GNU bug report logs - #32733
26; (dired-x) `Shell Command Guessing' typo

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 26; (dired-x) `Shell Command Guessing' typo
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 21:27:00 -0700 (PDT)

This is not clear:

  If '*' in the shell command, that means to substitute the file name.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Probably it should be something like "If `*' appears in the shell
command..." or "If there is an asterisk (`*') in the shell command..."
or "If the shell command contains `*'...".

In GNU Emacs 26.1 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32)
 of 2018-05-30
Repository revision: 07f8f9bc5a51f5aa94eb099f3e15fbe0c20ea1ea
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.16299
Configured using:
 `configure --without-dbus --host=x86_64-w64-mingw32
 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=-O2 -static -g3''

Message #8 received at 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32733: 26; (dired-x) `Shell Command Guessing' typo
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 09:28:22 +0200

Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

> This is not clear:
>
>   If '*' in the shell command, that means to substitute the file name.
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Probably it should be something like "If `*' appears in the shell
> command..." or "If there is an asterisk (`*') in the shell command..."
> or "If the shell command contains `*'...".
>

How about:

A @samp{*} in the shell command is replaced by the file name.

Message #11 received at 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#32733: 26; (dired-x) `Shell Command Guessing' typo
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 06:39:42 -0700 (PDT)

> How about:
> A @samp{*} in the shell command is replaced by the file name.

Good.

Message #14 received at 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32733: 26; (dired-x) `Shell Command Guessing' typo
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 16:01:35 +0200

tags 32733 fixed
close 32733 26.2
quit

Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

>> How about:
>> A @samp{*} in the shell command is replaced by the file name.
>
> Good.

Pushed as 219893a519 to emacs-26

Regards

Robert

PS Drew, Iʼm surprised you donʼt make these kind of changes directly
yourself, rather than opening a bug.

Message #21 received at 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: rpluim <at> gmail.com, 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32733: 26; (dired-x) `Shell Command Guessing' typo
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 20:47:51 -0400

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > A @samp{*} in the shell command is replaced by the file name.

How about putting that in the active voice?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Message #24 received at 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>, 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32733: 26; (dired-x) `Shell Command Guessing' typo
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 14:57:54 +0200

Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org> writes:

> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
>   > > A @samp{*} in the shell command is replaced by the file name.
>
> How about putting that in the active voice?

I guess thatʼs possible, but it would make that sentence be very
different in tone from the surrounding text.

Robert

Message #27 received at 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: rms <at> gnu.org, 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32733: 26; (dired-x) `Shell Command Guessing' typo
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 16:21:20 +0300

> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 14:57:54 +0200
> Cc: 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> >   > > A @samp{*} in the shell command is replaced by the file name.
> >
> > How about putting that in the active voice?
> 
> I guess thatʼs possible, but it would make that sentence be very
> different in tone from the surrounding text.

Not sure what surrounding text is alluded to here, but I'd just say

  A @samp{*} in the shell command stands for the file name that
  matched the regexp.

Message #30 received at 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: rms <at> gnu.org, 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32733: 26; (dired-x) `Shell Command Guessing' typo
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 15:36:54 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
>> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 14:57:54 +0200
>> Cc: 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> 
>> >   > > A @samp{*} in the shell command is replaced by the file name.
>> >
>> > How about putting that in the active voice?
>> 
>> I guess thatʼs possible, but it would make that sentence be very
>> different in tone from the surrounding text.
>
> Not sure what surrounding text is alluded to here, but I'd just say
>
>   A @samp{*} in the shell command stands for the file name that
>   matched the regexp.

I donʼt find that notably clearer nor more 'active'.

Message #33 received at 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: rms <at> gnu.org, 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32733: 26; (dired-x) `Shell Command Guessing' typo
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 17:19:08 +0300

> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
> Cc: rms <at> gnu.org,  32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 15:36:54 +0200
> 
> >   A @samp{*} in the shell command stands for the file name that
> >   matched the regexp.
> 
> I donʼt find that notably clearer nor more 'active'.

I think it's slightly better, although not overwhelmingly so.
However, we make a point of avoiding passive tense in our
documentation, so it makes sense to try to avoid it even if the effect
is relatively minor.

Message #36 received at 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: drew.adams <at> oracle.com, 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32733: 26; (dired-x) `Shell Command Guessing' typo
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 23:36:34 -0400

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > How about putting that in the active voice?

  > I guess thatʼs possible, but it would make that sentence be very
  > different in tone from the surrounding text.

If the surrounding text uses passive voice, please try rewriting
that text to use active voice.  That is one of our
guidelines for writing.  See GNU Manuals in the GNU Coding Standards.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Message #39 received at 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: rpluim <at> gmail.com, 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32733: 26; (dired-x) `Shell Command Guessing' typo
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 23:41:31 -0400

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

    > A @samp{*} in the shell command stands for the file name that
    > matched the regexp.

That's an improvement.  It is a little easier to read
than the passive sentence, a little clearer.

Once in a while there is a good reason to use passive voice.
Most of the time, replacing it with active voice makes it
a little clearer; sometimes much clearer.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Message #42 received at 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: rms <at> gnu.org
Cc: rpluim <at> gmail.com, 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32733: 26; (dired-x) `Shell Command Guessing' typo
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 10:09:49 +0300

> From: Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 23:36:34 -0400
> Cc: 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
>   > I guess thatʼs possible, but it would make that sentence be very
>   > different in tone from the surrounding text.
> 
> If the surrounding text uses passive voice, please try rewriting
> that text to use active voice.

FWIW, I didn't see any passive voice in surrounding text that would
make the change in this sentence stand out.

Message #45 received at 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: rpluim <at> gmail.com, 32733 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32733: 26; (dired-x) `Shell Command Guessing' typo
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:50:44 -0400

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > FWIW, I didn't see any passive voice in surrounding text that would
  > make the change in this sentence stand out.

That is good.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

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