From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 06 05:50:21 2017 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2017 09:50:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57176 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6wM1-0000Tj-Fh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 05:50:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45939) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6wM0-0000TW-Ah for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 05:50:20 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6wLu-0005GU-AK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 05:50:15 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:37442) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6wLu-0005GQ-7A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 05:50:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36910) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6wLs-0000LT-Vm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 05:50:13 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6wLo-0005Dn-5g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 05:50:13 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:56842) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6wLn-0005Ao-V0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 05:50:08 -0400 Received: from cm-84.209.243.26.getinternet.no ([84.209.243.26] helo=stories) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6wLb-0007MI-I7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 11:49:57 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 26.0.50; (2 characters) is usually wrong Date: Sat, 06 May 2017 11:49:55 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) To reproduce, open a file, type in "=C3=A1" and save the file. Emacs will now say (if you're a utf-8 kind of person) Wrote =E2=80=98/tmp/a=E2=80=99 (2 characters) which is wrong, since there's just one character in the buffer. Perhaps saying "(2 bytes)" will be more helpful? (I'd rather Emacs default to not saying anything about the length of the file saved at all by default, since it's just noise to me (and I'll assume to most people).) In GNU Emacs 26.0.50 (build 3, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.14.5) of 2017-04-24 built on stories Repository revision: a1f93c1dfa53dbe007faa09ab0c6e913e86e3ffe Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11604000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux 8.7 (jessie) --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 06 06:33:18 2017 Received: (at 26796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2017 10:33:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57197 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6x1W-0001W0-Ri for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 06:33:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:52465) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6x1R-0001Vk-UV for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 06:33:13 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6x1G-0001KZ-RA for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 06:33:04 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:48366) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6x1G-0001KV-Nq; Sat, 06 May 2017 06:32:58 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2710 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1d6x1F-0007rE-W0; Sat, 06 May 2017 06:32:58 -0400 Date: Sat, 06 May 2017 13:32:33 +0300 Message-Id: <837f1uff7i.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-reply-to: (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sat, 06 May 2017 11:49:55 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#26796: 26.0.50; (2 characters) is usually wrong References: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26796 Cc: 26796@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Date: Sat, 06 May 2017 11:49:55 +0200 > > To reproduce, open a file, type in "á" and save the file. Emacs will > now say (if you're a utf-8 kind of person) > > Wrote ‘/tmp/a’ (2 characters) > > which is wrong, since there's just one character in the buffer. I see "1 characters" here. I think the result depends on who you type the above: if there are two characters, a followed by ́, then the file really has 2 characters, and they are only shown as one on display. Try "C-u C-x =" to see what you have in the buffer. > Perhaps saying "(2 bytes)" will be more helpful? I really doubt that: Emacs users tend to think in terms of characters than in terms of bytes. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 06 06:38:20 2017 Received: (at 26796-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2017 10:38:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57202 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6x6S-0001dQ-1Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 06:38:20 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:51330) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6x6Q-0001dF-IF for 26796-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 06:38:18 -0400 Received: from cm-84.209.243.26.getinternet.no ([84.209.243.26] helo=stories) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6x6M-0005dR-B0; Sat, 06 May 2017 12:38:16 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#26796: 26.0.50; (2 characters) is usually wrong References: <837f1uff7i.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAGFBMVEUvBww0DBDejFoiAQY+ FRRtKhodAAMpAwhO7ialAAACVUlEQVQ4jW2TTU/cMBCGJ2VRrjYY7T1S7kUDyZUsjnJlQ0Z7rZRi rq4C+O/3HSd02wrvylnPM+98OUv+6zVR4b4mVFjnO++ttZ2z7h9gYc1q/fTyF+isE5lEvPR4Tmfw ubq8b+EoHwyZM7e+sxswhshkabEF2ACtKwNj1nh6opL0SwYJsW0KrDJSmehTl8vpAIp8SnmPCc8c zVOk84K5hGHNEbN7LNMK8Ltwa0EolVyZUhkfErwgcJ+VFqXbp5SKjjqTJYWxDvJIF28PGfTygJiq KxzxgijvHcCdH+shJW6TehEzx/3dVCa+GysA+LVpaQkgRWdkKvm2qio5MTSJmWhmnnfdWE8X7wBZ o8EKgCVc9rBMK5ABoVK0qgi7EaZJaSVyTDokVMXLrL6175FcpJp+OVwcQJvaKxWIqA75fW+McZqD DxDcdKtdg2FwjgIa+Yaj8yuoZRoSR83R8HvtRkH4qh4heEJ/G7iVYQWi4Bm9Rw/wwSwYkwKNpCAV mhzgILlS3UROGFehiqYJL7kayZs8MrfkoQB4RW83cswd+gGtRQ3FTQgvYzVdHq+0Pf+oQ9xpHwDh UHfi3zAAAL0pbbBlgJ9SH6c2/zuGFMvvCpKC2Uk/tH0NxbDwqsihQnt4Wlpkn87Jw4WCBjPDrSP7 I+dZwfahQJX3GVy3iTUHfFcQ5hvtvR/wRuFqYVkymMMPycM6ctsCIEXOoUhvpB5rvFGlpX1Ymg2E +3xVJ53VjvavJvxZ+jKemhnA0vXt/gyQaC0EOfa2DP8vVkC2bFZH5k3FMRb+N1IKBDmNRwU5AAAA AElFTkSuQmCC Date: Sat, 06 May 2017 12:38:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: <837f1uff7i.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 06 May 2017 13:32:33 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26796-done Cc: 26796-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I see "1 characters" here. I think the result depends on who you type > the above: if there are two characters, a followed by =CC=81, then the fi= le > really has 2 characters, and they are only shown as one on display. > Try "C-u C-x =3D" to see what you have in the buffer. No, it was an =C3=A1, but the problem was instead that I apparently had fumbled and added a newline before saving? Hm. Sorry for the noise; closing. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 06 06:45:50 2017 Received: (at 26796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2017 10:45:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57212 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6xDi-0001ok-1C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 06:45:50 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:51402) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6xDg-0001od-HG for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 06:45:48 -0400 Received: from cm-84.209.243.26.getinternet.no ([84.209.243.26] helo=stories) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6xDd-0006Hj-Ty; Sat, 06 May 2017 12:45:47 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#26796: 26.0.50; (2 characters) is usually wrong References: <837f1uff7i.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAMFBMVEX/gQn/bQn+AQX+Iwj/ YgX+Ggf9Cgb/Pwf/LQfyAAHeAAH8BQT/AADpAAH+EQT/VgfqefeQAAABMElEQVQ4jWMwC01SgoFD cJaSGoPNGeyAIQmXhA4uCRziZxhySNYBpU+fObMHzMhBkjCv2VFnb1H9uf2ZaUxdX73wUXOIxHE5 G3GH8x94WhhjhM8wFtcXPhD5A5Y40tPDXnKkhKdd/o3/GXfX8kR7Hx+wxGGOmvLyI+Y8FR+f1nP7 MBcLHOmwgdix9cyxnHNv3rzed+aMzZvXb96ceU2Mc0HgzzFkiT1w5rFC5KBGkjjTzxKDJDEHwW73 R5ZAMrbPHIflOFyVU33mTNuZE2/QJI5yMAeer5D5YYCu4yi76IHjxX++26NLnPtz5si59zLvPmLo eHMmOcTFR1CQsKt0CDqXaIk5Q0tChwgdZ3FJnFqFLHEHwZ6FS+LkGhwSp1YiSyCpOrUGl8QqHBIo gHoSqQAhGlRFwh6Z4gAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== Date: Sat, 06 May 2017 12:45:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: <837f1uff7i.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 06 May 2017 13:32:33 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26796 Cc: 26796@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Perhaps saying "(2 bytes)" will be more helpful? > > I really doubt that: Emacs users tend to think in terms of characters > than in terms of bytes. But this is questionable, at least: (with-temp-buffer (set-buffer-multibyte nil) (insert-file-contents "~/rms.j= pg") (write-region (point-min) (point-max) "/tmp/a.jpg")) Wrote =E2=80=98/tmp/a.jpg=E2=80=99 (889 characters) There are no characters in a JPEG file; it's all bytes. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 06 07:07:19 2017 Received: (at 26796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2017 11:07:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57241 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6xYR-0002MS-FH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 07:07:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58784) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6xYM-0002MB-9L for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 07:07:13 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6xYD-0000oH-CA for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 07:07:05 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:48618) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6xYD-0000oD-8v; Sat, 06 May 2017 07:07:01 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2860 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1d6xYC-00085j-N0; Sat, 06 May 2017 07:07:01 -0400 Date: Sat, 06 May 2017 14:06:37 +0300 Message-Id: <8337cifdmq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-reply-to: (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sat, 06 May 2017 12:45:45 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#26796: 26.0.50; (2 characters) is usually wrong References: <837f1uff7i.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26796 Cc: 26796@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: 26796@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 06 May 2017 12:45:45 +0200 > > But this is questionable, at least: > > (with-temp-buffer (set-buffer-multibyte nil) (insert-file-contents "~/rms.jpg") (write-region (point-min) (point-max) "/tmp/a.jpg")) > Wrote ‘/tmp/a.jpg’ (889 characters) > > There are no characters in a JPEG file; it's all bytes. Each byte is a character in this case, right? Anyway, since you don't like this feature, it's clear that you can come up with many examples where you don't like the result. People who do like it will most probably disagree. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 06 08:15:35 2017 Received: (at 26796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2017 12:15:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57274 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6ycV-0005ns-GE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 08:15:35 -0400 Received: from mail-io0-f172.google.com ([209.85.223.172]:34251) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6ycQ-0005nZ-Ut for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 08:15:30 -0400 Received: by mail-io0-f172.google.com with SMTP id k91so29105045ioi.1 for <26796@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 06 May 2017 05:15:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=dILgsbW8VakGpMcLTQ3hvYNkcyYGZf7jB9ymtuXtKls=; b=AB2y2OKicJQFP6gwMfZvbn7hc0H7LFc4gA8egSf54IsOHC8N0PuHs7SrTZsScBzZPy LfEfwkrxQ1g5mK5PZeIOIdYkahBugTxMWVWoMqfI8Dg79l3Qgi+r8ahc59AGOXlX8zr1 QQm4+JOUmp4hPLsHU4ltSPgOePHpiohIIs0mx28sETcwNdV592WDBhPUki81TDmL4h/R 5Op3uaxC7pu2I3HLbPa9hffrXjoXk4FDjhZHBXHUvDKH3tWqvEC5Okf4kjLp/lYPyS3I KL1/tmASlyMcWR9ocW6RvD4cYIe6kJzQqFwiBpTfp+LSWllHyMwBueceNTzuXjGs324h vQWg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=dILgsbW8VakGpMcLTQ3hvYNkcyYGZf7jB9ymtuXtKls=; b=kIgVQYCJECSSMsU84pq5a2pbBJZlTeP5qa8QIqDKZfX/mJ/o764F+7mmBrjJ9vMA8I WuqGk2THp+Ew1rpQoMfI31fiJS29y+0vpAv9a/hgnOfMHVHgNlBsM6le4Ep78ua9ufQY SBXPNs83GfaKYNg4kD0EPTaf6i4oe6uO1JLYucx2psFIQx116disMZpU7HWDNc5HKhrL WolWuXF9IXcEhOuYCPaG8yVUqZAcMClsRWCE//142wN+Fa8OZ82Fmt/f9cziqEVwgKmA /h+PV1nbS7lH6QW332Yttxa9zkfH9K8uXNLpbpLMGfwjuMYtGmrGw7FioM9Zv5iKFe4i OolQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/4RbK8Tpyd5Y3SwbrpMbsIDEkdb83T/pVoVYIm7Urb6gOqOkPp/ y6aNJbZT50dNfuZf X-Received: by 10.107.6.69 with SMTP id 66mr17432170iog.163.1494072921353; Sat, 06 May 2017 05:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zony ([45.2.7.65]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id r141sm1961796ita.2.2017.05.06.05.15.20 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sat, 06 May 2017 05:15:20 -0700 (PDT) From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#26796: 26.0.50; (2 characters) is usually wrong References: Date: Sat, 06 May 2017 08:16:53 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 06 May 2017 11:49:55 +0200") Message-ID: <87wp9ukwne.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26796 Cc: 26796@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > (I'd rather Emacs default to not saying anything about the length of the > file saved at all by default, since it's just noise to me (and I'll > assume to most people).) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Anyway, since you don't like this feature, it's clear that you can > come up with many examples where you don't like the result. People > who do like it will most probably disagree. Actually this reminds I was planning on reverting this feature entirely, I haven't seen anyone say they like it (the bug reporter who initiated this feature never responded: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=354#81) whereas quite a few seem to actively dislike it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 06 10:19:40 2017 Received: (at 26796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2017 14:19:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58160 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d70Ye-0000SY-Fh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 10:19:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:33828) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d70Yc-0000SL-M0 for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 10:19:38 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d70YS-0003MN-F6 for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 10:19:33 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:50240) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d70YS-0003MJ-CQ; Sat, 06 May 2017 10:19:28 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3022 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1d70YR-0004re-Lk; Sat, 06 May 2017 10:19:28 -0400 Date: Sat, 06 May 2017 17:19:04 +0300 Message-Id: <831ss2f4pz.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net In-reply-to: <87wp9ukwne.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> (npostavs@users.sourceforge.net) Subject: Re: bug#26796: 26.0.50; (2 characters) is usually wrong References: <87wp9ukwne.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26796 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 26796@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net > Date: Sat, 06 May 2017 08:16:53 -0400 > Cc: 26796@debbugs.gnu.org > > Actually this reminds I was planning on reverting this feature entirely, Since it's already implemented, maybe just make it optional, by default off. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 06 13:20:34 2017 Received: (at 26796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2017 17:20:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58493 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d73Nh-0001pN-Om for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 13:20:33 -0400 Received: from mail-io0-f195.google.com ([209.85.223.195]:36455) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d73Ng-0001pB-Ml for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 13:20:32 -0400 Received: by mail-io0-f195.google.com with SMTP id f102so1311387ioi.3 for <26796@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 06 May 2017 10:20:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=4W1J07hTwlkG4hiDNgrf+M7669FG4R/VqRXQT6KZHKQ=; b=fzcjI5/jwLiv17fJrtCyw58yC4BAK27UzDn8fiyGpccu2dvNZqGLBWzDYzxahoKJ89 JBT0fqDqaI8WBOz0iHKtWFEhhve/jhXVLHklJkT9sEQRUg+J8E6/kf73lPysxw4eDIL0 Jk3m70YJ6VzBdfYKPWms4AdvrD8A6spMKurkrFJHITVSKst+TMQSPJZvoV8Z6KhQgDJf 7s4Xa26xbH2C0Mdd/r7IroMZ6gRO6iZkbKcY4rJ9bviHCOqFI5Xk+xTRBTZiWDoSagAL KfvkidiDs1ouMu8O61Qcrwiu+nxsReoN2xqE+SWN71Hxh3MzExQ6iBEHLSOEqjjPA2LL Z6ug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=4W1J07hTwlkG4hiDNgrf+M7669FG4R/VqRXQT6KZHKQ=; b=l9/zWRBOXUUZvZRONA85xW5TVa3Lj/M9ncVMCg8sHWscCQnhVFcDmSRRMS3EUdLLI+ qylnjH2EwOjcXaV8YTU+g/w8yJbRKKKmdnYiXcXEmp3jIru/H03s385as34nYmFZISMC KqPfPddTEFGkElg04lYbdPVzw4TIYc+EPAHm4NwEOHuPFo/2PjX6CtT1Ld457TPiemnS Rh8RWuCggpvCuqtNBW6weoXhzarAXU7mrwyQsj91jMM81Je07H/6UGNa/622Tk4e42Z5 ogDhZNoHvFiNpklay6QZGrcP64orjR9mbwIun7AUz1wrQouFTqeyXKTlMmweaBrYCcYt outg== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/5YAagM8JCyoM/+iyquqMfYcKKzJcVr7r2kSS1SUkuX18xqgBC2 Rcc5hR/i/m8YQg== X-Received: by 10.107.136.14 with SMTP id k14mr55619557iod.89.1494091227139; Sat, 06 May 2017 10:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zony ([45.2.7.65]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id y13sm1100912ita.1.2017.05.06.10.20.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sat, 06 May 2017 10:20:26 -0700 (PDT) From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#26796: 26.0.50; (2 characters) is usually wrong References: <87wp9ukwne.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <831ss2f4pz.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 06 May 2017 13:21:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: <831ss2f4pz.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 06 May 2017 17:19:04 +0300") Message-ID: <87h90xlx3d.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26796 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 26796@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net >> Date: Sat, 06 May 2017 08:16:53 -0400 >> Cc: 26796@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> Actually this reminds I was planning on reverting this feature entirely, > > Since it's already implemented, maybe just make it optional, by > default off. I'm not sure the added complexity is worth it for a feature that probably nobody will bother using... From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 06 21:12:00 2017 Received: (at 26796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2017 01:12:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58789 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d7Ajw-0001Bt-Iw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 21:12:00 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:49592) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d7Aju-0001Be-CB for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 21:11:59 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA681600B9; Sat, 6 May 2017 18:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id hYoQ563wFyCH; Sat, 6 May 2017 18:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 712741600C1; Sat, 6 May 2017 18:11:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id bYKL-qwACu_S; Sat, 6 May 2017 18:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.153.188.248]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49CC81600B9; Sat, 6 May 2017 18:11:51 -0700 (PDT) To: 26796@debbugs.gnu.org From: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#26796: 26.0.50; (2 characters) is usually wrong Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 18:11:51 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C3286B05D6C9AFEE22448C0F" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26796 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , larsi@gnus.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C3286B05D6C9AFEE22448C0F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Appending " (NNNN characters)" to the "Wrote FOO" messages appears to be=20 unpopular and at times confusing. At least it should be off by default, s= o I=20 installed the attached. It'd be fine with me if we removed them entirely. --------------C3286B05D6C9AFEE22448C0F Content-Type: text/x-diff; name="0001-New-var-write-region-verbose-default-nil.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-New-var-write-region-verbose-default-nil.patch" =46rom 33c96bacd656cffeedf32038686c0ea99b7c411b Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Paul Eggert Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 18:00:23 -0700 Subject: [PATCH] New var write-region-verbose, default nil By popular demand, write-region char counts are now off by default (Bug#26796). * src/fileio.c (write-region-verbose): New Lisp var. (write_region): Output char count only if the var is non-nil. * doc/emacs/files.texi (Misc File Ops), etc/NEWS: Document this. --- doc/emacs/files.texi | 7 ++++--- etc/NEWS | 6 +++--- src/fileio.c | 34 +++++++++++++++++++++++----------- 3 files changed, 30 insertions(+), 17 deletions(-) diff --git a/doc/emacs/files.texi b/doc/emacs/files.texi index bc977b7..d36fe65 100644 --- a/doc/emacs/files.texi +++ b/doc/emacs/files.texi @@ -1657,9 +1657,10 @@ Misc File Ops copies the contents of the region into the specified file. @kbd{M-x append-to-file} adds the text of the region to the end of the specified file. @xref{Accumulating Text}. When called interactively, -these commands will print a message in the echo area giving the name -of the file affected as well as the number of characters which were -added. The variable @code{write-region-inhibit-fsync} applies to +these commands print a message in the echo area giving the name +of the file affected; if the variable @code{write-region-verbose} is +non-nil the message also reports the number of characters written. +The variable @code{write-region-inhibit-fsync} applies to these commands, as well as saving files; see @ref{Customize Save}. =20 @findex set-file-modes diff --git a/etc/NEWS b/etc/NEWS index 2918c6e..1f1f4b4 100644 --- a/etc/NEWS +++ b/etc/NEWS @@ -94,9 +94,9 @@ required capabilities are found in terminfo. See the F= AQ node * Changes in Emacs 26.1 =20 +++ -** The functions write-region, append-to-file, and the like now output -the number of characters added in addition to the name of the file -affected. +** The functions write-region, append-to-file, and the like now also +output the number of characters added in addition to the name of the +file affected, if the new variable 'write-region-verbose' is non-nil. =20 ** The variable 'emacs-version' no longer includes the build number. This is now stored separately in a new variable, 'emacs-build-number'. diff --git a/src/fileio.c b/src/fileio.c index ad5ab61..6138bfc 100644 --- a/src/fileio.c +++ b/src/fileio.c @@ -5153,17 +5153,24 @@ write_region (Lisp_Object start, Lisp_Object end,= Lisp_Object filename, { EMACS_INT nchars =3D (STRINGP (start) ? SCHARS (start) : XINT (end) - XINT (start)); - AUTO_STRING (format, NUMBERP (append) - ? (nchars !=3D 1 - ? "Updated `%s' (%d characters)" - : "Updated `%s' (%d character)") - : ! NILP (append) - ? (nchars !=3D 1 - ? "Added to `%s' (%d characters)" - : "Added to `%s' (%d character)") - : (nchars !=3D 1 - ? "Wrote `%s' (%d characters)" - : "Wrote `%s' (%d character)")); + AUTO_STRING (format, + (NUMBERP (append) + ? (NILP (Vwrite_region_verbose) + ? "Updated `%s'" + : nchars =3D=3D 1 + ? "Updated `%s' (1 character)" + : "Updated `%s' (%d characters)") + : ! NILP (append) + ? (NILP (Vwrite_region_verbose) + ? "Added to `%s'" + : nchars =3D=3D 1 + ? "Added to `%s' (1 character)" + : "Added to `%s' (%d characters)") + : (NILP (Vwrite_region_verbose) + ? "Wrote `%s'" + : nchars =3D=3D 1 + ? "Wrote `%s' (1 character)" + : "Wrote `%s' (%d characters)"))); CALLN (Fmessage, format, visit_file, make_number (nchars)); } return Qnil; @@ -6135,6 +6142,11 @@ These are the annotations made by other annotation= functions that were already called. See also `write-region-annotate-functions'. = */); Vwrite_region_annotations_so_far =3D Qnil; =20 + DEFVAR_LISP ("write-region-verbose", + Vwrite_region_verbose, + doc: /* If non-nil, be more verbose when writing a region. */);= + Vwrite_region_verbose =3D Qnil; + DEFVAR_LISP ("inhibit-file-name-handlers", Vinhibit_file_name_handlers= , doc: /* A list of file name handlers that temporarily should not= be used. This applies only to the operation `inhibit-file-name-operation'. */); --=20 2.7.4 --------------C3286B05D6C9AFEE22448C0F-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 08 01:02:36 2017 Received: (at 26796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 May 2017 05:02:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32784 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d7aoe-0007bX-Bn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2017 01:02:36 -0400 Received: from mail-qt0-f174.google.com ([209.85.216.174]:34704) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d7aoc-0007bK-Jp for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2017 01:02:35 -0400 Received: by mail-qt0-f174.google.com with SMTP id j29so41419017qtj.1 for <26796@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 07 May 2017 22:02:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=udel-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=ZOTK/SVwPIjAS31BivUP02t93vnkHas7frkg2XkF2BE=; b=HtLTP4XBG6belv2HkZA/MxQAALR6oYfkvFHP+aQDuwWCP+940jSOFsfp8/xA+qlFpD UOCW31zTkY5UcWvuwjJH9WFiIYpZ4nGjdiCDQdOBNwxnxtNWmqMsrJ6FifafBLQD7fCE ZaBBf0vgd1oruqeb36ygqd/wlTYElHOf70AV1ut4pSc2+1Vxtlm4lcYVAc4CbpCWD4YM /AekAlUYa5Gds7BJZZphCWSSrmZou/sYGfR1Vho0ZUO4V1Ww50IJGBDeI+DMU13EW50u zQUVefhjnBvrA+9G9ykm+wBTkJb6lTNeoUaudYZeWrwx7m8LkTnBy5oR/ITsb4t0dfq9 E1kw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=ZOTK/SVwPIjAS31BivUP02t93vnkHas7frkg2XkF2BE=; b=HsBQuyzr9PHD9hvm94ICu+3ezTuXZJqiKyoEju4MhMGpuJR1t4ZLPnTtbW6oNIMlOd vOCiCbg3ajdlMkMPB6aVwcXH7rbouCIJVodrVD+ppcggPV3myECjldEqHELL7pdt1fVW bJb82bOZBKH2aGc+EBokgObWRh92whEJNW24Buj/D6e8S1YWUVrelsAOIWsnyNWEumlC Qch0XGQACUTKp2Snvzyoj2DZN46DEgQh2lram94u4IgpltODVwI6E6+AXCuzenf8cWAF 9MhGKgxfQa/tDggGB5Oqo/ZYIgssCizGsfGez3/dbqYOHA4XktczOwMvPYjpH4Tljnqo Il4g== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/5XPmDbzSoulxBN61hwF5A499q3d4wZ9o3L/PCOLMRN/LgebAhC T21eH6wij82/E57e X-Received: by 10.200.47.83 with SMTP id k19mr25316490qta.254.1494219749022; Sun, 07 May 2017 22:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from holos.localdomain (pool-173-64-125-158.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net. [173.64.125.158]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i5sm8973020qtb.63.2017.05.07.22.02.27 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 May 2017 22:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by holos.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 801C76ACBD; Mon, 8 May 2017 01:02:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Oteiza To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#26796: 26.0.50; (2 characters) is usually wrong References: <87wp9ukwne.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <831ss2f4pz.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 08 May 2017 01:02:27 -0400 In-Reply-To: <831ss2f4pz.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 06 May 2017 17:19:04 +0300") Message-ID: <87efw00wm4.fsf@holos> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26796 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 26796@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net >> Date: Sat, 06 May 2017 08:16:53 -0400 >> Cc: 26796@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> Actually this reminds I was planning on reverting this feature entirely, > > Since it's already implemented, maybe just make it optional, by > default off. Was there any reason to implement it in the first place? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 08 10:34:41 2017 Received: (at 26796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 May 2017 14:34:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34476 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d7jkD-0006LF-Tj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2017 10:34:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45447) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d7jk9-0006Kz-Py for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2017 10:34:37 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d7jk0-0002TN-7N for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2017 10:34:28 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:52744) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d7jk0-0002TJ-4S; Mon, 08 May 2017 10:34:24 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1468 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1d7jjy-0002LV-RG; Mon, 08 May 2017 10:34:23 -0400 Date: Mon, 08 May 2017 17:33:59 +0300 Message-Id: <83tw4vct9k.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mark Oteiza In-reply-to: <87efw00wm4.fsf@holos> (message from Mark Oteiza on Mon, 08 May 2017 01:02:27 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#26796: 26.0.50; (2 characters) is usually wrong References: <87wp9ukwne.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <831ss2f4pz.fsf@gnu.org> <87efw00wm4.fsf@holos> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26796 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 26796@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Mark Oteiza > Cc: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net, larsi@gnus.org, 26796@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 08 May 2017 01:02:27 -0400 > > Was there any reason to implement it in the first place? Seems we are back at the discussion we had starting here: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2017-04/msg00219.html ;-) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 08 12:00:17 2017 Received: (at 26796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 May 2017 16:00:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34596 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d7l57-000205-An for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2017 12:00:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39737) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d7l56-0001uR-6f for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2017 12:00:16 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d7l50-00079I-6y for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2017 12:00:11 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:53933) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d7l4l-0006xw-T6; Mon, 08 May 2017 11:59:55 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1d7l4j-00054h-8I; Mon, 08 May 2017 11:59:53 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#26796: 26.0.50; (2 characters) is usually wrong References: <87wp9ukwne.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <831ss2f4pz.fsf@gnu.org> <87efw00wm4.fsf@holos> <83tw4vct9k.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: wire transfer SSL INS Shots fired Biological weapon X-Ran: =Z8h]MPwQ$X'h-V_!X@-h~tUr5q>d_=v56HJaAPGmim@qVu>u1BMt&4c.vOuxV$[AI\.>r X-Hue: brightwhite X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Mon, 08 May 2017 11:59:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83tw4vct9k.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 08 May 2017 17:33:59 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26796 Cc: Mark Oteiza , larsi@gnus.org, 26796@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Was there any reason to implement it in the first place? > > Seems we are back at the discussion we had starting here: > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2017-04/msg00219.html In which, if I read right, literally no-one was in favour of the feature? A feature that several people have now spent time debugging, tweaking, and documenting, and which will have to be supported going forwards. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 08 12:08:52 2017 Received: (at 26796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 May 2017 16:08:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34600 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d7lDN-0003l1-5m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2017 12:08:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42377) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d7lDI-0003kk-ME for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2017 12:08:48 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d7lD9-00027z-LT for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2017 12:08:39 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:54116) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d7lCx-00021K-Mk; Mon, 08 May 2017 12:08:23 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1747 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1d7lCw-0006ph-3a; Mon, 08 May 2017 12:08:22 -0400 Date: Mon, 08 May 2017 19:07:56 +0300 Message-Id: <83d1bjcowz.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Glenn Morris In-reply-to: (message from Glenn Morris on Mon, 08 May 2017 11:59:52 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#26796: 26.0.50; (2 characters) is usually wrong References: <87wp9ukwne.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <831ss2f4pz.fsf@gnu.org> <87efw00wm4.fsf@holos> <83tw4vct9k.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26796 Cc: mvoteiza@udel.edu, larsi@gnus.org, 26796@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: Mark Oteiza , larsi@gnus.org, 26796@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net > Date: Mon, 08 May 2017 11:59:52 -0400 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> Was there any reason to implement it in the first place? > > > > Seems we are back at the discussion we had starting here: > > > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2017-04/msg00219.html > > In which, if I read right, literally no-one was in favour of the feature? > A feature that several people have now spent time debugging, tweaking, > and documenting, and which will have to be supported going forwards. Is this a complaint about something I did? Just wondering. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 08 20:41:53 2017 Received: (at 26796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 May 2017 00:41:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60438 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d7tDp-0005JX-JP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2017 20:41:52 -0400 Received: from mail-qt0-f169.google.com ([209.85.216.169]:35417) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d7tDh-0005JE-Q1 for 26796@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2017 20:41:46 -0400 Received: by mail-qt0-f169.google.com with SMTP id n4so63975396qte.2 for <26796@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 08 May 2017 17:41:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=udel-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=VE3NRW9RFib06UMtW1thQ1ISMIwpqENu25JAe5BbCNc=; b=K52CXNXKLpVIpV3lOkPaD27ICsqXvmrI5I+MjRr8Lqjy2tIw4a6srzBpTG2QijlLaK wJAcgkKAuG2waF67yObQJSTyl9RMVnhenuiGtqsnwVT9wWfSlwYqUsijEJ2tOSQfV0iw CoHIFreLiUzbeCRdrani9CIhhvZclhBPlGJdDYnnNCAVJ3SCMaQnTVDuNtPwc/O5X5pX ZG0T0G7jN7n7m8RLsu/jNfEPtIMF+gT5Qkx97g7lfLRF4I3rj4T7PWZbNzlhOcwcDHJy mFHk4Luj8W8mQP/G3QVv+Zf6Lq/qsax9F9Q26947Y9SYyLt3oST0adgSf1CVYkgkdvdA 46Aw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=VE3NRW9RFib06UMtW1thQ1ISMIwpqENu25JAe5BbCNc=; b=b9q6Z6rhnt0/4rwjGoauh2XiwqWwUqThzgeeoZ36Tq9+nIzgFm+qt18HMGsmng9XIy YiHGIrqK9z/foffw+nb0Q+I0kdAPNnVLW9MwevH+aChhKrrrD9vGg7p5kNm5XOtskfiZ 20620J0jv+nl8NQeFJUtrSwOniEuyV0U3k9KBeusrfzB8VkKmVXe1byVeZ6Dl6Sw+7Tq 3F1eFExMjuh7Xj27BteXaq0M/cJFcyCVrw/Qp2nIdZZv9rW7rYQZt+ISeuTx5ZMzcnYc Vo5HkuGl6L0E3MJHp4ymM+Km2ECIciNAXDJ1VeQwM5QKvGgQ2Oc+8Ene5gnsC0WaZMQ3 unpQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDSI0tlLuwjDzwQ8SA010wKbD9oQcIGW7w12gAQV/GrvVkZDLAW luMcj/m/nbx/Q8By X-Received: by 10.200.34.109 with SMTP id p42mr19323887qtp.17.1494290496110; Mon, 08 May 2017 17:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from holos.localdomain (pool-173-64-125-158.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net. [173.64.125.158]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n19sm10837540qkn.66.2017.05.08.17.41.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 08 May 2017 17:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by holos.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4AB966ACBD; Mon, 8 May 2017 20:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 20:41:34 -0400 From: Mark Oteiza To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#26796: 26.0.50; (2 characters) is usually wrong Message-ID: <20170509004134.gvcm6ltcuxnzas6r@holos.localdomain> References: <87wp9ukwne.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <831ss2f4pz.fsf@gnu.org> <87efw00wm4.fsf@holos> <83tw4vct9k.fsf@gnu.org> <83d1bjcowz.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83d1bjcowz.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170306 (1.8.0) X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26796 Cc: Glenn Morris , larsi@gnus.org, 26796@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) On 08/05/17 at 07:07pm, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Glenn Morris > > Cc: Mark Oteiza , larsi@gnus.org, 26796@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net > > Date: Mon, 08 May 2017 11:59:52 -0400 > > > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > > >> Was there any reason to implement it in the first place? > > > > > > Seems we are back at the discussion we had starting here: > > > > > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2017-04/msg00219.html > > > > In which, if I read right, literally no-one was in favour of the feature? > > A feature that several people have now spent time debugging, tweaking, > > and documenting, and which will have to be supported going forwards. > > Is this a complaint about something I did? Just wondering. I'm just here to complain that everything stemming from this change, including the bikeshedding about if and how filenames in the message should be quoted (which is just more waste of space) hasn't been reverted yet. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 09 00:37:42 2017 Received: (at 26796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 May 2017 04:37:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60496 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d7wu6-0002CH-Ng for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 May 2017 00:37:42 -0400 Received: from mail-io0-f175.google.com ([209.85.223.175]:35526) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d7wu5-0002By-3T; Tue, 09 May 2017 00:37:41 -0400 Received: by mail-io0-f175.google.com with SMTP id f102so62611692ioi.2; Mon, 08 May 2017 21:37:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=aHwYJXGrka/eRBUcHs+Fz7tBXvSXLYBYYaIUKb2FpmE=; b=YsvpmO/dCnZTIwd5qzHEUnEYbOCmQbLnjLUYIuczE1cUedriMybtJN9LylYraZlo4j 1xeCx42gXF5q817OaJSAtSQC6dslhUPBp0E/2YyLTf8RLW9Vs+klhUUWRyVa4hjefCyD FZqPteeFd0yOTQ2uFM4fPQmGEyDD+NDtm4MJqR/pDxvj/UsJYQTChGRb3N8ev3D7hqYi UPHO10Om5SDKZ7ehw9NuEt9T1lxRKc0JNbqCUWOT6deDBVOEB+x7tmvTQIzzS2lYlN3d eBVcORbt2cg1eDCVgjDxQNixMayz7518cJ4H9EWcobuVDDsFmeyVoleQZzhZHu7HRlYI 6v7Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=aHwYJXGrka/eRBUcHs+Fz7tBXvSXLYBYYaIUKb2FpmE=; b=tUBl3AhToNkOzeZeTtBmYs5cpZvaTPm8XbMqAhyD9Yj6aqsFtbctpcaDqBJuVXSQ2P ENTr/qabrvKxjLQhgplUAb0Loy0z8DhN1fBU/9FH2IEVPoXPoUXB6b5lTI4v1oqlXeGy TFuBXJfzejkLWKTDxurxzb/60oR6NkEYuLkB/1urQMxdiddIMLnJSDHo7wzRPzqizU79 +eAtv8euqk2JMWW47RALw+ebGt7awVMkoEgj6O+8rlTrcF97M1exxZMtKC6MYF32VyUZ DiI/vGMSW9GFZWd9j/idjcWuxWxzdX46cpz+oZ7CNvHl8llqhYWHJWhjZ5c+rg/2w83d Dh/A== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/66kwflMuAv/DZLqToibswCoOivvuhl7/EuyOkj+DOF0+qAgZBU SW5EcQGKu89cEQ== X-Received: by 10.107.133.8 with SMTP id h8mr29934961iod.19.1494304655496; Mon, 08 May 2017 21:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zony ([45.2.7.65]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id m4sm5532114ith.5.2017.05.08.21.37.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 08 May 2017 21:37:34 -0700 (PDT) From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#26796: 26.0.50; (2 characters) is usually wrong References: <87wp9ukwne.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <831ss2f4pz.fsf@gnu.org> <87efw00wm4.fsf@holos> <83tw4vct9k.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 09 May 2017 00:39:06 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Mon, 08 May 2017 11:59:52 -0400") Message-ID: <87ziemk5jp.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26796 Cc: Mark Oteiza , larsi@gnus.org, Eli Zaretskii , 26796@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) unarchive 354 tags 354 = wontfix quit Glenn Morris writes: > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >>> Was there any reason to implement it in the first place? >> >> Seems we are back at the discussion we had starting here: >> >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2017-04/msg00219.html > > In which, if I read right, literally no-one was in favour of the feature? > A feature that several people have now spent time debugging, tweaking, > and documenting, and which will have to be supported going forwards. My only defence is that everyone seemed to think it was a good idea *before* I merged it. In hindsight I should have reverted this much sooner, but anyway, it's done now [1: daaec72a82]. [1: daaec72a82]: 2017-05-08 23:28:32 -0400 Revert "Output number of characters added to file (Bug#354)" http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=daaec72a82e76f916e639acb51a8ad602433e8a9 From unknown Sat Sep 13 23:19:37 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator