From unknown Sat Aug 16 00:34:05 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#30349 <30349@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#30349 <30349@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 27.0.50; Cuonfusing documentation about pipe processes Reply-To: bug#30349 <30349@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2025 07:34:05 +0000 retitle 30349 27.0.50; Cuonfusing documentation about pipe processes reassign 30349 emacs submitter 30349 Philipp severity 30349 minor tag 30349 fixed patch thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 04 11:29:45 2018 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Feb 2018 16:29:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57278 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eiNAn-000202-DS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 11:29:45 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55431) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eiNAl-0001zg-Rk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 11:29:44 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eiNAf-0007E2-KB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 11:29:38 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT,FREEMAIL_FROM,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:48179) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eiNAf-0007Dv-Gj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 11:29:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46364) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eiNAe-0006W7-7t for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 11:29:37 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eiNAc-0007CI-RD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 11:29:36 -0500 Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]:54542) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eiNAc-0007C0-Hc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 11:29:34 -0500 Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id i186so21668199wmi.4 for ; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 08:29:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=qIVJPDRt0TPdWE9mx3J34NeKBBS92IQ0OBzj1RJmE5U=; b=XbohVm+EMw1xS9T4YzZeMF67cH95H9t5qRAJvmTkAiPsahOeZdHZfEQb/NZPlnooYp ogQL5BdyVmIUsHq5WTmygw2t4mrswWjzfsBB0/Jb5oJYAB+ZovpvtexRQUScFWfYu2sW +i4KK1RZqmItPkeGjemrOLHoA4Rqcg+Jpn+gR8fRYVUu9yylKMl8JLngzcV/26SQvgGN HL5X3mP8byeIAYoq1xyvUxpki/M2lbHzsB2GB3RfAgF6urQBo1AMblKiJC4Bpyz2wMlZ SBit1e/ll6XmrPoJ25UWNa9nB4PzKiYBpbzpLn0Qc0byT7eqSgsqRMV9+Jzd4kSbRqrx qC0Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=qIVJPDRt0TPdWE9mx3J34NeKBBS92IQ0OBzj1RJmE5U=; b=lV9JqpBJc/tuFxmMEtfnTeNUKgt42taXRFTx1Ueosq6lQR+Qvl9FYmkzq4zAXDtze5 6+wpVvYIhPbziOsGTGLTmp07hSWxwnJFbKjp1NTbBBMxsfNKY32hELHHVGVrLblNJFVy x98daGCpTtnu4Zmq04AQsb54rxfZmyqCL/YPen+WGAcn5xn36bhIOJCP4HxgdDlMZEOU Ie7DZfnY/Hlgy9EnjQ0JUzGWGqe2JTtxY0yx7aB6uz3hpHbmQUok0JLKQ08QMOv+tf3V /bjosMI548Twqbic22nz7nXnZ4K8Sclb0A1tv0AMBCUhSBfcyZa0lV82CcGeb4r7JmnR Ty7A== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytdm2Nd6ERILATIZTN2cK5kfcquJ7HQgduvw8Tc1Y2NLHvHVPD/z nOT107LR6+XjNZQO1o7keGurWIW3 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x224DZrg+okeZup03SQaEPNnzL+IGB1Pa1K32AdMWOXjE+XJBftHkFy7bFWUMmO7VroQsT8S6fQ== X-Received: by 10.28.116.16 with SMTP id p16mr14922610wmc.21.1517761773026; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 08:29:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from p ([2001:4c50:25a:2900:d171:8170:66c8:e09c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w3sm10691118wrc.22.2018.02.04.08.29.31 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 04 Feb 2018 08:29:31 -0800 (PST) From: Philipp To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 27.0.50; Cuonfusing documentation about pipe processes Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2018 17:29:30 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -3.8 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.8 (---) I've found a few confusing items about pipe processes in the documentation: C-h f make-pipe-process says: ":buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate with the process. Process output goes at the end of that buffer, unless you specify an output stream or filter function to handle the output." => How do you specify an output stream? The manual says about pipe processes: @item :stop @var{stopped} If @var{stopped} is non-@code{nil}, start the process in the stopped state. => What does "the stopped state" mean? How can a pipe be "stopped"? This is not a big issue, it probably just needs a bit of editorial work. In GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 38, x86_64-apple-darwin17.4.0, NS appkit-1561.20 Version 10.13.3 (Build 17D47)) of 2018-02-04 built on p Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.1561 Recent messages: For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. Configured using: 'configure --with-modules --without-pop --with-mailutils --enable-gcc-warnings=yes --enable-checking --enable-check-lisp-object-type 'CFLAGS=-ggdb3 -O0'' Configured features: NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS NS MODULES THREADS JSON Important settings: value of $LANG: de_DE.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Lisp Interaction Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t eldoc-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. 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How can a pipe be "stopped"? See stop-process and continue-process. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 05 19:53:27 2018 Received: (at 30349) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2018 00:53:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59244 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eirVk-0002aO-SY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 19:53:27 -0500 Received: from mail-it0-f44.google.com ([209.85.214.44]:37151) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eirVh-0002a2-DX; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 19:53:21 -0500 Received: by mail-it0-f44.google.com with SMTP id h129so474364ita.2; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 16:53:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=FrldbIbsi9Z3iVb6D/yLzFXcGXTrlzw6AqzLoOcG0A4=; b=vfzrkX/i30RrgdHEPTLDumewE401at/+NdmicCUpZ+OzOWViM2569b0LPJIxhV2rFz 2s8uqc7bxTvQ8pG4aYORCqabdcj4KOrr7mfNV1nCPAo7tdcttAKfhRpe93OLCrtJpQQE /lIbF9oQXWcSNstKdIWvLB7sTIrMqqjNn52+HaNeiwRYCsQWWoDxAu60/YeT+pLaK+fd 5783i/D/MSLHuv+8OH7IJWnncPHMQtvJVXVgXH5W7O6Z8SxC3tKIiojU1TpD1cSSg0WU hqB3qR4Mgw4P8/JOM+Vc9QrHh5PVi4waxXupNzEHUOWdjJGp7YgVNuowXmrlXErMui9t Ukeg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=FrldbIbsi9Z3iVb6D/yLzFXcGXTrlzw6AqzLoOcG0A4=; b=IBj5bbkTV+6vDFZLLB3k9BC/H7aCP6tPYNkfP9PGgrcCnLYc+IxEdifVf+BpzdSSVP O/UCk75G5uoHAlZDFmRp6ducaW5z5qjk6stek4MCWRJf6azBtFxLNQkEO1fs4AR9wN4A /CZYOf3b9TMJjpb7/S3mB1f2CLBotrkgzEX0y2P/dV6gN03imz3WuQ0pLoSM7p6md7u6 H2Rz4mXmLnMEySIi1o2nsYQ6CV6PShazxxoL/hqwl0R/qeaC0JLvhjNl00R1DQN7JpzO LIYn76Lp0evC5q8omz32IRygGusxBS3Ux7LyySviC62IHB8bQw7J/d2rp4XjMEFvUxgu HfKA== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPDyavagokA+p76uCIXdjEBlsNV+nt1hlZ8oUDdAJgxheAJLuvtI abQrj23gcJmAjkufbMkmw+cvMw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x2276mlNUhAIEUaoyd0iHffAhSUa+gzHr3hTmmHT1DEcoioPydoUn48ulnfQDZVlJ44xq+CbWbg== X-Received: by 10.36.13.5 with SMTP id 5mr859415itx.68.1517878395626; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 16:53:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from zebian (cbl-45-2-119-34.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca. [45.2.119.34]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id c9sm6066531iod.5.2018.02.05.16.53.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 05 Feb 2018 16:53:13 -0800 (PST) From: Noam Postavsky To: Philipp Subject: Re: bug#30349: 27.0.50; Cuonfusing documentation about pipe processes References: Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2018 19:53:12 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Philipp's message of "Sun, 04 Feb 2018 17:29:30 +0100") Message-ID: <87zi4ndjlz.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30349 Cc: 30349@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain tags 30349 + patch quit Philipp writes: > C-h f make-pipe-process says: > > ":buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate > with the process. Process output goes at the end of that buffer, > unless you specify an output stream or filter function to handle the > output." > > => How do you specify an output stream? I don't think there is such a thing. That phrase seems to have been copied across all the make-*-process functions. > The manual says about pipe processes: > > @item :stop @var{stopped} > If @var{stopped} is non-@code{nil}, start the process in the > stopped state. > > => What does "the stopped state" mean? How can a pipe be "stopped"? The docstring explains it fine, may as well copy that part to the manual I guess. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: inline; filename=v1-0001-Doc-fixes-for-process-functions-Bug-30349.patch Content-Description: patch >From 902ded87cb2e8079259c34a323afa84b11f84e8b Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Noam Postavsky Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 19:36:27 -0500 Subject: [PATCH v1] Doc fixes for process functions (Bug#30349) * doc/lispref/processes.texi (Asynchronous Processes): Explain what the 'stopped' state means for a pipe process. * src/process.c (Fmake_process, Fmake_pipe_process) (Fmake_serial_process, Fmake_network_process): Remove meaningless phrase "specify an output stream" from docstring. --- doc/lispref/processes.texi | 6 ++++-- src/process.c | 26 ++++++++++++-------------- 2 files changed, 16 insertions(+), 16 deletions(-) diff --git a/doc/lispref/processes.texi b/doc/lispref/processes.texi index 8a8425cb84..4706a9daa0 100644 --- a/doc/lispref/processes.texi +++ b/doc/lispref/processes.texi @@ -728,8 +728,10 @@ Asynchronous Processes @xref{Query Before Exit}. @item :stop @var{stopped} -If @var{stopped} is non-@code{nil}, start the process in the -stopped state. +If @var{stopped} is non-@code{nil}, start the process in the stopped +state. In the stopped state, a pipe process does not accept incoming +data, but you can send outgoing data. The stopped state is cleared by +@code{continue-process} and set by @code{stop-process}. @item :filter @var{filter} Initialize the process filter to @var{filter}. If not specified, a diff --git a/src/process.c b/src/process.c index 8a438cfeb8..e688510a41 100644 --- a/src/process.c +++ b/src/process.c @@ -1617,10 +1617,9 @@ DEFUN ("make-process", Fmake_process, Smake_process, 0, MANY, 0, to make it unique. :buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate -with the process. Process output goes at end of that buffer, unless -you specify an output stream or filter function to handle the output. -BUFFER may be also nil, meaning that this process is not associated -with any buffer. +with the process. The default filter function writes process output +at the end of that buffer. BUFFER may be also nil, meaning that this +process is not associated with any buffer. :command COMMAND -- COMMAND is a list starting with the program file name, followed by strings to give to the program as arguments. @@ -2309,9 +2308,9 @@ DEFUN ("make-pipe-process", Fmake_pipe_process, Smake_pipe_process, :name NAME -- NAME is the name of the process. It is modified if necessary to make it unique. :buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate -with the process. Process output goes at the end of that buffer, -unless you specify an output stream or filter function to handle the -output. If BUFFER is not given, the value of NAME is used. +with the process. The default filter function writes process output +at the end of that buffer. If BUFFER is not given, the value of NAME +is used. :coding CODING -- If CODING is a symbol, it specifies the coding system used for both reading and writing for this process. If CODING @@ -3024,9 +3023,9 @@ DEFUN ("make-serial-process", Fmake_serial_process, Smake_serial_process, the value of PORT is used. :buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate -with the process. Process output goes at the end of that buffer, -unless you specify an output stream or filter function to handle the -output. If BUFFER is not given, the value of NAME is used. +with the process. The default filter function writes process output +at the end of that buffer. If BUFFER is not given, the value of NAME +is used. :coding CODING -- If CODING is a symbol, it specifies the coding system used for both reading and writing for this process. If CODING @@ -3687,10 +3686,9 @@ DEFUN ("make-network-process", Fmake_network_process, Smake_network_process, to make it unique. :buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate -with the process. Process output goes at end of that buffer, unless -you specify an output stream or filter function to handle the output. -BUFFER may be also nil, meaning that this process is not associated -with any buffer. +with the process. The default filter function writes process output +at the end of that buffer. BUFFER may be also nil, meaning that this +process is not associated with any buffer. :host HOST -- HOST is name of the host to connect to, or its IP address. The symbol `local' specifies the local host. If specified -- 2.11.0 --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 05 22:55:02 2018 Received: (at 30349) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2018 03:55:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59380 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eiuLV-0002Vx-QU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 22:55:02 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48978) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eiuLU-0002VZ-Hc for 30349@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 22:55:00 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eiuLK-0008Uh-NU for 30349@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 22:54:55 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:35114) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eiuLK-0008Ud-JS; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 22:54:50 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4815 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eiuLK-0002Xj-2i; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 22:54:50 -0500 Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2018 05:54:43 +0200 Message-Id: <83tvuu7oxo.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Noam Postavsky In-reply-to: <87zi4ndjlz.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> (message from Noam Postavsky on Mon, 05 Feb 2018 19:53:12 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#30349: 27.0.50; Cuonfusing documentation about pipe processes References: <87zi4ndjlz.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30349 Cc: p.stephani2@gmail.com, 30349@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Noam Postavsky > Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2018 19:53:12 -0500 > Cc: 30349@debbugs.gnu.org > > > ":buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate > > with the process. Process output goes at the end of that buffer, > > unless you specify an output stream or filter function to handle the > > output." > > > > => How do you specify an output stream? > > I don't think there is such a thing. That phrase seems to have been > copied across all the make-*-process functions. And is wrong in all of them? Could it be that the phrase originally meant shell-style redirection? > @item :stop @var{stopped} > -If @var{stopped} is non-@code{nil}, start the process in the > -stopped state. > +If @var{stopped} is non-@code{nil}, start the process in the stopped > +state. In the stopped state, a pipe process does not accept incoming > +data, but you can send outgoing data. The stopped state is cleared by > +@code{continue-process} and set by @code{stop-process}. In the last sentence, I'd swap the order of references to clearing and setting the stopped state. I'd also add a @pxref to where those two functions are described. > :buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate > -with the process. Process output goes at end of that buffer, unless > -you specify an output stream or filter function to handle the output. > -BUFFER may be also nil, meaning that this process is not associated > -with any buffer. > +with the process. The default filter function writes process output > +at the end of that buffer. BUFFER may be also nil, meaning that this > +process is not associated with any buffer. This goes too far in deleting stuff that is useful: the part of the second sentence that follows "unless", which talks about specifying a filter function, should be left alone. Without it, "The default filter function ..." surprises the reader, since it talks about the default of something that wasn't mentioned before. With those fixed, this is good for the release branch, thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 06 07:10:53 2018 Received: (at 30349) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2018 12:10:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59604 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ej25N-00023M-A5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 07:10:53 -0500 Received: from mail-io0-f173.google.com ([209.85.223.173]:43375) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ej25L-000239-W9 for 30349@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 07:10:52 -0500 Received: by mail-io0-f173.google.com with SMTP id 72so2251817iom.10 for <30349@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 04:10:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=536Tm2o8Wt/6Oj4IjSRgdLXTdeHJ9Y2FX4KmQZ51+UI=; b=Ft9Wb2Tk56DKT2JhVb1D8Cl+VoJz9lRMvHHMdyXPVmEmnuXsp/rC5gf8eAB8hNP16j LzxIBHXf6ynnT3RO7a48iGhvaU/p/kQDGWO+r8kEnOvUHJjbTLyNQFhSwlHL4fGZbGoY CaCxinZzry60S07KJ6IpmDXZ3ro2rbJP4meQQkb1MioLMvWirwCHtVlY9RfhEMI51ARa VcLSU0cudsAjOwKA2cjl/22GocCU/fQmB0Rc0y5qHvYwc31fHWrSqIkEM0JGgnNwHv5q yxDvb+C1XnulEYaWCwXLQvR1gFLjqH0pIyWM+I63P1Hebej+rrvbC2H4f0u6UYRUprCu mDbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=536Tm2o8Wt/6Oj4IjSRgdLXTdeHJ9Y2FX4KmQZ51+UI=; b=AyRh2Hi++mimaR3aQiP67PZSImp7y6hacNN0GvXvONWijk4lqjlt9EjLp09aXtefb4 Z69wxAWEmWEmIE7xVrUtUuLFJNDixC0/yPUvmnTdEj2ZOIwj6qE2TKdJzWdh22N2Lpjp 9OVG0N9HKqdVzc4cMn1L0aE6P3gb0F/1Np2MaNC9giExkUFCSD/PLOwXA+kAjjmUftLF mzhprSVTImKkJdoMYRiZZ0CNQrk6KJTf59dWS/ZpOnOExRGz1WkKA2/olcs7JZOfgBgV t22GFkTXk8RZmbsNTjloSm/cCm9kJI+4ERfXN8upI+Q7qnv5s9nP1d125fzjPH9uJP51 T2Pw== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPDacPtiv0o/mKMEw8xOXQRW7EQdUc7mOfdiKr2m3NBlDZLAtJag Bh6StZ+8hyBa0x0y1cIJ5vb5bQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x226tp1Zt0ZZA7B8vMvzFp4u02bYObrih50UUK+nnCGBSH1azcy5qUsGwnd6EBv2VzU0fnzqwTQ== X-Received: by 10.107.138.20 with SMTP id m20mr2701426iod.192.1517919046056; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 04:10:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from zebian (cbl-45-2-119-34.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca. [45.2.119.34]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id c15sm4831517itd.4.2018.02.06.04.10.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 06 Feb 2018 04:10:44 -0800 (PST) From: Noam Postavsky To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#30349: 27.0.50; Cuonfusing documentation about pipe processes References: <87zi4ndjlz.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <83tvuu7oxo.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2018 07:10:43 -0500 In-Reply-To: <83tvuu7oxo.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 06 Feb 2018 05:54:43 +0200") Message-ID: <87shaee2t8.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30349 Cc: p.stephani2@gmail.com, 30349@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Noam Postavsky >> Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2018 19:53:12 -0500 >> Cc: 30349@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> > ":buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate >> > with the process. Process output goes at the end of that buffer, >> > unless you specify an output stream or filter function to handle the >> > output." >> > >> > => How do you specify an output stream? >> >> I don't think there is such a thing. That phrase seems to have been >> copied across all the make-*-process functions. > > And is wrong in all of them? I think so. > Could it be that the phrase originally meant shell-style redirection? Perhaps, but none of those functions support that, as far as I know. >> @item :stop @var{stopped} >> +If @var{stopped} is non-@code{nil}, start the process in the stopped >> +state. In the stopped state, a pipe process does not accept incoming >> +data, but you can send outgoing data. The stopped state is cleared by >> +@code{continue-process} and set by @code{stop-process}. > > In the last sentence, I'd swap the order of references to clearing and > setting the stopped state. I'd also add a @pxref to where those two > functions are described. Ok. > This goes too far in deleting stuff that is useful: the part of the > second sentence that follows "unless", which talks about specifying a > filter function, should be left alone. Without it, "The default > filter function ..." surprises the reader, since it talks about the > default of something that wasn't mentioned before. Not entirely sure I follow, did you actually mean the part that *precedes* "unless" should be left alone? As in: :buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate with the process. Process output goes at end of that buffer, unless you specify a filter function to handle the output. [...] Otherwise, mentioning both "the default filter function" and "unless you specify a filter function" feels redundant to me: :buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate with the process. The default filter function writes process output at the end of that buffer, unless you specify a filter function to handle the output. [...] From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 06 11:31:48 2018 Received: (at 30349) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2018 16:31:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60495 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ej69q-00064L-OC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 11:31:48 -0500 Received: from mail-wm0-f46.google.com ([74.125.82.46]:33583) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ej69o-000647-4U for 30349@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 11:31:45 -0500 Received: by mail-wm0-f46.google.com with SMTP id x4-v6so18627474wmc.0 for <30349@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 08:31:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd-ie.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=wib+n+5OjU+4FEAnLWhjp+V4Y1+bOyeKRchAdKZnq1A=; b=pxQu/+Li0EMp/wAEwqcJyjVWRI8jwHWenTXx0W478EnbSwmvKaGLuTlRkZoMNb8Kpm BAIJyrHOELdEsmVT8+qa7AFGiO8toIjhezqRb1QUdE6ulUWs+UIq8kIcZvv10LY2gUPa l0oRa/mvBoVGHIUNTj6uzjAqUwe451+eHowdn8S+8TzbLBVPJQSvjhwh7q3G3OlKBpJN RY8mCgV7/yIcfBnxPF83eH2XnoREXuE+wKD1vTkBTBqNs+AJB0GdzfNoISDkruTs4Yf4 9dWILkEQd/Vuyxj7xH/38/j6GOvIeQcAvXIzXfYpLI6tTmb+MJtpIkhJZBruVu1skKKV b8bQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=wib+n+5OjU+4FEAnLWhjp+V4Y1+bOyeKRchAdKZnq1A=; b=IfJVuIZf32urBa74f3ENzHOaL9tt0bjVouSrQ81kwKfd3nJxZpcapdBmJTiNXexWrS sTsdw68bf77BVrdjbR95UzFxUl46y2Nzp+CqznMNs36zl+pU5CLZLaixY+l1WSr1j9fc +MMXGYCddz3ZT6jNxqso8XntD/pb41ABdhAbPtmNgBrs+uQPums9uhyD58n7oBgsHb5n sKc41+IskQcTNbbrq3DgblXX40wjnEcNCwAZY4a3Qe6WxQzH7yU5hd9EpxZED19diuRn dnB9TUP02EMGEp1Y0wVwSNjOVRdSu19i9Ja7JmyldBG+WhxrGwIboeriKy24TwTDa4K5 wY+A== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPBEqL0ENABhIiPWnwJn8069Pt6fQAfT+8XbYTVzHiFP25MlOIdW A01no4sz4IQk3jrsi6pXiLLgTA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x226h0MwpvZBZ1y1Ox11NVYg0Cg/xMVN9d2Pbd2DltusmjgUq9b11JV+E1yTkM3N4kUnOQB+xhQ== X-Received: by 10.80.243.129 with SMTP id g1mr4694832edm.6.1517934698481; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 08:31:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([86.43.86.68]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p57sm9786025edc.33.2018.02.06.08.31.36 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 06 Feb 2018 08:31:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" To: Noam Postavsky Subject: Re: bug#30349: 27.0.50; Cuonfusing documentation about pipe processes References: <87zi4ndjlz.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <83tvuu7oxo.fsf@gnu.org> <87shaee2t8.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2018 16:31:35 +0000 In-Reply-To: <87shaee2t8.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> (Noam Postavsky's message of "Tue, 06 Feb 2018 07:10:43 -0500") Message-ID: <87fu6euljs.fsf@tcd.ie> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30349 Cc: 30349@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , p.stephani2@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Noam Postavsky writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >>> From: Noam Postavsky >>> Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2018 19:53:12 -0500 >>> Cc: 30349@debbugs.gnu.org >>> >>> > ":buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate >>> > with the process. Process output goes at the end of that buffer, >>> > unless you specify an output stream or filter function to handle the >>> > output." >>> > >>> > => How do you specify an output stream? >>> >>> I don't think there is such a thing. That phrase seems to have been >>> copied across all the make-*-process functions. >> >> And is wrong in all of them? > > I think so. > >> Could it be that the phrase originally meant shell-style redirection? > > Perhaps, but none of those functions support that, as far as I know. No relation to '(elisp) Output Streams'? -- Basil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 06 11:45:02 2018 Received: (at 30349) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2018 16:45:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60499 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ej6Mf-0006NO-QX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 11:45:02 -0500 Received: from mail-wr0-f179.google.com ([209.85.128.179]:34498) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ej6Me-0006Mz-5l for 30349@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 11:45:00 -0500 Received: by mail-wr0-f179.google.com with SMTP id z6so2653240wrb.1 for <30349@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 08:45:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=ct1blq8Yss04bElqIVq5CpOG31VNBPJPBq3QIJyvkVw=; b=qjsfzBIvYt1ck9hC7BhrnYFl+aeqtNMxvOMyUxhCVv4lVTW9tIjFmzA9Er1oysgUvE yvlB0w8J/sCg2pyAEeb3Kfca8rGXr4aQrknUoTV3Ljz0cbu0aeUrM9pTsFdUpQTwJidG oXvFAOf0Y4s24ihm7F+knjagllwDSBN3okhqGBxaus4jdewIN4kB2NfthS7XGPYjLyFV RCb091gxxFQxmfeQxWoSzj4cmvAu/0bz9FjDDfh3yYmGiqnKrrbx7ddDKKjbJFkHFTk7 iYf27msUOF2Vt8/7anC275mkM6J2ROSuuF8RQtxSm1kSRx6v2QwRuC7TQPx3y2TASlwQ dy3Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ct1blq8Yss04bElqIVq5CpOG31VNBPJPBq3QIJyvkVw=; b=jAMjsXxG2bU8+3i/7ZcVCy2nDwy0qSqfH6mEcqFziSN1A2LBr09w2F3QjuFpqvN48E 6/6y5jY9h4pJkQqMnUshFbbXiqQ7AJY0YS4iLXawg81VHpQMHgTk3wWBC9Qx/mYpW3nl 5A/gpda3KOkYv5k358vl6SAXXq7c0buwMba/CDnHfwVaGpGbCdnD0W128kSPKVpp6CGI pMu6MQZOAMlf5W0A4voCAwX/NebNlnV0IYBwmdlP2g7EmrWHv4DxBLmlliu5gHHbNIwy A5oFE7OCXhE3RHJq1iWmFBcMKO2/9XWaLV/hmNHj47TLADOG+YsHEpWlSR9Ok6NqMZsE hxZw== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPBUDM2brceAdikoAddTI3DxG72wm0VfIiui9Eiu+sMF1JO02dHN RbcqCPpigkG9z/rKHSO+PeTS3+KG8NLSIaD9k+o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x226Oc91U/y/ex0Ig5pUJs4/PBPzLPH4IMbWhV+O9VXsJhwTcnMXPRBYvUOmqm1BoeM8EKC/Kl6xQ6owhFo8vlYA= X-Received: by 10.223.142.164 with SMTP id q33mr3063354wrb.267.1517935494434; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 08:44:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.182.69 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Feb 2018 08:44:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87fu6euljs.fsf@tcd.ie> References: <87zi4ndjlz.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <83tvuu7oxo.fsf@gnu.org> <87shaee2t8.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <87fu6euljs.fsf@tcd.ie> From: Noam Postavsky Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 11:44:53 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: AP6p8M13DhYmG8VhrYAqHzGzWi4 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#30349: 27.0.50; Cuonfusing documentation about pipe processes To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30349 Cc: 30349@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Philipp Stephani X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Basil L. Contovounesios wrote: >>>> > ":buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate >>>> > with the process. Process output goes at the end of that buffer, >>>> > unless you specify an output stream or filter function to handle the >>>> > output." >>>> > >>>> > => How do you specify an output stream? >>>> >>>> I don't think there is such a thing. That phrase seems to have been >>>> copied across all the make-*-process functions. >>> >>> And is wrong in all of them? >> >> I think so. >> >>> Could it be that the phrase originally meant shell-style redirection? >> >> Perhaps, but none of those functions support that, as far as I know. > > No relation to '(elisp) Output Streams'? I don't see anything in the process code that would be able to take an Elisp stream. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 06 13:55:44 2018 Received: (at 30349) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2018 18:55:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60553 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ej8PA-000191-BN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 13:55:44 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47154) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ej8P8-00018l-4C for 30349@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 13:55:42 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ej8Oz-0002rT-Nm for 30349@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 13:55:36 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:48796) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ej8Oz-0002rP-In; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 13:55:33 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1363 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ej8Oy-0003Cj-No; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 13:55:33 -0500 Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2018 20:55:28 +0200 Message-Id: <83lgg66j8f.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Noam Postavsky In-reply-to: <87shaee2t8.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> (message from Noam Postavsky on Tue, 06 Feb 2018 07:10:43 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#30349: 27.0.50; Cuonfusing documentation about pipe processes References: <87zi4ndjlz.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <83tvuu7oxo.fsf@gnu.org> <87shaee2t8.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30349 Cc: p.stephani2@gmail.com, 30349@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Noam Postavsky > Cc: p.stephani2@gmail.com, 30349@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2018 07:10:43 -0500 > > >> I don't think there is such a thing. That phrase seems to have been > >> copied across all the make-*-process functions. > > > > And is wrong in all of them? > > I think so. > > > Could it be that the phrase originally meant shell-style redirection? > > Perhaps, but none of those functions support that, as far as I know. Did you look at Git history of how that text was introduced? Maybe that will tell us something. Or maybe the discussions/bug report around the time this text was written/modified will give a hint. (Sorry I'm not doing this research myself, but I'm terribly busy these days, and won't have time for it for another couple of days.) > > This goes too far in deleting stuff that is useful: the part of the > > second sentence that follows "unless", which talks about specifying a > > filter function, should be left alone. Without it, "The default > > filter function ..." surprises the reader, since it talks about the > > default of something that wasn't mentioned before. > > Not entirely sure I follow, did you actually mean the part that > *precedes* "unless" should be left alone? As in: > > :buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate > with the process. Process output goes at end of that buffer, unless > you specify a filter function to handle the output. [...] Yes. And then the sentence about the default filter function. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 06 19:06:02 2018 Received: (at 30349) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2018 00:06:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60715 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ejDFR-0000Dc-NI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 19:06:01 -0500 Received: from mail-wm0-f41.google.com ([74.125.82.41]:39755) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ejDFQ-0000DH-7m for 30349@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 19:06:00 -0500 Received: by mail-wm0-f41.google.com with SMTP id b21so78556wme.4 for <30349@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 16:06:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=q9D9ZZbRSFVIo2VCEDVEdJfSJrg4K7zetaNaXoftTf4=; b=nqjALLe3gxj+aZfeMhQqn6fVOZtU504wfDuDgDtcHkA1Jq3ANrXrrm1FlxFfevLMHz g9UZLBw0ZMSp+CSCn7ytDf1cGfGNqqkNug1st/ykkvsXUmrBWdhlSuA6hhwJICq/nTLh 9TZTn/vxshYxkazJDD7CwD13fDXwrieX4YopE7UetwZSoJ4oVGniHKjJb31xH88paWwh pV9EYfF254828Qx+MYrR5LsTENcsPqd9qwqDQfmBNyZOcAXtMYMYaFO0lqIKJOSdbTOu Tina+RA/uRvXIfDoo0TwOWdD6/jxG+Q5xPq6Lwe+tpiIP/qUhrGgzQ+bzZwLgKYfelRQ 0vZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=q9D9ZZbRSFVIo2VCEDVEdJfSJrg4K7zetaNaXoftTf4=; b=lzzm8zdejget1Hilyny1Ec9bi/MeDvJabeEUo6tJQvzYEjbDBBYbbpo82UcxE6VhI2 NIuLVXud9RphWyNvQNAjuGyXtx4aSQqXfhAPqAS1MRE9syTuzKsfAI9p/dsilOsEIbIc OWdnSAJYce6N0MXxA0XPZeuEoN0vUahKZPjwXNXURkKg8G/xwsOixwBj3ol5hlVhqI2j 3gX/OcznkaMdZtOBBiisuACUo7Kf+1QdP6COKcz9tUu7gKHN2JAoUN2fB3lLfPqITbeM GN3c4iEBxt2VN1Y/WfvUx6NuslFLZB0yV0DyKxIGFqDRJiZQcSIm76Znt4DGkItmzkiZ kZKA== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPAG+7aE7/JSM3zpNhMgzMd2N04hbZ5EclqCZD1kES+PuY5QKZPV YnWCj7b5cFnZqJASECocmCphlW88mAoL4fNrl3Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x224Qt/Auubf3RWlIDh6EFdGi7WXG6bZRlIjgt3VWV4XCtnq65QDDRjEYX5cJPULXwJSMK65Y6t1u+6Rwab1R1fQ= X-Received: by 10.28.35.200 with SMTP id j191mr3552174wmj.146.1517961954560; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 16:05:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.182.69 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Feb 2018 16:05:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83lgg66j8f.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87zi4ndjlz.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <83tvuu7oxo.fsf@gnu.org> <87shaee2t8.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <83lgg66j8f.fsf@gnu.org> From: Noam Postavsky Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 19:05:54 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7KHlqgJGsyI_VHk0hwfUWn4EDnY Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#30349: 27.0.50; Cuonfusing documentation about pipe processes To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30349 Cc: Philipp Stephani , 30349@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 1:55 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > Could it be that the phrase originally meant shell-style redirection? >> >> Perhaps, but none of those functions support that, as far as I know. > > Did you look at Git history of how that text was introduced? Maybe > that will tell us something. Or maybe the discussions/bug report > around the time this text was written/modified will give a hint. Huh. I had assumed it was new in make-process, but actually the phrase seems to have come from start-process where it was present since the beginning [1: d0d6b7c]. I see it's also in start-process-shell-command, where it could refer to shell redirection, so maybe it was copied from there? Although, IMO, even in start-process-shell-command it doesn't really make much sense: if you use shell redirection you haven't stopped the output from going into BUFFER, there just happens not to be any output. [1: d0d6b7c]: 1992-03-14 20:40:04 +0000 Initial revision https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=d0d6b7c506eb0f93e80db38d6c2affe0a2b49b4c > (Sorry I'm not doing this research myself, but I'm terribly busy these > days, and won't have time for it for another couple of days.) No problem. >> :buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate >> with the process. Process output goes at end of that buffer, unless >> you specify a filter function to handle the output. [...] > > Yes. And then the sentence about the default filter function. Hmm, I know I have a personal tendency for terseness, but that really seems redundant to me: :buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate with the process. Process output goes at end of that buffer, unless you specify a filter function to handle the output. The default filter function writes process output at the end of that buffer. [...] From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 06 22:40:28 2018 Received: (at 30349) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2018 03:40:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60789 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ejGax-0005aT-TO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 22:40:28 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45089) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ejGax-0005aI-6D for 30349@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 22:40:27 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ejGao-0000ec-RN for 30349@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 22:40:22 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:56649) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ejGao-0000eS-Kq; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 22:40:18 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1945 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ejGao-0001oB-2R; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 22:40:18 -0500 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2018 05:40:15 +0200 Message-Id: <83a7wl79i8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Noam Postavsky In-reply-to: (message from Noam Postavsky on Tue, 6 Feb 2018 19:05:54 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#30349: 27.0.50; Cuonfusing documentation about pipe processes References: <87zi4ndjlz.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <83tvuu7oxo.fsf@gnu.org> <87shaee2t8.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <83lgg66j8f.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30349 Cc: p.stephani2@gmail.com, 30349@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Noam Postavsky > Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 19:05:54 -0500 > Cc: Philipp Stephani , 30349@debbugs.gnu.org > > Hmm, I know I have a personal tendency for terseness, but that really > seems redundant to me: > > :buffer BUFFER -- BUFFER is the buffer (or buffer-name) to associate > with the process. Process output goes at end of that buffer, unless > you specify a filter function to handle the output. The default > filter function writes process output at the end of that buffer. [...] You are right, it is redundant. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 07 20:24:29 2018 Received: (at 30349) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2018 01:24:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33607 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ejawv-0001AC-9E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2018 20:24:29 -0500 Received: from mail-io0-f176.google.com ([209.85.223.176]:46099) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ejawt-00019r-7e; Wed, 07 Feb 2018 20:24:27 -0500 Received: by mail-io0-f176.google.com with SMTP id f34so4083402ioi.13; Wed, 07 Feb 2018 17:24:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=eHsuFzQaWfdNqYMpBKBN2j3JKc5vuch2byCwzqU8trw=; b=QoMUWAHVxntPzRykxTXwcZGVPqb/E82fxXW1R7hKfOyH1zH9BVnjnV5zNdBo0CVsbN fyDfuBeK4OLXxkdzgdir0RTH8weVrGbOk9nNXjiLmhDtd/6MrefMKRyXP74FtE2AoI6B OiyFYcp6xDCQsWKnoRr1YLeRaQFy7ZKavBf82kimtheDImYcVGXwlQ6Hws+Q+wJGJ9/u elopgiQ5X6LxPrLFRdAVK4ZJUgx7BTEPM6YyicHX15r60PWCq1rmIz2fhRlBYuJzb8s4 /lcchBEtqOOawJdGpviTgkR/BcNeOh1uNPkbbufUYti9WhILXlH9K9TDA7hZnZpNjuCW YxEA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=eHsuFzQaWfdNqYMpBKBN2j3JKc5vuch2byCwzqU8trw=; b=o9XIFYhHb7cFF1vHXSUmZDSNfxH6vIlAYjAfoY0gDCvF/aRFHGy+6ele0EtUg5lrKy vSnnt2iZRIKprUFoZlFpA8XX4sNbXBsnwkA4KjQ87d0Ya7ekAGck+O4GvfH0YMWHIr4m cUx+lsL0R3r1VMbNoPgnApxfUx9TMRY9wXk5f3SSCDhkZdGFpN10VI/QZ/SrnqS/41VJ qVa7dVqEJVrzurlF9fd0tBiMQMPkKGh4wwwCVZuKUk/toh+f3F6j6vBtHUkV1BOzRV/L 3TqlqPYVCNwbMa8r4iRekZp2eYzi1p5bDEa3x4IlQmW6JxUjRvm0tD+89WjrUTxqSKY+ a78A== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPDrOOd7lBfoj3xMRG84kIUeIPDFO6Vwp7sHhyYW2gQn5XMn+ByF z41BCsw92kz2Ol9J/BbaKiC6zg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x226mrIL/ZTcjoh282r3LLjBw2Ctj38FcCzTp4WPtSssVtyvnF5S6DzyXedRL3+vCQgiouTmd3g== X-Received: by 10.107.138.13 with SMTP id m13mr10128065iod.81.1518053061384; Wed, 07 Feb 2018 17:24:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from zebian (cbl-45-2-119-34.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca. [45.2.119.34]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 27sm2910672ios.42.2018.02.07.17.24.19 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 07 Feb 2018 17:24:20 -0800 (PST) From: Noam Postavsky To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#30349: 27.0.50; Cuonfusing documentation about pipe processes References: <87zi4ndjlz.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <83tvuu7oxo.fsf@gnu.org> <87shaee2t8.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <83lgg66j8f.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2018 20:24:17 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Noam Postavsky's message of "Tue, 6 Feb 2018 19:05:54 -0500") Message-ID: <87lgg4e0ji.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 30349 Cc: Philipp Stephani , 30349@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) tags 30349 fixed close 30349 26.1 quit Noam Postavsky writes: > I see it's also in start-process-shell-command, where it could refer > to shell redirection, so maybe it was copied from there? > Although, IMO, even in start-process-shell-command it doesn't really > make much sense: if you use shell redirection you haven't stopped the > output from going into BUFFER, there just happens not to be any > output. I've removed the phrase from several other make/start-foo functions, I left it in start-process-shell-command, since it could make sense there. [1: 04c5bd5b1f]: 2018-02-07 20:17:50 -0500 Doc fixes for process functions (Bug#30349) https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=04c5bd5b1f1dc07994d70caa640a07da6b5a54b5 From unknown Sat Aug 16 00:34:05 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2018 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator