From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:13:08 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#26236: 24.5; Info manual: need better index entry for node "`1'-`9' choose a menu subtopic by its number" Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 15:47:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 26236 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 26236@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.149037040710570 (code B ref -1); Fri, 24 Mar 2017 15:47:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Mar 2017 15:46:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42623 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crRQN-0002kP-A9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:46:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38766) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crRQK-0002kC-Tl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:46:45 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crRQE-0001E2-MC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:46:39 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:41484) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crRQE-0001Dp-IP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:46:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57947) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crRQD-0008W6-2C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:46:38 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crRQ9-0001CD-JS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:46:36 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:45870) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crRQ9-0001Am-8V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:46:33 -0400 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v2OFkSKk009328 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 15:46:29 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v2OFkS2v029541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 15:46:28 GMT Received: from abhmp0009.oracle.com (abhmp0009.oracle.com [141.146.116.15]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v2OFkRIA028724 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 15:46:28 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 08:46:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) The Info manual should be exemplary in using the features of Info - it should be among the best examples of Info. There is room for improvement in this regard. 1. To start with, see http://emacs.stackexchange.com/a/31679/105. In the Info manual, please provide more and better index entries for this node. A user should be able to find it using `i menu TAB'. 2. Using `i menu TAB' you can get to node `Menus and the =E2=80=98m=E2=80= =99 command' (which should be named `Menus and the =E2=80=98m=E2=80=99 Command'= ). But from that node you cannot get to node ``1'-`9' choose a menu subtopic by its number'. Each of these nodes should have a cross-reference to the other. The first of these nodes purports to be the main node about menus. It should link to other nodes that talk about using menus. 3. The index entry `select N=E2=80=99th menu item' should use "Nth", not "N=E2=80=99th". 4. This node name, and some other node names in the manual, should use title case, not sentence case. E.g. `1'-`9' Choose a Menu Subtopic By its Number". (That title is anyway not so good. Put the 1-9 at the end, and remove the quotes.) The menu item for this node in its parent menu should likewise be "Choose Menu Subtopic", not "Choose menu subtopic", and "Create Info buffer" in that menu should be "Create Info Buffer". In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2015-04-11 on LEG570 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D3D/c/usr --host=3D3Di686-pc-mingw32' From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:13:08 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Drew Adams Subject: bug#26236: closed (Re: bug#26236: 24.5; Info manual: need better index entry for node "`1'-`9' choose a menu subtopic by its number") Message-ID: References: <83tw6hbxji.fsf@gnu.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 26236 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 26236@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 07:56:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1490428562-30939-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1490428562-30939-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #26236: 24.5; Info manual: need better index entry for node "`1'-`9' choose= a menu subtopic by its number" which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 26236@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 26236: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D26236 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1490428562-30939-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 26236-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2017 07:55:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43190 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crgY6-00082W-2a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 03:55:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42517) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crgY3-00082I-NJ for 26236-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 03:55:44 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crgXv-0000JY-Bc for 26236-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 03:55:38 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51390) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crgXv-0000JU-8r; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 03:55:35 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4571 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1crgXu-0005oR-JY; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 03:55:35 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:55:29 +0300 Message-Id: <83tw6hbxji.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 24 Mar 2017 08:46:26 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#26236: 24.5; Info manual: need better index entry for node "`1'-`9' choose a menu subtopic by its number" References: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26236-done Cc: 26236-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 08:46:26 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > > 1. To start with, see http://emacs.stackexchange.com/a/31679/105. > > In the Info manual, please provide more and better index entries for > this node. A user should be able to find it using `i menu TAB'. Done. You can now use any of i menu RET i star RET i 3 RET i third RET i 6 RET i sixth RET to get to the "Choose menu subtopic" node. > 2. Using `i menu TAB' you can get to node `Menus and the ‘m’ > command' (which should be named `Menus and the ‘m’ Command'). But > from that node you cannot get to node ``1'-`9' choose a menu > subtopic by its number'. Each of these nodes should have a > cross-reference to the other. The first of these nodes purports > to be the main node about menus. It should link to other nodes > that talk about using menus. I don't see why adding cross-references in that node would be a good idea. That node is part of the "quick tour" section of the manual, and as such it should not risk inadvertently showing to the reader "advanced" features she didn't yet have chance reading about. > 3. The index entry `select N’th menu item' should use "Nth", not > "N’th". I don't understand why. I left that alone. > 4. This node name, and some other node names in the manual, should use > title case, not sentence case. E.g. `1'-`9' Choose a Menu Subtopic By > its Number". (That title is anyway not so good. Put the 1-9 at the > end, and remove the quotes.) These are not node names, they are section/subsection names. This manual seems to have a consistent style regarding these names, and I don't see why we should change its convention by another. Thanks. ------------=_1490428562-30939-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Mar 2017 15:46:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42623 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crRQN-0002kP-A9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:46:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38766) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crRQK-0002kC-Tl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:46:45 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crRQE-0001E2-MC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:46:39 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:41484) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crRQE-0001Dp-IP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:46:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57947) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crRQD-0008W6-2C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:46:38 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crRQ9-0001CD-JS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:46:36 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:45870) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crRQ9-0001Am-8V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:46:33 -0400 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v2OFkSKk009328 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 15:46:29 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v2OFkS2v029541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 15:46:28 GMT Received: from abhmp0009.oracle.com (abhmp0009.oracle.com [141.146.116.15]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v2OFkRIA028724 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 15:46:28 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 08:46:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.5; Info manual: need better index entry for node "`1'-`9' choose a menu subtopic by its number" X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) The Info manual should be exemplary in using the features of Info - it should be among the best examples of Info. There is room for improvement in this regard. 1. To start with, see http://emacs.stackexchange.com/a/31679/105. In the Info manual, please provide more and better index entries for this node. A user should be able to find it using `i menu TAB'. 2. Using `i menu TAB' you can get to node `Menus and the =E2=80=98m=E2=80= =99 command' (which should be named `Menus and the =E2=80=98m=E2=80=99 Command'= ). But from that node you cannot get to node ``1'-`9' choose a menu subtopic by its number'. Each of these nodes should have a cross-reference to the other. The first of these nodes purports to be the main node about menus. It should link to other nodes that talk about using menus. 3. The index entry `select N=E2=80=99th menu item' should use "Nth", not "N=E2=80=99th". 4. This node name, and some other node names in the manual, should use title case, not sentence case. E.g. `1'-`9' Choose a Menu Subtopic By its Number". (That title is anyway not so good. Put the 1-9 at the end, and remove the quotes.) The menu item for this node in its parent menu should likewise be "Choose Menu Subtopic", not "Choose menu subtopic", and "Create Info buffer" in that menu should be "Create Info Buffer". In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2015-04-11 on LEG570 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D3D/c/usr --host=3D3Di686-pc-mingw32' ------------=_1490428562-30939-1-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:13:08 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#26236: 24.5; Info manual: need better index entry for node "`1'-`9' choose a menu subtopic by its number" Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:09:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 26236 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 26236-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 26236-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D26236.14904509277419 (code D ref 26236); Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:09:02 +0000 Received: (at 26236-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2017 14:08:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44410 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crmN5-0001vb-5o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:08:47 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:28312) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crmN2-0001vN-OZ for 26236-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:08:45 -0400 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v2PE8cB0005719 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:08:38 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v2PE8bhx002730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:08:37 GMT Received: from abhmp0009.oracle.com (abhmp0009.oracle.com [141.146.116.15]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v2PE8bx8000637; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:08:37 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <071c6394-5855-4388-b665-5e374d8f5fd4@default> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 07:08:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <83tw6hbxji.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83tw6hbxji.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-Spam-Score: -4.6 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.6 (----) > > In the Info manual, please provide more and better index entries for > > this node. A user should be able to find it using `i menu TAB'. >=20 > Done. You can now use any of > i menu RET > i star RET > i 3 RET > i third RET > i 6 RET > i sixth RET > to get to the "Choose menu subtopic" node. Thanks. > > 2. Using `i menu TAB' you can get to node `Menus and the =E2=80=98m=E2= =80=99 > > command' (which should be named `Menus and the =E2=80=98m=E2=80=99 Comm= and'). But > > from that node you cannot get to node ``1'-`9' choose a menu > > subtopic by its number'. Each of these nodes should have a > > cross-reference to the other. The first of these nodes purports > > to be the main node about menus. It should link to other nodes > > that talk about using menus. >=20 > I don't see why adding cross-references in that node would be a good > idea. That node is part of the "quick tour" section of the manual, > and as such it should not risk inadvertently showing to the reader > "advanced" features she didn't yet have chance reading about. It's also the main node you get to from `i menu'. There's nothing wrong with cross-referencing some "advanced" information from a "tour" node, as long as it is identified as such. I also mentioned an xref in the other direction. Link to general info about the menu and using `m', from the node about using 1-9. > > 3. The index entry `select N=E2=80=99th menu item' should use "Nth", no= t > > "N=E2=80=99th". >=20 > I don't understand why. I left that alone. Because it is not how nth is written in English. Or in Emacs, for that matter. > > 4. This node name, and some other node names in the manual, should use > > title case, not sentence case. E.g. `1'-`9' Choose a Menu Subtopic By > > its Number". (That title is anyway not so good. Put the 1-9 at the > > end, and remove the quotes.) >=20 > These are not node names, they are section/subsection names. OK. They are menu items, or menu-item descriptions. > This manual seems to have a consistent style regarding these names, > and I don't see why we should change its convention by another. How is it consistent regarding these menu items/descriptions? Some of them use title case and some use sentence case - in the same menu. Anyway, if you took care of #1 then thank you for that.