From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 11 10:46:17 2018 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Apr 2018 14:46:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46343 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f6H0q-0006Iw-RI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:46:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42590) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f6H0n-0006Ih-DW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:46:13 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f6H0h-0002Wh-5l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:46:08 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:43211) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f6H0h-0002WK-36 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:46:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33503) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f6H0d-0007Pb-1a for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:46:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f6H0a-0002L2-E0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:46:03 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:56726) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f6H0a-0002I7-4J for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:46:00 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w3BEjq5K106274 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 14:45:57 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2017-10-26; bh=DIuVqPUWk9dlU/rTgdo7u7V+++0GWbAgLnOkkCFUb6I=; b=vNvlGtA468KqPTx2vNczFO5gi4FKKJ8IQ7SuA2nmgQF6eqrzxpmU+QhS9xAIFNcsCY7S 9+wK0nU3H7WCw1IwxKTpg1eBGYzhTSIxpBiHKAjCZE6gCEJAGXTwXVL1gxyPVfHWN+Pd svvbbfKlgqJ5K/LYrzoRMuCX7odYoD9f0HW7OrRPc4En1dIZwUWSz86cbf8yUgE+fIte 7YsYBwAiDrPCkoQaNn7e/3whrVWNv1c9uj/u2Jt4ALeeFxuEOyYJld7c2Xm39ilMAA87 z1at0MAIfc1E7EJI6+TaPgNooKEyK3ScO5ErUQKi7pdwXG4ZOkDddjKAGUEcg2SpW0L7 VQ== Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2h6ne7fm1w-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 14:45:57 +0000 Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w3BEjuTk024154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 14:45:56 GMT Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w3BEjtUw030124 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 14:45:55 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <57ad2ae3-cfe5-4fca-a503-e106658d3e38@default> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 07:45:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 26; (emacs) `Highlight Interactively' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4678.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8859 signatures=668698 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=1 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=832 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1804110139 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) In the Emacs manual, `i symbol TAB' shows `Highlight Interactively' as a place where symbols are mentioned. They are, via `highlight-symbol-at-point'. This perhaps the only place in the Emacs manual where symbols are mentioned. 1. It seems (?), by tracking backward through `highlight-symbol-at-point' and then (thing-at-point 'symbol), that `highlight-symbol-at-point' is about highlighting Lisp symbols, not text that has characters with symbol-constituent syntax. If so, it would be helpful for the doc of `highlight-symbol*' to specifically say "Lisp symbol". 2. Assuming that it is in fact about Lisp symbols, please consider adding a link in (emacs) `Highlight Interactively' to (elisp) `Symbols', so readers of the Emacs manual can more easily discover something about Lisp symbols. In GNU Emacs 26.1 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2018-04-10 Repository revision: c267421647510319d2a70554e42f0d1c394dba0a Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 11 12:49:39 2018 Received: (at 31125) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Apr 2018 16:49:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46392 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f6IwF-0000pq-H1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 12:49:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55239) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f6IwD-0000pc-FP for 31125@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 12:49:37 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f6Iw5-0002Ye-2J for 31125@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 12:49:32 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:45982) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f6Iw4-0002YV-V5; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 12:49:28 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2506 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1f6Iw4-0005nf-Fp; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 12:49:28 -0400 Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:49:39 +0300 Message-Id: <83efjl3cyk.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <57ad2ae3-cfe5-4fca-a503-e106658d3e38@default> (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 11 Apr 2018 07:45:54 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#31125: 26; (emacs) `Highlight Interactively' References: <57ad2ae3-cfe5-4fca-a503-e106658d3e38@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31125 Cc: 31125@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 07:45:54 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > > In the Emacs manual, `i symbol TAB' shows `Highlight Interactively' as a > place where symbols are mentioned. They are, via > `highlight-symbol-at-point'. This perhaps the only place in the Emacs > manual where symbols are mentioned. No, there's also "symbol search", shown after I type TAB in the above recipe. > 1. It seems (?), by tracking backward through `highlight-symbol-at-point' > and then (thing-at-point 'symbol), that `highlight-symbol-at-point' is > about highlighting Lisp symbols, not text that has characters with > symbol-constituent syntax. If so, it would be helpful for the doc of > `highlight-symbol*' to specifically say "Lisp symbol". No, it isn't only about Lisp. I just tried this command in a buffer whose major mode is C, and it works there as I'd expect. Why did you decide that it was only about Lisp symbols? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 11 15:41:20 2018 Received: (at 31125) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Apr 2018 19:41:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46517 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f6LcO-0004r0-2E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 15:41:20 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:50042) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f6LcM-0004qn-DB for 31125@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 15:41:18 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w3BJenak174330; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:41:12 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2017-10-26; bh=CiFLz7YLwPVLZLA37PuSM1L4e+oClFFk2g8kHE8hS2M=; b=FZ7YGHhH0yj9ohwVk7m+C5f5qUKpz7B7MMZVSt7OmhUWNWDw42dy1lPk1w/rqYEfkGV1 EsAf0S4RRKl4sIBkCjX8/q2bYoNPNK6NBirzE42s7OAVWjSy6sT9vhda5ULXvrfuzLna zARrgfmgmboUx2W47YVO7rt/IHWjCjEGiODnhINfN1G7V3OCiATFssVpGGh4OW6dM+v4 KVLxHIGv4IEa37GDqbnSQsqkBQ27Fv8uow0sRDiSszoNrDHXpVtiEgf85K1y3RpwxurO 9f3MPdbL42g3BVZZfWAD9MkPCa1Ym7MBzAX1paH3ymG/QgXr7WP3IPWVhzrQAxLXleHd oA== Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2h6pn4rr39-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:41:12 +0000 Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w3BJfBgu028203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:41:11 GMT Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w3BJfAs5005214; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:41:11 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5b84d18a-5781-4ab9-8593-5db385574556@default> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 12:41:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#31125: 26; (emacs) `Highlight Interactively' References: <<57ad2ae3-cfe5-4fca-a503-e106658d3e38@default>> <<83efjl3cyk.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83efjl3cyk.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4678.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8860 signatures=668698 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=714 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1804110182 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31125 Cc: 31125@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > > 1. It seems (?), by tracking backward through `highlight-symbol-at- > point' > > and then (thing-at-point 'symbol), that `highlight-symbol-at-point' is > > about highlighting Lisp symbols, not text that has characters with > > symbol-constituent syntax. If so, it would be helpful for the doc of > > `highlight-symbol*' to specifically say "Lisp symbol". >=20 > No, it isn't only about Lisp. I just tried this command in a buffer > whose major mode is C, and it works there as I'd expect. > Why did you decide that it was only about Lisp symbols? My bad. You can close this bug. (It does somehow seem to bad that someone can read the entire Emacs manual without knowing anything about Lisp symbols, including that there is such a critter.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 11 22:28:23 2018 Received: (at 31125-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2018 02:28:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46898 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f6RyI-00078U-SM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 22:28:23 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50198) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f6RyF-00078G-HT for 31125-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 22:28:19 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f6Ry7-0004o1-8O for 31125-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 22:28:14 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55927) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f6Ry7-0004nv-4X; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 22:28:11 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3180 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1f6Ry6-0001s7-Fp; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 22:28:10 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 05:28:23 +0300 Message-Id: <83a7u92m60.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <5b84d18a-5781-4ab9-8593-5db385574556@default> (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 11 Apr 2018 12:41:09 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#31125: 26; (emacs) `Highlight Interactively' References: <<57ad2ae3-cfe5-4fca-a503-e106658d3e38@default>> <<83efjl3cyk.fsf@gnu.org>> <5b84d18a-5781-4ab9-8593-5db385574556@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31125-done Cc: 31125-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 12:41:09 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 31125@debbugs.gnu.org > > > No, it isn't only about Lisp. I just tried this command in a buffer > > whose major mode is C, and it works there as I'd expect. > > Why did you decide that it was only about Lisp symbols? > > My bad. You can close this bug. Done. > (It does somehow seem to bad that someone can read the > entire Emacs manual without knowing anything about > Lisp symbols, including that there is such a critter.) Actually, "Symbol Search", which is where you get if you select "symbol search" from the completion list popped up by "i search TAB", does try to tell what is a symbol in language-independent terms. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 12 00:38:01 2018 Received: (at 31125-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2018 04:38:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46933 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f6Tzl-0001ew-0a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 00:38:01 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:60026) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f6Tzk-0001ek-0f for 31125-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 00:38:00 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w3C4aNsA084094; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 04:37:54 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2017-10-26; bh=sA9uqg0LkoxBh3auWyMgzN4NxqOONAZd8qRAwxMkspU=; b=DTAJwPrkqlfPavYt8035sYeOV85cuLQcJxJV2YOw0gHI1FnAc2Qmv9lGIwM5mQUV/Nmw MELOgDgLhcyZxUjseRtlaAWUUgF9aoxBGIWDfZTW9pS4cTbKP8vKPPdwuTO48Ir9kSTl WrN9HabbF82hywb+kxceQbOwCe568yozxp67Hi0L2ihdjLXruWe3Rrmp+76rNMWw8qIx QIppEohrKZjtRsV6xlw4fIK2goTq/gXsCAVKK1nTuwgCVqtts9juKc5tHQcjoZKT/S5+ Guin3M1YssLdzmoY/WOvnIOS549bLqvd+K3bpjmb9KjX0O4jq4XFOcKU8xZHSBFyu6RR dg== Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2h6ne7j6mb-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 12 Apr 2018 04:37:54 +0000 Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w3C4bq3l025466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 12 Apr 2018 04:37:53 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w3C4bqDL011491; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 04:37:52 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <128680b7-eb89-42ec-9013-a99120d6d8f8@default> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 21:37:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#31125: 26; (emacs) `Highlight Interactively' References: <<<57ad2ae3-cfe5-4fca-a503-e106658d3e38@default>>> <<<83efjl3cyk.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<5b84d18a-5781-4ab9-8593-5db385574556@default>> <<83a7u92m60.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83a7u92m60.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4678.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8860 signatures=668698 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=650 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1804120046 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31125-done Cc: 31125-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > > (It does somehow seem to bad that someone can read the > > entire Emacs manual without knowing anything about > > Lisp symbols, including that there is such a critter.) >=20 > Actually, "Symbol Search", which is where you get if you select > "symbol search" from the completion list popped up by "i search TAB", > does try to tell what is a symbol in language-independent terms. Yes, I'm aware of that. And that additional, syntactic meaning of "symbol" in Emacs jargon has little-to-nothing to do with Lisp symbols. A reader won't learn anything about Lisp symbols by reading that node. On the contrary: s?he will instead mislearn something untrue that suggests it is about Lisp symbols but is not. A Lisp symbol is not just "a source code token", nor are Lisp-mode "source code tokens" necessarily Lisp symbols. Using `forward-symbol' or "symbol search" in Lisp does not move across or find Lisp symbols. =20 It's too bad that Emacs chose to appropriate the term "symbol" for that other, essentially unrelated meaning. But it did. It's a shame because Lisp is something really important to Emacs, and so to Emacs users. And symbols are something important to Lisp. This is what Lisp symbols are about (though they have additional characteristics): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol_(programming) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 12 07:38:07 2018 Received: (at 31125) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2018 11:38:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47154 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f6aYI-0000vW-0U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 07:38:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40747) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f6aYG-0000uu-1V for 31125@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 07:38:04 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f6aY7-0008Nm-Or for 31125@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 07:37:58 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:34576) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f6aY7-0008NT-Ln; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 07:37:55 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3562 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1f6aY6-0000r6-Up; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 07:37:55 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 14:38:08 +0300 Message-Id: <83zi281wpr.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <128680b7-eb89-42ec-9013-a99120d6d8f8@default> (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 11 Apr 2018 21:37:50 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#31125: 26; (emacs) `Highlight Interactively' References: <<<57ad2ae3-cfe5-4fca-a503-e106658d3e38@default>>> <<<83efjl3cyk.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<5b84d18a-5781-4ab9-8593-5db385574556@default>> <<83a7u92m60.fsf@gnu.org>> <128680b7-eb89-42ec-9013-a99120d6d8f8@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31125 Cc: 31125@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 21:37:50 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 31125-done@debbugs.gnu.org > > Yes, I'm aware of that. And that additional, syntactic > meaning of "symbol" in Emacs jargon has little-to-nothing > to do with Lisp symbols. > > A reader won't learn anything about Lisp symbols by > reading that node. On the contrary: s?he will instead > mislearn something untrue that suggests it is about Lisp > symbols but is not. > > A Lisp symbol is not just "a source code token", nor are > Lisp-mode "source code tokens" necessarily Lisp symbols. > Using `forward-symbol' or "symbol search" in Lisp does > not move across or find Lisp symbols. > > It's too bad that Emacs chose to appropriate the term > "symbol" for that other, essentially unrelated meaning. > But it did. It's a shame because Lisp is something > really important to Emacs, and so to Emacs users. And > symbols are something important to Lisp. > > This is what Lisp symbols are about (though they have > additional characteristics): > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol_(programming) We were talking about the user manual, where the reader is not necessarily a Lisp programmer. For the latter, see "Symbols" in the ELisp manual. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 12 10:27:47 2018 Received: (at 31125) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2018 14:27:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48014 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f6dCU-0000V9-R5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 10:27:47 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:52582) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f6dCS-0000Uv-EM for 31125@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 10:27:45 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w3CEQ2m0010965; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 14:27:38 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2017-10-26; bh=x63olPcbAhUTreARwcP2uutZsVAGSUoekrrk3YKw7HU=; b=FCGglSo97BUZ2OkThiOwTsJlG3MEI3le7mLSxCGfMrNy97ULYbiuelVAKGHu6d2epzyK OLfvrJFdptG+LoQN6xZR5t5k5EK3LO+4kDRuxPOhKr+Ck7+MP73vNLKT5aSutniAcoL4 dG4kyqI3VhtiSKeL4yD07NTYyaDlAL1mtBcZd4LTYh3ywlbHjh5+Ncrd0yjw5fDRGJm0 htLsWqoFM1mfg6uZjuzYIkUm76eZqna/eX08lkVAAeSaWuvmEK+oitzbAtGCfq6dr6h5 MfDZe4NSvAn6fM0CnmwoDMdCahAvVW1a+UedB35YdT+4nZCRLp3FCJvsZZkhkDh8nTXK Fg== Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2h6ny3m96x-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 12 Apr 2018 14:27:38 +0000 Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w3CERbQv016727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 12 Apr 2018 14:27:37 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w3CERaHd031491; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 14:27:37 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <314419b3-b645-40de-b3cd-be34956a7247@default> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 07:27:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#31125: 26; (emacs) `Highlight Interactively' References: <<<57ad2ae3-cfe5-4fca-a503-e106658d3e38@default>>> <<<83efjl3cyk.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<5b84d18a-5781-4ab9-8593-5db385574556@default>> <<83a7u92m60.fsf@gnu.org>> <128680b7-eb89-42ec-9013-a99120d6d8f8@default> <83zi281wpr.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83zi281wpr.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4678.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8860 signatures=668698 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=634 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1804120144 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 31125 Cc: 31125@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > We were talking about the user manual, where the reader is not > necessarily a Lisp programmer. For the latter, see "Symbols" > in the ELisp manual. You replied to my parenthetical remark after I said that this bug can be closed, which was precisely about the fact that the Emacs manual does not say anything about Lisp symbols: (It does somehow seem to[o] bad that someone can read the entire Emacs manual without knowing anything about Lisp symbols, including that there is such a critter.) This particular discussion is not related to the bug report, and it is exactly about the fact that the Emacs manual does (too) little to guide users toward Lisp. And some knowledge of Lisp is the single most important aid and guide a user can have, to improve her experience and use of Emacs. This discussion is irrelevant to my (misguided) bug report. But it is not irrelevant to the user manual. A reader of the Emacs manual should not _need_ to know Lisp to be able to read the manual. But that doesn't mean the manual should keep completely clear of Lisp. It could help, I think, for it to occasionally point out some connections that can be helpful for users. From unknown Mon Aug 18 09:06:36 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator