > not require them to use substitutes from our build farm. > > However, not everyone shares the same threat model. For example, > although some people choose not to trust substitutes from our build > farm, still others do. The choice is based on one's own individual > situation. Similarly, if we make a third-party CDN option available and > explain the risks of using it, Guix users will be able to make an > educated decision for themselves about whether or not to use it. That summarizes the situation very well. In Paris, there was consensus on two things: that a CDN would be helpful for performance and availability (though availability could suddenly be worse if we run=E2=80=A6 out of money), and that it raises privacy concerns. Based on this, some suggested having a way to opt out of the CDN distribution: for example, we might make ci.guix.info point to the CDN and also advertise berlin.guixsd.org as a way to bypass it. Of course in parallel we want to do our best to develop decentralized solutions. > However, I believe you when you say that it's slow the first time you > download the substitute from berlin. What path does the data take from > its origin through berlin? If berlin needs to download the initial file > from another server, perhaps the connection between berlin and that > server is the bottleneck? Maybe we should discuss that in a different > email thread, though. On the first hit, nginx fetches the file from =E2=80=98guix publish=E2=80= =99, which is also on berlin. =E2=80=98guix publish=E2=80=99 gets the file from local st= orage and passes it with sendfile(2), so it=E2=80=99s as fast as can be. Thanks for the info! Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 14 09:45:35 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2018 14:45:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47442 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXoib-0000No-Av for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:45:35 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58227) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXoia-0000Nb-2N for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:45:32 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gXoiU-0007SJ-1W for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:45:26 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46224) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gXoiI-0007Kv-Kz; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:45:14 -0500 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=46952 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gXoiH-0000NI-Ix; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:45:14 -0500 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Hartmut Goebel Subject: Re: Using a CDN or some other mirror? References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <87pnua244k.fsf@gnu.org> <65fa6be4-3ddc-703b-708d-e223c2474d0b@crazy-compilers.com> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 24 Frimaire an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 15:45:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: <65fa6be4-3ddc-703b-708d-e223c2474d0b@crazy-compilers.com> (Hartmut Goebel's message of "Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:35:38 +0100") Message-ID: <87a7l82mmg.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: Chris Marusich , "Thompson, David" , Ricardo Wurmus , Meiyo Peng , guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Hello, Hartmut Goebel skribis: > Am 09.12.2018 um 14:58 schrieb Ludovic Court=C3=A8s: >>> I could try and ask a few organizations in my area, but I would need >>> figures for this. >> What would you need to know? =E2=80=98guix weather=E2=80=99 can provide= info about >> storage size. > > I don't know yet, which info the admins need for a decision. FMPOV I'd > says: Disk-space and traffic to be expected. > > `guix weather` only provides the disk-space, but even this is not > obvious for me: > > =C2=A0 13912.1 MiB of nars (compressed) > =C2=A0 41176.6 MiB on disk (uncompressed) > > From reading the manual, I assume 13.9 GB are required on the server > (which is quite a lot IMHO). Is this correct? If you=E2=80=99re running a caching proxy, you=E2=80=99ll need 13G. Howeve= r note that it=E2=80=99s only for one architecture and one revision of Guix. The total space needed is obviously a function of time (number of Guix revisions served) and number of architectures. You could choose an expiration time in your caching proxy that satisfies your disk space constraints, though. Our machines that run Cuirass + =E2=80=98guix publish --cache=E2=80=99 need= roughly 41+13G since they contain both /gnu/store and /var/cache/guix/publish. HTH! Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 14 09:48:33 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2018 14:48:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47446 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXolV-0000Sg-Cy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:48:33 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59301) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXolU-0000SS-3r for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:48:32 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gXolO-00012w-4d for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:48:26 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46265) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gXolO-00012s-0n; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:48:26 -0500 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=47106 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gXolN-0000f8-OJ; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:48:25 -0500 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Pierre Neidhardt Subject: Compressing nars with lzip or similar References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <87pnua244k.fsf@gnu.org> <65fa6be4-3ddc-703b-708d-e223c2474d0b@crazy-compilers.com> <87tvjgeb12.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 24 Frimaire an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 15:48:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87tvjgeb12.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> (Pierre Neidhardt's message of "Fri, 14 Dec 2018 10:02:33 +0100") Message-ID: <874lbg2mh3.fsf_-_@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Hartmut Goebel , 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Pierre Neidhardt skribis: > Talking about this, I recently discussed with Ludovic the idea of compres= sing > nars in Lzip instead of gzip. > > http://lzip.nongnu.org/lzip.html (benchmark included) > > I can work on some Lzip guile-bindings, it should be quite easy, then we = could > save some 10-50% (!!!) disk usage. That would be sweet! Though we have to keep in mind that today=E2=80=99s =E2=80=98guix substitut= e=E2=80=99 doesn=E2=80=99t know about lzip at all (see (guix scripts substitute) and =E2=80=98call-with-decompressed-port=E2=80=99.) So while lzip would be my = preference, we may not be able to use it until we can be sure our users can actually unpack it. Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 14 10:21:38 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2018 15:21:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48431 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXpHV-0001WL-TP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 10:21:38 -0500 Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.197]:52821) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXpHU-0001WD-7x for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 10:21:36 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 86.246.35.59 Received: from mimimi (lfbn-1-799-59.w86-246.abo.wanadoo.fr [86.246.35.59]) (Authenticated sender: mail@ambrevar.xyz) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 770641C0013; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 15:21:34 +0000 (UTC) References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <87pnua244k.fsf@gnu.org> <65fa6be4-3ddc-703b-708d-e223c2474d0b@crazy-compilers.com> <87tvjgeb12.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <874lbg2mh3.fsf_-_@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.0; emacs 26.1 From: Pierre Neidhardt To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: Compressing nars with lzip or similar In-reply-to: <874lbg2mh3.fsf_-_@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 16:21:33 +0100 Message-ID: <878t0sdthe.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Hartmut Goebel , 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Absolutely, but once the bindings are up and running, it should be straightforward to update (guix scripts substitute), no? =2D-=20 Pierre Neidhardt https://ambrevar.xyz/ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEUPM+LlsMPZAEJKvom9z0l6S7zH8FAlwTyn0ACgkQm9z0l6S7 zH+zPAf7BkIiDgq7m3duDpfVf3z4wjB9W+9O6+8N7ilk6GEarHzKN7Ed5yfxiKBK 8f1/eZPhAQusAmOlucIa5cwed6OgdJg7saYUvwMfG+yDRh2SBRaNr79/ISjRfrm7 JqdHFABRZQVUeS4kMjeIcUNH7um1ZICgetV9X3Jb4zZUgq8FiEK39NGSQIeUSn7A cbcLYK5fCzXyHikhiDmbWB/k9Xs7ej8poOFYH0wjLSb6wcYCCuuoEXY8qef+zFHQ RvL6t7Y1w5eO6dfxYPHbcgUbsDdSASVpbYsR5J6QPjve1zfJ+7YX0edXSbz1TnZ6 8LLMlMC3nuznI8l9MpYt2V15zPkp/w== =fPIo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 14 20:42:05 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2018 01:42:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48737 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXyxw-0002BI-PH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 20:42:04 -0500 Received: from world.peace.net ([64.112.178.59]:55358) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gXyxu-0002An-Sk for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 20:42:03 -0500 Received: from mhw by world.peace.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1gXyxo-0004gB-SH; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 20:41:56 -0500 From: Mark H Weaver To: Giovanni Biscuolo Subject: Re: CDN performance References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87y38tx365.fsf@gmail.com> <878t0thfp9.fsf@roquette.mug.biscuolo.net> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 20:40:55 -0500 In-Reply-To: <878t0thfp9.fsf@roquette.mug.biscuolo.net> (Giovanni Biscuolo's message of "Thu, 13 Dec 2018 11:41:06 +0100") Message-ID: <874lbfd0sd.fsf@netris.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , Chris Marusich , 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Giovanni, Giovanni Biscuolo writes: > with a solid infrastructure of "scientifically" trustable build farms, > there are no reasons not to trust substitutes servers (this implies > working towards 100% reproducibility of GuixSD) What does "scientifically trustable" mean? Mark From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 15 07:17:10 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2018 12:17:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49017 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gY8sY-0001GW-8D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 07:17:10 -0500 Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.232]:37195) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gY8sW-0001GN-F1 for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 07:17:08 -0500 Received: from mimimi (lfbn-1-799-59.w86-246.abo.wanadoo.fr [86.246.35.59]) (Authenticated sender: mail@ambrevar.xyz) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 81EA2200004; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 12:17:05 +0000 (UTC) References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <87pnua244k.fsf@gnu.org> <65fa6be4-3ddc-703b-708d-e223c2474d0b@crazy-compilers.com> <87tvjgeb12.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <874lbg2mh3.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <878t0sdthe.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> User-agent: mu4e 1.0; emacs 26.1 From: Pierre Neidhardt To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: Compressing nars with lzip or similar In-reply-to: <878t0sdthe.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 13:17:05 +0100 Message-ID: <87k1kbrnlq.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Hartmut Goebel , 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain I've done some quick research over the various options. - lzip: better than gz and bzip2 for sure, possibly better than xz (at least according to the author). - plzip: for "parallel lzip". With 4 threads I was able to compress icecat 2.5x faster. It used 5x more memory though. The compression ratio is 1-2% worse. - lrzip: it would crash whenever I would change the compression level. Seems less stable. It's as fast as plzip, while being 1-2% less compressed. I don't think it's worth using. All in all, lzip is a definite win over most options. The main question is: lzip or plzip? In my opinion it makes more sense to use plzip, gotta put those cores to some use (on the user side at least)! Not sure what the build farm would think about this though. Finally, plzip can be quite memory-intensive. When passed "--threads=1" however, it gets closer to lzip (bit faster, bit more memory). So maybe the ideal would be to support plzip with a user-settable "threads" option. Thoughts? -- Pierre Neidhardt https://ambrevar.xyz/ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEUPM+LlsMPZAEJKvom9z0l6S7zH8FAlwU8MEACgkQm9z0l6S7 zH+5owgAhdRMia1xxIiCANu8UorM980EiPuGsTAO/VnnLpleGnQsdfQKjU7SWsk+ 3aV9B/zHmyyouA902HTQK0h5HxzXfW2QivrZx7RtkOFXnckbvMjt7epT0UzaaK+v E+zjC5o16DmDiRyYdmqttDnSNL4Kp30zawRDwN+IXYaWm3L1cb6qSU7H4UgmbFng 80MHofqdU/2Uk042pNwZNQUZPjtIWSX611LJGT7YmrfscyDDBhijXTIjiNaIKa6b Tm7Vr7HLN100k3gzPVEBONfrDFMBfOqNHfxy8Y1+79c0eMFqHbvSDKpghxRCrByk lhGLOPPKrvH3LWkJHE2MHh/z8pIb5Q== =gxzl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 15 13:04:51 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2018 18:04:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49587 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gYEJ1-0005uF-0F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 13:04:51 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42509) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gYEIz-0005u3-Tt for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 13:04:50 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gYEIt-0007gr-Dn for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 13:04:44 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51285) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gYEIs-0007gV-Mn; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 13:04:43 -0500 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=47212 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gYEIq-0004sX-SA; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 13:04:42 -0500 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Pierre Neidhardt Subject: Re: Compressing nars with lzip or similar References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <87pnua244k.fsf@gnu.org> <65fa6be4-3ddc-703b-708d-e223c2474d0b@crazy-compilers.com> <87tvjgeb12.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <874lbg2mh3.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <878t0sdthe.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 25 Frimaire an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 19:04:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <878t0sdthe.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> (Pierre Neidhardt's message of "Fri, 14 Dec 2018 16:21:33 +0100") Message-ID: <87tvjey8co.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Hartmut Goebel , 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Pierre Neidhardt skribis: > Absolutely, but once the bindings are up and running, it should be > straightforward to update (guix scripts substitute), no? Sure! But it will take time before we can assume all our users are running it. Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 15 13:06:38 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2018 18:06:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49591 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gYEKj-0005xD-Vp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 13:06:38 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42774) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gYEKh-0005wy-Pn for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 13:06:35 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gYEKY-0000qC-Bm for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 13:06:29 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51301) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gYEKX-0000pM-3o; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 13:06:26 -0500 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=47230 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gYEKV-00053C-HI; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 13:06:24 -0500 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Pierre Neidhardt Subject: Re: Compressing nars with lzip or similar References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <87pnua244k.fsf@gnu.org> <65fa6be4-3ddc-703b-708d-e223c2474d0b@crazy-compilers.com> <87tvjgeb12.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <874lbg2mh3.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <878t0sdthe.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <87k1kbrnlq.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 25 Frimaire an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 19:06:21 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87k1kbrnlq.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> (Pierre Neidhardt's message of "Sat, 15 Dec 2018 13:17:05 +0100") Message-ID: <87o99my89u.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Hartmut Goebel , 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Pierre Neidhardt skribis: > I've done some quick research over the various options. > > - lzip: better than gz and bzip2 for sure, possibly better than xz (at > least according to the author). > > - plzip: for "parallel lzip". With 4 threads I was able to compress > icecat 2.5x faster. It used 5x more memory though. The compression > ratio is 1-2% worse. > > - lrzip: it would crash whenever I would change the compression level. > Seems less stable. It's as fast as plzip, while being 1-2% less > compressed. I don't think it's worth using. > > All in all, lzip is a definite win over most options. The main question > is: lzip or plzip? =E2=80=98guix publish=E2=80=99 has its own worker pool and handles parallel= ism internally, so in that context plain sequential lzip would be more appropriate IMO. Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 15 18:20:42 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2018 23:20:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49769 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gYJEg-0002nU-Lm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 18:20:42 -0500 Received: from mail-pf1-f182.google.com ([209.85.210.182]:33346) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gYJEf-0002nI-1v for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 18:20:41 -0500 Received: by mail-pf1-f182.google.com with SMTP id c123so4574408pfb.0 for <33600@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:20:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=4Gq5LUeUdPaVAs8SClJEuGi0lS7HIUJFS/xHyKZGx/s=; b=HEfpGIOoyCR0Dyf1fIEXtkH0dGtdOZsje54SCBM6VrEaa4RFR7c7ff5Zpc1xEe91Cx fZVMw1Qyt6i+G8Z4AkQFOkilGuWTuxW1r/mwfINCK/14PgiKQzEvSViQG9UfOwZVKZv1 4At61tw8FPGSFH7kFRfZOuBpntNTgFCqBwcoaKyiwDekgVY7TQuChv3coHIiltxtZ2CI MXmub3nUFEvAY4RNfOH7G722xMTmZ1MbkTofH+u4CgACOEAKBSfhbEsfaeMbwHNTvapa pq4aSoCji6OY0ihlvEO5v6bIfenSSXbMoJ1u/diEqATa2Skd1ItD6AP30a/Xncr3VgSR QZlw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=4Gq5LUeUdPaVAs8SClJEuGi0lS7HIUJFS/xHyKZGx/s=; b=Y2LZuaZ4BLqLkCfJbSxGp1fuXK/Av0QML9VQNx5eC+nzISzQ0eWKxvywSKIuPAqTR+ KiNcUBRqN6NrRdHeOPtEqcbvunSPyNUmMA9R7OtIsmoZ4khv2Dxn2kfT3BPu0rnFqIFU HI2pg29DzOG2XJpEn5vuYfTdmygk002mNH4edqUZNT0dxVz5kJHCwMC19kqKl1hI6NSz m9KFmkf+YPDibcTH4KLYi6QwWdoVsPP8+PdWjF5uS/KsZS7ylbYXEHl1D/rzSEq2QI/Z /xv21heLKW/HQbLWeNJQbVlLQS7de+brmT/HJ2h18Qu4uJK4Z+3tWooufrLGNerOchgR e6yw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWY/1Xk3sYp/dCL8/fETRBDcWE1q65Vnp3DbKcj8eXdce/Bo1mI4 G+eZSWR48yLCLpLd1XlG3cI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/Ur44nqQvleTLDsC2ulipGBc7BN9rmmUgD6pN0goNBpz2/GM5OYWq83R+RIonEsMMG5v1FWDg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:4456:: with SMTP id t22mr7710122pgk.0.1544916035170; Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:20:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from garuda.local ([2601:601:9d00:3c88:618a:e7e5:7937:1100]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h8sm12422370pfo.162.2018.12.15.15.20.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:20:33 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Marusich To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: guix.gnu.org sub-domain References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87y38tx365.fsf@gmail.com> <874lbg76b2.fsf_-_@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:20:32 -0800 In-Reply-To: <874lbg76b2.fsf_-_@gnu.org> ("Ludovic \=\?utf-8\?Q\?Court\=C3\=A8s\?\= \=\?utf-8\?Q\?\=22's\?\= message of "Fri, 14 Dec 2018 11:26:25 +0100") Message-ID: <87va3us7gf.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: Hartmut Goebel , Julien Lepiller , "Thompson, David" , Ricardo Wurmus , Meiyo Peng , guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ludo, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > I=E2=80=99m sure Julien wouldn=E2=80=99t mind getting some help or insigh= t, so please do > get in touch! OK, I'll speak privately with Julien about the DNS setup to avoid adding noise to this email thread. =2D-=20 Chris --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEy/WXVcvn5+/vGD+x3UCaFdgiRp0FAlwVjEAACgkQ3UCaFdgi Rp1F2A/+MaCjKRMoDkdwHe57P8HP1Czh7uYAuzCZNs3H6lFUTr2eXGNYHqH84slx Cb+U8RPt9PxrQseGm4C2MakOx1gyttvC45NA3cFoNt0HmZdUa/tlx9non/vQ33R+ OcXtMsHMcgeLq/CRZ0vnURIEN4WelKCF6kanFsex7Q6Wg/6P1J1a+Fhomp2yW3TM ucpzj81jpkVfXA/M3H7Vms9AeKi9lN8b71PWxmPwqHqmEgQWl1blBPY5JQLSFRTC 6Cw/QrHbQ1JEj1A+xffweFR8lobyFEVKVMtjMR0LNAD4YObLsPEH02BTdRd8bnI2 zFIdKWprOAHNYTjUCLSBzAg0dFCSfEsppKhlg9tOEzrplYZBG2wwzJIPwr/KTSG+ 9BSMce0/ok5Mq3i7s+s9m5t88GPdrZWnh3xeTCR5G1XmrPmHqIVFoz8O6k3EbkMK II14ooLaYd1LCB0STsWadUVqJmRPgOoAYi1n5lQSSOZ+1M6FxX7qhmGhOEuwlot3 8tmlJduzjxr3FNXxt6xh2/GV6xtO5o8FvAex2T1X45Ye+Iq+9SDRM1xgncIXi6iX CdQfcW8iY7DcvgUYvUqP3Za0chGw0shCcCRYGnRG09h9kPTMa+hE2dm8Q/wgFZap aR/XHgFa0sAf3I64ymUXmolRs1DnPN3525UJL2c2+ZqItIL9rV4= =Iuh7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 17 01:49:00 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Dec 2018 06:49:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50776 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gYmi3-0008In-W5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 01:49:00 -0500 Received: from mail-pl1-f181.google.com ([209.85.214.181]:39835) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gYmi1-0008Ia-CX for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 01:48:58 -0500 Received: by mail-pl1-f181.google.com with SMTP id 101so5659066pld.6 for <33600@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 22:48:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hMtvMOPyd1zMaqjWI602FWLf9yr9PcM1UMgctex+dW8=; b=rbz7MY3576TovytM7fGxe2UmpCJUzxnyWHCygcQV/J40SgHSYve9hqpL31cAXHYolr mMNx9It611Tn8JSZ1x2+27G3N36zBpN0VuHSsZSU6HpDtYbt5vQ+fo6TKqQs036Mc4/B f5X1T5EtzeYmAj2SFq56D///FMRuPeVwr6GILY99O/qirYOTMw3PpqVYDWkPXvVkM3jZ qKoHM7q0K5I1GEy63hGl6fGR1wXpMVGmRwAF3gz1rpCTzY64fKi8N1e8vzK8T+Tg8pQg x75Xdpenm9VOLo+n47btylzvjftDrfjpFhk21aPfID1nMOQHQ+RQfko7qJh4APSQ+WEc YjCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hMtvMOPyd1zMaqjWI602FWLf9yr9PcM1UMgctex+dW8=; b=MmdlqhMa9kP0naxEkfx6sORn2FPHYWt7aZDsBhML6nbvb5cr2O0jVeQIMTljyWplwq iFh1QV/LoDwR5KT+QrOt7CzIgA6GMBoaKh3hR+AdPSJFr5u/fgXDVvyooPv8cPCP0CiZ ewsuKKl1qFFU8cy5e3VKcDr/FENpK0WNMErDK0Iy8MK7ZBSfoLitJhp7wzwToE/ROY9u kO1S4dcK+1RKPr5iSGTUakC+eWFErULZJTD4lrf+ptkxbov5Sisbvu8y4jkZfVXnQwzg VeK1FvNHEYSyGZTKp4IUNLO7c//uW6FefF9OnqAWXRkOKNfLxepwLLNZuHtMCaFl24N6 1S5A== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWauOpK4jmZ1JtpVs5M+H5h482T/XcYyCtcoE+XRGtCzJxrXEd6T o+MM5X7XHjdGDyqH7xnEd2YNokvP X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/XqDOVqZaOCCGPGMSfuSKAG1QstiPUAWZ8aEsp2sG8JVBluzHJSQZNHVHN5RyCo/3KhbbDzJg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:8a8a:: with SMTP id p10mr11848067plo.50.1545029331069; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 22:48:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from dinosaur (144.34.217.65.16clouds.com. [144.34.217.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i4sm20350887pfj.82.2018.12.16.22.48.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 16 Dec 2018 22:48:50 -0800 (PST) From: Meiyo Peng To: Chris Marusich Subject: Re: CDN performance References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <874lbk63se.fsf@gmail.com> <877egdyk82.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 14:48:42 +0800 In-Reply-To: <877egdyk82.fsf@gmail.com> (Chris Marusich's message of "Wed, 12 Dec 2018 23:11:25 -0800") Message-ID: <87d0q01wdx.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Chris, Chris Marusich writes: > Meiyo Peng writes: > >> After careful thought, I realized the new CDN won't benefit China >> residents as planned. Any popular CDN outside China is significantly >> throttled by ISP/GFW and the situation is worse every year. A CDN will >> be a great improvement for western countries but not for many asia >> countries. > > Could you try running the measure_get shell function I included in the > following email? > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2018-12/msg00192.html > > For convenience, here is the definition: > > measure_get () { > curl -L \ > -o /dev/null \ > -w "url_effective: %{url_effective}\\n\ > http_code: %{http_code}\\n\ > num_connects: %{num_connects}\\n\ > num_redirects: %{num_redirects}\\n\ > remote_ip: %{remote_ip}\\n\ > remote_port: %{remote_port}\\n\ > size_download: %{size_download} B\\n\ > speed_download: %{speed_download} B/s\\n\ > time_appconnect: %{time_appconnect} s\\n\ > time_connect: %{time_connect} s\\n\ > time_namelookup: %{time_namelookup} s\\n\ > time_pretransfer: %{time_pretransfer} s\\n\ > time_redirect: %{time_redirect} s\\n\ > time_starttransfer: %{time_starttransfer} s\\n\ > time_total: %{time_total} s\\n" \ > "$1" > } > > Specifically, I am curious to know what performance you get when you run > > measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z9= zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > > from a computer in China. Please be sure to run it two times in a row, > to ensure that CloudFront has cached the object. > > CloudFront has edge locations in Hong Kong, so I am curious to know what > performance improvement, if any, you observe. Sorry for the delay. My computer was reinstalled with Windows and taken away by my girlfriend. So I have been waiting for my new computer that I bought online to arrive. Finally, it arrived yesterday and I successfully installed Guix on it. I tested your script several times. 1. Tested today at home. China Unicom home broadband. 50Mb/s. The result is slow as usual. curl failed once. berlin-mirror.marusich.info is resolved to Seattle, WA, US. #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq= 783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 55 66.6M 55 36.9M 0 0 17926 0 1:04:59 0:36:02 0:28:57 = 17733 url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z= 9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 52.85.158.151 remote_port: 443 size_download: 38764357 B speed_download: 17926.000 B/s time_appconnect: 6.078850 s time_connect: 3.006821 s time_namelookup: 2.659785 s time_pretransfer: 6.079097 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 9.626001 s time_total: 2162.379211 s curl: (92) HTTP/2 stream 0 was not closed cleanly: INTERNAL_ERROR (err 2) =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq= 783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 109k 0 0:10:25 0:10:25 --:--:-- = 241k url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z= 9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 52.85.158.22 remote_port: 443 size_download: 69899433 B speed_download: 111816.000 B/s time_appconnect: 3.507528 s time_connect: 2.650373 s time_namelookup: 2.261801 s time_pretransfer: 3.507637 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 5.995298 s time_total: 625.129571 s =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq= 783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 109k 0 0:10:23 0:10:23 --:--:-- = 141k url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z= 9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 52.85.158.22 remote_port: 443 size_download: 69899433 B speed_download: 112187.000 B/s time_appconnect: 2.280972 s time_connect: 1.407197 s time_namelookup: 1.056180 s time_pretransfer: 2.281234 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 3.167703 s time_total: 623.061584 s #+END_EXAMPLE 2. Tested 3 days ago at my office. China Telecom enterprise broadband. 50Mb= /s. Unusually fast! berlin-mirror.marusich.info is resolved to Seattle, WA, US. I have no idea why it's so fast that day. #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq= 783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 1364k 0 0:00:50 0:00:50 --:--:-- = 1352k url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z= 9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 13.35.20.109 remote_port: 443 size_download: 69899433 B speed_download: 1397429.000 B/s time_appconnect: 2.432387 s time_connect: 0.200842 s time_namelookup: 0.000446 s time_pretransfer: 2.432659 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 2.673045 s time_total: 50.020945 s =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq= 783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 1592k 0 0:00:42 0:00:42 --:--:-- = 2506k url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z= 9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 13.35.20.109 remote_port: 443 size_download: 69899433 B speed_download: 1630687.000 B/s time_appconnect: 0.653270 s time_connect: 0.209455 s time_namelookup: 0.001582 s time_pretransfer: 0.658399 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 0.883126 s time_total: 42.865868 s #+END_EXAMPLE 3. Tested today at my office. China Telecom enterprise broadband. 50Mb/s. Slow as usual. berlin-mirror.marusich.info is still resolved to Seattle, WA, US. I killed the program several times because it hung there with no data transfer for a few minutes. The TCP connection was probably closed by GFW. This is very common here. #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq= 783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 48110 0 0:24:12 0:24:12 --:--:-- = 41808 url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z= 9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 52.85.158.151 remote_port: 443 size_download: 69899433 B speed_download: 48110.000 B/s time_appconnect: 0.872926 s time_connect: 0.282048 s time_namelookup: 0.000524 s time_pretransfer: 0.873099 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 1.187467 s time_total: 1452.904154 s =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq= 783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 2 66.6M 2 1809k 0 0 5760 0 3:22:15 0:05:21 3:16:54 = 0^C% =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq= 783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 52 66.6M 52 34.9M 0 0 16772 0 1:09:27 0:36:26 0:33:01 = 0^C% =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq= 783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 58181 0 0:20:01 0:20:01 --:--:-- = 87975 url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z= 9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 52.85.158.22 remote_port: 443 size_download: 69899433 B speed_download: 58181.000 B/s time_appconnect: 2.297713 s time_connect: 1.904176 s time_namelookup: 1.727602 s time_pretransfer: 2.297974 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 2.503263 s time_total: 1201.408929 s #+END_EXAMPLE Well. As you see, the network in China is both slow and unstable. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 19 07:40:44 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Dec 2018 12:40:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54033 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gZb9U-0001YN-Cs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 07:40:43 -0500 Received: from ns13.heimat.it ([46.4.214.66]:45176) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gZb9M-0001Y0-BJ for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 07:40:35 -0500 Received: from localhost (ip6-localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ns13.heimat.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B910300F3E; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:40:25 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at ns13.heimat.it Received: from ns13.heimat.it ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns13.heimat.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mYsiMLPBl_0d; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:40:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bourrache.mug.xelera.it (unknown [93.56.161.211]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by ns13.heimat.it (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9E2B4300EE6; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:40:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from roquette.mug.biscuolo.net (roquette.mug.biscuolo.net [10.38.2.14]) by bourrache.mug.xelera.it (Postfix) with SMTP id 37DEA300056; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:40:21 +0100 (CET) Received: (nullmailer pid 11334 invoked by uid 1000); Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:40:20 -0000 From: Giovanni Biscuolo To: Mark H Weaver Subject: Re: CDN performance In-Reply-To: <874lbfd0sd.fsf@netris.org> Organization: Xelera.eu References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87y38tx365.fsf@gmail.com> <878t0thfp9.fsf@roquette.mug.biscuolo.net> <874lbfd0sd.fsf@netris.org> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:40:19 +0100 Message-ID: <87imzpd70s.fsf@roquette.mug.biscuolo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mark, sorry for the late reply Mark H Weaver writes: > Giovanni Biscuolo writes: >> with a solid infrastructure of "scientifically" trustable build farms, >> there are no reasons not to trust substitutes servers (this implies >> working towards 100% reproducibility of GuixSD) > > What does "scientifically trustable" mean? I'm still not able to elaborate on that (working on it, a sort of self-research-hack project) but I'm referencing to this message related to reduced bootstrap tarballs: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2018-11/msg00347.html and the related reply by Jeremiah (unfortunately cannot find it in archives, Message-ID: <877eh81tm4.fsf@ITSx01.pdp10.guru>) in particular Jeremiah replied this: =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > so, if I don't get it wrong, every skilled engineer will be able to > build an "almost analogic" (zero bit of software preloaded) computing > machine ad use stage0/mes [1] as the "metre" [2] to calibrate all other > computing machines (thanks to reproducible builds)? well, I haven't thought of it in those terms but yes I guess that is one of the properties of the plan. =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- and =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > so, having the scientific proof that binary conforms to source, there > will be noo need to trust (the untrastable) Well, that is what someone else could do with it but not a direct goal of the work. =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- maybe a more correct definition of the above "scientific proof" should be "mathematical proof" I lack the theoretical basis to be more precise now, sorry :-S a marketing-like campaign sould be "no more trusting trust" best regards Giovanni =2D-=20 Giovanni Biscuolo Xelera IT Infrastructures --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEERcxjuFJYydVfNLI5030Op87MORIFAlwaPDMACgkQ030Op87M ORLmMhAA3wY2DoFzwN39wWQuqUV4PKTMl9B+9hWl6MjL7J4tPsBWkgXn1QvjOF11 Fs7aX3kZ3swDhcfXR6DL9zj8ZmZplp0AqbLVuB+31Nvyy3kjFiW38XWlv65z7XCi 9AxXHndI3IxMEbVXk0v8Vjo7R4fj9n9tmV1Vw6nnv/n3FcAusrZRF9fH0lQrd/Su 8tL/30CLuLNBJWj5xxrV6HRmvki4Jdn8G/IqNAAj0mFS2XN0zYCNf+NlmXkd/Gmj hTMpxiWRtJiGXCQEzElPZjiOw/Ce48oCqjvsCsQa5a5JY2gLp7LM8tWA/Uqo5NrC 5kuCL6Oe/izl2tex9pOMKO/wVct0bCTPLNjOJUQaUIS13V4H7yf8VhwK6Nq2KV+K wdqKmegWvaDO1jXuHBRbW8L1HXxD1YvUUrn7rXVd/DTGPeltyI38wDG6Z3L33Sli gelYo3ZC7Ia3ZtER/75sCKXqUSzBSPGbzztC6W6AsUtun8S9ofk3N5lZx4M3dssL VHb2QZtLIlkU5OMWhaKrz+szM1SQGMBYD0xoe9t3qZgUrdq78M1Yeo+qFOd3vWbA 2g7CWAx8ah9sPAC5MZiojF2OqMhRCuYSUJ/ene0ukQgr10+lY3ZunOx6bNFyJQiR NpQQFbwCfYfPCtlibrv2+QGxG38MI65WMnu+Kyc74eJTR0HtqWE= =RMw8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 20 19:25:02 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2018 00:25:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56924 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ga8cg-0000yz-BS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 19:25:02 -0500 Received: from world.peace.net ([64.112.178.59]:53514) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ga8cf-0000yS-DD for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 19:25:01 -0500 Received: from mhw by world.peace.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ga8cY-0002HQ-Cw; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 19:24:54 -0500 From: Mark H Weaver To: Giovanni Biscuolo Subject: Trustworthiness of build farms (was Re: CDN performance) References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87y38tx365.fsf@gmail.com> <878t0thfp9.fsf@roquette.mug.biscuolo.net> <874lbfd0sd.fsf@netris.org> <87imzpd70s.fsf@roquette.mug.biscuolo.net> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 19:23:47 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87imzpd70s.fsf@roquette.mug.biscuolo.net> (Giovanni Biscuolo's message of "Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:40:19 +0100") Message-ID: <87fturwwup.fsf_-_@netris.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Giovanni, Giovanni Biscuolo writes: > Mark H Weaver writes: > >> Giovanni Biscuolo writes: >>> with a solid infrastructure of "scientifically" trustable build farms, >>> there are no reasons not to trust substitutes servers (this implies >>> working towards 100% reproducibility of GuixSD) >> >> What does "scientifically trustable" mean? > > I'm still not able to elaborate on that (working on it, a sort of > self-research-hack project) but I'm referencing to this message related > to reduced bootstrap tarballs: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2018-11/msg00347.html > > and the related reply by Jeremiah (unfortunately cannot find it in > archives, Message-ID: <877eh81tm4.fsf@ITSx01.pdp10.guru>) > > in particular Jeremiah replied this: > >> so, if I don't get it wrong, every skilled engineer will be able to >> build an "almost analogic" (zero bit of software preloaded) computing >> machine ad use stage0/mes [1] as the "metre" [2] to calibrate all other >> computing machines (thanks to reproducible builds)? > > well, I haven't thought of it in those terms but yes I guess that is one > of the properties of the plan. > > > and > >> so, having the scientific proof that binary conforms to source, there >> will be noo need to trust (the untrastable) > > Well, that is what someone else could do with it but not a direct goal > of the work. > > maybe a more correct definition of the above "scientific proof" should be > "mathematical proof" I agree that a mathematical proof is what we should be aiming for, and the only kind of proof that I could trust in, in this scenario. However, it's important to note several caveats: * A mathematical proof showing that the binary conforms to the source requires a proof of correctness of the language implementation, which in turn requires formal semantics for both the source language and the underlying machine code. As far as I know, the current bootstrappable.org effort does not include anything like this. Existing projects that provide this include CakeML and Jitawa. * One must assume that the hardware behaves according to its formal specification. The veracity of this assumption is not something we can currently verify, and even if we could, it would be invalidated if someone gained physical access to the machine and modified it. * The hardware initialization program (e.g. coreboot) and the kernel used to perform the bootstrap must still be trusted, and unless I'm mistaken, the bootstrappable.org effort does not currently address these issues. * The software running on the substitute servers could be compromised by stealing SSH keys from someone with root access. * If the private signing key of the substitute server can be stolen, e.g. by gaining physical access to the machine for a short time, then a man-in-the-middle can deliver to users compromised binaries that appear to come from the substitute server itself. * Not only the substitute server, but also all of its build slaves, must be trusted as well. So, while I certainly agree that it will be a *major* improvement to avoid the need to blindly trust precompiled bootstrap binaries, we should be clear that the current efforts fall far short of a proof, and there still remain several valid reasons not to place one's trust in substitute servers. Does that make sense? Regards, Mark From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 21 05:22:36 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2018 10:22:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57165 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gaHww-0003BM-Cg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 05:22:36 -0500 Received: from mail-pg1-f171.google.com ([209.85.215.171]:40491) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gaHwt-0003B6-CV for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 05:22:31 -0500 Received: by mail-pg1-f171.google.com with SMTP id z10so2328719pgp.7 for <33600@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 02:22:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=3HRKrpXVwqEDFYX5hw37cQtSWRazOilhqHZ0Mp0DavQ=; b=uA2eI1xvhz02BxmmEGztXHpvWSJHn+EJWN4QSbBovKz9ui0DRHWrRHGY3klVjj70ZX k50ihGhg4oeqyKmHUuyVxiICjexJH5U/kJvYy2YTeeISDOGWiPbwuGqnRoSb2uktFUOo nmXJbONKGKFrxEpE2jpj1xINvb8uIjuRsA0/e9oEaOu6xvdVt/plN/QDEejkUa/KVGzF 1mW4zrLYe0W74umvE4d2haEvutXVEkHeAEvVj5EbWUks88N1KBDo5DAnQ/A7/J7XEmmT +IYBFEoa71f6Um8sorojMGSDN+vBRsnR7YDsvtzbDyBJ8pnXmfipcnQ7M86WpF2ryzvz MR6Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=3HRKrpXVwqEDFYX5hw37cQtSWRazOilhqHZ0Mp0DavQ=; b=I7SIYD2Mdz/eN0ZPWyuG433xsqCVwUvqVR0cDI7acfJsm2kNox8jq9+t9Z5XTCX8Y7 Jnt6DKkpiTAdSmx8KcxvbKxJMJydaQVRwG4kWhBAxu3pw1qCyYlGxxppqJtYLnLeR6JF NFolbVkbFoP8T3KfuQm221qn/5PhPZz03elGqSHQ2vQdhHZw2DSinqH6RT0yWJKx4r5A dTHyIF9rB3OLFfEtQL13JnWYfu2ZG4gqRF0nilMzFrM0VtH3+RAcmJU1RHUwQ6Z4LHSx KckOoaGdnRgy3/PGOopfj0QxbAh+xeF21Lay2LgJeq7pz/zshRImSfNyBFmmtTdDGusA eE6A== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcIri7rHXkT7AcjBgFwrLGRc21INkyrPNwQaAwCGzh8cyH9RhQ6 LvXvhfducN7oPpK9PrMfMr6vhsdO X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6Z1JEyRjVgFOBt6eEfQohUTKfgvhNklbJik/IfwlU1OTQdxMblJGih1Lky7OUEcWbJtPqBwg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:f65:: with SMTP id 37mr1814025pgp.238.1545387744709; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 02:22:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from garuda.local (c-73-53-106-26.hsd1.wa.comcast.net. [73.53.106.26]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r12sm27759654pgv.83.2018.12.21.02.22.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Fri, 21 Dec 2018 02:22:22 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Marusich To: Meiyo Peng Subject: Re: CDN performance References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <874lbk63se.fsf@gmail.com> <877egdyk82.fsf@gmail.com> <87d0q01wdx.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 02:22:18 -0800 In-Reply-To: <87d0q01wdx.fsf@gmail.com> (Meiyo Peng's message of "Mon, 17 Dec 2018 14:48:42 +0800") Message-ID: <87o99f9o2t.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Meiyo, Thank you for sharing this information with us! Can you also share what numbers you get when you run measure_get against berlin.guixsd.org directly? Clearly, the connection from you to CloudFront is not as performant as it is for others in other parts of the world, but I wonder if it's still better than accessing berlin directly. If you could run measure_get against berlin directly and share the numbers, we can see if it represents any significant improvement for you. Meiyo Peng writes: > I tested your script several times. > > 1. Tested today at home. China Unicom home broadband. 50Mb/s. > > The result is slow as usual. curl failed once. > berlin-mirror.marusich.info is resolved to Seattle, WA, US. Well, that's not great. Perhaps it's still better than it would be if the DNS name resolved to a location in Europe, though. > #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE > =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1= bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time = Current > Dload Upload Total Spent Left = Speed > 55 66.6M 55 36.9M 0 0 17926 0 1:04:59 0:36:02 0:28:5= 7 17733 > url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv= 9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > http_code: 200 > num_connects: 1 > num_redirects: 0 > remote_ip: 52.85.158.151 > remote_port: 443 > size_download: 38764357 B > speed_download: 17926.000 B/s > time_appconnect: 6.078850 s > time_connect: 3.006821 s > time_namelookup: 2.659785 s > time_pretransfer: 6.079097 s > time_redirect: 0.000000 s > time_starttransfer: 9.626001 s > time_total: 2162.379211 s > curl: (92) HTTP/2 stream 0 was not closed cleanly: INTERNAL_ERROR (err = 2) I see, this is about 143 Kbps (not Mbps) of throughput, and 347 ms after DNS name resolution. > =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1= bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time = Current > Dload Upload Total Spent Left = Speed > 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 109k 0 0:10:25 0:10:25 --:--:-= - 241k > url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv= 9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > http_code: 200 > num_connects: 1 > num_redirects: 0 > remote_ip: 52.85.158.22 > remote_port: 443 > size_download: 69899433 B > speed_download: 111816.000 B/s > time_appconnect: 3.507528 s > time_connect: 2.650373 s > time_namelookup: 2.261801 s > time_pretransfer: 3.507637 s > time_redirect: 0.000000 s > time_starttransfer: 5.995298 s > time_total: 625.129571 s > > =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1= bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time = Current > Dload Upload Total Spent Left = Speed > 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 109k 0 0:10:23 0:10:23 --:--:-= - 141k > url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv= 9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > http_code: 200 > num_connects: 1 > num_redirects: 0 > remote_ip: 52.85.158.22 > remote_port: 443 > size_download: 69899433 B > speed_download: 112187.000 B/s > time_appconnect: 2.280972 s > time_connect: 1.407197 s > time_namelookup: 1.056180 s > time_pretransfer: 2.281234 s > time_redirect: 0.000000 s > time_starttransfer: 3.167703 s > time_total: 623.061584 s > #+END_EXAMPLE 897 Kbps, 351 ms after the name lookup. > 2. Tested 3 days ago at my office. China Telecom enterprise broadband. 50= Mb/s. > > Unusually fast! berlin-mirror.marusich.info is resolved to Seattle, WA, > US. I have no idea why it's so fast that day. > > #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE > =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1= bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time = Current > Dload Upload Total Spent Left = Speed > 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 1364k 0 0:00:50 0:00:50 --:--:-= - 1352k > url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv= 9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > http_code: 200 > num_connects: 1 > num_redirects: 0 > remote_ip: 13.35.20.109 > remote_port: 443 > size_download: 69899433 B > speed_download: 1397429.000 B/s > time_appconnect: 2.432387 s > time_connect: 0.200842 s > time_namelookup: 0.000446 s > time_pretransfer: 2.432659 s > time_redirect: 0.000000 s > time_starttransfer: 2.673045 s > time_total: 50.020945 s 11 Mbps, 200 ms after the name lookup. > =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1= bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time = Current > Dload Upload Total Spent Left = Speed > 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 1592k 0 0:00:42 0:00:42 --:--:-= - 2506k > url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv= 9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > http_code: 200 > num_connects: 1 > num_redirects: 0 > remote_ip: 13.35.20.109 > remote_port: 443 > size_download: 69899433 B > speed_download: 1630687.000 B/s > time_appconnect: 0.653270 s > time_connect: 0.209455 s > time_namelookup: 0.001582 s > time_pretransfer: 0.658399 s > time_redirect: 0.000000 s > time_starttransfer: 0.883126 s > time_total: 42.865868 s > #+END_EXAMPLE 13 Mbps, 208 ms after the name lookup. > 3. Tested today at my office. China Telecom enterprise broadband. 50Mb/s. > > Slow as usual. berlin-mirror.marusich.info is still resolved to Seattle, > WA, US. I killed the program several times because it hung there with no > data transfer for a few minutes. The TCP connection was probably closed > by GFW. This is very common here. > > #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE > =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1= bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time = Current > Dload Upload Total Spent Left = Speed > 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 48110 0 0:24:12 0:24:12 --:--:-= - 41808 > url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv= 9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > http_code: 200 > num_connects: 1 > num_redirects: 0 > remote_ip: 52.85.158.151 > remote_port: 443 > size_download: 69899433 B > speed_download: 48110.000 B/s > time_appconnect: 0.872926 s > time_connect: 0.282048 s > time_namelookup: 0.000524 s > time_pretransfer: 0.873099 s > time_redirect: 0.000000 s > time_starttransfer: 1.187467 s > time_total: 1452.904154 s 385 Kbps, 282 ms. > =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1= bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time = Current > Dload Upload Total Spent Left = Speed > 2 66.6M 2 1809k 0 0 5760 0 3:22:15 0:05:21 3:16:5= 4 0^C% > > =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1= bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time = Current > Dload Upload Total Spent Left = Speed > 52 66.6M 52 34.9M 0 0 16772 0 1:09:27 0:36:26 0:33:0= 1 0^C% > > =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1= bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time = Current > Dload Upload Total Spent Left = Speed > 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 58181 0 0:20:01 0:20:01 --:--:-= - 87975 > url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv= 9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 > http_code: 200 > num_connects: 1 > num_redirects: 0 > remote_ip: 52.85.158.22 > remote_port: 443 > size_download: 69899433 B > speed_download: 58181.000 B/s > time_appconnect: 2.297713 s > time_connect: 1.904176 s > time_namelookup: 1.727602 s > time_pretransfer: 2.297974 s > time_redirect: 0.000000 s > time_starttransfer: 2.503263 s > time_total: 1201.408929 s 465 Kbps, 177 ms. =2D-=20 Chris --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; 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[144.34.217.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 186sm49802248pga.36.2018.12.21.08.04.19 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Fri, 21 Dec 2018 08:04:27 -0800 (PST) From: Meiyo Peng To: Chris Marusich Subject: Re: CDN performance References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <874lbk63se.fsf@gmail.com> <877egdyk82.fsf@gmail.com> <87d0q01wdx.fsf@gmail.com> <87o99f9o2t.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 00:04:12 +0800 In-Reply-To: <87o99f9o2t.fsf@gmail.com> (Chris Marusich's message of "Fri, 21 Dec 2018 02:22:18 -0800") Message-ID: <87y38isw77.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Chris, Thank you for your patience! Chris Marusich writes: > Can you also share what numbers you get when you run measure_get against > berlin.guixsd.org directly? Clearly, the connection from you to > CloudFront is not as performant as it is for others in other parts of > the world, but I wonder if it's still better than accessing berlin > directly. If you could run measure_get against berlin directly and > share the numbers, we can see if it represents any significant > improvement for you. 1. Tested today at home. China Unicom home broadband. 50Mb/s. berlin.guixsd.org: #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin.guixsd.org/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z= 9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 54 66.6M 54 36.3M 0 0 14981 0 1:17:45 0:42:25 0:35:20 = 0 url_effective: https://berlin.guixsd.org/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfz= hsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 141.80.181.40 remote_port: 443 size_download: 38141765 B speed_download: 14981.000 B/s time_appconnect: 3.228601 s time_connect: 2.213136 s time_namelookup: 0.856194 s time_pretransfer: 3.228820 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 3.851583 s time_total: 2545.889968 s curl: (56) GnuTLS recv error (-54): Error in the pull function. =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin.guixsd.org/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z= 9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 20415 0 0:57:03 0:57:03 --:--:-- = 25983 url_effective: https://berlin.guixsd.org/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfz= hsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 141.80.181.40 remote_port: 443 size_download: 69899433 B speed_download: 20415.000 B/s time_appconnect: 2.005881 s time_connect: 0.785257 s time_namelookup: 0.000520 s time_pretransfer: 2.006124 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 3.031582 s time_total: 3423.813489 s #+END_EXAMPLE berlin-mirror.marusich.info: #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq= 783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 1470k 0 0:00:46 0:00:46 --:--:-- = 2368k url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z= 9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 13.35.20.87 remote_port: 443 size_download: 69899433 B speed_download: 1505934.000 B/s time_appconnect: 3.343496 s time_connect: 3.164926 s time_namelookup: 3.060655 s time_pretransfer: 3.343581 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 5.766543 s time_total: 46.416495 s =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq= 783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 3182k 0 0:00:21 0:00:21 --:--:-- = 4612k url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z= 9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 13.35.20.87 remote_port: 443 size_download: 69899433 B speed_download: 3259170.000 B/s time_appconnect: 0.225982 s time_connect: 0.070428 s time_namelookup: 0.000483 s time_pretransfer: 0.226055 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 0.306621 s time_total: 21.447966 s #+END_EXAMPLE 2. Tested today at my office. China Telecom enterprise broadband. 50Mb/s. berlin.guixsd.org: #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin.guixsd.org/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z= 9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 3091k 0 0:00:22 0:00:22 --:--:-- = 3649k url_effective: https://berlin.guixsd.org/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfz= hsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 141.80.181.40 remote_port: 443 size_download: 69899433 B speed_download: 3166021.000 B/s time_appconnect: 3.288213 s time_connect: 2.733554 s time_namelookup: 2.486754 s time_pretransfer: 3.288320 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 3.780341 s time_total: 22.078489 s =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin.guixsd.org/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z= 9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 100 66.6M 100 66.6M 0 0 3499k 0 0:00:19 0:00:19 --:--:-- = 4011k url_effective: https://berlin.guixsd.org/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfz= hsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 141.80.181.40 remote_port: 443 size_download: 69899433 B speed_download: 3583667.000 B/s time_appconnect: 0.761166 s time_connect: 0.244415 s time_namelookup: 0.000981 s time_pretransfer: 0.761275 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 1.247935 s time_total: 19.505515 s #+END_EXAMPLE berlin-mirror.marusich.info: #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE =E2=9E=9C ~ measure_get https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq= 783rbkzv9z9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time C= urrent Dload Upload Total Spent Left S= peed 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- = 0 49 66.6M 49 32.8M 0 0 19012 0 1:01:16 0:30:13 0:31:03 = 29265 url_effective: https://berlin-mirror.marusich.info/nar/gzip/1bq783rbkzv9z= 9zdhivbvfzhsz2s5yac-linux-libre-4.19 http_code: 200 num_connects: 1 num_redirects: 0 remote_ip: 52.85.158.22 remote_port: 443 size_download: 34488133 B speed_download: 19012.000 B/s time_appconnect: 2.958899 s time_connect: 2.487483 s time_namelookup: 2.271520 s time_pretransfer: 2.959321 s time_redirect: 0.000000 s time_starttransfer: 5.447693 s time_total: 1813.938029 s curl: (92) HTTP/2 stream 0 was not closed cleanly: INTERNAL_ERROR (err 2) #+END_EXAMPLE Although both 13.35.20.0/24 and 52.85.158.0/24 IP ranges are located at Sea= ttle, the result shows that the connection to 13.35.20.0/24 is significantly fast= er. This is pretty normal in China. It's definitely caused by the GFW. Giant internet service providers (e.g. AWS) are the primary targets of the GFW. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 21 15:47:11 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2018 20:47:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58853 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gaRhP-0008Jw-7H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 15:47:11 -0500 Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.25]:58641) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gaRhO-0008Jj-7o for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 15:47:10 -0500 Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA10B22A8A; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 15:47:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 21 Dec 2018 15:47:04 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.com; h= from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm1; bh=mIEpD3nmL+TqmxzL3LBIrsxGFZ abBooaWAwIa1i/H5Q=; b=smuYFCOSyhMk7Vr5/ELneFqWTz+QCf+IOMa7dhzS4A iGpI0lm+7eQ6xWxKHpUvfFI/pzXwQyP3VvLta6XoLezq7QWfk/leVfZ1NdU1fjS3 4NZF0sG7K3++X93A2nTqiuQSpTc3efrl6t23fL37iKFhs8K0ilHk3/Gn1PohraER Qal3kAncuq0XOyzNceYDvijmNfQRCCB4lPQPNTmAUo9M234aD9is3bjI+7h9N+yg EcXqdcpkTz1GTM3+/C+eCF/77aJa03K3d0milmt6nYEgwAZwNaO/06+BogdKCKsT q7zniYa6kprJdmKLOGiTfVB5yn02Ieg2H9Oj+wMSCbrA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=mIEpD3 nmL+TqmxzL3LBIrsxGFZabBooaWAwIa1i/H5Q=; b=cM+gKJYsxBgnJ2/7aVbWxZ 6BaIX2aKASECEFrf/Q77flD32zPtyqFDxcN0yaS/Qx8LOZv5cFzuhKnjKFJNx9Jp 2nyCYkhfT6B/F26p0i0K/cXsQIHzQB98ax9qa4q9K6QLLnSzqRIwbs20Hg/f0Dk8 ZFduR+MyTu4esl2xn2K3B055dR+Qd9kWOEZ6m0yJL8k2vOONsgH9ab4J6UujJ990 xf3VmQPFS8eL+pvHC+J//uSvWqEkohowp8zPd4DEttjzzsaBHhkC73JSu/Z3wkpV Fa3IjQIxRWONYvyvP2eCf0Ea1ORrL4OFzJyJF83V3/dNAJxPyQmbUy1Cn7A1YSlw == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtkedrudejhedgudegfecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfhuthenuceurghilhhouhhtmecu fedttdenucenucfjughrpefhvffujghffgffkfggtgesghdtreertdertdenucfhrhhomh epofgrrhhiuhhsuceurghkkhgvuceomhgsrghkkhgvsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrtghomheq necuffhomhgrihhnpehgnhhurdhorhhgnecukfhppeeivddrudeirddvvdeirddugedtne curfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmsggrkhhkvgesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdgtohhm necuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: from localhost (140.226.16.62.customer.cdi.no [62.16.226.140]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B6F71E436E; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 15:47:03 -0500 (EST) From: Marius Bakke To: Giovanni Biscuolo , Mark H Weaver Subject: Re: CDN performance In-Reply-To: <87imzpd70s.fsf@roquette.mug.biscuolo.net> References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87y38tx365.fsf@gmail.com> <878t0thfp9.fsf@roquette.mug.biscuolo.net> <874lbfd0sd.fsf@netris.org> <87imzpd70s.fsf@roquette.mug.biscuolo.net> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.28 (https://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/26.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 21:47:02 +0100 Message-ID: <87zhsy8v5l.fsf@fastmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Giovanni Biscuolo writes: > Mark H Weaver writes: > >> Giovanni Biscuolo writes: >>> with a solid infrastructure of "scientifically" trustable build farms, >>> there are no reasons not to trust substitutes servers (this implies >>> working towards 100% reproducibility of GuixSD) >> >> What does "scientifically trustable" mean? > > I'm still not able to elaborate on that (working on it, a sort of > self-research-hack project) but I'm referencing to this message related > to reduced bootstrap tarballs: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2018-11/msg00347.html > > and the related reply by Jeremiah (unfortunately cannot find it in > archives, Message-ID: <877eh81tm4.fsf@ITSx01.pdp10.guru>) FWIW the GNU list search can take message IDs: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=877eh81tm4.fsf%40ITSx01.pdp10.guru&submit=Search&idxname=guix-devel --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEu7At3yzq9qgNHeZDoqBt8qM6VPoFAlwdUUYACgkQoqBt8qM6 VPruRwgAhSOerLH74Awnfrly6rUDSJy3ujd7d2AY8etcSQwf83A5XJhVJ6w2TMRw E1kE5aBeXDwL8tzfY0rvQC9BFMwouhpiR691ta8aGjXJ4XBN6VMQ2lstIR0i6jwb hsGGApGw62ftaO54DAxTr0N35aedkvWEbGYydCAJ5Hpb5LjReeCL/AU/A8lbuVYA n9KLfXuP8wv07Ss+xUdSudlDVsnnG+axXdBpP4mQl+556bsGldtz1QKGaN9l3wKR pZlM01aDmda5ZLnh/up/5LoMFmWK7SAq+sqrmKf79rxUt45FvcB3p/Yz9XIaKF3s JsMsd+SZs8m5xnM24A64jxvMUCAKLA== =W5IM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 24 21:34:23 2018 Received: (at 33600) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Dec 2018 02:34:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35683 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gbcXz-0006HN-9m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Dec 2018 21:34:23 -0500 Received: from sender-of-o53.zoho.com ([135.84.80.218]:21756) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gbcXu-0006HA-46 for 33600@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Dec 2018 21:34:18 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1545662827; cv=none; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; b=RkBZRLxl4LmMJP8C5NtTeGHaD3fSxqnMD7hjC6TUamsIGBz9YPP9/0BRkK4nmg9ExK4fkIr4MKis4ZfvNTH81IXK0iHIKDby18SGX/Uq1AbvZKdaYxoAFJIKoFEFaVyrF7By1WBtEMGBvZjvH/G+LsiisjdeSbZxlakjsJVRR1w= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zoho.com; s=zohoarc; t=1545662827; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To:ARC-Authentication-Results; bh=MTItQXVPSzmOVi643LG2UoBI7mNuG3uFeDmo/X4xWnE=; b=Vn/UgR1VVTxxksjIzmkN0BXW+bfjsjEzIng2vwyuQzR7MSgp5FZLr9q5UVgMjeWFoENt4X8UTfeWi39t1g03XrZCqfyUUW6czr0oKA8xm45tceIHpYjhx73pXbvs49XLHY5+/NfmphTIzUWQ0AnTpiXwDFuCgvWMH5nSfiT+jJc= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zoho.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@elephly.net; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1545662827; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; l=2227; bh=MTItQXVPSzmOVi643LG2UoBI7mNuG3uFeDmo/X4xWnE=; b=SOtltx+NRO84nLX1PWxEarOGJC4jNB4M5H3VOM4ypZTi+4AwfIBV8AirOFjfA3ai eVKXwpI31LYXBzwirnnWOncCIU42h2+39fb/Z72QCsu4v0o53pOnzafDHuG9S64UH0z YdgqO0Hz74nE+9DuC1WMnqzPPbGIR2gcDNHWZLo8= Received: from localhost (p578E7540.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [87.142.117.64]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1545662826551880.7773047084731; Mon, 24 Dec 2018 06:47:06 -0800 (PST) References: <20181203154335.10366-1-ludo@gnu.org> <87tvju6145.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftv7l6gy.fsf@gmail.com> <871s6qzo6m.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87y38tx365.fsf@gmail.com> <878t0thfp9.fsf@roquette.mug.biscuolo.net> User-agent: mu4e 1.0; emacs 26.1 From: Ricardo Wurmus To: Giovanni Biscuolo Subject: Re: CDN performance In-reply-to: <878t0thfp9.fsf@roquette.mug.biscuolo.net> X-URL: https://elephly.net X-PGP-Key: https://elephly.net/rekado.pubkey X-PGP-Fingerprint: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2018 15:47:01 +0100 Message-ID: <87ftunq8wq.fsf@mdc-berlin.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 33600 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , Chris Marusich , 33600@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Giovanni, > for this very reason IMHO we should work towards a network of **very > trusted** build farms directly managed and controlled by the GuixSD > project sysadmins; if build farms will be able to quickly provide > substitutes, caching mirrors will be _much more_ effective than today > > ... and a network of "automated guix challenge" servers to spot > not-reproducible software in GuixSD > > with a solid infrastructure of "scientifically" trustable build farms, > there are no reasons not to trust substitutes servers (this implies > working towards 100% reproducibility of GuixSD) This sets the bar very high. I administer berlin.guix.info / ci.guix.info (same server) and most of the associated build nodes, but I don=E2=80=99t think people should trust these computers more than their own computers or those managed by people they personally know. The build servers do the same work that a user would do who builds software locally without substitutes; the builders are supposed to behave just like any other user. (And we can challenge their authority with =E2=80=9Cguix challenge=E2=80=9D.) I want us to keep in mind that bui= ld farms don=E2=80=99t necessarily deserve any more trust than other computers you d= on=E2=80=99t control. Substitute servers are a convenience. To improve distribution of binaries we are committed to working on different strategies at the same time: - improve our processes so that non-critical package changes only hit the master branch when we have already built the package and made it available for distribution. - improve availability of the single server berlin.guix.info by hooking it up to a CDN via the name ci.guix.info (from which users can easily opt out by changing their default substitute server to berlin.guix.info). - improve redundancy by setting up an off-site fail-over for the head of the build farm at berlin.guix.info (such as bayfront). - distribute build artefacts over IPFS without requiring a central authority All of these things can be done in parallel by different people. This increases the project=E2=80=99s resilience and the options that users can c= hoose from. -- Ricardo From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:34:18 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 12:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 05 11:19:20 2019 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Mar 2019 16:19:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33379 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h1Cmm-00076h-6G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:19:20 -0500 Received: from relay11.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.231]:45929) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h1Cmk-00076U-Cs for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:19:18 -0500 Received: from bababa (lfbn-1-12225-33.w90-92.abo.wanadoo.fr [90.92.41.33]) (Authenticated sender: mail@ambrevar.xyz) by relay11.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8D072100006 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 16:19:15 +0000 (UTC) User-agent: mu4e 1.0; emacs 26.1 From: Pierre Neidhardt To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: unarchive 33600 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 17:19:15 +0100 Message-ID: <875zsxgupo.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain unarchive 33600 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEUPM+LlsMPZAEJKvom9z0l6S7zH8FAlx+oYMACgkQm9z0l6S7 zH+irQf/VdPjKDt+TYVxsxRjvDjdrUuPo0KKTPlpoRObBfxPJ+C/AQmn6AYcfoT1 vyey+lcSeFrnEfo1hIYlCT9T1TRIC+qIaK61BQVsMQV29o7wiJz2zSKw4bGDdGwk 2w7Dhcw8cM8V1mRQ5jppM4wtl0zq1AWwuQy2ehOOQ8H2Nt99zLYnbKC7GIqaSpZV JeTmcc7gIoNEZeZOcsxhmsrICXgj7b+edyuZzTJbz21vV+XFFx/gIWlnYhpR8vZH ws9m+YsRs1yxGNiNPdqH53ibKeY3l57hunzI6ICMS6+8qy+n/midjhN4Fql2CuKC 9kJBj1Z0wBVwLMgrAcyueVBekmyVZA== =zIMj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:34:18 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2019 11:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator