From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:33:14 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#30978 <30978@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#30978 <30978@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 25.3; Suggestion: define-minor-mode should define mode-lighter variable Reply-To: bug#30978 <30978@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 18:33:14 +0000 retitle 30978 25.3; Suggestion: define-minor-mode should define mode-lighte= r variable reassign 30978 emacs submitter 30978 Howard Melman severity 30978 wishlist tag 30978 moreinfo wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 28 16:12:08 2018 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Mar 2018 20:12:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57690 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f1HQW-0000L6-9k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 16:12:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42605) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f1HQU-0000Kd-TE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 16:12:07 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f1HQO-0006VG-R9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 16:12:01 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:60852) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f1HQO-0006V8-NK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 16:12:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33554) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f1HQN-0006Xq-M1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 16:12:00 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f1HQI-0006TB-JK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 16:11:59 -0400 Received: from mail-qk0-x232.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c09::232]:40804) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f1HQI-0006Sx-EM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 16:11:54 -0400 Received: by mail-qk0-x232.google.com with SMTP id o64so3759856qkl.7 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 13:11:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:message-id:date :to; bh=FPNODmOT/vGIgAcT8UUa3gaJy8xpgLVaZAVED7Lk3AM=; b=pQk/I3Y9TCW8QjFru1FFRbunydRvtSGxRJDetsugPvZPMOGz1S1/AZd2EgUUYbEeen m51dOCiBUYNtLH3tk28XtB9Pz+fBGCVHsvgXkZ68YJILtjpnkK1hdKTeUjzkIxyIA8Zy sdX5AM7CShs/6TA2fRkyGdOsurS7pganG/AD+nuTWO+OZHZUnQiBxo7x0qgDmEBbzBmk WBAVXuaW35QM/tuMosKUYP+gk/edv2/AegwULBTbkZPhFaj3//UABgtqgrQ6OCQN3S09 jJB7gPi/jDkfsk0j1QGVXe4jHMyCofUQ7AnVK9T6HOReXObWeVYU4Wbeqhsi80UGusLf gMag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:message-id:date:to; bh=FPNODmOT/vGIgAcT8UUa3gaJy8xpgLVaZAVED7Lk3AM=; b=Xc8qmduiJ0HDKotGI+rjZ5qixc5ckTzrlRJUTbChnLqhth5vZUw9ee+cCy9IxX29ID ZGdWgpI5Xi/MjDGybj1NxkWbBZSta7TVOPqpAA2bm96qBzESc33r2IBdgxcd2YsGN0qN pb1wXjDroHln4zdZ+3uWHh6IjnmbpKShsLcQop8CaEo28972oTYtVwKxTrBrFC7ZRSvH OC/9uCTWhW0pbryZef5aiR8kOpDpUrSRBr5yGjf2paxdYPxlFRzyOxQk4TWHLZ582DMh k04mCo1KmVFwILKyXlmMAQKizwpTmf4iuPy8XJjvzzco7f8k2QlDY7TkP08XgWT5B6BL l9dg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tAzSsjunW1UrZb8F0NruEWQY64n2QlmOwC6KD4bc/n31Mz0Zgs5 f7cs4tNa7AmYrIDduPW+sQ92kLiN X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4+RWSLtgBh9g0DfPPnflbWMMHhv/NgkJufQZwMhg5DJvQvSL8BhJuAAvrTPBrylaPv+RlskLw== X-Received: by 10.55.215.16 with SMTP id m16mr6932123qki.303.1522267913747; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 13:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lumet.home (pool-108-26-190-50.bstnma.fios.verizon.net. [108.26.190.50]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o38sm3358299qko.82.2018.03.28.13.11.53 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 28 Mar 2018 13:11:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Howard Melman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: 25.3; Suggestion: define-minor-mode should define mode-lighter variable Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 16:11:52 -0400 To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Some packages define a user option to let users configure the lighter string used in the mode-line, but some just use a hard coded string. Packages such as diminish, delight and dim exist to help customize these. The define-minor-mode macro creates keymaps and other things to help mode authors follow conventions. If it created a mode-lighter user option when passed in a string (and not a symbol) then users would have an easier time configuring their mode-line without having to find and install a package to do so. Howard In GNU Emacs 25.3.3 (x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0, Carbon Version 157 = AppKit 1265.21) of 2017-09-28 built on Atago.local From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 14 09:40:42 2019 Received: (at 30978) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jul 2019 13:40:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44024 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hmek5-00031C-MI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jul 2019 09:40:41 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:52044) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hmek4-000315-Ju for 30978@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jul 2019 09:40:40 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hmek1-0002gy-14; Sun, 14 Jul 2019 15:40:39 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Howard Melman Subject: Re: bug#30978: 25.3; Suggestion: define-minor-mode should define mode-lighter variable References: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2019 15:40:36 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Howard Melman's message of "Wed, 28 Mar 2018 16:11:52 -0400") Message-ID: <874l3ou42z.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Howard Melman writes: > Some packages define a user option to let users configure > the lighter string used in the mode-line, but some just use > a hard coded string. Packages such as diminish, delight and > dim exist to h [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30978 Cc: 30978@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Howard Melman writes: > Some packages define a user option to let users configure > the lighter string used in the mode-line, but some just use > a hard coded string. Packages such as diminish, delight and > dim exist to help customize these. > > The define-minor-mode macro creates keymaps and other things > to help mode authors follow conventions. If it created a > mode-lighter user option when passed in a string (and not a > symbol) then users would have an easier time configuring > their mode-line without having to find and install a package > to do so. I think this makes sense -- define-minor-mode would define a buffer-local variable, I guess, that the users could set to change the lighter? Like... `FOO-mode-lighter' or something? Any opinions? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 23 08:23:03 2020 Received: (at 30978) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Aug 2020 12:23:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52226 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9p1b-00065g-DL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Aug 2020 08:23:03 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:46030) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9p1Z-00064y-TD for 30978@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Aug 2020 08:23:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=TWdH+MApfItBOQajSJhn3r0Q9L1nPK/hRdvNgJ4ZCng=; b=mCE7oWp5awTo1LGzturnJIxQOh W4QkdLwNm8VFnELLxIofcuak3PUP+Qo9ygpC0j7qITKUga/Pid4og2dwiZZgukn1JwdaInOg60Ggj fotGG+bCToBUWDlXKHZWlkaLnLDvYdVYrLLJNFMEzn93fhM3DiGxRXPiUe9RmDrp/mEw=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k9p1Q-0006L7-VR; Sun, 23 Aug 2020 14:22:55 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#30978: 25.3; Suggestion: define-minor-mode should define mode-lighter variable References: <874l3ou42z.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEUeFBRcMCGqWTDZ lGD////llHMYAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+QIFwwVKcCiUM8AAAG9SURBVDjLbVSLscQg CBQrAGwgYAMv0n9vb1GT3I/J3CSufHaBK6UUSeOSRkIi5YfhhvovgIjryT+R0sZvQJp8ATOrd/vM 3iI9PManQwQn0M/1We/oEccEbOVwETwqSuuk953Cuw+HGTVKoJ2vXN2FKTQBeimWplI1uuHjm121 dizuHzzq8LxtGe3NrfoE8jrTm0puD/DmEkeWIDhUsec+r5xgytTd7mPZlYJW0b7quIvnSak4BFbb bXvhCqIRG0jiKwc06JAoVnZywRCQYBSQwlBAXYC6WGrJmaGGx7GKQTY1zZ4wYjakGDbLoWFueZp+ ANImUF0XkH6I6yOCVmuaWvZEJzs008cWS3XOcs42Wh19/E0Aoi3aQPE+XOOQBWzHCXT0v69qmejY AgCoYTrK5MfaeVeR4veRBCeAaa3rDQcg28saeIkTI3IBdYq/Qocz5OJL5rsJFH6qzzHMn2c5CUXU VGN2PpW/PY78tCSCp54PMITUJyCD6AGgGtqZ4cGCwff2sCJrPgs143uoyUzQ9r0uh5V2DagfJNeE UbtkgGFhKJm3XGQd90izWsqaa5ux3O6t2jdq5F7S/vf5B1KKMiP0fugcAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNy ZWF0ZQAyMDIwLTA4LTIzVDEyOjIxOjQxKzAwOjAwkAnczgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAy MC0wOC0yM1QxMjoyMTo0MSswMDowMOFUZHIAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: The Stooges's _The Stooges_: "1969" Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2020 14:22:51 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sat, 22 Aug 2020 21:24:13 -0400") Message-ID: <87sgcdft5w.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: >> I think this makes sense -- define-minor-mode would define a >> buffer-local variable, I guess, that the users could set to change the >> lighter? >> >> Like... `FOO-mode-lighter' or something? Any [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30978 Cc: 30978@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: >> I think this makes sense -- define-minor-mode would define a >> buffer-local variable, I guess, that the users could set to change the >> lighter? >> >> Like... `FOO-mode-lighter' or something? Any opinions? > > Yes, it sounds like a good idea. > > I'm not sure why you propose that it should be buffer-local though. > Wouldn't one want to configure this globally by default? Hm... yes, a global variable makes more sense. I was thinking that somebody would want a different lighter in different buffers, but that does sound rather unlikely. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 25 10:28:03 2021 Received: (at 30978) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jun 2021 14:28:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46540 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lwmoN-0001ru-2X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 10:28:03 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:45210) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lwmoL-0001rP-Fx for 30978@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 10:28:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=58V3EaIDQN+jMJb89ioOIqHBX4SlCZaCXQlmrA/6TJ8=; b=ePglZKfBUaQ6QdIEgQfO3cQpDs Axbe5hXFyQhQpVvUofYoJ56rRaVsQ69uMe/NWQDT2dd7W7maxt3n4/iWncqnvgx2rmj5UBRfJj1aS olmjj1vSTW2f6xtjCPHMDgLmORE48X6Ttb3skkBB0ZjOoNR98ELIYYIdWijOY94qF1N0=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lwmoB-0006u9-Nm; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 16:27:54 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#30978: 25.3; Suggestion: define-minor-mode should define mode-lighter variable References: <874l3ou42z.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87sgcdft5w.fsf@gnus.org> X-Now-Playing: Tom Robinson's _North by Northwest_: "In The Cold" Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 16:27:51 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87sgcdft5w.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 23 Aug 2020 14:22:51 +0200") Message-ID: <87pmwadno8.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >>> I think this makes sense -- define-minor-mode would define a >>> buffer-local variable, I guess, that the users could set to change the >>> lighter? >>> >>> Like... `FOO-mode-lighter' or something [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30978 Cc: 30978@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >>> I think this makes sense -- define-minor-mode would define a >>> buffer-local variable, I guess, that the users could set to change the >>> lighter? >>> >>> Like... `FOO-mode-lighter' or something? Any opinions? >> >> Yes, it sounds like a good idea. >> >> I'm not sure why you propose that it should be buffer-local though. >> Wouldn't one want to configure this globally by default? > > Hm... yes, a global variable makes more sense. I was thinking that > somebody would want a different lighter in different buffers, but that > does sound rather unlikely. Does anybody else have an opinion here? The suggestion is to make define-minor-mode define a `foo-mode-lighter' variable that users can then change to easily change the lighters. Or do we have a separate mechanism for this somewhere? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 25 18:57:29 2021 Received: (at 30978) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jun 2021 22:57:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46916 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lwulN-0003r8-LT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 18:57:29 -0400 Received: from smtp-2.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.43]:40031) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lwulK-0003qv-GS for 30978@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 18:57:28 -0400 Received: from [10.253.37.70] (port=27872 helo=webmail.orcon.net.nz) by smtp-2.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lwul7-000263-FI; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 10:57:14 +1200 Received: from ip-116-251-162-85.kinect.net.nz ([116.251.162.85]) via [10.253.37.253] by webmail.orcon.net.nz with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Sat, 26 Jun 2021 10:57:13 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 10:57:13 +1200 From: Phil Sainty To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#30978: 25.3; Suggestion: define-minor-mode should define mode-lighter variable In-Reply-To: <87pmwadno8.fsf@gnus.org> References: <874l3ou42z.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87sgcdft5w.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmwadno8.fsf@gnus.org> Message-ID: <97892e0eebeeff0413287058d68ad86b@webmail.orcon.net.nz> X-Sender: psainty@orcon.net.nz User-Agent: Orcon Webmail X-GeoIP: -- X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30978 Cc: 30978@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas , Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2021-06-26 02:27, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Does anybody else have an opinion here? The suggestion is to make > define-minor-mode define a `foo-mode-lighter' variable that users can > then change to easily change the lighters. It sounds like a good change. > Or do we have a separate mechanism for this somewhere? We do in GNU ELPA (see https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DelightedModes regarding the one I wrote, delight.el), but that and similar libraries mostly exist because there wasn't something as trivial as a variable to set. Delight also takes care of synchronising the label in `mode-line-menu' (down-mouse-3 on `mode-line-modes'), as well as allowing custom names for major modes via the same UI -- but providing an easy way to set minor mode lighters was the actual reason for writing it. -Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 26 08:51:27 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jun 2021 12:51:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47268 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lx7mQ-0003VN-NW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 08:51:26 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:55460) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lx7mD-0003Uq-DB for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 08:51:25 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=3YqWx8cIPyuMQSczJOI02Al7jgzaB0hJAfZpJkd5lC8=; b=bueEzJwVz80kNhkEhWis2IF3qP 25bP+6bdelHIcwq9L//xbyBleFb60ijJaqBVmL20OAeZggt9+muRqTpMEw90HPTY7pxiLZ7Sgwqpb 0zGPzi3aJdMbgAxlSWK7SMOmzdfoZ/bC9lVFo5QfRxAKCrJXn7U4RXL5JetyZil9FGDo=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lx7m6-0002Ca-0S for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 14:51:07 +0200 Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 14:51:05 +0200 Message-Id: <87im20bxhi.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #30978 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 30978 + moreinfo quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 30978 + moreinfo quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 25 03:59:51 2021 Received: (at 30978) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2021 07:59:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47530 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m7Z38-0008Fq-VZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 03:59:51 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:42140) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m7Z36-0008FT-75 for 30978@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 03:59:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=YEfPFEvJm4zUkmQcYcbEzP8bl/CrQXJYpQYqAzoFaoc=; b=rOXUJEJejLdIVfdcIqlNT3h+tJ /uveyL3WA6uFLDZrIdlSod6ALcV+g3zYMVcuPIRWbVpPYB6SaRi7Z1fUQYGY+8pemmnuIOZw2Wem7 vL33B4OJrEQVKyl4kzfiJxMfyhZH43k5D3ENexhjVG7/EYKWq/wN6iJb/UpfFI7RQl8Q=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m7Z2t-0006ob-CC; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 09:59:39 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Phil Sainty Subject: Re: bug#30978: 25.3; Suggestion: define-minor-mode should define mode-lighter variable References: <874l3ou42z.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87sgcdft5w.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmwadno8.fsf@gnus.org> <97892e0eebeeff0413287058d68ad86b@webmail.orcon.net.nz> X-Now-Playing: Bobbie Gentry's _The Girl From Chickasaw County (6): Fancy_: "Wedding Bell Blues (Alternate Take)" Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 09:59:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: <97892e0eebeeff0413287058d68ad86b@webmail.orcon.net.nz> (Phil Sainty's message of "Sat, 26 Jun 2021 10:57:13 +1200") Message-ID: <87r1fmx1qx.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Phil Sainty writes: >> Does anybody else have an opinion here? The suggestion is to make >> define-minor-mode define a `foo-mode-lighter' variable that users can >> then change to easily change the lighters. > > It sound [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30978 Cc: Stefan Kangas , 30978@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Phil Sainty writes: >> Does anybody else have an opinion here? The suggestion is to make >> define-minor-mode define a `foo-mode-lighter' variable that users can >> then change to easily change the lighters. > > It sounds like a good change. I just can't make up my mind here. On the one hand, a `foo-mode-lighter' variable would make things easy and regular. On the other hand, it means creating a new user option for each minor mode (i.e., a defcustom), and it means having these in `minor-mode-alist', which means one additional variable lookup (per minor mode) when creating the mode line. >> Or do we have a separate mechanism for this somewhere? > > We do in GNU ELPA (see https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DelightedModes > regarding the one I wrote, delight.el), but that and similar libraries > mostly exist because there wasn't something as trivial as a variable > to set. > > Delight also takes care of synchronising the label in `mode-line-menu' > (down-mouse-3 on `mode-line-modes'), as well as allowing custom names > for major modes via the same UI -- but providing an easy way to set > minor mode lighters was the actual reason for writing it. It sounds like delight is the right solution here -- it's a more complete solution, and people who want this can just install your package... So... on the whole... I think we shouldn't add the -lighter variables. So I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 25 03:59:51 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2021 07:59:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47532 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m7Z39-0008Ft-Ce for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 03:59:51 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:42152) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m7Z37-0008FY-R5 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 03:59:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=BOkbRvtduBLQomDjZONgkMkBmr038plTj+YcXhXYNAQ=; b=dftuf/zV2Wt/4Bu6MGmaeZVHK5 5qOgwhRrx/Ac80K+XviSRnjMHTIrdAGuz89IWdduIcE0DIVugfIyl7kueYudlfIHCMWuFDkwp1vsE Hm4Eicb1ly82FkxVbgVZlaRz3aTjdCkso7mIaDlU1mvweKkbOhufmi7CDCHSe5Cjozpg=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m7Z30-0006oi-6t for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 09:59:44 +0200 Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 09:59:41 +0200 Message-Id: <87pmv6x1qq.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #30978 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 30978 wontfix close 30978 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 30978 wontfix close 30978 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 25 12:43:42 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2021 16:43:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49269 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m7hE6-0000sz-8K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 12:43:42 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:36882) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m7hE2-0000sp-2t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 12:43:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55938) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m7hE1-0000CH-Qt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 12:43:37 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:51334) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m7hDz-0008I4-Pt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 12:43:37 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m7hDx-0002BY-6y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 18:43:33 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Howard Melman Subject: Re: bug#30978: 25.3; Suggestion: define-minor-mode should define mode-lighter variable Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 12:43:25 -0400 Message-ID: References: <874l3ou42z.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87sgcdft5w.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmwadno8.fsf@gnus.org> <97892e0eebeeff0413287058d68ad86b@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <87r1fmx1qx.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:NNgxMjXcnYQRqht3UPFdvWIVvx8= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Phil Sainty writes: > >>> Does anybody else have an opinion here? The suggestion is to make >>> define-minor-mode define a `foo-mode-lighter' variable that users can >>> then change to easily change the lighters. >> >> It sounds like a good change. > > I just can't make up my mind here. On the one hand, a > `foo-mode-lighter' variable would make things easy and regular. On the > other hand, it means creating a new user option for each minor mode > (i.e., a defcustom), and it means having these in `minor-mode-alist', > which means one additional variable lookup (per minor mode) when > creating the mode line. Thanks for considering this. If the performance impact of having these variables in minor-mode-alist is significant, then fine. Otherwise IMHO "easy and regular" clearly outweighs having more defcustoms (which seems better to me anyway, I could use completion to see all the lighter strings). >>> Or do we have a separate mechanism for this somewhere? >> >> We do in GNU ELPA (see https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DelightedModes >> regarding the one I wrote, delight.el), but that and similar libraries >> mostly exist because there wasn't something as trivial as a variable >> to set. >> >> Delight also takes care of synchronising the label in `mode-line-menu' >> (down-mouse-3 on `mode-line-modes'), as well as allowing custom names >> for major modes via the same UI -- but providing an easy way to set >> minor mode lighters was the actual reason for writing it. > > It sounds like delight is the right solution here -- it's a more > complete solution, and people who want this can just install your > package... > > So... on the whole... I think we shouldn't add the -lighter > variables. So I'm closing this bug report. I agree that packages like delight, dim and diminish (and I just learned about blackout) mostly exist because there wasn't a "trivial" or "easy and regular" way to do this and don't see how they're "more complete" than the proposal.. If the packages are the way to go, maybe one could be included in emacs? They've been around for several years (diminish since '98). As it stands now, a user that just wants to eliminate something like " ElDoc" or " ws" from their modeline won't find the answer in the documentation. If they look for a package to do this even the package descriptions as they appear in list-packages don't have a common keyword to search for: blackout Better mode lighter overriding delight A dimmer switch for your lighter text dim Change mode-line names of major/minor modes diminish Diminished modes are minor modes with no modeline display So they will have to do an internet search and then evaluate which of 3 or 4 packages they want to use. It's certainly not "easy or regular". -- Howard From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 28 11:31:39 2021 Received: (at 30978) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2021 15:31:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55642 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m8lX0-0005gZ-SI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 11:31:39 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49050) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m8lWz-0005bN-Mc for 30978@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 11:31:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Av0xLHgMwObUV7mu/kX5nsYPtbD/MfdEvz6kZqacWxU=; b=GSzejhNAcB2uGyrGAopyhGx3Qu ArjrII5Bm5Bs8DPXRFULkKA4R65PR5TklwO13xR87J0r5dVhBCBt/KcP1UD+ok5cPY+4TU2JqUKOI dAXuP+fd10Bc8zGQShz/DdbLAr7pFve0Sic0QmVTN7o/Oc428cp5NB7aYHNpNagm701Q=; Received: from 2.149.45.105.tmi.telenormobil.no ([2.149.45.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m8lWr-0000zK-8s; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 17:31:31 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Howard Melman Subject: Re: bug#30978: 25.3; Suggestion: define-minor-mode should define mode-lighter variable References: <874l3ou42z.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87sgcdft5w.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmwadno8.fsf@gnus.org> <97892e0eebeeff0413287058d68ad86b@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <87r1fmx1qx.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 17:31:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Howard Melman's message of "Sun, 25 Jul 2021 12:43:25 -0400") Message-ID: <87o8ambgkw.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Howard Melman writes: > I agree that packages like delight, dim and diminish (and I > just learned about blackout) mostly exist because there > wasn't a "trivial" or "easy and regular" way to do this and > don't see how th [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP 0.0 TVD_RCVD_IP Message was received from an IP address -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30978 Cc: 30978@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Howard Melman writes: > I agree that packages like delight, dim and diminish (and I > just learned about blackout) mostly exist because there > wasn't a "trivial" or "easy and regular" way to do this and > don't see how they're "more complete" than the proposal.. It's already pretty easy to just alter the lighters -- just say: (setcar (cdr (assoc 'foo-mode minor-mode-alist)) "whatever") -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 28 15:10:22 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2021 19:10:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55839 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m8owf-00081D-OE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 15:10:21 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:40816) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m8owd-000815-Ug for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 15:10:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59734) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m8owc-00086L-JL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 15:10:19 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:33056) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m8owa-00076n-6Q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 15:10:18 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m8owW-000ABA-Gs for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 21:10:12 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Howard Melman Subject: Re: bug#30978: 25.3; Suggestion: define-minor-mode should define mode-lighter variable Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 15:10:00 -0400 Message-ID: References: <874l3ou42z.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87sgcdft5w.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmwadno8.fsf@gnus.org> <97892e0eebeeff0413287058d68ad86b@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <87r1fmx1qx.fsf@gnus.org> <87o8ambgkw.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:8yOR3VaGynxDsfZEbcI7BXtPmdo= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.248, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > It's already pretty easy to just alter the lighters -- just say: > > (setcar (cdr (assoc 'foo-mode minor-mode-alist)) "whatever") Maybe include an example of disabling a lighter in the elisp manual (where minor-mode-alist is mentioned). E.g., (setcar (cdr (assoc 'eldoc-mode minor-mode-alist)) "") I realize this is "pretty easy" lisp but it's not a simple setq and I think non-lispers might want to do this. -- Howard From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 28 16:00:58 2021 Received: (at 30978) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2021 20:00:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55909 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m8pje-0000pv-8V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 16:00:58 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f42.google.com ([209.85.221.42]:42976) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m8pjd-0000pe-3l for 30978@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 16:00:57 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f42.google.com with SMTP id j2so3945610wrx.9 for <30978@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 13:00:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=ehcP+KWt0/Df0n10OZSZ7Bpqh8wHFGogdL2y5L0Y96Q=; b=UbhPjvUFfTjDFHjTqyk+S5LBaM+HmfAzppQoq8RtfSEP0D/x4DJ6Ip77ZEx8MxXx94 orsRpvQ16D4G7tfBCLj10ZVestQlMHwYLOiAYeZcYBNl0iXrETt+soN3zYz2ZjNezSMQ 1HMiMNGlURSnYcLztKs/QrODsfzeaRPbFVq/hEMZT1uyLdjJiFYB611+hFpzAWQtDXzE XevqtxEY/AxszRQRRYnAm+bFDqIIGFd2mFt0DTeVS+4vYkD/vu5gAqGSgQ+72VLl3Y1V dhXaqtvA/rGA99EkjysSl84IpF62f/oAOj+vBt8tMqDTB8Q+DUU7dBFmZhlN0dmgmJQc P+uw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=ehcP+KWt0/Df0n10OZSZ7Bpqh8wHFGogdL2y5L0Y96Q=; b=Es3dGf9quGK+1SSUAV21PpnQzHqRyfENo0UPWj/0s9yVowUj8/5looTYi0uidSI3do gGe6fwp7geaA4X5Ym0jt46WVoJk3ybfxl5/QmI43sTWJzKDO7VcxbVT1oW2wiu9xYwsz wKx52nkGl6X5fBM1eCRpLPjPKS9yld8j3I/Tvs85mrYAE4/tweFR/hov2LhO1Bkan01J 058R8HfK/y00S6FnLboV/yIHf7CIheQz9kkWrVEuOn2L9+fvJ5d+Igd0SbtaESI+bRKf gqNT5j0M4Ny6ML2pQqlWgz21pByHHnZIBIwj/H70TSnj2EP/vSrsMbbWOH8FBjDAVuT/ v4bA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530QxdJKZIpgZieihW0EfqtBAeknYNTE8N9Itk8Unrgh4ZRGz/Si o6lHwytJFpM12r3BLaYBiUeNR3/PpYM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxxEqN2PEjJBHkcMrZYHE4tIbBIApHCusQcNpKZYtccJO9MFW9cuq7EPP5DLlHKWGob1lwEkg== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4d0c:: with SMTP id z12mr962156wrt.275.1627502451010; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 13:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amdahl30 ([2a01:e0a:20e:d340:2ef0:5dff:fed2:7b49]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t1sm805537wrm.42.2021.07.28.13.00.49 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 28 Jul 2021 13:00:50 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin_Le_Gouguec?= To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#30978: 25.3; Suggestion: define-minor-mode should define mode-lighter variable References: <874l3ou42z.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87sgcdft5w.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmwadno8.fsf@gnus.org> <97892e0eebeeff0413287058d68ad86b@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <87r1fmx1qx.fsf@gnus.org> <87o8ambgkw.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:00:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87o8ambgkw.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Wed, 28 Jul 2021 17:31:27 +0200") Message-ID: <87sfzyi4y6.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30978 Cc: 30978@debbugs.gnu.org, Howard Melman X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > It's already pretty easy to just alter the lighters -- just say: > > (setcar (cdr (assoc 'foo-mode minor-mode-alist)) "whatever") Manipulating minor-mode-alist is not that hard indeed; there are some sources of hassle though: (1) figuring out the name of the mode variable (e.g. auto-fill-function, defining-kbd-macro); (2) some modes seem not to add their variables to minor-mode-alist for some reason (e.g. caps-lock-mode on GNU ELPA), so this recipe does not work (neither does delight); one needs to fallback to add-to-list. Nothing too herculean, but I'm sure some users would appreciate a built-in function to figure out this stuff for them. (And IIUC, solving this with a function, rather than automatically creating variables for each minor mode, would address your concern about bloat, since any added bloat would be opt-in) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 29 08:11:20 2021 Received: (at 30978) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jul 2021 12:11:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56839 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m94sh-00046K-Oc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 08:11:20 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:58734) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m94sf-000466-J7 for 30978@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 08:11:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=jMNjGKeTAS8MzFOpRFeGQrjt122Km4Y2fnbgAdkik6c=; b=Z0iXpScF1EXGKWZ9hi/s56+UtC TewrvXZ+B8NB+i/nNOtU8ovpdp1c6dbPzgF7MdrH35FZfgEj+lpScfRcjmNFl4NZ90/zwNpcdyBUK sZ+NtBS4Z/LutNeK1MQ4rrjHiy0Sd+g2VYxKDkldf81tKwzcuQ9viFhDpNfWqw4PoPj8=; Received: from 2.149.45.105.tmi.telenormobil.no ([2.149.45.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m94sW-0002gs-Jt; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 14:11:11 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Howard Melman Subject: Re: bug#30978: 25.3; Suggestion: define-minor-mode should define mode-lighter variable References: <874l3ou42z.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87sgcdft5w.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmwadno8.fsf@gnus.org> <97892e0eebeeff0413287058d68ad86b@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <87r1fmx1qx.fsf@gnus.org> <87o8ambgkw.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 14:11:07 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Howard Melman's message of "Wed, 28 Jul 2021 15:10:00 -0400") Message-ID: <874kcds4kk.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Howard Melman writes: > Maybe include an example of disabling a lighter in the elisp > manual (where minor-mode-alist is mentioned). E.g., > > (setcar (cdr (assoc 'eldoc-mode minor-mode-alist)) "") > > I realize this is "p [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP 0.0 TVD_RCVD_IP Message was received from an IP address -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30978 Cc: 30978@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Howard Melman writes: > Maybe include an example of disabling a lighter in the elisp > manual (where minor-mode-alist is mentioned). E.g., > > (setcar (cdr (assoc 'eldoc-mode minor-mode-alist)) "") > > I realize this is "pretty easy" lisp but it's not a simple > setq and I think non-lispers might want to do this. K=C3=A9vin Le Gouguec writes: > Manipulating minor-mode-alist is not that hard indeed; there are some > sources of hassle though: > > (1) figuring out the name of the mode variable (e.g. auto-fill-function, > defining-kbd-macro); > > (2) some modes seem not to add their variables to minor-mode-alist for > some reason (e.g. caps-lock-mode on GNU ELPA), so this recipe does > not work (neither does delight); one needs to fallback to > add-to-list. > > Nothing too herculean, but I'm sure some users would appreciate a > built-in function to figure out this stuff for them. I did consider adding a new function like `set-minor-mode-lighter' that would just alter `minor-mode-alist' like that setcar, but that has (at least) two problems -- the one you mention in (1), and loading precedence issues: If you alter the entry in `minor-mode-alist', and then load the .el file with the `define-minor-mode', then it'll overwrite your own setting. So you have to say (require 'foo) (setcar ...) in your .emacs to make it work reliably, so just adding a naive helper function, or talking about this too much, is that helpful, because it'll trip people up. Adding a -lighter defcustom would indeed have none of these problems, but I'm just not sure that people would use it enough to justify the (minor) performance impact, as well as the defcustom explosion. Which is why I think that using a package like delight is the right solution here for those that want to change the lighters. Probably. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:33:14 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator