GNU bug report logs - #32591
26.1; Ido-find-file does not intuitiely support tramp

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Joshua Branson <jbranso <at> fastmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 26.1; Ido-find-file does not intuitiely support tramp
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:30:54 -0400

I'm using Emacs version 26.1.  I've noticed that when I try to open a
remote file via ssh with tramp and ido-find-file, ido mode doesn't seem
to know that I want to use tramp, and instead tries to create a local
file.  This bug describes two problems:

1)  Default Emacs Tramp and Ido mode have non-intuitive ways of
searching for a remote file.

M-x ido-find-file 

"Find File: ~//ssh:joshua <at> localhost#2222"  TAB does not prompt me for a
password.  Instead I just see "[No Match]".

2)  Default Emacs Tramp and Ido mode have non-intuitive ways of opening
remote files.

M-x ido-find-file

"Find File: ~//ssh:joshua <at> localhost#2222:/home/joshua/hello"

Sometimes opens a local file instead of opening a remote file.  I can't
reliably reproduce this behavior though.

3)  Ido grays out the initial "~/" if one starts to type out tramp
syntax, but un-greys out those characters when it shouldn't.

Type the following in ido-find-file

"Find File:  ~//ssh:joshua <at> localhost#2222"

"~/" is greyed out.

Type a : to specify a path and watch the "~/" get un-greyed out.


You can probably stop reading this bug report now.  The following is
just a ramble of how I discovered these problems:

I have a virtual machine running at localhost port 2222.  I'm not sure
where the remote file is, but that's ok, emacs can open remote
directories with dired!  I'll just browse the remote directory! 

M-x ido-find-file

"Find File:  ~//ssh:joshua <at> localhost#2222"  TAB

The Initial characters "~/" are greyed out.  So Emacs is recognizing
that I want to browse a remote file.  Cool. I'm expecting that Emacs
will prompt me for a password, and then offer me suggestions of
remote directories at the remote HOME directory.  This doesn't happen.

Instead I see this error:

[No match]

No problem I'll try again.  C-g C-g

I try a couple of times I get can't get in.  I receive a couple of
connection refused errors.  Ok this is silly.  I decide to connect
in via a terminal.  "ssh ssh://joshua <at> localhost:2222".  This works.

So now I'm trying to figure out what Tramp is doing wrong...

The input lines initially shows "Find File: ~/"

So I start typing via "/"

Now I see "Find file: ~//"  AND the "~/" characters are grayed out.  So
far so good.

Then I type in the rest until Emacs shows this:

"Find File: ~//ssh:joshua <at> localhost#2222"

Again, the "~/" is greyed out, but when I typed a ":" to specify a path
to file the "~/" is not greyed out anymore and emacs thinks I'm trying
to open a local file.  If I keep typing, I'll get this:

"Find File: ~//ssh:joshua <at> localhost#2222:/home/joshua/hello"

pressing RET, makes Emacs open a local file.  Not what I intended.

This happened a few times, but when I tried to reproduce this behavior,
Emacs opened the remote file.  If I can reproduce this behavior again,
I'll try to.

So I tried again,

"Find File: ~//ssh:joshua <at> localhost#2222"   RET

The "~/" is greyed out.  So tramp will open the remote file right?

Wrong.  Instead I get this error:

"File not found and directory write protected."

I understand, I did not specify a path for tramp, but can't ido tell
tramp that to look into the remote HOME by default?

Thanks for listening



In GNU Emacs 26.1 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.30)
 of 2018-07-05 built on juergen
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12001000
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/home/joshua/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180604/ob-ebnf hides /usr/share/emacs/26.1/lisp/org/ob-ebnf
/home/joshua/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180604/ob-dot hides /usr/share/emacs/26.1/lisp/org/ob-dot
/home/joshua/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180604/ob-ditaa hides /usr/share/emacs/26.1/lisp/org/ob-ditaa
/home/joshua/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180604/ob-css hides /usr/share/emacs/26.1/lisp/org/ob-css
/home/joshua/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180604/ob-core hides /usr/share/emacs/26.1/lisp/org/ob-core
/home/joshua/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180604/ob-coq hides /usr/share/emacs/26.1/lisp/org/ob-coq
/home/joshua/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180604/ob-comint hides /usr/share/emacs/26.1/lisp/org/ob-comint
/home/joshua/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180604/ob-clojure hides /usr/share/emacs/26.1/lisp/org/ob-clojure
/home/joshua/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180604/ob-calc hides /usr/share/emacs/26.1/lisp/org/ob-calc
/home/joshua/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180604/ob-awk hides /usr/share/emacs/26.1/lisp/org/ob-awk
/home/joshua/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180604/ob-asymptote hides /usr/share/emacs/26.1/lisp/org/ob-asymptote
/home/joshua/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180604/ob-abc hides /usr/share/emacs/26.1/lisp/org/ob-abc
/home/joshua/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180604/ob-R hides /usr/share/emacs/26.1/lisp/org/ob-R
/home/joshua/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180604/ob-J hides /usr/share/emacs/26.1/lisp/org/ob-J
/home/joshua/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180604/ob-C hides /usr/share/emacs/26.1/lisp/org/ob-C

Features:
(shadow emacsbug magit-utils jka-compr python js sql view
all-the-icons-dired all-the-icons all-the-icons-faces data-material
data-weathericons data-octicons data-fileicons data-faicons
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cua-base misearch multi-isearch helm-x-files helm-for-files tabify imenu
woman helm-man helm-bookmark helm-adaptive bookmark helm-external
helm-net url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history
url-cookie url-domsuf tramp tramp-compat tramp-loaddefs trampver
ucs-normalize ffap ido url-util shr svg browse-url nnfolder mailalias
sort sh-script smie smiley gnus-cite mm-archive mail-extr gnus-async
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hex-util rainbow-delimiters diff-hl vc-dir vc vc-dispatcher hideshow
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company-yasnippet company-oddmuse company-keywords company-etags etags
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dns jabber-xml jabber-menu jabber-util cl network-stream nsm starttls
erc-list erc-menu erc-join erc-ring erc-networks erc-pcomplete erc-track
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init-html init-erc init-editing-utils server init-javascript init-lisp
evil-paredit paredit init-org org-id ob-sql ob-scheme geiser-impl
help-fns radix-tree geiser-custom geiser-base geiser ob-python ob-perl
ob-js ob-ledger ob-gnuplot ob-haskell ob-C cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess
cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs ob-calc
calc-store calc-trail calc-ext calc calc-loaddefs calc-macs ob-awk
init-gui-frames saveplace bbdb-mua bbdb-com crm bbdb-message bbdb
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gnus-cloud nnimap nnmail mail-source tls gnutls utf7 netrc parse-time
gnus-spec gnus-win nnoo gnus-int gnus-range message rmc puny dired-async
async dired-aux dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec epa derived epg
mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils
mailheader init-gnus-secret smtpmail sendmail gnus nnheader gnus-util
rmail rmail-loaddefs rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mail-utils mm-util
mail-prsvr wid-edit init-load-small-packages
smart-mode-line-powerline-theme powerline powerline-separators color
powerline-themes smart-mode-line rich-minority helm-flx fullframe
yasnippet-snippets yasnippet elec-pair use-package-bind-key which-key
autorevert filenotify init-check-network-connection init-autoinsert
init-evil-rebellion-clone init-evil evil-args evil-goggles pulse
evil-surround evil evil-integration undo-tree diff evil-maps
evil-commands reveal flyspell ispell evil-jumps evil-command-window
evil-types evil-search evil-ex shell evil-macros evil-repeat evil-states
evil-core evil-common windmove thingatpt rect evil-digraphs evil-vars
use-package-diminish org-element avl-tree generator org advice org-macro
org-footnote org-pcomplete pcomplete org-list org-faces org-entities
noutline outline org-version ob-emacs-lisp ob ob-tangle org-src ob-ref
ob-lob ob-table ob-keys ob-exp ob-comint comint ansi-color ring ob-core
ob-eval org-compat org-macs org-loaddefs format-spec find-func cal-menu
calendar cal-loaddefs bind-key easy-mmode diminish cl-extra help-mode
use-package-ensure use-package-core subr-x init-elpa init-utils
finder-inf edmacro kmacro rx info package easymenu epg-config
url-handlers url-parse auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs
eieio-loaddefs password-cache url-vars seq byte-opt gv bytecomp
byte-compile cconv cl-loaddefs cl-lib time-date mule-util tooltip eldoc
electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel term/x-win
x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe
tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mode lisp-mode
prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch timer select
scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core
term/tty-colors frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang
vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932
hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic
chinese composite charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook
help simple abbrev obarray minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs
button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5
base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable
backquote dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting
font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty
make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 1172655 117494)
 (symbols 48 68595 692)
 (miscs 40 4728 3774)
 (strings 32 236544 21531)
 (string-bytes 1 6988741)
 (vectors 16 121386)
 (vector-slots 8 2779732 94758)
 (floats 8 941 501)
 (intervals 56 47189 3777)
 (buffers 992 86))

Message #8 received at 32591 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Colin Baxter <m43cap <at> yandex.com>
To: Joshua Branson <jbranso <at> fastmail.com>
Cc: , 32591 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32591: 26.1; Ido-find-file does not intuitiely support tramp
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 15:26:08 +0100

>>>>> Joshua Branson <jbranso <at> fastmail.com> writes:

    > I'm using Emacs version 26.1.  I've noticed that when I try to
    > open a remote file via ssh with tramp and ido-find-file, ido mode
    > doesn't seem to know that I want to use tramp, and instead tries
    > to create a local file.  This bug describes two problems:

    > 1) Default Emacs Tramp and Ido mode have non-intuitive ways of
    > searching for a remote file.

    > M-x ido-find-file

    > "Find File: ~//ssh:joshua <at> localhost#2222" TAB does not prompt me
    > for a password.  Instead I just see "[No Match]".

    > 2) Default Emacs Tramp and Ido mode have non-intuitive ways of
    > opening remote files.

    > M-x ido-find-file

    > "Find File: ~//ssh:joshua <at> localhost#2222:/home/joshua/hello"

---- snip -----

Try with `/ssh:user <at> host:/path/to/file' not with `~/ssh: etc.'

Best wishes,
 
Colin Baxter
m43cap <at> yandex.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
GnuPG fingerprint: 68A8 799C 0230 16E7 BF68  2A27 BBFA 2492 91F5 41C8
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #11 received at 32591 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Joshua Branson <jbranso <at> fastmail.com>
Cc: 32591 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32591: 26.1; Ido-find-file does not intuitiely support tramp
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 17:19:11 +0200

Joshua Branson <jbranso <at> fastmail.com> writes:

Hi Joshua,

> 1)  Default Emacs Tramp and Ido mode have non-intuitive ways of
> searching for a remote file.
>
> M-x ido-find-file 
>
> "Find File: ~//ssh:joshua <at> localhost#2222"  TAB does not prompt me for a
> password.  Instead I just see "[No Match]".

There's no way to know that it is a remote file name. The second colon
is missing.

I bet, that typing "Find File: ~//ssh:joshua <at> localhost#2222:" gives you
what you want.

> 2)  Default Emacs Tramp and Ido mode have non-intuitive ways of opening
> remote files.
>
> M-x ido-find-file
>
> "Find File: ~//ssh:joshua <at> localhost#2222:/home/joshua/hello"
>
> Sometimes opens a local file instead of opening a remote file.  I can't
> reliably reproduce this behavior though.

This is more interesting. But I would need a reliable recipe to see the problem.

> 3)  Ido grays out the initial "~/" if one starts to type out tramp
> syntax, but un-greys out those characters when it shouldn't.
>
> Type the following in ido-find-file
>
> "Find File:  ~//ssh:joshua <at> localhost#2222"
>
> "~/" is greyed out.

Ido greys out "~/" because of the double slash. It has nothing to do with
a remote file name. Again, there is no remote file name, only a string
which might be a remote file name when it is complete.

> Type a : to specify a path and watch the "~/" get un-greyed out.

That seems to be an ido problem. With plain "M-x find-file" I cannot
reproduce it.

However, even if this grey out does not work as expected, I believe that
opening the file (after entering RET) still works as expected.

> Thanks for listening

Best regards, Michael.

Message #14 received at 32591 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Joshua Branson <jbranso <at> fastmail.com>
To: 32591 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32591: 26.1; Ido-find-file does not intuitiely support tramp
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:50:21 -0400

Colin Baxter <m43cap <at> yandex.com> writes:

>>>>>> Joshua Branson <jbranso <at> fastmail.com> writes:
>
>
> Try with `/ssh:user <at> host:/path/to/file' not with `~/ssh: etc.'

Thanks for the tip, and that would certainly help, but it's slightly
annoying to have to type out the file name, then realize that it the
filename starts with "~/".  To fix it then, I have to type

C-a C-d C-e 

I don't want to have to do this everytime I open a remote file.  I think
Emacs should be start enough to realize that I'm trying to open a remote
file.


>
> Best wishes,
>  
> Colin Baxter
> m43cap <at> yandex.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> GnuPG fingerprint: 68A8 799C 0230 16E7 BF68  2A27 BBFA 2492 91F5 41C8
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #17 received at 32591 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: 32591 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Joshua Branson <jbranso <at> fastmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#32591: 26.1; Ido-find-file does not intuitiely support tramp
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 15:25:26 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:

> Ido greys out "~/" because of the double slash. It has nothing to do with
> a remote file name. Again, there is no remote file name, only a string
> which might be a remote file name when it is complete.
>
>> Type a : to specify a path and watch the "~/" get un-greyed out.
>
> That seems to be an ido problem. With plain "M-x find-file" I cannot
> reproduce it.
>
> However, even if this grey out does not work as expected, I believe that
> opening the file (after entering RET) still works as expected.

Let's see...  I `C-x C-f' while in a Tramp-ey buffer:

[Message part 2 (image/png, inline)]

[Message part 3 (text/plain, inline)]

Then type ~/.emacs:

[Message part 4 (image/png, inline)]

[Message part 5 (text/plain, inline)]

So the greyed-out parts here seem to say that we're going to get
~/.emacs on the remote host...  and hitting RET does indeed give me
that.

To get the ~/.emacs on the local machine, I have to delete everything in
the minibuffer and type ~/.emacs.

I've been tripped up by this before, because I'm so used to just typing
`C-x C-f ~/.emacs RET' without even looking (to get to my local .emacs
file).  But I think the current behaviour is the intended one, really --
it's consistent, powerful and makes sense.

So I'm closing this bug report -- I think this is working as intended.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #22 received at 32591 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 32591 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>,
 Joshua Branson <jbranso <at> fastmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#32591: 26.1; Ido-find-file does not intuitiely support tramp
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 16:15:59 +0200

On Aug 12 2021, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> To get the ~/.emacs on the local machine, I have to delete everything in
> the minibuffer and type ~/.emacs.

Or enter a slash before the tilde.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

Message #25 received at 32591 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 32591 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Joshua Branson <jbranso <at> fastmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#32591: 26.1; Ido-find-file does not intuitiely support tramp
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 16:27:02 +0200

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> So the greyed-out parts here seem to say that we're going to get
> ~/.emacs on the remote host...  and hitting RET does indeed give me
> that.
>
> To get the ~/.emacs on the local machine, I have to delete everything in
> the minibuffer and type ~/.emacs.

No. Three slashes grey out everything.

> I've been tripped up by this before, because I'm so used to just typing
> `C-x C-f ~/.emacs RET' without even looking (to get to my local .emacs
> file).  But I think the current behaviour is the intended one, really --
> it's consistent, powerful and makes sense.

My memory muscle starts *always* to type three slashes, before I type a
local file name. When your muscle is trained, it is easy to type
`C-x C-f ///~/.emacs RET', even w/o thinking about. Whether you use ido,
or not.

Best regards, Michael.

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