From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 29 11:04:04 2017 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Mar 2017 15:04:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51465 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ctF8l-0005AM-Rk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:04:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58043) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ctF8k-00059l-0a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:04:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ctF8e-0004zv-46 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:03:56 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:54022) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ctF8e-0004zp-1R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:03:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48977) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ctF8c-0006Dm-PF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:03:55 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ctF8V-0004x7-At for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:03:54 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:40016) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ctF8V-0004wq-2P for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:03:47 -0400 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v2TF3jKu012611 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2017 15:03:45 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v2TF3jma026342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2017 15:03:45 GMT Received: from abhmp0007.oracle.com (abhmp0007.oracle.com [141.146.116.13]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v2TF3j9c026065 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2017 15:03:45 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8cad00f7-f86e-4d12-ad36-05214708aff1@default> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 08:03:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.5; `define-derived-mode': different signatures for doc string & manual X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) The signature is ultimately the same but it is documented differently. It would be better to use the same signature spec for both, unless there is a good reason not to. In the manual it is declared as being: define-derived-mode variant parent name docstring keyword-args=E2=80=A6 bo= dy=E2=80=A6 In the doc string it is declared as being: (define-derived-mode CHILD PARENT NAME &optional DOCSTRING &rest BODY) No KEYWORD-ARGS. They are included in BODY, so the specifications of BODY differ between the two. The doc string says: "BODY can start with a bunch of keyword arguments." What's a "bunch" here? Any number? Not very clear. For both doc string and manual: Can any of the keyword args be repeated? Can you, for example, use :group more than once, to specify belonging to multiple groups? If not, and if a keyword arg is present more than once, which one gets used? Or is an error raised? The treatment of keyword args is not well specified. In the doc string, this expression is not good: "On a more complicated level". Unclear, misleading, unhelpful. (On the plus sign, this doc string xrefs the node in the manual.) The manual also says this: "Only the (still experimental and unadvertised) command =E2=80=98customize-= mode=E2=80=99 currently uses this [the customization group]." The "still experimental and unadvertised" part is inappropriate, IMHO. And by including it we've just advertised it! It is unclear what this statement is trying to convey to users, and why. In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2015-04-11 on LEG570 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D3D/c/usr --host=3D3Di686-pc-mingw32' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 26 07:04:19 2019 Received: (at 26301) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2019 11:04:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40955 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hqy1L-0007XT-5d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 07:04:19 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:59746) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hqy1I-0007XI-VU for 26301@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 07:04:17 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hqy1D-0005fn-Vs; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 13:04:14 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#26301: 24.5; `define-derived-mode': different signatures for doc string & manual References: <8cad00f7-f86e-4d12-ad36-05214708aff1@default> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 13:04:11 +0200 In-Reply-To: <8cad00f7-f86e-4d12-ad36-05214708aff1@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 29 Mar 2017 08:03:43 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <8736itnjkk.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > The signature is ultimately the same but it is documented differently. > It would be better to use the same signature spec for both, unless > there is a good reason not to. > > In the manual it is d [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26301 Cc: 26301@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > The signature is ultimately the same but it is documented differently. > It would be better to use the same signature spec for both, unless > there is a good reason not to. > > In the manual it is declared as being: > > define-derived-mode variant parent name docstring keyword-args=E2=80=A6 = body=E2=80=A6 > > In the doc string it is declared as being: > > (define-derived-mode CHILD PARENT NAME &optional DOCSTRING &rest BODY) > > No KEYWORD-ARGS. They are included in BODY, so the specifications of > BODY differ between the two. I guess the manual here try to describe the conceptual semantics (i.e., that if you put keywords there, they'll be interpreted as such), while the doc string doesn't lie about what goes where. Because the calling convention is automatically generated there, which makes pretending a bit more difficult. I don't think describing it both ways is very confusing. > The doc string says: "BODY can start with a bunch of keyword arguments." > What's a "bunch" here? Any number? Not very clear. I've now rewritten to avoid the amusing word. > For both doc string and manual: Can any of the keyword args be repeated? > Can you, for example, use :group more than once, to specify belonging to > multiple groups? If not, and if a keyword arg is present more than once, > which one gets used? Or is an error raised? The treatment of keyword > args is not well specified. I don't think any of those questions are reasonable, so saying something about that would be confusing. > In the doc string, this expression is not good: "On a more complicated > level". Unclear, misleading, unhelpful. "As a more complex example" is perhaps better. > (On the plus sign, this doc string xrefs the node in the manual.) > > The manual also says this: > > "Only the (still experimental and unadvertised) command =E2=80=98customiz= e-mode=E2=80=99 > currently uses this [the customization group]." > > The "still experimental and unadvertised" part is inappropriate, IMHO. > And by including it we've just advertised it! It is unclear what this > statement is trying to convey to users, and why. I can't find the string "experimental" in that node in the manual, so I guess this has been fixed. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 26 07:04:25 2019 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2019 11:04:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40958 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hqy1R-0007Xm-Fv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 07:04:25 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:59760) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hqy1P-0007Xc-0u for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 07:04:23 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hqy1L-0005fu-Eq for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 13:04:21 +0200 Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 13:04:19 +0200 Message-Id: <871rydnjkc.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #26301 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 26301 fixed close 26301 27.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 26301 fixed close 26301 27.1 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 26 10:50:48 2019 Received: (at 26301) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2019 14:50:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43146 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hr1YW-0000vy-J8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 10:50:48 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:60968) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hr1YV-0000vl-91 for 26301@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 10:50:47 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6QEmM7u136973; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 14:50:40 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=jFfU+lXcPJXLqczBJ0zMthRrxoffja1MFxGIn8t39RI=; b=F4fiIk5PqzjF7U5Mh4qoQW0tffsOWeafxZK6RF6ilbM8aaCCsx9g39fEgG7P3bHoVjDM ylTkTK+WLVAj9vXQOlm5gIsHRFV+7gJhZovG/PRvm3AytIpAz1Cm1HHihlmhrjQrf6BL u5mUT3fb78Iq21WIfuLdao/XDRXS5iF/Kz8rVb96eK9sBwggQ2I8Vk11I14ylNCIGmm8 tnod/XLzW+fuv20vcEplCAe7yuLkg8wfEbR8M++r3xsElQ2vFBL3mkvI/cwRFMEZX1xS YHAM1YddA5q+VEPIxEwTu85k10aNzMOH9ZQzhCQ8s/Nwgl6nszrKTZo0GHUD/09Nv5GV LQ== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2tx61canyx-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 26 Jul 2019 14:50:40 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6QElY2s015385; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 14:50:39 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2tx60yg557-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 26 Jul 2019 14:50:39 +0000 Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x6QEocAX013634; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 14:50:38 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <45b0c967-edca-4ffa-b854-859965486828@default> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 07:50:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: bug#26301: 24.5; `define-derived-mode': different signatures for doc string & manual References: <8cad00f7-f86e-4d12-ad36-05214708aff1@default> <8736itnjkk.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <8736itnjkk.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9330 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1907260182 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9330 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1907260182 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26301 Cc: 26301@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > No KEYWORD-ARGS. They are included in BODY, so the specifications of > > BODY differ between the two. >=20 > I guess the manual here try to describe the conceptual semantics (i.e., > that if you put keywords there, they'll be interpreted as such), while > the doc string doesn't lie about what goes where. Because the calling > convention is automatically generated there, which makes pretending a > bit more difficult. "The doc string doesn't lie." Is that the best we can say for it? Why gratuitously introduce a mismatch between the two? That just makes things harder for users, no? I don't know what you're saying by your last sentence, in particular this: " which makes pretending a bit more difficult." No idea what pretending you mean. What's the reason we wouldn't want KEYWORD-ARGS described in the doc string? =20 > I don't think describing it both ways is very confusing. Why should it be confusing at all? Is plain confusing OK but very confusing not OK? It might be OK if there were a good reason for it, but I haven't seen that yet. > > The treatment of keyword args is not well specified. >=20 > I don't think any of those questions are reasonable, Why? What's unreasonable about wanting to know whether you can specify multiple :group entries, as you can do with defcustom, for instance? We specifically provide such info for `defcustom' (elisp) `Common Keywords', under `:group': If you use this keyword more than once, you can put a single item into more than one group. `define-minor-mode' generates defcustom forms. Its doc should at least say that KEYWORD-ARGS can be any list of keyword entries acceptable to defcustom, and then point to the defcustom doc (where we say that you can use multiple :group's to add an option to multiple groups. > so saying something about that would be confusing. Do you think our saying it for defcustom is confusing also? Why should it be confusing here? That's exactly what KEYWORD-ARGS specifies: defcustom keyword entries. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 26 10:54:40 2019 Received: (at 26301) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2019 14:54:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43153 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hr1cG-000127-7P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 10:54:40 -0400 Received: from mail-io1-f53.google.com ([209.85.166.53]:35072) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hr1cE-00011u-Ax for 26301@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 10:54:38 -0400 Received: by mail-io1-f53.google.com with SMTP id m24so105400877ioo.2 for <26301@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 07:54:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZCOqMhDJdFNJRi4PriQKQqYyet4gAr+JctxzeoSjnJA=; b=nVP4ZE5iA3CbPGaaXLiY0PDsKnAE62qz9iH9xRyVTvyjwhpFW0B7EiNWwKvI887i5E XoqAbGn/1bET7J+tQn5jY2ZCJlOjWczLTM/s3LEIPP/1klTojGOWXqo7wP5Trxfm5OlC MV1ZT6cSsqmAjFtmt0W/0N1213dJfpYmx0bOZSPYNXXiT0XFYrWJSVyPLrRjsM4MC7C5 gV9E0STS3wkv79RjZF4RXu3foQvI/0QEG56ch8yJSBEa+TDKQygRyrCD5/s2x8xyP7Um SEbTo3PBhyq9iSpNLXLuplcpIPbxb6a7pLgXCT9T1W6mJdYVA733Brs74IJ/mgOqVt/q VXDg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZCOqMhDJdFNJRi4PriQKQqYyet4gAr+JctxzeoSjnJA=; b=Kla0/z2N1//zaLkb+NqkrVQUQDLrPX2rPyKIWdM4sw/VdE4TbPaDkw5Ddr679CquS0 vm1ANIeJUURyVPvMToaFGBWwgw89BFf7eOwoHiQ2eC0QRR+cBW2dqV/OkK8Ae+nmUvXB MGQLPefG6mywn8AguVSShxBq4DyRW4wEjh1Drp4SFNUeieyRz0/eWePeKsBI5y9HssKe /BGzKZqRQt+o2IEfN4V2lmX37lc1sSXnXPMxWnV01DzwR0V8gpyStZZYTIC/4G9HjF7j zKx+Kz0wLgmjIrsYK5j37u0e9CeA/Mtt9SahnNXfRoLYaB15BvlOfuukcRVjWLpUSTb/ DqFQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWf9uwgKsamTfOREfVXzxu4BGI3boU0fsRuU/K933NSKKa1h+uI pvZicD1xCY/gTGeoNBvjY27S1Ads X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyAsAY95sBeV9gGBgw5Vl0wp0lFAcOSzsEObfDoZPQcyqcdOGAhNz6I0lAIpuXMoeMhkXYt8A== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:96d8:: with SMTP id r24mr26069265iol.269.1564152872448; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 07:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost2 (CPE001143542e1f-CMf81d0f809fa0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.230.51.196]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y17sm40769255ioa.40.2019.07.26.07.54.31 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Fri, 26 Jul 2019 07:54:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Postavsky To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#26301: 24.5; `define-derived-mode': different signatures for doc string & manual References: <8cad00f7-f86e-4d12-ad36-05214708aff1@default> <8736itnjkk.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 10:54:31 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8736itnjkk.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Fri, 26 Jul 2019 13:04:11 +0200") Message-ID: <855znokfrs.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1.92 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26301 Cc: 26301@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Drew Adams writes: > >> The signature is ultimately the same but it is documented differently. >> It would be better to use the same signature spec for both, unless >> there is a good reason not to. >> >> In the manual it is declared as being: >> >> define-derived-mode variant parent name docstring keyword-args=A1=AD bo= dy=A1=AD >> >> In the doc string it is declared as being: >> >> (define-derived-mode CHILD PARENT NAME &optional DOCSTRING &rest BODY) >> >> No KEYWORD-ARGS. They are included in BODY, so the specifications of >> BODY differ between the two. > > I guess the manual here try to describe the conceptual semantics (i.e., > that if you put keywords there, they'll be interpreted as such), while > the doc string doesn't lie about what goes where. Because the calling > convention is automatically generated there, which makes pretending a > bit more difficult. Docstrings can override the automatically generated signature by using (fn ...) So maybe we should do that here? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 26 11:08:41 2019 Received: (at 26301) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2019 15:08:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43166 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hr1pp-0001P2-6X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 11:08:41 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:38428) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hr1pm-0001Ot-S8 for 26301@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 11:08:40 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=stories) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hr1pj-0001KP-Oq; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 17:08:38 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Noam Postavsky Subject: Re: bug#26301: 24.5; `define-derived-mode': different signatures for doc string & manual References: <8cad00f7-f86e-4d12-ad36-05214708aff1@default> <8736itnjkk.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <855znokfrs.fsf@gmail.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAFVBMVEV9fHzi4uL///u3t7b/ ///+//78/PvevnlQAAACVUlEQVQ4jaWTwZLbIAyGxUB8hoH6ATrtXYy8PuNF5txtk5ztMfb7P0Ll TeIme61mDMYfSD+SDMxzmOfKwbm2LXMvayfGwKyVp7goRRQtWi5a967dwYmWRZdGkY9/WmS2YJh3 YLW1qRpFLuY4VbZB3YBWiVIwKlLNiCtPutkBxTkkOVEXHY0ncm9XkfIJ1lViyGuzdIsI2PbPAiLT bmcBmqdeIt1Be9ctsaBbsNn4ZnCfs5wKnEHzF1DkVOUc1QHmrd22tWwyOTe71j2CE6FIEU8RRSzJ EO7Aex+jPOTbdpfhwr8TSPtmCqXydsTY1m2369xf69AxAaiV3219qOJBc1fMCLZ46LF/yC3VYhfZ ZLTO6iUc9ygItfN8Sh+NJrK3Qn3aiLoiKCRDzIniAWKZtWLSZFLl9JSSKSIGXkzuBsNpdgeQSku5 synSA5z04UrWH15Xnrsv2ZUewDlWX/H8ud4Y9qS1rEl6RpwDmkEPsqsCYMdN7k5FJl6pNXqSatkz 5B61sdyMhuUeqYWQ7S9GiWE1ddqROJK+TRkBfCogIJscNGreYzClSa6UFytgqqmcfOWmGB5OPvFg BsxnGBvRsndxzB2jBh1KU1QOUCQR9ZsAJyp5oViljoHHIyW7eUlBsPvwAgpAh0DQDKKb4XyAQV0b BZAZW6jPJwYYlCHKsmPSL67i5KNpcs3i8xmMOqZpM1lyvSh+VhU5KQz5jCr1L2ByTn6/DKSweQED KelFud30xi/g2cb/B+N9fr+BcbzIePkhHy7juGfpege/vz/scrn8lOf6F3gC+QRbcF0OAAAAAElF TkSuQmCC Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 17:08:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: <855znokfrs.fsf@gmail.com> (Noam Postavsky's message of "Fri, 26 Jul 2019 10:54:31 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Noam Postavsky writes: > Docstrings can override the automatically generated signature by using > > (fn ...) > > So maybe we should do that here? Hm... didn't think about that. I guess that makes sense? We'd say Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26301 Cc: 26301@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Noam Postavsky writes: > Docstrings can override the automatically generated signature by using > > (fn ...) > > So maybe we should do that here? Hm... didn't think about that. I guess that makes sense? We'd say (fn ... &rest KEYWORDS &body body) or something? (Slightly Common Lispish.) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 26 11:38:23 2019 Received: (at 26301) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2019 15:38:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43208 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hr2IY-0004K6-Pl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 11:38:22 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:38756) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hr2IW-0004Jm-1Z for 26301@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 11:38:20 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6QFSYdN023619; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:38:14 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=r3sXUmRnNayZ1H8dJAX+d9vcnPU670jJITCfrR7ZXUc=; b=UdpYpow5vA6YKS9GL7vythMV4bwEjE9zWGlVuV4OQM626jOj/B4/l5mZ2XblRfDy3bpp YeMPXk/bEYs9TEx4Gkt87nBbOfWPT4XfiERP9fnvRtr1jqjTZaEkqqUfEhSGqPqEb1UK cg4u1GIuXJEu9Vxa9trqX+G7F62FwncHaNyZkOa+ylODh5tbCbK/8TXSHbI+aSDPwgdg K1yjVBoFE2VTOrpfj3DRaff1D94qX3Iv6x0n9wZzBS0uWYQIFHqg15BgwhIMMxvNDaiQ 3sa6f2UMJjJZpkFtGnwi6xubQHWaxY6OcHnWqjTAp+4Hsk+3+Hy2eXjZMyaoCAYJk3y2 mw== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2tx61cbk0a-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:38:14 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6QFWsQ8154563; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:38:14 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2tx60yhnc7-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:38:14 +0000 Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x6QFcD4h025180; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:38:13 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 08:38:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Noam Postavsky , Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: bug#26301: 24.5; `define-derived-mode': different signatures for doc string & manual References: <8cad00f7-f86e-4d12-ad36-05214708aff1@default> <8736itnjkk.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <855znokfrs.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <855znokfrs.fsf@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9330 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=891 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1907260191 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9330 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=952 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1907260191 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26301 Cc: 26301@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Docstrings can override the automatically generated signature by using > (fn ...) > So maybe we should do that here? Exactly. I should have thought to suggest that myself. Please do. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 26 11:52:00 2019 Received: (at 26301) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2019 15:52:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43235 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hr2Vj-0004g5-Sf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 11:52:00 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:33320) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hr2Vi-0004fp-B0 for 26301@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 11:51:58 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6QFnaau049400; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:51:52 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=vJJ98eAclp98qG6GmHXU/HAEz154icxqMc6uNnM3EAs=; b=GsIgXzVHbFU2zuOeY3VO60obXCDji8YzZjMIrCBZf+NvJEbyCxytBicX3iIV3sagP6RF kaL+4Hbtjvp7v0hcus2nRwK2j3M/6HitANHyFnpAAnXwKTJPO1zmgJo8e9i4x97oOi+F Wp21KlsJ0T/hI1PTnbBMPWJEOUTPGxkFatMNNewuA/7KHLLEk9jKXz/2Mnk6k3ACT3I8 XZF9RbCuYJwq68dRDtOLPmacnsax99Jc2duF39LYJgw9hR4Uw8i7Q1mIaMjRP3e2wCCQ bDuQD/e5EmM3wOGXlIG4+pUQGxkRG0gDkiRVk1qWBAiNP9eFH4D4RSGTm2fQAsdwvfii fg== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2tx61cbpsm-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:51:52 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6QFm7kw189157; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:51:52 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2tx60yhydr-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:51:51 +0000 Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x6QFpnaA026995; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:51:50 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 08:51:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Noam Postavsky Subject: RE: bug#26301: 24.5; `define-derived-mode': different signatures for doc string & manual References: <8cad00f7-f86e-4d12-ad36-05214708aff1@default> <8736itnjkk.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <855znokfrs.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9330 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=755 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1907260192 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9330 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=811 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1907260192 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26301 Cc: 26301@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Docstrings can override the automatically generated signature by > using > > > > (fn ...) > > > > So maybe we should do that here? >=20 > Hm... didn't think about that. I guess that makes sense? We'd say >=20 > (fn ... &rest KEYWORDS &body body) >=20 > or something? (Slightly Common Lispish.) I'm no expert on how we would write it. But in Common Lisp you cannot have both &rest and &body at the same level, I believe. Maybe this? (fn CHILD PARENT NAME &optional DOCSTRING KEYWORDS &rest BODY) And let the doc string describe KEYWORDS properly, to make clear that it's any number of keyword entries (keyword followed by its value). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 27 06:03:45 2019 Received: (at 26301) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jul 2019 10:03:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43602 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrJYH-0005Za-CW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 06:03:45 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:35400) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrJYF-0005ZS-KQ for 26301@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 06:03:43 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=stories) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hrJYA-00063H-T9; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 12:03:41 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Noam Postavsky Subject: Re: bug#26301: 24.5; `define-derived-mode': different signatures for doc string & manual References: <8cad00f7-f86e-4d12-ad36-05214708aff1@default> <8736itnjkk.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <855znokfrs.fsf@gmail.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAADFBMVEWRdqF1WH1RM1JkRmon GwKsAAACOklEQVQokR2OTWsTURiFz2CGrIQUG7qwMSv3FupCRZxgQnQRyNA7DbWJWbnouEgXCf2c zq8ILsSPjWDv2BTED5qQjuhWQTSTa21idmpuaArSNjbpdLzx3T2ccx5exLI1leWnKvbhvAZvxV04 dVMd7zDlwFzreZ7HPN5baCJhuuXygFldu1tF6PwetT02ON3k6zgb/u1VvJTLivoQGqxTYR47yDm4 vUSY5cab2UJpHaGZfH3fjR+bLt+CYQSm3Yy/arjdEywZATVDPhybhvcNM4mkEiQxd8ExD3AtAcgk vnpXyy1isDMa8RfktKaEF5E91lR5NRKKKSPA7Epa1Ygc1ZIBIJytRYhP8gVVAZmbzlQSAoiA68HC lAJh1MTmCjH/Q3BkwocVLav+T6QbSSxfbn2N+gBJGqth2fT+ECIpsiQKfbNT/5SPNGTfpXn02+WX AohQAFyn73fyMSIJCfSMF98dUZMSggRzoXBqZ1xyJEXUZjOcuZMRIitjUWHb7s3kITaj4+DN/s9B Xo5KvnO3QBv60VbbeRSDlETf4KVKJ9OMKf5xDNo6rfCWbb+bEO+0S2+3+cOqkb76GX33F/vR2bVP Exefg78osHouu9WLzn8EX3/GWtp0lTkXNsCtzS/O5Jnik1pwFZxaR/Y9LLUOA1GRWLQ8p/grzv00 6PCs+iuzqDcgAlrOsY07D7o10CHw4t73N/wvdEp5iT9+WqKWImxUX8vVh8s2+pTuh7O9IRygbNHX 8tj0EE7+AUesJ9QiKiRFAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 12:03:38 +0200 In-Reply-To: <855znokfrs.fsf@gmail.com> (Noam Postavsky's message of "Fri, 26 Jul 2019 10:54:31 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Noam Postavsky writes: > Docstrings can override the automatically generated signature by using > > (fn ...) > > So maybe we should do that here? I grepped a bit and had a look at what a few other functions that have the same general issue (i.e., that the BODY argument may be prepended with stuff that's "logically" a different argument): Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26301 Cc: 26301@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Noam Postavsky writes: > Docstrings can override the automatically generated signature by using > > (fn ...) > > So maybe we should do that here? I grepped a bit and had a look at what a few other functions that have the same general issue (i.e., that the BODY argument may be prepended with stuff that's "logically" a different argument): (defmacro cl-defgeneric (name args &rest options-and-methods) \(fn NAME ARGS [DOC-STRING] [OPTIONS-AND-METHODS...] &rest DEFAULT-BODY) (defmacro cl-defmethod (name args &rest body) \(fn NAME [QUALIFIER] ARGS &rest [DOCSTRING] BODY)" (defmacro pcase-defmacro (name args &rest body) \(fn NAME ARGS [DOC] &rest BODY...) So if we model ourself after cl-defgeneric here, that'd be: (defmacro define-derived-mode (child parent name &optional docstring &rest body) \(fn CHILD PARENT NAME [DOCSTRING] [KEYWORDS...] &rest BODY) So I've now done this and adjusted the rest of the doc string accordingly. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 27 12:54:57 2019 Received: (at 26301) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jul 2019 16:54:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45325 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrPyC-0005Z5-PI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 12:54:56 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:35744) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrPyA-0005Yr-Ha for 26301@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 12:54:54 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6RGs3lc095825; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 16:54:48 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=APMWJmX3qXWzaQhBPt02UJy9SaiquEsy14tmlxzqF6c=; b=E1iAGy2VRebg76gLWJGKk2863XEc8yGV0vjkd6yTSAVdoNP38enOs2LL8CET6yoVqOqG uYjygjNo6gF7XMyAAdQaSWOww5H5RjSAE6WNRXthi6uV9IILFHegXTpnq58kLkCKDvZ2 WGylcOIf8RzLa5ER9K79M8y6zWqgFBpT1OQRGTguS5wBNXZcHxVgSqaKSVGUtLftxwaQ /4CWG7nr7w3RU8XAmeKhMgXXSqb5PhUUc6sRrtrv2fUnYj/6w8yqTMAbqEiRwNML70Lz ZhDX0YbkjzQWpFfppieA5XD3UJBAeJkfk8ydzAR+l906xMRjp1cISvI5fX3aDhOWCF83 pA== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u0ejp1jut-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 27 Jul 2019 16:54:48 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6RGmNks079617; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 16:54:48 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u0ee2yr9d-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 27 Jul 2019 16:54:48 +0000 Received: from abhmp0012.oracle.com (abhmp0012.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x6RGsk32022973; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 16:54:46 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7e2203c3-0855-4716-9700-d2b31b4cc4ba@default> Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 09:54:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Noam Postavsky Subject: RE: bug#26301: 24.5; `define-derived-mode': different signatures for doc string & manual References: <8cad00f7-f86e-4d12-ad36-05214708aff1@default> <8736itnjkk.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <855znokfrs.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9331 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=685 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1907270212 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9331 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=740 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1907270213 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26301 Cc: 26301@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > \(fn CHILD PARENT NAME [DOCSTRING] [KEYWORDS...] &rest BODY) >=20 > So I've now done this and adjusted the rest of the doc string > accordingly. Sounds good. That's what I suggested, but with the addition of the `...' (good). However, in that case, KEYWORDS is the _wrong_ name. It is not _keywords_, which is presumably a _list_ of keywords (or more exactly, keyword key-value pairs), that is repeated. What is optional is not a list of lists. What is optional is a list of keywords (or more exactly...). The name should be KEYWORD or KEYWORD-ENTRY or KEYWORD-PAIR or some such. It should not be KEYWORDS. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 27 18:19:46 2019 Received: (at 26301) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jul 2019 22:19:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45533 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrV2X-0002ij-QJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 18:19:46 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([217.72.192.78]:53741) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrV2W-0002iV-Vt for 26301@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 18:19:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1564265969; bh=VXdTelxAlWerrYSVCODls3HNlrplcNc0UCP07E85aSA=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=WouwquA7+xD0EpJGUJjlePrn8WUk5Kx64xsxzoVQ3lbrwQm5JURzIEB60ONoaAd7Q qWoOzFU4nGs1BNrWwMFxHT6vbx+QaKkz9kgAMJSf6PO1ohlYgCfMzeajOFMplty/in TC+sKvfz4ZLs/WgOlIVsRQiyyWF+O3SwLSKeqkNw= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from drachen.dragon ([92.208.178.242]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb101 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Maamb-1i75wm3FsH-00K6ny; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 00:19:29 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#26301: 24.5; `define-derived-mode': different signatures for doc string & manual References: <8cad00f7-f86e-4d12-ad36-05214708aff1@default> <8736itnjkk.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <855znokfrs.fsf@gmail.com> <7e2203c3-0855-4716-9700-d2b31b4cc4ba@default> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 00:19:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: <7e2203c3-0855-4716-9700-d2b31b4cc4ba@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 27 Jul 2019 09:54:45 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87zhkzdssw.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:7lqfjAs713D4vlZkL8zPfbvBFQ7DmTW+RHNJQeehfQ8oNJx62ww f4nEpkelvu0FdqhyXTh3pn4a9SiqCECxnu1QzBemBbmx5DDNpcfGBMmZB9jmrF1CKlNjiwU gwtdQoRG/HyZRHplT4NR9I0F3/Q5q9Koc3SnKlF9b7xDQ8pDk6ScgLfdQAwnYm99kck87dI KgoDe9Vyf4CnWTfW/Kymw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:9veH9ctY160=:fW84OmU5Nl2KQx1RwK39V5 dN/1G5jnNkUafmFYtOK+QSXntyPs2+knNrTqLkFhdpU2MQ7CpEyvOSVa3k1Qfh5uGu3kUWGpx 06EL3KCAgWy8OGQ/9hSyp3sPGrfExkJApZhmhgE/27ydR1n/UShwik45f/IVNJnHwYItXX4pA 0uHXYekjeqAYC2IRlhb3JYNORaCdw0pwF6B1zSCzA/l/PFmQcSg2tMYVKK8ByIr5hIXb+UvjA tIuTbkfoKTaMEkDMimPAB7ReMfkAflnD4YqEt7YGUDMYNuTMf0eV/2uWzoyiNFQBFf3OpLcU+ uXhL+rHy1UU2q5rMO27Kmko00A1oT5ZVyLQDYld2U5JqQUPtHspf6L/eLD78DoO7WpJ0LXPy2 jejNWmSN8rsf0JXJmjMEBB6fZYjRFw9Qb6WC2bDV/1G3XjXFb2ldBhQCz//6Ym/7uV1gYkN/+ xStgBg+fAm/sPcXJ5JpcHEMc4PO+5ol2n3J0SeFHedf65g6kVGkLBpxWJzliXA/Ghw2XhGfEA whgIotFnnoadSBxz6u+LlaGRNrb6XwEQaw25mgXwgVhQ06cI37/Yu+dPNnw0WBfRvQgI2Jp45 qI6J1VK7aL5D5jrqMmGPZwV9a7xsebC1WQ9vFHLErVVq8OUSvyoVaitqQkgPPqyj0PfY99GCX 2sbnDcG1tryZ2iFx/23QBjCWkkDCDipqQoE0W/FKOUxrakzbFDcQUJhOXn1F1Je/pip1Kk/6+ GWjOkLcCo5hkocxswaW4W2MBg06So0mMD920qnr0V6CNqhM0lNi5hfjDdTsatxiShuTzZUEzQ hAChHQcazgI5hnITiTfQDI6LJ6CW9K4yTnJO+Zg4bVzwiQ0ATejKohnIar5Am+3Rlu2idT17Y qK+5l8rVuKs9wHsAzwQGJYXlrfsYSmSsJu5oDfyCM31NvUv/QnJhteym5ODY1fR3rQU3W0JtW JWTma1f6lPeLWXVr/fzn/Iwqh/rU8uSKZL87VNzDN+HET2K5xE/KzaffoKesaL6MM6/hqGNHO sruWFZMZl57AJ//AYNtUzC+wM6ar+nvWlA+35J1GFMSiTbjloK/9LzxpVuHml/0f2xZ8whJlV mlUYe5m/4b8u5uzfVFbR2fCtRweWmM/OsJK Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26301 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Noam Postavsky , 26301@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Drew Adams writes: > > \(fn CHILD PARENT NAME [DOCSTRING] [KEYWORDS...] &rest BODY) > > > > So I've now done this and adjusted the rest of the doc string > > accordingly. > > Sounds good. That's what I suggested, but with the > addition of the `...' (good). > > However, in that case, KEYWORDS is the _wrong_ name. In a similar case, `define-globalized-minor-mode' uses the name KEYS (it's the name of the &rest arg though). > The name should be KEYWORD or KEYWORD-ENTRY or KEYWORD-PAIR or some > such. I all find that not better. KEYWORD fails to say that values are included. KEYWORD-ENTRY and KEYWORD-PAIR are confising, they make it look like you would have to specify conses or two element lists. I would prefer something like [KEYWORD VALUE ...], though I guess that would then confuse eldoc. Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 27 20:01:47 2019 Received: (at 26301) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2019 00:01:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45586 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrWdH-0005Ld-Fh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 20:01:47 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:36658) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrWdG-0005LP-9Z for 26301@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 20:01:46 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6S00vxY155724; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 00:01:39 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=NSqb2T3pW/d+xrdzZ3mMzjwfJtK/v28X2bofh1jJDFM=; b=Ul0rdyyKgv+K87HBRMyziw4bZZ4bKLP5GRFKvs5FKdb3YqL4dH+j2AeyFaC0VpEGqONb BtvbTwfE1cP8Ot0M2vWto8pgOWGjvKmUS+U8OTG0PIKBA9tkaWCUZKqx7d9Pw0QtFOPy i68zsKIjYZCRrqOspgBQ42ReoDRfIPOWW0TnSwf09DuHqGFb1RYr5UqDW8mlVD0b+pgA mUbKWa1/CD++wKVP132L1RsOtu8Nsmjt84EAns3MoPZGvrPDgRBco979WVUTOph6GaSg L6VOUpLXHIdzs8bEFKW80abMcsM6JQYQ0uOx5pX7dzRb5RGoURaW5s3IZnhj716fVHOk dw== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u0ejp24u5-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 28 Jul 2019 00:01:39 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6RNrPww028861; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 00:01:39 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u0ee34jye-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 28 Jul 2019 00:01:38 +0000 Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x6S01VVO003290; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 00:01:38 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <04854612-43af-4085-8f2f-ff481ce329cb@default> Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 17:01:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: RE: bug#26301: 24.5; `define-derived-mode': different signatures for doc string & manual References: <8cad00f7-f86e-4d12-ad36-05214708aff1@default> <8736itnjkk.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <855znokfrs.fsf@gmail.com> <7e2203c3-0855-4716-9700-d2b31b4cc4ba@default> <87zhkzdssw.fsf@web.de> In-Reply-To: <87zhkzdssw.fsf@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9331 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=866 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1907270302 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9331 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=916 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1907270303 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26301 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Noam Postavsky , 26301@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > However, in that case, KEYWORDS is the _wrong_ name. >=20 > In a similar case, `define-globalized-minor-mode' uses the name KEYS > (it's the name of the &rest arg though). If each of the args in the &rest list is a KEY then that's fine. > > The name should be KEYWORD or KEYWORD-ENTRY or KEYWORD-PAIR or some > > such. >=20 > I all find that not better. KEYWORD fails to say that values are > included. KEYWORD-ENTRY and KEYWORD-PAIR are confising, they make it > look like you would have to specify conses or two element lists. >=20 > I would prefer something like [KEYWORD VALUE ...], though I guess that > would then confuse eldoc. That's incorrect, I think, because it indicates that VALUE is what is possibly repeated. If the convention doesn't actually specify that (I'm not sure) that's at least what someone might suppose. Dunno whether our convention allows [KEYWORD VALUE]... (i.e., with the ... after the optional indication). Otherwise, I'd suggest a name such as KEYWORD+VALUE: [KEYWORD+VALUE...] (If this were not something added automatically by handling (fn ...) then a single name (e.g. FOOBAR) could be broken down in the doc string, saying that FOOBAR is a keyword followed by its value.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 27 20:15:08 2019 Received: (at 26301) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2019 00:15:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45595 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrWqC-0005eg-4T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 20:15:08 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.11]:40135) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrWqA-0005dt-3L for 26301@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 20:15:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1564272888; bh=nI9AcMYTSkKTrH2DGcahOGe88RSuMVY0m6hFjbVSdys=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=fMTiIsLinhbrSt4FcA99HNGpZfWWjfbb7G/24Pd+s5g67NTpo8jphLjah0qrmM66W qLItmlwUlJSvet5uBe31o0LdsAaC1bjxAhVFUja5OWKOKQrvXFIyX3wexwJVmKUwT+ 3DM9crYGSaTGuJ/rB5heQw+D6r2LIHE4Jjbxc0Do= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from drachen.dragon ([92.208.178.242]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb103 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Ma2Pz-1i6aBD0S3b-00Lmco; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 02:14:48 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#26301: 24.5; `define-derived-mode': different signatures for doc string & manual References: <8cad00f7-f86e-4d12-ad36-05214708aff1@default> <8736itnjkk.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <855znokfrs.fsf@gmail.com> <7e2203c3-0855-4716-9700-d2b31b4cc4ba@default> <87zhkzdssw.fsf@web.de> <04854612-43af-4085-8f2f-ff481ce329cb@default> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 02:14:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: <04854612-43af-4085-8f2f-ff481ce329cb@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 27 Jul 2019 17:01:30 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87k1c3dngq.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:iPhe3terNyTVbftJQHaqGSZw9IFo9juhfoDDLXb9fE9j5jlSdsj plCPR4tCZbkBFq6xdK8TZWYgHA5g3bAZpjkagQt5xGLSv4bsTfHt2V32OCxacz2UHkf1AaX 9Yr53pDkj0bJ0b8rbMaq3rGR/p7RIPArwMD424TyzaPWwSV5cORz1ZJcIE30oZkOe3N326N LAO1l4NtwDE85J5c63VFQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:ZJ4cyRLDXGs=:sUWAPS4Rp88yHpJhoZrLKe M8PwR4HgjMZJhv91D45yJpCTVaLOmhDvGqitml7xB/MejG0fdEHaWOKDUPNJtShEgTvtrtS+f WlUOjqabSAvdxI/q1riFj5/swxiLGV5t7x9P1KiMVZOXygs4Hsxy39gjAxPg/4faZkWlTAj+O 7DVhuuCkGyE7VqECJzAKdsjlRZm5ocVx8/lgIPoJzHj3jYCyhxeORQ3d/LhTgnxoiJ+r9bnGu YA3hBjnCDX44dczE5rk6NOhtAIVKjh/Hq1RykXMKHj/g1x15x82M8tvCayNuk9Roa9AjngCoZ vgpsD0gOY6NY0s3VkpdZVsDcsP48JpycA67FcleriLB3NpB2yx3ewtXuIKptwO3Rt8Ld3XJrw kk3Mc7rx2Xzn90GScVesSsFYs3E3f4RdFRcOF91OD6RU6sPoC22U/EKEmpH9EcwVJZxqcAUup RLCbHvc0byJ1zUH06zkPEpO/zbSjJd2zrYpJVf2rHu4mUOFpKTa17zUfeBhEfsgf3k0HGu9Hv LivH0Or405826wfrjIesAbx7ZNM2ftDdOeYE9xPmj3+31H/Dv7ua/7oajAG9SzKmnxTJRSPps kYuz9oK8upWZyyQ+goRE1fetdqm8fQP4sd3K68JcUKz/Dp95IHd59ZnbWNyOUTYNOqyWMXhYz UTX7AyOVbKyD2+IlzVwlBvjfTiuJObJyZml8/kDKpkNAvtNV/2CwIFMusJwtXQXVdak3ufYN3 4kZs5FFkX0pcu/QfcIRQ+CLSexOWslqNUv2LCioadzljAxi18QWuzEr2aBMZj6FdrGzDi+4Y7 ynU4UZEowXToEmNxY1SB0vCf9iC+0c7NUZ0FBiznkqdA2SmccjojneRDPYWmDxbi1LJrhscC4 +fV22IChkB8jwfHP8ANBYhiXYKi4QzZM6D9dY687Imh216uIE7y6h4qW1WVur+x8aqD1vtIoN e1c9D/3aOZNQ+xM83yZgepnq1PRF6a7UUD4PM5e23W6BhsL0CbU1qRjrttmbYlM+CxCwx53Nt +93IQVDtQN0k6TiX7kQ4bermF6rsv7gE/diKg8sUkyhv8pxFXzDqa8U7gzZ6Xue9aUyPr0lTI YiHH7fJ8BvzEEaH9n/pQWnABXS1JrPf1d+v Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26301 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Noam Postavsky , 26301@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Drew Adams writes: > > > However, in that case, KEYWORDS is the _wrong_ name. > > > > In a similar case, `define-globalized-minor-mode' uses the name KEYS > > (it's the name of the &rest arg though). > > If each of the args in the &rest list is a KEY then that's fine. No, that's not the case. > Dunno whether our convention allows [KEYWORD VALUE]... > (i.e., with the ... after the optional indication). Yes, or even [[KEYWORD VALUE]...]? I don't know if we have an official convention at all. In this case here, since &rest is following this specification, I think eldoc will be confused in any case since it can't distinguish between keyword-value pairs and the following &rest BODY. Michael. From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:35:49 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator