From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 21 16:23:33 2018 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Apr 2018 20:23:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35188 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f9z2i-0000vI-TX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 16:23:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48567) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f9z2h-0000v5-E0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 16:23:31 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f9z2b-0003vR-Ao for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 16:23:26 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:56440) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f9z2b-0003vH-7j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 16:23:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39525) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f9z2a-0002Zh-2c for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 16:23:24 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f9z2V-0003qL-51 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 16:23:24 -0400 Received: from sub3.mail.dreamhost.com ([69.163.253.7]:55160 helo=homiemail-a100.g.dreamhost.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f9z2U-0003pG-Uz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 16:23:19 -0400 Received: from homiemail-a100.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a100.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D43631A075 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 13:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.linkov.net (m91-129-110-22.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.110.22]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jurta@jurta.org) by homiemail-a100.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9F48731A070 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 13:23:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Symbol search broken in NEWS and ChangeLogs Organization: LINKOV.NET Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 23:21:05 +0300 Message-ID: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x (no timestamps) [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Symbol search =E2=80=98M-s _=E2=80=99 fails to find symbols in NEWS and C= hangeLogs where symbols are quoted by apostrophes whose syntax is word-constituent. I see two solutions: 1. Modify syntax tables to redefine syntax of =E2=80=98'=E2=80=99 back to= its default that is punctuation or to expression quote: (defvar change-log-mode-syntax-table (let ((st (make-syntax-table))) (modify-syntax-entry ?' "' " st) st) "Syntax table used while in `change-log-mode'.") This solution is not applicable to NEWS files where text-mode syntax tables are inherited via outline-mode whose syntax table can't be changed. 2. In these files replace apostrophes by =E2=80=9CLEFT SINGLE QUOTATION M= ARK=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CRIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK=E2=80=9D like are used in Info an= d Help buffers. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 22 13:14:19 2018 Received: (at 31231) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Apr 2018 17:14:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35988 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fAIZ9-0000RN-8W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 13:14:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58835) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fAIZ7-0000Qx-Hj for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 13:14:17 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fAIYx-00032K-IP for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 13:14:12 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:54655) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fAIYx-00032G-EY; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 13:14:07 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3918 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fAIYw-0000Yi-Qr; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 13:14:07 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 20:13:56 +0300 Message-Id: <83vacjw4dn.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-reply-to: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Sat, 21 Apr 2018 23:21:05 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#31231: Symbol search broken in NEWS and ChangeLogs References: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31231 Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Juri Linkov > Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 23:21:05 +0300 > > Symbol search ‘M-s _’ fails to find symbols in NEWS and ChangeLogs where > symbols are quoted by apostrophes whose syntax is word-constituent. These files use modes that are descendants of text-mode, so the notion of a symbol in general makes little sense there. IOW, this is plain text, not a program. > 1. Modify syntax tables to redefine syntax of ‘'’ back to its default > that is punctuation or to expression quote: > > (defvar change-log-mode-syntax-table > (let ((st (make-syntax-table))) > (modify-syntax-entry ?' "' " st) > st) > "Syntax table used while in `change-log-mode'.") > > This solution is not applicable to NEWS files where > text-mode syntax tables are inherited via outline-mode > whose syntax table can't be changed. > > 2. In these files replace apostrophes by “LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK” and > “RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK” like are used in Info and Help buffers. Thanks, but I don't like any of these 2 alternatives. The first one will get in the way of spell-checking words with an apostrophe, the second one will make it harder to view the files on text terminals that don't support UTF-8. Is this really such a bad problem that it requires us to tweak text-based modes? What happens if you try searching for the symbol as a simple string? do you get many false positives? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 22 18:12:49 2018 Received: (at 31231) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Apr 2018 22:12:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36192 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fANE1-0000mp-BJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 18:12:49 -0400 Received: from sub3.mail.dreamhost.com ([69.163.253.7]:33790 helo=homiemail-a23.g.dreamhost.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fANDy-0000me-GE for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 18:12:46 -0400 Received: from homiemail-a23.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a23.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13FDD4B006A; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 15:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.linkov.net (m91-129-96-255.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.96.255]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jurta@jurta.org) by homiemail-a23.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2B07D4B0062; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 15:12:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#31231: Symbol search broken in NEWS and ChangeLogs Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83vacjw4dn.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 01:12:31 +0300 In-Reply-To: <83vacjw4dn.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 22 Apr 2018 20:13:56 +0300") Message-ID: <87y3he7vn4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31231 Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> 2. In these files replace apostrophes by =E2=80=9CLEFT SINGLE QUOTATIO= N MARK=E2=80=9D and >> =E2=80=9CRIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK=E2=80=9D like are used in Info= and Help buffers. > > Thanks, but I don't like any of these 2 alternatives. The first one > will get in the way of spell-checking words with an apostrophe, the > second one will make it harder to view the files on text terminals > that don't support UTF-8. But how these text terminals display Unicode quotes in Info manuals? > Is this really such a bad problem that it requires us to tweak > text-based modes? What happens if you try searching for the symbol as > a simple string? do you get many false positives? Yes, this is a real problem. Now I have a good habit of using symbol search mode everywhere when searching for symbols. But the search failure reminds that NEWS and ChangeLogs are still problematic and I had to try again after switching to literal search. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 22 19:34:22 2018 Received: (at 31231) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Apr 2018 23:34:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36272 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fAOUw-0002hj-JN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 19:34:22 -0400 Received: from smtp-4.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.59]:46895) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fAOUu-0002ha-Nk for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 19:34:21 -0400 Received: from [10.253.37.70] (port=48987 helo=webmail.orcon.net.nz) by smtp-4.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fAOUr-00005E-FK; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 11:34:17 +1200 Received: from wlgwil-nat-office.catalyst.net.nz ([202.78.240.7]) via [10.253.37.253] by webmail.orcon.net.nz with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Mon, 23 Apr 2018 11:34:17 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 11:34:17 +1200 From: Phil Sainty To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#31231: Symbol search broken in NEWS and ChangeLogs In-Reply-To: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> References: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Message-ID: X-Sender: psainty@orcon.net.nz User-Agent: Orcon Webmail X-GeoIP: -- X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31231 Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2018-04-22 08:21, Juri Linkov wrote: > This solution is not applicable to NEWS files where > text-mode syntax tables are inherited via outline-mode > whose syntax table can't be changed. Of course a new derived major mode could be defined with such a syntax table. The NEWS files set their mode with a local variable, so that could be trivially changed if need be. (Not arguing for or against the change, though.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 22 22:33:02 2018 Received: (at 31231) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2018 02:33:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36316 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fARHq-0006kz-BP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 22:33:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56225) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fARHo-0006kV-SY for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 22:33:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fARHg-000567-IE for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 22:32:55 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:60592) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fARHg-000560-Eo; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 22:32:52 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3288 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fARHf-00023w-QC; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 22:32:52 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 05:32:41 +0300 Message-Id: <83sh7mwt2u.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-reply-to: <87y3he7vn4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Mon, 23 Apr 2018 01:12:31 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#31231: Symbol search broken in NEWS and ChangeLogs References: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83vacjw4dn.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3he7vn4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31231 Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 01:12:31 +0300 > > >> 2. In these files replace apostrophes by “LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK” and > >> “RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK” like are used in Info and Help buffers. > > > > Thanks, but I don't like any of these 2 alternatives. The first one > > will get in the way of spell-checking words with an apostrophe, the > > second one will make it harder to view the files on text terminals > > that don't support UTF-8. > > But how these text terminals display Unicode quotes in Info manuals? Info manuals are displayed by an Info reader, and each Info reader has its own solution for this problem (generally, substitution of ASCII characters for undisplayable Unicode ones). I was talking about reading NEWS in a general-purpose text-browsing program, such as Less. It is IMO not a good idea to prevent people from doing that and requiring them to only read NEWS and ChangeLog files in Emacs. > > Is this really such a bad problem that it requires us to tweak > > text-based modes? What happens if you try searching for the symbol as > > a simple string? do you get many false positives? > > Yes, this is a real problem. Now I have a good habit of using > symbol search mode everywhere when searching for symbols. > But the search failure reminds that NEWS and ChangeLogs are still > problematic and I had to try again after switching to literal search. Can you show a real-life example, with a particular symbol, where using a literal search is inconvenient? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 22 22:35:41 2018 Received: (at 31231) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2018 02:35:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36330 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fARKP-0006pt-EI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 22:35:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58080) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fARKN-0006pe-N4 for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 22:35:39 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fARKH-0006Lh-Sg for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 22:35:34 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:60653) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fARKD-0006Jl-LL; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 22:35:29 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3304 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fARKD-0007El-2z; Sun, 22 Apr 2018 22:35:29 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 05:35:19 +0300 Message-Id: <83po2qwsyg.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Phil Sainty In-reply-to: (message from Phil Sainty on Mon, 23 Apr 2018 11:34:17 +1200) Subject: Re: bug#31231: Symbol search broken in NEWS and ChangeLogs References: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31231 Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+psainty=orcon.net.nz@gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 11:34:17 +1200 > From: Phil Sainty > Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org, > bug-gnu-emacs > > On 2018-04-22 08:21, Juri Linkov wrote: > > This solution is not applicable to NEWS files where > > text-mode syntax tables are inherited via outline-mode > > whose syntax table can't be changed. > > Of course a new derived major mode could be defined with such > a syntax table. > > The NEWS files set their mode with a local variable, so that > could be trivially changed if need be. Technically, the solution is simple. The problem is elsewhere, IMO. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 23 16:17:33 2018 Received: (at 31231) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2018 20:17:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37449 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fAhu0-00045S-VV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 16:17:33 -0400 Received: from sub3.mail.dreamhost.com ([69.163.253.7]:50438 helo=homiemail-a21.g.dreamhost.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fAhtz-00045L-NY for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 16:17:32 -0400 Received: from homiemail-a21.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a21.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C491C0072; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 13:17:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.linkov.net (m91-129-103-238.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.103.238]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jurta@jurta.org) by homiemail-a21.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E56341C006E; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 13:17:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#31231: Symbol search broken in NEWS and ChangeLogs Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83vacjw4dn.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3he7vn4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83sh7mwt2u.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 23:16:09 +0300 In-Reply-To: <83sh7mwt2u.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2018 05:32:41 +0300") Message-ID: <8736zlznjq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31231 Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> >> 2. In these files replace apostrophes by =E2=80=9CLEFT SINGLE QUOTA= TION MARK=E2=80=9D and >> >> =E2=80=9CRIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK=E2=80=9D like are used in I= nfo and Help buffers. >> > >> > Thanks, but I don't like any of these 2 alternatives. The first one >> > will get in the way of spell-checking words with an apostrophe, the >> > second one will make it harder to view the files on text terminals >> > that don't support UTF-8. >>=20 >> But how these text terminals display Unicode quotes in Info manuals? > > Info manuals are displayed by an Info reader, and each Info reader has > its own solution for this problem (generally, substitution of ASCII > characters for undisplayable Unicode ones). Does the Emacs Info reader implement such solution? > I was talking about reading NEWS in a general-purpose text-browsing > program, such as Less. It is IMO not a good idea to prevent people > from doing that and requiring them to only read NEWS and ChangeLog > files in Emacs. When I tried to read NEWS using Less in xterm, I can see all these quotes in UTF-8, for example, the quotes in =E2=80=9Clike this=E2=80=9D. >> > Is this really such a bad problem that it requires us to tweak >> > text-based modes? What happens if you try searching for the symbol = as >> > a simple string? do you get many false positives? >>=20 >> Yes, this is a real problem. Now I have a good habit of using >> symbol search mode everywhere when searching for symbols. >> But the search failure reminds that NEWS and ChangeLogs are still >> problematic and I had to try again after switching to literal search. > > Can you show a real-life example, with a particular symbol, where > using a literal search is inconvenient? Every symbol in NEWS quoted by either =E2=80=98straight=E2=80=99 quoting = style 'like this', or =E2=80=98grave=E2=80=99 `like this'. For example, for 'electric-quote= -replace-double' starting Isearch with =E2=80=98M-s .=E2=80=99, and repeating the same sym= bol search in the source code. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 23 22:33:49 2018 Received: (at 31231) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2018 02:33:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37561 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fAnm9-0004JY-OR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 22:33:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35074) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fAnm7-0004JL-UW for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 22:33:48 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fAnly-0007ym-Vi for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 22:33:42 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:54305) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fAnly-0007yi-S2; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 22:33:38 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3993 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fAnly-0000jt-5V; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 22:33:38 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 05:33:30 +0300 Message-Id: <83a7ttwcxx.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-reply-to: <8736zlznjq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Mon, 23 Apr 2018 23:16:09 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#31231: Symbol search broken in NEWS and ChangeLogs References: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83vacjw4dn.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3he7vn4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83sh7mwt2u.fsf@gnu.org> <8736zlznjq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31231 Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 23:16:09 +0300 > > >> But how these text terminals display Unicode quotes in Info manuals? > > > > Info manuals are displayed by an Info reader, and each Info reader has > > its own solution for this problem (generally, substitution of ASCII > > characters for undisplayable Unicode ones). > > Does the Emacs Info reader implement such solution? Emacs itself does, not just in Info. The standalone Info reader (part of the Texinfo package) has a slightly different solution. > > I was talking about reading NEWS in a general-purpose text-browsing > > program, such as Less. It is IMO not a good idea to prevent people > > from doing that and requiring them to only read NEWS and ChangeLog > > files in Emacs. > > When I tried to read NEWS using Less in xterm, I can see all these > quotes in UTF-8, for example, the quotes in “like this”. I guess that's because your text terminal supports UTF-8. > Every symbol in NEWS quoted by either ‘straight’ quoting style 'like this', > or ‘grave’ `like this'. For example, for 'electric-quote-replace-double' > starting Isearch with ‘M-s .’, and repeating the same symbol search in the > source code. I'm asking what us the problem not to use "M-s ." in those cases, and instead to look for the symbol as a literal string. I think in a file like NEWS this shouldn't yield too many false hits. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 23 23:46:15 2018 Received: (at 31231) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2018 03:46:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37589 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fAouF-0005wX-0u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 23:46:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48607) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fAouC-0005wJ-4H for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 23:46:12 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fAou5-0006M6-U7 for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 23:46:06 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55624) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fAotz-0006ID-9H; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 23:45:59 -0400 Received: from [176.12.254.204] (port=63171 helo=[10.209.255.51]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fAoty-0006Is-Ic; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 23:45:59 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 06:45:54 +0300 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <83a7ttwcxx.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83vacjw4dn.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3he7vn4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83sh7mwt2u.fsf@gnu.org> <8736zlznjq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83a7ttwcxx.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: bug#31231: Symbol search broken in NEWS and ChangeLogs To: Juri Linkov From: Eli Zaretskii Message-ID: <65987D9C-DDE5-49C2-B036-326B4CB7E49C@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31231 Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) On April 24, 2018 5:33:30 AM GMT+03:00, Eli Zaretskii wrot= e: > > From: Juri Linkov > > Cc: 31231@debbugs=2Egnu=2Eorg > > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 23:16:09 +0300 > >=20 > > >> But how these text terminals display Unicode quotes in Info > manuals? > > > > > > Info manuals are displayed by an Info reader, and each Info reader > has > > > its own solution for this problem (generally, substitution of > ASCII > > > characters for undisplayable Unicode ones)=2E > >=20 > > Does the Emacs Info reader implement such solution? >=20 > Emacs itself does, not just in Info=2E The standalone Info reader (part > of the Texinfo package) has a slightly different solution=2E >=20 > > > I was talking about reading NEWS in a general-purpose > text-browsing > > > program, such as Less=2E It is IMO not a good idea to prevent > people > > > from doing that and requiring them to only read NEWS and ChangeLog > > > files in Emacs=2E > >=20 > > When I tried to read NEWS using Less in xterm, I can see all these > > quotes in UTF-8, for example, the quotes in =E2=80=9Clike this=E2=80= =9D=2E >=20 > I guess that's because your text terminal supports UTF-8=2E >=20 > > Every symbol in NEWS quoted by either =E2=80=98straight=E2=80=99 quoti= ng style 'like > this', > > or =E2=80=98grave=E2=80=99 `like this'=2E For example, for > 'electric-quote-replace-double' > > starting Isearch with =E2=80=98M-s =2E=E2=80=99, and repeating the sam= e symbol search > in the > > source code=2E >=20 > I'm asking what us the problem not to use "M-s =2E" in those cases, and > instead to look for the symbol as a literal string=2E I think in a file > like NEWS this shouldn't yield too many false hits=2E Ah, I see I've misunderstood=2E You originally talked about "M-s _", not = about "M-s =2E"=2E Is "M-s =2E" the main/only problem? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 24 15:59:00 2018 Received: (at 31231) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2018 19:59:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38472 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fB45c-0000n2-6z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2018 15:59:00 -0400 Received: from sub3.mail.dreamhost.com ([69.163.253.7]:37830 helo=homiemail-a101.g.dreamhost.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fB45a-0000mu-CL for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2018 15:58:58 -0400 Received: from homiemail-a101.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a101.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E64F117E07C; Tue, 24 Apr 2018 12:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.linkov.net (m91-129-103-238.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.103.238]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jurta@jurta.org) by homiemail-a101.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4244C117E078; Tue, 24 Apr 2018 12:58:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#31231: Symbol search broken in NEWS and ChangeLogs Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83vacjw4dn.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3he7vn4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83sh7mwt2u.fsf@gnu.org> <8736zlznjq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83a7ttwcxx.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 22:16:16 +0300 In-Reply-To: <83a7ttwcxx.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 24 Apr 2018 05:33:30 +0300") Message-ID: <87wowwmn3z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31231 Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> >> But how these text terminals display Unicode quotes in Info manuals= ? >> > >> > Info manuals are displayed by an Info reader, and each Info reader h= as >> > its own solution for this problem (generally, substitution of ASCII >> > characters for undisplayable Unicode ones). >>=20 >> Does the Emacs Info reader implement such solution? > > Emacs itself does, not just in Info. The standalone Info reader (part > of the Texinfo package) has a slightly different solution. Then using the same solution as not just for Info, Emacs will automatical= ly substitute ASCII characters for undisplayable Unicode ones in all other places like NEWS and ChangeLogs. >> Every symbol in NEWS quoted by either =E2=80=98straight=E2=80=99 quoti= ng style 'like this', >> or =E2=80=98grave=E2=80=99 `like this'. For example, for 'electric-qu= ote-replace-double' >> starting Isearch with =E2=80=98M-s .=E2=80=99, and repeating the same = symbol search in the >> source code. > > I'm asking what us the problem not to use "M-s ." in those cases, and > instead to look for the symbol as a literal string. I think in a file > like NEWS this shouldn't yield too many false hits. > > Ah, I see I've misunderstood. You originally talked about "M-s _", not= about > "M-s .". > > Is "M-s ." the main/only problem? Not only =E2=80=98M-s .=E2=80=99, more so =E2=80=98M-s _=E2=80=99 where n= either =E2=80=98M-s _ C-M-y=E2=80=99 nor =E2=80=98M-s _ C-M-w=E2=80=99 work when used at the beginning of the = symbol. It's a good habit to use symbol search to search symbols because it reduces the likelihood of errors, so using it should be encouraged in NEWS and ChangeLogs. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 24 22:31:28 2018 Received: (at 31231) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Apr 2018 02:31:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38625 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fBADQ-0001Ml-E1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2018 22:31:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47659) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fBADO-0001MW-AB for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2018 22:31:26 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fBADF-0000h3-Ty for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2018 22:31:21 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:50178) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fBADF-0000gz-Qu; Tue, 24 Apr 2018 22:31:17 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1167 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fBADF-0002uz-9F; Tue, 24 Apr 2018 22:31:17 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2018 05:31:12 +0300 Message-Id: <83wowwuidr.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-reply-to: <87wowwmn3z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Tue, 24 Apr 2018 22:16:16 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#31231: Symbol search broken in NEWS and ChangeLogs References: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83vacjw4dn.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3he7vn4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83sh7mwt2u.fsf@gnu.org> <8736zlznjq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83a7ttwcxx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wowwmn3z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31231 Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 22:16:16 +0300 > > > Emacs itself does, not just in Info. The standalone Info reader (part > > of the Texinfo package) has a slightly different solution. > > Then using the same solution as not just for Info, Emacs will automatically > substitute ASCII characters for undisplayable Unicode ones in all > other places like NEWS and ChangeLogs. You for some reason elided the part where I explained why an Emacs-only solution is unacceptable. > > Is "M-s ." the main/only problem? > > Not only ‘M-s .’, more so ‘M-s _’ where neither ‘M-s _ C-M-y’ > nor ‘M-s _ C-M-w’ work when used at the beginning of the symbol. > > It's a good habit to use symbol search to search symbols because > it reduces the likelihood of errors, so using it should be > encouraged in NEWS and ChangeLogs. I think you are trying to use features that make no sense in text-based modes. Just because the text mentions symbols quoted in some way doesn't yet mean that text is like a program source. Maybe we should have separate (sub)commands for when symbols are mentioned within human-readable text. Tweaking what a word is due to this is a too large hammer, IMO. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 25 11:50:30 2018 Received: (at 31231) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Apr 2018 15:50:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39467 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fBMgg-00015j-2I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2018 11:50:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38286) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fBMge-00015W-Ka for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2018 11:50:28 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fBMgV-00052a-8S for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2018 11:50:23 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:33747) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fBMgU-00052F-KL; Wed, 25 Apr 2018 11:50:18 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1432 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fBMgT-00005n-Pk; Wed, 25 Apr 2018 11:50:18 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2018 18:50:12 +0300 Message-Id: <83tvrzuvyj.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: juri@linkov.net In-reply-to: <83wowwuidr.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Wed, 25 Apr 2018 05:31:12 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#31231: Symbol search broken in NEWS and ChangeLogs References: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83vacjw4dn.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3he7vn4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83sh7mwt2u.fsf@gnu.org> <8736zlznjq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83a7ttwcxx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wowwmn3z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83wowwuidr.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31231 Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2018 05:31:12 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org > > Maybe we should have separate (sub)commands for when symbols are > mentioned within human-readable text. Another possibility would be to redefine what the various "M-s" subcommands do in NEWS and in ChangeLog files. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 25 15:43:00 2018 Received: (at 31231) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Apr 2018 19:43:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39559 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fBQJg-0006PD-Fl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2018 15:43:00 -0400 Received: from sub3.mail.dreamhost.com ([69.163.253.7]:39737 helo=homiemail-a12.g.dreamhost.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fBQJe-0006P1-Mq for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2018 15:42:58 -0400 Received: from homiemail-a12.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a12.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35BCB26206A; Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.linkov.net (m91-129-103-238.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.103.238]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jurta@jurta.org) by homiemail-a12.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 519D9262065; Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:42:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#31231: Symbol search broken in NEWS and ChangeLogs Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83vacjw4dn.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3he7vn4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83sh7mwt2u.fsf@gnu.org> <8736zlznjq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83a7ttwcxx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wowwmn3z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83wowwuidr.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2018 22:38:10 +0300 In-Reply-To: <83wowwuidr.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 25 Apr 2018 05:31:12 +0300") Message-ID: <87muxrmesl.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31231 Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> > Emacs itself does, not just in Info. The standalone Info reader (pa= rt >> > of the Texinfo package) has a slightly different solution. >> >> Then using the same solution as not just for Info, Emacs will automati= cally >> substitute ASCII characters for undisplayable Unicode ones in all >> other places like NEWS and ChangeLogs. > > You for some reason elided the part where I explained why an > Emacs-only solution is unacceptable. You said that using Unicode quotes will make it harder to view the files on text terminals that don't support UTF-8. This means that we have to find another solution. Maybe just removing quote characters is enough= . If not, then modifying the syntax of =E2=80=98'=E2=80=99 to =E2=80=98expr= ession quote=E2=80=99 looks good since it will correctly handle spell-checking words with an apostrophe with this patch that solves the problem for ChangeLogs: diff --git a/lisp/vc/add-log.el b/lisp/vc/add-log.el index 4c64ae1..629470a 100644 --- a/lisp/vc/add-log.el +++ b/lisp/vc/add-log.el @@ -1024,6 +1024,12 @@ change-log-indent (defvar smerge-resolve-function) (defvar copyright-at-end-flag) =20 +(defvar change-log-mode-syntax-table + (let ((st (make-syntax-table))) + (modify-syntax-entry ?' "' " st) + st) + "Syntax table used while in `change-log-mode'.") + ;;;###autoload (define-derived-mode change-log-mode text-mode "Change Log" "Major mode for editing change logs; like Indented Text mode. >> It's a good habit to use symbol search to search symbols because >> it reduces the likelihood of errors, so using it should be >> encouraged in NEWS and ChangeLogs. > > I think you are trying to use features that make no sense in > text-based modes. Just because the text mentions symbols quoted in > some way doesn't yet mean that text is like a program source. NEWS and ChangeLogs are not just conventional prose, they are technical writings with symbol references, so they should be handled exactly the same way as Emacs Info manuals, docstrings and code comments. > Maybe we should have separate (sub)commands for when symbols are > mentioned within human-readable text. Tweaking what a word is due to > this is a too large hammer, IMO. Maybe creating a new minor mode for NEWS files that in addition to modifying the syntax of quotes will also highlight quoted symbols with a special face like is used currently in Info. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 28 16:39:55 2018 Received: (at 31231) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2018 20:39:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42259 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fCWdO-00078D-GQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2018 16:39:55 -0400 Received: from sub3.mail.dreamhost.com ([69.163.253.7]:38805 helo=homiemail-a17.g.dreamhost.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fCWdM-000784-2L for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2018 16:39:52 -0400 Received: from homiemail-a17.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a17.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41F8E2B2074; Sat, 28 Apr 2018 13:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.linkov.net (m91-129-103-238.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.103.238]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jurta@jurta.org) by homiemail-a17.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 638242B206E; Sat, 28 Apr 2018 13:39:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#31231: Symbol search broken in NEWS and ChangeLogs Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83vacjw4dn.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3he7vn4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83sh7mwt2u.fsf@gnu.org> <8736zlznjq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83a7ttwcxx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wowwmn3z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83wowwuidr.fsf@gnu.org> <87muxrmesl.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2018 23:39:25 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87muxrmesl.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Wed, 25 Apr 2018 22:38:10 +0300") Message-ID: <871sezf4le.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > Modifying the syntax of ‘'’ to ‘expression quote’ looks good since it > will correctly handle spell-checking words with an apostrophe with > this patch that solves the problem for ChangeLogs: [...] Content analysis details: (2.8 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [69.163.253.7 listed in list.dnswl.org] 2.8 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_L3 RBL: Low reputation (-3) [69.163.253.7 listed in bl.mailspike.net] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_BL Mailspike blacklisted X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31231 Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > Modifying the syntax of ‘'’ to ‘expression quote’ looks good since it > will correctly handle spell-checking words with an apostrophe with > this patch that solves the problem for ChangeLogs: [...] Content analysis details: (1.8 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 2.8 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_L3 RBL: Low reputation (-3) [69.163.253.7 listed in bl.mailspike.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [69.163.253.7 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_BL Mailspike blacklisted -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager > Modifying the syntax of =E2=80=98'=E2=80=99 to =E2=80=98expression quot= e=E2=80=99 looks good since it > will correctly handle spell-checking words with an apostrophe with > this patch that solves the problem for ChangeLogs: Pushed to master as bcee160. > Maybe creating a new minor mode for NEWS files that in addition > to modifying the syntax of quotes will also highlight quoted symbols > with a special face like is used currently in Info. I'm not sure if implementing such mode just for NEWS is worthwhile enough= . From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 26 09:20:20 2020 Received: (at 31231) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Aug 2020 13:20:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37783 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAvLg-0003a0-GB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 09:20:20 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:55328) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAvLe-0003Zi-G7 for 31231@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 09:20:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=8O5MAj2Id7G0TZ8VA4xmD8t96a+CCWq5Ppi3eI0232U=; b=thvb0Pu6d9YLSNL3haFYPUeqBB 3EtP53C3lu62rr0Ub9hEHDjui22w1fsGCygr/ShRUaCVeo9e98CoVzhirj3c+N89EwtXrV3Ilsdoh XA4rV4JKwo24ZJmHQkX1bQD4YbMRdCWEzNqIH0t0o4Cwa2js4grgpumB/3BYMxzGIuR0=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kAvLS-0005u9-84; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 15:20:12 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#31231: Symbol search broken in NEWS and ChangeLogs References: <87604kqpji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83vacjw4dn.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3he7vn4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83sh7mwt2u.fsf@gnu.org> <8736zlznjq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83a7ttwcxx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wowwmn3z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83wowwuidr.fsf@gnu.org> <87muxrmesl.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <871sezf4le.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Now-Playing: The Soft Pink Truth's _Shall We Go On Sinning So That Grace May Increase_: "Shall We Go On Sinning" Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 15:20:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: <871sezf4le.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Sat, 28 Apr 2018 23:39:25 +0300") Message-ID: <87eentzgqj.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: >> Modifying the syntax of ‘'’ to ‘expression quote’ looks good since it >> will correctly handle spell-checking words with an apostrophe with >> this patch that solves the problem for ChangeL [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31231 Cc: 31231@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Juri Linkov writes: >> Modifying the syntax of =E2=80=98'=E2=80=99 to =E2=80=98expression quote= =E2=80=99 looks good since it >> will correctly handle spell-checking words with an apostrophe with >> this patch that solves the problem for ChangeLogs: > > Pushed to master as bcee160. > >> Maybe creating a new minor mode for NEWS files that in addition >> to modifying the syntax of quotes will also highlight quoted symbols >> with a special face like is used currently in Info. > > I'm not sure if implementing such mode just for NEWS is worthwhile enough. Skimming this thread, it sounds like bcee160 fixed the reported bug? And a mode for NEWS was deemed not worthwhile, so it seems like everything was covered? So I'm closing this bug report. If this is wrong, please reopen. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 26 09:20:27 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Aug 2020 13:20:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37786 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAvLm-0003aK-S4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 09:20:27 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:55344) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAvLl-0003Zy-4s for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 09:20:25 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=NL9cXMbOqbDnsoPs5NdKZUDm6lxwfmMUfHQJkry5h44=; b=maFWU9ppF4S4MA2botvQiGtTQz nmi6bjRSAry95FD3xqgT1aGqUIyOGHxksF5kxxc2h87+1+vYDHpf91bFW4XMcJBLQHzkzQOHiN/XQ +zV1Fr2yOYfPx2Xz3Xbil8gihSZyOrUtzNw6LNDmf8wiYWa9fd0gaDwq0TSNhoidEk+k=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kAvLd-0005uJ-DI for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 15:20:19 +0200 Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 15:20:16 +0200 Message-Id: <87d03dzgq7.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #31231 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 31231 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) close 31231 quit From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:58:31 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2020 11:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator