From unknown Sat Jun 21 17:31:43 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#29525 <29525@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#29525 <29525@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: Please don't default to "--unique" mode for Okular Reply-To: bug#29525 <29525@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 00:31:43 +0000 retitle 29525 Please don't default to "--unique" mode for Okular reassign 29525 auctex submitter 29525 Reuben Thomas severity 29525 normal tag 29525 wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 01 11:40:08 2017 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Dec 2017 16:40:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40299 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eKoMB-000351-R2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:40:08 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39010) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eKoM9-000344-KK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:40:06 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eKoM3-0005qB-8R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:40:00 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,DATE_IN_PAST_12_24, HTML_MESSAGE,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:43446) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eKoM3-0005q3-5K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:39:59 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58173) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eKoM1-0007Mt-S6 for bug-auctex@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:39:58 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eKoM0-0005nI-Ll for bug-auctex@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:39:57 -0500 Received: from mail-oi0-x244.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c06::244]:34419) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eKoM0-0005mc-Fn for bug-auctex@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:39:56 -0500 Received: by mail-oi0-x244.google.com with SMTP id u193so7555175oie.1 for ; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:39:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sc3d.org; s=google; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=nBLxVu1b4X4CibYmNJGtkEwI4znYNZ6cN0ah4nqFGIc=; b=BXi6p5HGT4CI6vTRoZC3LDlMMh9aF7JXpvpIXLp6o5pgDlhJsg+LSEDMcxo2sQnXyy rNe05AiJMEVZgn+NMk3jWBZE9Fs0BnuUPl75uT/JQRGMs3KgFV7UdSHcEqE4jhzXWFNO lmSb5T4wrqCFnHR2178nuaWlmWnkTzWM+ezyk= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=nBLxVu1b4X4CibYmNJGtkEwI4znYNZ6cN0ah4nqFGIc=; b=kRubtdJSj9zor+zg4PAx7dtG0Dmz13jUXIMZ4H+Gs4F1rkT1d7cRPXk07OkKpJ/qjH UN8i5PsNwSdFblV49BK0SA4aEIhC92iNOBJvo9drCQcdG0DpD7sTtGHYXjLhbiQ1YQVn mWehfV2CL3VX5Tb3+3+jEY4Wd0Xg6J6BhB3bk+W8vOrgX+8anxBKMVBW0JJyspcGnpZS LrwKcOY1oEAN8XymAy98PN8o5ot7oLx16jPEVG/hwpBtATk2MCzu5/oT++z0z0zkM5rK a/uh+wG6KE2yE+G+rcl3GRgEgU5+JJQeeKs7fNObcu0jOAsd/SWJ1FiBdVDipcEck5fU uyTg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6n9qnTVuUek0GB+IupJ4isbuXVafXA0kmdCOGNQS5y2uuzEl94 1i8rnB4M6/f9/0L5FHsC3mKj3meFnydnaPDRRpzrwg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZyJXK2BOdb1sKe3XD3v6JmiASCbGJqs1mTsCaOcmcms3wNe6iaysAae7buX/MMa0iKIQoM9oavJ7g+aF5EXuk= X-Received: by 10.202.221.8 with SMTP id u8mr6014280oig.121.1512079057125; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 13:57:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.38.225 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 13:57:36 -0800 (PST) From: Reuben Thomas Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:57:36 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Please don't default to "--unique" mode for Okular To: bug-auctex Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113d527c129fdb055f3a5713" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --001a113d527c129fdb055f3a5713 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'm a long-time user of AUCTeX (thanks, maintainers, for all your work on it!), and I just started using Okular as my previewer (having found that Evince 3.18 kept crashing whenever a PDF was updated, most frustrating; nothing to do with AUCTeX though!). I noticed that Emacs seemed only ever to start one instance of Okular, which makes it impossible to view multiple files side-by-side. I tracked this down to its use of --unique. While there may well be users who prefer this style, I suggest that it shouldn't be the default in AUCTeX, because it's not the default for other viewers. -- https://rrt.sc3d.org --001a113d527c129fdb055f3a5713 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm a long-time user of AUCTeX (thanks, = maintainers, for all your work on it!), and I just started using Okular as = my previewer (having found that Evince 3.18 kept crashing whenever a PDF wa= s updated, most frustrating; nothing to do with AUCTeX though!).

I noticed that Emacs seemed only ever to s= tart one instance of Okular, which makes it impossible to view multiple fil= es side-by-side. I tracked this down to its use of --unique. While there ma= y well be users who prefer this style, I suggest that it shouldn't be t= he default in AUCTeX, because it's not the default for other viewers.
--
--001a113d527c129fdb055f3a5713-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 01 13:53:07 2017 Received: (at 29525) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Dec 2017 18:53:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40429 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eKqQs-0006HP-Sl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 13:53:07 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37895) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eKqQq-0006Gm-MF for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 13:53:04 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eKqQi-0007M5-SI for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 13:52:59 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:33242) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eKqQi-0007Ls-PV for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 13:52:56 -0500 Received: from mail-it0-f49.google.com ([209.85.214.49]:42262) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eKqQi-0005Jw-E4 for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 13:52:56 -0500 Received: by mail-it0-f49.google.com with SMTP id p139so3541155itb.1 for <29525@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:52:56 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJ8I3Z3abFnIKSS1wQ7uHskc70nBS4QdnhXdnF/szakurY6CDfQ /CHauNEmoQF+FfCFu6bvrBuKy1VS0YNnKDsg5hc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMa1q2GCJWR1ysLt5FVWRwGbqWVQkKwKyVWiFDsKPJ1DrJvLhG/JDeYGkZmk/flMLRTHt2YTqjagk5je5JiUAA4= X-Received: by 10.36.228.68 with SMTP id o65mr3329511ith.128.1512154375543; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:52:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.138.98 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:52:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Mos=C3=A8_Giordano?= Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 19:52:14 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#29525: Please don't default to "--unique" mode for Okular To: Reuben Thomas Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29525 Cc: 29525@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Hi Reuben, 2017-11-30 22:57 GMT+01:00 Reuben Thomas : > I noticed that Emacs seemed only ever to start one instance of Okular, wh= ich > makes it impossible to view multiple files side-by-side. I tracked this d= own > to its use of --unique. While there may well be users who prefer this sty= le, Without this option you'll need to close Okular to view again (C-c C-v) the document without spawing several instances of the viewer for the same document. > I suggest that it shouldn't be the default in AUCTeX, because it's not th= e > default for other viewers. In this regard Evince is smarter than Okular, doesn't create a new instance for the same document if already open. I'm not saying the default shouldn't be changed, but I personally like it because I more often work on a single document rather than multiple at once. I'd like to hear comments from other users on this. Bye, Mos=C3=A8 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 01 16:49:34 2017 Received: (at 29525) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Dec 2017 21:49:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40669 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eKtBe-0005xp-KB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:49:34 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44674) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eKtBc-0005xd-UX for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:49:33 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eKtBT-0000FD-MM for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:49:27 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:37268) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eKtBT-0000F2-JW; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:49:23 -0500 Received: from p4fe3ead6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([79.227.234.214]:57681 helo=MUTANT) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eKtBT-0000S1-29; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:49:23 -0500 From: Arash Esbati To: Reuben Thomas Subject: Re: bug#29525: Please don't default to "--unique" mode for Okular References: Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 22:49:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Reuben Thomas's message of "Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:57:36 +0000") Message-ID: <864lpap19k.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29525 Cc: 29525@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Reuben Thomas writes: > I noticed that Emacs seemed only ever to start one instance of Okular, > which makes it impossible to view multiple files side-by-side. I tracked > this down to its use of --unique. While there may well be users who prefer > this style, I suggest that it shouldn't be the default in AUCTeX, because > it's not the default for other viewers. Hi Reuben, it is also the default for Yap, dviout, SumatraPDF. And this is the problem with defaults: Never 100% satisfied customers. But this is Emacs, you can customize everything :-) Just set your preference in `TeX-view-program-list' in order to overwrite AUCTeX's default which is defined in `TeX-view-program-list-builtin'. E.g., in your .emacs with: (setq TeX-view-program-list '((Okular" ("okular %o" (mode-io-correlate "#src:%n%a")) "okular"))) Best, Arash From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 02 13:52:49 2017 Received: (at 29525) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Dec 2017 18:52:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42177 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLCu8-0003Qk-OL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 13:52:49 -0500 Received: from mail-ot0-f180.google.com ([74.125.82.180]:34962) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLCu6-0003QW-O8 for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 13:52:47 -0500 Received: by mail-ot0-f180.google.com with SMTP id q3so11685616oth.2 for <29525@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 10:52:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sc3d.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZE2n434d02X8H15Y7NnKx3vGkl4pI057THawB3Sq5Sc=; b=3vyX/i3rOCb70EfX7I3Uw96fReIfEHE/nMzI1rCO2s3LEaBkEgsYz8+JeqQG4ecg/u o4LjAxeB6L+xogVBKdIUs/ysFPVtEaHOqwixCJW5P1VFjz36hF2j+p8qrzx04Vahh0yP ptmvxrELqPhOHhvJWmvc80k+/faLyva4jD/kI= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZE2n434d02X8H15Y7NnKx3vGkl4pI057THawB3Sq5Sc=; b=ge9J7lpqXjIkYyL0CFiKe8KkInClfK2RCZZcYI+si01pxGFzcUorHkwbp5BtU6uZgV gTxDA/lBWbSi+AmNA0yyu/GLT/GVbBSvRHSN0Pgm/JIb87iHbJd7n0OYxjVsPtF6TTNW 0kbKM3OFvwdTn/D0AxDlSDgPzptsm8E0iaBCGNf2/VeoH63T3+/F6KtK+JmyR4byWkHs tc8ZmMXvcjx6LZTTD8wSsI9LIITMhv+yBNxTC8yafqAOo29uxTlOpVwKjil5I6pbrLta V+6lR821T8DZtIWG0UL1Piwl4NI+jZyuaCVzhWal+EfyrHekaghr4D5ZI5QDmsuXW5zW jzlg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6THdJVj5DBKY/9siLj7+aWM46a8Une8+O0Ydz+k3GZSmrUHy6R wW/L0OplFonkstLDCzIV8Tw9gfsRBWxncAg7Dk3fqNKg X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaqE6ickn+p5t/nhnrnpBdM7l0cJRINNNPcV9X32tWKdmKOUt9fS0BBCX5dJKTDBnnv5wgCIcnpmkHbrbOgE0Y= X-Received: by 10.157.44.168 with SMTP id p37mr11884280otb.65.1512240760603; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 10:52:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.38.225 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 10:52:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <864lpap19k.fsf@gnu.org> References: <864lpap19k.fsf@gnu.org> From: Reuben Thomas Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 18:52:40 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#29525: Please don't default to "--unique" mode for Okular To: Arash Esbati Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113cd72259de96055f5ffdfc" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29525 Cc: 29525@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) --001a113cd72259de96055f5ffdfc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BThanks very much to both of you for your feedback.=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B On 1 December 2017 at 21:49, Arash Esbati wrote: > > it is also the default for Yap, dviout, SumatraPDF. And this is the > problem with defaults: Never 100% satisfied customers. The problem in this case is not the default per se (though it is hard to work out how to configure it: the customize interface for this setting is overcomplicated), it is that the default is different for different previewers. The default should (as far as possible) be the same, so that changing viewers does not change the behaviour. =E2=80=8BMos=C3=A8 said: "Without this option you'll need to close Okular t= o view again (C-c C-v) the document without spawing several instances of the viewer for the same document.=E2=80=8B" This is not exactly true: once Okular (or Evince) has been spawned, there is no need to run the View command again: both viewers auto-reload. =E2=80=8BSo I would be interested to know for how many viewers it's possibl= e to have this workflow: 1. Start a new instance of a viewer (C-c C-v). 2. Edit the document and reprocess; auto-reload. If this is possible in most viewers, I suggest it should be the default setting. On the other hand, if most viewers use a single instance model, then single instance should be the default for all viewers that support it. For the Customize interface, I'm not sure what to suggest. The current interface is far too complicated, but if it were made simpler (e.g. to have a "single instance" toggle) then it would not be so general. But as it stands it seems very hard to use without reading the source code (which negates the point of customize). Arash, you mention editing .emacs; this is a shame. It's not the 1990s any more: I don't even have a .emacs file, I have .emacs.d/init.el; but more to the point, the default should be to say "customize foo to bar". To advise editing .emacs is either a) confusing, b) an admission that Customization isn't manageable, or c) both. --=20 https://rrt.sc3d.org --001a113cd72259de96055f5ffdfc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BThanks very much to both of you for your feedba= ck.=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B

On 1 December 2017 at 21:49, Arash Esbati <arash@gnu.o= rg> wrote:

it is also the default for Yap, dviout, SumatraPDF.=C2=A0 And this is the problem with defaults: Never 100% satisfied customers.
The problem in this case is not the default per s= e (though it is hard to work out how to configure it: the customize interfa= ce for this setting is overcomplicated), it is that the default is differen= t for different previewers. The default should (as far as possible) be the = same, so that changing viewers does not change the behaviour.

=E2=80=8BMos=C3=A8 said: "Without this option you&#= 39;ll need to close Okular to view again (C-c C-v) the document without spawing several instances of the viewer for the same document.=E2=80=8B"

This is not exactly true: once Okular (or Evince) has been spawned, the= re is no need to run the View command again: both viewers auto-reload.
<= /div>

=
=E2=80=8BSo I would be interested to know for how many viewer= s it's possible to have this workflow:

1. Start a new instance of a viewer (C-c C-v).

2. Edit the document and reprocess; auto-relo= ad.

If this is possible in most = viewers, I suggest it should be the default setting.
On the other hand, if most viewers use a single instan= ce model, then single instance should be the default for all viewers that s= upport it.

For the Customize int= erface, I'm not sure what to suggest. The current interface is far too = complicated, but if it were made simpler (e.g. to have a "single insta= nce" toggle) then it would not be so general. But as it stands it seem= s very hard to use without reading the source code (which negates the point= of customize).

Arash, you menti= on editing .emacs; this is a shame. It's not the 1990s any more: I don&= #39;t even have a .emacs file, I have .emacs.d/init.el; but more to the poi= nt, the default should be to say "customize foo to bar". To advis= e editing .emacs is either a) confusing, b) an admission that Customization= isn't manageable, or c) both.

--
--001a113cd72259de96055f5ffdfc-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 02 20:14:13 2017 Received: (at 29525) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2017 01:14:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42321 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLIrF-0000qA-9O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 20:14:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57985) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLIrE-0000pz-3I for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 20:14:12 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLIr5-0001OV-Pp for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 20:14:06 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:56854) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLIr5-0001O7-MW for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 20:14:03 -0500 Received: from mail-it0-f53.google.com ([209.85.214.53]:45050) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eLIr5-000442-BL for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 20:14:03 -0500 Received: by mail-it0-f53.google.com with SMTP id b5so6407956itc.3 for <29525@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 17:14:03 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4R0yVhvkfsTSNJBu75vEzMI3PNGI7w+quKmx1CnjKOutAXG627 eJgUEK+ojaQG9Z9o0gswtZkyDJt8/tRrOEDdAag= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaU+UVEaUreiY8TTnSO2kp6ht8HZJBvX2gaW3+f7oKDzcJRRQcUN4ZpjtajX9JBXarI9dr/dYUuhkR3iMhMggE= X-Received: by 10.36.228.15 with SMTP id o15mr7681452ith.46.1512263642631; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 17:14:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.138.98 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 17:13:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <864lpap19k.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Mos=C3=A8_Giordano?= Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 02:13:22 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#29525: Please don't default to "--unique" mode for Okular To: Reuben Thomas Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29525 Cc: Arash Esbati , 29525@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) 2017-12-02 19:52 GMT+01:00 Reuben Thomas : > Thanks very much to both of you for your feedback. > > On 1 December 2017 at 21:49, Arash Esbati wrote: >> >> >> it is also the default for Yap, dviout, SumatraPDF. And this is the >> problem with defaults: Never 100% satisfied customers. > > > The problem in this case is not the default per se (though it is hard to > work out how to configure it: the customize interface for this setting is > overcomplicated), it is that the default is different for different > previewers. The default should (as far as possible) be the same, so that > changing viewers does not change the behaviour. > > Mos=C3=A8 said: "Without this option you'll need to close Okular to view = again > (C-c C-v) the document without spawing several instances of the viewer fo= r > the same document." > > This is not exactly true: once Okular (or Evince) has been spawned, there= is > no need to run the View command again: both viewers auto-reload. You're saying that it isn't necessary, this doesn't make my previous statement false --- I mentioned C-c C-v for a reason. Switching to the viewer with C-c C-v is what I do, rather than using the window manager to get to the viewer: I have always several programs open at the same time, Emacs' and Okular's windows are rarely the closest ones. Also, C-c C-a opens the viewer with TeX-view at the end of compilation, but this is optional. The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced that the issue you raised is sensible but the best solution would be to fix first upstream in Okular. It'd be a good improvement. After that, I'll be more than happy to remove the --unique option. If you are working with many documents at the same time (say 3-4 or even more) switching between Emacs and the wanted document can be really annoying, using C-c C-v brings to focus the right instance of the viewer. This is what Evince does and is much more convenient. > For the Customize interface, I'm not sure what to suggest. The current > interface is far too complicated, but if it were made simpler (e.g. to ha= ve > a "single instance" toggle) then it would not be so general. This is an interesting suggestion but probably not so easy to adopt. > Arash, you mention editing .emacs; this is a shame. Please, there is no need to put shame on anyone. > It's not the 1990s any > more: I don't even have a .emacs file, I have .emacs.d/init.el I honestly don't get what you mean here. > but more to > the point, the default should be to say "customize foo to bar". To advise > editing .emacs is either a) confusing, b) an admission that Customization > isn't manageable, or c) both. Well, he did suggest you to customize `TeX-view-program-list', *and* provided you, as a possibility, with two lines of code to add to your init file to accomplish the same task. It's up to you to decide what's best for you. I really don't see what's the problem here. Bye, Mos=C3=A8 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 03 04:26:11 2017 Received: (at 29525) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2017 09:26:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42434 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLQXK-0001Ai-K9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 04:26:10 -0500 Received: from mail-ot0-f177.google.com ([74.125.82.177]:44810) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLQXI-0001AW-Qu for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 04:26:09 -0500 Received: by mail-ot0-f177.google.com with SMTP id d27so12419288ote.11 for <29525@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 01:26:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sc3d.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yx0eltN6592ubb1JB2zStPN3VnyIxHOsGufR1p5PzHk=; b=TlPxXw6S/0nOGa8781HwBLl86Xtw4HgshFGPV0G/JJM8PX+CusqCiMKNTQTku+SyoX jfxsA8NcAohMWDKYZOKvcQoEYr5Pl/Ykl8+Syl1fRChSl4wLsW3m21TWnFu32T2Y1KOO zDc4Dt1rbBxIVKlyO5yafkij40Pfwoz10YuZg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yx0eltN6592ubb1JB2zStPN3VnyIxHOsGufR1p5PzHk=; b=FYafMl/bWHKXmC0h2KcLJeklMMBpn7xAjtb1IfI8AQxLFlupeKkV6j/zcTd2Q7gN5q ChZwCi9gvHIEwjP3hfdWzpzTxvs/bR6tQ3QcAwQd+IdkM3vw2nDNf49DR7Unz1OwXy6r ht52bHepbC0ef2EmjgPOdmpfYYEH8fD+7R/fIDbu4gE3kWFng+US1Lj1luvHhFPGf78i Svygf5+LcEj2MZgc9aNdOfTSU0CBDqNT/G9vbxJANi6VoKlhDhsdW4ngFnivXZAN/JSK NMLt9KbykCYfaxNNBlN/Tqn+phZN7OjbUil0Nu8o1zbOn43KAwwCNFGDKtFVMf3vyilP +/4A== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX58G6YePiKXfVa8ol/JZs3aaT6aHDNhPF2JlwK5VcF4iG/fEfYZ akl4ve3Waj8oeOmdn7hzFqo181DDRcC00l0JK0/p5w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbNVlQUqmPueJrz5C5nHMhkaSOowsiMz19U6oMaGRkt+xMoChHP2UM5GrGiPwHkBy7gPelbEUKO/mZ1q4EdW8U= X-Received: by 10.157.44.168 with SMTP id p37mr13097690otb.65.1512293162778; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 01:26:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.38.225 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 01:26:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <864lpap19k.fsf@gnu.org> From: Reuben Thomas Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 09:26:02 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#29525: Please don't default to "--unique" mode for Okular To: =?UTF-8?Q?Mos=C3=A8_Giordano?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113cd722c395f8055f6c300b" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29525 Cc: Arash Esbati , 29525@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) --001a113cd722c395f8055f6c300b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3 December 2017 at 01:13, Mos=C3=A8 Giordano wrote: > The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced that the issue you > raised is sensible but the best solution would be to fix first > upstream in Okular. It'd be a good improvement. After that, I'll be > more than happy to remove the --unique option. > I agree that okular should be able to do this. If you are working with many documents at the same time (say 3-4 or > even more) switching between Emacs and the wanted document can be > really annoying, using C-c C-v brings to focus the right instance of > the viewer. This is what Evince does and is much more convenient. > I agree, but this is a problem to solve with the window manager, not the application behaviour. Sometimes, this behaviour of Evince is annoying, because it means I can't have two views of the same documents (as I can in Emacs, ironically!). > Please, there is no need to put shame on anyone. > =E2=80=8BI apologise, I think this was misinterpreted. When in English we s= ay something is "a shame", this does not mean that anyone should necessarily "be ashamed". Well, he did suggest you to customize `TeX-view-program-list', *and* > provided you, as a possibility, with two lines of code to add to your > init file to accomplish the same task. It's up to you to decide > what's best for you. I really don't see what's the problem here. > =E2=80=8BThe problem is that this attitude is still common with Emacs packa= ge developers, and it hurts users, especially naive users. We should only talk about customizing. Because of this "two ways to do it" attitude we have these problems: 1. Newer users are confused. "Should I use customize or edit .emacs [whatever that is]?"=E2=80=8B No wonder Emacs seems confusing and complicat= ed. 2. We provide inadequate, incomplete or poor-quality customize interfaces (as in the present case) because "well, the user can always edit .emacs instead". In other programs with a user-editable configuration file, editing the configuration file is a last resort, when there is something that cannot be configured in the preferences dialog, or a bug in the program. This should be true in Emacs too, for all users: customize should be easy for newer users and convenient for advanced users. Thanks again. At least, as you observed at the start, what I want is possible. However, had I not been an Emacs Lisp programmer, I would have had to ask an expert just to achieve this simple change. --=20 https://rrt.sc3d.org --001a113cd722c395f8055f6c300b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 3= December 2017 at 01:13, Mos=C3=A8 Giordano <mose@gnu.org> wrot= e:
=C2=A0
Th= e more I think about this, the more I'm convinced that the issue you raised is sensible but the best solution would be to fix first
upstream in Okular.=C2=A0 It'd be a good improvement.=C2=A0 After that,= I'll be
more than happy to remove the --unique option.

I agree that okular should be able to do this.
<= div style=3D"font-family:times new roman,serif;font-size:small" class=3D"gm= ail_default">
If you are working with many documents at the same time (say 3-4 or
even more) switching between Emacs and the wanted document can be
really annoying, using C-c C-v brings to focus the right instance of
the viewer.=C2=A0 This is what Evince does and is much more convenient.
=

I agree, but this is a pr= oblem to solve with the window manager, not the application behaviour.

Sometimes, this behaviour of Evince = is annoying, because it means I can't have two views of the same docume= nts (as I can in Emacs, ironically!).
=C2=A0
Please, there is no need to put shame on anyone.

=E2=80=8BI apologise, I think this was misin= terpreted. When in English we say something is "a shame", this do= es not mean that anyone should necessarily "be ashamed".

Well, he did suggest you to customize `= TeX-view-program-list', *and*
provided you, as a possibility, with two lines of code to add to your
init file to accomplish the same task.=C2=A0 It's up to you to decide what's best for you.=C2=A0 I really don't see what's the proble= m here.

=E2=80=8BThe prob= lem is that this attitude is still common with Emacs package developers, an= d it hurts users, especially naive users. We should only talk about customi= zing. Because of this "two ways to do it" attitude we have these = problems:

1. Newer users are con= fused. "Should I use customize or edit .emacs [whatever that is]?"= ;=E2=80=8B No wonder Emacs seems confusing and complicated.

2. We provide inadequate, incomplete or poor-qu= ality customize interfaces (as in the present case) because "well, the= user can always edit .emacs instead".

In other programs with a user-editable configuration file, = editing the configuration file is a last resort, when there is something th= at cannot be configured in the preferences dialog, or a bug in the program.= This should be true in Emacs too, for all users: customize should be easy = for newer users and convenient for advanced users.

<= /div>
Thanks again. At least, as you observed at the start, wh= at I want is possible. However, had I not been an Emacs Lisp programmer, I = would have had to ask an expert just to achieve this simple change.

--
https://rrt.sc3d.org
--001a113cd722c395f8055f6c300b-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 03 11:33:52 2017 Received: (at 29525) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2017 16:33:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43614 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLXDD-0000HY-Ns for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 11:33:51 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49348) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLXDB-0000HL-Q8 for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 11:33:50 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLXD3-0003SS-E0 for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 11:33:44 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:38798) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLXD3-0003SI-Ag for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 11:33:41 -0500 Received: from mail-it0-f52.google.com ([209.85.214.52]:40747) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eLXD2-0006N7-RJ for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 11:33:41 -0500 Received: by mail-it0-f52.google.com with SMTP id f190so1240573ita.5 for <29525@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 08:33:40 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mKSX162WHXDg3F3mpyr1htnRzn8mPIc6XWF9XkiyhtaW99l7RTs KFk23pSMBIZ4/O/T4XhxC5d6XwFzMais40BDacA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbxHGaIstogvCL7K5pEvTKyshQ9bmPN0hIpwCVk/Q9qFjpQm6naL880EekwUAh/QLAJPsGhPAMuPX1QVM7eLK0= X-Received: by 10.36.107.69 with SMTP id v66mr1454797itc.10.1512318820125; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 08:33:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.138.98 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 08:32:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <864lpap19k.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Mos=C3=A8_Giordano?= Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 17:32:59 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#29525: Please don't default to "--unique" mode for Okular To: Reuben Thomas Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29525 Cc: Arash Esbati , 29525@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) 2017-12-03 10:26 GMT+01:00 Reuben Thomas : >> If you are working with many documents at the same time (say 3-4 or >> even more) switching between Emacs and the wanted document can be >> really annoying, using C-c C-v brings to focus the right instance of >> the viewer. This is what Evince does and is much more convenient. > > > I agree, but this is a problem to solve with the window manager, not the > application behaviour. I don't see how it's a problem of the windows manager. I happen to have several programs open at the same time and often switch between them. For example, I'm using the terminal, than switch to Emacs and want to see the output document. The next window that can be reached by ALT + TAB is the terminal, not Okular, how could the window manager guess I want to switch directly to the document viewer? I missed to stress one important point of C-c C-v: when forward search is enabled --- and I guess most of us has it on --- C-c C-v moves the viewer to the corresponding point, this isn't something that can be achieved by simply switching to the viewer with ALT + TAB. Thus, removing the --unique option now would make extremely annoying using forward search with Okular. As I already stated, I agree that currently working with multiple documents can be inconvenient, but breaking usage of forward search doesn't look a solution to me. Fixing the behavior of Okular seems a better approach. After that, the --unique option is surely not needed anymore. Bye, Mos=C3=A8 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 03 17:15:45 2017 Received: (at 29525) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2017 22:15:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43907 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLcY5-0001oT-IG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 17:15:45 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37640) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLcY3-0001fd-6I for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 17:15:43 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLcXu-0007Vp-O0 for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 17:15:37 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:43462) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLcXu-0007Vj-JV; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 17:15:34 -0500 Received: from p5b326333.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([91.50.99.51]:59021 helo=MUTANT) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eLcXu-0002SN-3W; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 17:15:34 -0500 From: Arash Esbati To: Reuben Thomas Subject: Re: bug#29525: Please don't default to "--unique" mode for Okular References: <864lpap19k.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2017 23:15:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Reuben Thomas's message of "Sat, 2 Dec 2017 18:52:40 +0000") Message-ID: <867eu3h30n.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29525 Cc: 29525@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Reuben Thomas writes: > On 1 December 2017 at 21:49, Arash Esbati wrote: > >> it is also the default for Yap, dviout, SumatraPDF. And this is the >> problem with defaults: Never 100% satisfied customers. > > The problem in this case is not the default per se (though it is hard to > work out how to configure it: the customize interface for this setting is > overcomplicated), it is that the default is different for different > previewers. The default should (as far as possible) be the same, so that > changing viewers does not change the behaviour. I agree with this, in this case we should fix this in order to get a consistent behavior. I have a preference for the single instance version. > This is not exactly true: once Okular (or Evince) has been spawned, there > is no need to run the View command again: both viewers auto-reload. I don't Okular or Evince, so I can't tell. > For the Customize interface, I'm not sure what to suggest. The current > interface is far too complicated, but if it were made simpler (e.g. to have > a "single instance" toggle) then it would not be so general. But as it > stands it seems very hard to use without reading the source code (which > negates the point of customize). Personally, I think you're touching some darker corners of AUCTeX here. If you want more complicated stuff, have a look at `TeX-command-list' or `TeX-expand-list'. Sometimes it's not easy to reduce complexity to a minimum. But again, I might be wrong -- patches are welcome. > Arash, you mention editing .emacs; this is a shame. It's not the 1990s any > more: I don't even have a .emacs file, I have .emacs.d/init.el; >From Emacs manual: ,----[ 51.4 The Emacs Initialization File [1] ] | When Emacs is started, it normally tries to load a Lisp program from an | initialization file, or init file for short. This file, if it exists, | specifies how to initialize Emacs for you. Emacs looks for your init | file using the filenames ~/.emacs, ~/.emacs.el, or ~/.emacs.d/init.el; | you can choose to use any one of these three names (see Find Init). `---- I don't see it saying that .emacs is obsolete or should be avoided. > but more to the point, the default should be to say "customize foo to > bar". To advise editing .emacs is either a) confusing, b) an admission > that Customization isn't manageable, or c) both. I just wanted to show you the direction; please use any interface you're used to or like to use. Best, Arash Footnotes: [1] https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Init-File.html From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 04 07:58:15 2017 Received: (at 29525) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2017 12:58:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44419 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLqK7-0006Fx-Dm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 07:58:15 -0500 Received: from mail-oi0-f41.google.com ([209.85.218.41]:43405) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLqK4-0006Fh-Pq for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 07:58:13 -0500 Received: by mail-oi0-f41.google.com with SMTP id f69so11579460oig.10 for <29525@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 04:58:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sc3d.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2KKebkQHuraEXNf3oF2dCaGZOzqnyV28BndhJeumuYc=; b=4RUc82VUqHrwzGpWPASDaDX27Un6mbJUAG6eLXZSqls9VnZwgABEBhp0VOa2EIi+JK 39C4RPwf0GQXPkJSdyfOhlvJrb0+/OKdhD09VLJT3s6LegGzoF2rldUIRmMwaH28yuQs 2SDUVvBHm6fltWvjZ7JpPqnqghtDxIG5BYIpo= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2KKebkQHuraEXNf3oF2dCaGZOzqnyV28BndhJeumuYc=; b=PCJDII6E5UV4I/LI+Gahim8OhCXF82cG1sf6FRcYefXPH1wfXDG+IH9ZfQKPvpBDIA ov3Ibd90ViWW9Q+NlK4cOmfwbCOP5xw4tKGHffy6UTfidy8y9+4HzkG9KZGPNN7ZpsrU bZS7qXEK8UOHSPH1KT4cj8DZxPVIupf6t0+3W0b15X3Qt8LGLGjcJWzlqdm1Ojt7Ad6Y lkHRj+ldLiQ0g+ui7ZbQFFlaN0hxGiQK/7uPEp8bM7vRDcMNnB0vLiZotYZ0WeNCjZmU krN/cNeGXxxDa/8z5taPQUgie9sh2gmYdvmFKybGv6rT4IKCGymIZ0RDE3fo16QkHAro popQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5C3EQIlWGZSFIragFRLXtJRqUcS3fXvofUcRmhYDfQ2YE60eXa DlPl3YVYxZuwafQR4RghYY2IM678g29Di2gPiUv1mg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbQEoui0MSmFRxVUJ4pH4rC8zRu9gEfaBg+FwlnIVeAAAr8qdZVjbfc7TTNYCQCzU1eMem2QHhFqm+DtZ9sBlE= X-Received: by 10.202.81.79 with SMTP id f76mr13882318oib.7.1512392286658; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 04:58:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.38.225 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 04:58:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <864lpap19k.fsf@gnu.org> From: Reuben Thomas Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 12:58:06 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#29525: Please don't default to "--unique" mode for Okular To: =?UTF-8?Q?Mos=C3=A8_Giordano?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113b04bc01fc6e055f83455a" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29525 Cc: Arash Esbati , 29525@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) --001a113b04bc01fc6e055f83455a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 3 December 2017 at 16:32, Mos=C3=A8 Giordano wrote: > 2017-12-03 10:26 GMT+01:00 Reuben Thomas : > >> If you are working with many documents at the same time (say 3-4 or > >> even more) switching between Emacs and the wanted document can be > >> really annoying, using C-c C-v brings to focus the right instance of > >> the viewer. This is what Evince does and is much more convenient. > > > > > > I agree, but this is a problem to solve with the window manager, not th= e > > application behaviour. > > I don't see how it's a problem of the windows manager. I happen to > have several programs open at the same time and often switch between > them. For example, I'm using the terminal, than switch to Emacs and > want to see the output document. The next window that can be reached > by ALT + TAB is the terminal, not Okular, how could the window manager > guess I want to switch directly to the document viewer? > I suggest that there are two different things going on here: 1. Should an application be run single-instance, should it raise an =E2=80=8Bexisting instance if there is one for the same document, or should= it always start a new one? This is a window management problem: it should be configured in the window manager. The user might prefer different rules for different apps: for example, one might be more likely to want multiple windows showing the same document in an editor than in a viewer. 2. In some cases (for example, going back and forth between LaTeX editor and PDF preview) a more specialised protocol is used. (However, my bug report was not about this case, it was simply about launching a viewer for the current file.) In this case, the behaviour should depend on the protocol (but again, should work the same for different viewers). > I missed to stress one important point of C-c C-v =E2=80=8BThere seems to be some confusion here: you brought up C-c C-v; I d= idn't mention it. I was just using the plain "View" command from the C-c C-c menu. (I guess I should investigate forward search again, though, it's obviously useful.)=E2=80=8B --001a113b04bc01fc6e055f83455a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=C2= =A03 December 2017 at 16:32, Mos=C3=A8 Giordano <mose@gnu.org> wr= ote:
2017-12-03 10:26 GM= T+01:00 Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org&= gt;:
>> If you are working with many documents at the same time (say 3-4 o= r
>> even more) switching between Emacs and the wanted document can be<= br> >> really annoying, using C-c C-v brings to focus the right instance = of
>> the viewer.=C2=A0 This is what Evince does and is much more conven= ient.
>
>
> I agree, but this is a problem to solve with the window manager, not t= he
> application behaviour.

I don't see how it's a problem of the windows manager.=C2=A0= I happen to
have several programs open at the same time and often switch between
them.=C2=A0 For example, I'm using the terminal, than switch to Emacs a= nd
want to see the output document.=C2=A0 The next window that can be reached<= br> by ALT + TAB is the terminal, not Okular, how could the window manager
guess I want to switch directly to the document viewer?

I suggest that there are two different thing= s going on here:

1. Should an ap= plication be run single-instance, should it raise an =E2=80=8Bexisting inst= ance if there is one for the same document, or should it always start a new= one? This is a window management problem: it should be configured in the w= indow manager. The user might prefer different rules for different apps: fo= r example, one might be more likely to want multiple windows showing the sa= me document in an editor than in a viewer.

2. In some cases (for example, going back and forth between LaTe= X editor and PDF preview) a more specialised protocol is used. (However, my= bug report was not about this case, it was simply about launching a viewer= for the current file.) In this case, the behaviour should depend on the pr= otocol (but again, should work the same for different viewers).
=C2=A0
I missed to stress one important point of C-c C-v

=E2=80=8BThere seems to be some confusion here: you br= ought up C-c C-v; I didn't mention it. I was just using the plain "= ;View" command from the C-c C-c menu. (I guess I should investigate fo= rward search again, though, it's obviously useful.)=E2=80=8B
--001a113b04bc01fc6e055f83455a-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 04 08:06:47 2017 Received: (at 29525) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2017 13:06:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44437 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLqSN-0006T6-C7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 08:06:47 -0500 Received: from mail-oi0-f43.google.com ([209.85.218.43]:45826) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLqSL-0006Su-8d for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 08:06:46 -0500 Received: by mail-oi0-f43.google.com with SMTP id x20so11589057oix.12 for <29525@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 05:06:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sc3d.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WpLgBIs7rdmhbcXHj870zoC7DnyrWZISYBI+fzoxW7Q=; b=ggajWKgDNoQWejwWm2J/eFYdOdxqzZ/+OYS6M/q7s/p4NgMhSFeZV4C1ugo1KIvvNs APJPrdy3L1Bh6EgIzWZrNIX+zCsGPxy+4SfJkPDoXGcMOAsEKDZpxam3U4kCTaOSUoar ntcdVriTGop+uXVjcIUi/r3El8YDXM/3yzzHI= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WpLgBIs7rdmhbcXHj870zoC7DnyrWZISYBI+fzoxW7Q=; b=lRytjIKYuvpcRgmgQa6YVsEDPKTWQ5B3OU4Rhu8qsZ1wZYHONbFCx6/drT/XWB+bDJ QtOYaStlmwFVyYkXLKYNa+49zzPz0v17WY+Ssj5cTKob15kC52Y7XsoCKKWBg3AAhKh3 aPkfccsUW185G8UzKrDZc44ymM90DzsR5N6ZVUQyj7SOmcrtgwSdtFzjX5AbYV2lbm5V KNgpN88jp8hqmvLJWLnKjnQoFYImmvQ4vQjAzZBI/hMfFK0qE3Koat/ahRdzr4U8zVOS 0y5O7r2cirZR9qxrT4Cm3X/vkqDfsVu8meG5MgX001G/2dnygqk7bZJSmVeUeQXXJFmM cFdA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7cRqoKwNx4BmlhqoweBsTUHzAhvqJmhRTantjS3U2rqgvuAhAR ed4+fFtDRiz2G44/LmtpKXwfyKN16lXc+0vaR0BuViVe X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYSlkVibTsb4s/oJ1162aMqTCrI9wpmI3SNjiG5o3f4jWKEn5UxCRPr60Qcg6XuI7bXm7wBfJqqFgdpw0WLbMk= X-Received: by 10.202.7.4 with SMTP id 4mr12952120oih.120.1512392799229; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 05:06:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.38.225 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 05:06:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <867eu3h30n.fsf@gnu.org> References: <864lpap19k.fsf@gnu.org> <867eu3h30n.fsf@gnu.org> From: Reuben Thomas Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:06:38 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#29525: Please don't default to "--unique" mode for Okular To: Arash Esbati Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c13e4928f3934055f8363c2" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29525 Cc: 29525@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --94eb2c13e4928f3934055f8363c2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3 December 2017 at 22:15, Arash Esbati wrote: > > From Emacs manual: > > ,----[ 51.4 The Emacs Initialization File [1] ] > | When Emacs is started, it normally tries to load a Lisp program from an > | initialization file, or init file for short. This file, if it exists, > | specifies how to initialize Emacs for you. Emacs looks for your init > | file using the filenames ~/.emacs, ~/.emacs.el, or ~/.emacs.d/init.el; > | you can choose to use any one of these three names (see Find Init). > `---- > > I don't see it saying that .emacs is obsolete or should be avoided. > =E2=80=8BI think I need to be more precise. Obviously, the init file is not obsolete: =E2=80=8Bit is the way that the custom file is loaded, apart from anything else! But customize should be the preferred first line of customization. Chapter 51 starts: This chapter describes some simple methods to customize the behavior of Emacs. Apart from the methods described here, see *note X Resources:: for information about using X resources to customize Emacs, and see *note Keyboard Macros:: for information about recording and replaying keyboard macros. Making more far-reaching and open-ended changes involves writing Emacs Lisp code; see *note Emacs Lisp: (elisp)Top. =E2=80=8BHence, we as package authors should not be presenting Customizatio= n and .emacs as alternatives: this is just confusing. Like the Emacs manual, use Customize for easy things, and Emacs Lisp for harder things. Indeed, where I complained that the AUCTeX interface is too complicated, it might be better to simplify it to some flags (such as "single instance"), and require the user to write Lisp code for more complicated cases. A good rule of thumb might be: if the Customize interface is harder to understand than just writing some Lisp, it's not worth having.=E2=80=8B (Just because = some level of configuration can be precisely expressed in a defcustom does not mean that it should be!) > =E2=80=8BI =E2=80=8B > just wanted to show you the direction; please use any interface you're > used to or like to use. > =E2=80=8BI am arguing not for myself, but for the way we present Emacs to, = in particular, less-experienced users. Saying "use any interface you're used to or like" is pleasant, but unhelpful and confusing. It is the sort of thing that gives Emacs a reputation of being hard to understand and only for geeks. --=20 https://rrt.sc3d.org --94eb2c13e4928f3934055f8363c2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 3= December 2017 at 22:15, Arash Esbati <arash@gnu.org> wrote:
=
From Emacs manual:

,----[ 51.4 The Emacs Initialization File [1] ]
| When Emacs is started, it normally tries to load a Lisp program from an | initialization file, or init file for short.=C2=A0 This file, if it exist= s,
| specifies how to initialize Emacs for you.=C2=A0 Emacs looks for your ini= t
| file using the filenames ~/.emacs, ~/.emacs.el, or ~/.emacs.d/init.el; | you can choose to use any one of these three names (see Find Init).
`----

I don't see it saying that .emacs is obsolete or should be avoided.
=

=E2=80=8BI think I need to b= e more precise. Obviously, the init file is not obsolete: =E2=80=8Bit is th= e way that the custom file is loaded, apart from anything else! But customi= ze should be the preferred first line of customization. Chapter 51 starts:<= /div>

This chapter de= scribes some simple methods to customize the behavior of
Emacs.

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Apart from the methods described here, see *note X Resources::= for
information about using X resources to customize Emacs, and see *no= te
Keyboard Macros:: for information about recording and replaying keybo= ard
macros.=C2=A0 Making more far-reaching and open-ended changes involv= es
writing Emacs Lisp code; see *note Emacs Lisp: (elisp)Top.
<= div style=3D"font-family:times new roman,serif;font-size:small" class=3D"gm= ail_default">
=E2=80=8BHence, we as package authors = should not be presenting Customization and .emacs as alternatives: this is = just confusing. Like the Emacs manual, use Customize for easy things, and E= macs Lisp for harder things.

Ind= eed, where I complained that the AUCTeX interface is too complicated, it mi= ght be better to simplify it to some flags (such as "single instance&q= uot;), and require the user to write Lisp code for more complicated cases.= =C2=A0 A good rule of thumb might be: if the Customize interface is harder = to understand than just writing some Lisp, it's not worth having.=E2=80= =8B (Just because some level of configuration can be precisely expressed in= a defcustom does not mean that it should be!)
=C2=A0
=E2=80=8BI =E2=80=8B
just wanted to show = you the direction; please use any interface you're
used to or like to use.

= =E2=80=8BI am arguing not for myself, but for the way we present Emacs to, = in particular, less-experienced users. Saying "use any interface you&#= 39;re used to or like" is pleasant, but unhelpful and confusing. It is= the sort of thing that gives Emacs a reputation of being hard to understan= d and only for geeks.

--
--94eb2c13e4928f3934055f8363c2-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 04 11:03:52 2017 Received: (at 29525) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2017 16:03:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45662 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLtDj-0004Kw-Sz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 11:03:52 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49511) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eLtDi-0004Kk-5W for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 11:03:50 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLtDY-00026N-Pu for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 11:03:44 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:56918) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eLtDY-00026E-Nl for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 11:03:40 -0500 Received: from mail-it0-f54.google.com ([209.85.214.54]:42245) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eLtDY-00073C-1d for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 11:03:40 -0500 Received: by mail-it0-f54.google.com with SMTP id p139so13914963itb.1 for <29525@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 08:03:39 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJxkv1zUnCO5onJulD0bmNQTPSkWMC09q3nbMuYf+ipVzvVrdA3 8vKfYTZUTOnhqPHn2ZiIIhks9EDOKw7UOnU5xuQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaaaMWX5B57rzTtOxckMdKLxlw8clO4nzQwZEn41t2F+HdibUb+sNV5TbtZAemM1H5tpE1SGigWdy5FT7bTdho= X-Received: by 10.36.107.69 with SMTP id v66mr5562525itc.10.1512403419216; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 08:03:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.138.98 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 08:02:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <864lpap19k.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Mos=C3=A8_Giordano?= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 17:02:58 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#29525: Please don't default to "--unique" mode for Okular To: Reuben Thomas Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29525 Cc: Arash Esbati , 29525@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) 2017-12-04 13:58 GMT+01:00 Reuben Thomas : >> I missed to stress one important point of C-c C-v > > > There seems to be some confusion here: you brought up C-c C-v; I didn't > mention it. I was just using the plain "View" command from the C-c C-c me= nu. > (I guess I should investigate forward search again, though, it's obviousl= y > useful.) Yes, there is some confusion: they are the same thing, C-c C-v is basically a shortcut for C-c C-c View RET RET. I'm honestly lost. Could you please explain what's the workflow you'd like to use? I thought it's something like this: 1) edit the source in AUCTeX 2) compile it with C-c C-c 3) open the output document in Okular with C-c C-v 4) switch back to Emacs with the window manager (usually ALT + TAB, I guess= ) 5) edit again 6 compile again with C-c C-c 7) switch to Okular with the window manager. The document will auto-reload 8) reiterate from point 4 If this is your workflow, forward search can't be used --- C-c C-v is run only once at point 3 --- unless you close Okular all the time. Perhaps I'm wrong, so please explain it more clearly. Bye, Mos=C3=A8 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 05 08:04:55 2017 Received: (at 29525) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Dec 2017 13:04:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46543 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eMCu6-0007CJ-Om for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 08:04:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47643) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eMCu4-0007C6-VU for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 08:04:53 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMCtw-00028b-LA for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 08:04:47 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47715) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMCtw-00028U-HO for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 08:04:44 -0500 Received: from mail-it0-f46.google.com ([209.85.214.46]:41466) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eMCtw-0006mA-9r for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 08:04:44 -0500 Received: by mail-it0-f46.google.com with SMTP id x28so1355452ita.0 for <29525@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 05:04:44 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7HteTQMJkny9Fdv/iSMoQt4yekOKDYOGOvFJYvLuUlevtsvo3Q lBua2p/03MxuH3mp2YLZvUpzz4IBB82wroEnkmU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaMqSW+13udzhabsEloRWHinuNR+C4pfcoLp4Ht0hzenu0l+6Bt/QfbevUajgGeOCD60topKLMDPFJWYTs9CCc= X-Received: by 10.107.191.6 with SMTP id p6mr29214692iof.278.1512479083435; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 05:04:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.138.98 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 05:04:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <864lpap19k.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Mos=C3=A8_Giordano?= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 14:04:02 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#29525: Please don't default to "--unique" mode for Okular To: Reuben Thomas , 29525@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29525 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) 2017-12-05 13:57 GMT+01:00 Reuben Thomas : >> I'm honestly lost. Could you please explain what's the workflow you'd >> like to use? I thought it's something like this: >> >> 1) edit the source in AUCTeX >> >> 2) compile it with C-c C-c >> >> 3) open the output document in Okular with C-c C-v >> >> 4) switch back to Emacs with the window manager (usually ALT + TAB, I >> guess) >> >> 5) edit again >> >> 6 compile again with C-c C-c >> >> 7) switch to Okular with the window manager. The document will >> auto-reload >> >> 8) reiterate from point 4 >> >> If this is your workflow, forward search can't be used --- C-c C-v is >> run only once at point 3 --- unless you close Okular all the time. > > > This is correct: I am not using forward search. My bug report is simply > about launching a viewer. My workflow is much simpler: I open the viewer > once, and after that I let it auto-refresh, changing position in the PDF > window using its own controls. Ok, then I'm against making the usage of forward search more uncomfortable by default. If Okular will ever get the ability to not open a new instance for an already open document --- and I really hope so --- the default can be safely changed. Bye, Mos=C3=A8 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 04 17:26:28 2024 Received: (at 29525) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Mar 2024 22:26:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45165 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rhGlP-0001S0-KV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2024 17:26:27 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41284) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rhGlN-0001Rl-52 for 29525@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2024 17:26:26 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rhGkm-0005H0-Ma; Mon, 04 Mar 2024 17:25:49 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=HhyuNOGg0i0AHbcXFJjcf+c7Q0o2maeRY1r2VPcyL7M=; b=WTBKYbkuh0gYd3YqyrRm RaEcWpKayefn/0yim5ak0XRUNZni5yCFaZSvC4rXxUIRkYIvVUZ1xO5rrXgtnYEG98g5I3dJh5/f7 UW6Bj7glPo0/XSDhoezEyqPWp7Uazfn5uvj+qAQiXpWutxTHVNhcE+kNYza++LKp0IAOX7Tblt0op XYNeK1WlEL82YZOFPLJ4HLr9k1908kVDrzae4VM3tBrcVSwAgHsnGRs3EfYvbAgiS3Ofa9yQcd4a8 sgWyZ77FwkMwyUSxA+crEFqKAlWQRxq4AZyeSpExzxvZ4gZqc7MHxnP/cfdwgkptK0s9uqKwfM0/i cSk8d5DE4+YyOg==; From: Arash Esbati To: =?utf-8?Q?Mos=C3=A8?= Giordano Subject: Re: bug#29525: Please don't default to "--unique" mode for Okular In-Reply-To: (=?utf-8?Q?=22Mos=C3=A8?= Giordano"'s message of "Tue, 5 Dec 2017 14:04:02 +0100") References: <864lpap19k.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2024 23:25:45 +0100 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29525 Cc: 29525@debbugs.gnu.org, Reuben Thomas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mos=C3=A8 Giordano writes: > 2017-12-05 13:57 GMT+01:00 Reuben Thomas : >>> I'm honestly lost. Could you please explain what's the workflow you'd >>> like to use? I thought it's something like this: >>> >>> 1) edit the source in AUCTeX >>> >>> 2) compile it with C-c C-c >>> >>> 3) open the output document in Okular with C-c C-v >>> >>> 4) switch back to Emacs with the window manager (usually ALT + TAB, I >>> guess) >>> >>> 5) edit again >>> >>> 6 compile again with C-c C-c >>> >>> 7) switch to Okular with the window manager. The document will >>> auto-reload >>> >>> 8) reiterate from point 4 >>> >>> If this is your workflow, forward search can't be used --- C-c C-v is >>> run only once at point 3 --- unless you close Okular all the time. >> >> >> This is correct: I am not using forward search. My bug report is simply >> about launching a viewer. My workflow is much simpler: I open the viewer >> once, and after that I let it auto-refresh, changing position in the PDF >> window using its own controls. > > Ok, then I'm against making the usage of forward search more > uncomfortable by default. > > If Okular will ever get the ability to not open a new instance for an > already open document --- and I really hope so --- the default can be > safely changed. (I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately weren't resolved at the time.) That said, I think we can mark this report as "wontfix". Therefore, I'm closing this report. Best, Arash From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 04 17:26:43 2024 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Mar 2024 22:26:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45169 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rhGlf-0001SU-14 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2024 17:26:43 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51864) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rhGlc-0001SI-Vw for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2024 17:26:41 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rhGl3-0005LV-Qu for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2024 17:26:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:Subject:To:From:in-reply-to: references; bh=lBrJpODRlsGKCLdSdhKOSxc9TXiIp20uxguEeIja2cs=; b=MFa44g7b0fgPHr FJOFUd3/0CkMHahkqgjngiMN2lKXSrtl/AzXYflrOraQg9LT9rx26AMXHfF/0Xuzs0nEvwNdq0qOw cyX3aQdkJIqC4Yqx9s5XBO+g4iOD3EBxWKi4eeYqGrUuGvwy0KbXdP8V1/XRevMMLoVmgY5PveX0Z qfWZfcqAyuloUTITop0Tqq0G5cMRvAAqPcO8dYjMmPbJSPBhnP9fQT3vmQiT9mzrWvakSHyiqovTF AdegezEUzEZTlKDWgm2KlvV4EaFIg4JTFMIE0BgyICnAl27HgzYosDwzUq7aiY62DLnwZ7/+Q/xlo wuiraP6FX4RuM6PVsCGA==; From: Arash Esbati To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: control message for bug #29525 Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2024 23:25:58 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 29525 wontfix close 29525 quit From unknown Sat Jun 21 17:31:43 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2024 11:24:13 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator