GNU bug report logs - #31589
lispintro - Backtrace read out update

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: lispintro - Backtrace read out update
Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 13:32:02 +1000

Hello.

The documentation and behavior are different.

diff --git a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
index b79432e..a3a2155 100644
--- a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
+++ b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
@@ -1339,10 +1339,12 @@ Making Errors
 ---------- Buffer: *Backtrace* ----------
 Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-function this)
   (this is an unquoted list)
-  eval((this is an unquoted list))
-  eval-last-sexp-1(nil)
+  eval((this is an unquoted list) nil)
+  elisp--eval-last-sexp(nil)
   eval-last-sexp(nil)
-  call-interactively(eval-last-sexp)
+  funcall-interactively(eval-last-sexp nil)
+  call-interactively(eval-last-sexp nil nil)
+  command-execute(eval-last-sexp)
 ---------- Buffer: *Backtrace* ----------
 @end group
 @end smallexample

Message #8 received at 31589 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
To: 31589 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#31589: Acknowledgement (lispintro - Backtrace read out update)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 14:21:24 +1000

In the example given, I think if the first atom of the list is `this-here’, as in:

  (this-here is an unquoted list)

explained in the context of `(void-function this-here)’ stands out distinctly from other uses of `this’ in the surrounding text.

: 8cda6f8f (Glenn Morris             2007-09-06  1318) (this is an unquoted list)

Message #13 received at 31589-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
Cc: 31589-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#31589: lispintro - Backtrace read out update
Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 11:37:43 +0300

> From: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 13:32:02 +1000
> 
> The documentation and behavior are different.

Thanks, fixed.

Message #16 received at 31589 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
Cc: 31589 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#31589: Acknowledgement (lispintro - Backtrace read out update)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 11:39:10 +0300

> From: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 14:21:24 +1000
> 
> In the example given, I think if the first atom of the list is `this-here’, as in:
> 
>   (this-here is an unquoted list)
> 
> explained in the context of `(void-function this-here)’ stands out distinctly from other uses of `this’ in the surrounding text.
> 
> : 8cda6f8f (Glenn Morris             2007-09-06  1318) (this is an unquoted list)

Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say.  The string
"this-here" doesn't appear anywhere in this manual.  And 'this' is a
commonly-used symbol in these days of OOP.

Message #19 received at 31589 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 31589 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#31589: Acknowledgement (lispintro - Backtrace read out update)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 18:59:49 +1000

> On 25 May 2018, at 18:39, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
> 
> And 'this' is a
> commonly-used symbol in these days of OOP.

Yes. That’s one of the two sources of confusion, the other is the plain old English `this’ used in the unquoted list and surrounding discussion.

Having `this-here’ emphasizes the first atom of the list being discussed as distinct from `this' in an oop sense or ordinary `this' in a sentence. It bends over backwards more for a non-programmer.

Anyway, your call.

Message #22 received at 31589 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>
To: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 31589 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 bug-gnu-emacs <bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+psainty=orcon.net.nz <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#31589: Acknowledgement (lispintro - Backtrace read out update)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 21:58:42 +1200

On 2018-05-25 20:59, Van L wrote:
> Having `this-here’ emphasizes the first atom of the list being
> discussed as distinct from `this' in an oop sense or ordinary `this'
> in a sentence. It bends over backwards more for a non-programmer.

A bit awkward, though?

I think "(here is an unquoted list)" would be nicer than that, if
such a change was to be made.

Message #25 received at 31589 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Van L <van <at> scratch.space>
To: Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 31589 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 bug-gnu-emacs <bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+psainty=orcon.net.nz <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#31589: Acknowledgement (lispintro - Backtrace read out update)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 20:37:52 +1000

> Phil Sainty writes:
> 
> Van L writes:
>> Having `this-here’ emphasizes the first atom of the list being
>> discussed as distinct from `this' in an oop sense or ordinary `this'
>> in a sentence. It bends over backwards more for a non-programmer.
> 
> A bit awkward, though?
> 
> I think "(here is an unquoted list)" would be nicer than that, if
> such a change was to be made.

Not awkward in the following context, which has the hyphenated `void-function’.

(void-function this-here)

Looks nicer to me.
It hints of being lispy.

hmmm, yeah, this works, too, and won’t add more.

(void-function here)

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