From unknown Sat Aug 09 04:55:02 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#29805 <29805@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#29805 <29805@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 27.0; doc of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' Reply-To: bug#29805 <29805@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2025 11:55:02 +0000 retitle 29805 27.0; doc of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' reassign 29805 emacs submitter 29805 Drew Adams severity 29805 wishlist tag 29805 notabug thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 21 17:06:19 2017 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2017 22:06:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46564 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eS8yp-0002Bx-LE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 17:06:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58821) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eS8yn-0002Bk-JO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Thu, 21 Dec 2017 17:06:07 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id vBLM4xaT152270 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 22:06:04 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2017-10-26; bh=oY4P9dhEPAhEJaQK0GeqsA4pSTvNBtSx/2vYaDixKNo=; b=HX8QdINLBIkxLEoZVMEnJwQsulyR9gbgAMkLgBBkXWjy4aaH1NRdZv8n3SXA7xuRNHqa O70GZ0mdb3TCbp+SHCfoBuJxsIBGPxvKyomFmMt+sKzI8JhNckfXKkztEj2oR4DWu/GN lx1lJMDbzynFxT/ceGyC00LV3U+ewW4U4lvlbq12dfeP5WiIYqCEq+tLBRZFoGzt12Tp lczHGFYpcG31BrwN1Ohlp4jvGfRVnjorSbZvAdiNb9yHsJ3bZtGnCuaRYrJvs9Yxii34 5R6JTCFr3WdyWMVz7SY7RncD2lCEq6+6f0nTiGakecM+0St8DLFN+8YFwxtj4uRdp5RI 0w== Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2f0neg806e-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 22:06:03 +0000 Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id vBLM62Yc009327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 22:06:02 GMT Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id vBLM62nu002264 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 22:06:02 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 14:06:00 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 27.0; doc of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4627.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8752 signatures=668651 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=1 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=782 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1712210292 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) I don't see where this resizing is done (by grepping Lisp sources), so I suppose it is done in C. In any case, it seems to have no effect, AFAICT, on a standalone minibuffer frame (i.e., on an echo area in such a frame). The doc says nothing about this.. In GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 4, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2017-12-21 Repository revision: b1cf262a79463f28164ea1c2ffee3c657ce02ea4 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install -C 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3' host_alias=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 PKG_CONFIG_PATH=3D/mingw64/lib/pkgconfig' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 22 12:57:25 2017 Received: (at 29805) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Dec 2017 17:57:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48279 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eSRZV-0004CH-6q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 12:57:25 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:64709) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eSRZT-0004C4-3T for 29805@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 12:57:23 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([213.162.73.128]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MZlEg-1ehE3y1SWc-00LYRA; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 18:57:12 +0100 Message-ID: <5A3D4775.2010700@gmx.at> Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 18:57:09 +0100 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Adams , 29805@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#29805: 27.0; doc of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:MC4206D102CKLLgXk4alGQeLst67XPOWPabGrTbotHJNsd7XgMx nEnIoiy35WLyixXY+dSyOe+kw8A+xy5D4L/Nyp7Q4X1YJwbf6ohEECWv1qYtTKZQmDuOAJN uk01I9b30qt6IM3kh0XwMF6yNGCyDM59e0Jf6n/3gzPxXUbO3DwWKuryP8j79/Av3Y2u2xC KQ/qKcBHqghdn2WdW4pLw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:LOTsKMm8ahc=:OBKBtqVIqdE+GlQ1ATQ7b0 UdYFDgYy+RrzKDg107cScICsNnnXulSB3VlOrm5uCXeipUKlNqk7r0xzjyxNAuXZdHPBx/Bqc xUgb1CB8K3g1AVy5phEJnj4N36Amhn58mOiBgnNNSrBjYTfgbAWogT9Kf4S0Ky4hZQQDlveri 4vtbDFDwzsQSDq331gXl4g9hJHaIF/j957JXPWRC3EYml0pqqP3+xkuXWXq+Jazj3gRn9F3A4 Mt8apYCN5sotuI3nurMPlwKAbmLegGeFbenN6L64QKxkzC9fv33KnIKlIBz7aUs/739/9E+Kg Wf0zXNvoaLAz4I0qdIXt/MtON9EwGxn4ATWVqaHSMEWiWZHQzZ/JqWj+zNLC0yGJDxnSamaYS DgMlz9IkeLLkPXau0f58Q8x1iWnGcz4yGu0B8Sbeot+L6AItrlqfygUEdoC/3L8ZiexjMNhRY iKbNbnq/uKKokw7MNPkQNIViOu9qzWzewEClT0u9tyMc+BHdsLDu6ot+8hcjyt0RMShTGuKpA X+or2hONWe4lxChhO+527smkktXnstqJd7wQ6O+lI6MUfgAXss38zNj3qmgpRfQewZWPJqKws vt/StLxwrvTrBElfzvAIsOhSX/VuYCJ4UqYI7JwSneJUpbIHZY7FiHDHeQchYAfhnFJU1h8Vj eu/ApEj+e+pJ6ESNmrEkTMaSNkIPsj36lLWCvlH2hsA9K9amSbzEXh2IlzDbNkOXMkuDRjKqQ EbkHlIASHduTnmQ8bdAE4sL8OlKZrEsC6Kh8d1G5Tq/jfvXFxghYxSwJ+c2dSZ7emyQgc+y6A K4fb+XTlCwuPyYr2O4Uxheeg9aArcslWCr8Q3br6cigGKb7zuuj3kFUqM1fXp3Yav2xUTGj X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29805 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) > In any case, it seems to have no effect, AFAICT, on a standalone > minibuffer frame (i.e., on an echo area in such a frame). The doc says > nothing about this.. I believe we also nowhere say that we do not resize minibuffer/echo areas on stand-alone minibuffer frames. So the question to be answered first is: Do we ever want to fit stand-alone minibuffer frames to their buffers? If so, then we can decide whether we want `tooltip-resize-echo-area' to affect resizing stand-alone minibuffer frames as well and probably also whether showing a tooltip should autoraise the minibuffer frame. But the first question that comes to my mind is why we now have the option `tooltip-resize-echo-area' which, according to its doc-string "has effect only on GUI frames" while in Emacs 24.1 we have declared `tooltip-use-echo-area' obsolete and suggested to disable tooltips instead. Resolved that, we should probably then also say that `tooltip-resize-echo-area' has effect iff `resize-mini-windows' is non-nil. martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 22 14:57:56 2017 Received: (at 29805) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Dec 2017 19:57:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48345 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eSTS8-000712-Cf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 14:57:56 -0500 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:37442) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eSTS6-00070o-8I for 29805@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 14:57:55 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id vBMJufLG130918; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 19:57:48 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2017-10-26; bh=NUfdj4EK3uyebFqudQQxIH0h5Q9YdrR3RMVz1kgf1sY=; b=OtnCmTqndOqp/KMfH2YY6DMLdcej3yAVw89PjXX0zUkORUlY4h6VzX7y9JVAa6hbL7Cp qr5h6JCK2rKLHr9unnsxmEODL2TFTgGR+nHZ0znbiL/wjZ7w4LHulYZn9vijLy2G+ayJ wNWBhSkD7Wv3XjSbDKntox1dO121ea05TG/1QhzgT6fYrbzyACkwiKKXBt4gSzGRotRA hTO1EXxuqsGag/FMWJdRfxelL922d2QvLMMR6LhUcPoDm6zWKxJ2ADffsOQu9kxk/uGR ZyNQxw3IDHERVMjHnQ3KbUtlmnDvCeEJLan+G1MsXMfgh0PRoRR8wlV/DpVG1qXji3EG Ag== Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2f18fq81ua-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Dec 2017 19:57:48 +0000 Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id vBMIi6tm014745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Dec 2017 18:44:07 GMT Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id vBMIi55M025451; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 18:44:06 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7614565b-94d6-40fe-a3d1-cf51235a21bc@default> Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 10:44:04 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: martin rudalics , 29805@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#29805: 27.0; doc of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' References: <5A3D4775.2010700@gmx.at> In-Reply-To: <5A3D4775.2010700@gmx.at> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4627.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8753 signatures=668650 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=769 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1712220281 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29805 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) > > In any case, it seems to have no effect, AFAICT, on a standalone > > minibuffer frame (i.e., on an echo area in such a frame). The doc > > says nothing about this.. >=20 > I believe we also nowhere say that we do not resize minibuffer/echo > areas on stand-alone minibuffer frames. I believe so too. > So the question to be > answered first is: Do we ever want to fit stand-alone minibuffer > frames to their buffers? Please don't bother for me, anyway. ;-) > If so, then we can decide whether we want > `tooltip-resize-echo-area' to affect resizing stand-alone minibuffer > frames as well and probably also whether showing a tooltip should > autoraise the minibuffer frame. Again, speaking for myself, I don't need any of that. The bug report was really to suggest that such doc about resizing the space for the minibuffer / echo area should not lead people to believe that such resizing resizes a frame. It applies only to a window in a frame that is not minibuffer-only (AFAICT), so that should be made clear. > But the first question that comes to my mind is why we now have the > option `tooltip-resize-echo-area' which, according to its doc-string > "has effect only on GUI frames" while in Emacs 24.1 we have declared > `tooltip-use-echo-area' obsolete and suggested to disable tooltips > instead. 1. No idea why we now have it. 2. The doc string is wrong to refer to `tooltip-use-echo-area'. > Resolved that, we should probably then also say that > `tooltip-resize-echo-area' has effect iff `resize-mini-windows' is > non-nil. And why isn't `resize-mini-windows' enough? Is this about resizing ONLY the echo area and not the minibuffer? (Does that even make sense?) It's all unclear to me. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 23 03:34:04 2017 Received: (at 29805) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Dec 2017 08:34:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48676 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eSfFs-0008I5-KH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 03:34:04 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:49191) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eSfFq-0008HX-6J for 29805@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 03:34:02 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([46.125.250.11]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LtlG5-1fA4aY3aMP-011DHc; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 09:33:51 +0100 Message-ID: <5A3E14EC.3010809@gmx.at> Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 09:33:48 +0100 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Adams , 29805@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#29805: 27.0; doc of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' References: <5A3D4775.2010700@gmx.at> <7614565b-94d6-40fe-a3d1-cf51235a21bc@default> In-Reply-To: <7614565b-94d6-40fe-a3d1-cf51235a21bc@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:JrfGftJEdRzW67OnnpI9Gqx3/WJNuIOJv0BdmEb6hP9vvznAWiv yrSxPA5dkvk8JwnjcjmUqbP4L5Z0hGB8N7u+kytWoRGHfauYwwgohBMICNUPyJXx/aTYsTS uHClr/RJ/EZarGWA4Zf3MLKOorah5tw4IznUuDVLoNCdI1HKLl+zpGuzFszckMa9PPbf14Y qwWHv28HX03WgsLUTDWew== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:UBTguG9N2eM=:p13wLArTFb6hbK8rtxz+hz ZuIb48H14FSvEN2RKr5k5XC3XrOqbt4HZfqTUtFCOUXkJfjC9xZXWdAa6DJFo3B0KEdXVeV/L Lk9L9CQolr+YpQVJk/T6jWHvw2Ztfz0ONFqBGs9eBuagwXqhmaM8hWGwwLvJqvpLzZpWSeMik uNyMGLsLPpKtQIzx09l+hFBCdYknnBgl/uqzKyeaMEqAFpaPzoy18or9FlSdWQYzwbmCpVwXI SFl9ram9fpUsIbXynWFXYW1GF7IiZmiAGmg8lgQW28r6WRYJVRV9dyYOudyq/thTM7E2MmGWU VbMJP61eW9lEIPVrHDTO+MnrjPVjNOCSqvdVwXGy6GnkIOm4mZwrZyvy33R5KnxSELqJbzbM4 Zx0pPTkx+cisCC7OoUMdtPpjWYwm6y0nN/OpncuZ7x8O7rfZgfEO7D/7J6IF0abLT23s8yi7P KI+YqcnYWaiSnjt5BkZERsKslRxOJEODydMNh+HUcuzqdYUWsmSMd74yENUHH7jmmWSsPDjQa YoInUb9xUFNiHkwSBOuPqFvl9KK1csL/YX/wNVxl2ja4frHhdxmEFqfWY1HDLmG3qJ5gf82vC lVRoWUE6sKCfpQQ2/2yrBCdNrLw/Zx3FzM5elydlg2jYeWZoC8dQCYPv0knphxfzc0vaJmVEv QeQRoth9Q01266WhCZZ1/E722nwGU1i02JEpfKr5uh8SSvqfH5R8/pQ7mlCP5IYzqTNLWNEzt xJttbSVvIIio+LYUevorrV7sEnq56kcB+WDDevW2id/kQb2lt6jC7mE+X1VKVm1B8zJGzbYED 5YsP7YPbIojr5NOPkKXzQRNsO0RJ8hDk3wP5dVDx9vd+Y8pzOsJ/8KbPA0hzdPjThT42D/+ X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29805 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) >> So the question to be >> answered first is: Do we ever want to fit stand-alone minibuffer >> frames to their buffers? > > Please don't bother for me, anyway. ;-) If we don't want to, the entire remainder of this discussion is moot. > The bug report was really to suggest that such doc about > resizing the space for the minibuffer / echo area should > not lead people to believe that such resizing resizes a > frame. It applies only to a window in a frame that is > not minibuffer-only (AFAICT), so that should be made clear. Resizing the echo area when showing a tooltip is just a special case of resizing the minibuffer window so any reasonable discussion of the former would have to start with the latter. >> But the first question that comes to my mind is why we now have the >> option `tooltip-resize-echo-area' which, according to its doc-string >> "has effect only on GUI frames" while in Emacs 24.1 we have declared >> `tooltip-use-echo-area' obsolete and suggested to disable tooltips >> instead. > > 1. No idea why we now have it. > 2. The doc string is wrong to refer to `tooltip-use-echo-area'. Which doc string does (2)? >> Resolved that, we should probably then also say that >> `tooltip-resize-echo-area' has effect iff `resize-mini-windows' is >> non-nil. > > And why isn't `resize-mini-windows' enough? Is this about > resizing ONLY the echo area and not the minibuffer? (Does > that even make sense?) > > It's all unclear to me. To me too. I have no idea why we (or at least an Emacs user) should ever have to distinguish betweeen echo area and minibuffer. There's no practical need for that. martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 23 10:20:40 2017 Received: (at 29805) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Dec 2017 15:20:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49501 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eSlbM-0003Gr-A1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 10:20:40 -0500 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:56452) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eSlbL-0003Gf-3R for 29805@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 10:20:39 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id vBNFIqVY177492; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 15:20:32 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2017-10-26; bh=IiQkmpqDdwvAqrUe2GCA+D/EbvH2/lIsr0Uq0Q9Y4Fc=; b=WvDwRRy85vS1bREjy+ZudE3nzfRnSd9bE83Cz92CO6KGbZ9BWuoD3iWEvaatH1BTPGCK wrldopLXT5dA+CXmKKYpGwSrQtcN4K64PIgslyQQHYKrEpw8e2teyPAoEhDXMqTfUwgs ZbT5Zbi3I45MP4Eo9VunSzVE/lW12OM3RG5glw9T0Sppha4NToiSHyI87q3rT7Ly14WG COTPFExHemtQh6gk3I2dNiQTVaw3PeDuzkHFbWqkG6+fbNnMV9gwVdlNt+QWjeEuc0kF JgJJWMiONK3I6Apl0Rfgf2UBw08wrpN1noHtj+4k20drRWsmaTP4N/Hzy0lbu1L0BzWn cA== Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2f1sb2818h-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Dec 2017 15:20:32 +0000 Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id vBNFKWKW029288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Dec 2017 15:20:32 GMT Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id vBNFKTVC022710; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 15:20:31 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 07:20:28 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: martin rudalics , 29805@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#29805: 27.0; doc of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' References: <5A3D4775.2010700@gmx.at> <7614565b-94d6-40fe-a3d1-cf51235a21bc@default> <5A3E14EC.3010809@gmx.at> In-Reply-To: <5A3E14EC.3010809@gmx.at> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4627.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8753 signatures=668650 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1712230211 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29805 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) > >> So the question to be > >> answered first is: Do we ever want to fit stand-alone minibuffer > >> frames to their buffers? > > > > Please don't bother for me, anyway. ;-) >=20 > If we don't want to, the entire remainder of this discussion is moot. I can't speak to what you are discussing, but if "this discussion" means this bug report, then I don't think it is moot. This is the point: > > The bug report was really to suggest that such doc about > > resizing the space for the minibuffer / echo area should > > not lead people to believe that such resizing resizes a > > frame. It applies only to a window in a frame that is > > not minibuffer-only (AFAICT), so that should be made clear. > Resizing the echo area when showing a tooltip is just a special case > of resizing the minibuffer window so any reasonable discussion of the > former would have to start with the latter. I'm not sure what you're arguing (or why you are arguing). Since minibuffer and echo area share the same real estate, of course any talk of resizing that real estate can involve either minibuffer or echo area (depending whether the resizing affects input or output) - or both. But so what? This bug is not about whether or when there should or should not be resizing. It is about the doc, which can (so far) give the impression that this resizing affects this real estate even when a standalone frame is involved - which it does not, AFAIK. > >> But the first question that comes to my mind is why we now have the > >> option `tooltip-resize-echo-area' which, according to its doc-string > >> "has effect only on GUI frames" while in Emacs 24.1 we have declared > >> `tooltip-use-echo-area' obsolete and suggested to disable tooltips > >> instead. > > > > 1. No idea why we now have it. > > 2. The doc string is wrong to refer to `tooltip-use-echo-area'. >=20 > Which doc string does (2)? #2 was a mistake on my part. I don't know why we now have this new option. But that's not what this bug report is about. Clearly, if you decide that we should not add this option then this bug can be closed. But that question is really separate. I can't speak to it; perhaps someone else can. But if you and whoever decide to keep this new option then please look into this doc bug. That's all. As for why Emacs might want to provide such an option (note: I'm not requesting such an option): As the entry in NEWS says: to avoid truncating help text (it says "tooltip text") in the echo area. It's not clear to me, but I get the impression that you might be thinking that just because option `tooltip-use-echo-area' is obsolete tooltip/help text is no longer displayed in the echo area. That's not the case at all. I (and many others, I imagine) turn off `tooltip-mode' so that such text is shown in the echo area. It is not such display that was made obsolete; it is only option `tooltip-use-echo-area' that is obsolete. So I can understand why someone might have added this option. But as I say, I'm not arguing for or against having this new option. My point is that its doc should not let users mistakenly get the impression that this option has some effect in the case of a standalone minibuffer frame. As for whether option `resize-mini-windows' should be sufficient to cover this: I can't speak to that. Presumably someone wanted to be able to resize the echo area (output) without also resizing the minibuffer (input)? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 23 14:07:58 2017 Received: (at 29805) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Dec 2017 19:07:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49547 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eSp9K-0000cH-AT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 14:07:58 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:63507) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eSp9I-0000c5-Iz for 29805@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 14:07:57 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([213.162.73.128]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx001 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LaGJa-1epCLU0r7e-00m6oN; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 20:07:46 +0100 Message-ID: <5A3EA97E.9060501@gmx.at> Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 20:07:42 +0100 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Adams , 29805@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#29805: 27.0; doc of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' References: <5A3D4775.2010700@gmx.at> <7614565b-94d6-40fe-a3d1-cf51235a21bc@default> <5A3E14EC.3010809@gmx.at> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:0p3mSQVbE4vZ/JWJpWxV1IfKvdHmVHMCtyaaQWU6+j0fm/2ag9s AvIB4ughl9EpEmqumDEYsK41XtS7WhxOVYsssOibNNFCjCUbxLNdON1h9t+qfTlUxy6C3NF AOdqDPQ+vScJtzVYOyDK3nLdyHu6hF6tKJebRiFKghOE8saLnleKpB7UCIWOAyLNVcgubuy vobi8kpANhNO3UQQ3yXrw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:Pd+Ce5t+cgc=:d6oOwD/uNzidYHLgqJif0U tFGq4tWJiv47DOE/kNnxZFq3zYOXwSi1jWHFhdFIqs2Fpj8H3/i4FfKwYrsMU7g7IGqfzPfAh pOjI/vEGNpW5q3AG65XKaO/yxwo+ERdOumIhx7kGn+5A81Nss1VuGTbBI0X+L0rnUHKyDdiZk SCSCxYKlw0PDrKFDhtsnBcJ/P6FI1DzcDUCfJDb+ar42dGDlh7scdmdkcEE2x6XaTLPBLfVvr 8IcGhMOR+KNWDeVnr8j7aly0Si7+k/01ZbVs5Thr/Pq2B+ae+kVC30EmAA5ndfnnMxDnRN874 NwB+KLPrmX3nbStoccEGdB9MA1gdRlciHWNDRs+6uplXxfxfbS4wuq345SehhU5oAFvmwqtac 0jyzaroIgQREeYmT52/8RTOkO9XGpF7BetrXH5jnAqW+Jv+pGf0T9Sh8INX6Cks7egm23lgYd fl17bpZEkASVT4+fDc1L53SenVt9Ed/49cwswZzdm140r7qrODRjh5T0ex2H9TLeF3muFbdv0 /ou8L/80AYGN7Vmj1IJ/NH3izcGWNdlwbsjI6Tc5X29Jimwd7o6rvcey8jf+60pSgrDSiM+dn kkkNgOrEcy4y9Nd6zTHG5De+0iSLfQENTjdWa6itAZ+SerBOoY5yXPoDxuE1MUME7H/BeeoKh VLPtblsu6kugi820vlzQyexx84Jm8PvEBY9WRECBPabJMlFc7C8JbtAfZi2SIwce3wgsOBREn IsMQ8dVDSqOkjeIn7ZbmdUG/AjMJwzOqgUbP9TpUkFQ/X62Ivf3zu1Tvfu6mCyhpRR3HAANkV E4THJppG25HpVRIg+ob36vmwwEUHbra5+1o3f8EDw4Xobsb872hcEZ6cdikk4PLJFqAj8W3Kb nJhDOrww78QC3igFit2Q== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29805 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) > This bug is not about whether or when there should or > should not be resizing. It is about the doc, which > can (so far) give the impression that this resizing > affects this real estate even when a standalone frame > is involved - which it does not, AFAIK. Any such resizing is governed by the setting of `resize-mini-windows' and whether the echo area can be resized at all. There are various reasons why the echo area can't be resized - for example, when the root window has fixed size, when the echo area occupies the only window on its frame or when the frame is too small. Maybe there are more. So the standalone frame case is just one among others. But this is just my POV of this matter. As should be clear from my previous remarks in this thread, I apparently do not understand the use of the echo area for showing tooltips and neither the difference between echo area and minibuffer. So I'll rather leave this for the inventor of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' to fix. martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 23 13:48:12 2021 Received: (at 29805) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Oct 2021 17:48:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37124 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meL7r-0004v8-Vw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 13:48:12 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f172.google.com ([209.85.214.172]:35595) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meL7n-0004ut-3L for 29805@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 13:48:10 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f172.google.com with SMTP id n12so315392plc.2 for <29805@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 10:48:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=G+SddSxSBnx1WDWy9wGIftTDjGFYwEBYg8NLVk6VYaU=; b=H9gGqTrf5I/FOEPLHWvmVRkYDBcJN3R5j98e2K9JWkJl89nDE9WTYS59LsyB7fnXAP MCKvw+kbiGUOEvtHXR+cFCyf/1gR1NzySlNEIhofiXsaNtu+jMPeUaJnAZHy1h6b8x9L SgipsAUvXeLvZ5lljc3lQvsZgjrfDC+0FZ1eQsQGK+WeuQGmnBOFa4q9J7m1broMoRUb ktgK3qFUI0i8HgCiJA5QuKKxWHVVExOmWbjzIvWd3jBCTtPqjfojxoI9VmC8cswkvaMZ lIezF7CYEfgcdcxKTPGTBBxiOCCH/qlu8APuXwwm5YUP15HPlpPWkJqazwBVdAzds1j+ AIWw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532lx9YFuUR5EdNaE8NO7aaqGz1XEG/znwNqA2zrMUtWdPsQlo15 2Wv8BmipKBqZgSCtZqqiIv3ajV5VUdfZ+EyBwEs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxiIOqEdVix5J4H/03EPErKrSYZZse7skCN4X1m07M2I+NhT6H2SsYyqHExoYgi71IFF1GYTOsKvAdzLfUaxoI= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e750:b0:140:2693:b2e8 with SMTP id p16-20020a170902e75000b001402693b2e8mr6801572plf.22.1635011281286; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 10:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 10:48:00 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <5A3EA97E.9060501@gmx.at> (martin rudalics's message of "Sat, 23 Dec 2017 20:07:42 +0100") References: <5A3D4775.2010700@gmx.at> <7614565b-94d6-40fe-a3d1-cf51235a21bc@default> <5A3E14EC.3010809@gmx.at> <5A3EA97E.9060501@gmx.at> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 10:48:00 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#29805: 27.0; doc of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' To: martin rudalics Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29805 Cc: Drew Adams , 29805@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) martin rudalics writes: >> This bug is not about whether or when there should or >> should not be resizing. It is about the doc, which >> can (so far) give the impression that this resizing >> affects this real estate even when a standalone frame >> is involved - which it does not, AFAIK. > > Any such resizing is governed by the setting of `resize-mini-windows' > and whether the echo area can be resized at all. There are various > reasons why the echo area can't be resized - for example, when the > root window has fixed size, when the echo area occupies the only > window on its frame or when the frame is too small. Maybe there are > more. So the standalone frame case is just one among others. > > But this is just my POV of this matter. As should be clear from my > previous remarks in this thread, I apparently do not understand the > use of the echo area for showing tooltips and neither the difference > between echo area and minibuffer. So I'll rather leave this for the > inventor of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' to fix. Eli, I guess that unnamed inventor is you. Perhaps you could take a look at the above and see what you think. commit 9b3ce6252115980802adaa562af575bcd73a2c55 Author: Eli Zaretskii Date: Sat Oct 7 15:04:37 2017 +0300 New defcustom 'tooltip-resize-echo-area' * lisp/tooltip.el (tooltip-resize-echo-area): New defcustom. (tooltip-show-help-non-mode): Use it to avoid truncating the tooltip text in the echo area. (Bug#28724) * etc/NEWS: Mention 'tooltip-resize-echo-area'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 23 14:08:50 2021 Received: (at 29805) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Oct 2021 18:08:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37187 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meLRp-0005WT-Vx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 14:08:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57376) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meLRo-0005WC-I2 for 29805@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 14:08:49 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39690) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1meLRi-0003r7-FX; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 14:08:42 -0400 Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2573 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1meLRi-00056d-2C; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 14:08:42 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 21:08:29 +0300 Message-Id: <83y26j4ns2.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 23 Oct 2021 10:48:00 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#29805: 27.0; doc of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' References: <5A3D4775.2010700@gmx.at> <7614565b-94d6-40fe-a3d1-cf51235a21bc@default> <5A3E14EC.3010809@gmx.at> <5A3EA97E.9060501@gmx.at> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29805 Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, 29805@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 10:48:00 -0700 > Cc: 29805@debbugs.gnu.org > > > But this is just my POV of this matter. As should be clear from my > > previous remarks in this thread, I apparently do not understand the > > use of the echo area for showing tooltips and neither the difference > > between echo area and minibuffer. So I'll rather leave this for the > > inventor of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' to fix. > > Eli, I guess that unnamed inventor is you. Perhaps you could take a > look at the above and see what you think. > > commit 9b3ce6252115980802adaa562af575bcd73a2c55 > Author: Eli Zaretskii > Date: Sat Oct 7 15:04:37 2017 +0300 > > New defcustom 'tooltip-resize-echo-area' > > * lisp/tooltip.el (tooltip-resize-echo-area): New defcustom. > (tooltip-show-help-non-mode): Use it to avoid truncating the > tooltip text in the echo area. (Bug#28724) What is unclear about it? Drew thinks the doc string should say something about stand-alone minibuffer frames, but only Drew can explain why. The doc string talks specifically about the echo-area, and about the situation where tooltips are shown in the echo-area; it says nothing about minibuffers or minibuffer-only frames. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d42f795a-5767-4634-90da-08d996561fc4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Oct 2021 18:51:29.3188 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: JaPKu3sAdivdp3jMNrQ2gKn16chJU/miqhJ8kEMBgKjMLNAgU3cdkq4ivcoq/q4eXmJg9WKJIIvSiIz71IgztA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB2488 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10146 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=983 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2109230001 definitions=main-2110230120 X-Proofpoint-GUID: P4NR7CLLlRCF0Nvs5UEizmQA0vy_4lyL X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: P4NR7CLLlRCF0Nvs5UEizmQA0vy_4lyL X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29805 Cc: "29805@debbugs.gnu.org" <29805@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > What is unclear about it? Drew thinks the doc string should say > something about stand-alone minibuffer frames, but only Drew can > explain why. The doc string talks specifically about the echo-area, > and about the situation where tooltips are shown in the echo-area; it > says nothing about minibuffers or minibuffer-only frames. Yes, it's about the echo area - only; not minibuffers. As both I and Martin pointed out, resizing the echo area means resizing the minibuffer area - same real estate. The doc says that the echo area gets resized. That effect doesn't occur with a "minibuffer-only" frame. The doc would be clearer if it said so. Such a frame is as much "echo-area-only" as it is "minibuffer-only". A standalone "minibuffer" frame also manifests the echo area - it's a frame for the minibuffer AND the echo area. Doc that tells you the echo area gets resized to show all of the message text should also tell you that this doesn't apply - the ECHO AREA is not resized - if the echo area is the only thing in its frame (a so-called minibuffer-only, or standalone-minibuffer, frame). Saying that the doc shouldn't be fixed because it's about the echo area and not about the minibuffer is a deflection. No one is saying that it's about the minibuffer. It's a minor bug. But it should at least be obvious what the (doc) problem is. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 23 15:24:03 2021 Received: (at 29805) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Oct 2021 19:24:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37334 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meMcc-0003SL-TP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 15:24:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43050) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meMcc-0003Rt-2W for 29805@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 15:24:02 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41374) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1meMcW-0001ci-Ak; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 15:23:56 -0400 Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3228 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1meMcV-0000xI-UN; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 15:23:56 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 22:23:45 +0300 Message-Id: <83pmrv4kam.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 23 Oct 2021 18:51:29 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : bug#29805: 27.0; doc of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' References: <5A3D4775.2010700@gmx.at> <7614565b-94d6-40fe-a3d1-cf51235a21bc@default> <5A3E14EC.3010809@gmx.at> <5A3EA97E.9060501@gmx.at> <83y26j4ns2.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29805 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 29805@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "29805@debbugs.gnu.org" <29805@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 18:51:29 +0000 > > The doc says that the echo area gets resized. That > effect doesn't occur with a "minibuffer-only" frame. The effect only happens when the echo-area displays something that is longer than a single screen line. Is something being shown in the echo-area of your minibuffer-only frame? > Such a frame is as much "echo-area-only" as it is > "minibuffer-only". No, it isn't. The name "echo-area" is reserved to the mini-window, see Glossary. > A standalone "minibuffer" frame also manifests the echo area No, it doesn't. It serves as the minibuffer window, but it isn't the echo-area. > Doc that tells you the echo area gets resized to show > all of the message text should also tell you that this > doesn't apply - the ECHO AREA is not resized - if the > echo area is the only thing in its frame (a so-called > minibuffer-only, or standalone-minibuffer, frame). It makes no sense to talk about resizing the minibuffer-only frame, because it has more than one line to begin with. > It's a minor bug. It's not a bug at all. It should be closed. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9d2c9e70-534a-49b2-7eaa-08d9965e5c76 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Oct 2021 19:50:27.0384 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 1R9+XR0pXsV3Uwf5kYDf8THsfS3msLn3Hm/ljW+uVM2oxDjXyCOkd8YMSVqFpZOfyXlCjRlKHsKg4iqgd2AyMw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR10MB4209 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10146 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=764 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2109230001 definitions=main-2110230126 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: G4YrWoBBkm07nfPd2a4YMwvlPhYsGOvI X-Proofpoint-GUID: G4YrWoBBkm07nfPd2a4YMwvlPhYsGOvI X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29805 Cc: "stefan@marxist.se" , "29805@debbugs.gnu.org" <29805@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > A standalone "minibuffer" frame also manifests the > > echo area >=20 > No, it doesn't. It serves as the minibuffer window, > but it isn't the echo-area. (No one said it "is" the echo area. And no one but you has said that such a frame is, or "serves as", a window.) Where do you think the echo area is manifested, if you have a minibuffer-only frame and no other frame has a minibuffer? Bingo - that's what we're talking about. That's the (most common, and probably the only) use case of a standalone minibuffer frame - it provides THE mini-window. The echo area always uses the same real estate as a minibuffer. If the only minibuffer is standalone then - guess what - that's where the echo are is, in that standalone "minibuffer" frame. > > Doc that tells you the echo area gets resized to show > > all of the message text should also tell you that this > > doesn't apply - the ECHO AREA is not resized - if the > > echo area is the only thing in its frame (a so-called > > minibuffer-only, or standalone-minibuffer, frame). >=20 > It makes no sense to talk about resizing the minibuffer-only frame, > because it has more than one line to begin with. Nonsense. It has whatever number of lines it's configured to have. See `minibuffer-frame-alist'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 23 16:57:43 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Oct 2021 20:57:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37474 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meO5H-000836-6Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 16:57:43 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f46.google.com ([209.85.216.46]:35527) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meO5F-00082u-Ck for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 16:57:42 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f46.google.com with SMTP id n11-20020a17090a2bcb00b001a1e7a0a6a6so4611122pje.0 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 13:57:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=N6pkyEvGhf5ZRNdkAg1WYBcqs67YJ4z3PKUE/X9/udU=; b=HnzQHFSpc3aF2uL0ege+UXSJxFNBsAHhoxPnv720EmpZH/ozNitXG7aAHy9L68FK2K J7ozMv9LB5w01R4ucK8ddXcXmOMNRBqC+qzCg89LXIXoztEUCcpDh3ympAU0q5OCvLlI hVD+ParZT2fX2tZvJ5d3GIZxuaz2hbnuUHc1rpew0YeZLvOWJxLm7xurWdjjFxuRdgrc YRKmCoNBHQiEpbHi4s6kMUnGmnAL7JRxP8Xuli2QgboNFS7sAjfvjPTmCWYdzQ/GIF7J XXh+gsCUZGVRqCIZ3UuUljkZQgF3UTzx/W58sSMclqy/SBYBagTvafl+dUotlu+k6eRO sqAQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5331UGtwfjgUGNcFIxb5E+LTnP3/7u0nauTNceAPHUTIn//6eyDd Yz61diM5go9Kdxv51tPyQtm4EoMP6R2WdIN9n4o53tRvEGU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxJPhZZdzIg9/udODTWMD9uui/YJ0J3T9hKE+C576z9Gn9GgwgBKWyvSZUAaq/qaEKVM8LYM9wgy/IBxTZ8+5Q= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:17d2:: with SMTP id me18mr23897873pjb.132.1635022655484; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 13:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 13:57:35 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 13:57:35 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: control message for bug #29805 To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) tags 29805 + notabug quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 24 01:52:56 2021 Received: (at 29805-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Oct 2021 05:52:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37708 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meWRD-0000Sy-Rc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 01:52:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55028) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meWRA-0000Sl-Mx for 29805-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 01:52:54 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51980) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1meWR3-00038w-Lr; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 01:52:46 -0400 Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2067 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1meWR2-00072g-Vd; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 01:52:45 -0400 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 08:52:35 +0300 Message-Id: <83k0i33r6k.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 23 Oct 2021 19:50:27 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : bug#29805: 27.0; doc of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' References: <5A3D4775.2010700@gmx.at> <7614565b-94d6-40fe-a3d1-cf51235a21bc@default> <5A3E14EC.3010809@gmx.at> <5A3EA97E.9060501@gmx.at> <83y26j4ns2.fsf@gnu.org> <83pmrv4kam.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29805-done Cc: 29805-done@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "stefan@marxist.se" , > "29805@debbugs.gnu.org" > <29805@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 19:50:27 +0000 > > Where do you think the echo area is manifested, if > you have a minibuffer-only frame and no other frame > has a minibuffer? Nowhere. > > It makes no sense to talk about resizing the minibuffer-only frame, > > because it has more than one line to begin with. > > Nonsense. Thank you, this is my final clue that this discussion goes nowhere, as it happens so frequently with you. Bug closed. 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b=hGuHP4IL3z4IsLGNOLXI9KoIxkJ9Guc2m7dqdPkwnzKQZLVxYn7lBCiBZGBPtVHbJQMg4JtIVQLIIoW6/3If1j9MxSj8thL7VZXqI0fNvtrRcyEPPoRSUO+F7DG/23Vx4m+0/nEX7EqggMPxkreTcp14FOCk/QF0rb49jiMQ6MU= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by BY5PR10MB3778.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:1f5::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4628.18; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 20:45:14 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c0bc:7c3a:292f:8a82]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c0bc:7c3a:292f:8a82%8]) with mapi id 15.20.4628.020; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 20:45:14 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : bug#29805: 27.0; doc of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#29805: 27.0; doc of `tooltip-resize-echo-area' Thread-Index: AQHXyJtjexDi6IXZy0+a5ZvkHAd5k6vinNLg Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 20:45:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5A3D4775.2010700@gmx.at> <7614565b-94d6-40fe-a3d1-cf51235a21bc@default> <5A3E14EC.3010809@gmx.at> <5A3EA97E.9060501@gmx.at> <83y26j4ns2.fsf@gnu.org> <83pmrv4kam.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0i33r6k.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83k0i33r6k.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gnu.org; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5ffc88a8-e5c7-4fc9-2fb7-08d9972f2e27 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Oct 2021 20:45:14.1888 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Z02JcOBjeoMXA68ApyyN7ZkJSF+IgyPD0VldekEt/zFZVjgMKW1colrQd+DAQK+PuLdMuRAnK81nGITT4/7M/g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR10MB3778 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10147 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=765 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2109230001 definitions=main-2110240141 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: RTu7qZl367fzeKYzRvzwXsPJf5DHKX1U X-Proofpoint-GUID: RTu7qZl367fzeKYzRvzwXsPJf5DHKX1U X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29805-done Cc: "29805-done@debbugs.gnu.org" <29805-done@debbugs.gnu.org>, "stefan@marxist.se" X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > Where do you think the echo area is manifested, if > > you have a minibuffer-only frame and no other frame > > has a minibuffer? >=20 > Nowhere. So where do you think those message we see in that frame are? Do you think they're in the minibuffer? (They're not, as is easily checked.) > > > It makes no sense to talk about resizing the minibuffer-only, > > > frame because it has more than one line to begin with. > > > > Nonsense. It has whatever number of lines it's > > configured to have. See `minibuffer-frame-alist'. >=20 > Thank you, this is my final clue that this discussion > goes nowhere, as it happens so frequently with you. Do you disagree that the minibuffer frame can have any number of lines? Do you still claim that it must have more than one line? Do you still claim that there's no echo area in such a frame, so there's no echo area anywhere, if no other frame has a minibuffer? Have you even tried Emacs with only one frame that has a minibuffer - a minibuffer-only frame? > Bug closed. Feel better now? From unknown Sat Aug 09 04:55:02 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator