From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:14:06 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33164: 26.1; Compiled function information in *Help* Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:07:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 33164 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 33164@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.154056638218185 (code B ref -1); Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:07:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2018 15:06:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44227 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gG3gs-0004jE-0R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:06:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57230) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gG3gp-0004iz-Qn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:06:20 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gG3gi-0001Ck-91 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:06:14 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:40919) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gG3gg-0001Ba-3S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:06:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38523) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gG3gc-0004Sh-SI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:06:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gG3gM-00012V-Br for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:05:57 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:57474) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gG3gL-00010x-Un for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:05:50 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w9QEwgwb147855 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:05:47 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=268HnFEhQD76dhgsvf3IKpbFw/zVRTopgRFZS1aSOTQ=; b=QiuOAied9XEBsUFRTE6/Cv2iwrSveiAHY5zkJez6ubbVv8B/TETnvjKK/n/4R4GEqbAm YnqMW4RKs1MAGCCS3Imp6LdFXQxFJb9MgjyQWHd880uo0LgdazE7n2bF13dDj8JjakBc 7bMm7e2UMRCUTfqZiRCreFA74+zkuCcnnO233cZe4wcm+y3x3TYQzkAZnI/Qvq0q1uus Ak/uz4gCXr0ziSPEXv6cqXT71wE1+qQd3onCmcmn7fGCW4AeGCg82XekcCOUoZSxccvA sCyq6sum1ske7oJsQTxFkoxSpsbqQx3e5XJw/q8wjvn9OOrkSh7xHiNThcQtpE2Tv3Z5 lg== Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2n7vaqfs6n-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:05:46 +0000 Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w9QF5ewt013118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:05:40 GMT Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w9QF5e4G007631 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:05:40 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 08:05:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4756.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9057 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=1 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=958 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1810260128 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) emacs -Q C-h v region-extract-function tells me: region-extract-function is a variable defined in 'simple.el'. Its value is #f(compiled-function (method) #) ... There is a link to `simple.el'. And the # is also a link, to the disassembled byte-code. This is a bit more helpful than what we had in Emacs 24 (which was the byte-code, printed). But it is less helpful than what we had back in Emacs 23, which printed the name or the lambda expression of the function that is the value of the variable. Examples: comment-line-break-function is a variable defined in `simple.el'. Its value is comment-indent-new-line completion-annotate-function is a variable defined in `minibuffer.el'. Its value is (lambda (var) (and (custom-variable-p (intern-soft var)) " (option)")) Such description provided lots of helpful information, and we've lost that now. I guess this comes from eager macroexpansion (?). But is there no way for our help system to know what the function name or original lambda expression is, and print that? Yes, it would be helpful for it to _also_ provide the info that the value is actually the byte-compilation of that function, when that is the case, and to provide a link to the disassembly of that byte-code. But just showing the byte code, even disassembled, is not so helpful. What if a user wants to go to the function definition, to use it as a model for defining a new value for the variable or just to study it? Our help system should not become _less_ helpful just because we find ways to optimize Emacs or make other improvements. From a help perspective, this is a step backward for users. But maybe I'm missing something? Is there currently some way to get to the source code defining the function that is the variable value? In GNU Emacs 26.1 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2018-05-30 built on CIRROCUMULUS Repository revision: 07f8f9bc5a51f5aa94eb099f3e15fbe0c20ea1ea Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.16299 From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:14:06 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33164: 26.1; Compiled function information in *Help* Resent-From: Noam Postavsky Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 13:28:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33164 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 33164@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 33164-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33164.15407332767971 (code B ref 33164); Sun, 28 Oct 2018 13:28:02 +0000 Received: (at 33164) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2018 13:27:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46826 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gGl6h-00024Q-Dy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 09:27:55 -0400 Received: from mail-it1-f169.google.com ([209.85.166.169]:40564) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gGl6f-000244-2h; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 09:27:53 -0400 Received: by mail-it1-f169.google.com with SMTP id i191-v6so6575478iti.5; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 06:27:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=AalOzwAQ+NxDu1CKiy8K0Qmz+arRWlD198gigm0Wwls=; b=WmxPV7Dq00BQwqFHlQ/bWMK/fwjrei8D2fcBJt35o7emSuqxSucyiqXX2dypDcWvIg q5jaXGv+sfS7CmzrzompbTXnPtPAieriMjulY+m7bQf0nq6sonufRjqipQpChBMHdZb1 R7PNGlZwPUYMeVzqAN82KOJO4iNYnQmqlhm1PzyQ4nH9BRc4xvTMCufLqGpWV3OUZ/S7 epWgr9dCf2t2/OXxH4SUXT4yD710KNK9PmONR1gGq19UU51St2SFGkxkClLX8ffH+9Uu QJi1NrzfNbDVcTNCgBhrgMTQCew9AD2a/W/+/6H7oEOeMZwPkctyPAmpj8jOmZVGafBa Fg7w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=AalOzwAQ+NxDu1CKiy8K0Qmz+arRWlD198gigm0Wwls=; b=t6/dNCd7HHcQieKdE6nQz8876ObAooXyiFZmGVvRoPjyDN4kEX2l1AIRluZIgJuK/b gkCbWjjWpWXrB1rIwwqA31SD+DAgx+H3ZNhMyv12vPrVaZyq5WlUeG1rvG2h++FQ1FKK A5mqYuEnMcH2ivHFoNAOgPVBdXmlFNOrsucewK8A9d/pl+ADxWoseUbNrnLOLZtT4mWY e9c3x9d0rPWJ/LCoDc0/djqbE86FTM2MTMJMwZwoqHrDyZYKcCudjF6lUzDqWfXP1o6i bwS/UdpiNdYvvax5RCe3IaYqdpyBbwYrpdDi3AlPFG8hqfwLOJDzVBo7VfNlBxlkHyRn Sqig== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gLtne6wX/zsgeEc2ai+G1NcMYrwcWQ8D0rsv/uoJCAu7GH5J3bo j/VowQc8Ctoe/27XkMZDgrA1sYc8 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5f/YkJ6C06bPL+lDhtaaczr8jbABLMLpFRwgOwWImN2VkPfbswtoeAqge44S5YOZBjIbQlXpQ== X-Received: by 2002:a02:39b:: with SMTP id e27-v6mr3413905jae.3.1540733267416; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 06:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zebian (cbl-45-2-119-34.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca. [45.2.119.34]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id j75-v6sm5181671itj.33.2018.10.28.06.27.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 28 Oct 2018 06:27:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Postavsky In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 26 Oct 2018 08:05:39 -0700 (PDT)") References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 09:27:45 -0400 Message-ID: <877ei2jj5a.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) retitle 33164 Compiled function value information in *Help* quit Drew Adams writes: > C-h v region-extract-function tells me: > > region-extract-function is a variable defined in 'simple.el'. > Its value is #f(compiled-function (method) #) > ... > > There is a link to `simple.el'. And the # is also a link, > to the disassembled byte-code. > But it is less helpful than what we had back in Emacs 23, which printed > the name or the lambda expression of the function that is the value of > the variable. Examples: > > comment-line-break-function is a variable defined in `simple.el'. > Its value is comment-indent-new-line This one is still the same in newer Emacs versions. > But just showing the byte code, even disassembled, is not so helpful. > What if a user wants to go to the function definition, to use it as a > model for defining a new value for the variable or just to study it? Similarly, C-h v float-pi tells me float-pi is a variable defined in =E2=80=98float-sup.el=E2=80=99. Its value is 3.141592653589793 It doesn't show me (* 4 (atan 1)) for study. > But maybe I'm missing something? Is there currently some way to get to > the source code defining the function that is the variable value? In this case, the link to `simple.el' takes you there because it's the default value. But in general, no, that information is not saved anywhere. The easiest fix is to say we should never assign anonymous functions to variables (there have already been a couple of cases where some anonymous function values were given names), so then they would all show a symbol like comment-line-break-function. From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:14:06 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33164: 26.1; Compiled function information in *Help* Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 14:18:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33164 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Noam Postavsky Cc: 33164@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 33164-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33164.154073626222833 (code B ref 33164); Sun, 28 Oct 2018 14:18:01 +0000 Received: (at 33164) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2018 14:17:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49169 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gGlss-0005wD-JG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 10:17:42 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:43488) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gGlso-0005vv-8A for 33164@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 10:17:38 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w9SE8cuK064117; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 14:17:32 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=i/4MYclhERilBgXYuparIM1jmlAojEupJmPspsJLTRA=; b=bDm2QOGyEKS0edXQAqYQss9WDRByx7Vr7TRncB18YNVh1CqurQ5dhePEco2TAtoEsX3w z7pJZRzDPtoABsRZNL3Kd9RFdp80BWskP/OGsbuQI7lxFZKhG/5PQwrONJJ0IR8oErBD JgMyEH63vTmTrvrn2Tkya1YzPqgBoRxYMvWwuMhJudmKBuJ+wN55kTtthVGlnDPirFoj OQXb0D/2gpIjkJujAhNNqmtG5afWPRwntHExmiGHeeDiOEn3mpVDQXO+jYd80Hl2zps2 ioA0kx32MFTA0rwVKE5FlqeoVz9lWzWTN2/gZdbYd2ZNnh1kyfTeOKqOTxOuVrgtdVJc 8g== Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ncgnqj8jm-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 28 Oct 2018 14:17:32 +0000 Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w9SEHVlq015592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 28 Oct 2018 14:17:31 GMT Received: from abhmp0012.oracle.com (abhmp0012.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w9SEHUO9012740; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 14:17:31 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0e796704-669a-4c58-9530-cd810d56494e@default> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 07:17:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <877ei2jj5a.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <877ei2jj5a.fsf@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4756.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9059 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=854 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1810280133 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > In this case, the link to `simple.el' takes you there because it's the > default value. But in general, no, that information is not saved > anywhere. Yes, what you say makes sense. I guess I am wondering whether the byte-compiler might (be made to) record the source in the byte-compiled function definition. A byte-compiled file records the absolute name of the source file, as well as the Emacs release/build and the time of the compilation (creation of the .elc). Perhaps some "source" location information could be recorded in the byte-code, and be retrievable by a help function? In the case of a source definition in a file, the info could be similar to what we record in a .elc. But perhaps even if the source code were in a buffer, or even via `M-:', perhaps some textual indication/description of that source could be recorded, along with the date & time. Just a thought. Yes, that would increase byte-code size, and it should anyway be optional I guess. But it might allow for a little more introspection than what we can get now (disassembled code). If you want to recast this bug report as an enhancement request along those lines, perhaps (again) retitling, please do so. > The easiest fix is to say we should never assign anonymous functions to > variables (there have already been a couple of cases where some > anonymous function values were given names), so then they would all show > a symbol like comment-line-break-function. That would not be something I'd ask for or appreciate. I want to be able to get more info about existing function values, not reduce the types of function values we can assign to variables. It can be helpful for help functions if someone uses a symbol (providing a name and perhaps a source location), but users need to be able to define and assign code as values on the fly. The idea of this report is to ask for possible improvement in the introspection of byte-code values - specifically time and location of definition. From unknown Fri Jun 13 11:14:06 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#33164: Compiled function value information in *Help* Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 14:06:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33164 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Noam Postavsky Cc: 33164@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams Received: via spool by 33164-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33164.162445712928142 (code B ref 33164); Wed, 23 Jun 2021 14:06:01 +0000 Received: (at 33164) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jun 2021 14:05:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41607 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lw3VR-0007Jp-Lw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 10:05:29 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49168) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lw3VP-0007Ja-P6 for 33164@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 10:05:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Iuz37rAjCW6IApn8S9PDl1519wFKmallysdkiXQaF0g=; b=kvXtGY39sgAhdX7XRRzEinwJOO VUamh0vkLoe/XprbNTqoFgd95Lu8msux6BjdFcaFpbGZ2cOPbgj0/jAfUApS3s3+LwSOQ30bBXxgm t47EqK+b4bWFY4BebRYcKmHVI2iJ/KzOPHq0zu4QFI3s+Y9Cy7qHs+0/p9tvvg8nridM=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lw3VG-0005YZ-0o; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 16:05:20 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <877ei2jj5a.fsf@gmail.com> X-Now-Playing: The Clash's _Sandinista!_: "The Equaliser" Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 16:05:17 +0200 In-Reply-To: <877ei2jj5a.fsf@gmail.com> (Noam Postavsky's message of "Sun, 28 Oct 2018 09:27:45 -0400") Message-ID: <87bl7wllr6.fsf_-_@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Noam Postavsky writes: >> But it is less helpful than what we had back in Emacs 23, which printed >> the name or the lambda expression of the function that is the value of >> the variable. Examples: >> >> comment-line-break [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Noam Postavsky writes: >> But it is less helpful than what we had back in Emacs 23, which printed >> the name or the lambda expression of the function that is the value of >> the variable. Examples: >> >> comment-line-break-function is a variable defined in `simple.el'. >> Its value is comment-indent-new-line > > This one is still the same in newer Emacs versions. > >> But just showing the byte code, even disassembled, is not so helpful. >> What if a user wants to go to the function definition, to use it as a >> model for defining a new value for the variable or just to study it? > > Similarly, C-h v float-pi tells me > > float-pi is a variable defined in =E2=80=98float-sup.el=E2=80=99. > Its value is 3.141592653589793 > > It doesn't show me (* 4 (atan 1)) for study. The help buffer shows the actual value of the variable, which may be set somewhere else than it has been defined. It's not feasible for the Emacs help system to take you to all locations a variable has been changed, so I'm closing this bug report. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 23 10:05:33 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jun 2021 14:05:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41610 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lw3VU-0007K4-TD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 10:05:33 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49182) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lw3VT-0007Jg-Fq for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 10:05:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Vcd66+ghfZfsLHY+uZs/+NNwA8SGDkYkxtyQR3xtRbA=; b=LEEGc7HsM83CY/7uxNvYmU5O93 kSzVkhxSWbb7XxL+5JAspVz0HSPEfLQlUwyhbMzlgMJxhyZJF3Q5rtugRXwlNE72F3KAvrfZ0/3zV g3NsG/FUKHMwE2bhuJKS20/KmBrf2Vm2Af/A9HNFQkwkPBGGT66IdPMhsscW5JtoHmfc=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lw3VM-0005Yh-4o for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 16:05:26 +0200 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 16:05:23 +0200 Message-Id: <87a6ngllr0.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #33164 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 33164 wontfix close 33164 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 33164 wontfix close 33164 quit