GNU bug report logs - #27833
25.2; Add support for manpath command to woman.el

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Reuben Thomas <rrt <at> sc3d.org>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 25.2; Add support for manpath command to woman.el
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 23:41:03 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

The attached patch against git master adds support for the man-db
manpath command to woman.el.

For now, this can actually be better than using man, as man -k/apropos
does not currently support man directories lacking a database or whatis
file, which is typical for directories derived from PATH.

[0001-Try-to-set-woman-manpath-from-output-of-manpath-comm.patch (text/x-diff, attachment)]

[Message part 3 (text/plain, inline)]

In GNU Emacs 25.2.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.18.9)
 of 2017-04-29 built on skwd
Repository revision: d9e3264918a839bc48a01668d88a95afefebeb7c
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11804000
System Description:	Ubuntu 16.04.2 LTS

Configured features:
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ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11

Important settings:
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  value of $LC_NUMERIC: en_GB.utf8
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Major mode: Magit

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Recent messages:
Diffing changes to be committed (C-g to abort diffing) [2 times]
When done with a buffer, type C-c C-c
Auto-saving...done
previous-line: Beginning of buffer
Auto-saving...done
Saving file /home/rrt/.local/var/repo/emacs/.git/COMMIT_EDITMSG...
Wrote /home/rrt/.emacs.d/undo-tree/.!home!rrt!.local!var!repo!emacs!.git!COMMIT_EDITMSG.~undo-tree~
Wrote /home/rrt/.local/var/repo/emacs/.git/COMMIT_EDITMSG
Git finished [2 times]
[C-t] show common commands, [?] describe events, [C-h i] show manual
Quit [4 times]

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Memory information:
((conses 16 1431585 80145)
 (symbols 48 67722 5)
 (miscs 40 1574 2038)
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-- 
http://rrt.sc3d.org/

Message #8 received at 27833 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Mark Oteiza <mvoteiza <at> udel.edu>
To: Reuben Thomas <rrt <at> sc3d.org>
Cc: 27833 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#27833: 25.2; Add support for manpath command to woman.el
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 19:40:02 -0400

Reuben Thomas <rrt <at> sc3d.org> writes:
> +       (woman-parse-colon-path (condition-case nil
> +                                   (chomp (with-output-to-string
> +                                            (with-current-buffer
> +                                                standard-output
> +                                              (call-process "manpath" nil t nil))))
> +                                 (error nil))))
> +      (woman-manpath-add-locales

I suspect your chomp is analogous to string-trim-right in subr-x.el

Message #11 received at 27833 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Reuben Thomas <rrt <at> sc3d.org>
To: Mark Oteiza <mvoteiza <at> udel.edu>
Cc: 27833 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#27833: 25.2; Add support for manpath command to woman.el
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 09:43:22 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On 26 July 2017 at 00:40, Mark Oteiza <mvoteiza <at> udel.edu> wrote:

>
> Reuben Thomas <rrt <at> sc3d.org> writes:
> > +       (woman-parse-colon-path (condition-case nil
> > +                                   (chomp (with-output-to-string
> > +                                            (with-current-buffer
> > +                                                standard-output
> > +                                              (call-process "manpath"
> nil t nil))))
> > +                                 (error nil))))
> > +      (woman-manpath-add-locales
>
> I suspect your chomp is analogous to string-trim-right in subr-x.el
>

​Thanks! I'd had chomp in my Emacs init for so long I had forgotten it
wasn't part of Emacs, and didn't know about string-trim-right. Updated
patch attached (and that function purged from my init, and my personal uses
of it replaced by string-trim-right).

-- 
https://rrt.sc3d.org <http://rrt.sc3d.org>

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

[0001-Try-to-set-woman-manpath-from-output-of-manpath-comm.patch (text/x-patch, attachment)]

Message #14 received at 27833 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Reuben Thomas <rrt <at> sc3d.org>
Cc: 27833 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#27833: 25.2; Add support for manpath command to woman.el
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 17:26:04 +0300

> From: Reuben Thomas <rrt <at> sc3d.org>
> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 23:41:03 +0100
> 
> The attached patch against git master adds support for the man-db
> manpath command to woman.el.
> 
> For now, this can actually be better than using man, as man -k/apropos
> does not currently support man directories lacking a database or whatis
> file, which is typical for directories derived from PATH.

Could you please provide a rationale for this addition?

It sounds strange to me to enhance woman.el, whose main purpose is to
work without ("wo") 'man', including on systems where 'man' is not
easily available, by making it run 'manpath'.  If something is wrong
with woman-manpath's built-in database, why cannot we extend it by
adding potential candidates to those already existing there?

On top of that, I think we semi-deprecated woman.el because AFAIR it
cannot support newer roff features which are abundant in recent man
pages.  So I wonder what kind of use case do you have that on the one
hand needs woman.el, and OTOH finds its manpath emulation lacking.

Message #17 received at 27833 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Reuben Thomas <rrt <at> sc3d.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 27833 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#27833: 25.2; Add support for manpath command to woman.el
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 15:33:52 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On 26 July 2017 at 15:26, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:

> > From: Reuben Thomas <rrt <at> sc3d.org>
> > Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 23:41:03 +0100
> >
> > The attached patch against git master adds support for the man-db
> > manpath command to woman.el.
> >
> > For now, this can actually be better than using man, as man -k/apropos
> > does not currently support man directories lacking a database or whatis
> > file, which is typical for directories derived from PATH.
>
> Could you please provide a rationale for this addition?
>
> It sounds strange to me to enhance woman.el, whose main purpose is to
> work without ("wo") 'man', including on systems where 'man' is not
> easily available, by making it run 'manpath'.  If something is wrong
> with woman-manpath's built-in database, why cannot we extend it by
> adding potential candidates to those already existing there?
>

​You're right about woman being designed to run without man, I hadn't
thought of that.

There's nothing wrong with woman-manpath's built-in database. The idea is
simply to use "manpath"'s extra functionality, which looks for man pages in
directories formed from the directories on PATH.

I guess the logical thing to do would therefore be to replicate this
functionality directly, but I don't propose to do it.​


> On top of that, I think we semi-deprecated woman.el because AFAIR it
> cannot support newer roff features which are abundant in recent man
> pages.  So I wonder what kind of use case do you have that on the one
> hand needs woman.el, and OTOH finds its manpath emulation lacking.
>
​
​I explained  that: man -k does not support man directories lacking a
database.

I've fixed that for my own purposes by running "mandb" as a per-user
cronjob, so I suggest you can ignore this patch (which I agree is
ill-conceived), and close the bug report.

Thanks as always for your penetrating analysis.

-- 
https://rrt.sc3d.org <http://rrt.sc3d.org>

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #20 received at 27833 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Reuben Thomas <rrt <at> sc3d.org>
Cc: 27833 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#27833: 25.2; Add support for manpath command to woman.el
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 18:17:15 +0300

> From: Reuben Thomas <rrt <at> sc3d.org>
> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 15:33:52 +0100
> Cc: 27833 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
>  On top of that, I think we semi-deprecated woman.el because AFAIR it
>  cannot support newer roff features which are abundant in recent man
>  pages. So I wonder what kind of use case do you have that on the one
>  hand needs woman.el, and OTOH finds its manpath emulation lacking.
> 
> ​​I explained that: man -k does not support man directories lacking a database.

Yes, but why not extend man.el by using manpath?  Is there a problem
that I don't see?

Message #23 received at 27833 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Reuben Thomas <rrt <at> sc3d.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 27833 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#27833: 25.2; Add support for manpath command to woman.el
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 17:29:19 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On 26 Jul 2017 4:17 pm, "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:

> From: Reuben Thomas <rrt <at> sc3d.org>
> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 15:33:52 +0100
> Cc: 27833 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
>  On top of that, I think we semi-deprecated woman.el because AFAIR it
>  cannot support newer roff features which are abundant in recent man
>  pages. So I wonder what kind of use case do you have that on the one
>  hand needs woman.el, and OTOH finds its manpath emulation lacking.
>
> ​​I explained that: man -k does not support man directories lacking a
database.

Yes, but why not extend man.el by using manpath?  Is there a problem
that I don't see?


It would take more work, as man.el does not replicate the path
configuration as woman.el does, but relies on man -k. Furthermore, man-db
upstream is now aware of the problem and intends to fix it.

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #28 received at 27833-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Reuben Thomas <rrt <at> sc3d.org>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 27833-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#27833: 25.2; Add support for manpath command to woman.el
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 04:03:58 +0200

Reuben Thomas <rrt <at> sc3d.org> writes:

> I've fixed that for my own purposes by running "mandb" as a per-user
> cronjob, so I suggest you can ignore this patch (which I agree is
> ill-conceived), and close the bug report.

OK; I'm now closing this bug report.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

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