GNU bug report logs - #33093
26.1, 7.2 emacs-mac; M-x list-colors-display RET; L1 is black on black

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 26.1, 7.2 emacs-mac; M-x list-colors-display RET; L1 is black on black
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 21:55:43 +1100

Hello,

The *Colors* buffer has black text on color backgrounds that is not always readable.

Line 1 has black text on black background. The cursor does blink the character which is then readable, very, very briefly.

Line 22 has black text on blue background which for me isn’t easy to read. The medium blue on the next line is difficult for black text.

I’d like to suggest color contrast arcs through a distorted triangle colorspace for choosing textcolor always in contrast to the background color for easy reading. In the case of black, blue, medium blue background the text color is white. Perhaps, only a dozen special cases are needed to switch black to white text color and the colorspace idea is overkill.

Thanks.

Message #8 received at 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
Cc: 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#33093: 26.1, 7.2 emacs-mac; M-x list-colors-display RET;
 L1 is black on black
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 15:33:17 +0300

> From: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 21:55:43 +1100
> 
> The *Colors* buffer has black text on color backgrounds that is not always readable.

Each color's name is shown twice, once when the color is used as
background, the other time it is used as foreground.  Are you saying
that you see neither of these two for some colors?  If so, what is
your background color (assuming this isn't in "emacs -Q")?

> I’d like to suggest color contrast arcs through a distorted triangle colorspace for choosing textcolor always in contrast to the background color for easy reading. In the case of black, blue, medium blue background the text color is white. Perhaps, only a dozen special cases are needed to switch black to white text color and the colorspace idea is overkill.

How will this work with our intent to show the color both as
foreground and as background?

Message #11 received at 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#33093: 26.1, 7.2 emacs-mac; M-x list-colors-display RET;
 L1 is black on black
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:12:29 +1100

>> The *Colors* buffer has black text on color backgrounds that is not always readable.
> 
> Each color's name is shown twice, once when the color is used as
> background, the other time it is used as foreground.  Are you saying
> that you see neither of these two for some colors?

I see three columns. As an aside, previously my background color was ‘antique white’ now it is ‘gainsboro’. Back to here. The columns according to how I interpret them:

 1. text on color bar, this is the background-color, and the text is unreadable at line 1 (black on black)
 2. the same color as foreground-color, the black text is readable on my normal background color
 3. the RGB hex values

I am saying the problem is in column one where WYSIWYG background-color and text color are identical it is unreadable.

And, in cases, such as blue, medium blue, the column one’s presentation is difficult to read the black text.

>> I’d like to suggest color contrast arcs through a distorted triangle colorspace for choosing textcolor always in contrast to the background color for easy reading. In the case of black, blue, medium blue background the text color is white. Perhaps, only a dozen special cases are needed to switch black to white text color and the colorspace idea is overkill.
> 
> How will this work with our intent to show the color both as
> foreground and as background?

I’m suggest in column one, where the black text is too close to the background-color being demonstrated, such as blue, medium blue, that the text-color in column one should be inversed to white from black.

Message #14 received at 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
Cc: 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#33093: 26.1, 7.2 emacs-mac; M-x list-colors-display RET;
 L1 is black on black
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 15:28:05 +0300

> From: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
> Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:12:29 +1100
> Cc: 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > Each color's name is shown twice, once when the color is used as
> > background, the other time it is used as foreground.  Are you saying
> > that you see neither of these two for some colors?
> 
> I see three columns. As an aside, previously my background color was ‘antique white’ now it is ‘gainsboro’. Back to here. The columns according to how I interpret them:
> 
>  1. text on color bar, this is the background-color, and the text is unreadable at line 1 (black on black)
>  2. the same color as foreground-color, the black text is readable on my normal background color
>  3. the RGB hex values
> 
> I am saying the problem is in column one where WYSIWYG background-color and text color are identical it is unreadable.

Could be foe some combinations, but then the color name is legible in
the other column.

> I’m suggest in column one, where the black text is too close to the background-color being demonstrated, such as blue, medium blue, that the text-color in column one should be inversed to white from black.

Volunteers are welcome to submit patches to do that.

Message #17 received at 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#33093: 26.1, 7.2 emacs-mac; M-x list-colors-display RET;
 L1 is black on black
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 23:30:51 +0300

tags 33093 notabug
close 33093
quit

>  1. text on color bar, this is the background-color, and the text is unreadable at line 1 (black on black)
>  2. the same color as foreground-color, the black text is readable on my normal background color
>  3. the RGB hex values
>
> I am saying the problem is in column one where WYSIWYG
> background-color and text color are identical it is unreadable.

Sorry, this was implemented intentionally: the first column shows
the combination of different background colors with the user's
foreground color.  You can see its usefulness after changing the default
foreground color for example with 'M-x set-foreground-color RET blue RET'.

Message #24 received at 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
To: 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#33093: 26.1, 7.2 emacs-mac; M-x list-colors-display RET;
 L1 is black on black
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 00:32:30 +1100

> tags 33093 notabug
> close 33093
> quit
> 
> Sorry, this was implemented intentionally: the first column shows
> the combination of different background colors with the user's
> foreground color.  You can see its usefulness after changing the default
> foreground color for example with 'M-x set-foreground-color RET blue RET'.

I believe that hides the problem lower down to blue foreground on blue background.

Doing 'M-x set-foreground-color RET blue RET’ lets L1 be somewhat legible; but L22, L23 are not at all.

I confirm that.

Anyway. 

*shrug*

Message #27 received at 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
Cc: 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#33093: 26.1, 7.2 emacs-mac; M-x list-colors-display RET;
 L1 is black on black
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 22:00:25 +0300

>> Sorry, this was implemented intentionally: the first column shows
>> the combination of different background colors with the user's
>> foreground color.  You can see its usefulness after changing the default
>> foreground color for example with 'M-x set-foreground-color RET blue RET'.
>
> I believe that hides the problem lower down to blue foreground on blue background.
>
> Doing 'M-x set-foreground-color RET blue RET’ lets L1 be somewhat legible; but L22, L23 are not at all.

When a sample text is not legible this warns the user against using such
combination of foreground and background colors in user's configuration,
i.e. it's easier for users to visually skip such hardly legible text
in the list when choosing a suitable color.

Message #30 received at 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#33093: 26.1, 7.2 emacs-mac; M-x list-colors-display RET;
 L1 is black on black
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 09:02:48 +1100

> When a sample text is not legible this warns the user against using such
> combination of foreground and background colors in user's configuration,
> i.e. it's easier for users to visually skip such hardly legible text
> in the list when choosing a suitable color.

It might be not worth the effort because it is near impossible to do, but to imagine whiteclouds/bluesky, you could have the text always legible where fore/background colors are too near for contrast and a swatch-like solid cursor rectangle occupying the first position of the line represents the actual foreground color. There you see the fore/background colors are in fact indistinguishable. Just a wild idea.

Message #33 received at 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
Cc: 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#33093: 26.1, 7.2 emacs-mac; M-x list-colors-display RET;
 L1 is black on black
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 09:34:27 +0300

> From: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 09:02:48 +1100
> Cc: 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> It might be not worth the effort because it is near impossible to do, but to imagine whiteclouds/bluesky, you could have the text always legible where fore/background colors are too near for contrast and a swatch-like solid cursor rectangle occupying the first position of the line represents the actual foreground color. There you see the fore/background colors are in fact indistinguishable. Just a wild idea.

You mean, you think Emacs should change the foreground color without
user's say-so, just because the contrast against the background is
low?  That might be optional behavior, but certainly not the default.

(We do have infrastructure in place to test whether contrast between
background and foreground colors is low.)

Message #36 received at 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
To: 33093 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#33093: 26.1, 7.2 emacs-mac; M-x list-colors-display RET;
 L1 is black on black
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 12:46:44 +1100

> You mean, you think Emacs should change the foreground color without
> user's say-so,

No. I mean, where there is text it should be legible and if not then say so.

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