From unknown Fri Jun 20 19:51:42 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#29550 <29550@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#29550 <29550@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default Reply-To: bug#29550 <29550@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 02:51:42 +0000 retitle 29550 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default reassign 29550 emacs submitter 29550 G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp severity 29550 wishlist tag 29550 patch wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 03 18:20:13 2017 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2017 23:20:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43954 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLdYS-0006Kz-Su for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 18:20:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:52545) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLdYQ-0006Km-VE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 18:20:11 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLdYJ-0005v5-Mn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 18:20:05 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:56764) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLdYJ-0005uz-HW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 18:20:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43491) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLdYG-0005v1-Vw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 18:20:03 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLdYB-0005rx-Vm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 18:20:00 -0500 Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.194]:49160) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLdYB-0005re-KG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 18:19:55 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 46.2.227.80 Received: from alpha.alpha (unknown [46.2.227.80]) (Authenticated sender: self@gkayaalp.com) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 88DABC5A54 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 00:19:52 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F_Kayaalp?= To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 02:19:45 +0300 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I suggest that the command =E2=80=98not-modified=E2=80=99, bound by default= to =E2=80=98M-~=E2=80=99, be disabled by default, as it can cause data loss and is easily triggered accidentally, especially with the British keyboard layout where the key with the apostrophe and the @ sign is adjacent to the key with the number sign and tilde: Alt+Shift+ becomes M-@ (mark-word), Alt+Shift+ becomes M-~ (not-modified). When Emacs is quit without further modifying a buffer marked clean with this function, the changes are lost. Certainly this scenario is not very probable, but given that stuff like =E2=80=98upcase-region=E2=80=99 is disabled, I though= t this one can get disabled too. I was nearly bitten by this, and I'd count myself as a relatively experienced user :) Find attached a patch disabling this command. In GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.25) of 2017-12-03 built on alpha Repository revision: 9d7f0e27e0592132c1b5b9c280192333eaf288b8 Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11905000 System Description: Ubuntu 17.10 Recent messages: next-line: End of buffer Modification-flag cleared Saving file /home/g/co/Playground/django/Readme.org... Wrote /home/g/co/Playground/django/Readme.org Mark set Saving file /home/g/co/Playground/django/Readme.org... Wrote /home/g/co/Playground/django/Readme.org Type "q" in help window to restore its previous buffer. Mark set C-, is undefined [2 times] Configured using: 'configure --prefix=3D/home/g/local --with-x-toolkit=3Dyes --with-modules --with-file-notification=3Dyes --without-threads --with-gameuser=3Dno --with-mailutils' Configured features: XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND GPM DBUS GSETTINGS NOTIFY ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 MODULES LCMS2 Important settings: value of $LC_MESSAGES: en_GB.UTF-8 value of $LC_MONETARY: tr_TR.UTF-8 value of $LC_NUMERIC: tr_TR.UTF-8 value of $LC_TIME: tr_TR.UTF-8 value of $LANG: en_GB.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Org Minor modes in effect: diff-auto-refine-mode: t auto-image-file-mode: t show-paren-mode: t persistent-scratch-autosave-mode: t winner-mode: t global-whitespace-mode: t save-place-mode: t eval-sexp-fu-flash-mode: t url-handler-mode: t auto-insert-mode: t global-undo-tree-mode: t undo-tree-mode: t global-paren-face-mode: t global-gk-minor-mode: t gk-minor-mode: t gk-utf8-entry-mode: t shell-dirtrack-mode: t tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t eldoc-mode: t electric-quote-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t auto-fill-function: org-auto-fill-function global-visual-line-mode: t visual-line-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Load-path shadows: /home/g/co/emacs.d/gk/gk-unilat hides /home/g/co/elisp/gk-unilat /home/g/co/emacs.d/lisp/bsdpkg hides /home/g/co/elisp/bsdpkg /home/g/co/emacs.d/gk/gk-greek hides /home/g/co/elisp/gk-greek Features: (shadow sort vc-filewise mailalias mail-extr emacsbug misearch multi-isearch cl-print debug info python-django sql view hippie-exp log-view eieio-opt speedbar sb-image ezimage dframe help-fns radix-tree dabbrev cl-extra mhtml-mode css-mode color vc-git diff-mode vc-bzr vc-src vc-sccs vc-svn vc-dir ewoc python tramp-sh pcmpl-unix org-eldoc org-rmail org-mhe org-irc org-info org-gnus org-docview org-bibtex bibtex org-bbdb org-w3m dired-aux image-file paren vc-hg init server gk pass-listing password-store thinks boxquote gk-www gk-feeds gk-urls elfeed-show elfeed-search elfeed-csv elfeed elfeed-curl elfeed-log elfeed-db elfeed-lib xml-query gk-ui persistent-scratch pixel-scroll desktop frameset time ido winner mono-theme elec-pair whitespace saveplace goto-addr apropos gk-system man gk-multimedia gk-langenvs gk-turkish gk-ibuffer ibuffer-vc ibuf-ext ibuffer ibuffer-loaddefs gk-keys multiple-cursors mc-hide-unmatched-lines-mode mc-separate-operations rectangular-region-mode mc-mark-pop mc-mark-more mc-cycle-cursors mc-edit-lines multiple-cursors-core goto-last-change gk-things gk-programming perl-mode inf-ruby ruby-mode smie js sgml-mode cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs slime-quicklisp slime-xref-browser tree-widget slime-tramp slime-banner slime-asdf grep slime-mrepl inferior-slime slime-fancy slime-trace-dialog slime-fontifying-fu slime-package-fu slime-references slime-compiler-notes-tree slime-scratch slime-presentations bridge slime-mdot-fu slime-enclosing-context slime-fuzzy slime-fancy-trace slime-fancy-inspector slime-c-p-c slime-editing-commands slime-autodoc slime-repl slime-parse slime arc-mode archive-mode hyperspec scheme gk-outline eval-sexp-fu highlight inf-lisp highlight-parentheses paredit gk-org org-caldav icalendar diary-lib diary-loaddefs org-id url-dav url-http url-auth url-gw url-handlers org-capture autoinsert ob-shell gk-vc vc-rcs vc-cvs vc vc-dispatcher log-edit pcvs-util add-log ox-groff ox-beamer ox-odt rng-loc rng-uri rng-parse rng-match rng-dt rng-util rng-pttrn nxml-parse nxml-ns nxml-enc xmltok nxml-util ox-latex ox-icalendar ox-html table ox-ascii ox-publish ox org-eww org-protocol org-mobile org-agenda gk-org-cite gk-fonts gk-alist gk-mail rx spam spam-stat gnus-uu yenc gnus-msg gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime dig gnus-sum gnus-group gnus-undo gnus-start gnus-cloud nnimap nnmail tls gnutls utf7 nnoo gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range gnus-win mail-source smtpmail sendmail netrc message rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 gmm-utils mailheader gk-utils gk-files nsm rmc tramp-cache tramp tramp-compat tramp-loaddefs trampver parse-time etags xref project f s ucs-normalize epa-mail epa epg epg-config bbdb-vcard bbdb-com crm mailabbrev vcard bbdb bbdb-site timezone gk-lingua gk-evil evil evil-integration undo-tree diff evil-maps evil-commands flyspell evil-jumps evil-command-window evil-types evil-search evil-ex evil-macros evil-repeat evil-states evil-core evil-common windmove thingatpt evil-digraphs evil-vars ace-jump-mode gk-globals forecast derived subr-x json map solar cal-dst whole-line-or-region paren-face gk-minor-mode face-remap gk-file gk-mac gk-text zencoding-mode cl copyright ispell lorem-ipsum gk-utf8 gk-input-methods gk-unilat gk-syriac gk-greek gk-armenian quail help-mode gk-global-modes eww puny mm-url gnus nnheader gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mail-utils mm-util mail-prsvr url-queue url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie url-domsuf url-util url-parse auth-source password-cache url-vars mailcap shr svg xml seq dom browse-url diminish gk-edit rect gk-documents pdf-sync pdf-annot tablist tablist-filter semantic/wisent/comp semantic/wisent semantic/wisent/wisent semantic/util-modes semantic/util semantic semantic/tag semantic/lex semantic/fw eieio byte-opt bytecomp byte-compile cconv eieio-core eieio-loaddefs mode-local cedet org-element avl-tree generator org org-macro org-footnote org-pcomplete org-list org-faces org-entities org-version ob-emacs-lisp ob ob-tangle org-src ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-keys ob-exp ob-comint ob-core ob-eval org-compat org-macs org-loaddefs find-func cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs pdf-outline pdf-links noutline outline easy-mmode pdf-isearch let-alist pdf-misc imenu pdf-tools compile cus-edit cus-start cus-load wid-edit pdf-view bookmark pp pdf-cache pdf-info tq pdf-util advice doc-view jka-compr gk-dired dired-subtree dired-hacks-utils dash ls-lisp wdired image-dired image-mode format-spec dired-x easymenu dired dired-loaddefs gk-crypt gk-comint cl-macs shell pcomplete edmacro kmacro comint ansi-color ring gk-backups cl-seq cl-loaddefs cl-lib gv time-date mule-util tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core term/tty-colors frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 670113 103572) (symbols 48 64645 1) (miscs 40 3205 3055) (strings 32 179959 15217) (string-bytes 1 5761193) (vectors 16 102310) (vector-slots 8 2221053 113258) (floats 8 987 1963) (intervals 56 9406 112) (buffers 992 67)) --=20 =C4=B0. G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-lisp-files.el-not-modified-Disable-this-function.patch >From 8044f65e774d3a1640f1f2f67e044ffa75991206 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: =?UTF-8?q?=C4=B0=2E=20G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F=20Kayaalp?= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 02:13:25 +0300 Subject: [PATCH] * lisp/files.el (not-modified) Disable this function. --- lisp/files.el | 2 ++ 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+) diff --git a/lisp/files.el b/lisp/files.el index 205001e5d5..0160ab9939 100644 --- a/lisp/files.el +++ b/lisp/files.el @@ -5301,6 +5301,8 @@ not-modified "Modification-flag cleared")) (set-buffer-modified-p arg)) +(put 'not-modified 'disabled t) + (defun toggle-read-only (&optional arg interactive) "Change whether this buffer is read-only." (declare (obsolete read-only-mode "24.3")) -- 2.14.1 --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 03 22:37:44 2017 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2017 03:37:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44142 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLhZg-0007oH-Dt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 22:37:44 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54039) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLhZe-0007o5-Gz for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 22:37:42 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLhZW-0005r9-Bw for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 22:37:37 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47171) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLhZW-0005r5-7y; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 22:37:34 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3972 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eLhZV-0000d4-Mf; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 22:37:34 -0500 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 05:37:21 +0200 Message-Id: <83fu8ryxhq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp In-reply-to: (message from =?utf-8?B?R8O2?= =?utf-8?B?a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 02:19:45 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default References: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: 29550@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Göktuğ Kayaalp > Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 02:19:45 +0300 > > I suggest that the command ‘not-modified’, bound by default to ‘M-~’, be > disabled by default, as it can cause data loss and is easily triggered > accidentally FWIW, I use this command many times every day, with no data loss. Just one data point. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 04 12:58:39 2017 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2017 17:58:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45800 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLv0p-0000b4-Km for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:58:39 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35385) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLv0o-0000aq-KY for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:58:38 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLv0i-0006og-VB for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:58:33 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:59317) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLv0f-0006nR-V2; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:58:29 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eLv0e-0004PJ-NR; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:58:28 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default References: <83fu8ryxhq.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: Federal Aviation Administration DES Chemical burn X-Ran: >eNph55"ET+ll\4+ySII>J6|~ZZhk.Ae#~k7uIv_6kDJPucBt^KXVl)o@CoT+z#?pE;ELT X-Hue: cyan X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:58:28 -0500 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp , 29550@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Previous times this came up: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2005-04/msg00182.html (a prolific and, err, idiosyncratic reporter) http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00414.html (previous maintainer) http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00395.html (previous+N maintainer) Obviously, this calls for a poll! (Please don't have a poll.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 05 04:49:15 2017 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Dec 2017 09:49:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46397 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eM9ql-0000js-88 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 04:49:15 -0500 Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.196]:48691) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eM9qj-0000jk-94 for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 04:49:13 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 46.2.227.80 Received: from alpha.alpha (unknown [46.2.227.80]) (Authenticated sender: self@gkayaalp.com) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0B3211720AF; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:49:09 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F_Kayaalp?= To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default References: <83fu8ryxhq.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 12:49:08 +0300 In-Reply-To: <83fu8ryxhq.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 04 Dec 2017 05:37:21 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: 29550@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 2017-12-04 05:37 +02, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp >> Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 02:19:45 +0300 >>=20 >> I suggest that the command =E2=80=98not-modified=E2=80=99, bound by defa= ult to =E2=80=98M-~=E2=80=99, be >> disabled by default, as it can cause data loss and is easily triggered >> accidentally > > FWIW, I use this command many times every day, with no data loss. > Just one data point. > There probably are some disabled commands that each of us use all the time. =E2=80=98erase-buffer=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98upcase-region=E2=80=99 and = =E2=80=98downcase-region=E2=80=99 are some for me. I think =E2=80=98not-modified=E2=80=99 is at least as risky as tho= se commands given it can be hit accidentally, maybe more easily, as I've said previously, for someone using a keyboard where tilde is easily (mis-)typed (in my British layout keyboard it's just to the left of the big return button: jkl;'=C2=A0then #/~), and indeed would be =C2=ABconfusin= g for beginners=C2=BB, quoting the disabled command buffer. Also, from Glenn Morris' message in this thread, there seems to be two other times in history where a similar request to mine has been made. If my patch is refused I'll just have it disabled in my config, but I truly think that this command, bound to a non-prefixed binding in the global map, is potentially confusing and dangerous for who doesn't already know it, beginner or not; if we have upcase/downcase-region disabled, this should be disabled too. --=20 =C4=B0. G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 05 05:06:23 2017 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Dec 2017 10:06:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46417 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eMA7L-000188-17 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 05:06:23 -0500 Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.194]:54282) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eMA7J-000180-ME for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 05:06:22 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 46.2.227.80 Received: from alpha.alpha (unknown [46.2.227.80]) (Authenticated sender: self@gkayaalp.com) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1686AC5A7B; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 11:06:18 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F_Kayaalp?= To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default References: <83fu8ryxhq.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 13:06:18 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:58:28 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: 29550@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 2017-12-04 12:58 -05, Glenn Morris wrote: > Previous times this came up: > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2005-04/msg00182.html > (a prolific and, err, idiosyncratic reporter) > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00414.html > (previous maintainer) Here we have a *maintainer* that has lost some data accidentally hitting this key. > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00395.html > (previous+N maintainer) > > Obviously, this calls for a poll! > > (Please don't have a poll.) Why not? It might be the case that this command has now became less popular (for example it's not mentioned in the C-h t tutorial). Given how easy it's to re-enable it for its users, I see no reason for not disabling it by default for protecting the uninitiated. Quoting "(emacs) Disabling": ,---- | Disabling a command means that invoking it interactively asks for | confirmation from the user. The purpose of disabling a command is to | prevent users from executing it by accident; we do this for commands | that might be confusing to the uninitiated. `---- (on a side note, shouldn't =E2=80=98en/disable-command=E2=80=99 use =E2=80= =98custom-file=E2=80=99 or =E2=80=98user-init-file=E2=80=99 instead of trying to locate .emacs itself?) --=20 =C4=B0. G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 15 15:06:38 2018 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Apr 2018 19:06:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54502 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f7mz0-0004CS-1t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2018 15:06:38 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:38466) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f7myx-0004CJ-IN for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2018 15:06:35 -0400 Received: from 46.67.12.60.tmi.telenormobil.no ([46.67.12.60] helo=corrigan) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f7myr-0000tG-C5; Sun, 15 Apr 2018 21:06:31 +0200 Received: from larsi by corrigan with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f7myl-0004q6-2I; Sun, 15 Apr 2018 21:06:23 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default References: <83fu8ryxhq.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 21:06:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:58:28 -0500") Message-ID: <87tvsc70i9.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp , 29550@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Glenn Morris writes: > Previous times this came up: > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2005-04/msg00182.html > (a prolific and, err, idiosyncratic reporter) > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00414.html > (previous maintainer) > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00395.html > (previous+N maintainer) > > Obviously, this calls for a poll! > > (Please don't have a poll.) :-) I think it makes sense to have this command disabled by default. It's a lot more dangerous than several of the other commands that are disabled... -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 28 20:07:16 2019 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2019 00:07:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51582 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEMk7-0008Ns-NC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 20:07:15 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f193.google.com ([209.85.215.193]:44686) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEMk4-0008NT-St for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 20:07:13 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f193.google.com with SMTP id i14so5311135pgt.11 for <29550@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 17:07:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6IIWaGaSN9DfaRyLZH/3nR0KoLdYTfsVhuA0xPjGvro=; b=mlDdl9wyiaVWNbBBSDujhB7HOMlIad1bkLHYsUI5vcdA9yCUFJQuRp7COQlq5F6cYh VE5WLym7/1GQZk1DbXYmXCJ+m9hr3n0SKKWRd0tGw/NBf32f2CkhCisWErSo9A1jzHRS MU49AL0yG9JRhLMb5pbVKa/r6Qc4T0M7UxTUiSUlelGKk40c6WXpwyHssU5YSiZbGiVg o7iU9Zb/8qZ7SErcM8Kp9oVcI4AAssbbT8+IljYOzcecL22SauKawu6dFPZ3dVJFnUNN O75RCkYDPm4NhHiDCnphPiCqq7W0tqJaLRpke9iiGMkjtQcpHOVMWerghXiBK7J3MXTa M0KA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVBIl0LMCUn/UXT1iS6YBjtTRknfxJpSxsgIpi1NpBgdRvyT47x +up9fG+4aCvFsMvOf/XgqsGPbdpcpzhx0afulo4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw9HLH4J4Ri7y77k63Thev/9V7VhOx0MGMras/TdcURtWaJPgH7Z0rbt8ANy4Sv2Cx9sheqw7Yns5P9SBaErBA= X-Received: by 2002:a63:1310:: with SMTP id i16mr15830392pgl.200.1569715627062; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 17:07:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 02:06:55 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0000000000005998100593a5e6ad" X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: =?UTF-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8gS2F5YWFscA==?= , Glenn Morris , Eli Zaretskii , 29550@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) --0000000000005998100593a5e6ad Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" tags 29550 + patch quit Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Glenn Morris writes: > >> Previous times this came up: >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2005-04/msg00182.html >> (a prolific and, err, idiosyncratic reporter) >> >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00414.html >> (previous maintainer) >> >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00395.html >> (previous+N maintainer) >> >> Obviously, this calls for a poll! >> >> (Please don't have a poll.) > > :-) > > I think it makes sense to have this command disabled by default. It's a > lot more dangerous than several of the other commands that are > disabled... I agree with Lars here, and Stefan Monnier in the above thread, that it should be disabled. I don't really understand the basic controversy here. It should at worst be a minor inconvenience for anyone who do wish to use it, while it could save many other users some big headaches. So I'll just jump in at the deep end and ask... Are there any objections to the attached patch? Best regards, Stefan Kangas --0000000000005998100593a5e6ad Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Disable-not-modified-command-by-default.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Disable-not-modified-command-by-default.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: f_k14831wf0 RnJvbSBkNjc2ZmJiNTQzYzA0YTdmMjU4ZjU2NDIxNDgxMmE2MjdlNjA5MDAwIE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5rYW5nYXNAZ21haWwuY29t PgpEYXRlOiBTdW4sIDI5IFNlcCAyMDE5IDAyOjAyOjA2ICswMjAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0g RGlzYWJsZSBub3QtbW9kaWZpZWQgY29tbWFuZCBieSBkZWZhdWx0CgoqIGxpc3AvZmlsZXMuZWwg KG5vdC1tb2RpZmllZCk6IERpc2FibGUgY29tbWFuZCBieQpkZWZhdWx0LiAgKEJ1ZyMyOTU1MCkK LS0tCiBsaXNwL2ZpbGVzLmVsIHwgMyArKysKIDEgZmlsZSBjaGFuZ2VkLCAzIGluc2VydGlvbnMo KykKCmRpZmYgLS1naXQgYS9saXNwL2ZpbGVzLmVsIGIvbGlzcC9maWxlcy5lbAppbmRleCAwOTE4 MGZkNTU1Li5mM2JiMjM3MzhkIDEwMDY0NAotLS0gYS9saXNwL2ZpbGVzLmVsCisrKyBiL2xpc3Av ZmlsZXMuZWwKQEAgLTU1MzcsNiArNTUzNyw5IEBAIGNsZWFyLXZpc2l0ZWQtZmlsZS1tb2R0aW1l CiBOZXh0IGF0dGVtcHQgdG8gc2F2ZSB3aWxsIG5vdCBjb21wbGFpbiBvZiBhIGRpc2NyZXBhbmN5 LiIKICAgKHNldC12aXNpdGVkLWZpbGUtbW9kdGltZSAwKSkKIAorOzsgVGhpcyBjb21tYW5kIGNv dWxkIGNhdXNlIGRhdGEgbG9zcyBmb3IgdW5zdXNwZWN0aW5nIHVzZXJzLgorKHB1dCAnbm90LW1v ZGlmaWVkICdkaXNhYmxlZCB0KQorCiAoZGVmdW4gbm90LW1vZGlmaWVkICgmb3B0aW9uYWwgYXJn KQogICAiTWFyayBjdXJyZW50IGJ1ZmZlciBhcyB1bm1vZGlmaWVkLCBub3QgbmVlZGluZyB0byBi ZSBzYXZlZC4KIFdpdGggcHJlZml4IEFSRywgbWFyayBidWZmZXIgYXMgbW9kaWZpZWQsIHNvIFxc W3NhdmUtYnVmZmVyXSB3aWxsIHNhdmUuCi0tIAoyLjIwLjEKCg== --0000000000005998100593a5e6ad-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 29 03:21:15 2019 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2019 07:21:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52093 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iETW6-00021F-RT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 03:21:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45043) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iETW3-000211-Uy for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 03:21:12 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45132) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iETVx-000561-RJ; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 03:21:05 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2364 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iETVw-000542-CO; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 03:21:04 -0400 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:20:58 +0300 Message-Id: <83y2y7fu05.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sun, 29 Sep 2019 02:06:55 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default References: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: self@gkayaalp.com, rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, 29550@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 02:06:55 +0200 > Cc: Glenn Morris , Göktuğ Kayaalp , > 29550@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii > > >> Previous times this came up: > >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2005-04/msg00182.html > >> (a prolific and, err, idiosyncratic reporter) > >> > >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00414.html > >> (previous maintainer) > >> > >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00395.html > >> (previous+N maintainer) > >> > >> Obviously, this calls for a poll! > >> > >> (Please don't have a poll.) > > > > :-) > > > > I think it makes sense to have this command disabled by default. It's a > > lot more dangerous than several of the other commands that are > > disabled... > > I agree with Lars here, and Stefan Monnier in the above thread, that > it should be disabled. > > I don't really understand the basic controversy here. It should at > worst be a minor inconvenience for anyone who do wish to use it, while > it could save many other users some big headaches. The basic controversy here, from my POV, is that I use "emacs -Q" a lot when working on bug reports, and having this command disabled by default will be a nuisance because I use it VERY often. > So I'll just jump in at the deep end and ask... Are there any > objections to the attached patch? The previous discussions provide objections, don't they? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 29 03:35:52 2019 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2019 07:35:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52115 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iETkG-0004Qi-Kg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 03:35:52 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f182.google.com ([209.85.210.182]:40225) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iETkD-0004QV-Sp for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 03:35:50 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f182.google.com with SMTP id x127so3764208pfb.7 for <29550@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 00:35:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ec4h9Xw72AfYyEv0HlLfk8W0NtktTrpdD6IwQVIYozo=; b=KrIVw/VSlBMcEDI89BZ8/RWvWCvVibAWkX0xtMV3deP6y6wWqDmqXNVfHEb/9t7XCn bXR9MrsSGOXMg8nqnTNYh2mdENySOZPRooWDF9fA51zVrY68qPw9rsa7W1FPv1buTru2 XECJ3nzLamDPDg88k6Qyruwz+DnWv0jdcxlPJJXsD2cdmPeZql9FZeLG80r/Cwz3gp/l /l/gbeiolObTlZBTrys189ePHK4QMvtKM5Ys4NcYci9Q4Lh1RBk9dmCrOT4On9FeQUhQ mwtOxhCx1jq/LSTxlHuUUbR4iA0WBlqE+RoZHPvJvtfC7SyRKsAUKnuVb86ttylmhX3j dNNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUGWG7CuqayiBv20ihh4Yr/27EqAutTJq7RRSK2qmDggB67FEbb /U8CEUEdE4QMrqVkXyl9Ov6Sdcmli2UxmY3kWxI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyeekPFzYeAmwvMqCaoSBN+SfUrJLwTt7BgBPJhkDe0YQXLdMZixh6GJz70ySbg26w3qubGxQj3kDOVwBotWnA= X-Received: by 2002:a63:720f:: with SMTP id n15mr17559843pgc.198.1569742543843; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 00:35:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <83y2y7fu05.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83y2y7fu05.fsf@gnu.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 09:35:32 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: =?UTF-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8gS2F5YWFscA==?= , Glenn Morris , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 29550@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > The basic controversy here, from my POV, is that I use "emacs -Q" a > lot when working on bug reports, and having this command disabled by > default will be a nuisance because I use it VERY often. OK, that makes sense. If that's a common use case, disabling it by default might be more trouble than it's worth. I suggest to close this bug report as wontfix to make the decision against this proposal clear. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 29 04:00:04 2019 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2019 08:00:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52148 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEU7f-00052W-Pf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 04:00:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47554) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEU7e-000515-5a for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 04:00:02 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45342) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iEU7Y-0000Zj-LR; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 03:59:56 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4731 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iEU7X-00076w-6N; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 03:59:55 -0400 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:59:50 +0300 Message-Id: <83r23zfs7d.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sun, 29 Sep 2019 09:35:32 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default References: <83y2y7fu05.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: self@gkayaalp.com, rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, 29550@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 09:35:32 +0200 > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Glenn Morris , Göktuğ Kayaalp , > 29550@debbugs.gnu.org > > I suggest to close this bug report as wontfix to make the decision > against this proposal clear. Fine with me, thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 29 04:01:55 2019 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2019 08:01:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52152 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEU9S-0006l6-K2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 04:01:54 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:48074) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEU9Q-0006jI-OT for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 04:01:53 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iEU9N-00068p-26; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:01:51 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default References: <83y2y7fu05.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:01:48 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83y2y7fu05.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:20:58 +0300") Message-ID: <87pnjjsf83.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > The basic controversy here, from my POV, is that I use "emacs -Q" a > lot when working on bug reports, and having this command disabled by > default will be a nuisance because I use it VERY often. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: self@gkayaalp.com, rgm@gnu.org, Stefan Kangas , 29550@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > The basic controversy here, from my POV, is that I use "emacs -Q" a > lot when working on bug reports, and having this command disabled by > default will be a nuisance because I use it VERY often. Taking us poor people who work on Emacs into consideration is nice, but shouldn't we prioritise how this works for the users? I mean, the same argumentation could be used for a number of disabled commands, like `narrow-to-region' which I use a lot and always have to re-enable when I'm working in -Q. And `not-modified' is much more dangerous for users than `narrow-to-region', especially since it's bound to a key people may hit by accident (`M-~'), while `narrow-to-region' is much more difficult to do so with. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 29 04:28:25 2019 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2019 08:28:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52194 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEUZ7-0007m9-A4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 04:28:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49637) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEUZ4-0007ls-Mg for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 04:28:23 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45767) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iEUYz-0003wC-8P; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 04:28:17 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2700 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iEUYs-0004Hj-J7; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 04:28:11 -0400 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 11:28:04 +0300 Message-Id: <83pnjjfqwb.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-reply-to: <87pnjjsf83.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:01:48 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default References: <83y2y7fu05.fsf@gnu.org> <87pnjjsf83.fsf@gnus.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: self@gkayaalp.com, rgm@gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, 29550@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: Stefan Kangas , rgm@gnu.org, self@gkayaalp.com, > 29550@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:01:48 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > The basic controversy here, from my POV, is that I use "emacs -Q" a > > lot when working on bug reports, and having this command disabled by > > default will be a nuisance because I use it VERY often. > > Taking us poor people who work on Emacs into consideration is nice, but > shouldn't we prioritise how this works for the users? I just explained what's the controversy, that's all. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 29 04:59:01 2019 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2019 08:59:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52229 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEV2j-0004DB-0N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 04:59:01 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:39728) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEV2g-0004D3-To for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 04:58:59 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46gzwd3JzKz1rK4B; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:58:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46gzwd2pvnz1qqkH; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:58:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MAL2gQzvIQq1; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:58:56 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: R1ibkKcroNAAqxaiHd78ZeODLFkWw0SaKUSABDYHhZDT4ZGLroK1VoJbtUiZmQtL Received: from linux.local (ppp-46-244-165-209.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.165.209]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:58:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: by linux.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8CAC01E538D; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:58:50 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default References: <83y2y7fu05.fsf@gnu.org> <87pnjjsf83.fsf@gnus.org> X-Yow: Why are these athletic shoe salesmen following me?? Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:58:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87pnjjsf83.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:01:48 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: self@gkayaalp.com, 29550@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) On Sep 29 2019, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >> The basic controversy here, from my POV, is that I use "emacs -Q" a >> lot when working on bug reports, and having this command disabled by >> default will be a nuisance because I use it VERY often. > > Taking us poor people who work on Emacs into consideration is nice, but > shouldn't we prioritise how this works for the users? How about adding a command that reenables all disabled commands? Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 29 06:05:26 2019 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2019 10:05:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52266 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEW50-0005sF-1t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 06:05:26 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:50624) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iEW4z-0005s8-98 for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 06:05:25 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iEW4v-0007Oc-Fb; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 12:05:23 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Andreas Schwab Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default References: <83y2y7fu05.fsf@gnu.org> <87pnjjsf83.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 12:05:21 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Andreas Schwab's message of "Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:58:49 +0200") Message-ID: <87pnjjpgda.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Andreas Schwab writes: > How about adding a command that reenables all disabled commands? That's possible, but I was also wondering whether there should be an "emacs -Q-but-not-so-much" (or whatever) switch to Emacs, or a standard common-maintainer-things.el file one could load. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: self@gkayaalp.com, 29550@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Andreas Schwab writes: > How about adding a command that reenables all disabled commands? That's possible, but I was also wondering whether there should be an "emacs -Q-but-not-so-much" (or whatever) switch to Emacs, or a standard common-maintainer-things.el file one could load. But that's probably an endless rabbit hole to go down into, so I think we should just settle on saying "-l my-maintainer-things.el" individually for whatever we think is too annoying to deal with when testing with -Q. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 04 14:38:46 2019 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Oct 2019 18:38:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43460 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iGSTW-0007NU-1R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Oct 2019 14:38:46 -0400 Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]:42085) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iGSTS-0007NJ-Kn for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Oct 2019 14:38:43 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 46.154.39.248 Received: from localhost (unknown [46.154.39.248]) (Authenticated sender: self@gkayaalp.com) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CE8BB60002; Fri, 4 Oct 2019 18:38:39 +0000 (UTC) From: =?utf-8?Q?G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F_Kayaalp?= To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default In-Reply-To: <87pnjjpgda.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sun, 29 Sep 2019 12:05:21 +0200) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2019 21:38:32 +0300 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: 29550@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, eliz@gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2019-09-29 12:05 +02, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Andreas Schwab writes: >> How about adding a command that reenables all disabled commands? > That's possible, but I was also wondering whether there should be an > "emacs -Q-but-not-so-much" (or whatever) switch to Emacs, or a standard > common-maintainer-things.el file one could load. > > But that's probably an endless rabbit hole to go down into, so I think > we should just settle on saying "-l my-maintainer-things.el" > individually for whatever we think is too annoying to deal with when > testing with -Q. Or, a flag like --maintainer-mode that enables all commands _and_ implies -Q and "-l $EMACS_MAINTAINER_RC" if found? Frankly, I see no reason this issue is controversial: the command has caused data loss for multiple people; accidental data loss and data corruption is the worst thing that can happen to you in personal computing, and accidentally hitting M-~ causes accidental data loss/corruption in a very confusing way. "(emacs) Disabling" states: > The purpose of disabling a command is to prevent users from executing > it by accident; we do this for commands that might be confusing to the > uninitiated. In this light, it=E2=80=99s rather obvious what to do: protect users by disabling this command. The sole argument for keeping it enabled is essentially the convenience of a single person. Also, something like this emacs -Q -e "(enable-command 'not-modified)" works for Eli=E2=80=99s case, you could just alias it to something like =E2= =80=98emacsq=E2=80=99 or =E2=80=98emacs-Q=E2=80=99. --=20 =C4=B0. G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 04 15:40:36 2019 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Oct 2019 19:40:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43494 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iGTRM-0000TX-Ir for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Oct 2019 15:40:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39892) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iGTRJ-0000TJ-5h for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Oct 2019 15:40:35 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52670) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iGTRD-0004N8-38; Fri, 04 Oct 2019 15:40:27 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4284 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iGTRC-0000PI-8p; Fri, 04 Oct 2019 15:40:26 -0400 Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2019 22:40:13 +0300 Message-Id: <83d0fc5mg2.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp In-reply-to: (message from =?utf-8?B?R8O2?= =?utf-8?B?a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp on Fri, 04 Oct 2019 21:38:32 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default References: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: 29550@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, larsi@gnus.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Göktuğ Kayaalp > Cc: schwab@linux-m68k.org, eliz@gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, > 29550@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2019 21:38:32 +0300 > > Also, something like this > > emacs -Q -e "(enable-command 'not-modified)" > > works for Eli’s case, you could just alias it to something like ‘emacsq’ > or ‘emacs-Q’. It's too late for me to re-train my muscle memory. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 10 10:03:02 2020 Received: (at 29550) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Aug 2020 14:03:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37013 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k58OE-00018l-Dl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:03:02 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:48524) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k58OC-00018E-KS for 29550@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:03:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=GMA0K3gBYlUoGCX27nqDegOug/wKeB8idUSKgo16CI8=; b=H/WtTydi8MxUUSGST05BQmMkbY aim3ZmCsXJv5v6nUw3CPomv8df7ODl7tFaWqhN0QEB9EHDxhtbymtaL7vPpj5eAiPYTwdTZP3fRyl 4x+MPaqXivLJ1b4cRhWCD7Veg+yDdnZbcCu2ZPM5SDCYnCA3reAzOjLhfZVLv9++q4d8=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k58Nz-0005aJ-JU; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:02:52 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default References: <83d0fc5mg2.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:02:46 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83d0fc5mg2.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 04 Oct 2019 22:40:13 +0300") Message-ID: <87blji38ft.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Also, something like this >> >> emacs -Q -e "(enable-command 'not-modified)" >> >> works for Eli’s case, you could just alias it to something like ‘emacsq’ >> or ‘emacs-Q’. > > It's too l [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29550 Cc: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp , 29550@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org, stefan@marxist.se X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Also, something like this >>=20 >> emacs -Q -e "(enable-command 'not-modified)" >>=20 >> works for Eli=E2=80=99s case, you could just alias it to something like = =E2=80=98emacsq=E2=80=99 >> or =E2=80=98emacs-Q=E2=80=99. > > It's too late for me to re-train my muscle memory. It seems that we're not going to convince Eli of the real dangers of the `M-~' command for Emacs users, so I'm closing this bug report. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 10 10:03:08 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Aug 2020 14:03:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37016 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k58OJ-000193-MK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:03:08 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:48536) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k58OH-00018M-9s for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:03:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=HZV5HZMCVBd05qaEId/RYkOeuSX8DN6zXPLCb6gGjdo=; b=b5H7gzG2EjTlcmhqrJmjHzk434 1atjp7HKbsDvjF7a8BjBDtAi2L1HVd54cp9hh/XeBc/Vg4smLHpeZsPQzNP2zQWj3k1WAloXhWwrV J49SQrj9XK9IXdJmOmUeF2bB0FZcwC743VRyNrA8ZyBVfCtZ5g106tPP9s1z75Rub3Tw=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k58O9-0005aT-HH for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:02:59 +0200 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:02:56 +0200 Message-Id: <87a6z238fj.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #29550 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 29550 wontfix close 29550 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 29550 wontfix close 29550 quit From unknown Fri Jun 20 19:51:42 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. 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