From unknown Wed Sep 10 09:37:39 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#31683: emacs-lisp-intro.texi - opportunity to link eintr to elisp Resent-From: Van L Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2018 10:41:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 31683 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 31683@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.152793601127411 (code B ref -1); Sat, 02 Jun 2018 10:41:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jun 2018 10:40:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58400 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fP3xD-000783-2f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:40:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38570) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fP3xB-00077r-GI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:40:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fP3x5-0002Yx-Dc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:40:04 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:34107) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fP3x5-0002Yn-AA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:40:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57769) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fP3x4-0004eR-A2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:40:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fP3x1-0002Vb-6H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:40:02 -0400 Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.200]:50037) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fP3x0-0002U8-Vh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:39:59 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 123.243.250.252 Received: from epi.local (123-243-250-252.tpgi.com.au [123.243.250.252]) (Authenticated sender: van@scratch.space) by relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DB0EE20007 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 12:40:01 +0200 (CEST) From: Van L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 20:39:49 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) Hello. The footnote at line 2150 *indirectly* links to (elisp) Printed = Representation, which details what an expression is. : 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 2150) learn how to = read it.@footnote{@code{(quote hello)} is an expansion of At line 2508 in the summary is an opportunity to *directly* link the = mention of expressions to (elisp) Printed Representation. : 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 2508) Lisp programs = are made up of expressions, which are lists or single atoms. (I will re-open this bug number for future opportunities to link eintr, = elisp after it is closed.)= From unknown Wed Sep 10 09:37:39 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Van L Subject: bug#31683: closed (Re: bug#31683: emacs-lisp-intro.texi - opportunity to link eintr to elisp) Message-ID: References: <83bmcte7yr.fsf@gnu.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 31683 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 31683@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2018 11:37:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1527939422-8078-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1527939422-8078-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #31683: emacs-lisp-intro.texi - opportunity to link eintr to elisp which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 31683@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 31683: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D31683 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1527939422-8078-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 31683-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jun 2018 11:36:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58438 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fP4pZ-00025Q-78 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 07:36:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51169) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fP4pY-00025C-Hl for 31683-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 07:36:20 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fP4pQ-0000Lk-5F for 31683-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 07:36:15 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:44592) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fP4pQ-0000LR-1a; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 07:36:12 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2174 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fP4pN-0007Wb-Vw; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 07:36:10 -0400 Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2018 14:36:12 +0300 Message-Id: <83bmcte7yr.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Van L In-reply-to: (message from Van L on Sat, 2 Jun 2018 20:39:49 +1000) Subject: Re: bug#31683: emacs-lisp-intro.texi - opportunity to link eintr to elisp References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31683-done Cc: 31683-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Van L > Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 20:39:49 +1000 > > The footnote at line 2150 *indirectly* links to (elisp) Printed Representation, which details what an expression is. > > : 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 2150) learn how to read it.@footnote{@code{(quote hello)} is an expansion of I don't think I agree: the relation to expressions is too far-fetched here. > At line 2508 in the summary is an opportunity to *directly* link the mention of expressions to (elisp) Printed Representation. > > : 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 2508) Lisp programs are made up of expressions, which are lists or single atoms. Expressions were explained in the previous sub-sections, so I don't think we need to add a cross-reference here. (In any case, having cross-references in a Summary is IME bad style, since it means we failed to describe something in the parts being summarized. A summary should never say anything that wasn't already said before.) > (I will re-open this bug number for future opportunities to link eintr, elisp after it is closed.) Please don't, as each issue should be a separate bug report. ------------=_1527939422-8078-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jun 2018 10:40:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58400 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fP3xD-000783-2f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:40:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38570) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fP3xB-00077r-GI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:40:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fP3x5-0002Yx-Dc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:40:04 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:34107) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fP3x5-0002Yn-AA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:40:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57769) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fP3x4-0004eR-A2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:40:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fP3x1-0002Vb-6H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:40:02 -0400 Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.200]:50037) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fP3x0-0002U8-Vh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:39:59 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 123.243.250.252 Received: from epi.local (123-243-250-252.tpgi.com.au [123.243.250.252]) (Authenticated sender: van@scratch.space) by relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DB0EE20007 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 12:40:01 +0200 (CEST) From: Van L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: emacs-lisp-intro.texi - opportunity to link eintr to elisp Message-Id: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 20:39:49 +1000 To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) Hello. The footnote at line 2150 *indirectly* links to (elisp) Printed = Representation, which details what an expression is. : 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 2150) learn how to = read it.@footnote{@code{(quote hello)} is an expansion of At line 2508 in the summary is an opportunity to *directly* link the = mention of expressions to (elisp) Printed Representation. : 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 2508) Lisp programs = are made up of expressions, which are lists or single atoms. (I will re-open this bug number for future opportunities to link eintr, = elisp after it is closed.)= ------------=_1527939422-8078-1-- From unknown Wed Sep 10 09:37:39 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#31683: emacs-lisp-intro.texi - opportunity to link eintr to elisp Resent-From: Van L Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2018 13:31:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 31683 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 31683-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 31683-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D31683.152794624418882 (code D ref 31683); Sat, 02 Jun 2018 13:31:01 +0000 Received: (at 31683-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jun 2018 13:30:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58483 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fP6cG-0004uT-Ew for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 09:30:44 -0400 Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.197]:57203) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fP6cE-0004uJ-Kq for 31683-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 09:30:43 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 123.243.250.252 Received: from epi.local (123-243-250-252.tpgi.com.au [123.243.250.252]) (Authenticated sender: van@scratch.space) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4A1511C000D; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 15:30:39 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Van L In-Reply-To: <83bmcte7yr.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 23:30:35 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <83bmcte7yr.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Eli Zaretskii writes: >=20 >> From: Van L >> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 20:39:49 +1000 >>=20 >> The footnote at line 2150 *indirectly* links to (elisp) Printed = Representation, which details what an expression is. >>=20 >> : 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 2150) learn how = to read it.@footnote{@code{(quote hello)} is an expansion of >=20 > I don't think I agree: the relation to expressions is too far-fetched > here. #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 1151) The printed = representation of both atoms and lists are called 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 1152) @dfn{symbolic = expressions} or, more concisely, @dfn{s-expressions}. 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 1153) The word = @dfn{expression} by itself can refer to either the printed 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 1154) representation, = or to the atom or list as it is held internally in the 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 1155) computer. = Often, people use the term @dfn{expression} 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 1156) = indiscriminately. (Also, in many texts, the word @dfn{form} is used 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 1157) as a synonym for = expression.) b8d4c8d0e93 doc/lispref/objects.texi (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 = 95) In other languages, an expression is text; it has no other form. = In b8d4c8d0e93 doc/lispref/objects.texi (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 = 96) Lisp, an expression is primarily a Lisp object and only secondarily = the b8d4c8d0e93 doc/lispref/objects.texi (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 = 97) text that is the object's read syntax. Often there is no need to b8d4c8d0e93 doc/lispref/objects.texi (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 = 98) emphasize this distinction, but you must keep it in the back of your b8d4c8d0e93 doc/lispref/objects.texi (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 = 99) mind, or you will occasionally be very confused. #+END_EXAMPLE Anyway. I find the above two snippets useful to link. >> (I will re-open this bug number for future opportunities to link = eintr, elisp after it is closed.) >=20 > Please don't, as each issue should be a separate bug report. I won=E2=80=99t. From unknown Wed Sep 10 09:37:39 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#31683: emacs-lisp-intro.texi - opportunity to link eintr to elisp Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2018 14:14:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 31683 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Van L Cc: 31683@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 31683-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B31683.152794880624562 (code B ref 31683); Sat, 02 Jun 2018 14:14:01 +0000 Received: (at 31683) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jun 2018 14:13:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59450 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fP7HZ-0006O6-Sw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 10:13:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51528) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fP7HY-0006Nr-AL for 31683@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 10:13:24 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fP7HP-0003Yx-UV for 31683@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 10:13:19 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46594) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fP7HP-0003Yi-Q7; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 10:13:15 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2281 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fP7HP-0005Mx-94; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 10:13:15 -0400 Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2018 17:13:18 +0300 Message-Id: <838t7xe0ox.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Van L on Sat, 2 Jun 2018 23:30:35 +1000) References: <83bmcte7yr.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Van L > Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 23:30:35 +1000 > Cc: 31683-done@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> : 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 2150) learn how to read it.@footnote{@code{(quote hello)} is an expansion of > > > > I don't think I agree: the relation to expressions is too far-fetched > > here. > > #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE > 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 1151) The printed representation of both atoms and lists are called > 8cda6f8f44b (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 1152) @dfn{symbolic expressions} or, more concisely, @dfn{s-expressions}. Which is actually related to the second location you mentioned, and seems to explain enough of what an s-expression is to be self-contained. In general, this manual is not an introduction chapter for the ELisp manual, and never wanted to be. It only includes cross-references to the ELisp manual where it just mentions some subtlety, but doesn't describe it. These two places don't seem like they fit. From unknown Wed Sep 10 09:37:39 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#31683: emacs-lisp-intro.texi - opportunity to link eintr to elisp Resent-From: Van L Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:12:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 31683 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 31683@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 31683-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B31683.15279919182061 (code B ref 31683); Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:12:01 +0000 Received: (at 31683) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jun 2018 02:11:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59708 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fPIUw-0000XB-0Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:11:58 -0400 Received: from relay11.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.231]:36839) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fPIUu-0000Wz-5b for 31683@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:11:56 -0400 Received: from epi.local (123-243-250-252.tpgi.com.au [123.243.250.252]) (Authenticated sender: van@scratch.space) by relay11.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B9A82100007; Sun, 3 Jun 2018 04:11:52 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Van L In-Reply-To: <838t7xe0ox.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2018 12:11:48 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <55844132-EA2F-4D3B-835B-0870743E666D@scratch.space> References: <83bmcte7yr.fsf@gnu.org> <838t7xe0ox.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Eli Zaretskii writes: >=20 > Which is actually related to the second location you mentioned Which was the summary section. > In general, this manual is not an introduction chapter for the ELisp > manual The impression given in other discussion about this was the intention = for eintr to be close and interwoven with elisp at a level of detail = that bends over backwards for a ,non-programmer'. There are in general two kinds of people.=20 One digests the elisp. Straight away. The other prefers eintr at first.=20 Having tips of the elisp in the eintr is consciousness raising and = invites the reader to go far one day. From unknown Wed Sep 10 09:37:39 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#31683: emacs-lisp-intro.texi - opportunity to link eintr to elisp Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2018 15:20:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 31683 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Van L Cc: 31683@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 31683-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B31683.1528039153453 (code B ref 31683); Sun, 03 Jun 2018 15:20:02 +0000 Received: (at 31683) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jun 2018 15:19:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60436 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fPUmn-00007F-0z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2018 11:19:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39773) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fPUml-000072-Be for 31683@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2018 11:19:11 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fPUmc-0001lf-4j for 31683@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2018 11:19:06 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:60423) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fPUmc-0001lN-0h; Sun, 03 Jun 2018 11:19:02 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4020 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fPUmb-0003eo-BH; Sun, 03 Jun 2018 11:19:01 -0400 Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2018 18:19:07 +0300 Message-Id: <83o9grdhjo.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <55844132-EA2F-4D3B-835B-0870743E666D@scratch.space> (message from Van L on Sun, 3 Jun 2018 12:11:48 +1000) References: <83bmcte7yr.fsf@gnu.org> <838t7xe0ox.fsf@gnu.org> <55844132-EA2F-4D3B-835B-0870743E666D@scratch.space> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Van L > Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2018 12:11:48 +1000 > Cc: 31683@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > > Which is actually related to the second location you mentioned > > Which was the summary section. Right. > > In general, this manual is not an introduction chapter for the ELisp > > manual > > The impression given in other discussion about this was the intention for eintr to be close and interwoven with elisp at a level of detail that bends over backwards for a ,non-programmer'. > > There are in general two kinds of people. > > One digests the elisp. Straight away. > > The other prefers eintr at first. > > Having tips of the elisp in the eintr is consciousness raising and invites the reader to go far one day. I'm not saying there should be no cross-references to ELisp -- we already have quite a few. I'm saying that having a cross-reference in every place where we could possibly place one is not TRT for this manual, because it is not a reference manual. From unknown Wed Sep 10 09:37:39 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#31683: emacs-lisp-intro.texi - opportunity to link eintr to elisp Resent-From: Van L Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2018 01:27:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 31683 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 31683@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 31683-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B31683.152807560920822 (code B ref 31683); Mon, 04 Jun 2018 01:27:01 +0000 Received: (at 31683) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jun 2018 01:26:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60711 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fPeGn-0005Pm-Ai for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2018 21:26:49 -0400 Received: from relay11.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.231]:58329) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fPeGl-0005Pd-Fm for 31683@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2018 21:26:48 -0400 Received: from epi.local (123-243-250-252.tpgi.com.au [123.243.250.252]) (Authenticated sender: van@scratch.space) by relay11.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EF4FF10000D; Mon, 4 Jun 2018 03:26:44 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Van L In-Reply-To: <83o9grdhjo.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2018 11:26:40 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <260301D0-E733-49E0-9369-BE566DAB552B@scratch.space> References: <83bmcte7yr.fsf@gnu.org> <838t7xe0ox.fsf@gnu.org> <55844132-EA2F-4D3B-835B-0870743E666D@scratch.space> <83o9grdhjo.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Eli Zaretskii writes: >=20 > because it is not a reference manual I was motivated to make this suggestion only because I followed the = footnote trail to two hops removed and found that snippet worth = advertising to a new reader a second time incase they didn=E2=80=99t go = the distance the first. Anyway. Your call.