GNU bug report logs - #28794
[PATCH] gnu: games: Add openrct2.

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Rutger Helling <rhelling <at> mykolab.com>
To: guix-patches <at> gnu.org
Subject: [PATCH] gnu: games: Add openrct2.
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 10:32:06 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hey Guix, 

This patch adds OpenRCT2.

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

[0001-gnu-games-Add-openrct2.patch (text/x-diff, attachment)]

Message #8 received at 28794 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: ludo <at> gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès)
To: Rutger Helling <rhelling <at> mykolab.com>
Cc: 28794 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: [bug#28794] [PATCH] gnu: games: Add openrct2.
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:50:17 +0200

Hi Rutger,

Rutger Helling <rhelling <at> mykolab.com> skribis:

> From 12255f73d23a078fc2da099f22564e20cf3c69cc Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: Rutger Helling <rhelling <at> mykolab.com>
> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 10:22:27 +0200
> Subject: [PATCH] gnu: games: Add openrct2.
>
> * gnu/packages/games.scm (openrct2): New variable.

The patch LGTM.  However, when starting the program, it says that it
needs files (supposedly artwork) from the original RollerCoaster
Tycoon 2 and exits immediately.

That makes the package useless in the absence of these presumably
non-free files.

Looking at
<https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html#non-functional-data>,
I think we cannot really consider these files to be non-functional data
because the software doesn’t do anything if they are missing.  So I
wonder whether it makes sense to include it in Guix as-is.

WDYT?  Do you know what Debian or other free distros do?

Thank you,
Ludo’.

Message #11 received at 28794 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Rutger Helling <rhelling <at> mykolab.com>
To: ludo <at> gnu.org, 28794 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: [bug#28794] [PATCH] gnu: games: Add openrct2.
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:16:09 +0000

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hey Ludo,

I think it makes sense to add it, but have it be the responsibility of
the user to provide the assets, since these files can never be bundled
in Guix. Maybe it should explicitly mention that.

Note that Guix already has a similar situation with an accepted package,
OpenMW. OpenMW also does nothing without the original game's assets.
Since that got accepted I figured it made sense to add this package. 

OpenMW seems to have been accepted in Debian too:
https://packages.debian.org/sid/openmw. 

For reference, here's the list of required assets for OpenRCT2:
https://github.com/OpenRCT2/OpenRCT2/wiki/Required-RCT2-files. 

Personally I think it makes sense to provide libre engine replacements
for games, to motivate users to use those instead of running proprietary
code. The FSF directory even explicitly mentions OpenMW for example:
https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/OpenMW. 

On 2017-10-13 08:50, ludo <at> gnu.org wrote:

> Hi Rutger,
> 
> Rutger Helling <rhelling <at> mykolab.com> skribis:
> 
>> From 12255f73d23a078fc2da099f22564e20cf3c69cc Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
>> From: Rutger Helling <rhelling <at> mykolab.com>
>> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 10:22:27 +0200
>> Subject: [PATCH] gnu: games: Add openrct2.
>> 
>> * gnu/packages/games.scm (openrct2): New variable.
> 
> The patch LGTM.  However, when starting the program, it says that it
> needs files (supposedly artwork) from the original RollerCoaster
> Tycoon 2 and exits immediately.
> 
> That makes the package useless in the absence of these presumably
> non-free files.
> 
> Looking at
> <https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html#non-functional-data>,
> I think we cannot really consider these files to be non-functional data
> because the software doesn't do anything if they are missing.  So I
> wonder whether it makes sense to include it in Guix as-is.
> 
> WDYT?  Do you know what Debian or other free distros do?
> 
> Thank you,
> Ludo'.

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #14 received at 28794 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: ng0 <ng0 <at> infotropique.org>
To: Rutger Helling <rhelling <at> mykolab.com>
Cc: 28794 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, ludo <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: [bug#28794] [PATCH] gnu: games: Add openrct2.
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 11:43:45 +0000

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Rutger Helling transcribed 5.3K bytes:
> Hey Ludo,
> 
> I think it makes sense to add it, but have it be the responsibility of
> the user to provide the assets, since these files can never be bundled
> in Guix. Maybe it should explicitly mention that.
> 
> Note that Guix already has a similar situation with an accepted package,
> OpenMW. OpenMW also does nothing without the original game's assets.
> Since that got accepted I figured it made sense to add this package. 
> 
> OpenMW seems to have been accepted in Debian too:
> https://packages.debian.org/sid/openmw. 
> 
> For reference, here's the list of required assets for OpenRCT2:
> https://github.com/OpenRCT2/OpenRCT2/wiki/Required-RCT2-files. 
> 
> Personally I think it makes sense to provide libre engine replacements
> for games, to motivate users to use those instead of running proprietary
> code. The FSF directory even explicitly mentions OpenMW for example:
> https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/OpenMW. 

Additionally: Do you know if an upstream bug report already exists on
replacing the original data requirements? As much as I liked RCT2 back
then - and I still have the disks - it would be pretty cool to see a
full re-implementation with original new art!

> On 2017-10-13 08:50, ludo <at> gnu.org wrote:
> 
> > Hi Rutger,
> > 
> > Rutger Helling <rhelling <at> mykolab.com> skribis:
> > 
> >> From 12255f73d23a078fc2da099f22564e20cf3c69cc Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> >> From: Rutger Helling <rhelling <at> mykolab.com>
> >> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 10:22:27 +0200
> >> Subject: [PATCH] gnu: games: Add openrct2.
> >> 
> >> * gnu/packages/games.scm (openrct2): New variable.
> > 
> > The patch LGTM.  However, when starting the program, it says that it
> > needs files (supposedly artwork) from the original RollerCoaster
> > Tycoon 2 and exits immediately.
> > 
> > That makes the package useless in the absence of these presumably
> > non-free files.
> > 
> > Looking at
> > <https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html#non-functional-data>,
> > I think we cannot really consider these files to be non-functional data
> > because the software doesn't do anything if they are missing.  So I
> > wonder whether it makes sense to include it in Guix as-is.
> > 
> > WDYT?  Do you know what Debian or other free distros do?
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > Ludo'.

-- 
ng0
GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
GnuPG: https://dist.ng0.infotropique.org/dist/keys/
https://www.infotropique.org https://ng0.infotropique.org

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Message #17 received at 28794 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Rutger Helling <rhelling <at> mykolab.com>
To: ng0 <ng0 <at> infotropique.org>, ludo <at> gnu.org
Cc: 28794 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: [bug#28794] [PATCH] gnu: games: Add openrct2.
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:18:46 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi ng0, 

I believe the long-term goal is to replace non-free data too, as OpenTTD
did. But this will probably take a while. 

By the way Ludo, Parabola has packaged OpenMW too. OpenRCT2 is also
mentioned in a list of games by them (second link). 

https://www.parabola.nu/packages/libre/x86_64/openmw/
https://wiki.parabola.nu/List_of_Applications/Games 

I also found this thread that confirms no proprietary code is needed. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/rct/comments/57nsez/openrct2_no_longer_uses_any_code_from_the/


On 2017-10-13 13:43, ng0 wrote:

> Rutger Helling transcribed 5.3K bytes: 
> 
>> Hey Ludo,
>> 
>> I think it makes sense to add it, but have it be the responsibility of
>> the user to provide the assets, since these files can never be bundled
>> in Guix. Maybe it should explicitly mention that.
>> 
>> Note that Guix already has a similar situation with an accepted package,
>> OpenMW. OpenMW also does nothing without the original game's assets.
>> Since that got accepted I figured it made sense to add this package. 
>> 
>> OpenMW seems to have been accepted in Debian too:
>> https://packages.debian.org/sid/openmw. 
>> 
>> For reference, here's the list of required assets for OpenRCT2:
>> https://github.com/OpenRCT2/OpenRCT2/wiki/Required-RCT2-files. 
>> 
>> Personally I think it makes sense to provide libre engine replacements
>> for games, to motivate users to use those instead of running proprietary
>> code. The FSF directory even explicitly mentions OpenMW for example:
>> https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/OpenMW.
> 
> Additionally: Do you know if an upstream bug report already exists on
> replacing the original data requirements? As much as I liked RCT2 back
> then - and I still have the disks - it would be pretty cool to see a
> full re-implementation with original new art!
> 
> On 2017-10-13 08:50, ludo <at> gnu.org wrote:
> 
> Hi Rutger,
> 
> Rutger Helling <rhelling <at> mykolab.com> skribis:
> 
> From 12255f73d23a078fc2da099f22564e20cf3c69cc Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: Rutger Helling <rhelling <at> mykolab.com>
> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 10:22:27 +0200
> Subject: [PATCH] gnu: games: Add openrct2.
> 
> * gnu/packages/games.scm (openrct2): New variable. 
> The patch LGTM.  However, when starting the program, it says that it
> needs files (supposedly artwork) from the original RollerCoaster
> Tycoon 2 and exits immediately.
> 
> That makes the package useless in the absence of these presumably
> non-free files.
> 
> Looking at
> <https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html#non-functional-data>,
> I think we cannot really consider these files to be non-functional data
> because the software doesn't do anything if they are missing.  So I
> wonder whether it makes sense to include it in Guix as-is.
> 
> WDYT?  Do you know what Debian or other free distros do?
> 
> Thank you,
> Ludo'.

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #22 received at 28794-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: ludo <at> gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès)
To: Rutger Helling <rhelling <at> mykolab.com>
Cc: 28794-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: [bug#28794] [PATCH] gnu: games: Add openrct2.
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2017 16:45:40 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi Rutger,

Rutger Helling <rhelling <at> mykolab.com> skribis:

> I think it makes sense to add it, but have it be the responsibility of
> the user to provide the assets, since these files can never be bundled
> in Guix. Maybe it should explicitly mention that.

[...]

> Personally I think it makes sense to provide libre engine replacements
> for games, to motivate users to use those instead of running proprietary
> code. The FSF directory even explicitly mentions OpenMW for example:
> https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/OpenMW. 

[...]

> By the way Ludo, Parabola has packaged OpenMW too. OpenRCT2 is also
> mentioned in a list of games by them (second link). 
>
> https://www.parabola.nu/packages/libre/x86_64/openmw/
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/List_of_Applications/Games 

That makes sense to me.  I hope the free project will manage to come up
with free artwork longer-term, but in the meantime, this is probably
better than nothing.

I’ve committed with the changes below (the license if GPL v3-or-later,
as stated in source file headers.)

Thanks,
Ludo’.

[Message part 2 (text/x-patch, inline)]

diff --git a/gnu/packages/games.scm b/gnu/packages/games.scm
index 83d175d16..04b7b78d3 100644
--- a/gnu/packages/games.scm
+++ b/gnu/packages/games.scm
@@ -2669,10 +2669,15 @@ Transport Tycoon Deluxe.")
       `(("pkg-config", pkg-config)))
     (home-page "https://github.com/OpenRCT2/OpenRCT2")
     (synopsis "Free software re-implementation of RollerCoaster Tycoon 2")
-    (description "OpenRCT2 is an free software re-implementation of
+    (description "OpenRCT2 is a free software re-implementation of
 RollerCoaster Tycoon 2 (RCT2).  The gameplay revolves around building and
-maintaining an amusement park containing attractions, shops and facilities.")
-    (license license:gpl3)))
+maintaining an amusement park containing attractions, shops and facilities.
+
+Note that this package does @emph{not} provide the game assets (sounds,
+images, etc.)")
+    ;; See <https://github.com/OpenRCT2/OpenRCT2/wiki/Required-RCT2-files>
+    ;; regarding assets.
+    (license license:gpl3+)))
 
 (define-public pinball
   (package

Message #25 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Adonay Felipe Nogueira <adfeno <at> hyperbola.info>
To: guix-patches <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: [bug#28794] [PATCH] gnu: games: Add openrct2.
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2017 10:09:57 -0200

One of the bigger problems I find with such projects that aim to provide
an "engine" for running such games is that there doesn't seem to have an
effort to make the other "data" replacement. Most projects start only
with engine replacements and don't have a taskforce to provide
free/libre "data" replacement.

Now, it's true that if it's free/libre software, it might be possible to
add it to some free/libre distro. But the challenge is that these
projects seem to do little effort to not recommend non-free functional
data or non-shareable non-functional data. Such that even the software
itself directly tells something along the lines of "this is used to run
Some Non Free Game", instead of using a message like "please specify a
[insert data pack standard abbreviation here] file", so perhaps it must
be patched to remove the first messages?

ng0 <ng0 <at> infotropique.org> writes:

> Additionally: Do you know if an upstream bug report already exists on
> replacing the original data requirements? As much as I liked RCT2 back
> then - and I still have the disks - it would be pretty cool to see a
> full re-implementation with original new art!
>

-- 
- https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno
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Message #28 received at 28794 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: ludo <at> gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès)
To: Adonay Felipe Nogueira <adfeno <at> hyperbola.info>
Cc: 28794 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: [bug#28794] [PATCH] gnu: games: Add openrct2.
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 09:40:24 +0200

Hi Adonay,

Adonay Felipe Nogueira <adfeno <at> hyperbola.info> skribis:

> One of the bigger problems I find with such projects that aim to provide
> an "engine" for running such games is that there doesn't seem to have an
> effort to make the other "data" replacement. Most projects start only
> with engine replacements and don't have a taskforce to provide
> free/libre "data" replacement.

Clearly the raison d’être of a project like this one is to provide a
free replacement of the software.  So we cannot blame people behind it
for not doing enough, even though I share your concern.

As for artwork, Rutger mentioned that people behind OpenRCT2 are willing
to provide free artwork eventually.  I can imagine that this is more
“difficult” in that it’s a completely different job.

> Now, it's true that if it's free/libre software, it might be possible to
> add it to some free/libre distro. But the challenge is that these
> projects seem to do little effort to not recommend non-free functional
> data or non-shareable non-functional data. Such that even the software
> itself directly tells something along the lines of "this is used to run
> Some Non Free Game", instead of using a message like "please specify a
> [insert data pack standard abbreviation here] file", so perhaps it must
> be patched to remove the first messages?

Sure.  Do you have any specific message in mind?

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Message #31 received at 28794 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Adonay Felipe Nogueira <adfeno <at> hyperbola.info>
To: 28794 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: [bug#28794] [PATCH] gnu: games: Add openrct2.
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:16:10 -0200

I don't know which type of "data" is missing in OpenRCT2, but if one
wants to be specific to non-functional data, something along the lines
of:

"Can't find 'OpenRCT2 non-functional data. Please provide one. It's
recommended to be at least shareable."

Or for general "data" either one of:

- "Can't find 'OpenRCT2 data. Please provide one. It's recommended to be
  free/libre (as in freedom, not price)." Free/libre culture activists
  will love this one. ;)

- "Can't find 'OpenRCT2 functional data. Please provide one. It's
  recommended to be free/libre (as in freedom, not price).

  Can't find 'OpenRCT2 non-functional data. Please provide one. It's
  recommended to be at least shareable." Two messages here. The logic
  here is to split the types of data.

I wish I could have time to make the patch right now, but I have my
bachelor graduation paper/work to do right now.

Off-topic: the work is about the importance of free/libre software
*philosophy* to university management and teaching-learning
process. Work is being done at [1], if you want to contribute see [2].

[1] <https://notabug.org/adfeno/Trabalho_sobre_gestao_universitaria>.

[2] Copyright will have to be assigned to me, but I will at least give
detailed mention of the contributions in the "thanks"/greetings
part/page of the work.

ludo <at> gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:

> Hi Adonay,
>
> Adonay Felipe Nogueira <adfeno <at> hyperbola.info> skribis:
>
>> One of the bigger problems I find with such projects that aim to provide
>> an "engine" for running such games is that there doesn't seem to have an
>> effort to make the other "data" replacement. Most projects start only
>> with engine replacements and don't have a taskforce to provide
>> free/libre "data" replacement.
>
> Clearly the raison d’être of a project like this one is to provide a
> free replacement of the software.  So we cannot blame people behind it
> for not doing enough, even though I share your concern.
>
> As for artwork, Rutger mentioned that people behind OpenRCT2 are willing
> to provide free artwork eventually.  I can imagine that this is more
> “difficult” in that it’s a completely different job.
>
>> Now, it's true that if it's free/libre software, it might be possible to
>> add it to some free/libre distro. But the challenge is that these
>> projects seem to do little effort to not recommend non-free functional
>> data or non-shareable non-functional data. Such that even the software
>> itself directly tells something along the lines of "this is used to run
>> Some Non Free Game", instead of using a message like "please specify a
>> [insert data pack standard abbreviation here] file", so perhaps it must
>> be patched to remove the first messages?
>
> Sure.  Do you have any specific message in mind?
>
> Thanks,
> Ludo’.
>

-- 
- https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno
- Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com
  gratis).
- "WhatsApp"? Ele não é livre. Por favor, veja formas de se comunicar
  instantaneamente comigo no endereço abaixo.
- Contato: https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno#vCard
- Arquivos comuns aceitos (apenas sem DRM): Corel Draw, Microsoft
  Office, MP3, MP4, WMA, WMV.
- Arquivos comuns aceitos e enviados: CSV, GNU Dia, GNU Emacs Org, GNU
  GIMP, Inkscape SVG, JPG, LibreOffice (padrão ODF), OGG, OPUS, PDF
  (apenas sem DRM), PNG, TXT, WEBM.

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