From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 13 11:11:33 2018 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2018 15:11:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59101 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fdzjJ-0006ip-2V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 11:11:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53114) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fdzjH-0006ib-KR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 11:11:32 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fdzjB-0004az-4v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 11:11:26 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:36148) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fdzjB-0004av-1G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 11:11:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44072) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fdzj9-0001WJ-Kw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 11:11:24 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fdzj6-0004WM-BZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 11:11:23 -0400 Received: from sonic310-13.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com ([77.238.177.34]:33529) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fdzj6-0004UR-0l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 11:11:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.de; s=s2048; t=1531494678; bh=yONUYqzWbc6LYmX5B2uQ3HOcGGKYJyQZwKI6qBlWYDk=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:References:From:Subject; b=rDaRL3Z79x0ojUvXBjtJKmMtQoQDz2aWo0KVXVXz808xrU11P1VrJIeEiByPj5X8WG/BCxnTsqSL7gsTIEiy5GDnDYRZb4HPd4OZyHyEgFkIzVvzmkluWCkyT4sAsLepFx3jM7bl53easQAhJNfEAtFk5MPNZ9hpNnZVFyzDXmjcaLhEVrvZIspSdDtgu5GfGq34oYoHOiQ50C6taMs+ii5kENF4x4cjT12AAK/f8MXuw7tyJIRuz9dl6RYNIGucFQfvAjK7jO7S4BxYH+mxF+7wGcegjwVIWpPp9cHtiFS0s7BkA4PnPHrJRWQDXHNpHpZmo3VQLZvsGuX7VYITZg== X-YMail-OSG: ZSUKIesVM1lE66DNlsvJCMerwb7xl.4b_7xsGKWoi1z_tylPslcKI8oOVtT5Q.4 I3m.KZwCO__TRlF3vMpSqsMAzx3ufVlTz3E_pa.ZZHwJhHvm7HbwKpwIbejx_7IJ5fScx0Y3AfQu gLRING9t84y5ycyu_Q6rPEVaGLt_1TffVi7YH5H6xIWa90OsLxRCWizzOmuMSbBhbmP5Y_UF8kL9 N1.SU.3WO2U5DkoVEXmuUQ5pD5XWGr8tKCBXMkBHqQpyCwuSW1Ce2aV4TC8MfDfrS7U3aj.wU6kP tTr4YrcwbQtXttxykPQKlg_nzJ3F5yLvq.RRkgQRW4jTfFAAUIX.v2sIsGJkbl.L6M_dh38W.Cik sk._OyA5W.XeTmwQd47Hi2bAkMKefJQpPusbYKbKlZEpbI3s1XDQD6O4iVBGMpYjSMBoMItZ7WsL OPsjsnLufXiKUzHzJkbR4br9m.3vlD5FRHjt7vueCQIoNh7UvI7vsafGbJbuzc2AWSO4tSQ87x_I 1lDVCfg0Ubp5YtEl.zMq75YtYemRiGz4H9aGTDM54GcwcVcUYLiPRf7Qnd0.3lQ.QUmXUevgoF9O 9Law5xiKvoLVR1XoZhwPeXqUPTn0VHJGabYT8tVz0mCm5vUkLDA5VYgFne7t9OArq7LWToY0BIAA N8ep0qtYhnhSjxZNzeTU4O.EdhEkaJuVY9VswcWNIcVRMbGSd2yozrh3t1IeHkpa65FWsDbnAcR. rNyEUAPK04KV1eMVbwVTltrWbsDj1YlDWkaBaNyG6Q8ipW.xFeIFVTshDrMsWC6fz9NtsRvxp_L6 t2nCDBRVOf.k9WTEzL8QtIXmJPVqyhyK90HrWlfqW0oQwAKwOdLptFsYw3_1jWf8y1strzuh1UT9 zsAyMMCcQbVQQkQO7r0.q.Oc3XOlwuVY1yMFFEZ.JU8sjhixoLfn9mRKqNGPXgBWnMJENGGBPg1t iMoPYIrvC_beIcIN0A0X7WsGJUELbgYJdrG8S4li_6e2HSGHYvEtPsBT_fBHlGQVyV65rvXf3bfy 0bYwhDnCZT_W_j47MKiJUNWP4JA-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic310.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 15:11:18 +0000 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 15:11:13 +0000 (UTC) From: "R. Diez" To: "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Message-ID: <745366070.6138533.1531494673065@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: WG: 26.1; Problems with flyspell-region MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <745366070.6138533.1531494673065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.12062 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:61.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/61.0 Content-Length: 2433 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: "R. Diez" Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.4 (-----) I mentioned some problems with flyspell-region on the help-gnu-emacs mailing list here: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2018-07/msg00100.html Issues are: Issue 1) The spell check is performed just once, and is not updated as I type inside that region. This is what I wrote on the mailing list: "If I mark a region (click on the beginning, hold shift, move to the end), and then run flyspell-region, the region gets spell-checked, and all the dictionary misses are underlined in red, as expected. But then, if I fix the words, the spelling marking (the red underlining) is not removed. It looks like Flyspell is not 'live' anymore within that region. The "overlay" is left behind as static font faces." I do not want to activate Flyspell for the whole buffer, because that would lead to too much red underlining. If I just wanted a single-shot, I would use ispell-region instead. If this cannot be fixed, the current behaviour should be documented. Issue 2) There is no easy way to remove the red underlining (overlays) left behind by flyspell-region. This is what I wrote on the mailing list: "Often I get too many dictionary misses (too much red underlining). Or I just do not want to be distracted anymore. That is the reason why I want to be able to turn spell-checking on and off on demand on a particular region. And, when I want it off, I want to remove the "overlays" from that region. Why should they remain? At the moment, there is no direct way to do that." I also wrote: "After some searching, I found out about flyspell-delete-all-overlays and flyspell-delete-region-overlays, but alas, they are not marked as 'interactive'. I wonder how Flyspell thinks users should remove those marks (how to end the flyspell-region command)." Issue 3) Disabling flyspell-persistent-highlight renders flyspell-region useless. Contrary to some of the answers in the mailing list, that combination does not work at all. This is what I am seeing: "What I mean is that, if you turn flyspell-persistent-highlight off, then flyspell-region does nothing other than consume CPU cycles. The red underlining for dictionary misses does not show up at all." Again, I do not want to turn on Flyspell for the whole buffer. If flyspell-region is supposed to work only when the Flyspell Mode is active, it should check, and error if it is not active. But that kind of defeats the purpose of having a flyspell-region. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 13 15:43:56 2018 Received: (at 32142) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2018 19:43:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59265 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fe3yu-0004ol-Iv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 15:43:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40195) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fe3yt-0004oY-3h for 32142@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 15:43:55 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fe3yk-0005h2-Pq for 32142@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 15:43:49 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:54751) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fe3yk-0005gg-Kb; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 15:43:46 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4158 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fe3yk-00022X-2V; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 15:43:46 -0400 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 22:43:48 +0300 Message-Id: <83zhyuc45n.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "R. Diez" In-reply-to: <745366070.6138533.1531494673065@mail.yahoo.com> (rdiezmail-emacs@yahoo.de) Subject: Re: bug#32142: WG: 26.1; Problems with flyspell-region References: <745366070.6138533.1531494673065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <745366070.6138533.1531494673065@mail.yahoo.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32142 Cc: 32142@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 15:11:13 +0000 (UTC) > From: "R. Diez" > > > I mentioned some problems with flyspell-region on the help-gnu-emacs mailing list here: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2018-07/msg00100.html And I replied to some of them. > Issue 1) The spell check is performed just once, and is not updated as I type inside that region. This is what I wrote on the mailing list: > > > "If I mark a region (click on the beginning, hold shift, move to the end), and then run flyspell-region, the region gets spell-checked, and all the dictionary misses are underlined in red, as expected. But then, if I fix the words, the spelling marking (the red underlining) is not removed. It looks like Flyspell is not 'live' anymore within that region. The "overlay" is left behind as static font faces." You need to turn on flyspell-mode if you want the misspelled words to be unhighlighted when you fix them. > I do not want to activate Flyspell for the whole buffer, because that would lead to too much red underlining. > > If I just wanted a single-shot, I would use ispell-region instead. We don't have a spell-checking feature that watches correction of misspelled words without turning on flyspell-mode. You could manually turn on flyspell-mode when you correct the misspelled words, then turn it back off when you are done with correcting and want to continue to type new text. And yes, ispell-region is better suited to your workflow, if I understand it correctly. > Issue 2) There is no easy way to remove the red underlining (overlays) left behind by flyspell-region. See above. You can also toggle flyspell-mode. > Issue 3) Disabling flyspell-persistent-highlight renders flyspell-region useless. > > Contrary to some of the answers in the mailing list, that combination does not work at all. This is what I am seeing: > > "What I mean is that, if you turn flyspell-persistent-highlight off, then flyspell-region does nothing other than consume CPU cycles. The red underlining for dictionary misses does not show up at all." That description is inaccurate. The misspelled words _are_ highlighted, but then the highlight is removed when cursor moves to the next word, per the intended effect of flyspell-persistent-highlight being nil. > Again, I do not want to turn on Flyspell for the whole buffer. If flyspell-region is supposed to work only when the Flyspell Mode is active, it should check, and error if it is not active. But that kind of defeats the purpose of having a flyspell-region. The command flyspell-region is part of Flyspell mode, and is designed to work in a buffer where flyspell-mode is turned on. Its intended use is to spell-check a region that you didn't type, as if you did type it. If you want to spell-check a region without turning on flyspell-mode, I suggest to use ispell-region instead. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 13 16:23:09 2018 Received: (at 32142) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2018 20:23:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59286 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fe4ar-0005na-3b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 16:23:09 -0400 Received: from sonic311-31.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com ([77.238.176.163]:33072) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fe4aq-0005nK-AX for 32142@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 16:23:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.de; s=s2048; t=1531513381; bh=gqPf9N+bOZGaL+IRFalmUret9z0r7e55NizuU4HozzU=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=o8PFny5npjjskvCtsn6N6YvHlzg9p4aOhSDxviWGnq+O/uyQY9jzYQl8wXTWzS6TNp4B906lqEVhJO+JgpyobzCTsc0HR9AyHOTWcT/IHBm2IxlTWonb8ef+IQKlekujl+3ZvrIR4E+RkYzawv+YBrhgFMlZjygSQzeV5XZuiXbTuLVTdkpXQV/vZXIEDGrgkQ3ZJt3yBFEMtPtr/YG9Niw43C4oJ8rmGACBqXx/2VhVCg5n3esuNGFUglYmaiLTHkuUvKYLt8LGDDEstx5gVvnn14SsYdOEqQvHE2j/7+Q9BAF5t5V4+I5rAeqTEXYnBnPMISsTfKDSs1u43ZkOfg== X-YMail-OSG: rzN4nZYVM1mdIYxpG7oLw1orB57DqxMBa6IOvPVtcafMXy6ExkxhLFCBpdbqUVL 9R8E54Zsbv79PjtDGysdJy0YULaEnLluLaZ7wOQeFAqSJv56XvPRUSHkRneNshgY83e1e2Rpt7OR ldXK90F4rGBBPDS52dXormRTWAPiHXFXKXPvCGSu_U6TPFwoiZRPd3tTgDuWSQc6bsb0k8sb8PgZ MokFTVoooOTNmf4GvBSwz2YLqZP26RKnwBnZPxvuW3YzsQvnfxCSmiMcRTT28Pbyrglap5OR5UC9 7QnpcLc56RvPEgIYToFZrRkbvX2agHwJeAMuyyv5xp0l8y4JMVXIorNrsElg3wRIaJd3LX5URz2e 7gWCGI_nYddtE70LLzsHro7TndYsTqa6E_pCERTf7Je4wzhAhRLdhKPNYh4CySk24TEZYOV9WUqj e34hUAVG4yg4OiJNusaGds5JYaz.zeD49DKPIOjiQwcWoPMRURG6zYkE980RWDjYWKBduHSLf5W0 6HYjfOaKMEvOTzecoHe9cECkSL3TvE4QTa6wQvR8QREgPKUu0kMJa95uTWT1103FWCOarRAMoiFO FmE9HWwoYh8NSWstGSc8OY25HR5UYmIjFbL8vGOQM9Q_lTwl1SGNpvv_ZhZkh3khtYSnmc0BfDtb W_uSRs4MdAWcwpNahvgTB5xvDp9YUPqu7xRrEA2.YgsR1kZuddE1ulqK_Hudg73Wg0XIxqgx36mv ggQJkD4rpIwCEa5eXd2jh0yZV6eVuXqczOTAID6YDwGkLHuEOzHk2EmJEcrCSi68dRtoBKubXhCR fCqJtz8AnHFgxre8Dtu_l4M9PC13L.9u_NTp7OgSjypeAJe2FwWQ10ySljZ7v6L.lhSikC7cTb3t szE8qGw6VRZy26mAl3ZPT_ArB4GmQCr_B2kwL1CAHz0QH9e2_Tk9AZV99jBp_zJ1a8llrn3IaHKL 0NJbCVYl_GvtW4tnRS8lU.tsffQ-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic311.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 13 Jul 2018 20:23:01 +0000 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 20:22:59 +0000 (UTC) From: "R. Diez" To: Eli Zaretskii Message-ID: <1411313637.6317903.1531513379661@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <83zhyuc45n.fsf@gnu.org> References: <745366070.6138533.1531494673065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <745366070.6138533.1531494673065@mail.yahoo.com> <83zhyuc45n.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: Re: bug#32142: WG: 26.1; Problems with flyspell-region MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.12062 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:61.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/61.0 Content-Length: 1441 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32142 Cc: "32142@debbugs.gnu.org" <32142@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: "R. Diez" Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > That description is inaccurate. The misspelled words _are_ > highlighted, but then the highlight is removed when > cursor moves to the next word, per the intended effect of > flyspell-persistent-highlight being nil. Once more, that is only the case if flyspell-mode is on. If flyspell-mode is off, and flyspell-persistent-highlight is also off, CPU usage goes up for a short time, and nothing gets marked. That is weird. > We don't have a spell-checking feature that watches correction of > misspelled words without turning on flyspell-mode. OK, I gather from your comments that flyspell-region is designed to work with flyspell-mode turned on. And that you are unable or unwilling to change that. That limitation is not obvious. In fact, I would argue that users would expect exactly the opposite from flyspell-region. I request that flyspell-region documents this fact, and/or checks whether flyspell-mode is off and/or flyspell-persistent-highlight is off. That would make it clear where the limitations of Flyspell are, and avoid wasting time when it does not work as one probably expects. Because, as I mentioned, flyspell-region actually makes little sense if you need to have flyspell-mode turned on. ispell-region seems to be no good substitute for what flyspell-region should actually do. After running ispell-region, you cannot move the cursor freely around and comfortably correct words. It is very awkward to use. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 14 03:45:47 2018 Received: (at 32142) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jul 2018 07:45:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59469 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1feFFS-0005EN-W1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 03:45:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57999) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1feFFR-0005E9-3j for 32142@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 03:45:45 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1feFFI-0001jK-De for 32142@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 03:45:39 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:39798) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1feFFI-0001jE-8p; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 03:45:36 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4633 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1feFFH-0002DT-Lf; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 03:45:36 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2018 10:45:39 +0300 Message-Id: <83lgaeb6qk.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "R. Diez" In-reply-to: <1411313637.6317903.1531513379661@mail.yahoo.com> (rdiezmail-emacs@yahoo.de) Subject: Re: bug#32142: WG: 26.1; Problems with flyspell-region References: <745366070.6138533.1531494673065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <745366070.6138533.1531494673065@mail.yahoo.com> <83zhyuc45n.fsf@gnu.org> <1411313637.6317903.1531513379661@mail.yahoo.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32142 Cc: 32142@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 20:22:59 +0000 (UTC) > From: "R. Diez" > Cc: "32142@debbugs.gnu.org" <32142@debbugs.gnu.org> > > > That description is inaccurate. The misspelled words _are_ > > highlighted, but then the highlight is removed when > > cursor moves to the next word, per the intended effect of > > flyspell-persistent-highlight being nil. > Once more, that is only the case if flyspell-mode is on. If flyspell-mode is off, and flyspell-persistent-highlight is also off, CPU usage goes up for a short time, and nothing gets marked. That is weird. I think the difference in what we see is related to the size of the region. See the variable 'flyspell-large-region'. > > We don't have a spell-checking feature that watches correction of > > misspelled words without turning on flyspell-mode. > > OK, I gather from your comments that flyspell-region is designed to work with flyspell-mode turned on. And that you are unable or unwilling to change that. That limitation is not obvious. In fact, I would argue that users would expect exactly the opposite from flyspell-region. > > > I request that flyspell-region documents this fact, and/or checks whether flyspell-mode is off and/or flyspell-persistent-highlight is off. I added the caveats to the doc strings of the relevant functions and variables. I object to the "unable or unwilling" part of your complaint. I was just stating the fact that the feature you expected was missing from Emacs, because no one designed and coded it. There's no need to hint on my (non-existent) personal motives and abilities in this matter. This is a volunteer project, and thus will alone is not enough to make things happen. I did my share of minor changes and fixes in flyspell.el, but I'm by no means the only one who is responsible for what happens there. > That would make it clear where the limitations of Flyspell are, and avoid wasting time when it does not work as one probably expects. Because, as I mentioned, > flyspell-region actually makes little sense if you need to have flyspell-mode turned on. FWIW, it makes a lot of sense to me: Flyspell mode is a coherent set of features that are supposed to be used as a whole. I am actually quite surprised that someone could expect flyspell-region to work outside of the mode. Anyway, this is now stated explicitly in the doc string. > ispell-region seems to be no good substitute for what flyspell-region should actually do. After running ispell-region, you cannot move the cursor freely around and comfortably correct words. It is very awkward to use. ??? Did you read the help provided by ispell-region? You could either: . type 'X' to exit spell-check temporarily, correct the word at point, then type 'C-u M-$' to resume spell-checking (the latter command is shown in the echo area when you type 'X'); or . enter recursive-edit with 'C-r', edit the text as you wish, then exit recursive-edit with 'C-M-c' (again, the echo area shows the command to exit when you type 'C-r') and continue spell-checking; or . type 'r' which will allow you to replace the misspelled word with the text you type in the minibuffer; or . type 'R', which works like 'r', but also lets you replace all the other words in the buffer like the one replaced here. These commands (and others) are listed if you type '?' and in more detail by 'C-h f ispell-help', which is mentioned in the text shown by '?'. IME, ispell-region is a very convenient feature for spell-checking large regions of text, much more convenient than flyspell-region. YMMV, of course. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 14 11:15:22 2018 Received: (at 32142) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jul 2018 15:15:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60208 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1feMGY-0003Bq-K3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:15:22 -0400 Received: from sonic304-22.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com ([77.238.179.147]:41061) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1feMGX-0003Bd-6N for 32142@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:15:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.de; s=s2048; t=1531581315; bh=B9HM/MvE6LCsLuzqVCu6qXpM3IPOkAf7Oo2i0n1Ucd8=; h=From:Subject:To:Cc:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=n42XwsfOU5Dsiw+zVvmoznNEL+uyQUmsJwxgmDxQG4bwYUwcKbppvWhlG7cvH85Po+vOKlSQTdigHM54FwFLGCKluczrBtH4uhCUxMnsx8DtYOkcF0hkFKmGPnX/PayBNpCKhiRUptc9pZeg8S1cjvkG23m4SUvlAWPczdHxSOGbVwuXJ1Ypy+RTBJKv36nnOf09kgC9SDM9+mjBr1oeLest4ISUCHuMT7ri3iqpTTkiVKz+vNyVVtu1uwacguNtpAF3TMmoYSroz27i4kcFrqaB3kNjs5du0tcGEBbqplMx5SQZD8nBpZGhlCdsENsuyz7Jipbkqux1mMvsvUoJYQ== X-YMail-OSG: KrD5SIEVM1mlUQApWOJFYMYN3ip.2dNn3whWYLC9JKNylPrdnwhgQgMEuKx1XWN VkRt.M.mTbRspgTwrn6h_KU7aDvrsNf.1ZGI6Rd25xKKz0jX2hCRy6KZV68EuXOnpxucd.J5qZ0G TDtF2yq.FCSf92UdVJXtUi1PzBhyDENCoFnyQYLhnGJOxxEoSAex2qjkphS2hmccgEqCqE7kiRe0 ugP9iOYMg62c1IPmR4zFCZ09Hskn50U2x.R6LCoo.QvOc61HOmQMqUoEYMu1Zz3HyZnGkgpf8V9k X1D1tux57934SiNe9ILqO7mO8gWio5qSYlJieam0xmB3bj4OKUilfbdz2zPXfnz7NyiFSiy5GNrB i0FCHzQ2yoyXsAB6N1cmVBnKRsJXs4NYymiO9f6qmMbydMOhj6CmARBT0_Ih4h0S3nTuieoM42wi Ywbfbg7FuKlVPkTCjUH.qs6DEBZ6cfGOiXUURlOLxe38dlSGryRUbbbcJaevRHboAyIeMh28lXfm vWXnTbyNZ_GresL1SDoMFqk9clajsvLot8sq5P8rbnQ8dJNYr3tPQGQaMQXV3mitFe4WhS58unK5 RtweFZbEU.ZsI0Ig7hSAX.W3dTeK3mhfRqjr6ZoT6os.dMpGtw.Q9Wzbd5lnCmgMJRTPpmtP_IU5 Z3EFrjZ8N.UWTJt6nMHnCNQcmnHBnzJtO1.bvEh0MtyadC6di6yGOcCTWdNgkln4pkaHymmunCNr NgBEAQwjCEIaEOrsJ8YFuTVtHxmMvUrelcpo9mFTm_SEeruGrVPbw9yywhyhTI1lFFSoaAXHEbli l1fuywcnE_iOQ0C1CvMoJYlafelRpnOigoVFqvDrWbxExKZyryp3yooOFjJJi53XtWWeBKRT3JIQ L54OOKxdGPc52TTqU84IeyVAcgY1brW0oXzhHHktL0adAfwLwd4hm.85ZL0Lm_ujNlBJwBHlpDQ5 wnBwvaLhHM830MrqRnd4m86XupeOBASJyrNFl_Cs9aQRwLY4- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 15:15:15 +0000 Received: from 238.red-79-150-161.dynamicip.rima-tde.net (EHLO [192.168.1.38]) ([79.150.161.238]) by smtp424.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID de42567e658bfbf8035a1eaf7486f9ac; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 15:15:14 +0000 (UTC) From: "R. Diez" Subject: Re: bug#32142: WG: 26.1; Problems with flyspell-region To: Eli Zaretskii References: <745366070.6138533.1531494673065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <745366070.6138533.1531494673065@mail.yahoo.com> <83zhyuc45n.fsf@gnu.org> <1411313637.6317903.1531513379661@mail.yahoo.com> <83lgaeb6qk.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <912664a1-96e1-1a91-7b86-97184cf62aaf@yahoo.de> Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2018 17:15:12 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83lgaeb6qk.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32142 Cc: 32142@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > I added the caveats to the doc strings of the relevant functions and > variables. That's good, thanks. > I object to the "unable or unwilling" part of your complaint. > I was just stating the fact that the feature you expected was > missing from Emacs, because no one designed and coded it. My "complaining" and your "stating of the fact" are both subjective perceptions. My point of view is as follows: I took several e-mails to fix (if only in the documentation) an obvious issue I had reported correctly and I had to insist. Your answers were selective, side-stepping the problem. Your tend to answer in an authoritative way, kind of supporting or defending the current implementation, or negating the existence of a problem. It is a frustrating exercise. This is not the first time that this kind of "resistance" happens to me with open source projects, or with the Emacs developers. It is in fact a recurring pattern. At least we are getting somewhere, if only through your doc improvements. > ??? Did you read the help provided by ispell-region? You could > either: > [...] ispell-region is an even better example than Flyspell on what is wrong with a lot of Emacs modules: - When I press '?', the extended help message disappears after a few seconds, while in the middle of reading it. - The wording "exit" and "quit" is ambiguous. - The difference between exiting with 'x' and 'X' is not clear from that message. - I cannot type 'C-u M-$' to resume spell-checking, because Ctrl+U is mapped to something else on my config, and I cannot get M-$ to work anyway with my German keyboard. Or maybe because Alt+4 ('$' is on the '4' key) is mapped to something else. Who knows. - I do not understand why I have to learn so much to use ispell-region anyway. Why should I enter some "recursive edit" mode or read so much documentation? I should just move the cursor around and fix spelling, as usual. If I go out of the region, and the mode stops, I could understand that. Or maybe if I cannot get out of the region until I quit the "spelling mode". But the rest is too much. - The way to get further help, that you mention, is typing "x C-h f ispell-help", which is so long I forgot when the help text disappeared before I finished reading it anyway. But now you mentioned it, I looked at the help. It's awful. It feels like vim. There is even a "Redraw screen" command! How can you say it is "very convenient"??? I guess we could start a new bug about ispell, couldn't we? But I feel like I overstepped my time budget with Emacs spell-checkers this year. So I'll leave it at this point. Regards, rdiez From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 14 11:44:09 2018 Received: (at 32142) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jul 2018 15:44:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60217 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1feMiP-0003uG-8M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:44:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34776) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1feMiM-0003tt-V4 for 32142@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:44:07 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1feMiD-0000G6-10 for 32142@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:44:01 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:43959) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1feMiC-0000Fu-Tk; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:43:56 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2941 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1feMiC-0003iP-B8; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:43:56 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2018 18:44:00 +0300 Message-Id: <834lh1bz5r.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "R. Diez" In-reply-to: <912664a1-96e1-1a91-7b86-97184cf62aaf@yahoo.de> (rdiezmail-emacs@yahoo.de) Subject: Re: bug#32142: WG: 26.1; Problems with flyspell-region References: <745366070.6138533.1531494673065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <745366070.6138533.1531494673065@mail.yahoo.com> <83zhyuc45n.fsf@gnu.org> <1411313637.6317903.1531513379661@mail.yahoo.com> <83lgaeb6qk.fsf@gnu.org> <912664a1-96e1-1a91-7b86-97184cf62aaf@yahoo.de> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32142 Cc: 32142@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: "R. Diez" > Cc: 32142@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2018 17:15:12 +0200 > > > I object to the "unable or unwilling" part of your complaint. > > I was just stating the fact that the feature you expected was > missing from Emacs, because no one designed and coded it. > > My "complaining" and your "stating of the fact" are both subjective > perceptions. No, a fact is not a subjective thing. > My point of view is as follows: I took several e-mails to fix (if only > in the documentation) an obvious issue I had reported correctly and I > had to insist. Your answers were selective, side-stepping the problem. > Your tend to answer in an authoritative way, kind of supporting or > defending the current implementation, or negating the existence of a > problem. It is a frustrating exercise. This is not the first time that > this kind of "resistance" happens to me with open source projects, or > with the Emacs developers. It is in fact a recurring pattern. What you perceive is "selective", "side-stepping", "authoritative", and "defensive" responses were just my attempts at understanding the issues in full, that's all. > I guess we could start a new bug about ispell, couldn't we? You could, yes. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 14 11:56:13 2018 Received: (at 32142-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jul 2018 15:56:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60225 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1feMu4-0004CC-Sn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:56:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37136) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1feMu3-0004C1-CX for 32142-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:56:11 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1feMtu-0002ti-4k for 32142-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:56:06 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:44096) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1feMtu-0002tO-0a; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:56:02 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3692 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1feMtt-0004hR-8M; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:56:01 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2018 18:56:05 +0300 Message-Id: <83zhytak16.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "R. Diez" In-reply-to: <912664a1-96e1-1a91-7b86-97184cf62aaf@yahoo.de> (rdiezmail-emacs@yahoo.de) Subject: Re: bug#32142: WG: 26.1; Problems with flyspell-region References: <745366070.6138533.1531494673065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <745366070.6138533.1531494673065@mail.yahoo.com> <83zhyuc45n.fsf@gnu.org> <1411313637.6317903.1531513379661@mail.yahoo.com> <83lgaeb6qk.fsf@gnu.org> <912664a1-96e1-1a91-7b86-97184cf62aaf@yahoo.de> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32142-done Cc: 32142-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: "R. Diez" > Cc: 32142@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2018 17:15:12 +0200 > > - I cannot type 'C-u M-$' to resume spell-checking, because Ctrl+U is > mapped to something else on my config, and I cannot get M-$ to work > anyway with my German keyboard. Or maybe because Alt+4 ('$' is on the > '4' key) is mapped to something else. Who knows. I fixed this blunder, and I'm marking the bug done. Thanks for your report and suggestions. From unknown Mon Jun 23 16:46:42 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator