From unknown Tue Aug 19 21:51:55 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#29907 <29907@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#29907 <29907@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 25.3; Easy PG should warn users that passphrases are not cached forever Reply-To: bug#29907 <29907@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2025 04:51:55 +0000 retitle 29907 25.3; Easy PG should warn users that passphrases are not cach= ed forever reassign 29907 emacs submitter 29907 John Williams severity 29907 normal tag 29907 fixed thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 29 21:19:24 2017 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Dec 2017 02:19:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57104 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eV6k4-0000RK-GX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 21:19:24 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46894) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eV6k0-0000R4-Bs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 21:19:18 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eV6jo-0002ys-Ms for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 21:19:11 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE,LOTS_OF_MONEY,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:33438) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eV6jo-0002yh-J7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 21:19:04 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37730) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eV6jh-0007rR-72 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 21:19:04 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eV6ja-0002ms-B6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 21:18:57 -0500 Received: from mail-wm0-x230.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c09::230]:41532) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eV6jZ-0002le-PN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 21:18:50 -0500 Received: by mail-wm0-x230.google.com with SMTP id g75so50847100wme.0 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 18:18:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=qdfU536O0sQtMp+/qIrn55N+21ayDHqzYQ+ChKlw4bY=; b=jWfbPXjQBKPOMfwhlOc71EW2QISgGiZldmAMSE89BZcQzNNNUmh0QI+cFp+FmH7+RK zBpCjGHSmeQnvreJ31nkkF4MrRIykfnKefFeqYljgqCpBuCMQ0YeAVWVU5WT/TUGbolc +tqbsBm7uR3vyQKOnHwjkwPvlOtc+xUYdCVW14NStPMZX/7ZJEwq1j/eWsUGDl4xNXEk Jil3xtkHQ7dF0LORDgTpcuDrtjK6PM5zn7wiM+MLtC0RPMkV0RdDrC1H/EBi7O5RimN+ 2fTRLsny2MCurJ9f3xJNnchDwSZj+Pd/S+RZEmgr5TKt5Rjckp6/q2WPRbfMQg30oZR3 4tAw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=qdfU536O0sQtMp+/qIrn55N+21ayDHqzYQ+ChKlw4bY=; b=TY05RaIuLm4H96WoaI2MnjBN9VexPbVVugnAmUixBpXcYKVarmBaX6VFze0b0F26eA GBOjdMvBaD9CoE7omjUx9c0gMpf/W9oMxgF5GsEj3nW8NSoffjlfWZwNlrPTT7uqrBxN 8UEyBY9rPJ7eumtmk+eQOwr2C54KojsLWncRvzP0I6GFiC3k2RoLDojtGLP2xcNDY7XL vmFuFu26mQFJd2OAEWGGMrarZCM9Ol1JFfTvrhd1JJAhbVTgH1v2+0B3KWKDCmewsBqU vHNIyl7gXtZYr/isN0ZS/AxuGgsOd//AMFSwBKp9r0KujIAtVvY0H3hAGNBScpgstPSf GQgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mKY6ZIoMJT5w3pR50lZfxbB+a1QurVd0ZUo13A29wC/AIHE+CEg D8QGMX6K40z88/dpPgy8REcYVp+lFylGVXUGslU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBotl0X5a6NRdptduYfErN59rTHpgHustDofV+d3af/3t/b3HZ9/HqIoymt2tyZVIqTfnCCdpJetsSjOK/23nKrw= X-Received: by 10.28.222.132 with SMTP id v126mr28550943wmg.127.1514600326970; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 18:18:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Williams Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 02:18:36 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: 25.3; Easy PG should warn users that passphrases are not cached forever To: "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114b1c787741e90561855e3b" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) --001a114b1c787741e90561855e3b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I encrypted a file using Easy PG. When I did so, I specified a pass phrase via a window manager pop-up dialog and checked the option to save the pass phrase in the "keyring". I am using GNOME, so I assumed that the "keyring" in question was Seahorse. I opened the file again and was not prompted for the pass phrase. I was happy. I rebooted to see if the cache was ephemeral, and lo, it was not. I was happy. A few days later, I attempted to open the file again, and was prompted for the password. I had forgotten it, and now there is no way to access the contents of the file. I am very sad, because the contents of the file are worth about $20,000 to me. Mea culpa. I should not have trusted software for such an important task without reading the manual. But after reading the manual, I find no mention that the pass phrase caching is ephemeral. After much Googling, I found out about gpg-agent and max-cache-ttl. I don't think it's reasonable to expect users to read long manuals, or already be experts in underlying technology, in order to use simple functionality. I also think the the dialog that prompts for a pass phrase should inform the user about default-cache-ttl and max-cache-ttl. I also think the dialog, and the manual, should emphasise very strongly that pass phrases are not cached forever. Thanks for Easy PG, and thanks for Emacs! A grateful but very sad user In GNU Emacs 25.3.1 (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.19) of 2017-09-15 built on buildvm-31.phx2.fedoraproject.org Windowing system distributor 'Fedora Project', version 11.0.11905000 System Description: Fedora release 27 (Twenty Seven) Configured using: 'configure --build=x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu --host=x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu --program-prefix= --disable-dependency-tracking --prefix=/usr --exec-prefix=/usr --bindir=/usr/bin --sbindir=/usr/sbin --sysconfdir=/etc --datadir=/usr/share --includedir=/usr/include --libdir=/usr/lib64 --libexecdir=/usr/libexec --localstatedir=/var --sharedstatedir=/var/lib --mandir=/usr/share/man --infodir=/usr/share/info --with-dbus --with-gif --with-jpeg --with-png --with-rsvg --with-tiff --with-xft --with-xpm --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 --with-gpm=no --with-xwidgets --with-modules build_alias=x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu host_alias=x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu 'CFLAGS=-DMAIL_USE_LOCKF -O2 -g -pipe -Wall -Werror=format-security -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -fexceptions -fstack-protector-strong --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -grecord-gcc-switches -specs=/usr/lib/rpm/redhat/redhat-hardened-cc1 -m64 -mtune=generic' LDFLAGS=-Wl,-z,relro PKG_CONFIG_PATH=:/usr/lib64/pkgconfig:/usr/share/pkgconfig' Configured features: XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND DBUS GCONF GSETTINGS NOTIFY ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 MODULES XWIDGETS Important settings: value of $LANG: en_NZ.UTF-8 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=ibus locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Org Minor modes in effect: flyspell-mode: t org-bullets-mode: t override-global-mode: t savehist-mode: t recentf-mode: t helm-mode: t async-bytecomp-package-mode: t desktop-save-mode: 1 show-paren-mode: t shell-dirtrack-mode: t tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t column-number-mode: t line-number-mode: t auto-fill-function: org-auto-fill-function transient-mark-mode: t Recent messages: (No changes need to be saved) Decrypting /home/john/Documents/Investment/Blockchain/keys.gpg...done epa-file--find-file-not-found-function: Opening input file: Decryption failed, Quit [5 times] (No changes need to be saved) Saving file /home/john/Documents/Investment/Blockchain/credentials.org... Wrote /home/john/Documents/Investment/Blockchain/credentials.org Saving file /home/john/Documents/Investment/Blockchain/credentials.org... 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(intervals 56 5074 2609) (buffers 976 45)) --001a114b1c787741e90561855e3b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I encrypted a file using Easy PG. When I did so, I specifi= ed a pass
phrase via a window manager pop-up dialog and checked the opti= on to save
the pass phrase in the "keyring". I am using GNOME,= so I assumed that
the "keyring" in question was Seahorse.
=
I opened the file again and was not prompted for the pass phrase. I was=
happy. I rebooted to see if the cache was ephemeral, and lo, it was
= not. I was happy.

A few days later, I attempted to open the file aga= in, and was prompted
for the password. I had forgotten it, and now there= is no way to access
the contents of the file. I am very sad, because th= e contents of the
file are worth about $20,000 to me.

Mea culpa. = I should not have trusted software for such an important task
without re= ading the manual. But after reading the manual, I find no
mention that t= he pass phrase caching is ephemeral. After much Googling,
I found out ab= out gpg-agent and max-cache-ttl.

I don't think it's reasonab= le to expect users to read long manuals, or
already be experts in underl= ying technology, in order to use simple
functionality. I also think the = the dialog that prompts for a pass
phrase should inform the user about d= efault-cache-ttl and max-cache-ttl.

I also think the dialog, and the= manual, should emphasise very strongly
that pass phrases are not cached= forever.

Thanks for Easy PG, and thanks for Emacs!

A gratefu= l but very sad user



In GNU Emacs 25.3.1 (x86_64-redhat-linux= -gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.19)
=C2=A0of 2017-09-15 built on buildvm-31.phx2.fedoraproject.org=
Windowing system distributor 'Fedora Project', version 11.0.119= 05000
System Description:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Fedora release 27 (Twenty Se= ven)

Configured using:
=C2=A0'configure --build=3Dx86_64-redh= at-linux-gnu
=C2=A0--host=3Dx86_64-redhat-linux-gnu --program-prefix=3D<= br>=C2=A0--disable-dependency-tracking --prefix=3D/usr --exec-prefix=3D/usr=
=C2=A0--bindir=3D/usr/bin --sbindir=3D/usr/sbin --sysconfdir=3D/etc
= =C2=A0--datadir=3D/usr/share --includedir=3D/usr/include --libdir=3D/usr/li= b64
=C2=A0--libexecdir=3D/usr/libexec --localstatedir=3D/var
=C2=A0--= sharedstatedir=3D/var/lib --mandir=3D/usr/share/man
=C2=A0--infodir=3D/u= sr/share/info --with-dbus --with-gif --with-jpeg --with-png
=C2=A0--with= -rsvg --with-tiff --with-xft --with-xpm --with-x-toolkit=3Dgtk3
=C2=A0--= with-gpm=3Dno --with-xwidgets --with-modules
=C2=A0build_alias=3Dx86_64-= redhat-linux-gnu host_alias=3Dx86_64-redhat-linux-gnu
=C2=A0'CFLAGS= =3D-DMAIL_USE_LOCKF -O2 -g -pipe -Wall -Werror=3Dformat-security
=C2=A0-= Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=3D2 -fexceptions -fstack-protector-strong
=C2=A0--p= aram=3Dssp-buffer-size=3D4 -grecord-gcc-switches
=C2=A0-specs=3D/usr/lib= /rpm/redhat/redhat-hardened-cc1 -m64 -mtune=3Dgeneric'
=C2=A0LDFLAGS= =3D-Wl,-z,relro
=C2=A0PKG_CONFIG_PATH=3D:/usr/lib64/pkgconfig:/usr/share= /pkgconfig'

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG I= MAGEMAGICK SOUND DBUS GCONF GSETTINGS NOTIFY
ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXM= L2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 MODULE= S XWIDGETS

Important settings:
=C2=A0 value of $LANG: en_NZ.UTF-8=
=C2=A0 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=3Dibus
=C2=A0 locale-coding-system:= utf-8-unix

Major mode: Org

Minor modes in effect:
=C2=A0 = flyspell-mode: t
=C2=A0 org-bullets-mode: t
=C2=A0 override-global-mo= de: t
=C2=A0 savehist-mode: t
=C2=A0 recentf-mode: t
=C2=A0 helm-m= ode: t
=C2=A0 async-bytecomp-package-mode: t
=C2=A0 desktop-save-mode= : 1
=C2=A0 show-paren-mode: t
=C2=A0 shell-dirtrack-mode: t
=C2=A0= tooltip-mode: t
=C2=A0 global-eldoc-mode: t
=C2=A0 electric-indent-m= ode: t
=C2=A0 mouse-wheel-mode: t
=C2=A0 tool-bar-mode: t
=C2=A0 m= enu-bar-mode: t
=C2=A0 file-name-shadow-mode: t
=C2=A0 global-font-lo= ck-mode: t
=C2=A0 font-lock-mode: t
=C2=A0 blink-cursor-mode: t
= =C2=A0 auto-composition-mode: t
=C2=A0 auto-encryption-mode: t
=C2=A0= auto-compression-mode: t
=C2=A0 column-number-mode: t
=C2=A0 line-nu= mber-mode: t
=C2=A0 auto-fill-function: org-auto-fill-function
=C2=A0= transient-mark-mode: t

Recent messages:
(No changes need to be s= aved)
Decrypting /home/john/Documents/Investment/Blockchain/keys.gpg...d= one
epa-file--find-file-not-found-function: Opening input file: Decrypti= on failed,
Quit [5 times]
(No changes need to be saved)
Saving fi= le /home/john/Documents/Investment/Blockchain/credentials.org...
Wrote /= home/john/Documents/Investment/Blockchain/credentials.org
Saving file /home/john/Documents/Investment/Blockc= hain/credentials.org...
Wrote /home/john/Documents/Investment/Blockchain= /credentials.org
(No changes need= to be saved)

Load-path shadows:
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/home/john/Dropbox/Emacs/.emacs.d/el= pa/org-20171030/ob-ref hides /usr/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-ref
/home= /john/Dropbox/Emacs/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171030/org-entities hides /usr/shar= e/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-entities
/home/john/Dropbox/Emacs/.emacs.d/elp= a/org-20171030/ob-fortran hides /usr/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-fortran/home/john/Dropbox/Emacs/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171030/org-timer hides /usr/= share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-timer
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/home/john/Dropbox/Emacs/.emacs.d/elpa/org-= 20171030/ob-comint hides /usr/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-comint
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Features:
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winner helm-command helm-elisp helm-eval edebug helm-info epa-file=
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use-package-dimi= nish use-package-bind-key bind-key use-package-core
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emms-playli= st-mode emms-player-vlc emms-player-mplayer
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format-spec advice ess-mode ess-noweb-mode ess-utils ess-generics cl = gv
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dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-rend= er-setting xwidget-internal
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Memory information:
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--001a114b1c787741e90561855e3b-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 28 11:29:56 2018 Received: (at 29907) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2018 16:29:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46414 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1efpq7-00045d-QP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 11:29:56 -0500 Received: from mail-it0-f42.google.com ([209.85.214.42]:36757) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1efpq5-00045Q-VV for 29907@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 11:29:54 -0500 Received: by mail-it0-f42.google.com with SMTP id n206so4228764itg.1 for <29907@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 08:29:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=6qRS/f2uNiiMLJFnnqzdpQHsUCaH/ouezqcDxSRCwcs=; b=WNKJc0YgpikXbeRFi9HcG/vStCtXkHb/busxe1Usp0o4GLauG2RzDVRY0BCYtqBSVQ 0Wn17V0x9IXDAaWV8CUPMi3E2+1bvMwOXhOW8EicNbWvqrLNnMOZ2C6PPg5f4ijxiI0V 3h/np56o8tX1w2/RB6WxtUS1XwH3Ep367i1facfkNyjuW7cx7D7qXuI/mGBBlrykZxRE q6mzeyJHM5KopLzGhltRLaeeFBCWvh/GWa7sZzJEqoa/wb4/6ENNESf08+kc+IV1afIg Tpb0ghnqqQpxy0A0mt8E7jA8nJdKn+ANoZTSmT+7JanW9fqldvDl1ae8L2P4afEHteBd 5Vsg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=6qRS/f2uNiiMLJFnnqzdpQHsUCaH/ouezqcDxSRCwcs=; b=hCH+HCcLaVHZFotqqBuFuS70nlfG1Pc9bf4C3Oj1w5368pzvtE1PZ1AggFwEY9NPUO g0PJj930WqKiTMDQ7v2OEsfhtHRh5BdsZKx8kO69Pjeq/2kTAMYIQ4n2SVqrqYLEpEcU EjIndoN5yJJSfcon/ewB5JNiaFuV1B9gmBzweZlDYXVV6el56tt+kgNLvpTPW5E3R2kT p/lBmTgl3PcqOaCxzbYR9XK3vsvLFMxI9i1J9aXbap9u+EbrKAyhDD7/RHrBTiZ9hraN RLwYi7eoP67nuGPUcd0JXTg46eqQ8lQZ8Qn5CgbJmLSrukVcZVVbyBT858uRSxeXQgY6 v6GQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytezEjUg8NPzY3Dk2xKhgOWb21jbqlQt8xRa4uh4R7M3DbPGR+QB NWzkV/+M2V7Qiz1B8JVFL/FwKQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x227yaYuThnjlNJeQ/jVAhqcrWPS80TLoc6AkXnFZy2lax1d7M0ba3tgBxEuWFccBJYCUw8cDcQ== X-Received: by 10.36.217.131 with SMTP id p125mr5230355itg.62.1517156988146; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 08:29:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from zebian ([45.2.119.34]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id m71sm2977726iom.70.2018.01.28.08.29.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 28 Jan 2018 08:29:46 -0800 (PST) From: Noam Postavsky To: John Williams Subject: Re: bug#29907: 25.3; Easy PG should warn users that passphrases are not cached forever References: Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 11:29:45 -0500 In-Reply-To: (John Williams's message of "Sat, 30 Dec 2017 02:18:36 +0000") Message-ID: <87mv0ykkue.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29907 Cc: 29907@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) John Williams writes: > I encrypted a file using Easy PG. When I did so, I specified a pass > phrase via a window manager pop-up dialog and checked the option to > save the pass phrase in the "keyring". I am using GNOME, so I assumed > that the "keyring" in question was Seahorse. > > I opened the file again and was not prompted for the pass phrase. I > was happy. I rebooted to see if the cache was ephemeral, and lo, it > was not. I was happy. > > A few days later, I attempted to open the file again, and was prompted > for the password. I had forgotten it, and now there is no way to > access the contents of the file. I am very sad, because the contents > of the file are worth about $20,000 to me. Hmm, I don't think gpg-agent caches over reboots, so I wonder what saved your pass phrase the first time. > Mea culpa. I should not have trusted software for such an important > task without reading the manual. But after reading the manual, I find > no mention that the pass phrase caching is ephemeral. After much > Googling, I found out about gpg-agent and max-cache-ttl. > > I don't think it's reasonable to expect users to read long manuals, or > already be experts in underlying technology, in order to use simple > functionality. I also think the the dialog that prompts for a pass > phrase should inform the user about default-cache-ttl and > max-cache-ttl. > > I also think the dialog, and the manual, should emphasise very > strongly that pass phrases are not cached forever. I somewhat feel that the term "cache" already implies temporary, but saying it explicitly shouldn't hurt I guess. Emacs is not in control of the dialog at all, so we cannot affect that. --- i/doc/misc/epa.texi +++ w/doc/misc/epa.texi @@ -474,7 +474,9 @@ Caching Passphrases Typing passphrases is a troublesome task if you frequently open and close the same file. GnuPG and EasyPG Assistant provide mechanisms to -remember your passphrases. However, the configuration is a bit +remember your passphrases for a limited time. Using these, you only +need to re-enter the passphrase occasionally. +However, the configuration is a bit confusing since it depends on your GnuPG installation@xref{GnuPG version compatibility}, encryption method (symmetric or public key), and whether or not you want to use gpg-agent. Here are some From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 28 13:31:46 2018 Received: (at 29907) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2018 18:31:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46461 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1efrk2-0006st-Dr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 13:31:46 -0500 Received: from mail-wr0-f174.google.com ([209.85.128.174]:33934) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1efrk0-0006se-KY for 29907@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 13:31:45 -0500 Received: by mail-wr0-f174.google.com with SMTP id 36so4847185wrh.1 for <29907@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 10:31:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=V4b0AuEZ+ItqbcMgQhNPS2i0LrMkmZp28EmcioNUnsM=; b=HYT9VgIak513UJOTLsNIo/zjS6r6LnX/nOq4lmPuhNuazEfgK4piz8Ok9tVhwlCwAK Ex+QV0pJVj8rpnoT1FbCjIksL760H5jmruSzO5YMdwCRoF+yjXZUHakPIY+1g+pluzcT 8kRmpUZSSfd1fdYvuL+3DC0F/IWm4lKJ+bV4dTLR+I8qphsYnwYQzociXoLcGLI47guE +c8bT/QOC6cr1/tNzBStBwD8AYLPd+LFWjMpnNCbtB3otegOv04oFq9kL4JdnWYpX0T+ oM796QrPHQZRCcOhNDHPUY1BHrYu4jruwdm8MgJdJDTDFZIHK8TnPnrpTUNZJ6AVaQls tGyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=V4b0AuEZ+ItqbcMgQhNPS2i0LrMkmZp28EmcioNUnsM=; b=tPMgc+wMCBNtptJvBTBlmenxRBvJCTxleRtMlVzBRhJMlppgJCNCov/0wV+j1xoQE3 a4k8oZFNQNIX4kXlU4ArWeEvW7fAqj9AckNVBn52tMjbRjTOgH1vlbi7wTegQGf/F1Ov cp/h6OPJvDu+1FI95USxCTTcI7vv6tDwjq/bHoBg9O0q1810LfTdP/XvoserAzw9OXo7 nI2X6bwf2suoiLf2/suLNg6v/PQBLhEIJQS74ls9278jPGJ9MeSni3AhvT0sBr/hYsO7 BzIzuvZFs3SHokbUNMd0sk9G5FgXCsEv14mfvbsOmh2qQ8YOb+hlpCIF8Ah0vIWIVMZK Ze1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytcIGPmwWthTE/SRPyN5IWv1evK4+2SqixwyoaI24B37LoJQ4eBH mohBtJl+LC9NE3+l/HK2Rf4L9dZeSUP4woTjifY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x227q1a63kJPCTnAxwOReCl/XhSFTcdYLldXwVCb4Muk9wnU7zRDEvinEhH5+PlezxMfswO8KVEP+jDOMtVBah/Y= X-Received: by 10.223.142.105 with SMTP id n96mr361362wrb.54.1517164298829; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 10:31:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87mv0ykkue.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> In-Reply-To: <87mv0ykkue.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> From: John Williams Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:31:28 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#29907: 25.3; Easy PG should warn users that passphrases are not cached forever To: Noam Postavsky Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045d5b641906bf0563da575e" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29907 Cc: 29907@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --f403045d5b641906bf0563da575e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks! On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 at 05:29 Noam Postavsky wrote: > John Williams writes: > > > I encrypted a file using Easy PG. When I did so, I specified a pass > > phrase via a window manager pop-up dialog and checked the option to > > save the pass phrase in the "keyring". I am using GNOME, so I assumed > > that the "keyring" in question was Seahorse. > > > > I opened the file again and was not prompted for the pass phrase. I > > was happy. I rebooted to see if the cache was ephemeral, and lo, it > > was not. I was happy. > > > > A few days later, I attempted to open the file again, and was prompted > > for the password. I had forgotten it, and now there is no way to > > access the contents of the file. I am very sad, because the contents > > of the file are worth about $20,000 to me. > > Hmm, I don't think gpg-agent caches over reboots, so I wonder what saved > your pass phrase the first time. > > > Mea culpa. I should not have trusted software for such an important > > task without reading the manual. But after reading the manual, I find > > no mention that the pass phrase caching is ephemeral. After much > > Googling, I found out about gpg-agent and max-cache-ttl. > > > > I don't think it's reasonable to expect users to read long manuals, or > > already be experts in underlying technology, in order to use simple > > functionality. I also think the the dialog that prompts for a pass > > phrase should inform the user about default-cache-ttl and > > max-cache-ttl. > > > > I also think the dialog, and the manual, should emphasise very > > strongly that pass phrases are not cached forever. > > I somewhat feel that the term "cache" already implies temporary, but > saying it explicitly shouldn't hurt I guess. Emacs is not in control of > the dialog at all, so we cannot affect that. > > --- i/doc/misc/epa.texi > +++ w/doc/misc/epa.texi > @@ -474,7 +474,9 @@ Caching Passphrases > > Typing passphrases is a troublesome task if you frequently open and > close the same file. GnuPG and EasyPG Assistant provide mechanisms to > -remember your passphrases. However, the configuration is a bit > +remember your passphrases for a limited time. Using these, you only > +need to re-enter the passphrase occasionally. > +However, the configuration is a bit > confusing since it depends on your GnuPG installation@xref{GnuPG > version compatibility}, encryption method (symmetric or public key), > and whether or not you want to use gpg-agent. Here are some > --f403045d5b641906bf0563da575e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks!=C2=A0

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 at 05:29 Noam Postavsky <npostavs@users.sourceforge.net> wrot= e:
John Williams <johnfrombluff@gmail.com&= gt; writes:

> I encrypted a file using Easy PG. When I did so, I specified a pass > phrase via a window manager pop-up dialog and checked the option to > save the pass phrase in the "keyring". I am using GNOME, so = I assumed
> that the "keyring" in question was Seahorse.
>
> I opened the file again and was not prompted for the pass phrase. I > was happy. I rebooted to see if the cache was ephemeral, and lo, it > was not. I was happy.
>
> A few days later, I attempted to open the file again, and was prompted=
> for the password. I had forgotten it, and now there is no way to
> access the contents of the file. I am very sad, because the contents > of the file are worth about $20,000 to me.

Hmm, I don't think gpg-agent caches over reboots, so I wonder what save= d
your pass phrase the first time.

> Mea culpa. I should not have trusted software for such an important > task without reading the manual. But after reading the manual, I find<= br> > no mention that the pass phrase caching is ephemeral. After much
> Googling, I found out about gpg-agent and max-cache-ttl.
>
> I don't think it's reasonable to expect users to read long man= uals, or
> already be experts in underlying technology, in order to use simple > functionality. I also think the the dialog that prompts for a pass
> phrase should inform the user about default-cache-ttl and
> max-cache-ttl.
>
> I also think the dialog, and the manual, should emphasise very
> strongly that pass phrases are not cached forever.

I somewhat feel that the term "cache" already implies temporary, = but
saying it explicitly shouldn't hurt I guess.=C2=A0 Emacs is not in cont= rol of
the dialog at all, so we cannot affect that.

--- i/doc/misc/epa.texi
+++ w/doc/misc/epa.texi
@@ -474,7 +474,9 @@ Caching Passphrases

=C2=A0Typing passphrases is a troublesome task if you frequently open and =C2=A0close the same file.=C2=A0 GnuPG and EasyPG Assistant provide mechani= sms to
-remember your passphrases.=C2=A0 However, the configuration is a bit
+remember your passphrases for a limited time.=C2=A0 Using these, you only<= br> +need to re-enter the passphrase occasionally.
+However, the configuration is a bit
=C2=A0confusing since it depends on your GnuPG installation@xref{GnuPG
=C2=A0version compatibility}, encryption method (symmetric or public key),<= br> =C2=A0and whether or not you want to use gpg-agent.=C2=A0 Here are some
--f403045d5b641906bf0563da575e-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 30 22:37:07 2018 Received: (at 29907) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2018 03:37:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50092 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egjCt-0003bR-Bp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 22:37:07 -0500 Received: from mail-it0-f50.google.com ([209.85.214.50]:33932) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egjCn-0003ah-Es; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 22:37:01 -0500 Received: by mail-it0-f50.google.com with SMTP id m11so4634628iti.1; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 19:37:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=M8uvm8QJWJ72EYVZAqTX7jjp6Ghy1DgO8Ja9+f81sUY=; b=ufOALBK0YYqL4S8MqKCKSywCAo/z1ryifozgrdYmKYZEU/zO+UC8IkwlBtyTsj1RvT Pdlj0wTzTQ7qYphLuOF06P2N7Is2Gk8ZRdq3GyVE5nnddK8Qh3jIsuPwzRfno1zokTSb za2XY+v2gdssRrvlk4DJDf80GgvFY5eWJ6mnVfEx+v5MOd795sKJEQOVE9KoIw0tNaux fgEVfDwSNnrEDKz153B9K3w9KZi74pqKo3LQaXH76nGyUaw2TbapdMlZWj189a8m2eIi FysL15miV/u98l+tgxsazs6sKNHNN6ptzOz2Lgtr9LZpQnzI6PxHEKur0xAxgFryBPQk o1Hg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=M8uvm8QJWJ72EYVZAqTX7jjp6Ghy1DgO8Ja9+f81sUY=; b=dqW3mgqpd52UIJTZtBNOPaBBIF5epkmyhV3D5bJxr7S4o6v2Cv7ynMeRboCkzzPZ99 1T0S2TNk6Q4BjLCDDQMi6dYGyKsO1T4Y39wUM7TytUFDO0sFehjVhnrqTaDuV2Usu7nf 8R+hKckbrgtsKx+kCAKQj8ANxGt5fUMEYP3YQ3NXOB7ePEeT4hZWhFr6ne5qqUw/zwrr C0AXlJqgxqEPHQ9VSyd8fo8xOBCgDx2Syoims7RTNoAVnJ4+gn+mNTEILifpIzbseeCW dSk7eoehlWdALhxLH4ONKLLjAACNrCQveRrCi1BWjZeDoXRH9g6cFru3vQIm4K+PMCNG 7c0A== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxyteY69OLRdRZiRLOQTmwVlewT6Eo1Gj9AvOS+JFpYcqCC/2sAPqx nFwcV4gED0/GA9X6fRjF6MJAug== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x224N+Bfegs2MRwqLWC60Exwk7B4/H56WTK3tk/SV+Erp+dEua5gTsArACsaLUwjMIak88ZmIEg== X-Received: by 10.36.63.73 with SMTP id d70mr2275247ita.96.1517369815670; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 19:36:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from zebian ([45.2.119.34]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id o73sm2448493ito.4.2018.01.30.19.36.53 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 30 Jan 2018 19:36:54 -0800 (PST) From: Noam Postavsky To: John Williams Subject: Re: bug#29907: 25.3; Easy PG should warn users that passphrases are not cached forever References: <87mv0ykkue.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 22:36:52 -0500 In-Reply-To: (John Williams's message of "Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:31:28 +0000") Message-ID: <87a7wuitrf.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29907 Cc: 29907@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.2 (/) tags 29907 fixed close 29907 26.1 quit John Williams writes: > Thanks!=C2=A0 > =C2=A0close the same file.=C2=A0 GnuPG and EasyPG Assistant provide m= echanisms to > -remember your passphrases.=C2=A0 However, the configuration is a bit > +remember your passphrases for a limited time.=C2=A0 Using these, you= only > +need to re-enter the passphrase occasionally. Pushed to emacs-26 [1: 9e6889c65a]: 2018-01-30 22:14:02 -0500 Emphasize that GPG passphrase caching is temporary (Bug#29907) https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=3D9e6889c65af15b80= db3f19064a765c1d3a198b87 From unknown Tue Aug 19 21:51:55 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator