From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 24 23:32:24 2018 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 03:32:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47195 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM3So-0001YG-E7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2018 23:32:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35132) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM3Sm-0001Y3-8x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2018 23:32:20 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM3Sg-0003Nz-99 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2018 23:32:15 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:43084) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM3Sg-0003Ns-6J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2018 23:32:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54331) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM3Sf-0006RY-6t for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2018 23:32:13 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM3Sb-0003M1-8t for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2018 23:32:13 -0400 Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.200]:60339) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM3Sb-0003KU-2G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2018 23:32:09 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 123.243.244.176 Received: from epi.local (123-243-244-176.tpgi.com.au [123.243.244.176]) (Authenticated sender: van@scratch.space) by relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5400C2000D for ; Fri, 25 May 2018 05:32:11 +0200 (CEST) From: Van L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: lispintro - Backtrace read out update Message-Id: <1A9F2814-EBF9-4A75-8A1C-790DE1BFDE0A@scratch.space> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 13:32:02 +1000 To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) Hello. The documentation and behavior are different. diff --git a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi = b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi index b79432e..a3a2155 100644 --- a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi +++ b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi @@ -1339,10 +1339,12 @@ Making Errors ---------- Buffer: *Backtrace* ---------- Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-function this) (this is an unquoted list) - eval((this is an unquoted list)) - eval-last-sexp-1(nil) + eval((this is an unquoted list) nil) + elisp--eval-last-sexp(nil) eval-last-sexp(nil) - call-interactively(eval-last-sexp) + funcall-interactively(eval-last-sexp nil) + call-interactively(eval-last-sexp nil nil) + command-execute(eval-last-sexp) ---------- Buffer: *Backtrace* ---------- @end group @end smallexample= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 25 00:21:34 2018 Received: (at 31589) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 04:21:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47226 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM4EP-0002fG-Ra for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 00:21:34 -0400 Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.196]:48409) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM4EN-0002f6-8o for 31589@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 00:21:31 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 123.243.244.176 Received: from epi.local (123-243-244-176.tpgi.com.au [123.243.244.176]) (Authenticated sender: van@scratch.space) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 06E6AE0002 for <31589@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 25 May 2018 06:21:30 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Subject: Re: bug#31589: Acknowledgement (lispintro - Backtrace read out update) From: Van L In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 14:21:24 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1A9F2814-EBF9-4A75-8A1C-790DE1BFDE0A@scratch.space> To: 31589@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31589 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) In the example given, I think if the first atom of the list is = `this-here=E2=80=99, as in: (this-here is an unquoted list) explained in the context of `(void-function this-here)=E2=80=99 stands = out distinctly from other uses of `this=E2=80=99 in the surrounding = text. : 8cda6f8f (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 1318) (this is an = unquoted list)= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 25 04:37:42 2018 Received: (at 31589-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 08:37:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47342 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM8EI-00009y-8y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:37:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51553) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM8EG-00009l-Vk for 31589-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:37:41 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM8E7-0000YQ-Mv for 31589-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:37:35 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:53749) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM8E7-0000YF-JA; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:37:31 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1462 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fM8E7-0002Q0-0i; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:37:31 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 11:37:43 +0300 Message-Id: <83bmd49lm0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Van L In-reply-to: <1A9F2814-EBF9-4A75-8A1C-790DE1BFDE0A@scratch.space> (message from Van L on Fri, 25 May 2018 13:32:02 +1000) Subject: Re: bug#31589: lispintro - Backtrace read out update References: <1A9F2814-EBF9-4A75-8A1C-790DE1BFDE0A@scratch.space> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31589-done Cc: 31589-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Van L > Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 13:32:02 +1000 > > The documentation and behavior are different. Thanks, fixed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 25 04:39:08 2018 Received: (at 31589) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 08:39:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47348 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM8Fg-0000Ci-Ky for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:39:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51952) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM8Fe-0000CW-VG for 31589@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:39:07 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM8FV-0001Pv-Vr for 31589@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:39:01 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:53767) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM8FV-0001Pl-Sm; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:38:57 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1463 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fM8FV-00047R-6q; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:38:57 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 11:39:10 +0300 Message-Id: <83a7so9ljl.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Van L In-reply-to: (message from Van L on Fri, 25 May 2018 14:21:24 +1000) Subject: Re: bug#31589: Acknowledgement (lispintro - Backtrace read out update) References: <1A9F2814-EBF9-4A75-8A1C-790DE1BFDE0A@scratch.space> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31589 Cc: 31589@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Van L > Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 14:21:24 +1000 > > In the example given, I think if the first atom of the list is `this-here’, as in: > > (this-here is an unquoted list) > > explained in the context of `(void-function this-here)’ stands out distinctly from other uses of `this’ in the surrounding text. > > : 8cda6f8f (Glenn Morris 2007-09-06 1318) (this is an unquoted list) Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say. The string "this-here" doesn't appear anywhere in this manual. And 'this' is a commonly-used symbol in these days of OOP. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 25 04:59:59 2018 Received: (at 31589) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 08:59:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47408 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM8Zr-0002gs-EC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:59:59 -0400 Received: from relay10.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.230]:33195) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM8Zp-0002gk-FH for 31589@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:59:58 -0400 Received: from epi.local (123-243-244-176.tpgi.com.au [123.243.244.176]) (Authenticated sender: van@scratch.space) by relay10.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 07061240012; Fri, 25 May 2018 10:59:53 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Subject: Re: bug#31589: Acknowledgement (lispintro - Backtrace read out update) From: Van L In-Reply-To: <83a7so9ljl.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 18:59:49 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <49D86973-F29B-4C04-B6AE-A89D4D88828D@scratch.space> References: <1A9F2814-EBF9-4A75-8A1C-790DE1BFDE0A@scratch.space> <83a7so9ljl.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31589 Cc: 31589@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > On 25 May 2018, at 18:39, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 > And 'this' is a > commonly-used symbol in these days of OOP. Yes. That=E2=80=99s one of the two sources of confusion, the other is = the plain old English `this=E2=80=99 used in the unquoted list and = surrounding discussion. Having `this-here=E2=80=99 emphasizes the first atom of the list being = discussed as distinct from `this' in an oop sense or ordinary `this' in = a sentence. It bends over backwards more for a non-programmer. Anyway, your call.= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 25 05:58:49 2018 Received: (at 31589) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 09:58:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47460 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM9Um-00042x-VG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 05:58:49 -0400 Received: from smtp-1.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.34]:52596) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM9Uk-00042m-0y for 31589@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 05:58:47 -0400 Received: from [10.253.37.70] (port=35956 helo=webmail.orcon.net.nz) by smtp-1.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM9Ug-0003Ze-7H; Fri, 25 May 2018 21:58:42 +1200 Received: from wlgwil-nat-office.catalyst.net.nz ([202.78.240.7]) via [10.253.37.253] by webmail.orcon.net.nz with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Fri, 25 May 2018 21:58:42 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 21:58:42 +1200 From: Phil Sainty To: Van L Subject: Re: bug#31589: Acknowledgement (lispintro - Backtrace read out update) In-Reply-To: <49D86973-F29B-4C04-B6AE-A89D4D88828D@scratch.space> References: <1A9F2814-EBF9-4A75-8A1C-790DE1BFDE0A@scratch.space> <83a7so9ljl.fsf@gnu.org> <49D86973-F29B-4C04-B6AE-A89D4D88828D@scratch.space> Message-ID: <25cf907d50df80056208670922c9d570@webmail.orcon.net.nz> X-Sender: psainty@orcon.net.nz User-Agent: Orcon Webmail X-GeoIP: -- X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31589 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 31589@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2018-05-25 20:59, Van L wrote: > Having `this-here’ emphasizes the first atom of the list being > discussed as distinct from `this' in an oop sense or ordinary `this' > in a sentence. It bends over backwards more for a non-programmer. A bit awkward, though? I think "(here is an unquoted list)" would be nicer than that, if such a change was to be made. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 25 06:38:03 2018 Received: (at 31589) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 10:38:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47488 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMA6l-00054h-4H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 06:38:03 -0400 Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.232]:40907) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMA6j-00054H-44 for 31589@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 06:38:01 -0400 Received: from epi.local (123-243-244-176.tpgi.com.au [123.243.244.176]) (Authenticated sender: van@scratch.space) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7A45A200007; Fri, 25 May 2018 12:37:56 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Subject: Re: bug#31589: Acknowledgement (lispintro - Backtrace read out update) From: Van L In-Reply-To: <25cf907d50df80056208670922c9d570@webmail.orcon.net.nz> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 20:37:52 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <552DA675-464F-43D3-8EEF-3838EED0E91F@scratch.space> References: <1A9F2814-EBF9-4A75-8A1C-790DE1BFDE0A@scratch.space> <83a7so9ljl.fsf@gnu.org> <49D86973-F29B-4C04-B6AE-A89D4D88828D@scratch.space> <25cf907d50df80056208670922c9d570@webmail.orcon.net.nz> To: Phil Sainty X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31589 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 31589@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Phil Sainty writes: >=20 > Van L writes: >> Having `this-here=E2=80=99 emphasizes the first atom of the list = being >> discussed as distinct from `this' in an oop sense or ordinary `this' >> in a sentence. It bends over backwards more for a non-programmer. >=20 > A bit awkward, though? >=20 > I think "(here is an unquoted list)" would be nicer than that, if > such a change was to be made. Not awkward in the following context, which has the hyphenated = `void-function=E2=80=99. (void-function this-here) Looks nicer to me. It hints of being lispy. hmmm, yeah, this works, too, and won=E2=80=99t add more. (void-function here)= From unknown Fri Sep 05 11:00:48 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator