From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 23 11:17:22 2017 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2017 15:17:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36605 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d2JGM-000416-2B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:17:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51836) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d2JGK-00040q-5C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:17:20 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d2JGD-0007fe-Hl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:17:14 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:34397) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d2JGD-0007fK-EY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:17:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42802) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d2JGC-0006ka-5a for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:17:13 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d2JG7-0007eT-MA for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:17:12 -0400 Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.27]:45105) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d2JG7-0007eA-C3 for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:17:07 -0400 Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5AA420A50 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web1 ([10.202.2.211]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:17:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=justemail.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:message-id :mime-version:subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm1; bh=8Op+2DvQvLKdURRzBTkx0W8QTbsMkpIhaAQchEElMAA=; b=MJ1CBeMr elc+wndh+lYY5R01yvgJG/0Xhqr70cY/sUzcNgna1gINpw2uojWwERSbtcRLkubY 9mgSLEMyYSfTk8IYHgEdzXoOMPyaNVzwP8WJU7XMJCyR0VR6UdVCt2ZKYM+WcB2y 6KNTQNZSMNv3l4xHx0xItYeT1+K1miSLdRKxfmNiNQQoTxLgAvvZdkvw5LNeN4wC x5rWe7e8K8lCG1FFewygqDhKIVdxQZgduwh7LkQp1aw7tEJiYxkxk62T4EMJzJkd 0Rje1Lpq0Ssn1M1UQE6RIPBTowE07f4CTK/oqn6x9EJqHCHashdjulK4l9dbAf71 HSyT+v6OzBRuKA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=8Op+2DvQvLKdURRzBTkx0W8QTbsMk pIhaAQchEElMAA=; b=RVWKM7ANOGckwgxm5VQsqPGlCYZnO43fiUKr6aqpahE6q maFZCAEbhhbiucqZDOYzHx+CzBKw5YCGcXLUqAWSHBjbJtCFeMU0CYxcStnMrzmV whUIeLVbOq40MUeEjilfd9Ri6eB2ZPvPwZnH3cNPkC16rzdOy0Ud5Ndt4H8Fg70s iCqhEXgCtQrLMK7n4tCvwgjEFZv4FdC0DaGva4VtB9HD/lHWyWSGIVeBXXFeJEmq Kjiqh+XQDyQdWGHy51uZCnkoDmejEKb6g540CmD+clR/pzDixJI530mCTrNAtfvi ov+D/IKnnTg7Bsa5fhSUUHnXsSkO/OrAamdM0zE2A== X-ME-Sender: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id BBBFC942EC; Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1492960626.547066.953379320.7198546B@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Benno Schulenberg To: Coreutils MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - html Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:17:06 +0200 Subject: hint for translators is missing from POT file, but is opaque anyhow X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) Commit 2dab6cd3c2e18eb574b24e54fba86a33c80b6a27 changed the progress messages for dd, but in doing so separated the instruction/hint for translators from the call to ngettext(). For xgettext to pick up such comments, the comment must end of the line directly before the call. So the current POT file for coreutils does not contain this comment/hint/instruction. Second, the comment seems to consist of two parts that appear to be unrelated. So it would be better to split the text into two separate paragraphs. Third, the second part of that comment reads like this: If one of these formats A looks shorter on the screen than another format B, then A's string length should be less than B's, and appending strlen (B) - strlen (A) spaces to A should make it appear to be at least as long as B. I don't understand what it is trying to say. Does it say that if, of those four strings, untranslated string A is shorter than untranslated string B, that then also the translation of string A must be shorter than the translation of string B? If yes, then: 1) please reword, 2) why?, and 3) does the program blow up if not? Or is this part of the comment not meant for translators at all? Fourth, the first part of the comment begins with this: The instances of "s" in the following formats are the SI symbol "s" (meaning second), and should not be translated. Why should they not be translated? In order to avoid problems with grammatical congruence in languages like Polish? But for a language like Dutch I would accept the mild incongruence when the elapsed time is exactly x.1 seconds, which will be a rare occasion. For all other numbers it will be much clearer to say "seconden" instead of just "s". So I would suggest to change this part of the comment to: The instances of "s" in the next four strings are the SI symbol "s" (meaning seconds). It may be preferrable to leave them untranslated, to avoid problems with grammatical congruence. Fifth (and this is the reason I arrived here), when using status=progress, the elapsed time that is printed is shown with four or five decimals. 1) Is the time measurement really this accurate? 2) Sometimes the last one or two or three decimals happen to be zero, and then they get truncated, making the progress message a bit shorter for one second. It would be nicer to use a fixed number of decimals so that the message doesn't unnecessarily "jump". Sixth, the format string uses %g, which means that the number of seconds will be displayed in exponential form when the number becomes very large. Is that intentional? Wouldn't it be better to use %f? I've played a bit with it, and I think %.1f is best, because also the other numbers in the progress message, when they are in decimal form, use a single decimal of precision. Benno -- http://www.fastmail.com - Email service worth paying for. Try it for free From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 24 00:11:45 2017 Received: (at 26621) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2017 04:11:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37031 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d2VLl-000543-73 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 00:11:45 -0400 Received: from midir.magicbluesmoke.com ([82.195.144.46]:56538 helo=mail.magicbluesmoke.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d2VLj-00053v-Fz for 26621@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 00:11:43 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain (mobile-166-170-42-62.mycingular.net [166.170.42.62]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.magicbluesmoke.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2A335139; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 05:11:41 +0100 (IST) Subject: Re: bug#26621: hint for translators is missing from POT file, but is opaque anyhow To: Benno Schulenberg , 26621@debbugs.gnu.org References: <1492960626.547066.953379320.7198546B@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=c3=a1draig_Brady?= Message-ID: <7e1b45e0-e155-141a-2a16-948a321dc185@draigBrady.com> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 21:11:38 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1492960626.547066.953379320.7198546B@webmail.messagingengine.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26621 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On 23/04/17 08:17, Benno Schulenberg wrote: > > Commit 2dab6cd3c2e18eb574b24e54fba86a33c80b6a27 changed > the progress messages for dd, but in doing so separated > the instruction/hint for translators from the call to > ngettext(). For xgettext to pick up such comments, the > comment must end of the line directly before the call. > So the current POT file for coreutils does not contain > this comment/hint/instruction. > > Second, the comment seems to consist of two parts that > appear to be unrelated. So it would be better to split > the text into two separate paragraphs. > > Third, the second part of that comment reads like this: > > If one of > these formats A looks shorter on the screen than another format > B, then A's string length should be less than B's, and appending > strlen (B) - strlen (A) spaces to A should make it appear to be > at least as long as B. > > I don't understand what it is trying to say. Does it say > that if, of those four strings, untranslated string A is > shorter than untranslated string B, that then also the > translation of string A must be shorter than the translation > of string B? If yes, then: 1) please reword, 2) why?, and > 3) does the program blow up if not? Or is this part of the > comment not meant for translators at all? > > Fourth, the first part of the comment begins with this: > > The instances of "s" in the following formats are > the SI symbol "s" (meaning second), and should not be translated. > > Why should they not be translated? In order to avoid problems > with grammatical congruence in languages like Polish? But for > a language like Dutch I would accept the mild incongruence > when the elapsed time is exactly x.1 seconds, which will be > a rare occasion. For all other numbers it will be much clearer > to say "seconden" instead of just "s". So I would suggest to > change this part of the comment to: > > The instances of "s" in the next four strings are the SI > symbol "s" (meaning seconds). It may be preferrable > to leave them untranslated, to avoid problems with > grammatical congruence. > > Fifth (and this is the reason I arrived here), when using > status=progress, the elapsed time that is printed is shown > with four or five decimals. 1) Is the time measurement > really this accurate? 2) Sometimes the last one or two > or three decimals happen to be zero, and then they get > truncated, making the progress message a bit shorter for > one second. It would be nicer to use a fixed number of > decimals so that the message doesn't unnecessarily "jump". > > Sixth, the format string uses %g, which means that the > number of seconds will be displayed in exponential form > when the number becomes very large. Is that intentional? > Wouldn't it be better to use %f? I've played a bit with it, > and I think %.1f is best, because also the other numbers > in the progress message, when they are in decimal form, > use a single decimal of precision. Yes the different width numbers is not great. This jumps around on my system: dd status=progress if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=2M Yes, http://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=coreutils.git;a=commitdiff;h=v8.24-123-g2dab6cd changed from %.6f to %g. You can get some sense of the I/O overhead by looking at the less significant decimal digits, so I find the precision useful. I'll change this back to .6f I think to avoid the jumping, and fix up the TRANSLATOR notes. cheers, Pádraig From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 24 03:38:18 2017 Received: (at 26621) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2017 07:38:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37058 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d2YZe-0001l8-0t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 03:38:18 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:48158) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d2YZb-0001ku-Ef for 26621@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 03:38:16 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81DD716005C; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 00:38:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 3ga73wXd3bw6; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 00:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 734B6160060; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 00:38:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 0xJ5JN9ElRCz; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 00:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.153.188.248]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5183E16005C; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 00:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#26621: hint for translators is missing from POT file, but is opaque anyhow To: Benno Schulenberg , 26621@debbugs.gnu.org References: <1492960626.547066.953379320.7198546B@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <6e8d5028-b050-64d5-2762-9db8652a6e9c@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 00:38:07 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1492960626.547066.953379320.7198546B@webmail.messagingengine.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------0670F0A28FB771667115BF58" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26621 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0670F0A28FB771667115BF58 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Benno Schulenberg wrote: > Fourth, the first part of the comment begins with this: > > The instances of "s" in the following formats are > the SI symbol "s" (meaning second), and should not be translated. > > Why should they not be translated? In order to avoid problems > with grammatical congruence in languages like Polish? Yes. This is part of the SI standard. SI abbreviations are supposed to be= =20 identical in all languages, regardless of grammar issues. > It would be nicer to use a fixed number of > decimals so that the message doesn't unnecessarily "jump". Yes, and since the messages you're talking about are supposed to come out= once a=20 second, dd should just omit everything after the decimal point. > Sixth, the format string uses %g, which means that the > number of seconds will be displayed in exponential form > when the number becomes very large. Is that intentional? Yes, it's been that way since that code was introduced in 2004 (before=20 status=3Dprogress was added). The idea I had back then was that we want m= ore than=20 1 digit when transfer times are short, and that we needn't bother with lo= ts of=20 digits when transfer times are long. I've never heard of a real-world sit= uation=20 where the exponential notation actually gets used (more than 11 days for = the=20 transfer, if I calculate aright) so the issue is to some extent academic. Thanks for your other comments. I installed the attached patch, which I h= ope=20 addresses them. --------------0670F0A28FB771667115BF58 Content-Type: text/x-diff; name="0001-dd-status-progress-outputs-6-s-not-6.00001-s.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-dd-status-progress-outputs-6-s-not-6.00001-s.patch" =46rom fa9510a8bba71fc468694ae81ccdfe45bc1814e3 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Paul Eggert Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 00:06:00 -0700 Subject: [PATCH] dd: status=3Dprogress outputs "6 s", not "6.00001 s" Problem reported by Benno Schulenberg (Bug#26621). * NEWS: Document this. * src/dd.c (print_xfer_stats): With status=3Dprogress, format times with %.0f rather than %g. Improve translator comments. --- NEWS | 4 ++++ src/dd.c | 47 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++-------------- 2 files changed, 37 insertions(+), 14 deletions(-) diff --git a/NEWS b/NEWS index 07cb283..72981b6 100644 --- a/NEWS +++ b/NEWS @@ -4,6 +4,10 @@ GNU coreutils NEWS -*= - outline -*- =20 ** Bug fixes =20 + dd status=3Dprogress now just counts seconds; e.g., it outputs "6 s" + consistently rather than sometimes outputting "6.00001 s". + [bug introduced in coreutils-8.24] + df non longer interacts with excluded file system types, so for exampl= e specifying -x nfs will no longer hang with problematic nfs mounts. [bug introduced in coreutils-8.21] diff --git a/src/dd.c b/src/dd.c index 8ab1efa..119f307 100644 --- a/src/dd.c +++ b/src/dd.c @@ -795,29 +795,48 @@ print_xfer_stats (xtime_t progress_time) if (progress_time) fputc ('\r', stderr); =20 - /* TRANSLATORS: The instances of "s" in the following formats are - the SI symbol "s" (meaning second), and should not be translated. + /* Use full seconds when printing progress, since the progress + report is output once per second and there is little point + displaying any subsecond jitter. Use default precision with %g + otherwise, as this provides more-useful output then. With long + transfers %g can generate a number with an exponent; that is OK. *= / + char delta_s_buf[20]; + snprintf (delta_s_buf, sizeof delta_s_buf, + progress_time ? "%.0f" : "%g", delta_s); + + /* TRANSLATORS: Because SI symbols should be the same in all + languages, the instances of "s" in the following formats, which + are the SI symbol "s" (meaning second), should not be translated. The strings use SI symbols for better internationalization even - though they may be a bit more confusing in English. If one of - these formats A looks shorter on the screen than another format - B, then A's string length should be less than B's, and appending - strlen (B) - strlen (A) spaces to A should make it appear to be - at least as long as B. */ + though they may be a bit more confusing in English. + + These strings should be translated so that a new output line B + completely overwrites an old line A that is already present on + the screen, if (sB < sA ? sA - sB : 0) spaces are appended to B, + where sA =3D=3D strlen (A) and sB =3D=3D strlen (B). For example, = in a + UTF-8 locale where A is "8 bajt=C5=AF zkop=C3=ADrov=C3=A1no, 1 s, 0= kB/s" (32 + columns, strlen 35) and B is "19979567104 bajt=C5=AF (20 GB, 19 GiB= ) + zkop=C3=ADrov=C3=A1no, 2 s, 10.0 GB/s" (61 columns, strlen 64), the= + translation is OK because A looks shorter than B (32 vs 61 + columns) even when no spaces are appended. */ =20 int stats_len =3D (abbreviation_lacks_prefix (si) ? fprintf (stderr, - ngettext ("%"PRIuMAX" byte copied, %g s, %s/s", - "%"PRIuMAX" bytes copied, %g s, %s/s", + /* TRANSLATORS: See comments in dd.c's print_xfer_stat= s. */ + ngettext ("%"PRIuMAX" byte copied, %s s, %s/s", + "%"PRIuMAX" bytes copied, %s s, %s/s", select_plural (w_bytes)), - w_bytes, delta_s, bytes_per_second) + w_bytes, delta_s_buf, bytes_per_second) : abbreviation_lacks_prefix (iec) ? fprintf (stderr, - _("%"PRIuMAX" bytes (%s) copied, %g s, %s/s"), - w_bytes, si, delta_s, bytes_per_second) + /* TRANSLATORS: See comments in dd.c's print_xfer_stat= s. */ + _("%"PRIuMAX" bytes (%s) copied, %s s, %s/s"), + w_bytes, si, delta_s_buf, bytes_per_second) : fprintf (stderr, - _("%"PRIuMAX" bytes (%s, %s) copied, %g s, %s/s"), - w_bytes, si, iec, delta_s, bytes_per_second)); + /* TRANSLATORS: See comments in dd.c's print_xfer_stat= s. */ + _("%"PRIuMAX" bytes (%s, %s) copied, %s s, %s/s"), + w_bytes, si, iec, delta_s_buf, bytes_per_second)); =20 if (progress_time) { --=20 2.7.4 --------------0670F0A28FB771667115BF58-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 24 11:23:35 2017 Received: (at 26621) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2017 15:23:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38163 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d2fpv-0001Zn-HJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:23:35 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.187]:60944) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d2fpt-0001ZX-7L for 26621@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:23:33 -0400 Received: from [10.0.2.15] ([62.153.148.194]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue001 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MLnvv-1d2Oyx3vXv-000ps2; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:23:13 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#26621: hint for translators is missing from POT file, but is opaque anyhow To: Paul Eggert , Benno Schulenberg , 26621@debbugs.gnu.org References: <1492960626.547066.953379320.7198546B@webmail.messagingengine.com> <6e8d5028-b050-64d5-2762-9db8652a6e9c@cs.ucla.edu> From: Bernhard Voelker Message-ID: <06f437c6-bfb9-5eda-f647-67e9b97d00cc@bernhard-voelker.de> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:23:10 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6e8d5028-b050-64d5-2762-9db8652a6e9c@cs.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:wP5AsrrQ9p9AjWkd7LSxb5R4+p7PEhuKz4FaWJb/wlGdr4pLeTE VjIrqTj1kV4CWP+n98P7q2PnsArrc1VmykSQ+65XnIKU21Si+lzkQ89Mlb7Dt9LW0l7ZzmG B3jHcdXQWmN1Qc/cnLEavkGGu6AfFQK6IUvlPqVVHrPxUS16bPRFvhSt/T95/4rynYfQ0J8 bU19hiSdm4qKuuKQEByCA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:cc2c11PRwAM=:btzdcTvfH9iFMMfnZvJgH3 DNWNxOLmGcbByhGcPjThS4i7GTqd96hn3iYzkD6TnuX6sjx9PXhrDccaAJFZV32V3zKOLN7PX kGrBDXkTLWqS7/fF3u+0W7Hhicbk/Y5cLalOd9zjarR4yVkf9ZUYxElcfbGo8phW4GT+DMA0n 09LfG/Dcmx8eEoiaNKAbmPHMzLynrBpQp/8UzFvNjtmOvfnxfmCkFk9Y7xg5zz2eB53ZvpPRc c65fdk7xy0fJF8rSf4f5Aj91aDbQTn2HJs7Pt/ljeeivjKUle9/e6MVRVqicElGyoLP0hYL2o x/OeH/KdI/BRCLSGnrmE5q4tR+US256V01P3RmOdvPKEvEEsBYhtHG+24SMA7sD8gJN1lTU6Y +mEOUyHX3f5irp2aCFY/zTQHpWsSZpCEXeYH7Q+h8G4BC9tm8zWU53eQa7Kb5QMlMdPNBjAwi tAccJUhN29We8PhMy5f5VOnpvaMXYTD2WL5XXYGgSpMJnRu/IeJa3SfgTyCHuSvwd3LDcBwDw MfUrXFCsqUK5Wtbk4+FsyS5dV3ZKRUVpa89df7y/HCXNRUZIsurJUbFxpZEaZJI9FlN3dZqAI QKFHMwQH/YFy9B0ItxaiVciDvOYDHe26zvpL5heDI9+JKsFhnABPaSEmvtkQrcuohOi1FAmvK i8xPzq55w7TzjqBItc2KDRde4Oc8XwexFJ2LZNUKWNX50c26Ns59OOzFxqL07q9LBSeM7rUFx MrH3K+Ln2+VCtaZF X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26621 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) On 04/24/2017 09:38 AM, Paul Eggert wrote: > Yes, and since the messages you're talking about are supposed to come out > once a second, dd should just omit everything after the decimal point. Not quite - you can still get them with 'kill -USR1 $pid'. Have a nice day, Berny From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 24 13:15:33 2017 Received: (at 26621) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2017 17:15:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38221 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d2haH-0007j2-02 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:15:33 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:58392) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d2haF-0007ip-MA for 26621@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:15:32 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A711E16005C; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:15:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id MzhkTI302gpJ; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:15:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFDC416008E; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:15:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 9RH53pas5mcW; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:15:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 813E116005C; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:15:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#26621: hint for translators is missing from POT file, but is opaque anyhow To: Bernhard Voelker , Benno Schulenberg , 26621@debbugs.gnu.org References: <1492960626.547066.953379320.7198546B@webmail.messagingengine.com> <6e8d5028-b050-64d5-2762-9db8652a6e9c@cs.ucla.edu> <06f437c6-bfb9-5eda-f647-67e9b97d00cc@bernhard-voelker.de> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <975399c2-6532-65d5-ff71-e710cc48c37b@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:15:23 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <06f437c6-bfb9-5eda-f647-67e9b97d00cc@bernhard-voelker.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26621 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 04/24/2017 08:23 AM, Bernhard Voelker wrote: >> Yes, and since the messages you're talking about are supposed to come out >> once a second, dd should just omit everything after the decimal point. > Not quite - you can still get them with 'kill -USR1 $pid'. In current master "kill -USR" messages use %g, as the signal might arrive at any time. %.0f is used only by ordinary status=progress messages, which are as close to the 1-second boundaries as can be arranged. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 24 15:57:11 2017 Received: (at 26621) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2017 19:57:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38317 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d2k6h-0002ys-MA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:57:11 -0400 Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.28]:39861) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d2k6g-0002yk-0J for 26621@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:57:10 -0400 Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 557ED212BB; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:57:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web1 ([10.202.2.211]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:57:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=justemail.net; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=RKT2U6UHFnfTSAGV3 QIKkupVrAbmQMtDmr/PHEUhx+E=; b=YamxoczEGCrFwYs6PHV1ggRSAdehIZhnK C+az5cjSECAuY+WWzMhd2gR0MozySfRLchlC0heyTioWUweXbgKrFfQHBr10tfPo WvYOAGnNpTPq76UgMnvL7z/qNCBqpwgiChi7UF+08CszODzdF8E9q/2npvvD44PD 3VYvE2r32Dw1niCMMleVRnzBe/WhwRKnWCrjWtADKAcg5q52JMUt/kOiqHKaGEng IZsX6vmpEKEb8+LzGZpmt4Xh9XNALQi+AG37mGxmS69gn7jl/GopjX+7lVB+gVCK XjhbYsOXq3cdWSqRU3NHrhixiZBFITu6ADbYDOAQij4xSmC/xWOaA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=RKT2U6 UHFnfTSAGV3QIKkupVrAbmQMtDmr/PHEUhx+E=; b=iUPz/2ZWSPP2tvNdQ+9DrJ fw3SakYjxDPNLS0l93yexMEDwzjGIymq25qB4IZqE7Al488sdaC4CWXgH5mev0sM OrC/ZEgVif+3DKdHiCGAua8DNmUd3oWfN0aiim9aKQ0Jm8tfHI8X1rc1wWMvp6Fd TwDi7QqY8b9TBJRh7WTKRn6LNawzcFS7gYAGcn2KXqUWFQHbowMB0WONgBrD5V9d IACmYvo8BFDxbKluRo+WluHiLgR5KNzQb8EetbyFaD0IpaZTEi4QKhO1UDtXnS5H sxeFKxYkF15hdOMF8EzOzVALWXggfA7Jqe2pkLl48miKk48gAjjPhBkUuwYQS3/g == X-ME-Sender: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 36D889432A; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:57:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1493063828.3552111.954761584.5BEAF85C@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Benno Schulenberg To: Paul Eggert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - html Subject: Re: bug#26621: hint for translators is missing from POT file, but is opaque anyhow In-Reply-To: <6e8d5028-b050-64d5-2762-9db8652a6e9c@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 21:57:08 +0200 References: <1492960626.547066.953379320.7198546B@webmail.messagingengine.com> <6e8d5028-b050-64d5-2762-9db8652a6e9c@cs.ucla.edu> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26621 Cc: 26621@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, at 09:38, Paul Eggert wrote: > Benno Schulenberg wrote: > > It would be nicer to use a fixed number of > > decimals so that the message doesn't unnecessarily "jump". > > Yes, and since the messages you're talking about are supposed to come out once a > second, dd should just omit everything after the decimal point. Well, in the past week I have been writing several ISO images to a USB stick, and dd's progress messages first come out at about 1.1 second intervals, then slow down to about every four or five seconds, and after about a minute start to arrive again at close to every 1.0 seconds. (Also, when dd is done copying records, the USB stick isn't ready yet: it continuous blinking for nearly a minute, but dd sits there as if nothing is happening. I don't know if this is feasible, but it would be nice if dd would continue to count up the seconds, and slowly reduce the transfer rate.) > Thanks for your other comments. I installed the attached patch, which I hope > addresses them. Okay. If I understand the new comment well, I would have written: /* TRANSLATORS: The translations of the next three msgids should be of ascending length. That is: each subsequent msgstr should be longer than the preceding one. */ Benno -- http://www.fastmail.com - Or how I learned to stop worrying and love email again From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 24 21:20:28 2017 Received: (at 26621) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Apr 2017 01:20:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38659 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d2p9X-00027t-VD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 21:20:28 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:52090) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d2p9V-00027g-Nf for 26621@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 21:20:26 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D157160060; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 18:20:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id y1-JSk7b5lLm; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 18:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A8A0160062; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 18:20:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id xxdd8BsvqON8; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 18:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 28E7D160060; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 18:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#26621: hint for translators is missing from POT file, but is opaque anyhow To: Benno Schulenberg References: <1492960626.547066.953379320.7198546B@webmail.messagingengine.com> <6e8d5028-b050-64d5-2762-9db8652a6e9c@cs.ucla.edu> <1493063828.3552111.954761584.5BEAF85C@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <8a048356-fe3f-fe07-4487-63105fd1bbaa@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 18:20:18 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1493063828.3552111.954761584.5BEAF85C@webmail.messagingengine.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26621 Cc: 26621@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 04/24/2017 12:57 PM, Benno Schulenberg wrote: > Well, in the past week I have been writing several ISO images > to a USB stick, and dd's progress messages first come out at > about 1.1 second intervals, then slow down to about every four > or five seconds, and after about a minute start to arrive again > at close to every 1.0 seconds. Although that's annoying, I don't offhand see an easy way to fix that (a single write that takes a very long time, e.g., more than a second), and if the timestamps are that coarse then 1 s resolution is not so bad anyway. > (Also, when dd is done copying records, the USB stick isn't > ready yet: You might need to use 'eject' on the stick before unplugging it. Perhaps dd should have an option to eject the output when done? > /* TRANSLATORS: The translations of the next three msgids should > be of ascending length. That is: each subsequent msgstr should be > longer than the preceding one. */ That's not technically correct, as the msgstr length itself is not directly relevant; what matters are the numbers of bytes and columns in the formatted output. One could have a short msgstr that formats to a long output. It's the number of bytes and columns in the formatted output that matters, not the number of bytes and columns in the msgstr. To some extent this translator note is pedantic, as translations are quite likely to have the desired property even if translators don't know about the issue. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 27 13:41:16 2017 Received: (at 26621) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2017 17:41:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43141 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d3nPo-0006r5-6G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:41:16 -0400 Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.28]:35323) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d3nPl-0006qv-HF for 26621@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:41:14 -0400 Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B8920C9D; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web1 ([10.202.2.211]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:41:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=justemail.net; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=FdLtIxjaHivL/5Cei 8bHhUBLREc8U9cmjgE9L4pWIZg=; b=TabvXFpDKt5nSdH7YoYdjqKGMR44cR0JH VMLYqzqL8yVSzaKLyhlbSKTfr9jLPSTjU5MNUZJotYcm2wlVqOdzackY+ZtFxXvc pkVwvF3EJlUvvDR8Y4/mi6t/a1QkJc1TZ/uRLR+AA4x/mk4dv2aDT/DPceSU22za 4qQcuFiotFZ469KNfg5JhDVVpBZ7qUNnF2W9bjJoQ47H0/JlWnZEmkUCYVdHERHA fKt6sPE6EMYbwT05zb7Jk1y9V5bU9J33geOSMRvi5wccDIIsWA7Y5EBBlQv5d0XC FWjX25QVyfKGQj3pcWQdKyX0wPGEFVKxPXp95QYmFfy3j3bWrhF6A== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=FdLtIx jaHivL/5Cei8bHhUBLREc8U9cmjgE9L4pWIZg=; b=CwBODT2I6PfVEreYCZeXZC yj+yakSpNceyjxtA+eLBC9Ml5SGJGoCtUj5qt8SXDmW56AbDJ1SdGOdjYmpsd8NJ XuC4q6Ynr8GB8I0bU9s1Eg+fUJXJoPexZYtdga/pW7eCKTt/HSvCMQ1nO454uuPX xUmdJLJh9n1HVoLUehuMFgAiWn0aKXZLdbUV8ePuogrj3qAwO9cJp9qZIyaQj6be TROVGpSM7D8EqJ5m/DQunUoazGdJUNi+ELtonOLzl+XVsVixauXjMi7OFAN/ZcuS lgKCtiFLUJLv97PXG325cUo+QJVNhs4p1/kQrTZdh7l2NgVWvDDz+OJa2Rh/YUrA == X-ME-Sender: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id D2A3194372; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1493314872.648344.958416624.0AF0B348@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Benno Schulenberg To: Paul Eggert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - html References: <1492960626.547066.953379320.7198546B@webmail.messagingengine.com> <6e8d5028-b050-64d5-2762-9db8652a6e9c@cs.ucla.edu> <1493063828.3552111.954761584.5BEAF85C@webmail.messagingengine.com> <8a048356-fe3f-fe07-4487-63105fd1bbaa@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 19:41:12 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#26621: hint for translators is missing from POT file, but is opaque anyhow In-Reply-To: <8a048356-fe3f-fe07-4487-63105fd1bbaa@cs.ucla.edu> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26621 Cc: 26621@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Tue, Apr 25, 2017, at 03:20, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 04/24/2017 12:57 PM, Benno Schulenberg wrote: > > (Also, when dd is done copying records, the USB stick isn't > > ready yet: > > You might need to use 'eject' on the stick before unplugging it. Perhaps > dd should have an option to eject the output when done? That might be useful, but in practice I don't need it: as soon as dd actually exits, my system detects that something new has appeared on its USB port and automatically mounts it and opens a file browser there. I check that the stick now contains what I expected to see, and then click unmount in the file browser. > > /* TRANSLATORS: The translations of the next three msgids should > > be of ascending length. That is: each subsequent msgstr should be > > longer than the preceding one. */ > > That's not technically correct, as the msgstr length itself is not > directly relevant; what matters are the numbers of bytes and columns in > the formatted output. But how is a translator supposed to know exactly which numbers can occur with what msgstr? The translator is not going to change the PRIuMAX, and all the other things are %s. What length can they have? The translator is not going to analyze the whole program. And he shouldn't need to. It should be the program's responsibility to present its output in a way that it can't get messed up. > To some extent this translator note is pedantic, as translations are > quite likely to have the desired property If the note is pedantic, then please leave it out. Such notes are meant to clarify things, so that the translator doesn't need to look at the code in order to understand what a message means or in what context it occurs. If all the note says is to look at a comment in the code, this is annoying. And as that comment is incomprehensible, it is useless. But, since now the normal progress message contains the time with a whole-second resolution, I suggest to split up the message again and to properly pluralize it. Depending on the prefix: ngettext ("%"PRIuMAX" byte copied", "%"PRIuMAX" bytes copied", select_plural (w_bytes), ...); OR ngettext ("%"PRIuMAX" byte (%s) copied", "%"PRIuMAX" bytes (%s) copied", select_plural (w_bytes), ...); OR ngettext ("%"PRIuMAX" byte (%s = %s) copied", "%"PRIuMAX" bytes (%s = %s) copied", select_plural (w_bytes), ...); followed by ngettext (" in %.0f second -- %s/s", " in %.0f seconds -- %s/s", select_plural (time_in_second_resolution), ...); If the entirety of that output can have a varying width that sometimes gets shorter than it was before, then dd should first print that output to a string, record its longest length, and then always fill up the string with spaces to that length. dd should do the work, not the translator. Benno -- http://www.fastmail.com - Access all of your messages and folders wherever you are From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 27 17:57:39 2017 Received: (at 26621) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2017 21:57:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43328 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d3rPv-0006JE-50 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 17:57:39 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:54028) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d3rPs-0006J1-Mb for 26621@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 17:57:37 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C87D016006C; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id M8zwbnz4PIlW; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC866160076; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:57:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id K1hMOz-gpTBx; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 65F1116006C; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#26621: hint for translators is missing from POT file, but is opaque anyhow To: Benno Schulenberg References: <1492960626.547066.953379320.7198546B@webmail.messagingengine.com> <6e8d5028-b050-64d5-2762-9db8652a6e9c@cs.ucla.edu> <1493063828.3552111.954761584.5BEAF85C@webmail.messagingengine.com> <8a048356-fe3f-fe07-4487-63105fd1bbaa@cs.ucla.edu> <1493314872.648344.958416624.0AF0B348@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:57:28 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1493314872.648344.958416624.0AF0B348@webmail.messagingengine.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------74B695E92553369487650DBA" Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26621 Cc: 26621@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------74B695E92553369487650DBA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 04/27/2017 10:41 AM, Benno Schulenberg wrote: > If the note is pedantic, then please leave it out. OK, done in the attached. > I suggest to split up the message again and to properly pluralize it. That would make it harder to translate, no? The idea was to simplify the translator's jobs by using SI units. Instead, how about if we remove the units from the string to be translated? That way, translators won't need to worry about whether to translate the units. Plus, there won't be any change to the output format in the C locale. I did that in the attached. > If the entirety of that output can have a varying width > that sometimes gets shorter than it was before, then dd > should first print that output to a string, record its > longest length, and then always fill up the string with > spaces to that length. dd already does that. This approach does not work in general, though, due to the difference between strlen and column counts. 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[184.68.105.38]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id i2-v6sm18662482pgq.35.2018.10.28.20.07.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 28 Oct 2018 20:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#26621: hint for translators is missing from POT file, but is opaque anyhow To: 26621@debbugs.gnu.org References: <1492960626.547066.953379320.7198546B@webmail.messagingengine.com> <6e8d5028-b050-64d5-2762-9db8652a6e9c@cs.ucla.edu> <1493063828.3552111.954761584.5BEAF85C@webmail.messagingengine.com> <8a048356-fe3f-fe07-4487-63105fd1bbaa@cs.ucla.edu> <1493314872.648344.958416624.0AF0B348@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Assaf Gordon Message-ID: <39582840-3c93-721c-52b4-673b699402d0@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 21:07:29 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26621 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 26621 fixed close 26621 stop (triaging old bugs) Pushed here: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/commit/?id=7ea15a57c7a8b876daa3d4d01f1192af3f58f3c7 https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/commit/?id=d1f5616b2d9b851298f377ae7888b2d718802140 So closing as "fixed". -assaf From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:30:16 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2018 12:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator