From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:24:37 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#29373 <29373@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#29373 <29373@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.5; doc string of `self-insert-uses-region-functions' Reply-To: bug#29373 <29373@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 10:24:37 +0000 retitle 29373 24.5; doc string of `self-insert-uses-region-functions' reassign 29373 emacs submitter 29373 Drew Adams severity 29373 minor thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 20 21:56:36 2017 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2017 02:56:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49739 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eGyjj-0006Oz-PM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:56:36 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45673) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eGyjh-0006Ok-W9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:56:34 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eGyjb-0005lz-Qb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:56:28 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:50570) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eGyjb-0005lZ-Mp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:56:27 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36643) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eGyja-0001Ts-Ak for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:56:27 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eGyjX-0005ka-8m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:56:26 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:37695) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eGyjX-0005k5-0t for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:56:23 -0500 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id vAL2uKRZ009740 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 02:56:21 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id vAL2uK9w019714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 02:56:20 GMT Received: from abhmp0017.oracle.com (abhmp0017.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id vAL2uGcZ014966 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 02:56:20 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 18:56:15 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.5; doc string of `self-insert-uses-region-functions' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4615.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Two lines of the doc string are too long. The doc string is close to incomprehensible. Special hook to tell if `self-insert-command' will use the region. It must be called via `run-hook-with-args-until-success' with no arguments= . Any `post-self-insert-command' which consumes the region should register a function on this hook so that things like `delete-selection-mod= e' can refrain from consuming the region. HOW does this hook "tell if `self-insert-command' will use the region"? What does a function on this hook need to do or return, to tell that? And what does it mean for `self-insert-command' to "use the region"? What does "any `post-self-insert-command'" even mean? What is meant by "consumes the region"? Does "consume" mean the same thing in each occurrence here? What is meant by "registering" a function on a hook? Is this ONLY about `delete-selection-mode'? If not, what else is it for? A guess is that this is just a way to conditionalize the treatment of `self-insert-command' by `delete-selection-mode'. In some mode (`electric-pair-mode'), you want to use a certain function as the value of property `delete-selection' for symbol `self-insert-command'. If so, then things would likely be clearer if that was said. In that case, it needs to be understood that `delete-selection-mode' checks the value of property `delete-selection' on `self-insert-command', and if that value is nil or is a function that returns nil then `delete-selection-mode' does nothing. Say that, together with the fact that the function value of property `delete-selection-mode' for `self-insert-command' runs the hook functions in order, returning nil if any of them returns non-nil. So a function on the hook should return non-nil when its aim is to prevent deletion of the region by `self-insert-command'. Say that. Looking at the uses in the Emacs code, the aim seems to be only to prevent deletion of the region by `delete-selection-mode' before `self-insert-command' does its thing. Whether `self-insert-command' "uses" the region or "consumes" it, or even deletes it or ignores it, is irrelevant, AFAICT. All that matters is that this gives you a way to decide conditionally whether `delete-selection-mode' deletes the region on its pre-hook. In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2015-04-11 on LEG570 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/usr --host=3Di686-pc-mingw32' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 24 05:51:15 2017 Received: (at 29373-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Nov 2017 10:51:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54749 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eIBZj-00084g-1K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 05:51:15 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37905) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eIBZh-00084R-2x for 29373-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 05:51:13 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eIBZW-0007ey-85 for 29373-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 05:51:08 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:42272) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eIBZW-0007eu-4W; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 05:51:02 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2829 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eIBZV-0000c4-Hy; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 05:51:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 12:50:42 +0200 Message-Id: <83h8tk9chp.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 20 Nov 2017 18:56:15 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#29373: 24.5; doc string of `self-insert-uses-region-functions' References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29373-done Cc: 29373-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 18:56:15 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > > Two lines of the doc string are too long. Longer than 79 characters? I didn't find any such lines. > The doc string is close to incomprehensible. Such derogatory remarks are best kept out of bug reports. The facts are grave enough to tell we should fix this. > Special hook to tell if `self-insert-command' will use the region. > It must be called via `run-hook-with-args-until-success' with no arguments. > Any `post-self-insert-command' which consumes the region should > register a function on this hook so that things like `delete-selection-mode' > can refrain from consuming the region. > > HOW does this hook "tell if `self-insert-command' will use the region"? > What does a function on this hook need to do or return, to tell that? > And what does it mean for `self-insert-command' to "use the region"? > > What does "any `post-self-insert-command'" even mean? What is meant by > "consumes the region"? Does "consume" mean the same thing in each > occurrence here? What is meant by "registering" a function on a hook? post-self-insert-command really meant to refer to post-self-insert-hook. > A guess is that this is just a way to conditionalize the treatment of > `self-insert-command' by `delete-selection-mode'. In some mode > (`electric-pair-mode'), you want to use a certain function as the value > of property `delete-selection' for symbol `self-insert-command'. > > If so, then things would likely be clearer if that was said. I clarified that. > In that case, it needs to be understood that `delete-selection-mode' > checks the value of property `delete-selection' on > `self-insert-command', and if that value is nil or is a function that > returns nil then `delete-selection-mode' does nothing. The first part was already in delsel.el. I made clear that self-insert-command uses this hook via delete-selection-uses-region-p. > Say that, together with the fact that the function value of property > `delete-selection-mode' for `self-insert-command' runs the hook > functions in order, returning nil if any of them returns non-nil. This is the usual behavior of run-hook-with-args-until-success. > So a function on the hook should return non-nil when its aim is to > prevent deletion of the region by `self-insert-command'. Say that. Done. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 24 11:43:18 2017 Received: (at 29373-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Nov 2017 16:43:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56170 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eIH4Q-0003iW-8G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 11:43:18 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:30766) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eIH4O-0003iC-Jl for 29373-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 11:43:17 -0500 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id vAOGh8qf026787 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Nov 2017 16:43:09 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id vAOGh7E8011006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Nov 2017 16:43:08 GMT Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id vAOGh6ur028550; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 16:43:07 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <86584c33-6e52-4cf5-8e22-bb9952b296b2@default> Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 08:43:05 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#29373: 24.5; doc string of `self-insert-uses-region-functions' References: <> <<83h8tk9chp.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83h8tk9chp.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4615.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29373-done Cc: 29373-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > -----Original Message----- > From: Eli Zaretskii [mailto:eliz@gnu.org] > Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 2:51 AM > To: Drew Adams > Cc: 29373-done@debbugs.gnu.org > Subject: Re: bug#29373: 24.5; doc string of `self-insert-uses-region- > functions' >=20 > > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 18:56:15 -0800 (PST) > > From: Drew Adams > > > > Two lines of the doc string are too long. >=20 > Longer than 79 characters? I didn't find any such lines. Where do you see 79 as the recommended max length? Traditionaly it has been 70, IIRC. >From (elisp) `Documentation Tips': Format the documentation string so that it fits in an Emacs window on an 80-column screen. It is a good idea for most lines to be no wider than 60 characters. The first line should not be wider than 67 characters or it will look bad in the output of 'apropos'. https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Documentation-Tip= s.html 1 out of the 5 lines is less than 61 chars - not most. But if you're happy with the lengths as is, fine. > > The doc string is close to incomprehensible. >=20 > Such derogatory remarks are best kept out of bug reports. The facts > are grave enough to tell we should fix this. Nothing derogatory intended. That's a summary of the problem - lack of clarity overall. For me, at least, the wording of this doc is not very understandable. I have no idea who wrote it, nor do I care. It's not about blaming or attacking anyone. It's about calling your attention to what I, at least, think is a doc string that needs some love (improvement). And the overall problem is not the technical content; it is the lack of clarity - comprehensibility. To me, at least. Anyway, I'm sure you made an improvement, whatever change you made. Thanks for that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 24 12:08:07 2017 Received: (at 29373) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Nov 2017 17:08:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56233 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eIHSR-0004PA-9L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 12:08:07 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34916) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eIHSP-0004Oh-SE for 29373@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 12:08:06 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eIHSG-0001Ye-NY for 29373@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 12:08:00 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:34614) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eIHSG-0001X8-JV; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 12:07:56 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3170 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eIHSE-0007hh-O8; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 12:07:56 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 19:07:28 +0200 Message-Id: <83y3mv8v1r.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <86584c33-6e52-4cf5-8e22-bb9952b296b2@default> (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 24 Nov 2017 08:43:05 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#29373: 24.5; doc string of `self-insert-uses-region-functions' References: <> <<83h8tk9chp.fsf@gnu.org>> <86584c33-6e52-4cf5-8e22-bb9952b296b2@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29373 Cc: 29373@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 08:43:05 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 29373-done@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Two lines of the doc string are too long. > > > > Longer than 79 characters? I didn't find any such lines. > > Where do you see 79 as the recommended max length? Sometimes it's impossible to limit a line to 70 characters without incurring worse problems. This is one such case. > > > The doc string is close to incomprehensible. > > > > Such derogatory remarks are best kept out of bug reports. The facts > > are grave enough to tell we should fix this. > > Nothing derogatory intended. That sentence could simply be omitted without any effect on the report. May I suggest that you try to refrain from such unneeded remarks? > That's a summary of the problem - lack of clarity overall. "Lack of clarity" would be fine (although it, too, adds nothing). "Incomprehensible" is not a summary. > I have no idea who wrote it, nor do I care. It's not > about blaming or attacking anyone. It's about calling > your attention to what I, at least, think is a doc > string that needs some love (improvement). What you said in the rest of the report is enough to drawing attention. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 24 12:33:52 2017 Received: (at 29373) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Nov 2017 17:33:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56283 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eIHrM-00070X-DX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 12:33:52 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:49802) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eIHrK-00070K-Ea for 29373@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 12:33:50 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id vAOHXhwN018645 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Nov 2017 17:33:44 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id vAOHXhNs030877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Nov 2017 17:33:43 GMT Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id vAOHXhSD021038; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 17:33:43 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 09:33:42 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#29373: 24.5; doc string of `self-insert-uses-region-functions' References: <<>> <<<83h8tk9chp.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<86584c33-6e52-4cf5-8e22-bb9952b296b2@default>> <<83y3mv8v1r.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83y3mv8v1r.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4615.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29373 Cc: 29373@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > Sometimes it's impossible to limit a line to 70 characters without > incurring worse problems. This is one such case. I don't see any such "worse problems" in this case. Without any change to the wording (which does need to be changed), this shows no "worse problems": Special hook to tell if `self-insert-command' will use the region. It must be called via `run-hook-with-args-until-success' with no arguments. Any `post-self-insert-command' which consumes the region should register a function on this hook so that things like `delete-selection-mode' can refrain from consuming the region. > > > > The doc string is close to incomprehensible. > > > > > > Such derogatory remarks are best kept out of bug reports. > > > The facts are grave enough to tell we should fix this. > > > > Nothing derogatory intended. >=20 > That sentence could simply be omitted without any effect on the > report. May I suggest that you try to refrain from such unneeded > remarks? >=20 > > That's a summary of the problem - lack of clarity overall. >=20 > "Lack of clarity" would be fine (although it, too, adds nothing). > "Incomprehensible" is not a summary. "Incomprehensible" was not the summary I used. "Close to incomprehensible" is the summary I used. I stand by that characterization, as one user reporting a doc problem: to me, the doc string was close to incomprehensible. You might not find it so. It's understandable that a new doc string might not have had the attention it deserves, and so is not as clear as it could be. To me, this one was not really understandable. Perhaps you prefer the statement, "I don't understand this doc string, and I think others may also have trouble making sense of it." And no, I don't think that such a statement adds nothing, even if it is better if accompanied by guesses about the meaning, suggestions for improvement, or pointing out particular places that are especially problematic for the reporter. If a reporter has no clue what is meant and no clue what parts are particularly unclear, the simple report that a doc string is unclear to that reporter can help. We can disagree about this, of course. But my guess is that if you agree with the reporter after reading such an incomplete "Huh?" report then the aim is reached. And if you disagree with the reporter - the doc is clear to you, even if the reporter doesn't understand it at all - it is still good that the perceived problem was reported, and no harm was done. We can disagree about this too, of course. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 25 18:56:08 2017 Received: (at 29373) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Nov 2017 23:56:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58335 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eIkIq-0007Hx-Mz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 18:56:08 -0500 Received: from mail-wr0-f179.google.com ([209.85.128.179]:38798) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eIkIo-0007HT-RJ for 29373@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 18:56:07 -0500 Received: by mail-wr0-f179.google.com with SMTP id z75so21855454wrc.5 for <29373@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:56:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=fSbuuljlH8ueO6iP8wDuaeAVbDHvRf3At4RyOqMA/HQ=; b=fdL1zlJTFIWTnLF7VjKDZk9cww8j4iLhTIVFskSXUUrUeXNHC2taG4ez4+lH5KWqWn hcTbMWZ6YRcoUQC5b7TPvGCH94ipbXMPvDI8T7jqZe5VXNqmENC0aaQlRXmTfdMncf9x 32a32x0GsZlzpeIuOSm+wvVvXRSIFzCL86qhLmIY4WWwzO7qw08RYEvAO7svaGL47teZ dzqTu6zjF30k2mEJqyMeze1oV15GKrkoOwi3coGRL8hwBFAEdoUw7Av9ZNmVjl1xEktZ G7u7qZIgtEcVFADQEcE+yzpAurB43K5/71vI4IGyodZXuBpJ4Z+cnfolLHzMurCEz8aN 1CsA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fSbuuljlH8ueO6iP8wDuaeAVbDHvRf3At4RyOqMA/HQ=; b=MhaYGXa2hQp4b9DVGStIU8vf4jSOvbezobe16jLzvpdEH0wXEnkvEpnMW3+1x6gN8Y SSpWyzIq8EgxTv766plHuDR59X9K1RjzXaG21G58+ot7ZryOMC+UWS/aGcpwAeGLY6sp K0CLFeDF6kF2//Grk/v6dfMkYn9GCcFsrmaF8bYP/6Z3POCJQqVX+mmg5lN2ELWFKpTN e0ONCKd0GytlqdpSgVl/tTh5j7m0Ay5aHbHx1YoUI/p0TNBEAG3YDNZN8ZX/k7mFU8vH 66SvnqIxqkMRLZLixuSp/nLJ/1LRmYsjdGvZF4TIAizUCGi9NHVamR3PXflNiZhvpQJw T9PA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5Scfr7fBTc4rfyzBlfTbU7NmiFoow219vN4wW54x8ga34VCZuq WCf7Z/N/24YeejpOqxyEPo3OALy9Pjl7SMNtHy4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaD5LXcn9ZjNM/zq2u0wigsjRlbeQaSJCZmBhulyeHGaLA66mu/73sT/Cch48uaPLnkEVifKgX88npj8SzXgUg= X-Received: by 10.223.186.67 with SMTP id t3mr14849660wrg.276.1511654161141; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:56:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.151.116 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:56:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Noam Postavsky Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 18:56:00 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: x_0_IqCNGwuinobSGLRQUEsTW3k Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#29373: 24.5; doc string of `self-insert-uses-region-functions' To: Drew Adams Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29373 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 29373@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > "Incomprehensible" was not the summary I used. > "Close to incomprehensible" is the summary I used. I don't think it's especially useful to focus too much on this particular choice of phrase, but overall, I find your bug reports tend towards a more rant-like and haranguing tone. From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:24:37 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator