From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 06 23:58:11 2017 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jun 2017 03:58:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60151 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dIS6l-0001Jd-OL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 23:58:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56062) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dIS6k-0001JO-3e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 23:58:10 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dIS6e-0001iw-7Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 23:58:05 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:40825) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dIS6e-0001is-4T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 23:58:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47032) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dIS6c-0001Nb-Ro for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 23:58:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dIS6Y-0001bD-1J for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 23:58:02 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:59384) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dIS6X-0001aK-Rf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 23:57:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B63DB160080; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 20:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id j8q7hNiB91gF; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 20:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F35591600D9; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 20:57:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id n4VNaO-LoITJ; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 20:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.153.188.248]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D2BCF160080; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 20:57:54 -0700 (PDT) To: Emacs bug reports and feature requests From: Paul Eggert Subject: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 20:57:51 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: Vasilij Schneidermann X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) With the default octal display format one can copy text out of a terminal= window=20 and into an Emacs string, reliably. With the new hex display this doesn't= work=20 any more, unfortunately. For example, if I run this shell script: printf 'x\2205y\n' >foo.txt LC_ALL=3DC emacs -nw --color=3Dno --eval '(progn (setq display-raw-bytes-= as-hex t)=20 (find-file-literally "foo.txt"))' then on the terminal display I see: x\x905y If I cut and paste this (using my windowing system) into an Emacs string,= like this: "x\x905y" and then evaluate the string, the result is the string "x=E0=A4=85y", tha= t is, a=20 3-character string with the characters "x", "=E0=A4=85", and "y", where t= he middle=20 character is U+090F DEVANAGARI LETTER A. This is an incorrect representat= ion, as=20 the buffer actually contains the four characters "x", "\x90", "5", and "y= ". The=20 problem is that the string has glued together the representation of the=20 character "\x90" to the representation of the character "5", resulting in= the=20 representation of the character "\x905" which is not accurate. Please change the behavior of display-raw-bytes-as-hex so that it is not=20 ambiguous in this way. A simple solution would be to display this instead: x\x90\x35y though that is awkward because it means the ASCII 0-9, a-f, A-F would be=20 displayed as hexadecimal escapes when they follow another hexadecimal esc= ape.=20 Perhaps we can think of a better approach. One possibility would be to de= fine=20 and use a new string escape \Xxx that contains at most two hex digits. By the way, I expected display-raw-bytes-as-hex to affect how Emacs displ= ays=20 Emacs strings, too. Shouldn't it? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 07 01:17:24 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jun 2017 05:17:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60200 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dITLQ-0005AO-2I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 01:17:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38476) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dITLO-0005AA-4D for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 01:17:22 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dITLI-0001t4-2W for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 01:17:16 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:43191) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dITLB-0001qH-Ua; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 01:17:09 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3583 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1dITLB-0005T2-3d; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 01:17:09 -0400 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 08:17:04 +0300 Message-Id: <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Tue, 6 Jun 2017 20:57:51 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 20:57:51 -0700 > Cc: Vasilij Schneidermann > > then on the terminal display I see: > > x\x905y > > If I cut and paste this (using my windowing system) into an Emacs string, like this: > > "x\x905y" > > and then evaluate the string, the result is the string "xअy" display-raw-bytes-as-hex is a display-only feature, as its name tells, it isn't supposed to affect evaluation or the Lisp reader. So I'm unsure why you expected it to affect evaluation. It's the same if you define a display table to display one character as another, and then expect Emacs to perform the opposite transformation when it reads characters or strings. > A simple solution would be to display this instead: > > x\x90\x35y That would mean display-raw-bytes-as-hex is "viral", in that it affects not just the raw byte, but also the next character. That sounds sub-optimal, as it makes reading the result harder. > though that is awkward because it means the ASCII 0-9, a-f, A-F would be > displayed as hexadecimal escapes when they follow another hexadecimal escape. Exactly. > By the way, I expected display-raw-bytes-as-hex to affect how Emacs displays > Emacs strings, too. Shouldn't it? What do you mean by "Emacs strings"? Buffer text is a string, isn't it? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 07 13:44:52 2017 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jun 2017 17:44:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33512 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dIf0m-000351-3B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 13:44:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:32807) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dIf0k-00034p-OL for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 13:44:50 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dIf0f-0003SV-4d for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 13:44:45 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:54402) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dIf0f-0003SR-1J for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 13:44:45 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1dIf0e-0000bC-M6 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 13:44:44 -0400 Subject: control message for bug 24655 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.99.98) Message-Id: From: Glenn Morris Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 13:44:44 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) block 24655 by 27270 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 07 20:49:50 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jun 2017 00:49:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33852 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dIle2-0001bf-DU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 20:49:50 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:45460) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dIle1-0001bP-DD for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 20:49:49 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C6C51600A1; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id TdMY0ALQDtNy; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD9201600A6; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id Ja5WHfx6EsKY; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6C48E1600A1; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings To: Eli Zaretskii References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:41 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 06/06/2017 10:17 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > What do you mean by "Emacs strings"? I meant that if I prefer hex to octal for buffer escapes, then when I type this into *scratch*: (format "J%cK" ?\u0080) C-j I almost surely would prefer to see the result displayed as hexadecimal than as "J\200K" (the current behavior). People who prefer hex in one place are quite likely to prefer it in the other. Here's another suggestion for the buffer problem: separate problematic character pairs by "\ " in the buffer display. That way, my test case would be displayed this way in a buffer; x\x90\ 5y and this will work as expected when cut and pasted into a string, due to the backslash-space syntax already supported for strings. This buffer syntax would be less confusing than the "x\x905y" syntax that is currently used. Under this approach character pair XY is considered to be problematic if X is displayed with a hexadecimal escape and Y is a hexadecimal digit. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 07 21:05:55 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jun 2017 01:05:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33865 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dIlta-00020I-RX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 21:05:55 -0400 Received: from mail-it0-f66.google.com ([209.85.214.66]:33800) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dIltZ-000203-L2 for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 21:05:54 -0400 Received: by mail-it0-f66.google.com with SMTP id 201so838711itu.1 for <27270@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:05:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=gbLHs2wEWGEaV+mfToKpG3Kk/RA1fh1H6bQf0F2qnNw=; b=TBDvBKDOGH19CGF2ecb1ZapKyOjKsYSoYiO8uELms4PIRb8KK88Td0MNhfRsbEMQ90 lBBOR4HO+LP6meH1kgLTQdjLf2fVrKen80Jd0CTxEZ7u9j/4YR1kUAeP6v6esbjxp72n /enGU4oCO08FchTFWdfMabO2RdQZaW4uj8u4bujuVXifsHY774o20g/urVd3syf/ISCY ecjhfEgq8BBzHIg1zFJbv0sy9FJjax+s+MTWqjGDVmnB4ZCfOsMFLYivBwoRLmL4Tw0j mwQxMw62a08+9EaHn2Zfvo/Usn8kOMc6G1jD5FObWYhvvdkPiDeR9yuJEfTCg+4BH9ot oAug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=gbLHs2wEWGEaV+mfToKpG3Kk/RA1fh1H6bQf0F2qnNw=; b=gT0IY3BzvuaF4+aN3NmDnA1jkQX7L9zBxziR5J/sbhvg3z14NnZwqUEx32h76VQd5b hpxuEg0iJCScCPRCsNzJInxNNhsD5EB+jTM1gJG+ZQ0QCKMvbTEQpmstAtDKMjY6kRWI VW0A13fPEoEceDQGWW2IaqBwWGlOkIArtYcbh/uWFsY524262vbtBPNZopKHitMx7Ojp vih5nWCbLwjC57+qCV1740YeX4GNQmqUPvFzbGroxNv/IBK860uLlv9YDYLe4l0pi0jV UFE+97f4Ce7bmrCSQ2ITwa1G12zuVhTb3Y5KDmjqkkNBqN6tTpxEc+2aemcSVAN8SAVe cm5A== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBdMv3n1FEZUwDq1iHEX/Itk9xmZy3r9rNoQ5H8CNupxVwbd3z3 2bT7BgBx9C26cA== X-Received: by 10.36.242.6 with SMTP id j6mr3042750ith.1.1496883948084; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:05:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zony ([45.2.7.65]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id r77sm1651957ioe.16.2017.06.07.18.05.47 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:05:47 -0700 (PDT) From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 21:07:25 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:41 -0700") Message-ID: <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Paul Eggert writes: > On 06/06/2017 10:17 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> What do you mean by "Emacs strings"? > > I meant that if I prefer hex to octal for buffer escapes, then when I > type this into *scratch*: > > (format "J%cK" ?\u0080) C-j > > I almost surely would prefer to see the result displayed as > hexadecimal than as "J\200K" (the current behavior). 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Paul Eggert writes: > On 06/06/2017 10:17 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> What do you mean by "Emacs strings"? > > I meant that if I prefer hex to octal for buffer escapes, then when I > type this into *scratch*: > > (format "J%cK" ?\u0080) C-j > > I almost surely would prefer to see the result displayed as > hexadecimal than as "J\200K" (the current behavior). [...] Content analysis details: (2.0 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.214.66 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3) [209.85.214.66 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (npostavs[at]gmail.com) 1.0 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders Paul Eggert writes: > On 06/06/2017 10:17 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> What do you mean by "Emacs strings"? > > I meant that if I prefer hex to octal for buffer escapes, then when I > type this into *scratch*: > > (format "J%cK" ?\u0080) C-j > > I almost surely would prefer to see the result displayed as > hexadecimal than as "J\200K" (the current behavior). display-raw-bytes-as-hex does affect the result display for me (of course, since the result goes into the buffer), doesn't it for you? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 08 11:20:59 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jun 2017 15:20:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35264 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dIzF4-0000l1-TC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 11:20:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58782) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dIzF3-0000kn-7W for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 11:20:57 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dIzEt-0003w7-HM for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 11:20:51 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:56810) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dIzEp-0003tJ-N1; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 11:20:43 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1254 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1dIzEo-0003yu-Qa; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 11:20:43 -0400 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 18:20:41 +0300 Message-Id: <8337ba8q0m.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net In-reply-to: <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> (npostavs@users.sourceforge.net) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, v.schneidermann@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 21:07:25 -0400 > > > I meant that if I prefer hex to octal for buffer escapes, then when I > > type this into *scratch*: > > > > (format "J%cK" ?\u0080) C-j > > > > I almost surely would prefer to see the result displayed as > > hexadecimal than as "J\200K" (the current behavior). > > display-raw-bytes-as-hex does affect the result display for me (of > course, since the result goes into the buffer), doesn't it for you? Likewise here. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 08 11:56:45 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jun 2017 15:56:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35294 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dIznh-0001h8-2F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 11:56:45 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:57866) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dIzne-0001gs-Fj for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 11:56:43 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E6CD1600D1; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 08:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id YsExl9sP8sBM; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 08:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 752021600D2; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 08:56:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id ptyYQJNimpdr; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 08:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1A8E51600D1; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 08:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings To: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 08:56:31 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, Eli Zaretskii , 27270@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 06/07/2017 06:07 PM, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net wrote: > display-raw-bytes-as-hex does affect the result display for me (of > course, since the result goes into the buffer), doesn't it for you? Sorry, it didn't when I tried it earlier, but apparently I messed up.=20 Yes, it does affect the display. But this means the problem is even worse than I thought. If I evaluate=20 this in *scratch* in a terminal session running emacs -nw: (setq display-raw-bytes-as-hex t) C-j (format "%c%c" ?\u0090 ?5) C-j Emacs displays this: "\x905" which is the wrong string visually. And if I cut this string out of the=20 terminal window and paste it into another terminal window running Emacs,=20 I'll get "=E0=A4=85" (a string containing the single character U+0905 DEV= ANAGARI=20 LETTER A), which is indeed the wrong string. The string should be=20 displayed unambiguously, either like this: "\x80\ 5" or via some other means. The bottom line is that the visual display of buffers and strings should=20 continue to be unambiguous even when display-raw-bytes-as-hex is t. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 08 12:11:37 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jun 2017 16:11:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35302 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ025-00024q-FA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 12:11:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45421) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ023-00024b-3M for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 12:11:35 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ01x-0002x1-A0 for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 12:11:30 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:58633) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ01q-0002tv-Fg; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 12:11:22 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1308 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ01p-0000KT-IM; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 12:11:22 -0400 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 19:11:19 +0300 Message-Id: <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Thu, 8 Jun 2017 08:56:31 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, > v.schneidermann@gmail.com > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 08:56:31 -0700 > > (setq display-raw-bytes-as-hex t) C-j > (format "%c%c" ?\u0090 ?5) C-j > > Emacs displays this: > > "\x905" > > which is the wrong string visually. How is that different from "\2205" you get under the default settings? > The string should be > displayed unambiguously, either like this: > > "\x80\ 5" > > or via some other means. We do use "some other means": the raw byte has a different face. But if you evaluate the above in *scratch*, you won't see that because of font-lock. Turn off font-lock-mode, and you will clearly see where the raw byte ends and "normal" text begins. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 08 12:25:08 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jun 2017 16:25:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35314 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ0FA-0002Sm-2d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 12:25:08 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:34758) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ0F7-0002SA-3t for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 12:25:05 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F581600D1; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id o7_mGN84x_LT; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 954FB1600D2; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:24:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id kLDxw619fIG5; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2CABA1600D1; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings To: Eli Zaretskii References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:24:56 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 06/08/2017 09:11 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> (setq display-raw-bytes-as-hex t) C-j >> (format "%c%c" ?\u0090 ?5) C-j >> >> Emacs displays this: >> >> "\x905" >> >> which is the wrong string visually. > How is that different from "\2205" you get under the default settings? When I cut and paste "\2205" into another Emacs, it evaluates to the same two-character string that I started off with because octal escapes are limited to 3 octal digits. When I cut and paste "\x905" I get a one-character string because there is no limit to the length of hexadecimal escapes. This is a problem, because cut-and-paste should continue to copy text accurately even when I'm using terminal windows. >> The string should be >> displayed unambiguously, either like this: >> >> "\x80\ 5" >> >> or via some other means. > We do use "some other means": the raw byte has a different face. That doesn't help when --color=no is specified, or in terminal sessions that do not support colors. And the colors, even when present, do not survive cutting and pasting, which copies the text without colors. So this is a real problem. > But if you evaluate the above in*scratch*, you won't see that because of > font-lock. Turn off font-lock-mode, and you will clearly see where > the raw byte ends and "normal" text begins. Turning off font-lock-mode doesn't help when colors are disabled. I often run with colors disabled, since my terminal color scheme disagrees with Emacs's and I prefer monochrome anyway. So this ambiguity will be a real pain for me. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 08 15:00:25 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jun 2017 19:00:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35446 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ2fQ-0000d0-TO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:00:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59285) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ2fO-0000ci-O9 for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:00:22 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ2fI-0006YE-Nb for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:00:17 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:35983) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ2fC-0006VG-PG; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:00:10 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1486 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ2fB-0000q3-4Y; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:00:10 -0400 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 21:59:56 +0300 Message-Id: <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:24:56 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Cc: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, > v.schneidermann@gmail.com > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:24:56 -0700 > > >> "\x905" > >> > >> which is the wrong string visually. > > How is that different from "\2205" you get under the default settings? > > When I cut and paste "\2205" into another Emacs, it evaluates to the > same two-character string that I started off with because octal escapes > are limited to 3 octal digits. That's a different issue. You said "\x905" was wrong visually, so I asked how is that different, visually, from "\2205". > When I cut and paste "\x905" I get a > one-character string because there is no limit to the length of > hexadecimal escapes. This is a problem, because cut-and-paste should > continue to copy text accurately even when I'm using terminal windows. Same thing happens when you copy/paste from an Emacs window which uses a display table: the pasted string will be different from the original one. I believe I already pointed that out in this discussion. > >> "\x80\ 5" > >> > >> or via some other means. > > We do use "some other means": the raw byte has a different face. > > That doesn't help when --color=no is specified, or in terminal sessions > that do not support colors. In those cases, the octal notation has the same visual problems. > I prefer monochrome anyway. So this ambiguity will be a real pain > for me. I still don't understand how this is different from the octal notation, but if it is, you can always stay with the default octal display. That's what I do. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 08 15:43:48 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jun 2017 19:43:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35483 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ3LQ-0001rS-6E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:43:48 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:39802) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ3LN-0001r8-OE for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:43:46 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C733B1600D1; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 12:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id Vm06EqW-4YGY; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 12:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BCB51600C7; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 12:43:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 7J16-O9lBuk5; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 12:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A9D8A1600C4; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 12:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings To: Eli Zaretskii References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 12:43:38 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 06/08/2017 11:59 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > That's a different issue. You said "\x905" was wrong visually, so I > asked how is that different, visually, from "\2205". It's wrong visually, because I know the syntax for strings in Emacs Lisp, and I know that "\x905" is supposed to be a 1-character string whereas "\2205" is a two-character string. > Same thing happens when you copy/paste from an Emacs window which uses > a display table The difference is that I don't use display tables and don't want to use them. In contrast, I would like to use hexadecimal display, if it worked as well as octal does (which it does not). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 08 15:56:44 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jun 2017 19:56:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35488 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ3Xw-0002Dk-CI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:56:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45209) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ3Xu-0002DV-8l for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:56:42 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ3Xo-0007eG-74 for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:56:37 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:36937) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ3Xg-0007dX-Tr; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:56:28 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1564 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ3Xf-0001kD-Go; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:56:28 -0400 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 22:56:21 +0300 Message-Id: <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: (message from Paul Eggert on Thu, 8 Jun 2017 12:43:38 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Cc: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, > v.schneidermann@gmail.com > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 12:43:38 -0700 > > On 06/08/2017 11:59 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > That's a different issue. You said "\x905" was wrong visually, so I > > asked how is that different, visually, from "\2205". > > It's wrong visually, because I know the syntax for strings in Emacs > Lisp, and I know that "\x905" is supposed to be a 1-character string > whereas "\2205" is a two-character string. How do you know "\2205" is a two character string? What about this: (aset printable-chars #x3fffc nil) C-j (format "%c%c" #x3fffc ?5) C-j Where does the octal codepoint end now? > > Same thing happens when you copy/paste from an Emacs window which uses > > a display table > > The difference is that I don't use display tables and don't want to use > them. In contrast, I would like to use hexadecimal display, if it worked > as well as octal does (which it does not). Then we need to code a separate feature in the Lisp reader, I think. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 08 16:35:55 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jun 2017 20:35:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35523 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ49r-0003Lm-Ac for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 16:35:55 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:49100) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ49p-0003LW-QR for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 16:35:54 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 429271600D3; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id r66o9QNdkifw; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 879FC1600D5; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:35:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id h-FQ4-zgzeEJ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 160E11600D3; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings To: Eli Zaretskii References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:35:45 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 06/08/2017 12:56 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > How do you know "\2205" is a two character string Because I use Emacs out of the box, with the default printable-chars. > >> The difference is that I don't use display tables and don't want to use >> them. In contrast, I would like to use hexadecimal display, if it worked >> as well as octal does (which it does not). > Then we need to code a separate feature in the Lisp reader, I think. What do you think of using capital X for hexadecimal escapes with at most two digits? That way, "\X905" would be a two-character string, which is what is wanted here. Or we could use small h for hexadecimal, and "\h905". If we were feeling ambitous and concise, we could use no character at all and upper-case hex digits for bytes in the range 0x80 through 0xFF; this would be unambiguous in strings (the example would be "\905"). This may be a bridge too far, though. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 09 02:00:44 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2017 06:00:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35743 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJCyS-0007xN-Bd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 02:00:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35096) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJCyR-0007xB-66 for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 02:00:43 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJCyK-00021o-Ry for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 02:00:37 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:34616) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJCyC-0001vz-B6; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 02:00:28 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1824 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1dJCyB-00022H-8t; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 02:00:27 -0400 Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2017 09:00:26 +0300 Message-Id: <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: (message from Paul Eggert on Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:35:45 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Cc: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, > v.schneidermann@gmail.com > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:35:45 -0700 > > On 06/08/2017 12:56 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > How do you know "\2205" is a two character string > > Because I use Emacs out of the box, with the default printable-chars. That's just sheer luck, then, not a general solution that works for everybody. And it's not unimaginable that we will mark more codepoints printable at some point, given some development in the Unicode standard or in Emacs. > >> The difference is that I don't use display tables and don't want to use > >> them. In contrast, I would like to use hexadecimal display, if it worked > >> as well as octal does (which it does not). > > Then we need to code a separate feature in the Lisp reader, I think. > > What do you think of using capital X for hexadecimal escapes with at > most two digits? That way, "\X905" would be a two-character string, > which is what is wanted here. Or we could use small h for hexadecimal, > and "\h905". I'm okay, but I'm not sure I understand how does this fix your problem. Can you explain? > If we were feeling ambitous and concise, we could use no character at > all and upper-case hex digits for bytes in the range 0x80 through 0xFF; > this would be unambiguous in strings (the example would be "\905"). This > may be a bridge too far, though. Too far, I agree. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 09 19:44:59 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2017 23:44:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37558 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJTaN-0004mB-LS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 19:44:59 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:47420) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJTaL-0004ly-C6 for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 19:44:58 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BAC81600D3; Fri, 9 Jun 2017 16:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id LBEBtaPFLjii; Fri, 9 Jun 2017 16:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C28D61600E7; Fri, 9 Jun 2017 16:44:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id hW1K-v7XVH2w; Fri, 9 Jun 2017 16:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.153.184.153]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9D0CF1600D3; Fri, 9 Jun 2017 16:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings To: Eli Zaretskii References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 16:44:46 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> What do you think of using capital X for hexadecimal escapes with at >> most two digits? That way, "\X905" would be a two-character string, >> which is what is wanted here. Or we could use small h for hexadecimal, >> and "\h905". > I'm okay, but I'm not sure I understand how does this fix your > problem. Can you explain? >=20 The idea is to add a new \X escape for character constants and strings. T= his=20 escape would allow at most two hexadecimal digits, rather than the unlimi= ted=20 number of digits that \x does. For example, the Lisp string "\XABC" would= be=20 equivalent to the Lisp string "\xAB\ C", that is, it would be a two-chara= cter=20 string containing the character U+00AB LEFT POINTING GUILLEMET followed b= y the=20 character U+0043 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C. Also, display-raw-bytes-as-hex would cause raw bytes to be displayed with= this=20 new X escape, rather than with with the x escape. This would fix my problem, since I would continue to be able to copy text= =20 displayed in a terminal window, and paste it into an Emacs string, and ge= t the=20 text unaltered even if display-raw-bytes-as-hex is t. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 10 03:24:57 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jun 2017 07:24:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37726 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJalV-0000KF-8f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 03:24:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57275) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJalT-0000K3-QL for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 03:24:56 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJalN-00029O-LL for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 03:24:50 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:43164) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJalH-00024p-Go; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 03:24:43 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4111 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1dJalG-0007NG-7z; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 03:24:42 -0400 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 10:24:25 +0300 Message-Id: <83h8zo71au.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Fri, 9 Jun 2017 16:44:46 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Cc: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, > v.schneidermann@gmail.com > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 16:44:46 -0700 > > The idea is to add a new \X escape for character constants and strings. This > escape would allow at most two hexadecimal digits, rather than the unlimited > number of digits that \x does. For example, the Lisp string "\XABC" would be > equivalent to the Lisp string "\xAB\ C", that is, it would be a two-character > string containing the character U+00AB LEFT POINTING GUILLEMET followed by the > character U+0043 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C. So your proposal would mean a change to the Lisp reader to support such escapes, right? If so, isn't such a change backward-incompatible? > Also, display-raw-bytes-as-hex would cause raw bytes to be displayed with this > new X escape, rather than with with the x escape. It could only do that for codepoints below 256 decimal, so that limitation should be taken into account when deciding on the proposal. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 10 18:51:02 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jun 2017 22:51:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39456 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJpDh-00078y-V4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 18:51:02 -0400 Received: from mail-io0-f196.google.com ([209.85.223.196]:34431) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJpDf-00078Y-Ol; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 18:51:00 -0400 Received: by mail-io0-f196.google.com with SMTP id a96so7822986ioj.1; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 15:50:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=aYakdjX7jHC0XPWmS5P0s51wSX8AqAEzjg5pIOA3Faw=; b=r2KyFvEiQIDX7agkywCXHI0hfmuhBf+e98RyNT+54YoTpYU502fYbFouXQStn8iNfP ywfqe4n/0kPokt+9awV/yPXS8ZuqYI0JK46EUELdfgbl2SWG5fOsvbV7KZDTgXoLiPCu Zi8ISO6vjjj27TZcGaZ0n+z//8H5Joqv5ll4VGRra6MVpLPYEBMDTfNgefjvwDa0mPW+ 7RLIeuXSwg+3r0alb87mcGNHggFQZIFa0Cg34s4CBorWgtLjdtC50r8lO7LvaZGxR5B9 ED4Wry8/2M6tIpoI4OC7SG0qiQuuuVXHQCpp+1N0PCtrggFN1d92/DUDbuZUzAnelqfV LtPA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=aYakdjX7jHC0XPWmS5P0s51wSX8AqAEzjg5pIOA3Faw=; b=W0F7I92VmymYWyP6EQeMsGE32D3bKKOc2bGyfpagyRO72EaiD5yl7bRq0gK9jTM/c8 +oNj2AEZpETWwUsZS7p+AmvsXxrbdgAVfx+oZz40jE3Acn2JJd+F8SfWXC4kFuH7lK/e Q8UNOJFTN+mj1wOHnIyFMv6iFzygwo1APYnQWuspHDctOEtpFdPV9egDiPyhQtsCp6d2 oG3lyuI63tdY9kYZ23CxYWeAM53LWhFEioWYZ2QRzGCwAO8/nRbkedoLSvcHrb7mep6J Qx3J9iZuQ8s+kGu1+DyA90IxU3ZARNTAdxaKYlZ8M6pGNzOd6f6L+ZRJuBc9FjN/Edxj LbvA== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDQcZBX9r8kOfIyrHuH46zCkNfmICz4tfdd9GfQYHThV5jb5r+i JFaLDJzlWcnK2Nyv X-Received: by 10.107.8.84 with SMTP id 81mr43707181ioi.197.1497135053976; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 15:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zony ([45.2.7.65]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id k79sm1863008itk.26.2017.06.10.15.50.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sat, 10 Jun 2017 15:50:52 -0700 (PDT) From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 18:52:31 -0400 In-Reply-To: <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 8 Jun 2017 08:56:31 -0700") Message-ID: <87zidfv4k0.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, Eli Zaretskii , 27270@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) severity 27270 wishlist quit Paul Eggert writes: > But this means the problem is even worse than I thought. If I evaluate > this in *scratch* in a terminal session running emacs -nw: > > (setq display-raw-bytes-as-hex t) C-j > (format "%c%c" ?\u0090 ?5) C-j I wonder what you do about low bytes, as in (format "^G%c" ?\a). Do those just not come up very much? It's too bad there's no copying counterpart to bracketed paste mode... From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 10 20:04:52 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jun 2017 00:04:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39526 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJqN8-0002Bo-SY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 20:04:51 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:50440) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJqN6-0002Bb-AB for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 20:04:48 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F39D1600D3; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:04:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 4oaeEnlHnijp; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3B091600E7; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:04:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id If152uwKjmCU; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 52F661600D3; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings To: Eli Zaretskii References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <83h8zo71au.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:04:40 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83h8zo71au.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 06/10/2017 12:24 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > So your proposal would mean a change to the Lisp reader to support > such escapes, right? If so, isn't such a change > backward-incompatible? Yes, but only in the sense that undocumented escapes evaluate to themselves, e.g., "\F" is currently the same as "F" in Emacs Lisp because there is no escape sequence \F currently defined for character constants. But there's nothing new here, e.g., when we added "\N{...}" last year we changed the interpretation of the formerly-undocumented \N escape. >> Also, display-raw-bytes-as-hex would cause raw bytes to be displayed with this >> new X escape, rather than with with the x escape. > It could only do that for codepoints below 256 decimal, so that > limitation should be taken into account when deciding on the proposal. Ouch, I hadn't thought of that. Wait -- doesn't that mean that "display-raw-bytes-as-hex" is a misleading name, because it affects the display not only of raw bytes, but of other undisplayable characters? Shouldn't we change its name to something more generic and more accurate, like "display-characters-as-hex"? Anyway, to address the point you raised: how about a different idea? We extend the existing \x syntax in strings so that \x{dddd} has the same meaning as "\xdddd", except that the "}" terminates the escape. This syntax is used by Perl and so is in the same family as \N{...}. We also change display-raw-bytes-as-hex to use this new syntax when a character is immediately followed by a hexadecimal digit. That way, most characters are displayed as before, but my problematic example is displayed as "x\x{90}5y", which is a good visual cue of the unusual situation. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 10 20:10:46 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jun 2017 00:10:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39531 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJqSs-0002Jm-GX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 20:10:46 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:50980) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJqSr-0002JZ-Ej for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 20:10:45 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D361600E7; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id C3-qM25CbQIR; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CA981600E8; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:10:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id J5AKlzVAupdu; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D59131600E7; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings To: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <87zidfv4k0.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <7481f25a-7f94-afd2-cb66-b14ef5a82153@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:10:38 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87zidfv4k0.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, Eli Zaretskii , 27270@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 06/10/2017 03:52 PM, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net wrote: > I wonder what you do about low bytes, as in (format "^G%c" ?\a). Do > those just not come up very much? They didn't in my examples. :-) But yes, they do happen, it's just that when they mess things up it tends to be more obvious. It might be nice, I suppose, if there were an option to make them not happen. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 11 10:48:34 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jun 2017 14:48:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41242 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dK4AM-0000zV-C6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:48:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36049) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dK4AK-0000zI-8T for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:48:32 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dK4AE-0000VA-6m for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:48:27 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:54171) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dK4A6-0000RA-LT; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:48:18 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2172 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1dK4A5-0002aF-PK; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:48:18 -0400 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 17:48:04 +0300 Message-Id: <83r2yq60nv.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: (message from Paul Eggert on Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:04:40 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <83h8zo71au.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Cc: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, > v.schneidermann@gmail.com > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:04:40 -0700 > > On 06/10/2017 12:24 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > So your proposal would mean a change to the Lisp reader to support > > such escapes, right? If so, isn't such a change > > backward-incompatible? > > Yes, but only in the sense that undocumented escapes evaluate to > themselves, e.g., "\F" is currently the same as "F" in Emacs Lisp > because there is no escape sequence \F currently defined for character > constants. But there's nothing new here, e.g., when we added "\N{...}" > last year we changed the interpretation of the formerly-undocumented \N > escape. Then maybe the new hex display should use the \N{U+nnn} format? > >> Also, display-raw-bytes-as-hex would cause raw bytes to be displayed with this > >> new X escape, rather than with with the x escape. > > It could only do that for codepoints below 256 decimal, so that > > limitation should be taken into account when deciding on the proposal. > > Ouch, I hadn't thought of that. > > Wait -- doesn't that mean that "display-raw-bytes-as-hex" is a > misleading name, because it affects the display not only of raw bytes, > but of other undisplayable characters? That's true, but since the chances of a _user_ changing the printable-chars char-table are pretty slim, I didn't think it was justified to obfuscate the name. > Shouldn't we change its name to > something more generic and more accurate, like "display-characters-as-hex"? Codepoints whose printable-chars entry is nil cannot in good faith be called "characters", IMO. "Codepoints", maybe? But again, that makes the discoverability harder, so I'm not sure it's worth the hassle. > Anyway, to address the point you raised: how about a different idea? We > extend the existing \x syntax in strings so that \x{dddd} has the same > meaning as "\xdddd", except that the "}" terminates the escape. This > syntax is used by Perl and so is in the same family as \N{...}. We also > change display-raw-bytes-as-hex to use this new syntax when a character > is immediately followed by a hexadecimal digit. That way, most > characters are displayed as before, but my problematic example is > displayed as "x\x{90}5y", which is a good visual cue of the unusual > situation. See above: why not \N{U+...}? The only downside is that it's much longer than \xNN. Could be another option, perhaps. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 11 13:26:41 2017 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jun 2017 17:26:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41370 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dK6dM-0004YW-Vn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 13:26:41 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:48292) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dK6dL-0004YH-CT for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 13:26:40 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6774C160079; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id S0kWxb8Duxcu; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1FCA1600E8; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:26:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id bQh0RmjjGJ57; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.153.184.153]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8DC0E160079; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings To: Eli Zaretskii References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <83h8zo71au.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yq60nv.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:26:28 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83r2yq60nv.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Then maybe the new hex display should use the \N{U+nnn} format? If we're going to do that, we might as well use \unnnn, which is shorter. A downside of either syntax, though, is the implication that the raw byte is intended to be Unicode, which it typically is not. That is partly why I was thinking \x{nn} would be better: it'd be clearer to users. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 02 09:25:57 2017 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2017 13:25:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41876 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1do8Qv-0004f2-Cq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Sep 2017 09:25:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45009) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1do8Qt-0004ep-Kl for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Sep 2017 09:25:56 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1do8Qj-0005ju-Ta for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Sep 2017 09:25:50 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:49375) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1do8Qj-0005jg-KA; Sat, 02 Sep 2017 09:25:45 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2162 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1do8Qi-0001zj-IA; Sat, 02 Sep 2017 09:25:45 -0400 Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2017 16:25:33 +0300 Message-Id: <83efrpz0z6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: (message from Paul Eggert on Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:26:28 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <83h8zo71au.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yq60nv.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control Cc: 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, v.schneidermann@gmail.com, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) unblock 24655 by 27270 thanks > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:26:28 -0700 > Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, > npostavs@users.sourceforge.net > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Then maybe the new hex display should use the \N{U+nnn} format? > > If we're going to do that, we might as well use \unnnn, which is shorter. A > downside of either syntax, though, is the implication that the raw byte is > intended to be Unicode, which it typically is not. That is partly why I was > thinking \x{nn} would be better: it'd be clearer to users. In any case, since this is a "wishlist" bug report, I don't think it should block the release of Emacs 26.1 (or any other version). Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 23 10:00:45 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2022 14:00:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56808 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niGJY-0004UC-Qz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2022 10:00:45 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:48568) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niGJW-0004Lh-Ex for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2022 10:00:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=y+6babXk/TYqKQKuSsqSrf/eCwqD8idcdBelgrXNuf4=; b=ZQwTGgfeh4PTaHiOw759TZ/Hfh x0KTZptnT1MMwSymwqm9RUcyJx3I2LNZ6spku/dXzeIrygrG4K1MU9cb1gZQUBCi4OXfk7+XbX2K6 XmBgF2Nl8zGMpK2atVzlS/kP6PxcdIJNsI/07xzjpiLkzUIVmmkGitLDE0Ad0OFhGwE4=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1niGJL-0003Vx-Qg; Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:00:34 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> X-Now-Playing: The Style Council's _The Complete Adventures (5)_: "Sure Is Sure" Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:00:31 +0200 In-Reply-To: <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Fri, 9 Jun 2017 16:44:46 -0700") Message-ID: <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Paul Eggert writes: > The idea is to add a new \X escape for character constants and > strings. This escape would allow at most two hexadecimal digits, > rather than the unlimited number of digits that \x does. For examp [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Paul Eggert writes: > The idea is to add a new \X escape for character constants and > strings. This escape would allow at most two hexadecimal digits, > rather than the unlimited number of digits that \x does. For example, > the Lisp string "\XABC" would be equivalent to the Lisp string "\xAB\ > C", that is, it would be a two-character string containing the > character U+00AB LEFT POINTING GUILLEMET followed by the character > U+0043 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C. 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QCjkEEIIMRAKOYQQQgyEQg4hhBADoZBDCCHEQCjkEEIIMRAKOYQQQgyEQg4hhBADoZBDCCHEQCjk EEIIMRAKOYQQQgyEQg4hhBADoZBDCCHEQCjkEEIIMRAKOYQQQgyEQg4hhBAD+R8G+1U7J/2QKQAA AABJRU5ErkJggg== --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even in *scratch*, where font-locking overrode those, I think? The issue still remains -- if you do this in emacs -nw: (format "%c5" 128) "=C2=805" And cut and paste that do a different Emacs, you get the string "\x805" =3D> "=E0=A0=85" But... we've had this format for half a decade now, and this doesn't really seem to be a problem in practice, so while the format is somewhat ambiguous, I tend to think that introducing a new syntax just to fix it isn't worth it. Especially a syntax like \x{80}, which was one of the suggestions -- the idea, after all, is to make display prettier and more readable. Any further opinions? --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 23 10:00:48 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2022 14:00:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56811 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niGJc-0004XT-BS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2022 10:00:48 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:48584) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niGJa-0004Q1-4a for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2022 10:00:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Xzto32my70K1JFlhqOBSTIbGUYuZNuk+GFNJ46OkCRQ=; b=UXg7Dvor0/P9b/dUh4W8I4o8Ms TtK/rh4bkjK21BZd7I8LnqzTi7wLkrliO18TTOSekTRVlj2qoo13DZXQVi8Bn5oYlS8Qhk2wIkADH eIVJgUcjR9uMGvgGjN4SC0Wp+D4NEgw/7msRgCKvyuVxwhSogodBXw3OPFtNfLFZvapQ=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1niGJS-0003WJ-EL for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:00:40 +0200 Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:00:37 +0200 Message-Id: <87ilqzsxve.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #27270 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 27270 + moreinfo quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 27270 + moreinfo quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 03:10:54 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2022 07:10:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57569 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niWOU-0005kf-HY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 03:10:54 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:50402) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niWOR-0005kO-CT for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 03:10:53 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E815716009A; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 00:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id OUxZj7qBx8qk; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 00:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 380AB1600C5; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 00:10:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 8eQeTYZK6w-q; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 00:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ED60316009A; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 00:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 00:10:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.7.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings In-Reply-To: <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 4/23/22 07:00, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > we've had this format for half a decade now, and this doesn't > really seem to be a problem in practice Not surprising, since most people don't set display-raw-bytes-as-hex. But that doesn't mean it's not a problem. Quoting bugs can be issues even if they're unlikely to occur at random. (Think SQL injection. :-) > I tend to think that introducing a new syntax just to fix it > isn't worth it. That's fine, so let's fix the problem as originally suggested. That is, display the string returned by (format "%c%c" #x9e #x66) as "\x9e\x66" (equivalent to (concat "\x9e" "\x66") which is correct) instead of as "\x9ef" (equivalent to "\N{BENGALI DIGIT NINE}" which is wrong). This fixes the problem and doesn't introduce new syntax. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 05:56:24 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2022 09:56:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57624 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niYye-0001XY-6v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 05:56:24 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-f52.google.com ([209.85.167.52]:34451) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niYyc-0001XI-ET for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 05:56:23 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-f52.google.com with SMTP id x33so21468965lfu.1 for <27270@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 02:56:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=OCFlW6Hx9nGiAvX9sA5BkdbrQdnHK8fVUeraK+WpbFw=; b=UOrTuz/EmssoXK9TIkB1CFtWMPwHvchj3W2lIhx79wZWIcDTpOSK7NTv3UC24O4WH2 dbYLrJfEWjajCcu3YgnMWydiiZomWgMUrHEKYoRc91hrEDZ8mQKRDEZVzns7EycCv6MY R7/iBEp7SsKmfsZ6x06vc0rmftiTUA3hiZzGld7NM10OIxRzUx9NdjV2EFwZdYEi5wuU GbyzQ++6gJxhrJGeIyOBC+qiI8TC9hCqpGgViinKKzdQ9eP+gYtzr/rOBzA/iOaExxTu Z37V42WWkIEIRjyoTsZHHUTxbgdf9aaAes3Zc40vYWJ8B4STSPPCaCVRrHLDR7i7tRNA r41A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=OCFlW6Hx9nGiAvX9sA5BkdbrQdnHK8fVUeraK+WpbFw=; b=pcYRa8Ke8UrhXI4zNSPR6okL/DhsC0KbY3RAFpwKwjk2v2d40lswEG+/3vd4GrhZXz WmFNbPBmhspXYwjcgoRUXkSnI1tpgx2N+AhAgl0MEybNc2RX4PljlUlCq7fchPyqwNQ6 irXwwqq357KnMhAIFClnDVmWdNlYiLMAXTCDvt3R5DsOEPfPxFa9sRJHSRQxNUXxuhyg b6p70zBiCUzDVKM12bf4g4mWqhgwCWs9rrf8cH8b5n4GX3bn1mxIdFHI5OFQc8Ps+y8Q IuO/Kp+fH17o/iTCSY8ZLvJXrI4drReLuuHfN8UXb5RUiEiAR56/acK6JbOr1UyKGc// hE6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531x9Ubl+6q9xx0XyXqrkIriOX8P1kyta8Sx3Ia8S/EVoA+X11IC 3KymziKmpC43iHlZytiPW/3wqgDBjVadcKl3bdg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzBgUec8z6JUgyh+9DgyeqO1ioKLVYhggPN9jQQ9VX84iJzNsPJw+zdOY+nG65VBwNljTj443GHvtmG0/13+Kk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:118b:b0:46b:a9ae:3a3b with SMTP id g11-20020a056512118b00b0046ba9ae3a3bmr9461858lfr.188.1650794176033; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 02:56:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: From: Vasilij Schneidermann Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 11:56:04 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings To: Paul Eggert Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > > I tend to think that introducing a new syntax just to fix it > > isn't worth it. > > That's fine, so let's fix the problem as originally suggested. That is, > display the string returned by (format "%c%c" #x9e #x66) as "\x9e\x66" > (equivalent to (concat "\x9e" "\x66") which is correct) instead of as > "\x9ef" (equivalent to "\N{BENGALI DIGIT NINE}" which is wrong). > > This fixes the problem and doesn't introduce new syntax. Wait, hold up. Under which conditions exactly does the bug happen? If I use GUI Emacs, thanks to font-lock it's pretty obvious that the output is three bytes, the first one displayed using the hex escape syntax and the remaining two bytes using hex letters. If I copy-paste those into another GUI Emacs, it's still the same three bytes. I don't know about terminal Emacs, but trying to work around terminals being bad doesn't seem worth the extra effort. Besides, suppose it is worth it, what exactly should the logic be here? Detect if there's a preceding hex escaped byte and if yes, display adjacent bytes that are formatted using hex characters using escaping, too? That seems too involved for something run in redisplay. The other proposed alternative of tightening up read syntax seems incompatible, but saner to me overall. Emacs Lisp is the odd one out here anyway. Only C and C++ consider such sequences as potentially having a greater length than 2 and they error out with a compilation error for me. len("\x1234") # Python, Go: 3 "\x1234".length # Ruby, JavaScript: 3 length("\x1234") # Perl: 3 (string-length "\x1234") ; Guile, Racket, CHICKEN: 3 ;; Common Lisp absent because it lacks a lot of string escapes and ;; using FORMAT neatly sidesteps these issues ;; Clojure only has octal/unicode string escapes (count (seq "\u12345678")) ; Clojure: 5 (length "\x1234") ; Emacs Lisp: 1 strlen("\x1234") /* C: compilation error */ std::string("\x1234").length() // C++: compilation error "\x1234".len() // Rust: 3 Before deciding on such a change, there should be efforts to figure out whether anything could actually break due to this. That is, code with long hex escapes in strings, be it manually authored (unlikely, people either use raw bytes in strings or unicode escapes) or automatically generated (cannot comment on that, maybe the byte-code compiler emits such code?). If not, then it would be an obvious candidate for the next major release of Emacs. On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 9:10 AM Paul Eggert wrote: > > On 4/23/22 07:00, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > > we've had this format for half a decade now, and this doesn't > > really seem to be a problem in practice > > Not surprising, since most people don't set display-raw-bytes-as-hex. > But that doesn't mean it's not a problem. Quoting bugs can be issues > even if they're unlikely to occur at random. (Think SQL injection. :-) > > > > I tend to think that introducing a new syntax just to fix it > > isn't worth it. > > That's fine, so let's fix the problem as originally suggested. That is, > display the string returned by (format "%c%c" #x9e #x66) as "\x9e\x66" > (equivalent to (concat "\x9e" "\x66") which is correct) instead of as > "\x9ef" (equivalent to "\N{BENGALI DIGIT NINE}" which is wrong). > > This fixes the problem and doesn't introduce new syntax. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 06:26:51 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2022 10:26:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57656 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niZS7-0002R8-HC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:26:51 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:48004) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niZS5-0002Qx-Gc for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:26:50 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4KmPT40GSWz1r0PY; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 12:26:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4KmPT31m9Fz1qqkB; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 12:26:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l4JXg3egkwyp; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 12:26:46 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: nb8Cpm+SthrvBiqwcTSUEvrNNa35zgXaQaCYrTsAAoSN0JfaNecNLA/py5My6g+Y Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-190-102.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.190.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 12:26:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 845D22C36EA; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 12:26:45 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Vasilij Schneidermann Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> X-Yow: The SAME WAVE keeps coming in and COLLAPSING like a rayon MUU-MUU.. Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 12:26:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Vasilij Schneidermann's message of "Sun, 24 Apr 2022 11:56:04 +0200") Message-ID: <87sfq293q2.fsf@igel.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Paul Eggert , 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On Apr 24 2022, Vasilij Schneidermann wrote: > strlen("\x1234") /* C: compilation error */ You need to use a wide string: wslen(L"\x1234") > std::string("\x1234").length() // C++: compilation error Likewise: std::wstring(L"\x1234").length() -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 06:52:19 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2022 10:52:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57669 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niZqk-0003Va-FY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:52:19 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-f51.google.com ([209.85.167.51]:43967) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niZqi-0003UW-0W for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:52:16 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-f51.google.com with SMTP id x17so21565683lfa.10 for <27270@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 03:52:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KtHJEhhETl00M+xtb5Gi7BvzN4Of1iAv+dSXcwWQ/LE=; b=SjHZjt3B+2MPfnnPYuUJ1/ygFrqAKO5X6CoiqfbF8AfOhKqIcDIfdHmW+7XnTmDUJm dBAGUqZZAOAH1rQroUrPpLfwpSYQduotp0coqDJHJMcOJ3TqrxcBnuidSOrJzqsExNDs W21Eur3OiRyJmvM8bQGIIglyTw7MzETHoJza7Tg9UdEmL2/haDUGkAUbAAvN616DUlp6 tdu42zInQ1Xwh484aZkDuuVUQKeAfbUGsqx8cOOs/KErM3+IUMf95kXtBumamc26Kgb9 21ai5ft5Wzo1lzMYw/qbcbpzj/JhIYCVUcmALr16Het5/W6jpzm1Ll4uSvXMr1ZA34fK QXaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KtHJEhhETl00M+xtb5Gi7BvzN4Of1iAv+dSXcwWQ/LE=; b=jZHlfCpfzBqqRAKDX1PZ6fZ7bkJOhaPsbkdjFDVeCobrtCQX8dNlGUzXpplgR/q3OM Vg2Knh0RwYXiMh8Awg0nkk3CGnpUw8pzwzNZu81f9aufnyUgV9MHPEfNA4t7JFK4lWEc XTTDzVOZkqCiWzfxU40ig4JfmjpVrLAQxRq51vVNbim31C6KFoIC6ImsWw9o6Rwve+Qy UI4fFcvXPSOmc+XJ+HZAxL92Rg76ktXCfQySvF/VauM/i7ruGShPhIi4qFemjNsz7YnA kCRTbmQ8HGLT8D+okXjcx0k8UYdVdGeh/vqArz1HHCMLOeS9YLG5RMlMUdhtToSjPZvp NxIA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533O8VuWA9tXfAwIvQIAgbW19SZiclnWE+Q6VAWrhLnkgyNFFd3k L8DAML+eFO9sZn3d2BlQI6Gf8m/Yk2+sHm1iODI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw0SW81AdqjfkTl9r2eCF1RgCdunzVzqQ7x2ZEnP3yT0S8BiWzGk+BlI7KR+ZmPDqRcEfQ0axYghi6uYdd4usU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:118b:b0:46b:a9ae:3a3b with SMTP id g11-20020a056512118b00b0046ba9ae3a3bmr9588931lfr.188.1650797529868; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 03:52:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfq293q2.fsf@igel.home> In-Reply-To: <87sfq293q2.fsf@igel.home> From: Vasilij Schneidermann Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 12:51:58 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings To: Andreas Schwab Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Paul Eggert , 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > You need to use a wide string: > > wslen(L"\x1234") > > > std::string("\x1234").length() // C++: compilation error > > Likewise: > > std::wstring(L"\x1234").length() Thank you for pointing this out. This gives us three camps: - Languages where "\x1234" is always one character (Emacs Lisp) - Languages where "\x1234" is an error, but may become one character when opting into this with wide literals (C, C++) - Languages where "\x1234" is always multiple characters (everything else under the sun) I propose Emacs Lisp to move into camp 3 (not really a point in moving to camp two as it requires new syntax for a hardly used feature). As evident by the bug report, this is a footgun waiting to happen. We already do have syntax in case one truly wants to specify a value greater than #xFF using Unicode names/values. This would require an amendment in `(info "(elisp) General Escape Syntax")`, point 3. Like with oldstyle backquotes, a warning could be emitted if greater hex values are used in a string. I've checked Emacs sources for usage of such hex escapes and only found org-entities.el to represent non-breaking space (nbsp) this way, so breakage should be limited. If there is interest, I could extend the survey to include whether character syntax is/should be affected the same way and/or include more languages. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 07:01:17 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2022 11:01:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57678 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niZzQ-0004cC-N6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:01:16 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:43331) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niZzP-0004bd-2C for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:01:15 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4KmQDh4Svnz1qyJN; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:01:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4KmQDh1x9Yz1qqkB; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:01:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FFsi71ZlvcKT; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:01:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: 86IFmNaH5Y9jdjKhSYtv6YkuqiMEo20fRazCnwZzs+sxzm29YCMYWLuO9Btwke+C Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-190-102.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.190.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:01:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A3EC32C36EA; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:01:01 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Vasilij Schneidermann Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfq293q2.fsf@igel.home> X-Yow: Put FIVE DOZEN red GIRDLES in each CIRCULAR OPENING!! Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:01:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Vasilij Schneidermann's message of "Sun, 24 Apr 2022 12:51:58 +0200") Message-ID: <87o80q924y.fsf@igel.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Paul Eggert , 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On Apr 24 2022, Vasilij Schneidermann wrote: > I propose Emacs Lisp to move into camp 3 This will break every use of \x in Emacs. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 07:25:07 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2022 11:25:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57710 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niaMU-00065f-UR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:25:07 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:39158) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niaMS-000656-MK for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:25:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=OHTSX4fdaAQSIRhbmrnwemWXzyZICmpV3CpC2RwmouU=; b=NsdGpdUaAykiE1jZlGs7Rb3m0D jL1175/pRDh4mBEgTFJC1cyYlNn2OOKF/oHI8vySRGdvwWqv5dPquRB8AbW8NnRzzlqPADE3P5frv fWHOcNomxvbpKUtwG3IccfFABysNSui7Cwfwk263nWeCa0/mS7VaVQOJ3aWQ+1XKUE74=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1niaMJ-000557-4c; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:24:57 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEX9HqDhVq/m3C6r ytyWfar////NQ8kVAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YEGAsSJVNBwPoAAAGpSURBVDjLlVQB buQwCIRsH4A3fUBN/YBNfQ9ovfz/TWWwY6c96aSzlAgzHgaICRER079XSkm6MT14Md4BsApLHMRu E1ZfcGwqt8dJYrqrnogO1QMxhr8je/glBX0uANBgWKRarKUE4G1E3zReZi27cbegUB4pmpkCSI4H pRdE2JpmeoXRKVixtdY03K0n1o8jEtxuaJnybjuAx/5os7SdsV6tNLgRSt8fnv8JwGPF1fW91oqa eqwXnC+gpd2Bh3dtAFD1uj88mVuth1ebB8PTKs/68O9AiHUFmj2rbOUTlKn+4vm4ip8sX8S1Cg2A I1k9/gZc3LU9m2JESGuGQjeeDthPgKOD2LdfgIvn3fN34PMKeBffKAAzuYpHQch/a0VuVwAFhYOL M1eBaCfyx/Xia68CQJMc2aG9zRukoT6WzLZTWDz8B87JvHNKJ0VoW/eHcYZPwn1qg5wjo8hs3d6I FSMky56x8g+TZcY6+d3ajxUrODwmJ8SCtwYKhLzHcGJEefpzTGdfch3C9T+QPry8/DyAtI0/heYw dub4BLLTbZUUBD5Og/5jfQPXSF28tdPdbgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wNC0yNFQx MToxODozNyswMDowMBJB4HoAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDQtMjRUMTE6MTg6Mzcr MDA6MDBjHFjGAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Amon =?utf-8?Q?D=C3=BCl?= II's _Deutsche Elektronische Music 4 (1)_: "Wolf City" Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:24:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Paul Eggert's message of "Sun, 24 Apr 2022 00:10:44 -0700") Message-ID: <87sfq2d8qi.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Paul Eggert writes: > Not surprising, since most people don't set > display-raw-bytes-as-hex. But that doesn't mean it's not a > problem. Quoting bugs can be issues even if they're unlikely to occur > at random. (Think S [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Paul Eggert writes: > Not surprising, since most people don't set > display-raw-bytes-as-hex. But that doesn't mean it's not a > problem. Quoting bugs can be issues even if they're unlikely to occur > at random. (Think SQL injection. :-) I don't think we're talking quite the same magnitude -- this is a problem if you're cutting strings from a -nw Emacs and pasting into a different Emacs and then using the Lisp reader to read it back. And then there's a raw byte in the string. The likelihood of anybody actually encountering this issue is ... small. >> I tend to think that introducing a new syntax just to fix it >> isn't worth it. > > That's fine, so let's fix the problem as originally suggested. That > is, display the string returned by (format "%c%c" #x9e #x66) as > "\x9e\x66" (equivalent to (concat "\x9e" "\x66") which is correct) > instead of as "\x9ef" (equivalent to "\N{BENGALI DIGIT NINE}" which is > wrong). > > This fixes the problem and doesn't introduce new syntax. You want to quote all %c as if they were raw bytes? Or only following a raw byte? And what about (format "%cf" #x9e) which was the originally reported issue? In any case, this would definitely be a regression, because it creates very confusing displayed strings. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 07:29:21 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2022 11:29:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57718 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niaQb-0006C3-J5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:29:21 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:39194) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1niaQZ-0006Bn-H9 for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:29:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=D0aAqjDv9uNh/aINlk6QlE7OCzQRu/UzI3vpuAXCa10=; b=gGYxIPCWiESuVkoBFzRzyM7AnW p401jQ0zO537QVuSxYuI2uTdbJNMYiwQqSTlObT60hDMWOe+xICEbAhw0k9KiKGNGetqOtaSbkeO7 JmHJO9BAvNj+ZlNeeydXF+SjSUDxyPdgYLpZ+3IV2jwtBC1aMj7pHQgQgEGesHoWEFQQ=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1niaQP-00058R-P0; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:29:11 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Andreas Schwab Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfq293q2.fsf@igel.home> <87o80q924y.fsf@igel.home> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEX9HqDhVq/m3C6r ytyWfar////NQ8kVAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YEGAsSJVNBwPoAAAGpSURBVDjLlVQB buQwCIRsH4A3fUBN/YBNfQ9ovfz/TWWwY6c96aSzlAgzHgaICRER079XSkm6MT14Md4BsApLHMRu E1ZfcGwqt8dJYrqrnogO1QMxhr8je/glBX0uANBgWKRarKUE4G1E3zReZi27cbegUB4pmpkCSI4H pRdE2JpmeoXRKVixtdY03K0n1o8jEtxuaJnybjuAx/5os7SdsV6tNLgRSt8fnv8JwGPF1fW91oqa eqwXnC+gpd2Bh3dtAFD1uj88mVuth1ebB8PTKs/68O9AiHUFmj2rbOUTlKn+4vm4ip8sX8S1Cg2A I1k9/gZc3LU9m2JESGuGQjeeDthPgKOD2LdfgIvn3fN34PMKeBffKAAzuYpHQch/a0VuVwAFhYOL M1eBaCfyx/Xia68CQJMc2aG9zRukoT6WzLZTWDz8B87JvHNKJ0VoW/eHcYZPwn1qg5wjo8hs3d6I FSMky56x8g+TZcY6+d3ajxUrODwmJ8SCtwYKhLzHcGJEefpzTGdfch3C9T+QPry8/DyAtI0/heYw dub4BLLTbZUUBD5Og/5jfQPXSF28tdPdbgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wNC0yNFQx MToxODozNyswMDowMBJB4HoAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDQtMjRUMTE6MTg6Mzcr MDA6MDBjHFjGAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Klaus Weiss's _Deutsche Elektronische Music 4 (1)_: "Pink Sails" Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:29:09 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87o80q924y.fsf@igel.home> (Andreas Schwab's message of "Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:01:01 +0200") Message-ID: <87o80qd8je.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Andreas Schwab writes: >> I propose Emacs Lisp to move into camp 3 > > This will break every use of \x in Emacs. As Vasilij says, it won't break much of the in-tree code (which usually looks like "\x3c\x7e\xff\xff\xff\xff\x7e\x3c"), but nevertheless, it'll break stuff in subtle ways, so I don't think it's an opt [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, Vasilij Schneidermann , Paul Eggert X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Andreas Schwab writes: >> I propose Emacs Lisp to move into camp 3 > > This will break every use of \x in Emacs. As Vasilij says, it won't break much of the in-tree code (which usually looks like "\x3c\x7e\xff\xff\xff\xff\x7e\x3c"), but nevertheless, it'll break stuff in subtle ways, so I don't think it's an option. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 18:36:03 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2022 22:36:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60299 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nikpm-0005rq-TF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 18:36:03 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:52312) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nikpl-0005rL-2q for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 18:36:01 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4119316009A; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id EkPUDYMCFffU; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 774CD1600C5; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:35:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id wj4t7T7jOZKt; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3EAAD16009A; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <04ac11a4-91a6-00f9-1a12-07e5f62b46b4@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:35:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.7.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfq2d8qi.fsf@gnus.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings In-Reply-To: <87sfq2d8qi.fsf@gnus.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 4/24/22 04:24, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > The likelihood of anybody actually encountering this issue is ... small. Sure, if strings are random. But strings from opponents aren't random. I'll readily grant that it's a much smaller exposure than SQL injection. Still, like SQL injection it's an exposure and should be fixed. > You want to quote all %c as if they were raw bytes? Or only following a > raw byte? Closer to the latter, but even less than the latter. I am being conservative and am proposing that Emacs do what it does now unless the resulting output would be misinterpreted on input. So I wouldn't change how all characters are quoted; only how characters are quoted when the result would be interpreted incorrectly. > what about (format "%cf" #x9e) Since that returns a multibyte string, I suggest "\u009ef" which is multibyte. For its unibyte counterpart (encode-coding-string (format "%cf" #x9e) 'iso-latin-1) I suggest the syntax "\x9e\ f" which is unibyte. (These are not the only possibilities; for example, the former could be "\u009e\ f" if you think that's clearer.) This string syntax is already supported by Emacs, so this wouldn't change the Lisp reader. > it creates > very confusing displayed strings. These examples are not *that* confusing. And although they may not be beautiful, correct strings are less confusing than incorrect strings. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 18:47:04 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2022 22:47:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60313 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nil0R-0006AE-TE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 18:47:04 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:53070) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nil0Q-00069c-Kp for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 18:47:02 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C2DC16009A; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:46:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id JVM-WlatSGUg; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4278F1600C5; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:46:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id Ypb0M2B3Uzf6; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0795816009A; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <038f65e7-2030-eb3d-cd3a-678a325b0ddb@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:46:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.7.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Vasilij Schneidermann References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 4/24/22 02:56, Vasilij Schneidermann wrote: > Under which conditions exactly does the bug happen? I run into it with emacs -nw or equivalent, which I often use when I have a high-latency network connection so GUI Emacs is too slow. A few people even run Emacs from text consoles, with no graphics or windowing system at all, though I'm usually not that hard-core. > trying to work around terminals being bad doesn't > seem worth the extra effort. Please bear with us poor users who don't always use GUIs... > what exactly should the logic be here? > Detect if there's a preceding hex escaped byte and if yes, display > adjacent bytes that are formatted using hex characters using escaping, > too? Simpler than that. When hex-escaping a character, Emacs would look at the next character and if it's hexadecimal would print "\ " (or some similar escaping approach). This is a simple test and won't hurt printing performance much in the usual case. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 25 03:40:24 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Apr 2022 07:40:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33039 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nitKZ-0007lv-TF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2022 03:40:24 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47466) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nitKX-0007lh-AQ for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2022 03:40:22 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=2nIoHj/9MJjzbiB+4qVEMT/dcRoeX9sV9TF2B7LsbFI=; b=VEJsQ6QwEXSTnQQ2vrW0X92Htv 0HlGvdyK5Ioh670L5XE0YRb7yYifLZjfSwmkxmEpKH8bo9Hg1w6l6ol3lTswJU0jQHYNCUDFPGRTJ lZstQtPYiC7BCdlEwtzeMGd5AJ5kgwLcqK4U4iKoiqLc4dsi67io7BzbfIJ4reWUYDsI=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nitKM-0007sK-SW; Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:40:13 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfq2d8qi.fsf@gnus.org> <04ac11a4-91a6-00f9-1a12-07e5f62b46b4@cs.ucla.edu> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAALVBMVEUEAgMnEyVLGQ5k LRwtDQqGOCK0bkSfWTPFdknclF9qNziPVkr7voUpKSr///8QDAzYAAAAAWJLR0QOb70wTwAAAAd0 SU1FB+YEGQcZGrd1qg0AAAFxSURBVDjL7dHNTsJAEAfwAZZ7eyXZBNcSr0hrN9FLLUtIvAJGrxLK hzeaFDiTtPACwCSe9AlMVF7CAzxA38WVmLC2HAxn57LJ/LL/mewCHK4M/MPfIXMsZMvEOQj5BxDi 0NVauyjcYrovzqYmbzVTfVIN/GAW+fsx5OfM9RdjnAo3BU4dw6gMbirKAbtjASk5CRA3Ihca1htP 7lW/+jCx8/jeTUGbe4j+/dJKQB7n4RMiLo0EZCc4kn1sp7a6w0D2V37iiTXC55NPxEUKCrVeJbRx kXisDBSqY7+E2LGSAIQHfVw0TgC2oKsALp91X6xrDeJt/BvYRcsS5xpQKRslivBeZLlDDfSY0lgB hzAmagMZRamuRAnhXq4NeyCHxzFVfst0hWm5PQkySlc25swgpOS9yhtbnW72YFeYwWzvWQJV9gW4 HTLG7O4p7NZVYclMFnRNCXKIGuX5Db6Kmt9A43ijgLcOvFF5FwWHS9PguPoC7oVs+F7ddOsAAAAl dEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjItMDQtMjVUMDc6MjU6MjYrMDA6MDCHAqnbAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRl Om1vZGlmeQAyMDIyLTA0LTI1VDA3OjI1OjI2KzAwOjAw9l8RZwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Prince's _Sign 'O' the Times (4): Vault Tracks I_: "All My Dreams" Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:40:06 +0200 In-Reply-To: <04ac11a4-91a6-00f9-1a12-07e5f62b46b4@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:35:53 -0700") Message-ID: <87fsm17grt.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Paul Eggert writes: >> The likelihood of anybody actually encountering this issue is ... small. > > Sure, if strings are random. But strings from opponents aren't random. > > I'll readily grant that it's a much smaller e [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Paul Eggert writes: >> The likelihood of anybody actually encountering this issue is ... small. > > Sure, if strings are random. But strings from opponents aren't random. > > I'll readily grant that it's a much smaller exposure than SQL > injection. Still, like SQL injection it's an exposure and should be > fixed. The opponent would have to get somebody to start an Emacs with -nw, then cut and paste a string with the mouse, then get the user to use the Lisp reader to read that string in again, and then end up with a string that will somehow be a security issue. Comparing this to SQL injection is far fetched, to put it mildly. We have a similar issue with the octal printer -- if you print something out with it, and you end up with something displayed as foo\205bar, you cut and paste that from -nw, and you save it into a file, you end up with a file containing 10 characters instead of 8, and then you have your exploit. I.e., the Lisp reader and strings isn't the only thing confusable here. >> what about (format "%cf" #x9e) > > Since that returns a multibyte string, I suggest "\u009ef" which is > multibyte. For its unibyte counterpart (encode-coding-string (format > "%cf" #x9e) 'iso-latin-1) I suggest the syntax "\x9e\ f" which is > unibyte. (These are not the only possibilities; for example, the > former could be "\u009e\ f" if you think that's clearer.) display-raw-bytes-as-hex is a display setting. You want to change it so that the data output will be different, which will break all kinds of things, even if (when you use the Lisp reader) it'll end up being the same. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 25 12:49:23 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Apr 2022 16:49:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35961 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nj1tr-00005a-1R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2022 12:49:23 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:36704) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nj1tq-00005I-7o for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2022 12:49:22 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF2C61600DB; Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id jFKb8pjBi_xc; Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32491600E5; Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:49:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id MasjtykqZYA7; Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AD9D11600DB; Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <28b0e428-9243-9817-c1e8-950fe357f386@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:49:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.7.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfq2d8qi.fsf@gnus.org> <04ac11a4-91a6-00f9-1a12-07e5f62b46b4@cs.ucla.edu> <87fsm17grt.fsf@gnus.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings In-Reply-To: <87fsm17grt.fsf@gnus.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 4/25/22 00:40, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Comparing this to SQL injection is far fetched Call me paranoid if you like. (Can you tell I used to work for a computer security company? :-) And to be honest my main motivation is irritation that cut-and-paste doesn't work, not security. > We have a similar issue with the octal printer -- if you print something > out with it, and you end up with something displayed as foo\205bar, you > cut and paste that from -nw, and you save it into a file, Nobody expects things to work if you output with one quoting scheme and input with a different one. But cutting and pasting from Emacs's read-eval-print-loop is expected to work. > display-raw-bytes-as-hex is a display setting. You want to change it so > that the data output will be different No, I would like to change only the display. (I had suggested otherwise in comment #5 of this bug report, but was mistaken and took that suggestion back in later comments.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 26 06:07:09 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Apr 2022 10:07:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37117 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njI68-0005au-T5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 06:07:09 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:58806) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njI66-0005aM-Lr for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 06:07:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=5fYJwKlfd5EnJEUCOegzXFSIw6XK+SkcBny8yN5AFmo=; b=o7uSKP79aSeaonCtzyjWnzE1CC 8WqCMou/GvUv+uqOv390gs5i7cbLejr7QC/HLLtGrWVgOGlRrcAgDVspJY/QwvWGAKQzZ8fQsBsQ1 YWacURexmZK1KySF7+8MnK8zc6l3T6fbWmFHSs7HnTklDn55ZNs1vcNyyIwtaQn3QyRA=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1njI5w-00079K-S6; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 12:06:58 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfq2d8qi.fsf@gnus.org> <04ac11a4-91a6-00f9-1a12-07e5f62b46b4@cs.ucla.edu> <87fsm17grt.fsf@gnus.org> <28b0e428-9243-9817-c1e8-950fe357f386@cs.ucla.edu> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEVAQD5XVlSAf32v rqwnJiX///8cGdnKAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAlwSFlzAAAOdAAADnQBaySz1gAAAAd0SU1FB+YE GgkfNsvc44wAAAFzSURBVDjLnZLtYcQgCIah5wDiZYBqOsAldgBs3X+m8mFs7vLv/JEAj8CLCnBZ SLqucaB3wYXhBM+JI34AeikkgVLKmeAE1VeOAyT39wPUsTEdPqzD8IK0TjCLzuVd/4XEsyYB4iNe gZt3Lbo9W3Yk5u6zt4IiIJEoGHPaL6psmaNkL7HNX5FEqPte3DwGSg70s6804zX7JiiSvtYzqOum ICPivX4GBtUOzB9yOgNIzw0j8O0RQJ2SDZBmbCK7/343EXo7MhoIeHAMbd0CW4YBIo63+t07033P ofMZfNRF4vnnkSn0JndmAB0Q5bYk6WRgXwX0+FO/OCYKnDJFBcVKdctoeiFygKHVBeUsIWJA6dlR gdyYtF+aAcCydAOsKbKHLWPxuAzgzw3UUUAWHwAcdE4FPC4gnkBvUsqMPp90DE58g4DjiQ3QrwCe AL8HUF/UFUSklPEKtI4pflZ1RDHSIK+AXoBPbvx1QK3O1x6dwyFigD8OqYZhEj8xqQAAACV0RVh0 ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wNC0yNlQwOTozMTo1NCswMDowMAETdhMAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9k aWZ5ADIwMjItMDQtMjZUMDk6MzE6NTQrMDA6MDBwTs6vAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Shearwater's _Shearwater plays Bowie's Berlin Trilogy: Part 1: Low_: "Subterraneans" Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 12:06:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: <28b0e428-9243-9817-c1e8-950fe357f386@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:49:15 -0700") Message-ID: <87wnfci2f3.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Paul Eggert writes: >> display-raw-bytes-as-hex is a display setting. You want to change it so >> that the data output will be different > > No, I would like to change only the display. (I had suggested > otherwise in co [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Paul Eggert writes: >> display-raw-bytes-as-hex is a display setting. You want to change it so >> that the data output will be different > > No, I would like to change only the display. (I had suggested > otherwise in comment #5 of this bug report, but was mistaken and took > that suggestion back in later comments.) Your last suggestion was to output (format "%cf" 129) => "\x81\x66" I think? Which is changing the data output. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 26 12:48:44 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Apr 2022 16:48:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40417 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njOMm-00028J-GV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 12:48:44 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:38744) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njOMk-000285-BO for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 12:48:42 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB4D8160052; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id b0ZBRaCUAHWc; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F105160091; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:48:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id DTCDSUvX_r11; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [131.179.64.200] (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DF301160052; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:48:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:48:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.8.0 Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings Content-Language: en-US To: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfq2d8qi.fsf@gnus.org> <04ac11a4-91a6-00f9-1a12-07e5f62b46b4@cs.ucla.edu> <87fsm17grt.fsf@gnus.org> <28b0e428-9243-9817-c1e8-950fe357f386@cs.ucla.edu> <87wnfci2f3.fsf@gnus.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department In-Reply-To: <87wnfci2f3.fsf@gnus.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 4/26/22 03:06, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Your last suggestion was to output > > (format "%cf" 129) > => "\x81\x66" > > I think? Which is changing the data output. Oh, right. Scratch that. Let's just use "\uXXXX" if multibyte, "\OOO" (octal) if unibyte. (This is only when the character precedes a hex digit.) That's simpler anyway. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 27 08:14:01 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2022 12:14:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41458 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njgYT-0003Ey-C7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Apr 2022 08:14:01 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:42276) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njgYR-0003El-D5 for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Apr 2022 08:14:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Y4ImW+7bM/iF0W1UvfyQ2m+Wn5Ea1S9o0E+4YPq9z3E=; b=CduNLpGrDvLIHmxOfZx7srEaZC 5A/84BxdRZ98RfOLhMoORHecsm0BSyrqQjTFFUelDc0rOlOuWHmccEhQCldGOfN0BCxpr21X5QahJ SvZRN/DqF9GTr2BpRbVqGzum1iC/E4To7/Ehb/7k0rvoh2ZQ53V20boJYdbezhAy6sEI=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1njgYD-00055F-6m; Wed, 27 Apr 2022 14:13:47 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfq2d8qi.fsf@gnus.org> <04ac11a4-91a6-00f9-1a12-07e5f62b46b4@cs.ucla.edu> <87fsm17grt.fsf@gnus.org> <28b0e428-9243-9817-c1e8-950fe357f386@cs.ucla.edu> <87wnfci2f3.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAALVBMVEX+/v7XzuGxkshZ OodxU6RoSJacaalZMlpDI0IgDh+QVXPHfKW7lL9wRmL///93KfLhAAAAAWJLR0QOb70wTwAAAAd0 SU1FB+YEGwwECB38kDMAAAF/SURBVDjL1dMhT8NAFAdwQKAQ8BUmqoYhC0XD3T4AazeFacZRAjMQ uOvIGRJyVxJ0e2IKQdJldmYoBOrsWGly34XbJng3Nwd/2V/e+7826cbG/8iezXoAs7nn5Be2GigM UIhwOM8pgADZ4CZaZBWwj87bCCN07AAOjhhlotENHECo5UsllRLtbnDqQMhyZSMYWoFOOn+ucikC d9XRElSahRCamM0he7MzwploLeBBf1t1YFGRj68vbT8o31nC4P0qsQyBYGahuv60kMFzcce+nHqe 9JKnRB0A6Jh5OR/G2a2f3gDw6TRRuZGlML7/CIDOOFNZkfZnfNq6d4B+xfdjakrRfz2EYHh1NXnv CWYqMwTnCm5m00h7pSgFBbAtGKfmK/rwGONDOCEF5WcFier7qir6AIwtJ23tRZ405QCuKugdifQH IRdlCiGv3rhdpD3Ssd8SgKxGd6SmtXfCVO4AH72QqFbz4lTJAbyKF5zUta7FuTTgqnWz/Al214A/ mB8HIcOZ9rwRIgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wNC0yN1QxMjowNDowOCswMDowMCU2 cAIAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDQtMjdUMTI6MDQ6MDgrMDA6MDBUa8i+AAAAAElF TkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Kate Bush's _Hounds of Love_: "The Big Sky" Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 14:13:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Paul Eggert's message of "Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:48:35 -0700") Message-ID: <87k0bad8qw.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Paul Eggert writes: >> Your last suggestion was to output >> (format "%cf" 129) >> => "\x81\x66" >> I think? Which is changing the data output. > > Oh, right. Scratch that. Let's just use "\uXXXX" if multibyte, "\OOO" > [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Paul Eggert writes: >> Your last suggestion was to output >> (format "%cf" 129) >> => "\x81\x66" >> I think? Which is changing the data output. > > Oh, right. Scratch that. Let's just use "\uXXXX" if multibyte, "\OOO" > (octal) if unibyte. (This is only when the character precedes a hex > digit.) That's simpler anyway. That will also change the output, which display-raw-bytes-as-hex is not supposed to do. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 27 13:21:19 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2022 17:21:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44221 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njlLq-0006la-NF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:21:18 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:41416) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njlLh-0006ky-D7 for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:21:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA7AA1600A7; Wed, 27 Apr 2022 10:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 97xVzBZh8zVJ; Wed, 27 Apr 2022 10:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30BE51600ED; Wed, 27 Apr 2022 10:21:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id nCtn25ZP7a-b; Wed, 27 Apr 2022 10:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [131.179.64.200] (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D7FC21600A7; Wed, 27 Apr 2022 10:21:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3a3dbd8f-4c7c-096b-a0d2-f7f329461abb@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 10:21:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.8.0 Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings Content-Language: en-US To: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <83tw3s8jhr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c05b888-0c4a-05c8-248a-6e550637fff4@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfq2d8qi.fsf@gnus.org> <04ac11a4-91a6-00f9-1a12-07e5f62b46b4@cs.ucla.edu> <87fsm17grt.fsf@gnus.org> <28b0e428-9243-9817-c1e8-950fe357f386@cs.ucla.edu> <87wnfci2f3.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0bad8qw.fsf@gnus.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department In-Reply-To: <87k0bad8qw.fsf@gnus.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 4/27/22 05:13, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: >> Oh, right. Scratch that. Let's just use "\uXXXX" if multibyte, "\OOO" >> (octal) if unibyte. (This is only when the character precedes a hex >> digit.) That's simpler anyway. > That will also change the output, which display-raw-bytes-as-hex is not > supposed to do. Could you explain what you mean by "change the output"? (Sorry, I'm not seeing it.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 27 13:23:05 2022 Received: (at 27270) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2022 17:23:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44231 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njlNZ-0006pe-Bb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:23:05 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:45332) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njlNW-0006ol-Q3 for 27270@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:23:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=gTOeIZVpFAchdImufmLmxQ5NN0GaLon6f6hnHEy+0t4=; b=cPDM1zQLsT5X24ozhHShh4SLdz iXdpnEKpl1CDOjKMqr64iIUAa+ex0TOUtHl8Lm80fGy9eQEP3rqHjJ02I9nBmUczQx6ybane4ovkm 2poVQrcHz2cHk11ZyViiGFDx1bl6qTWb/oUr6QOvgbORcrkhGrr+ffiRFQsORYrUmx9w=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1njlNN-0007lZ-1S; Wed, 27 Apr 2022 19:22:55 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfq2d8qi.fsf@gnus.org> <04ac11a4-91a6-00f9-1a12-07e5f62b46b4@cs.ucla.edu> <87fsm17grt.fsf@gnus.org> <28b0e428-9243-9817-c1e8-950fe357f386@cs.ucla.edu> <87wnfci2f3.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0bad8qw.fsf@gnus.org> <3a3dbd8f-4c7c-096b-a0d2-f7f329461abb@cs.ucla.edu> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEWbclq2i2SNcVVN MSasPzb///9/8nd/AAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YEGxEDMoBP72UAAAGcSURBVDjLdZOL ccMwCEAJ6QBRzwNQ0QES0ABxpP1nKiDLie2ay50lPf4QgAuE5JyZ4tMFUjwj2VmPYL2ZyjjeOlD/ kQNcdUJJ9iZvW+331ZWdIoRK3oi9W0LkKe0AxPM/gCAjWhmCe4DkAVUMRq7cczQQ9SlRpjCyR75b SR6fhQWIwJVZPmKzqDBSNLKXk9FDZ2ZVdSXJutTZi7OrqgCKeIhAi7k9uyqFRhzMguOW1QKFWHQM ZxGgK3qe0XYO0PU0uoh57W4OD2LAIhAT0gAenD0bAB1V9LZjuBcCcj9uNGZp6SO6hZV1eY8WvD3Q AXzOHNiTu5rVADEHXzUDeM1EiwnFPtlsxCtgitkvxUZL0BLybvqeklofrLBYQvbRmDn+YL6M9hjr n1Jafaik1O68Bc+pFn2kNLWdRWtf1UHq0+QAdvytj291gNEtDgtXKXVO2sqrxVw2ruZUq9Zc9lm1 ear6KSuY5smCsA68/P3KPLX28p0ob2ALqgbqbHnJFQ6u2hM50w234CgLGM07NFHlxOLU1U7kDPAJ 8BT+AKy7pC/MFreOAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTA0LTI3VDE3OjAzOjUwKzAwOjAw ocqYawAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wNC0yN1QxNzowMzo1MCswMDowMNCXINcAAAAA SUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Heidi Berry's _Love_: "Wake" Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 19:22:50 +0200 In-Reply-To: <3a3dbd8f-4c7c-096b-a0d2-f7f329461abb@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Wed, 27 Apr 2022 10:21:02 -0700") Message-ID: <87k0baqw45.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Paul Eggert writes: > Could you explain what you mean by "change the output"? (Sorry, I'm > not seeing it.) I said earlier: Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Paul Eggert writes: > Could you explain what you mean by "change the output"? (Sorry, I'm > not seeing it.) I said earlier: > display-raw-bytes-as-hex is a display setting. You want to change it so > that the data output will be different, which will break all kinds of > things, even if (when you use the Lisp reader) it'll end up being the > same. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 28 13:58:46 2022 Received: (at 27270-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2022 17:58:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49867 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nk8Pe-0002YH-3F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:58:46 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:46104) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nk8Pb-0002Y3-W1 for 27270-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:58:45 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9DA71600F4; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 10:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id cuFQ8SrHfN5E; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 10:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18FB8160100; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 10:58:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id cl9Nx-GC5IRD; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 10:58:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [131.179.64.200] (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E8C181600F4; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 10:58:36 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------T0C7yAt0hdK1iZhTeUxnqAJE" Message-ID: <742c3a8c-fdfa-cf9a-c033-597944c58b1f@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 10:58:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.8.0 Subject: Re: bug#27270: display-raw-bytes-as-hex generates ambiguous output for Emacs strings Content-Language: en-US To: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <29d6844f-2f6f-11c1-7877-a9d169e613f8@cs.ucla.edu> <8737bbxp6a.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <2d5a8cd8-0884-bc1e-4298-a84dca61acbf@cs.ucla.edu> <831squ8no8.fsf@gnu.org> <93d9c575-4eb2-ea9e-d998-a8f3cff33a1e@cs.ucla.edu> <83y3t271ar.fsf@gnu.org> <83shja6yoq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2yt7lad.fsf@gnu.org> <2202b54b-606f-0a10-abf7-5cb1a9164897@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0bfsxvk.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfq2d8qi.fsf@gnus.org> <04ac11a4-91a6-00f9-1a12-07e5f62b46b4@cs.ucla.edu> <87fsm17grt.fsf@gnus.org> <28b0e428-9243-9817-c1e8-950fe357f386@cs.ucla.edu> <87wnfci2f3.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0bad8qw.fsf@gnus.org> <3a3dbd8f-4c7c-096b-a0d2-f7f329461abb@cs.ucla.edu> <87k0baqw45.fsf@gnus.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department In-Reply-To: <87k0baqw45.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27270-done Cc: Eli Zaretskii , v.schneidermann@gmail.com, 27270-done@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------T0C7yAt0hdK1iZhTeUxnqAJE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 4/27/22 10:22, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Paul Eggert writes: > >> Could you explain what you mean by "change the output"? (Sorry, I'm >> not seeing it.) > > I said earlier: > >> display-raw-bytes-as-hex is a display setting. You want to change it so >> that the data output will be different Still not quite following, as I had been thinking more recently of changing only how display-raw-bytes-as-hex displays. That being said, I looked into the code and found that what I was asking for would be quite a pain to implement - more trouble than it's worth, anyway - so I withdraw the suggestion and am closing the bug report. I installed the attached, which documents the situation. --------------T0C7yAt0hdK1iZhTeUxnqAJE Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset=UTF-8; name="0001-Document-807-etc.-in-raw-byte-display.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Document-807-etc.-in-raw-byte-display.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RnJvbSBkNTAxZGI5NjJlYWUyYjgzMWEyNDk3YWRjODVhOTRlOTgwNjRlOTY5IE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBQYXVsIEVnZ2VydCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1 PgpEYXRlOiBUaHUsIDI4IEFwciAyMDIyIDEwOjUxOjAxIC0wNzAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRD SF0gRG9jdW1lbnQgXDgwNyBldGMuIGluIHJhdyBieXRlIGRpc3BsYXkKCiogZG9jL2VtYWNz L2Rpc3BsYXkudGV4aSAoRGlzcGxheSBDdXN0b20pOiBNZW50aW9uIHBvdGVudGlhbApjb25m dXNpb24gaW4gcmF3IGJ5dGUgZGlzcGxheS4KLS0tCiBkb2MvZW1hY3MvZGlzcGxheS50ZXhp IHwgMTEgKysrKysrKysrKysKIDEgZmlsZSBjaGFuZ2VkLCAxMSBpbnNlcnRpb25zKCspCgpk aWZmIC0tZ2l0IGEvZG9jL2VtYWNzL2Rpc3BsYXkudGV4aSBiL2RvYy9lbWFjcy9kaXNwbGF5 LnRleGkKaW5kZXggMmFjMGRjYTYyMi4uN2E2YzdmMzkxYiAxMDA2NDQKLS0tIGEvZG9jL2Vt YWNzL2Rpc3BsYXkudGV4aQorKysgYi9kb2MvZW1hY3MvZGlzcGxheS50ZXhpCkBAIC0yMDk3 LDMgKzIwOTcsMTQgQEAgRGlzcGxheSBDdXN0b20KIGJ5dGUgd2l0aCBhIGRlY2ltYWwgdmFs dWUgb2YgMTI4IGlzIGRpc3BsYXllZCBhcyBAY29kZXtcMjAwfS4gIFRvCiBjaGFuZ2UgZGlz cGxheSB0byB0aGUgaGV4YWRlY2ltYWwgZm9ybWF0IG9mIEBjb2Rle1x4ODB9LCBzZXQgdGhl CiB2YXJpYWJsZSBAY29kZXtkaXNwbGF5LXJhdy1ieXRlcy1hcy1oZXh9IHRvIEBjb2Rle3R9 LgorQ2FyZSBtYXkgYmUgbmVlZGVkIHdoZW4gaW50ZXJwcmV0aW5nIGEgcmF3IGJ5dGUgd2hl biBjb3B5aW5nCit0ZXh0IGZyb20gYSB0ZXJtaW5hbCBjb250YWluaW5nIGFuIEVtYWNzIHNl c3Npb24sIG9yIHdoZW4gYSB0ZXJtaW5hbCdzCitAY29kZXtlc2NhcGUtZ2x5cGh9IGZhY2Ug bG9va3MgbGlrZSB0aGUgZGVmYXVsdCBmYWNlLiAgRm9yIGV4YW1wbGUsIGJ5CitkZWZhdWx0 IEVtYWNzIGRpc3BsYXlzIHRoZSBmb3VyIGNoYXJhY3RlcnMgQHNhbXB7XH0sIEBzYW1wezJ9 LAorQHNhbXB7MH0sIEBzYW1wezB9IHdpdGggdGhlIHNhbWUgY2hhcmFjdGVycyBpdCBkaXNw bGF5cyBhIGJ5dGUgd2l0aAorZGVjaW1hbCB2YWx1ZSAxMjguICBUaGUgcHJvYmxlbSBjYW4g YmUgd29yc2Ugd2l0aCBoZXggZGlzcGxheXMsIHdoZXJlCit0aGUgcmF3IGJ5dGUgMTI4IGZv bGxvd2VkIGJ5IHRoZSBjaGFyYWN0ZXIgQHNhbXB7N30gaXMgZGlzcGxheWVkIGFzCitAY29k ZXtceDgwN30sIHdoaWNoIEVtYWNzIExpc3AgcmVhZHMgYXMgdGhlIHNpbmdsZSBjaGFyYWN0 ZXIgVSswODA3CitTQU1BUklUQU4gTEVUVEVSIElUOyB0aGlzIGNvbmZ1c2lvbiBkb2VzIG5v dCBvY2N1ciB3aXRoIHRoZQorY29ycmVzcG9uZGluZyBvY3RhbCBkaXNwbGF5IEBjb2Rle1wy MDA3fSBiZWNhdXNlIG9jdGFsIGVzY2FwZXMgY29udGFpbgorYXQgbW9zdCB0aHJlZSBkaWdp dHMuCi0tIAoyLjM1LjEKCg== --------------T0C7yAt0hdK1iZhTeUxnqAJE-- From unknown Fri Sep 12 13:31:32 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. 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