GNU bug report logs - #3080
23.0.92; emacsclient can not open frame without visiting file

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Message #5 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Jameson Rollins <jrollins <at> finestructure.net>
To: emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org
Cc: rfrancoise <at> debian.org
Subject: 23.0.92; emacsclient can not open frame without visiting file
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 08:54:35 -0700

emacsclient does not allow for opening a frame, either in a terminal
or in a new X frame, with*out* touching a file.  This is maybe only an
issue when emacs is run in --daemon mode where an initial frame is not
created.  It is often useful to open up an emacs without having a
particular file that needs to be editted, and this is not currently
possible.  In fact, I would prefer to see emacsclient behave more like
the "classical" emacs behaves.  I would like to see the following
behavior, that I think makes more sense and is more compatible with
the classic interface:

emacsclient
  opens up a new frame with *scratch*
emacsclient <file>
  opens up a new frame with <file>
emacsclient -nw
  opens up a new frame in the current terminal with *scratch*
emacsclient -nw <file>
  opens up a new frame in the current terminal with <file>
emacsclient -<?> <file>
  opens up <file> in an already opened "master" frame

emacs --daemon mode is incredibly useful, and is the way I plan on
running emacs in the future, it would be nice to see the emacsclient
interface in parity with the standard "classical" emacs interface.

Thanks so much for working on the best editor in the world.


In GNU Emacs 23.0.92.1 (i486-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.14.7)
 of 2009-04-11 on elegiac, modified by Debian
 (emacs-snapshot package, version 1:20090411-1)
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.10402000
configured using `configure  '--build' 'i486-linux-gnu' '--host' 'i486-linux-gnu' '--prefix=/usr' '--sharedstatedir=/var/lib' '--libexecdir=/usr/lib' '--localstatedir=/var' '--infodir=/usr/share/info' '--mandir=/usr/share/man' '--with-pop=yes' '--enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs-snapshot:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/23.0.92/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/23.0.92/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp' '--with-x=yes' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk' 'build_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'host_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'CFLAGS=-DDEBIAN -DSITELOAD_PURESIZE_EXTRA=5000 -g -O2' 'LDFLAGS=-g -Wl,--as-needed' 'CPPFLAGS=''

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
  default-enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Lisp Interaction

Minor modes in effect:
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  iswitchb-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  global-auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
s SPC I SPC h o p e d SPC w ESC b ESC b C-e w o u l 
DEL DEL DEL DEL o u l d SPC b e SPC a v a ESC b ESC 
b ESC b ESC b ESC b C-k a r e SPC * n o t * SPC a v 
a i l a b l e . SPC SPC I ' m SPC s o r r y . SPC SPC 
I SPC r e a l l y SPC h o p e d SPC i t SPC w o u l 
d SPC h a v e SPC b e e n , SPC s i n c e SPC i t SPC 
w o u l d SPC h a v e SPC b e e n SPC s o DEL DEL v 
e r y SPC v DEL g o o d SPC f o r SPC y o u SPC g u 
y s . SPC SPC L e t SPC m e SPC k n o w SPC i f SPC 
I SPC c a n SPC h e l p SPC y o u SPC f i n d SPC ESC 
b ESC b C-k m o r e SPC i n SPC t h e SPC s e a r c 
h , SPC DEL DEL . RET RET j a m i e . ESC [ A ESC [ 
A ESC [ A ESC [ A ESC [ C ESC [ C ESC [ C ESC [ C ESC 
[ C ESC [ C ESC [ C C-d C-d C-d C-d C-d SPC i s ESC 
q C-x C-s C-x C-c M-x r e p <tab> o <tab> r t <tab> 
<return>

Recent messages:
When done with a buffer, type C-x #
Auto-saving...done
Mark set
Auto-saving...done
Mark set
Auto-saving...done
Saving file /tmp/mutt-servo-1000-30596-6...
Wrote /tmp/mutt-servo-1000-30596-6
(No files need saving)
Making completion list... [2 times]

Message #10 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
To: Jameson Rollins <jrollins <at> finestructure.net>
Cc: 3080 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org,
        rfrancoise <at> debian.org
Subject: Re: bug#3080: 23.0.92; emacsclient can not open frame without visiting file
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 22:42:23 +0200

Jameson Rollins <jrollins <at> finestructure.net> writes:

> emacsclient does not allow for opening a frame, either in a terminal
> or in a new X frame, with*out* touching a file.

$ emacsclient --eval '(progn (select-frame (make-frame)) nil)'

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Message #18 received at 3080 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Dan Nicolaescu <dann <at> ics.uci.edu>
To: Jameson Rollins <jrollins <at> finestructure.net>
Cc: 3080 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rfrancoise <at> debian.org
Subject: Re: bug#3080: 23.0.92; emacsclient can not open frame without visiting file
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:25:04 -0700 (PDT)

Jameson Rollins <jrollins <at> finestructure.net> writes:

  > emacsclient does not allow for opening a frame, either in a terminal
  > or in a new X frame, with*out* touching a file.  This is maybe only an
  > issue when emacs is run in --daemon mode where an initial frame is not
  > created.  It is often useful to open up an emacs without having a
  > particular file that needs to be editted, and this is not currently
  > possible.  In fact, I would prefer to see emacsclient behave more like
  > the "classical" emacs behaves.  I would like to see the following
  > behavior, that I think makes more sense and is more compatible with
  > the classic interface:
  > 
  > emacsclient
  >   opens up a new frame with *scratch*
does not work, it seems intentional, no idea why.

  > emacsclient <file>
  >   opens up a new frame with <file>

emacsclient -c <file>
does this


  > emacsclient -nw
  >   opens up a new frame in the current terminal with *scratch*

this works

  > emacsclient -nw <file>
  >   opens up a new frame in the current terminal with <file>

this works

  > emacsclient -<?> <file>
  >   opens up <file> in an already opened "master" frame

emacsclient <file> 
does this

Message #25 received at 3080 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Jameson Rollins <jrollins <at> finestructure.net>
To: Dan Nicolaescu <dann <at> ics.uci.edu>
Cc: 3080 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rfrancoise <at> debian.org
Subject: Re: bug#3080: 23.0.92; emacsclient can not open frame without
	visiting file
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 17:38:55 -0700

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 02:25:04PM -0700, Dan Nicolaescu wrote:
> Jameson Rollins <jrollins <at> finestructure.net> writes:
> 
>   > emacsclient does not allow for opening a frame, either in a terminal
>   > or in a new X frame, with*out* touching a file.  This is maybe only an
>   > issue when emacs is run in --daemon mode where an initial frame is not
>   > created.  It is often useful to open up an emacs without having a
>   > particular file that needs to be editted, and this is not currently
>   > possible.  In fact, I would prefer to see emacsclient behave more like
>   > the "classical" emacs behaves.  I would like to see the following
>   > behavior, that I think makes more sense and is more compatible with
>   > the classic interface:

Hi, Dan.  Thanks for the response.  What I was trying to outline below
was partially whether the functionality worked or not, but also that
the emacsclient interface is different that the standard emacs
interface, and that this seems a little bit unfortunate, seeing as
they could be the same.  Would it be possible to have them be the
same?  I think it would make interacting with the server/client much
easier.

>   > emacsclient
>   >   opens up a new frame with *scratch*
> does not work, it seems intentional, no idea why.

This is also the main thing that I was having issue with not working.
Is there any reason the behavior of just having emacsclient called
without any arguments open up an empty frame can't be supported?

jamie.

>   > emacsclient <file>
>   >   opens up a new frame with <file>
> 
> emacsclient -c <file>
> does this
> 
> 
>   > emacsclient -nw
>   >   opens up a new frame in the current terminal with *scratch*
> 
> this works
> 
>   > emacsclient -nw <file>
>   >   opens up a new frame in the current terminal with <file>
> 
> this works
> 
>   > emacsclient -<?> <file>
>   >   opens up <file> in an already opened "master" frame
> 
> emacsclient <file> 
> does this
> 
> 

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, attachment)]

Message #28 received at 3080 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Dan Nicolaescu <dann <at> ics.uci.edu>
To: Jameson Rollins <jrollins <at> finestructure.net>
Cc: 3080 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rfrancoise <at> debian.org
Subject: Re: bug#3080: 23.0.92; emacsclient can not open frame without visiting file
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:33:17 -0700 (PDT)

Jameson Rollins <jrollins <at> finestructure.net> writes:

  > On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 02:25:04PM -0700, Dan Nicolaescu wrote:
  > > Jameson Rollins <jrollins <at> finestructure.net> writes:
  > > 
  > >   > emacsclient does not allow for opening a frame, either in a terminal
  > >   > or in a new X frame, with*out* touching a file.  This is maybe only an
  > >   > issue when emacs is run in --daemon mode where an initial frame is not
  > >   > created.  It is often useful to open up an emacs without having a
  > >   > particular file that needs to be editted, and this is not currently
  > >   > possible.  In fact, I would prefer to see emacsclient behave more like
  > >   > the "classical" emacs behaves.  I would like to see the following
  > >   > behavior, that I think makes more sense and is more compatible with
  > >   > the classic interface:
  > 
  > Hi, Dan.  Thanks for the response.  What I was trying to outline below
  > was partially whether the functionality worked or not, but also that
  > the emacsclient interface is different that the standard emacs
  > interface, and that this seems a little bit unfortunate, seeing as
  > they could be the same.  Would it be possible to have them be the
  > same?  

Sure, AFAIR they were the same at some point after the multi-tty merge,
but they got changed back (no idea why, you might want to dig through
the mailing list).


  > >   > emacsclient
  > >   >   opens up a new frame with *scratch*
  > > does not work, it seems intentional, no idea why.
  > 
  > This is also the main thing that I was having issue with not working.
  > Is there any reason the behavior of just having emacsclient called
  > without any arguments open up an empty frame can't be supported?

AFAIK there's no technical reason.  It might be too late for the current
release cycle though.

  > jamie.
  > 
  > >   > emacsclient <file>
  > >   >   opens up a new frame with <file>
  > > 
  > > emacsclient -c <file>
  > > does this
  > > 
  > > 
  > >   > emacsclient -nw
  > >   >   opens up a new frame in the current terminal with *scratch*
  > > 
  > > this works
  > > 
  > >   > emacsclient -nw <file>
  > >   >   opens up a new frame in the current terminal with <file>
  > > 
  > > this works
  > > 
  > >   > emacsclient -<?> <file>
  > >   >   opens up <file> in an already opened "master" frame
  > > 
  > > emacsclient <file> 
  > > does this
  > > 
  > > 

Message #33 received at 3080 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Jameson Rollins <jrollins <at> finestructure.net>
Cc: 3080 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Dan Nicolaescu <dann <at> ics.uci.edu>,
        rfrancoise <at> debian.org
Subject: Re: bug#3080: 23.0.92; emacsclient can not open frame without visiting file
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:02:04 -0400

> Hi, Dan.  Thanks for the response.  What I was trying to outline below
> was partially whether the functionality worked or not, but also that
> the emacsclient interface is different that the standard emacs
> interface, and that this seems a little bit unfortunate, seeing as
> they could be the same.

The reason is simply that "emacsclient" has existed for a long time and
the previous behavior was not compatible with the one of "emacs".

> Would it be possible to have them be the same?

Only by breaking compatibility with scripts that were written for
older "emacsclient"s.

Note that if you really switch to a setup based on emacs-daemon, then
you'll only ever use "emacsclient" on the command line, so the
compatibility with the "emacs" command line wouldn't be that important.


        Stefan

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