From unknown Sat Sep 06 14:24:19 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#32533: my documentation improvement proposals are in most cases not answered Resent-From: kalle Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 14:34:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 32533 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 32533@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.15352939981982 (code B ref -1); Sun, 26 Aug 2018 14:34:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Aug 2018 14:33:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33205 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ftw6Q-0000Vu-6M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:33:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44901) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ftw6P-0000Vh-17 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:33:17 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ftw6I-00081g-06 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:33:11 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,DATE_IN_PAST_12_24, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:49548) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ftw6H-000800-18 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:33:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37641) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ftw6G-0005sh-0d for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:33:08 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ftw6C-0007tF-5N for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:33:07 -0400 Received: from mail.netzguerilla.net ([217.11.57.120]:33059) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ftw69-0007oH-W8 for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:33:02 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netzguerilla.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F5B100019 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 16:33:00 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at netzguerilla.net Received: from mail.netzguerilla.net ([IPv6:2a00:1828:2000:612::25]) by localhost (sal.netzguerilla.net [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xZYC0pvL4z1U for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 16:32:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [IPv6:2003:dd:ff24:7901:70e0:ee98:55d6:7af] (p200300DDFF24790170E0EE9855D607AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [IPv6:2003:dd:ff24:7901:70e0:ee98:55d6:7af]) by mail.netzguerilla.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22A2F100012 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 16:32:59 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=projektwerkstatt.de; s=fckp; t=1535293979; bh=mqh+kQi7tMgQp1uIBlvGV0fki8FCcnmelYaqneXt8gE=; h=From:Subject:To:Date:From; b=aL/edC52icHzvubFmxNVGjMt0IQKqGYuwhYfYZvmoT7042CZHPwBITHGUHuW2l5C8 7oznH/3klACmRhrbd/yrMQFFCOzYAwcXZlC6uBL1fQ3aomIiulk9GlGaKTVS++l/yD THxxh++6sdieuJ3T6G+fGPW+e4hDLtDoXai8XTQ4hyLLpehdiHhzcsTLCVwaGDQ/Eg +yavowPmHz+GDDmUpZZ5SZwHGdtedCyFNyxMnKQJSRdoEvyEFllrCHf+DnZD/s/Tmy xtpv1DmuBn65B+B1T4zYAKNSrEu433lG2FwecO7BeLW51BkrhslQ9+Lj24IyfUsQBj yGLdETKXZZyrg== From: kalle Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 20:46:47 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.2 (-----) hello, I mostly read info- and man-documentation of elementary GNU-programs and here and then send a bug-report on this documentation, if I consider it bad or improvable. I'm especially interested in making documentation newbie-friendlier in a way, that concepts written about are referenced, and I would also like to see language usage becoming easier (maybe in the direction of 'simple english'), but I didn't do anything on the latter yet. Looking at my bug-reports on coreutils' bug-list (https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?which=submitter&data=kalle%40projektwerkstatt.de) , I see that from 7 reports i sent, 3 didn't get any answer (29316,32250,32464), two got closed by padraig just after answering my mail (29315,31712), such that I couldn't react appropriately,one was discussed and rejected, where I had the impression, that there was no real will to make improvement (29069). And one (27136) was reacted to, but without having found a real solution. While I was often really motivated to help improving free software, I sometimes think now that my work is not considered useful and this tends to diminish my motivation sometimes. greetings, kalle From unknown Sat Sep 06 14:24:19 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: kalle Subject: bug#32533: closed (Re: bug#32533: my documentation improvement proposals are in most cases not answered) Message-ID: References: <1d98d329-ad96-c5c5-e6a6-2c6337f8003d@gmail.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 32533 X-Gnu-PR-Package: coreutils Reply-To: 32533@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 01:38:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1535333882-32276-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1535333882-32276-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #32533: my documentation improvement proposals are in most cases not answer= ed which was filed against the coreutils package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 32533@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 32533: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D32533 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1535333882-32276-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 32533-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Aug 2018 01:37:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33503 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fu6So-0008Mz-1o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 21:37:06 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f195.google.com ([209.85.210.195]:41790) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fu6Sm-0008MW-UQ for 32533-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 21:37:05 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f195.google.com with SMTP id h79-v6so6056658pfk.8 for <32533-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 18:37:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=H0fJK4k8vQNGqb2KhoxGwxKi1y9dgauFeDCBndoxuFs=; b=cFIYS5tu7YlU8xiEDpU8+hkOMETx04cL+tr4bbprOR2Om6R0WRYqaelyfWw+hbCrJF zegbuDBOSWfpB6eDypXEOepgr9E4qxoZ2V6Hpf2G0ps9cmo4/dtOxFhLLhcDGZgQ8lKr Ad2J5oTLpeWt127mgjLwtC7E3VVF033EQbN4JddLQEgOjjgI+zODJIr3RWK5AhYHdWb3 uQ3KtPEGBxDUPl0qwpnYXitWVIj0bUwcKtFit4buobpoMOFaMZ8jkxYl4iXyzVA9t0i7 o0DGDaMb/xJ3630iB6FVvLzIFeQmCXlNn5XvnciaCNkK5wALVq5uhvXkWLqPsoxJ75Pv eLwg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=H0fJK4k8vQNGqb2KhoxGwxKi1y9dgauFeDCBndoxuFs=; b=i86BVZt+k81chNG0Nz8jHqAsiu3myE+u7n68wcJUr/kJjx1V6q/8Dsluo6EUi5j/Tk Dc9RPlIEfTiIeOseWDIgjT4XZpzjY1f9uzQaYx2LLiEPt+ACMpQtct6qyFli1RJngQRH IJIkMz5+vB/zx88PbfhtwbBKpLKQCvkTPW86iK2wPDK0iRjKer3o2hXkyfudf+LPzmza DnDhjFkX5EvIJgo2J3lDJ+/2b2pzpIp+eeg4Mc+YaCxf0O4zS2MAlTt/BA7hQz6UEJ2r Wg6YXFwM6pF8//zuznT4y7/DYimQMYRRYpPDFzXF+zGaX1KOLwj0oTdlbKUHzwYYsjFS ofiA== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51BaEFpgNyl72ZMKeTI5HwlxQKCi+H0gd565rLM7s7t4hSS9EYPr a428yIRAGm+oCb3VEqj45uQjEvO9 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdaoP45kaNWUDVFMDqhuLu8xutfKq6xFSyVFgnpl6bO2D8UypgsIgixc+rgMZYO74GZON9iG4Q== X-Received: by 2002:a63:2d05:: with SMTP id t5-v6mr10235473pgt.403.1535333818573; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 18:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tomato.housegordon.com (moose.housegordon.com. [184.68.105.38]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id h82-v6sm32019646pfa.173.2018.08.26.18.36.56 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 26 Aug 2018 18:36:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#32533: my documentation improvement proposals are in most cases not answered To: kalle , 32533-done@debbugs.gnu.org References: From: Assaf Gordon Message-ID: <1d98d329-ad96-c5c5-e6a6-2c6337f8003d@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 19:36:56 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32533-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, On 25/08/18 12:46 PM, kalle wrote: > I mostly read info- and man-documentation of elementary GNU-programs > and here and then send a bug-report on this documentation, if I > consider it bad or improvable. Thank you for sending those - we do appreciate and suggestions and contributions, even if it takes time to respond to them. > While I was often really motivated to help improving free software, > I sometimes think now that my work is not considered useful and this > tends to diminish my motivation sometimes. > It can certainly be frustrating when topics seem to linger on or "fall between the cracks". But please remember that GNU coreutils maintainers are volunteers, and work is done on "best effort" cases, often depending on priority (e.g. critical bug vs a minor documentation change), available time, and readiness of changes (e.g. if a patch is provided). > Looking at my bug-reports on coreutils' bug-list > (https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?which=submitter&data=kalle%40projektwerkstatt.de) > > I see that from 7 reports i sent, 3 didn't get any answer > (29316,32250,32464), two got closed by padraig just after answering > my mail (29315,31712), such that I couldn't react appropriately,one > was discussed and rejected, where I had the impression, that there > was no real will to make improvement (29069). And one (27136) was > reacted to, but without having found a real solution. > Here are some concrete suggestions to help facilitate faster and more effective process: 1. In the case of https://bugs.gnu.org/27136 - There was a clear reply from Pádraig, followed by further explanation by Paul: It is a low-priority issue that is not specific to 'cat'. Therefore, if you want to suggest a specific word change, please do so by sending a concrete patch. Being a low-priority issue, other coreutils maintainers have not yet shown interest in investing time to change the documentation. This will be a recurring theme: Sending a concrete patch makes it much easier for maintainers to incorporate changes. If you want to promote documentation changes in an effective way, please do send patches with specific word changes. 2. In the case of https://bugs.gnu.org/29316 , https://bugs.gnu.org/32250 , https://bugs.gnu.org/32464 , It is indeed not very welcoming not to get any responses - we should always strive to do better. However, the response to all three is similar to the previous one: As general suggestions go, these are likely good suggestions. But they are low-priority and making them into concrete changes require investing time that currently maintainers do not have. If you want to promote any of the above, please do prepare a patch with the word changes you suggest. 3. In the case of https://bugs.gnu.org/29315 , A fix was committed to the code at https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/commit/?id=f17c1df39 , and other comments have been answers in the email - which is why the bug report was marked as "done". You are still able to reply and add information to the bug (and you did). 4. In the case of https://bugs.gnu.org/31712 , I suspect that it was simply a typo, instead of referring to "-a" it should have been "-p" (same as "--preserve"), which is mentioned in the documentation. You'd like needed to write: cp --attributes-only --preserve=timestamp FILE OTHERFILE ==== If you'd like to send patches, a good starting point are these two documents: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/HACKING http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/README-hacking I'm marking this item as "done", since it is not a bug by itself. Discussion can continue by replying to this thread. regards, - asssaf ------------=_1535333882-32276-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Aug 2018 14:33:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33205 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ftw6Q-0000Vu-6M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:33:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44901) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ftw6P-0000Vh-17 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:33:17 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ftw6I-00081g-06 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:33:11 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,DATE_IN_PAST_12_24, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:49548) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ftw6H-000800-18 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:33:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37641) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ftw6G-0005sh-0d for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:33:08 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ftw6C-0007tF-5N for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:33:07 -0400 Received: from mail.netzguerilla.net ([217.11.57.120]:33059) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ftw69-0007oH-W8 for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:33:02 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netzguerilla.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F5B100019 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 16:33:00 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at netzguerilla.net Received: from mail.netzguerilla.net ([IPv6:2a00:1828:2000:612::25]) by localhost (sal.netzguerilla.net [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xZYC0pvL4z1U for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 16:32:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [IPv6:2003:dd:ff24:7901:70e0:ee98:55d6:7af] (p200300DDFF24790170E0EE9855D607AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [IPv6:2003:dd:ff24:7901:70e0:ee98:55d6:7af]) by mail.netzguerilla.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22A2F100012 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 16:32:59 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=projektwerkstatt.de; s=fckp; t=1535293979; bh=mqh+kQi7tMgQp1uIBlvGV0fki8FCcnmelYaqneXt8gE=; h=From:Subject:To:Date:From; b=aL/edC52icHzvubFmxNVGjMt0IQKqGYuwhYfYZvmoT7042CZHPwBITHGUHuW2l5C8 7oznH/3klACmRhrbd/yrMQFFCOzYAwcXZlC6uBL1fQ3aomIiulk9GlGaKTVS++l/yD THxxh++6sdieuJ3T6G+fGPW+e4hDLtDoXai8XTQ4hyLLpehdiHhzcsTLCVwaGDQ/Eg +yavowPmHz+GDDmUpZZ5SZwHGdtedCyFNyxMnKQJSRdoEvyEFllrCHf+DnZD/s/Tmy xtpv1DmuBn65B+B1T4zYAKNSrEu433lG2FwecO7BeLW51BkrhslQ9+Lj24IyfUsQBj yGLdETKXZZyrg== From: kalle Subject: my documentation improvement proposals are in most cases not answered To: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 20:46:47 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.2 (-----) hello, I mostly read info- and man-documentation of elementary GNU-programs and here and then send a bug-report on this documentation, if I consider it bad or improvable. I'm especially interested in making documentation newbie-friendlier in a way, that concepts written about are referenced, and I would also like to see language usage becoming easier (maybe in the direction of 'simple english'), but I didn't do anything on the latter yet. Looking at my bug-reports on coreutils' bug-list (https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?which=submitter&data=kalle%40projektwerkstatt.de) , I see that from 7 reports i sent, 3 didn't get any answer (29316,32250,32464), two got closed by padraig just after answering my mail (29315,31712), such that I couldn't react appropriately,one was discussed and rejected, where I had the impression, that there was no real will to make improvement (29069). And one (27136) was reacted to, but without having found a real solution. While I was often really motivated to help improving free software, I sometimes think now that my work is not considered useful and this tends to diminish my motivation sometimes. greetings, kalle ------------=_1535333882-32276-1--