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(c-24-18-253-84.hsd1.wa.comcast.net. [24.18.253.84]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g7sm28109877pfj.13.2017.11.12.03.02.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 12 Nov 2017 03:02:53 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Marusich To: guix-patches@gnu.org Subject: [PATCH 0/1] Improve the "Substitutes" documentation Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 03:02:33 -0800 Message-Id: <20171112110233.1384-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.14.2 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: myglc2@gmail.com, Chris Marusich , leo@famulari.name X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Hi Guix, Attached is a patch which attempts to improve the clarity of the Substitutes section by moving its content into subsections. I have also taken the liberty of adding some new information, which should clarify (1) the question of whether or not substitutes are enabled by default, and (2) the --fallback option. The following email thread demonstrates that this information was not clear enough, so hopefully it is clear enough now: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-guix/2017-11/msg00032.html Best regards, Chris Marusich (1): doc: Split the "Substitutes" section into subsections. doc/guix.texi | 126 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++--------------- 1 file changed, 94 insertions(+), 32 deletions(-) -- 2.14.2 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 12 06:06:33 2017 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Nov 2017 11:06:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36046 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eDq5v-0003FA-Ce for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 06:06:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36779) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eDq5t-0003Ey-Le for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 06:06:30 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDq5m-00077l-N4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 06:06:24 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:59654) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDq5m-00077f-Jo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 06:06:22 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55983) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDq5k-0000hC-Iw for guix-patches@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 06:06:22 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDq5f-00075P-HG for guix-patches@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 06:06:20 -0500 Received: from mail-pf0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22d]:44335) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDq5f-000752-8g for guix-patches@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 06:06:15 -0500 Received: by mail-pf0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id x7so9871601pfa.1 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 03:06:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:references; bh=dRgshGl31SDXVIpg5EtdkqUGgunw9lnpUVZW+0XDOTw=; b=ewe9PZ7cBYTe8TGfwxPTLCPmjSEtf1rwE5LY9G6QgpEkWIXFQHD9WDdIac8lkQeDdb QYS4WlSMyWynYCNsgtZqD6B+LqOfOUF20p89Agu32BNADOi9dZDTcN2QXCTxtPNMhvEX 9gzbBXpZ6luEMZoPOMy4DoV9iyUqDbTXR7k08zEg3/D0Z/VDZXOBr6DEBtLeUObkuTIT PqbA4wnSQ/VWYweFPxXhV+STCk1Tjdb0W7eIHBfuhmCL67eTUHreRhj6h4B7V3bE8pUO oJv28Hv8m9dVfV1GsOxBKC3CF463aCj5vdDUlVPRUZYC8q+nAqV+QdOKyEW9wJetsfpd Iz8w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to :references; bh=dRgshGl31SDXVIpg5EtdkqUGgunw9lnpUVZW+0XDOTw=; b=lMu/9uoWnDaI1eHSKoZU4TA3w97MSIehvsnEtgDOyK9zoCZoFyM8uNZV8vka82vttg EYzcqa8keat8W5TN0WGDNHoA25VnzJfzi9orTL77S9DYdU+sWujKOW8JvCjLgqNIp7br W3RqOzDpwU7eBd1aLNqAY68CsE/cCVmbEFV4a1vodx+nIKorVL6/rCRl7iBsDRGdjqve j8qZtUniW7Wo1PEzIbi9SZMCxLYVNd7+31fzXi3KwUHiFuI6OJH5jxlDFBbqYwkuHuL3 ONwtoQS/NPfkJJlVmzPRI+es44MO7tIPPu2FjDkCDamCTIPf2CLLfft/pQ0Wl0z1qxuR r77g== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5mpkETy5+TRHjm5CCdnOgKaq/zyL673l+nTMajn5cFz3NxVFfS BlKnLgWnuPRB7uOZyGljFyghWg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYP17WnuZymXZMBq7vvhMVkba9ybhvGtSCFCNKMRm2WANdlswSmSvw3mTzODIn4YTIaktFb0Q== X-Received: by 10.101.65.4 with SMTP id w4mr5413797pgp.74.1510484773425; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 03:06:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from garuda.hsd1.wa.comcast.net. (c-24-18-253-84.hsd1.wa.comcast.net. [24.18.253.84]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s71sm29531595pfa.147.2017.11.12.03.06.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 12 Nov 2017 03:06:12 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Marusich To: guix-patches@gnu.org Subject: [PATCH 1/1] doc: Split the "Substitutes" section into subsections. Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 03:05:58 -0800 Message-Id: <20171112110558.1447-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.14.2 In-Reply-To: <20171112110233.1384-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> References: <20171112110233.1384-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: myglc2@gmail.com, Chris Marusich , leo@famulari.name X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) * doc/guix.texi (Substitutes): Move information into sections, and create one new subsection regarding substitution failure. (Top): In the detailed listing, add entries for the new subsections. (Hydra): Move info about Hydra here. Add information that explains when substitutes are enabled by default. (Substitute Server Authorization): Move information about how to enable or disable substitutes here. (Substitute Authentication): Move information about how Guix authenticates substitutes here. (Proxy Settings): Move information about how to download substitutes via proxy here. (Substitution Failure): New section. Add information about how Guix handles substitution failure. Be extra clear about behavior concerning --fallback. (On Trusting Binaries): Move information about trusting binaries here. (Invoking guix-daemon): Remove an incorrect statement about when substitutes are enabled by default. (Common Build Options): Clarify the behavior of --fallback. Co-authored-by: myglc2 --- doc/guix.texi | 126 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++--------------- 1 file changed, 94 insertions(+), 32 deletions(-) diff --git a/doc/guix.texi b/doc/guix.texi index 11a9de689..404ea2406 100644 --- a/doc/guix.texi +++ b/doc/guix.texi @@ -130,6 +130,15 @@ Package Management * Invoking guix pack:: Creating software bundles. * Invoking guix archive:: Exporting and importing store files. +Substitutes + +* Hydra:: One particular source of substitutes. +* Substitute Server Authorization:: How to enable or disable substitutes. +* Substitute Authentication:: How Guix verifies substitutes. +* Proxy Settings:: How to get substitutes via proxy. +* Substitution Failure:: What happens when substitution fails. +* On Trusting Binaries:: How can you trust that binary blob? + Programming Interface * Defining Packages:: Defining new packages. @@ -1108,10 +1117,6 @@ Do not use substitutes for build products. That is, always build things locally instead of allowing downloads of pre-built binaries (@pxref{Substitutes}). -By default substitutes are used, unless the client---such as the -@command{guix package} command---is explicitly invoked with -@code{--no-substitutes}. - When the daemon runs with @code{--no-substitutes}, clients can still explicitly enable substitution @i{via} the @code{set-build-options} remote procedure call (@pxref{The Store}). @@ -2108,7 +2113,6 @@ preserve transformations across upgrades, you should define your own package variant in a Guile module and add it to @code{GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH} (@pxref{Defining Packages}). - @node Substitutes @section Substitutes @@ -2116,8 +2120,8 @@ package variant in a Guile module and add it to @code{GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH} @cindex pre-built binaries Guix supports transparent source/binary deployment, which means that it can either build things locally, or download pre-built items from a -server. We call these pre-built items @dfn{substitutes}---they are -substitutes for local build results. In many cases, downloading a +server, or both. We call these pre-built items @dfn{substitutes}---they +are substitutes for local build results. In many cases, downloading a substitute is much faster than building things locally. Substitutes can be anything resulting from a derivation build @@ -2125,6 +2129,20 @@ Substitutes can be anything resulting from a derivation build pre-built package binaries, but source tarballs, for instance, which also result from derivation builds, can be available as substitutes. +@menu +* Hydra:: One particular source of substitutes. +* Substitute Server Authorization:: How to enable or disable substitutes. +* Substitute Authentication:: How Guix verifies substitutes. +* Proxy Settings:: How to get substitutes via proxy. +* Substitution Failure:: What happens when substitution fails. +* On Trusting Binaries:: How can you trust that binary blob? +@end menu + +@node Hydra +@subsection Hydra + +@cindex hydra +@cindex build farm The @code{hydra.gnu.org} server is a front-end to a build farm that builds packages from the GNU distribution continuously for some architectures, and makes them available as substitutes. This is the @@ -2141,9 +2159,19 @@ using HTTP makes all communications visible to an eavesdropper, who could use the information gathered to determine, for instance, whether your system has unpatched security vulnerabilities. +Substitutes from Hydra are enabled by default when using the Guix System +Distribution (@pxref{GNU Distribution}). However, substitutes are +disabled by default when using Guix on a foreign distribution +(@pxref{Installation}). The following paragraphs describe how to enable +or disable substitutes for Hydra; the same procedure can also be used to +enable substitutes for any other substitute server. + + +@node Substitute Server Authorization +@subsection Substitute Server Authorization + @cindex security -@cindex digital signatures -@cindex substitutes, authorization thereof +@cindex substitutes, how to enable @cindex access control list (ACL), for substitutes @cindex ACL (access control list), for substitutes To allow Guix to download substitutes from @code{hydra.gnu.org} or a @@ -2153,7 +2181,7 @@ imports, using the @command{guix archive} command (@pxref{Invoking guix archive}). Doing so implies that you trust @code{hydra.gnu.org} to not be compromised and to serve genuine substitutes. -This public key is installed along with Guix, in +Hydra's public key is installed along with Guix, in @code{@var{prefix}/share/guix/hydra.gnu.org.pub}, where @var{prefix} is the installation prefix of Guix. If you installed Guix from source, make sure you checked the GPG signature of @@ -2194,6 +2222,17 @@ The following files would be downloaded: This indicates that substitutes from @code{hydra.gnu.org} are usable and will be downloaded, when possible, for future builds. +@cindex substitutes, how to disable +The substitute mechanism can be disabled globally by running +@code{guix-daemon} with @code{--no-substitutes} (@pxref{Invoking +guix-daemon}). It can also be disabled temporarily by passing the +@code{--no-substitutes} option to @command{guix package}, @command{guix +build}, and other command-line tools. + +@node Substitute Authentication +@subsection Substitute Authentication + +@cindex digital signatures Guix detects and raises an error when attempting to use a substitute that has been tampered with. Likewise, it ignores substitutes that are not signed, or that are not signed by one of the keys listed in the ACL. @@ -2218,15 +2257,6 @@ comes first in the list and can be considered a mirror of produce the same binaries, thanks to bit-reproducible builds (see below). -@vindex http_proxy -Substitutes are downloaded over HTTP or HTTPS. -The @code{http_proxy} environment -variable can be set in the environment of @command{guix-daemon} and is -honored for downloads of substitutes. Note that the value of -@code{http_proxy} in the environment where @command{guix build}, -@command{guix package}, and other client commands are run has -@emph{absolutely no effect}. - When using HTTPS, the server's X.509 certificate is @emph{not} validated (in other words, the server is not authenticated), contrary to what HTTPS clients such as Web browsers usually do. This is because Guix @@ -2234,18 +2264,49 @@ authenticates substitute information itself, as explained above, which is what we care about (whereas X.509 certificates are about authenticating bindings between domain names and public keys.) -You can get statistics on the substitutes provided by a server using the -@command{guix weather} command (@pxref{Invoking guix weather}). - -The substitute mechanism can be disabled globally by running -@code{guix-daemon} with @code{--no-substitutes} (@pxref{Invoking -guix-daemon}). It can also be disabled temporarily by passing the -@code{--no-substitutes} option to @command{guix package}, @command{guix -build}, and other command-line tools. - +@node Proxy Settings +@subsection Proxy Settings -@unnumberedsubsec On Trusting Binaries +@vindex http_proxy +Substitutes are downloaded over HTTP or HTTPS. +The @code{http_proxy} environment +variable can be set in the environment of @command{guix-daemon} and is +honored for downloads of substitutes. Note that the value of +@code{http_proxy} in the environment where @command{guix build}, +@command{guix package}, and other client commands are run has +@emph{absolutely no effect}. +@node Substitution Failure +@subsection Substitution Failure + +Even when a substitute for a derivation is available, sometimes the +substitution attempt will fail. This can happen for a variety of +reasons: the substitute server might be offline, the substitute may +recently have been deleted, the connection might have been interrupted, +etc. + +When substitutes are enabled and a substitute for a derivation is +available, but the substitution attempt fails, Guix will attempt to +build the derivation locally depending on whether or not +@code{--fallback} was given (@pxref{fallback-option}). Specifically, if +@code{--fallback} was omitted, then no local build will be performed, +and the derivation is considered to have failed. However, if +@code{--fallback} was given, then Guix will attempt to build the +derivation locally, and the success or failure of the derivation depends +on the success or failure of the local build. Note that when +substitutes are disabled or no substitute is available for the +derivation in question, a local build will @emph{always} be performed, +regardless of whether or not @code{--fallback} was given. + +To get an idea of how many substitutes are available right now, you can +try running the @command{guix weather} command (@pxref{Invoking guix +weather}). This command provides statistics on the substitutes provided +by a server. + +@node On Trusting Binaries +@subsection On Trusting Binaries + +@cindex trust, of pre-built binaries Today, each individual's control over their own computing is at the mercy of institutions, corporations, and groups with enough power and determination to subvert the computing infrastructure and exploit its @@ -2272,7 +2333,6 @@ In the future, we want Guix to have support to publish and retrieve binaries to/from other users, in a peer-to-peer fashion. If you would like to discuss this project, join us on @email{guix-devel@@gnu.org}. - @node Packages with Multiple Outputs @section Packages with Multiple Outputs @@ -5191,9 +5251,11 @@ derivations has failed. @itemx -n Do not build the derivations. +@anchor{fallback-option} @item --fallback -When substituting a pre-built binary fails, fall back to building -packages locally. +Attempt to build locally instead of issuing an error when substitutes +are enabled and a substitute is available, but the substitution attempt +fails (@pxref{Substitution Failure}). @item --substitute-urls=@var{urls} @anchor{client-substitute-urls} -- 2.14.2 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 12 06:21:35 2017 Received: (at 29271) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Nov 2017 11:21:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36059 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eDqKU-0003bC-RB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 06:21:35 -0500 Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.194]:40228) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eDqKS-0003b4-U9 for 29271@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 06:21:33 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 181.221.145.151 Received: from adfeno-pc1 (unknown [181.221.145.151]) (Authenticated sender: adfeno@hyperbola.info) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2B6E7C5A49 for <29271@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 12:21:30 +0100 (CET) From: Adonay Felipe Nogueira To: 29271@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [bug#29271] [PATCH 0/1] Improve the "Substitutes" documentation References: <20171112110233.1384-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 09:21:27 -0200 In-Reply-To: <20171112110233.1384-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> (Chris Marusich's message of "Sun, 12 Nov 2017 03:02:33 -0800") Message-ID: <87po8n7new.fsf@hyperbola.info> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29271 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Nice work! ;) Chris Marusich writes: > Hi Guix, > > Attached is a patch which attempts to improve the clarity of the > Substitutes section by moving its content into subsections. I have > also taken the liberty of adding some new information, which should > clarify (1) the question of whether or not substitutes are enabled by > default, and (2) the --fallback option. The following email thread > demonstrates that this information was not clear enough, so hopefully > it is clear enough now: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-guix/2017-11/msg00032.html > > Best regards, > > Chris Marusich (1): > doc: Split the "Substitutes" section into subsections. > > doc/guix.texi | 126 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++---------= ------ > 1 file changed, 94 insertions(+), 32 deletions(-) --=20 - https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno - Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (n=C3=A3o confundir com gratis). - "WhatsApp"? Ele n=C3=A3o =C3=A9 livre. Por favor, veja formas de se comun= icar instantaneamente comigo no endere=C3=A7o abaixo. - Contato: https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno#vCard - Arquivos comuns aceitos (apenas sem DRM): Corel Draw, Microsoft Office, MP3, MP4, WMA, WMV. - Arquivos comuns aceitos e enviados: CSV, GNU Dia, GNU Emacs Org, GNU GIMP, Inkscape SVG, JPG, LibreOffice (padr=C3=A3o ODF), OGG, OPUS, PDF (apenas sem DRM), PNG, TXT, WEBM. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 12 08:57:00 2017 Received: (at 29271) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Nov 2017 13:57:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36186 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eDsku-0000mN-Mf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 08:57:00 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58253) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eDskr-0000m7-CO for 29271@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 08:56:59 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDskl-0007pU-5a for 29271@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 08:56:52 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:41299) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDskU-0007TG-4y; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 08:56:34 -0500 Received: from peder.onsbrabantnet.nl ([88.159.206.46]:42606 helo=dundal.peder.onsbrabantnet.nl) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eDskT-0003C2-O8; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 08:56:34 -0500 From: Jan Nieuwenhuizen To: Chris Marusich Subject: Re: [bug#29271] [PATCH 1/1] doc: Split the "Substitutes" section into subsections. Organization: AvatarAcademy.nl References: <20171112110233.1384-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> <20171112110558.1447-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> X-Url: http://AvatarAcademy.nl Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 14:56:23 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20171112110558.1447-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> (Chris Marusich's message of "Sun, 12 Nov 2017 03:05:58 -0800") Message-ID: <87mv3rwqgo.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29271 Cc: 29271@debbugs.gnu.org, myglc2@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Chris Marusich writes: > +Substitutes from Hydra are enabled by default when using the Guix System > +Distribution (@pxref{GNU Distribution}). However, substitutes are > +disabled by default when using Guix on a foreign distribution > +(@pxref{Installation}). It's great to have this clarified, however I wonder about the rationale of this decision? janneke --=20 Jan Nieuwenhuizen | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar=C2=AE http://AvatarAcademy.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 12 15:25:12 2017 Received: (at 29271) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Nov 2017 20:25:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37226 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eDyoa-0005eq-Bx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:25:12 -0500 Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.28]:46041) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eDyoY-0005eh-4h for 29271@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:25:11 -0500 Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAF7C208C6; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:25:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:25:08 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=famulari.name; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= mesmtp; bh=+XlnLHEDFWc/d8fAIy2gM9A9iO+qm/wX4n2V0fz+w3k=; b=KAeH/ 132SmUQq4PdD9nsLvXSSzbjr9T6kmZpDPmfwCZnt1n2aFfKVHDv0lAKJITAPDkIP NmJcKvoLhdxKIrqlzllhGKtArTk0Voh9xvHxj4r3BmxS9HTSlSHftg1K6m4H4AlJ pyzj/HxOEUSQAXYEuFeswTIIjYZx8h+VyrVN1Q= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=+XlnLHEDFWc/d8fAIy2gM9A9iO+qm /wX4n2V0fz+w3k=; b=fjT5oYesUbgJM4jKoeH/6YQ7rUUtiE32exZh3wfqjP/eo iY0dhHfgfKQonHhz/zO9enBRIizSP13IRNlZiqYpKpoppe+CrPMHkBAO9nDA6k3m BH6/wA+3D0DWLIiOkLxidrcja+twlgczGnspa1grOx/wIEPlYC4TTnUhL9QuZnvh v58zJ9opr75PES2ngQRwl5VPnBP1Vg+NuVeh2UVz3qzW1kTWCMmb1/lBQH1Lt6HU 57/5VvIx/2SPpCzLJDw0/dXY777x972mHyh87ixaCxHUOGNG6BaAOx6jnzAMlN2H R99D0vrpPqcg10b275Dem115b0eQxlFc0TfUHTqZQ== X-ME-Sender: Received: from localhost (c-73-165-108-70.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [73.165.108.70]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 7482D241BE; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:25:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:25:06 -0500 From: Leo Famulari To: Jan Nieuwenhuizen Subject: Re: [bug#29271] [PATCH 1/1] doc: Split the "Substitutes" section into subsections. Message-ID: <20171112202506.GA10629@jasmine.lan> References: <20171112110233.1384-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> <20171112110558.1447-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> <87mv3rwqgo.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87mv3rwqgo.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29271 Cc: 29271@debbugs.gnu.org, Chris Marusich , myglc2@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 02:56:23PM +0100, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: > Chris Marusich writes: >=20 > > +Substitutes from Hydra are enabled by default when using the Guix Syst= em > > +Distribution (@pxref{GNU Distribution}). However, substitutes are > > +disabled by default when using Guix on a foreign distribution > > +(@pxref{Installation}). >=20 > It's great to have this clarified, however I wonder about the rationale > of this decision? Copied from my previous message [0]: ------ I don't know if there is a design choice here, but the steps required to authorize substitutes for Guix on another distro require root. So, we can't make it "just work" without the user elevating their privileges. It's not the only part of our installation guide that requires root, however. On GuixSD, we can control the entire system during installation, so we enable substitutes by default. ------ [0] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-guix/2017-11/msg00048.html --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEsFFZSPHn08G5gDigJkb6MLrKfwgFAloIrh8ACgkQJkb6MLrK fwgFMhAAmUHQ2tm8M3rN3wNK70K23xIu+lD8GK3QuIEQgtVavIxNOJZ0Eo/b2oNM Kbbzc2H/B20/pz+fqKZw/IJ1Bd6mDHxUUMZq+N2EaW2balPRK5Fe1hIUEzaTKTGd 0xEdhpiBDlAZlif8YpS210StUgx/XnEL6jOd1Xq2Iz/Lr+x9RSz4ImDduGPJwjfh z6KYTf0jFvIOML1GOHhR/bKIaCOphxfbAU2PxMJI3PLltIRVwo06b7yW/LPvsGmG k74yabN6RX6G+7SPRn51YeZKwH+ttkOZZDisEB/FtHfbhcC1xA6fidLohbnHRosk dPl/sMOkTJ3sVZAO5iO9ggNFiNXaR9fl7EQv7ygC2xPEV2zhm5RvFKdtnDy/Wx3W NtYpX1LmcvmyUEbBFLfZXA6wjKe/yTqa5NAs8t8MzDNdyXorx2gvQ7QqCm4gzIdU jHSiuVinsyQoj/L/OaSxqYFe34+ogYfYSASpZNzVxyRAx9rWlvGIbO1rrCU+cIgb 7XFgs2MsEbZuZb7SMtejK4I1Pi5MhokxdP12uLiyC/QTZvP5950yghFrJP2xY9Xq PZbgyDEPf+9NPiZOw1FDTyXEV1dnFtJWd1LCfqUJLIYQDuHSxP0yp5NKfc1iv/a/ FSs1HKhp5xczzQa9q9JiC78gHXQ3AFnEhkSPxo1T19ccy/KnqwQ= =gN6h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 12 15:37:02 2017 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Nov 2017 20:37:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37238 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eDz02-0007rh-Kq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:37:02 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56540) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eDz00-0007rB-Q7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:37:01 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDyzu-0004sP-KH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:36:55 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:49633) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDyzu-0004sL-Ft for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:36:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47510) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDyzq-00049R-RD for guix-patches@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:36:54 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDyzm-0004qs-Rb for guix-patches@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:36:50 -0500 Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.28]:42585) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDyzm-0004qc-NW for guix-patches@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:36:46 -0500 Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB31C20A94; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:36:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:36:45 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=famulari.name; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= mesmtp; bh=2Alfe9E1BkRFNaN/ZFxzKh8oeY/P3hWDquC1fXqDBbI=; b=fT3+c 8tX979MpjBgQLlwyONEEG8sxSNVbVSOUC9t9sHQJFP1tGUs566k1ZoS7tP4aRXZp OMGbPPDUluVSpaGhsQ0/ikUf0Yae5IoLv58lTzY/CGUzgVIfB9OLgygOyIu2XSk9 wcdVpy/emxrB3kTQLoUZt608slQGmaqcK6TeAA= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=2Alfe9E1BkRFNaN/ZFxzKh8oeY/P3 hWDquC1fXqDBbI=; b=EVQlicqAFM0Xl3DiCWxkefADomoyhwgh6js+w1c1PABu0 Xc947L7bTyWHKbQTRxT2Ntb1q/Eaxoj0MzU93s9OOxNO5cUoPFasB+V5taYSo8B+ gYPKsMkiQRCaQyXimIPPmzNEJ07qveUYNBd2rRpzPr5D4qQwsYEcCR+td/Fw6foV csF/xfrZXRxFnu9M7lzY9lNHlhqAQ2WLTJKupvqtFU9VGnqrSngJ7UeSOVX2r3oy LDS3Dco68dKRyI5xFVtsVU3OelDiwho27XmEdti22ATf0VfFeeP2xhZR5FKRBhF/ DMLfrQ1xqbh0vF4WsolYaybRx2WMAQgsRFINJiSVg== X-ME-Sender: Received: from localhost (c-73-165-108-70.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [73.165.108.70]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id AEC3D7F8DB; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:36:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:36:44 -0500 From: Leo Famulari To: Chris Marusich Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/1] doc: Split the "Substitutes" section into subsections. Message-ID: <20171112203644.GB10629@jasmine.lan> References: <20171112110233.1384-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> <20171112110558.1447-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="RASg3xLB4tUQ4RcS" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20171112110558.1447-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: myglc2@gmail.com, guix-patches@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) --RASg3xLB4tUQ4RcS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 03:05:58AM -0800, Chris Marusich wrote: > * doc/guix.texi (Substitutes): Move information into sections, and create one > new subsection regarding substitution failure. > (Top): In the detailed listing, add entries for the new subsections. > (Hydra): Move info about Hydra here. Add information that explains when > substitutes are enabled by default. > (Substitute Server Authorization): Move information about how to enable or > disable substitutes here. > (Substitute Authentication): Move information about how Guix authenticates > substitutes here. > (Proxy Settings): Move information about how to download substitutes via > proxy here. > (Substitution Failure): New section. Add information about how Guix handles > substitution failure. Be extra clear about behavior concerning --fallback. > (On Trusting Binaries): Move information about trusting binaries here. > (Invoking guix-daemon): Remove an incorrect statement about when substitutes > are enabled by default. > (Common Build Options): Clarify the behavior of --fallback. Hi, thanks for your efforts to improve the documentation. Personally, I find it impossible to read diffs of natural language text; it just doesn't work for me like it does with code. So, I will just ask, does this duplicate instructions regarding substitutes in other sections? We should be careful to avoid that. > +@anchor{fallback-option} > @item --fallback > -When substituting a pre-built binary fails, fall back to building > -packages locally. > +Attempt to build locally instead of issuing an error when substitutes > +are enabled and a substitute is available, but the substitution attempt > +fails (@pxref{Substitution Failure}). I was able to read this smaller change. I think the new sentence is too byzantine. I know what --fallback does but I found this sentence hard to understand. The condition that determines whether we "attempt to build locally" should be at the beginning of the sentence, like this: "When substitutes are enabled and a substitute is available, but the substitution fails, fall back to building the derivation locally." This is basically the same as before, but with some more detail about the condition. --RASg3xLB4tUQ4RcS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEsFFZSPHn08G5gDigJkb6MLrKfwgFAloIsNwACgkQJkb6MLrK fwixcw//adZ31mE7voZJWShRpeU0IkAF3RHk0SLCSS84qbQ0HIFQ80wxoNzzWSTL wNMViOk+O9As7PdFwNwwipc8OEJkAbmID1Tc9x6prR5O8c3pm8WYSV8x8C4TC2ew oAEStV4olVWaqsUUpJvyZYhZbKPihQb5x6fon1DEVGtqQpoWN6+mpJBQO/e7Vrd1 IqTHW2tNr7wxTCY3fkmOMuN9OqJ4qLKhqenWzke3ZzEfCk88dFOenjklQdEEVE0g IakNAg38I84BszXppqoyX2nGRp1EhMiE6lMm7TY34sZiAMjh2kh3QbxUqQ7ueg5W sWBTztc0lkluppuaekhgo11NY/IQQZmdyHgc06QJ8Jh79xk+eGD7vb21Kz5g7wHo W51TyvFtrWl7SMQcvw8Y5OKtu1gjccacvdC7yeA7O/vlSh+VFh1nVaXDgIV9Kfcl lP8fxzRv7jbTI7NO5wg3xjVIXzRkKPvVPKnawVQvz07QmiP0rdJ+yZrlrd1YolEO wLZdJAkkIELBfGQCpIIxhbLzvxC1womCCT/dvHGMBVWaXuaEFIdHja8QmcIylgGd fijqHOgzzI4jjI0On+Cg+o1CJMg2DX1Jng5KWFS7K/9MDM4mEd3s9Nb1U6gi6D1/ Hv1zpJJlhZHn6xLTq6FseC+JQftqaBmZvOEFGIpBKE0tx1BhlVo= =vCJO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --RASg3xLB4tUQ4RcS-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 12 19:17:28 2017 Received: (at 29271) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Nov 2017 00:17:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37391 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eE2RM-0004c0-8Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:17:28 -0500 Received: from mail.centurylink.net ([205.219.233.9]:54072 helo=smtp.centurylink.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eE2RJ-0004bm-JX for 29271@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:17:26 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; d=centurylink.net; s=ctl201402; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@centurylink.net; t=1510532239; h=From:Subject:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; bh=tadF5taNaNbGFlpqlfrp7zm4dnY=; b=dMwd0kTcxWUX7FZgMul9Te9qt1Gy2Y3GLZI65A4N1awcNNeICOpqIghUFzDHTcTY pwyW2uco5WCIUO8iOZYCb04SR9tMicQg+/sc+p8Vsg/v7vYgXKlzZehJISi/Ban+ 6wItduq8Y1SSfy6hm9jV/5cKEhOx9YG8hGOEg7lc3WaY1A6lyrEKV82jP+uQWkz7 3gmBGHzbCGXiET8n29XSZTpo/46bX+33gAGr/1Bbe6TdHNIYy0lWGQY0a2PXduiM xvWLQH6sgSNa8E5cc4D4TO/ZYPZgXFWQ3TkCUUjUfZKAMe9KF7WTTLNzkCliXsxF POO84nJbxEtP5Ac6Vz977Q==; X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=fvGeXxwf c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=NZ+NetAtLQgRvsdifQeAFw==:117 a=NZ+NetAtLQgRvsdifQeAFw==:17 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=1x0kU5LsU6YA:10 a=sC3jslCIGhcA:10 a=zSv6zi-ZgakA:10 a=D5sTfYfHqM53qW7j3lUA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=TEs7P5nTedKXb3vXrR4A:9 a=xPBgL6yMckYvOwJtzOAA:9 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: ZXJpY2JhdmllckBjZW50dXJ5bGluay5uZXQ= Authentication-Results: smtp03.agate.dfw.synacor.com smtp.user=ericbavier@centurylink.net; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [97.116.100.250] ([97.116.100.250:63460] helo=localhost) by smtp.centurylink.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.1.37854 r(Momo-dev:3.5.1.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384) id DF/7B-03659-F84E80A5; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:17:19 -0500 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 13:17:25 -0600 From: Eric Bavier To: Leo Famulari Subject: Re: [bug#29271] [PATCH 1/1] doc: Split the "Substitutes" section into subsections. Message-ID: <20171112131725.7dbee7aa@centurylink.net> In-Reply-To: <20171112203644.GB10629@jasmine.lan> References: <20171112110233.1384-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> <20171112110558.1447-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> <20171112203644.GB10629@jasmine.lan> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.15.1-dirty (GTK+ 2.24.31; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; boundary="Sig_/tVN9eX1ZoZTPfhX7H5k_PoL"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29271 Cc: 29271@debbugs.gnu.org, Chris Marusich , myglc2@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) --Sig_/tVN9eX1ZoZTPfhX7H5k_PoL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:36:44 -0500 Leo Famulari wrote: > On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 03:05:58AM -0800, Chris Marusich wrote: > > +@anchor{fallback-option} > > @item --fallback > > -When substituting a pre-built binary fails, fall back to building > > -packages locally. > > +Attempt to build locally instead of issuing an error when substitutes > > +are enabled and a substitute is available, but the substitution attempt > > +fails (@pxref{Substitution Failure}). =20 >=20 > I was able to read this smaller change. I think the new sentence is too > byzantine. I know what --fallback does but I found this sentence hard to > understand. Same here. >=20 > The condition that determines whether we "attempt to build locally" > should be at the beginning of the sentence, like this: >=20 > "When substitutes are enabled and a substitute is available, but the > substitution fails, fall back to building the derivation locally." >=20 > This is basically the same as before, but with some more detail about > the condition. IMHO, the original text is just fine, and succinctly conveys the origin of the option name. Perhaps just add the cross reference. `~Eric --Sig_/tVN9eX1ZoZTPfhX7H5k_PoL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEoMXjUi7471xkzbfw/XPKxxnTJWYFAloInkUACgkQ/XPKxxnT JWb3mQ//RoNg9lSNQWhGwmeKtxCYDWp624+dLCmiGZlP0FmugXDAEW+nZJVMpB+B 92Ry55JeMonHtNn77TfP7KAh0POYsHEmCJ2H9Nlx8i+lp/+KKsoUYqGwkcR/QKxx zyCde8tUdIbIp7UBjYLYd4e5bzjnrUMjzU99eXxLf3ndLYnqxyonFZ0cL8pJapn6 UgIfvqEH6vyKAtqP+2iLmuZ+6DuLfQ7GfjA5h3bsUDwscJybWfw0K5SZzCEVpOzm uhPtKBwA7xmkLpIRO6XGolMygL7bgWRLCfMFO4v7qhqh+byfqc5gNPvm2/HgPKO+ tTdB1ycYO7em5qicvkUKILFHGUzW424BrJsJ4YGgnpS2pPcxuVqClV54yDIkvSGS zyLQYalX5ytBspp7L1YSW/Ao9j5u0rghYFGEJqcUUPxPOkCOSFNWE3p1Jqv8C+3C siHBKee9mAdoznh5dahvRHTM1FT7D65MFxSMFhGjRTCRAsGe3/n31xeFIxoucc96 CaZnckegV9MBFd/gImVikRk9s96/7nH7/2TpGmOuoTm8jaJy/6XGPjETo+cEGdm6 cAeHvLcqAecm+u9pZGRIk+QIS0GhJ6dRyuoAMGNxQH35KamriCAQqrFzPUzFWEk4 AH3U+kUwwb/ILUFDUNfTWYOxvLT0QbpgR2nX0iKXqQ++6nxcjCA= =aytH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/tVN9eX1ZoZTPfhX7H5k_PoL-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 13 09:37:20 2017 Received: (at 29271) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Nov 2017 14:37:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37893 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eEFrT-00071y-QE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:37:19 -0500 Received: from mail-qt0-f195.google.com ([209.85.216.195]:43533) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eEFrQ-00071j-Bi for 29271@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:37:16 -0500 Received: by mail-qt0-f195.google.com with SMTP id j58so19763082qtj.0 for <29271@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 06:37:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=tbbjKIdR0D0n18Lo9l3XeJ0NgPqUdLcqHQwZBoIj1nE=; b=UqchQTalm4XoyTKzRcscSSyDP+c+pNGBO9aSTidYZIFcyoLQAH5ZqShGQk2O7YrngR pf076lrVzdMZG0rgWfxAqElo5Dwjn1hizgkNJLvOnqVustv8iGo5I9D5UXNwutS1VQ6w uALRcdvh55AP5QWDDS7wVTjx+lDjTx6hzpHEjABeu7nj8N1R3kSLu/UWB29IdsawHFft Z4rLqpkoohwyPpOBAyKU0M5KrGz32hmR94RTUVYVDzx96O2/cjCMhb0YtABZgUJLi0Pk cJajqM3IeTLNvqm1UoRoQLjTXzV66h1bko200CxIgET3IIQHaxqzmuNywe9TOeTt1Ui+ mCsQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=tbbjKIdR0D0n18Lo9l3XeJ0NgPqUdLcqHQwZBoIj1nE=; b=THyxNX0M0C5VCafcB7YRKGOlhX2fzTgFf6WG50xmUz5jJdL6QGe2gfMNEGlGUeToNJ xSG2ybDAFGMcapRGAXbSrgp53h2yo2gkcEIMVXUsdSca0wZvIpD5XdAEv60z0bUqzLYt AHtkAWbDu18wwD2rfwzPpgMDCzgcfZWiiKGnfMO0cGm11xlNmP3bFoxC+zozwwI36Luz ij+sI2Gj/zy1CcSkMdPV2M8R4ptZKVKsE1D1Sntc0KLUqj0TDZxN3sO2jIVjY01umzjO Z9ZLzN+1I769tipaWunnk0mmupUOjXqJjhN06Eyq4udDlNM9189dFWKxPV8+gA6luohC jfHA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4VgPNS5T0CIw4Z3NubhYrRYodOLUD4kBy3GhzBzESDbFjc0Hwz 2SOw8DXxtMz9K5MolS09RBwDGQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZgs7bEiy3wQeC8qdOt44/BnwZonc2b4CgVBV8mHM7IHchlG3FENnyv9xSFxDsku6MK3ausjA== X-Received: by 10.200.47.152 with SMTP id l24mr9601087qta.275.1510583830521; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 06:37:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1 (c-73-167-118-254.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [73.167.118.254]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q32sm11076327qtg.61.2017.11.13.06.37.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 13 Nov 2017 06:37:09 -0800 (PST) References: <20171112110233.1384-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> <20171112110558.1447-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> <87mv3rwqgo.fsf@gnu.org> <20171112202506.GA10629@jasmine.lan> User-agent: mu4e 0.9.18; emacs 25.3.1 From: myglc2 To: Leo Famulari Subject: Re: [bug#29271] [PATCH 1/1] doc: Split the "Substitutes" section into subsections. In-reply-to: <20171112202506.GA10629@jasmine.lan> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:37:08 -0500 Message-ID: <86lgjap7mz.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29271 Cc: 29271@debbugs.gnu.org, Chris Marusich , Jan Nieuwenhuizen X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) On 11/12/2017 at 20:25 Leo Famulari writes: > On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 02:56:23PM +0100, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: >> Chris Marusich writes: >> >> > +Substitutes from Hydra are enabled by default when using the Guix System >> > +Distribution (@pxref{GNU Distribution}). However, substitutes are >> > +disabled by default when using Guix on a foreign distribution >> > +(@pxref{Installation}). >> >> It's great to have this clarified, however I wonder about the rationale >> of this decision? > > Copied from my previous message [0]: > > ------ > I don't know if there is a design choice here, but the steps required to > authorize substitutes for Guix on another distro require root. So, we > can't make it "just work" without the user elevating their privileges. > It's not the only part of our installation guide that requires root, > however. > > On GuixSD, we can control the entire system during installation, so we > enable substitutes by default. > ------ > > [0] > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-guix/2017-11/msg00048.html ISTM that "disabled by default when using Guix on a foreign distribution" is too strong. How about ... Substitutes from Hydra are enabled by default in the Guix System Distribution (@pxref{GNU Distribution}) and by one of the recommended installation steps for Guix on a foreign distribution (@pxref{Installation}). - George From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 13 12:27:44 2017 Received: (at 29271) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Nov 2017 17:27:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38780 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eEIWL-0002n6-Tg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 12:27:43 -0500 Received: from mail-qk0-f172.google.com ([209.85.220.172]:53381) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eEIWK-0002mt-5n for 29271@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 12:27:40 -0500 Received: by mail-qk0-f172.google.com with SMTP id j202so9789077qke.10 for <29271@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:27:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=bhrk+xAqSF9tPwu/4M1dsWaHQdOoA7SXMhnunPds0F8=; b=RSUSR+bGjKQOPCa7WbG546B4X7cTAxgG3j3VY6oYxxAtgRknlQ2J73UXWYLWedw0Gl HIJJQRmyvvksghjuVeXK7qB4wmLchHTK73viXJ04sYNV2pIHPg4to5Jq/WHu5LALM/dZ ZqxVA22OPPnK+6LTiFOveRsixlO2bkn7MFhghaXkTFqUFFdbJdzU5dAqSueT15mzeSqi sYNx3jl7zHPebYUZxb09FO0oc6X1xIfkNqRm6P2GMZEAviXbgVsC+PZloGk2hxICplx6 ol6oOOpgKungoBEBJo8V3p/6cIKr4TXmYyJzzUcOtGDUjXxmWctcJQQAajL1KRA0hpTe Q3NA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=bhrk+xAqSF9tPwu/4M1dsWaHQdOoA7SXMhnunPds0F8=; b=rcCbfHb0Lc/fNgbqZGPFHQITrX18ipyZGiFikyoaguhMbjoPPKEUkLsCxeOxLaahz0 Av9pGVjlNb1qfasKFiCWhtCRy2XWuV/EIyjOri/hyLKcODxrJkZMlGj3eHANfnKz5plo c6FCpiP6rB8uRhCwCmCF7MwUaXuRYJqpjitKxCnAQm2FRgo3fiPwgcGHZvnPoXZC14cP pCw8eWdZdNV8VfAF0TcdOkTSXDbfas6H7Wd6CpPGzHXM/+q2ofYReMtNu9H36G9mQut3 VLxfmxTmETUEGr2DkNWhCJFim8M1TFUJMoe/9vg8eNRP/Zxkvd8raO6WYy1M/5bRShU1 3zqA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5MLGwbpBw/pN0dZX5OOV9MaUwda/UtAX9Cql9dUvAug6USK8lb Wo7JcPsvEHh+8+S1+wt5SmM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZDqQSvr2ndh7IJUsD7qpZJAktQidAROSOv+b46YEx3mIAXA4FpgctWOvtNUOOg1Bb2saxoSQ== X-Received: by 10.55.53.84 with SMTP id c81mr12388658qka.185.1510594054540; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:27:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1 (c-73-167-118-254.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [73.167.118.254]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t16sm11243166qtt.92.2017.11.13.09.27.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:27:33 -0800 (PST) From: myglc2 To: Chris Marusich Subject: Re: [bug#29271] [PATCH 1/1] doc: Split the "Substitutes" section into subsections. References: <20171112110233.1384-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> <20171112110558.1447-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 12:27:32 -0500 In-Reply-To: <20171112110558.1447-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> (Chris Marusich's message of "Sun, 12 Nov 2017 03:05:58 -0800") Message-ID: <86tvxynl6j.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29271 Cc: 29271@debbugs.gnu.org, leo@famulari.name X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) Chris, I installed the patch and read the sections. This is great stuff. In addition to the minor suggestion in a sub-thread, how about replacing... > +When substitutes are enabled and a substitute for a derivation is > +available, but the substitution attempt fails, Guix will attempt to > +build the derivation locally depending on whether or not > +@code{--fallback} was given (@pxref{fallback-option}). Specifically, if > +@code{--fallback} was omitted, then no local build will be performed, > +and the derivation is considered to have failed. However, if > +@code{--fallback} was given, then Guix will attempt to build the > +derivation locally, and the success or failure of the derivation depends > +on the success or failure of the local build. Note that when ... with... When substitutes are enabled and a substitute for a derivation is available, but the substitution attempt fails, Guix will report an error unless the @code{--fallback} was given (@pxref{fallback-option}), in which case Guix will attempt to build the derivation locally Note that when HTH - George From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 15 00:21:25 2017 Received: (at 29271) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2017 05:21:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40863 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eEq8a-0008Fn-O1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 00:21:25 -0500 Received: from mail-pg0-f46.google.com ([74.125.83.46]:45877) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eEq8Y-0008Fa-7A for 29271@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 00:21:22 -0500 Received: by mail-pg0-f46.google.com with SMTP id l19so14625970pgo.2 for <29271@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 21:21:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=Y7NVX5JLBvgHoJI91WxfffwyADCqrq2bhGKPiFOj/Ic=; b=YxVfhqc7tByuBtoQ24UrEYUFTt1m+iLrH/NOaD8/cI8EYYp2LFJBFszD39ALTBnhmz 7S0403HqZTr6Y1KzaKHyeG8cRToq4GrYGaX4mp8znEkoQ3HBmPS38ywx+iixPEwcHjQ/ wd0e7G1f9RSqkwewm9EgC37l+eHuW1QvmF5KopcrPKNbeHFsBW80mNoCz+gBRogRHTuA BUyhJy8XoXoRrFP8EBoEXx7YDghUlZnDckCROAVc1zXka3kNtGKQOtIw9yMk4ANthaRn yb9E7qJCAprqFmuMUJ4SF1dCRxI958KIycPxR3Ig+4TWWys4K328sH2D0v3LUCtclPlA Aldg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=Y7NVX5JLBvgHoJI91WxfffwyADCqrq2bhGKPiFOj/Ic=; b=bDc0nZrFEFJDWU2M9C1Ad7u9jlaFFKz2RpkGyW62fRIHDUpVaTxxpRTto4JCw6xXwN hV2ciLf8yXcEKP65G2TInhEteUGUq0yh1aPx8b/XP3m3HdBpMGgb/ObRUrCezkfazfXG CdI36uVPE4DKc6xNVFIzHNdwmZuDIryrWeZJYrSiLCugObglvSruosOUMbwt/+CrVen5 UjBEBnoVcx9gFvxbv9mwIv4QcTET3/mLf3l10+1y4Zbw3rEQt4qA0vXiPEoMh1VKMnUj Z44vQWnxfjWNHnXiy03r4BNJaSkOClDg379+e7T7SygA4eWI+XkWjOtcFjsnIxlhTnr2 0k1A== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7dZDjCJlSQPVSreF01qECmLCAhQSi4e23IQ/Ag11B+b/s14Ra6 pRZ75BK0M6DlYiN0iSivcCTrGA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMY6jRzQz+LNSgRQPVHBTRSbsz2N8tVlUq/ud+UG5wAsWYMXHrHzoLfBCFFAvrIZlN/Mloa1tQ== X-Received: by 10.99.108.70 with SMTP id h67mr8370974pgc.218.1510723275509; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 21:21:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from garuda.local ([2601:602:9d02:4725:6495:ba21:1ebe:620a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b9sm31843684pgu.20.2017.11.14.21.21.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 14 Nov 2017 21:21:13 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Marusich To: myglc2 Subject: Re: [bug#29271] [PATCH 1/1] doc: Split the "Substitutes" section into subsections. References: <20171112110233.1384-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> <20171112110558.1447-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> <87mv3rwqgo.fsf@gnu.org> <20171112202506.GA10629@jasmine.lan> <86lgjap7mz.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 21:21:05 -0800 In-Reply-To: <86lgjap7mz.fsf@gmail.com> (myglc2@gmail.com's message of "Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:37:08 -0500") Message-ID: <87efp0nmm6.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29271 Cc: 29271@debbugs.gnu.org, Jan Nieuwenhuizen , Leo Famulari X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone, Thank you for taking the time to review my patch! myglc2 writes: > On 11/12/2017 at 20:25 Leo Famulari writes: > > ISTM that "disabled by default when using Guix on a foreign > distribution" is too strong. How about ... > > Substitutes from Hydra are enabled by default in the Guix System > Distribution (@pxref{GNU Distribution}) and by one of the recommended > installation steps for Guix on a foreign distribution > (@pxref{Installation}). What if we say something like "disabled by default when using Guix on a foreign distro, unless you've explicitly enabled them via one of the recommended installation steps (@pxref{Installation})"? Let me know if you think that would be OK. I want to clarify the fact that the substitutes are disabled by default when installing Guix on a foreign distro. That's a bit surprising, and it needs to be clear. At the same time, I think it's good to remind users that they are in full control and can enable the substitutes easily. Leo Famulari writes: > Personally, I find it impossible to read diffs of natural language text; > it just doesn't work for me like it does with code. > > So, I will just ask, does this duplicate instructions regarding > substitutes in other sections? We should be careful to avoid that. No, there is no duplication (as far as I can tell!). 90% of this commit is about moving existing text into subsections. 9% is the new sub-section "Substitution Failure", and 1% is minor adjustments elsewhere (e.g., removing an incorrect statement from the "Invoking guix-daemon" section). If this were code, I might have broken it out more into separate commits, but since the GNU standards explicitly say that we don't even need ChangeLog entries for documentation, I think it's OK to conveniently squish these changes into one commit. >> +@anchor{fallback-option} >> @item --fallback >> -When substituting a pre-built binary fails, fall back to building >> -packages locally. >> +Attempt to build locally instead of issuing an error when substitutes >> +are enabled and a substitute is available, but the substitution attempt >> +fails (@pxref{Substitution Failure}). > > I was able to read this smaller change. I think the new sentence is too > byzantine. I know what --fallback does but I found this sentence hard to > understand. > > The condition that determines whether we "attempt to build locally" > should be at the beginning of the sentence, like this: > > "When substitutes are enabled and a substitute is available, but the > substitution fails, fall back to building the derivation locally." > > This is basically the same as before, but with some more detail about > the condition. I agree that is better, as long as we include a cross-reference to the more detailed "Substitution Failure" section (which is what Eric suggested). I'll update the patch along those lines. myglc2 writes: > Chris, > > I installed the patch and read the sections. This is great stuff. > > In addition to the minor suggestion in a sub-thread, how about > replacing... > >> +When substitutes are enabled and a substitute for a derivation is >> +available, but the substitution attempt fails, Guix will attempt to >> +build the derivation locally depending on whether or not >> +@code{--fallback} was given (@pxref{fallback-option}). Specifically, if >> +@code{--fallback} was omitted, then no local build will be performed, >> +and the derivation is considered to have failed. However, if >> +@code{--fallback} was given, then Guix will attempt to build the >> +derivation locally, and the success or failure of the derivation depends >> +on the success or failure of the local build. Note that when > > ... with... > > When substitutes are enabled and a substitute for a derivation is > available, but the substitution attempt fails, Guix will report an error > unless the @code{--fallback} was given (@pxref{fallback-option}), in > which case Guix will attempt to build the derivation locally Note that > when Personally, I prefer the more detailed explanation because it's less ambiguous. What does "report an error" mean? To those who already know, it might be clear, but to someone who is learning for the first time, the ambiguity is unhelpful. However, if others prefer the less verbose wording, I will use it. What do you think, Leo and Eric? =2D-=20 Chris --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEy/WXVcvn5+/vGD+x3UCaFdgiRp0FAloLzsEACgkQ3UCaFdgi Rp3f/Q//XgIdv+26mw3kb8nh7vbfDkxIu0CB+c/m/k9BzYzsEDpZcmBth5hPWRfi 7TUnddxe8sGCGMiFnTohYu1QOJ6M+pIGIWCCKcJOnxl60vIhHFLsqughybxfO+pM Gsrs2ipzuqRKxpm9hgSiShjkmN1dxHvrSKbhgYysJYm5IpGM8AJjxfqRMMXevce0 WAO3pHIOKVUgUqHSf1nWR3iviluVWziAD/YtSuMPiw89mA7PGohXJdmvT3lQsnpQ Zad07Au8WjooQVsZ0i1h8CfAD0lmD/RXECa+BDI2vfwpescvRaB3IVeQUwZ+VjE5 zKCNWopv/f39iQ8FQ3mGVzIDwQp0W9axz3VLWMai45fg36cv2VpxeVSPApdrbHva 67XgnlUuXmNo/WdvJRihvLD8ZcYuwpPQttKG3Ta6Cu2SNGNNfqkhadR0+isIEROo +EYK+nOlKVlDkrZPaf/GmQvBkC3Z2M+y5Q5n77s74Iffz906i6y7+xj4l+HH/2EQ vN1ZPJK1afI8HNmmDUf8OLpGdncyPzddVP1dAeVgSTgPUdGm2gyzehz/cWv+hWwk sCdDX3KoYbi3dxkl2ntBO3ms78kdz3nnCgRdVypg6XkY193Yx90g6GZ42B0XlC2R zOnF5Jd79ln81lIOEpRwInF6tCKXUWBc3/RzswXpS/QdBCB2X+k= =IjBA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 15 08:31:38 2017 Received: (at 29271) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2017 13:31:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41104 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eExmz-0006hR-6Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 08:31:38 -0500 Received: from mail-qt0-f178.google.com ([209.85.216.178]:51346) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eExmx-0006hD-UW for 29271@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 08:31:36 -0500 Received: by mail-qt0-f178.google.com with SMTP id e19so29438657qte.8 for <29271@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:31:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=7dshoOO2BIjGDCWMMCYnLsjxtIop432bVVPhbyqxnis=; b=tvJUKZaHLjDYqD4lZ0u+THlLVIE2WhVugk4iapJHFCek9O+EPRESLffQPZuP9N2nVK 6QH7L1BERzC/WxFY6To9VRNjGFLm6SCqcW+wRdy4UmZV3/bGc53aaHJVHuTjLSn9SYEm SWVW5xUeKqAFcdIt1dTYmYESKRVoCyss6ckgcADTIah+KtBlvTTEM+svEymq4LBgCCKX IYgnIO0riF0odNfJdIj7YB1fspZiVuK/5DuOIgFSZGFyetR0bpiMipYZQPtvwKEB9kpa I306Ny7d01UtpWXs70Cy3VNQUaSZJ5x7KsOLG9kwTvRQFTYXPGpcOZkqTSmuqd6zb64w WI+g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=7dshoOO2BIjGDCWMMCYnLsjxtIop432bVVPhbyqxnis=; b=KM0cbsXz/L/X0K/oiNMx3rvxWuwseJTtVRVfIaZ3+njGz1MSMi0nqijRfpqJ5Tng2r M7qkPrqZeIqfGyDh+vR+VK/5K6dIxefvJzP0tSbdL7jPb1V1yx4rDkTLsY75y9MRCj61 RtdqYSB1dKQ5VNARrE9vywT+NiVm9dR3Ai/ywyqUm4if+YRn1TiC2/TmtHZjveOODnv0 hDoAsgxiMB0HOvyM5iS+sTRcLvols25X27l/tbasJ363+/nZULZ+a6CnSKKaoD4DmIov PaDORKAuKuEbGzPS3M7/IY6RrJxqQnRJGemaisa8xOHvS+v9AIMNDS86qq11a1E/0l5k BraQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4JtXvFPOywruSlixA7LSfRdCEvWdvlvL2tReQjgtw6c1B1mWVP 6wCN/IEnJYDxB3/AaYxer5M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMa20moyuAQ8p2bcih1Bw8vMQTxqrAaOgs3isBhcX02IsDREJZrKHAOzEBrlK6zt+lZrEb1Uvg== X-Received: by 10.237.42.131 with SMTP id t3mr24715668qtd.188.1510752690446; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:31:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1 (c-73-167-118-254.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [73.167.118.254]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g47sm68793qtc.69.2017.11.15.05.31.29 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:31:29 -0800 (PST) From: myglc2 To: Chris Marusich Subject: Re: [bug#29271] [PATCH 1/1] doc: Split the "Substitutes" section into subsections. References: <20171112110233.1384-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> <20171112110558.1447-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> <87mv3rwqgo.fsf@gnu.org> <20171112202506.GA10629@jasmine.lan> <86lgjap7mz.fsf@gmail.com> <87efp0nmm6.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 08:31:28 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87efp0nmm6.fsf@gmail.com> (Chris Marusich's message of "Tue, 14 Nov 2017 21:21:05 -0800") Message-ID: <86tvxv4qj3.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29271 Cc: 29271@debbugs.gnu.org, Leo Famulari , Jan Nieuwenhuizen X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On 11/14/2017 at 21:21 Chris Marusich writes: [...] >> Substitutes from Hydra are enabled by default in the Guix System >> Distribution (@pxref{GNU Distribution}) and by one of the recommended >> installation steps for Guix on a foreign distribution >> (@pxref{Installation}). > > What if we say something like "disabled by default when using Guix on a > foreign distro, unless you've explicitly enabled them via one of the > recommended installation steps (@pxref{Installation})"? Let me know if > you think that would be OK. LGTM! Thanks for doing this. - George From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 20 17:40:57 2017 Received: (at 29271) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Nov 2017 22:40:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49616 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eGukL-0002sE-BM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 17:40:57 -0500 Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([141.255.128.1]:56449) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eGukK-0002s4-7s for 29271@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 17:40:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D84F7FE14; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 23:40:57 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at aquilenet.fr Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hera.aquilenet.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hmYz5vfz8Mie; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 23:40:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from ribbon (unknown [IPv6:2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4D59DFE13; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 23:40:56 +0100 (CET) From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) To: Eric Bavier Subject: Re: [bug#29271] [PATCH 1/1] doc: Split the "Substitutes" section into subsections. References: <20171112110233.1384-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> <20171112110558.1447-1-cmmarusich@gmail.com> <20171112203644.GB10629@jasmine.lan> <20171112131725.7dbee7aa@centurylink.net> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 23:40:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20171112131725.7dbee7aa@centurylink.net> (Eric Bavier's message of "Sun, 12 Nov 2017 13:17:25 -0600") Message-ID: <87shd8y3nu.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29271 Cc: 29271@debbugs.gnu.org, Chris Marusich , myglc2@gmail.com, Leo Famulari X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) Hello! Eric Bavier skribis: > On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:36:44 -0500 > Leo Famulari wrote: > >> On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 03:05:58AM -0800, Chris Marusich wrote: >> > +@anchor{fallback-option} >> > @item --fallback >> > -When substituting a pre-built binary fails, fall back to building >> > -packages locally. >> > +Attempt to build locally instead of issuing an error when substitutes >> > +are enabled and a substitute is available, but the substitution attem= pt >> > +fails (@pxref{Substitution Failure}).=20=20 >>=20 >> I was able to read this smaller change. I think the new sentence is too >> byzantine. I know what --fallback does but I found this sentence hard to >> understand. > > Same here. [...] > IMHO, the original text is just fine, and succinctly conveys the > origin of the option name. Perhaps just add the cross reference. I agree, but I=E2=80=99m biased. ;-) Apart from that, the rest LGTM. I have one minor request: > +* Hydra:: One particular source of substitutes. I would call this =E2=80=9COfficial Substitute Server=E2=80=9D or something= like that, and not mention Hydra (as a proper noun) since we=E2=80=99re not defining i= t, and since the server won=E2=80=99t run Hydra forever. With these two changes, I think you can push. Thanks for improving the manual! Ludo=E2=80=99. 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[24.18.253.84]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r1sm26875794pfg.98.2017.11.21.20.29.33 for <29271-done@debbugs.gnu.org> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 21 Nov 2017 20:29:33 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Marusich To: bug#29271 <29271-done@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Re: Status: [PATCH 0/1] Improve the "Substitutes" documentation Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 20:29:29 -0800 In-Reply-To: bug's message of "Wed\, 22 Nov 2017 04\:21\:39 +0000" Message-ID: <87ine3vsuu.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 29271-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I've committed this as 77f921587c6b784e84b98a9f2e9c821f73114340. This commit includes the minor changes suggested by Ludo. In particular, I used the phrase "official build server" instead of "hydra" where applicable; I simply added a cross-reference to the description of the --fallback option instead of making it more verbose; and I changed the language describing how substitutes are disabled by default when Guix is installed on a foreign distro to emphasize the fact that our recommended installation steps will enable them anyway. If anyone has any concerns, please let me know. =2D-=20 Chris --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEy/WXVcvn5+/vGD+x3UCaFdgiRp0FAloU/SoACgkQ3UCaFdgi Rp2SXRAAgQqo9/3R9eW73840/8ssgC8lbfIFI5foVpeunm4NbIxtyi+vcivrZCND mepnY1BXG4AUuDFMzd00u8VP7nFWsJvacNMXRrC1XwQtxjkcluo2JWET5+vG4C8Q U7YK4RPzjpUsWJ+7PZr+ya61Y6o+itBQQgoSa/TB3wvZM0qwnLbw0MxFLYYf8bfE ZHzjuw0iLx+ET+HfrIfCV6QU8gVDgLq5phVDsZFDKtVaYCNx3w9yGOakn5wONM61 qa0378ws3FBf2X6vc8bpQQ44hs2nB4sS2ExIDvmpjWw9obsiFuNu9PQQpAEVevqe L+MMQpiVIb9i09voM8oyPqcxgEEW5xB5GoGwwtiAMgo70cZzmJD8P6gjoNlpbeoy gSWHIY/rnxb3SIW/+cB1ftmQ09AucWJ/p+5+Ic5xcoQ4cQIUAi9kiKKZsuT/koOM NomjRCY1Shcv1JAf2gdoeofZd8XQe3BWSwYsuK6d207nuE5Lc19rmiH6xssf4cp6 CEGgjU/UaZGRFvxgy++BsM3NfToZhFUiv/W81IgIKWEvwv3xfEINm8b9y/OovJ1S ZU4tiXUxeuVWgZTbTGv6vXvuo/gCELj/zFkhJODqWoFYHXd6iNHYfHHFFzA4c933 9YA9Hi2/74RNpSakyGovZkfIbdmMSmnB6k1iG64njlA3Y6xTo1o= =dBrG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From unknown Sat Sep 06 00:11:14 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. 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