From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 19 15:06:11 2018 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2018 19:06:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45990 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g2hnf-0004eW-3Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:06:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55049) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g2hjq-0004Xt-1a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:02:14 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2hjc-0008DM-Rd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:02:08 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:33132) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2hja-0008CS-MD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:01:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47771) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2hjZ-0000fn-TV for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:01:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2hjW-00087P-HO for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:01:57 -0400 Received: from 33123.s.time4vps.cloud ([109.235.71.109]:43130) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2hjW-0007xC-5f for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:01:54 -0400 Received: from wsip-72-215-159-34.hr.hr.cox.net ([72.215.159.34] helo=[192.168.3.2]) by 33123.s.time4vps.cloud with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1g2hjO-00070Y-99 for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 22:01:46 +0300 To: bug-coreutils@gnu.org From: Ivan Perez Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:01:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------4E87D343A69A0BBA4C93EA23" Content-Language: en-US X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 72.215.159.34 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: ivan.perez@keera.co.uk Subject: Filenames with spaces in ls X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sun, 08 Jan 2012 02:45:44 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on 33123.s.time4vps.cloud) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:06:10 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4E87D343A69A0BBA4C93EA23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, In a fresh Ubuntu installation, file names with spaces and strange symbols are now quoted. If find this annoying, non-intuitive and, in principle, wrong (I'll explain below). I initially wrote this email a few weeks ago, and decided not to send it without honestly giving it a real try. Since it's been over a month now, I've decided to send it. I understand that this is configurable for ls, but that means, every time or every user needs to do this. It is difficult to understand how many people are for or against. There's always a couple of people in favour of it in the mailing list, and a lot against (but I acknowledge that that may not reflect the true proportion). The new behaviour can be annoying, and can make it harder to process information quickly. This may be a matter of preference, but the presence of the extra quote and the misalignment that that causes draws one's attention to the quote. File names with similar but related names no longer appear aligned in ls which, again, draws attention to the quote when one is processing long lists of files. It also makes names with quotes pretty hard to understand. I have read about the reasons *for* doing this. While the new behaviour helps copy & paste, it's counter intuitive, because the symbol is not part of the name (but it could be). Ultimately, the rationale could be simpler: the quote symbol is *just not there in the file name*. Please, make literal the default for ls (and any other program that may be affected by this). All the best, Ivan --------------4E87D343A69A0BBA4C93EA23 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,

In a fresh Ubuntu installation, file names with spaces and strange symbols are now quoted.

If find this annoying, non-intuitive and, in principle, wrong (I'll explain below).

I initially wrote this email a few weeks ago, and decided not to send it without honestly giving it a real try. Since it's been over a month now, I've decided to send it.

I understand that this is configurable for ls, but that means, every time or every user needs to do this. It is difficult to understand how many people are for or against. There's always a couple of people in favour of it in the mailing list, and a lot against (but I acknowledge that that may not reflect the true proportion).

The new behaviour can be annoying, and can make it harder to process information quickly. This may be a matter of preference, but the presence of the extra quote and the misalignment that that causes draws one's attention to the quote. File names with similar but related names no longer appear aligned in ls which, again, draws attention to the quote when one is processing long lists of files. It also makes names with quotes pretty hard to understand.

I have read about the reasons *for* doing this. While the new behaviour helps copy & paste, it's counter intuitive, because the symbol is not part of the name (but it could be).

Ultimately, the rationale could be simpler: the quote symbol is *just not there in the file name*.

Please, make literal the default for ls (and any other program that may be affected by this).

All the best,

Ivan

--------------4E87D343A69A0BBA4C93EA23-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 19 15:46:11 2018 Received: (at 32774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2018 19:46:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46026 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g2iQN-0005n7-4M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:46:11 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:44084) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g2iQL-0005ml-2Q for 32774@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:46:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0615C160806; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id poIC8FsiVA4n; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B25416169D; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:46:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id VXoruCFVyrW9; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-23-242-74-103.socal.res.rr.com [23.242.74.103]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 28A1E160806; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#32774: Filenames with spaces in ls To: Ivan Perez , 32774@debbugs.gnu.org References: From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:46:01 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32774 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Ivan Perez wrote: > the presence of the extra quote and the misalignment that that causes draws > one's attention to the quote. That's part of the intent. The quotes draw the reader's attention to the oddball file name, which is a good thing since these file names can cause trouble when they are cut and pasted from 'ls' output. > File names with similar but related names no longer appear aligned in ls That depends on what one means by 'appear aligned'. In this 'ls -l' output: -rw-rw-r--. 1 eggert eggert 0 Sep 19 12:39 a -rw-rw-r--. 1 eggert eggert 0 Sep 19 12:39 'a b' -rw-rw-r--. 1 eggert eggert 0 Sep 19 12:39 a-b all three file names are aligned to start at the same screen column; there's a column of 'a's that line up, and the quotes are not part of the quoted file name. I prefer having file names aligned like that, and wouldn't favor aligning the opening quote to be equal to the unquoted files' initial 'a's. Admittedly preferences differ, but alignment is not really the issue here; it's the quotes that people are largely objecting to. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 29 23:58:58 2018 Received: (at 32774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2018 03:58:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52900 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gHLBC-0001mt-0o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 23:58:58 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f177.google.com ([209.85.210.177]:44110) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gHLB9-0001mb-S4; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 23:58:56 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f177.google.com with SMTP id j13-v6so1595453pff.11; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 20:58:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=bafo4SYgEOsgi7c40KfuGYnxfgp3NmV21PuWYajq68c=; b=KtiBchCsFfMZ75H/P62Em6Fo8+4BIGNxBEuAFPWiv55XBuQ6pp+EyUdCJ+eEQsIEqt 5eiUd7z9usgNPA/njAYtXVL/eHxFls7zt671owtBfgV7FJjHbTU192OB71Xv6oXX4bJR 55UXLqYKEeA1h+QmpbxbcYAetW1lqDjW5Gjw5INGz+RJ67ZfYI1zmrEbWLoorWc/pgI5 plxdX/RMhWxkT2GCyVMVnPrfy3mWzvwzkn3tl1JM9Jp5uR7Ex88EZsmVVsDyK59Ga56W Uw1kOU/Jne2iifE6juAEkJsmM3xgLisoXHtxIrqnEgcg9GIdKARpf5Up0AyZKPdAeI3M Y6Cw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=bafo4SYgEOsgi7c40KfuGYnxfgp3NmV21PuWYajq68c=; b=jHEq0Gj5s6Bz7/jdeEXIBwajCN5izWh4wglYU0CaDODSTpZpqxbrahXz4bFn/vMbyV QVrfKb9nlck70jjI+ofi/8LbUNqnucgNY6XNVMBUb9W8OVodZLwCMUfyqnNiCdjn8tDv RiiPe7wbuAV9TvshYKj4+os6whEUR8ZYQJ2XtkPo8+8/EJl+aFqrjPKmzigkqyczR8UP XulK5WIG5+qOi+pQ3ukuHqkMVV53z7IVh22pccQK6GWmOLbHHkhoUrIWAq4tzCLX6zOQ MvibN1GpJCPJ3VLQFL1hriZ9hjEp66OgwqZFX0vp/ABzPrPvwocTIK6Any6rLvOAn+0U E5cQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJXQt9PMc54HTLffdgh7VamilXfnlFFAgnnjflldUcFHbrPvde5 2TWMH8levIMtUR0zF7a2PVPJ4rm/nqI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5fF8EeeKFr76EjcT8Gf3MXS3BuEPRvr7oZzyVsHCP/oD3LKcQTIWB1D4enxvNtwoB5TxOqF+A== X-Received: by 2002:a63:6fc7:: with SMTP id k190-v6mr245094pgc.360.1540871929519; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 20:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tomato.housegordon.com (moose.housegordon.com. [184.68.105.38]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id g72-v6sm23151310pfd.181.2018.10.29.20.58.47 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 29 Oct 2018 20:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#32774: Filenames with spaces in ls To: Ivan Perez , 32774@debbugs.gnu.org References: From: Assaf Gordon Message-ID: Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 21:58:46 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32774 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 32774 notabug close 32774 stop On 2018-09-19 1:46 p.m., Paul Eggert wrote: > Ivan Perez wrote: >> the presence of the extra quote and the misalignment that that causes >> draws one's attention to the quote. > That's part of the intent. The quotes draw the reader's attention to the > oddball file name, which is a good thing since these file names can > cause trouble when they are cut and pasted from 'ls' output. > Given the above, I'm closing this bug. -assaf From unknown Fri Aug 15 18:05:47 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 12:24:12 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator