From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:09:33 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#26233 <26233@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#26233 <26233@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist Reply-To: bug#26233 <26233@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 14:09:33 +0000 retitle 26233 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-ali= st reassign 26233 emacs submitter 26233 Jens Lechtenboerger severity 26233 minor tag 26233 patch wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 24 09:25:55 2017 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Mar 2017 13:25:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41828 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crPE3-0005ol-9k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:25:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46348) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crPE2-0005oX-3W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:25:54 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crPDw-00064c-0h for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:25:48 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FSL_NEW_HELO_USER autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:47938) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crPDv-00064V-TJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:25:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37319) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crPDu-0005Tm-Ms for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:25:47 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crPDq-000616-O1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:25:46 -0400 Received: from zivm-wwu3-1.uni-muenster.de ([128.176.192.17]:61984 helo=zivm-wwu3.uni-muenster.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_ARCFOUR_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crPDq-0005yi-CW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:25:42 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2D/AQCDHdVY/xi8sIBdHQYMg1WBbI1xc?= =?us-ascii?q?48tAQEBAQEGBZRYgg+CDoYigyY/GAECAQEBAQEBAWsohRUBgSsDAQIKNAEEKBM?= =?us-ascii?q?hiXoNmWmSLIpjD4YJiVhQLIR6HwWcWZ0ghluTZR84gQRaFEGGWXSHMYI9AQEB?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2D/AQCDHdVY/xi8sIBdHQYMg1WBbI1xc48tAQEBAQEGBZR?= =?us-ascii?q?Ygg+CDoYigyY/GAECAQEBAQEBAWsohRUBgSsDAQIKNAEEKBMhiXoNmWmSLIpjD?= =?us-ascii?q?4YJiVhQLIR6HwWcWZ0ghluTZR84gQRaFEGGWXSHMYI9AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.36,214,1486422000"; d="scan'208,223";a="124603300" Received: from mail.uni-muenster.de ([128.176.188.24]) by zivm-relay3.uni-muenster.de with ESMTP; 24 Mar 2017 14:25:38 +0100 Received: from localhost (D-3140W19.WIWI.UNI-MUENSTER.DE [128.176.158.169]) by mail.uni-muenster.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1673DBF402 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:25:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from user by localhost with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crPDm-0006qU-1g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:25:38 +0100 From: Jens Lechtenboerger To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist OpenPGP: id=0xBCD68E10; url=https://dbis-group.uni-muenster.de/dbms/media/people/lechtenboerger/0xBCD68E10.asc Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:25:38 +0100 Message-ID: <87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Hi there, in Bug#25946 we discussed how to replace the obsolete variables special-display-buffer-names and special-display-regexps. The attached patch extends the doc string of display-buffer-alist based on that discussion. Best wishes Jens --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: inline; filename=0001-Improve-documentation-for-display-buffer-alist.patch >From 10c5930b3056aa8366f1c4e02b24ba3de3f79058 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: =?UTF-8?q?Jens=20Lechtenb=C3=B6rger?= Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:09:15 +0100 Subject: [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist The obsolete variables special-display-buffer-names and special-display-regexps refer to display-buffer-alist. As a follow-up to Bug#25946 this change extends the doc string for that variable. * list/windows.el (display-buffer-alist): Extend doc string. --- lisp/window.el | 15 ++++++++++++++- 1 file changed, 14 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/lisp/window.el b/lisp/window.el index 5050243..c5c3e89 100644 --- a/lisp/window.el +++ b/lisp/window.el @@ -6792,7 +6792,20 @@ display-buffer-alist `display-buffer' scans this alist until it either finds a matching regular expression or the function specified by a condition returns non-nil. In any of these cases, it adds the -associated action to the list of actions it will try." +associated action to the list of actions it will try. + +If you aim to replicate behavior of the obsolete variables +`special-display-buffer-names' or `special-display-regexps', +you may want to add something similar to the following to your +init file (which places buffers whose names end with +\" output\" into separate frames): +(customize-set-variable 'display-buffer-alist + '((\".* output\" + (display-buffer-reuse-window + display-buffer-pop-up-frame) + (reusable-frames . t)) + )) +(setq display-buffer-mark-dedicated t)" :type `(alist :key-type (choice :tag "Condition" regexp -- 2.1.4 --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 24 10:51:18 2017 Received: (at 26233) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Mar 2017 14:51:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42542 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crQYg-00080j-Dg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:51:18 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:27243) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crQYe-00080V-8B for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:51:16 -0400 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v2OEp8au028333 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:51:09 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v2OEp8RG027601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:51:08 GMT Received: from abhmp0009.oracle.com (abhmp0009.oracle.com [141.146.116.15]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v2OEp7Ua005766; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:51:07 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1a350894-ae16-4706-888f-6575cdc559ec@default> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 07:51:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Jens Lechtenboerger , 26233@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#26233: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist References: <87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> In-Reply-To: <87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26233 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) > in Bug#25946 we discussed how to replace the obsolete variables > special-display-buffer-names and special-display-regexps. The > attached patch extends the doc string of display-buffer-alist > based on that discussion. FWIW: 1. I *strongly* object to the deprecation of these user options. Instead of deprecating them, we should not only continue to support them, as we have been doing, but fully document and even promote them. If they did not exist then Emacs would be well advised to invent them, as they are convenient, _simple_ ways to specify special-display of buffers. "Special-display" is a thing. Or at least it was. Now, the term has been liquidated from the manual. The only vestige of it is in the description of menu "`Display Property': Enabling special display features." That's unfortunate for users. It is fine to have introduced a generalization, which was done with `display-buffer-alist' etc. It is not fine to remove these simple, easy-to-use ways of expressing common use cases. 2. The patch, though it proceeds from a good motivation no doubt, can suggest that adding that code or similar (e.g. some other regexp) in your init file will give you the behavior of those deprecated options, in general. That impression would be incorrect. First, there are two such options, not just the `-regexps' one. More importantly are the so-called=20 "alternative" forms of the option values - two=20 "alternatives" for each option. Just one example such=20 as that given indicates nothing about these=20 possibilities. These options, and users, deserve a complete description of how to get their full behavior using the more general apparatus (`display-buffer-alist' etc.). We should have a section in the manual that describes these options and "special-display" in general, just as was the case in the past. In that section it should be shown how this or that behavior, which you can obtain simply using these options, can also be had using `display-buffer-alist'. I can almost guarantee that if we did that, then, as a side benefit (and one that is sorely needed, IMO), users would come away with a better understanding of `display-buffer-alist' itself, and how to use it. To this day - years after it was introduced - users (including me) are still in the dark and confused about `display-buffer-alist'. IOW, introduce these options as first-class citizens, and show _how they correspond_ to the more general apparatus. 3. I also object to the way the doc strings for these options were changed, to suggest that the "alternative" value forms are perhaps only arcane or less-important "alternatives". Originally, the doc strings just said, outright, that there are 3 forms the value can take: 1, 2, 3. None of those forms were relegated to the background, as an afterthought or as something obscure or inferior. Though simple to use, these are powerful options, which should not be trivialized. Users should be encouraged to use these options whenever they do the job needed, and to use the more general constructs when they need something else. Instead, we've hidden these simple constructs, told users that they are now deprecated, and tossed users immediately onto the rocks of `display-buffer-alist' as their only resort, even for these simple use cases. That's not right. Just one opinion. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 24 14:55:02 2017 Received: (at 26233) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Mar 2017 18:55:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42755 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crUMY-0002U2-1X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:55:02 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:61438) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crUMW-0002Tj-59 for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:55:00 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([213.162.68.26]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MZfZi-1cbSqJ35gc-00LY4a; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 19:54:53 +0100 Message-ID: <58D56B7A.2080909@gmx.at> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 19:54:50 +0100 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jens Lechtenboerger , 26233@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#26233: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist References: <87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> In-Reply-To: <87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:V/vNZX2XWIyWroS/+TTyW08zZku3DlBPfM6NYWQk5Nu5ZJBLvYX Gg2q+AmFm4zcJ40r14TwTInmthExp1Ategh0WUofMg7U2ehEYaXaMSxO+Ae65V1N6bij+Ig bklksvhDwAARbmhM4WFfLVwILZCVp4Q/RDgPX0St53cr1Fjx/yAZmCN11IpO3usw3h06eIp HrZEXPUWs33gdaVYFBJ4A== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:Y0INCNPMf7M=:+XQFpEu8kOLVhwt2xAW/fq 3GunhypqGRCLjAPYNyKeUYyAu+S/x4Y4Pcp++yTLCLQellZYOcu4eZeFViYHnzWzX3KaFji3d r/R1O0nHH294WYL66z9RiDqBVpoCcmTs59re8pd+eKhg8uMFMea3DUeAk7yaDb7/2vXpdsr67 zp1HJqcJeR8N0OKfyuhjtcFXpBoY+ysxBBtSB/KoFfMu5v7WxRncFgs4uYQcWiyNJSnCrV676 ELrAEDOBvnxGgvu9PupVrE1Z4JjF1v0WoUAKinQiXKeu18MTmQTu6x/qkVaVINYabup59QgXN IKxfLCnFYLEhatxipSRTRi9tczIpPEJdAQbcSZFQw2MuRNd9Opctb2rT76blRmMLz25L+beLz NN0Hp50jDHROH3JAatVm5einKqnu/E55fFEzTM/yECXGyJmPxbhtibQq6QZ5UQaUvbLLscNJD 7qhYp9Os3hzF7ZdYT00+FgzF34jb37kIY/dnnXv2pK/oTy+P/NoxNnQR5BGsszhbB/c9b61V8 I2OVhwbMinRbXr7GyMjpH7oPWO8BpvJGqHREhhWrs7qxHfjC4UYR0E5jZXGlsYzw90BseM+GQ bjYnEOzJ56FKMX4BUnI86ROQAo0mnwzuqjIitNpQZb8qjLkR6PINVNYTQyC+70Sh8Cza9MRtH DwxXSceLwrBEzqcabptyYlo+OBvJaGs8jrLgAyloOwsDFK1wBUJr0+FeHsadAcAv6xgAlQYJV 1+qQuPU/nF/RyWMoi4f/S30BQMteueEutI8QoN2cRTosW0iCqmUeaxejAqULZT7l7c2a3A0g9 TA98YiQSdiUJNTIsiM2hZPRDdSZnA== X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26233 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > in Bug#25946 we discussed how to replace the obsolete variables > special-display-buffer-names and special-display-regexps. The > attached patch extends the doc string of display-buffer-alist based > on that discussion. Thanks. Personally I'd prefer having that in the Elisp manual. Either in a new subsection or at the end of section 27.14 Action Functions for `display-buffer'? Code in doc-strings is sometimes tedious to read. martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 25 03:53:24 2017 Received: (at 26233) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2017 07:53:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43186 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crgVo-0007zE-NT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 03:53:24 -0400 Received: from mx1.mailbox.org ([80.241.60.212]:40987) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crgVm-0007z0-7Q for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 03:53:22 -0400 Received: from smtp1.mailbox.org (smtp1.mailbox.org [80.241.60.240]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1371C45C54; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 08:53:15 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at heinlein-support.de Received: from smtp1.mailbox.org ([80.241.60.240]) by spamfilter03.heinlein-hosting.de (spamfilter03.heinlein-hosting.de [80.241.56.117]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id xwLKQZ8mcDXN; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 08:53:15 +0100 (CET) From: Jens Lechtenboerger To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#26233: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist References: <87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> <1a350894-ae16-4706-888f-6575cdc559ec@default> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 08:53:13 +0100 Message-ID: <878tnt6bdi.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26233 Cc: 26233@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 2017-03-24, at 07:51, Drew Adams wrote: >> in Bug#25946 we discussed how to replace the obsolete variables >> special-display-buffer-names and special-display-regexps. The >> attached patch extends the doc string of display-buffer-alist >> based on that discussion. > > FWIW: > > 1. I *strongly* object to the deprecation of these user > options. > [...] I agree wholeheartedly. > 2. The patch, though it proceeds from a good motivation > no doubt, can suggest that adding that code or similar > (e.g. some other regexp) in your init file will give you > the behavior of those deprecated options, in general. > That impression would be incorrect. > > First, there are two such options, not just the > `-regexps' one. More importantly are the so-called > "alternative" forms of the option values - two > "alternatives" for each option. Just one example such > as that given indicates nothing about these > possibilities. > [...] I never used those alternative forms, but you are right. They need to be documented as well. However, I don't know how. Many thanks for your input Jens From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 25 04:00:17 2017 Received: (at 26233) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2017 08:00:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43196 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crgcS-0008AM-NN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 04:00:16 -0400 Received: from mx1.mailbox.org ([80.241.60.212]:43925) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crgcR-0008A9-So for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 04:00:16 -0400 Received: from smtp1.mailbox.org (smtp1.mailbox.org [80.241.60.240]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1EEED456BF; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 09:00:10 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at heinlein-support.de Received: from smtp1.mailbox.org ([80.241.60.240]) by hefe.heinlein-support.de (hefe.heinlein-support.de [91.198.250.172]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id Qn4dBaFxMLwG; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 09:00:03 +0100 (CET) From: Jens Lechtenboerger To: martin rudalics Subject: Re: bug#26233: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist References: <87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> <58D56B7A.2080909@gmx.at> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 09:00:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: <58D56B7A.2080909@gmx.at> (martin rudalics's message of "Fri, 24 Mar 2017 19:54:50 +0100") Message-ID: <874lyh6b25.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26233 Cc: 26233@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 2017-03-24, at 19:54, martin rudalics wrote: >> in Bug#25946 we discussed how to replace the obsolete variables >> special-display-buffer-names and special-display-regexps. The >> attached patch extends the doc string of display-buffer-alist based >> on that discussion. > > Thanks. Personally I'd prefer having that in the Elisp manual. Either > in a new subsection or at the end of section 27.14 Action Functions for > `display-buffer'? Code in doc-strings is sometimes tedious to read. I'm surprised. I consider that information relevant to ordinary users, not only developers. As pointed out by Drew Adams, probably a new section in the Emacs manual is necessary. Also, she convinced me that much more information is necessary, which I'm unable to provide. Best wishes Jens From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 25 04:32:26 2017 Received: (at 26233) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2017 08:32:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43210 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crh7a-0000SJ-5J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 04:32:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49154) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crh7Y-0000S6-F8 for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 04:32:24 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crh7Q-0002bI-1i for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 04:32:19 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51863) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crh7P-0002bE-VA; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 04:32:15 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4584 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1crh7P-0005Sj-7E; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 04:32:15 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:32:10 +0300 Message-Id: <83shm1bvud.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Lechtenboerger In-reply-to: <878tnt6bdi.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de> (message from Jens Lechtenboerger on Sat, 25 Mar 2017 08:53:13 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#26233: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist References: <87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> <1a350894-ae16-4706-888f-6575cdc559ec@default> <878tnt6bdi.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26233 Cc: 26233@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Jens Lechtenboerger > Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 08:53:13 +0100 > Cc: 26233@debbugs.gnu.org > > On 2017-03-24, at 07:51, Drew Adams wrote: > > >> in Bug#25946 we discussed how to replace the obsolete variables > >> special-display-buffer-names and special-display-regexps. The > >> attached patch extends the doc string of display-buffer-alist > >> based on that discussion. > > > > FWIW: > > > > 1. I *strongly* object to the deprecation of these user > > options. > > [...] > > I agree wholeheartedly. Those variables were obsoleted in Emacs 24.3, which was released 4 years ago. Isn't it too late to strongly object now to their deprecation? That ship sailed long ago. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 25 05:28:51 2017 Received: (at 26233) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2017 09:28:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43248 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cri0A-0001jc-Vn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 05:28:51 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:57791) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cri09-0001jP-Pg for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 05:28:50 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([213.162.68.58]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx001 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LcSAg-1cPlqX18Io-00jtR7; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:28:43 +0100 Message-ID: <58D63847.1060906@gmx.at> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:28:39 +0100 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jens Lechtenboerger Subject: Re: bug#26233: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist References: <87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> <58D56B7A.2080909@gmx.at> <874lyh6b25.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de> In-Reply-To: <874lyh6b25.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:/pWZiNBe3mc6gQzUuVA612BoYl62PniG+nDHewnLQF+gO6WLewq 4lBJmS67QR0RT30fnWaLsP8NlYwMKNDP7DqZqJzdRDbHEKMZdXPdxLNc09TyxdUJB1vLq+k b3vTA8z0hNNHUX7+XE3Lj7Y1kvwY2lb81jPxwbrEXCT24BQXO4fmxcSTXMqk9+wky3DnmQA y9btuhWvPtU7P+Ih+5gtA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:qc852wCYLFE=:Qp6Rk/pMgAZcaN0fC1Xgir RhYOum0Wq8+JqHyVxhnT5at2kTIwHCSnB8AATgaMoTWgrQdp7AVYBjLKKGgwb8sjBTkMpCZrn 9wYTrFh12o6VXt08vXSKSeDHssXs3dc1GC8qAKDnkotMg5vj+iRfzRjU1k2QuB/LSh6sC96Uj 0deMebEBtGxqEefQ4HTziEronEsC7rVaS/ULAtSW08BY9qDNL1iL0rI5ccQyVz7Sm/9sCWmj5 TtiB55jouq4zIFjga3HI/sD4h5a3Aj1/gLoatGNZ28+f6vgnJW8ZmIm4pCUBmiEFh71mHQmTJ qZETzjVF+Gl9Hl/D1IcheMOt58+KvIh43kNtDphilE6BG6+vto7MenS4/ylSbLUmYK6H4tXls GsmGNPk+TwzGtDmocl8sEv8eWpQy5cw3UQYfqsNDevifU6q6YupUwsso5DEQpf4LXOmpaTAUR Flfi5DkTCIbtm5rxujQinb5+22tRMw3MLV2X8F71t4BsUcoBR0CCGkR8GmfpUQ1cLmGzbecj9 e9Q0amuG7+NjbUwO0KDD500j2Zb+P/+5XKjZUgCOVuLb0mHj1rnjzTnzz5sn9Tuds72eTRG8f o9mNTEFdkn8PNKl+kYSqqBxMU9oqTjkythW+XK9K8R47Jn8ABlp4kSCBzo23SNzdVE78UILhN izjKdnHfX2LZaH65sKCKiMHoXCGkUB9q8xxfWwew6csDr/DH2TYscFsnnpOB/gY4+0/hSPKV5 c25HiYpzYUTStDXy3RVr6R0lbthL1hOBk0PNidZtpYf37C8QrMWC0NpO3PYEsghUyiziVGL6i 30yZj8fbhy4m9zmWbICFiof+iEspQ== X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26233 Cc: 26233@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) >> Thanks. Personally I'd prefer having that in the Elisp manual. Either >> in a new subsection or at the end of section 27.14 Action Functions for >> `display-buffer'? Code in doc-strings is sometimes tedious to read. > > I'm surprised. I consider that information relevant to ordinary > users, not only developers. As pointed out by Drew Adams, probably > a new section in the Emacs manual is necessary. Also, she convinced > me that much more information is necessary, which I'm unable to > provide. That's why I used the term "personally". If you think that putting the information in the doc-string is better, let's do that. martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 25 10:37:04 2017 Received: (at 26233) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2017 14:37:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44431 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crmoS-0002ag-CW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:37:04 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:32838) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crmoQ-0002aC-QS for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:37:03 -0400 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v2PEatsh023920 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:36:56 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v2PEatRV002750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:36:55 GMT Received: from abhmp0009.oracle.com (abhmp0009.oracle.com [141.146.116.15]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v2PEasPc011166; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:36:54 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 07:36:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Jens Lechtenboerger Subject: RE: bug#26233: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist References: <<87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> <1a350894-ae16-4706-888f-6575cdc559ec@default>> <<878tnt6bdi.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de>> <<83shm1bvud.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83shm1bvud.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -4.6 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26233 Cc: 26233@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.6 (----) > > >> in Bug#25946 we discussed how to replace the obsolete variables > > >> special-display-buffer-names and special-display-regexps. The > > >> attached patch extends the doc string of display-buffer-alist > > >> based on that discussion. > > > > > > FWIW: > > > > > > 1. I *strongly* object to the deprecation of these user > > > options. > > > [...] > > > > I agree wholeheartedly. >=20 > Those variables were obsoleted in Emacs 24.3, which was released > 4 years ago. Isn't it too late to strongly object now to their > deprecation? That ship sailed long ago. 1. No, it should not be "too late" to do something sensible. 2. I _did_ object at the time. And several times since. With reasoned arguments each time. The arguments are still valid. 3. If for some reason Emacs stubbornly still does not want to rehabilitate these options and document them prominently (e.g. in the manual), then it should (IMHO) at the very least explicitly decide to leave them deprecated and supported - i.e., express the intention not to desupport them. (Obviously, #3 is not what I prefer.) To be clear, I have no objection to the point of view that says that our docs should encourage users to use `display-buffer-alist'. I suspect that that was the (only?) aim behind the deprecations: `d-b-a' was to completely replace them, since it is a more general tool. But we need not throw out the motorbike just because we now have a minivan, which is larger and more general-purpose. These are simple-to-use, well-defined options (just as well-defined as `display-buffer-alist'), which provide a class of solid special cases (use cases). In fact, we would be well advised to think about perhaps creating additional simple ways to provide other special cases of `display-buffer-alist'. This is not a race ("Time's up!"). These options work just as well today as they did when they were deprecated. No reason was ever given for their deprecation, beyond "We now have the more general `display-buffer-alist'." And if some users were steered away from them in the interim, that is not the end of the world. These are _conveniences_, and good ones. No one is obliged to use them. If someone prefers to slash her way through the `display-buffer-alist' jungle for such simple use cases, more power to her! `display-buffer-alist' is notoriously difficult to understand and make use of. As one example, though I've asked several times how to use it to get the same effect provided by these options I've never gotten a response. That's the first step for Emacs to take, IMO, after undeprecating these options (as well as anything else "special-display", of course, such as `special-display-alist'): State in the doc exactly how they correspond to a special case of using `display-buffer-alist'. _Show_ the equivalence. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 25 10:59:06 2017 Received: (at 26233) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2017 14:59:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44447 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crn9m-000367-0S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:59:06 -0400 Received: from mx1.mailbox.org ([80.241.60.212]:42927) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crn9k-00035B-00 for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:59:04 -0400 Received: from smtp1.mailbox.org (smtp1.mailbox.org [80.241.60.240]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3C704554C; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 15:58:57 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at heinlein-support.de Received: from smtp1.mailbox.org ([80.241.60.240]) by spamfilter02.heinlein-hosting.de (spamfilter02.heinlein-hosting.de [80.241.56.116]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id lAUmiY1f6lJE; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 15:58:53 +0100 (CET) From: Jens Lechtenboerger To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#26233: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist References: <87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> <1a350894-ae16-4706-888f-6575cdc559ec@default> <878tnt6bdi.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de> <83shm1bvud.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 15:58:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83shm1bvud.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:32:10 +0300") Message-ID: <87tw6h9zdg.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26233 Cc: 26233@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 2017-03-25, at 11:32, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Jens Lechtenboerger >> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 08:53:13 +0100 >> Cc: 26233@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> On 2017-03-24, at 07:51, Drew Adams wrote: >> >> >> in Bug#25946 we discussed how to replace the obsolete variables >> >> special-display-buffer-names and special-display-regexps. The >> >> attached patch extends the doc string of display-buffer-alist >> >> based on that discussion. >> > >> > FWIW: >> > >> > 1. I *strongly* object to the deprecation of these user >> > options. >> > [...] >> >> I agree wholeheartedly. > > Those variables were obsoleted in Emacs 24.3, which was released 4 > years ago. Isn't it too late to strongly object now to their > deprecation? That ship sailed long ago. I see it this way: The departure of that ship was announced long ago, for those knowing where to look; however, it did not sail yet. I've got several settings for special-display variables in my init file (predating 24.3, I don't know since when). They still work today, and they work without any user visible warning. Best wishes Jens From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 25 11:57:34 2017 Received: (at 26233) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2017 15:57:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44477 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cro4M-0004Vz-49 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:57:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55333) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cro4L-0004Vn-8W for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:57:33 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cro4F-0006rN-5m for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:57:28 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55923) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cro4F-0006rJ-2K; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:57:27 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1708 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1cro4E-0005l1-72; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:57:26 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 18:57:22 +0300 Message-Id: <83mvc9bb8d.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Lechtenboerger In-reply-to: <87tw6h9zdg.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de> (message from Jens Lechtenboerger on Sat, 25 Mar 2017 15:58:51 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#26233: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist References: <87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> <1a350894-ae16-4706-888f-6575cdc559ec@default> <878tnt6bdi.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de> <83shm1bvud.fsf@gnu.org> <87tw6h9zdg.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26233 Cc: 26233@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Jens Lechtenboerger > Cc: , <26233@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 15:58:51 +0100 > > > Those variables were obsoleted in Emacs 24.3, which was released 4 > > years ago. Isn't it too late to strongly object now to their > > deprecation? That ship sailed long ago. > > I see it this way: The departure of that ship was announced long > ago, for those knowing where to look; however, it did not sail yet. > I've got several settings for special-display variables in my init > file (predating 24.3, I don't know since when). They still work > today, and they work without any user visible warning. AFAIU, you describe how deprecated variables work. The complaint was about announcing the departure, not about the departure itself (which didn't yet happen). "the ship" I alluded to was the announcement. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 25 13:14:53 2017 Received: (at 26233) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2017 17:14:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44551 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crpHB-0008Dt-6H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 13:14:53 -0400 Received: from mx1.mailbox.org ([80.241.60.212]:46486) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crpH8-0008Df-ND for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 13:14:52 -0400 Received: from smtp1.mailbox.org (smtp1.mailbox.org [80.241.60.240]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3B7145002; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 18:14:44 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at heinlein-support.de Received: from smtp1.mailbox.org ([80.241.60.240]) by spamfilter01.heinlein-hosting.de (spamfilter01.heinlein-hosting.de [80.241.56.115]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id E4OqtavJDCJS; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 18:14:40 +0100 (CET) From: Jens Lechtenboerger To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#26233: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist References: <87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> <1a350894-ae16-4706-888f-6575cdc559ec@default> <878tnt6bdi.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de> <83shm1bvud.fsf@gnu.org> <87tw6h9zdg.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de> <83mvc9bb8d.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 18:14:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83mvc9bb8d.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 25 Mar 2017 18:57:22 +0300") Message-ID: <87d1d5wa68.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26233 Cc: 26233@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 2017-03-25, at 18:57, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Jens Lechtenboerger >> Cc: , <26233@debbugs.gnu.org> >> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 15:58:51 +0100 >> >> > Those variables were obsoleted in Emacs 24.3, which was released 4 >> > years ago. Isn't it too late to strongly object now to their >> > deprecation? That ship sailed long ago. >> >> I see it this way: The departure of that ship was announced long >> ago, for those knowing where to look; however, it did not sail yet. >> I've got several settings for special-display variables in my init >> file (predating 24.3, I don't know since when). They still work >> today, and they work without any user visible warning. > > AFAIU, you describe how deprecated variables work. Yes, I just extended bug#5742. > The complaint was about announcing the departure, not about the > departure itself (which didn't yet happen). "the ship" I alluded > to was the announcement. I see. Given bug#5742 I'm not surprised that there have been only few objections. Best wishes Jens From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 26 04:38:44 2017 Received: (at 26233) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Mar 2017 08:38:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44997 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cs3hE-0004bP-KR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Mar 2017 04:38:44 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:62913) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cs3hC-0004b9-I7 for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Mar 2017 04:38:43 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([213.162.68.59]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M9b03-1d15Jp2Z2t-00CwB1; Sun, 26 Mar 2017 10:38:30 +0200 Message-ID: <58D77E01.6000105@gmx.at> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 10:38:25 +0200 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Adams , Eli Zaretskii , Jens Lechtenboerger Subject: Re: bug#26233: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist References: <<87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> <1a350894-ae16-4706-888f-6575cdc559ec@default>> <<878tnt6bdi.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de>> <<83shm1bvud.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:O3NWuNgflyImlFLRXbkB921fTYgfdK25YsU03+DdFUzVbmskj+h ZdGKz04q100zP9D6ynjrXW1oQ+IUnz6T0oyfMQCj4BittJ5xySxqrrRYBEbWsy3Adj0R71n q4OQCng2jzPYrX6udY1ntk2fUacEG0L24QynuJCXVjJVg/PvaaGZbOv7pHkcT2bQluuyIhS CmeTaZmzJc379y2H/x47A== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:cAw6tt2YO44=:hy2w0QTFV7eZ4wcGOK3qU4 oNaB1RMoSa7zdJbsWDI1yyXd+mHcZ3PS84F6dlcVPm871U7cQpeKc+gxyBSfHzhv/iWNdA8p9 Dw/SklLDt61pmFEPIx9j002LGHsy6nBMGkTn9Ig90ug9fwiYZfLtGCtusVD08TUce022YDK49 xRDaxyR251kXRv3OPygexUQzPc2u/ImLsIo5TZljcRbJXj/gQB0oxpqXvWZ5fGbCVMSbe4qt9 gIpZaa6CCMAZYR7aFfpVndsnv0wlg9Z1b6ITv8FX+iJFcgzzN281GpVV6I9jp8jdA2HMemH0E UR1SGbIxO5BCAYI8naPNd1Oj7IVY7OgCqUZzONM2XFjAqeQSu8TLVsaI9Dm2eNEj9I6xUqmVc Ad8LYIZuWCQzI9ZHxQVwaGeKhbVA8MLvgVwQlftPAjgQtQCJcrRDkqIzEdNXg5kl34ydydoOM 4nc9AH7ySS3CGfrDcMMt5y8Y53GF1CirhJ3oAl4Xoa7vN1azh/MaU9u9Y+JbmeLCv3KHdmAAu hrcmgeFQdJtBQEbzPyhJLceD1QqsVhq075iaxjmfw9mYfZGJFJe82h/Fdboz11PlLM7DfjS8s mTfbeOzffKbSYWyw1LhiCnMbNgB1kyfu0zrskE2kkX3pstbSIxYjJYiNFn/0vMPLTHULeAa9C fZWUlaNl/10DKNr3Ud8A6J5tSt5/ZKrfNarhmjVGqF1yOyZCyN8Pbvpvc+grlxi6Tg7srZ4s7 49C7mom4hxypLRkwkxu5nCa3BJOASw0EjQRiMM4NWNLGuutOaE47BpZNipYvUT/sCWm+koXbu IKOyjEPfWepnUNnl/6Q7Pp97XUNig== X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26233 Cc: 26233@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > 2. I _did_ object at the time. Sorry, but the time was 2011 and at that time I wrote ... Your approach will divide Emacs users into two groups: A wide majority= that continues to use the old options and a small minority able to wri= te their own alist based functions. =2E.. and ... Most of what you propose above is easily available in Emacs 23 via `special-display-regexps'. An application would just temporarily add the buffer, the function, and the alist to the head of that and get th= e behavior without setting any arguments. Is it really worth inventing = a new `display-buffer' in order to resolve such cosmetic issues? You did not bother to participate in that discussion and so you did not object at the time. > `display-buffer-alist' is notoriously difficult to > understand and make use of. As one example, though I've > asked several times how to use it to get the same effect > provided by these options I've never gotten a response. > > That's the first step for Emacs to take, IMO, after > undeprecating these options (as well as anything else > "special-display", of course, such as > `special-display-alist'): State in the doc exactly how > they correspond to a special case of using > `display-buffer-alist'. _Show_ the equivalence. Despite the fact that many years ago I moved these options and the corresponding functions from C to Elisp, I still don't understand them and very likely never will. If you asked me how to obtain a specific behavior with =E2=80=98display-buffer-alist=E2=80=99, I might be able to = come up with an answer. In any case I deeply regret that I ever got involved in this. martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 26 10:17:42 2017 Received: (at 26233) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Mar 2017 14:17:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46024 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cs8zG-0005Cf-Bz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Mar 2017 10:17:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60128) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cs8zF-0005CS-5n for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Mar 2017 10:17:41 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cs8z6-0004VY-2M for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Mar 2017 10:17:36 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:39161) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cs8z5-0004VU-VC; Sun, 26 Mar 2017 10:17:31 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2682 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1cs8z5-00039g-4x; Sun, 26 Mar 2017 10:17:31 -0400 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 17:17:29 +0300 Message-Id: <83vaqw9l6u.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: martin rudalics In-reply-to: <58D77E01.6000105@gmx.at> (message from martin rudalics on Sun, 26 Mar 2017 10:38:25 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#26233: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist References: <<87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> <1a350894-ae16-4706-888f-6575cdc559ec@default>> <<878tnt6bdi.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de>> <<83shm1bvud.fsf@gnu.org>> <58D77E01.6000105@gmx.at> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26233 Cc: lechten@wi.uni-muenster.de, 26233@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 10:38:25 +0200 > From: martin rudalics > CC: 26233@debbugs.gnu.org > > I deeply regret that I ever got involved in this. Please don't. I think your work in this area had (and continues to have) a tremendously positive effect on Emacs, both in the usability and the maintainability areas. Don't let a certain attitude convince you otherwise. Thank you for your continuing work on Emacs, in these areas and elsewhere. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 26 13:46:04 2017 Received: (at 26233) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Mar 2017 17:46:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46135 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1csCEt-0003bN-MM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Mar 2017 13:46:04 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:28346) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1csCEs-0003ae-3r for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Mar 2017 13:46:02 -0400 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v2QHjsao028102 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Mar 2017 17:45:55 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v2QHjsYL007738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Mar 2017 17:45:54 GMT Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v2QHjqmY026382; Sun, 26 Mar 2017 17:45:53 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <740b3d43-ebea-4bad-9021-2b865a103cfe@default> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 10:45:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: martin rudalics , Eli Zaretskii , Jens Lechtenboerger Subject: RE: bug#26233: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist References: <<87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> <1a350894-ae16-4706-888f-6575cdc559ec@default>> <<878tnt6bdi.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de>> <<83shm1bvud.fsf@gnu.org>> <58D77E01.6000105@gmx.at> In-Reply-To: <58D77E01.6000105@gmx.at> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26233 Cc: 26233@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) > > 2. I _did_ object at the time. >=20 > Sorry, but the time was 2011 and at that time I wrote ... >=20 > Your approach will divide Emacs users into two groups: A wide majority > that continues to use the old options and a small minority able to > write their own alist based functions. >=20 > ... and ... >=20 > Most of what you propose above is easily available in Emacs 23 via > `special-display-regexps'. An application would just temporarily add > the buffer, the function, and the alist to the head of that and get the > behavior without setting any arguments. Is it really worth inventing a > new `display-buffer' in order to resolve such cosmetic issues? I had to search the bugs list and emacs-devel to find that quote, since you provided no URL for it. To be clear, the "you" and "your" in your quote was apparently Stefan, not me. > You did not bother to participate in that discussion and so > you did not object at the time. Actually, I _did_ participate in that discussion, quite actively. I sent 13 messages to that thread. Starting with this reply to Juanma, who replied to you: J> IMHO, you've taken a lot of time to think of this, and the added J> complexity, if any, is added flexibility. I think we should strive to J> make the current funcionality of your changes clearer and better J> documented. If we stat removing things now, we'll be doomed to re-add J> them some day, not long, when people starts to ask for ways to make it J> work like it was before (you've seen enough of my private bug reports J> to know how true that is ;-) D> I tend to agree with what Juanma says here, though I'm not D> really able to judge what is needed, myself. I expect that D> Martin has looked at the various requirements more than anyone D> else, and I imagine he has done a good job of coming up with D> a coherent solution that covers them. We definitely do not D> want to start over from scratch and risk destabilizing things D> a great deal. D> D> That said, there is a lot to understand, and I'm guessing that D> we, including Martin, might not see clearly what TRT is until, D> in fact, we start trying to explain/describe it better. It's clear that from the very beginning (1) I supported your work toward `display-buffer-alist' improvement, (2) I agreed with those who said that we need to "make the current funcionality of your changes clearer and better documented, and (3) I agreed with Juanma's statement that: If we start removing things now, we'll be doomed to re-add them some day, not long, when people starts to ask for ways to make it work like it was before It's time to "re-add" `special-display-*' support, I think, i.e., to un-deprecate it (since it is still supported and it still works well). I don't think that we have today a use of `display-buffer-alist' that rivals the use of the `special-display-*' options for handling their use cases. And I think we should add those features back with full support (they are not gone, but they have been deprecated). Note, BTW, this from Juanma, which pretty much sparked the discussion: J> From someone who has read the docstring of J> `display-buffer-alist' once too many and gleaned way too J> little meaning from it (no offense, Martin, I love your J> work, just not this variable's doc)... FWIW, I agreed with that sentiment then, and I still do. The following is also from that thread, this time as a reply to your statement that I am the _only one_ to object (so clearly, I did object). You were replying to Stefan, who said that the new code was more complex: M>> I don't know how many times I went through the code of M>> `special-display-buffer-names' but I know that I still M>> don't understand it. S> S> Yup, and your code is even more complex. M> Let's agree to disagree on that. M> =20 M> `special-display-buffer-names' had only one serious user, M> namely Drew Adams. I know that because my rewrite had a M> number of bugs which we eliminated in a period of two M> weeks mostly by trial and error. In all that time no one M> else complained. I suppose you use it as well but since you M> apparently advice `display-buffer' (or some subset of its M> routines) you were not hit by these bugs. M>=20 M> `special-display-buffer-names' is complex because it prescribes M> behavior for reusing the same window, reusing some other window M> on the same frame, popping up a new window, reusing a window on M> another frame and popping up a new frame. That's the kind of M> expressiveness Drew needs because he's got no other choice. M> It's far too expressive for all other users. D> A comment, since my case has been identified as unique - D>=20 D> 1. `special-display-buffer-names' is _very_, very old. It has D> been in GNU Emacs as far back as the introduction of frames, I D> believe. Someone can check the origin and the original design D> arguments; I'm no expert on this. =20 D>=20 D> 2. AFAIK, from the outset it has been just as "complex" as it D> is today - all of the possibilities have been there since Day D> One. They were not added incrementally because someone thought D> that it would be neat to add a bell here or a whistle there. D> They were thought to be important by the _original designers_, D> many, many moon ago. D>=20 D> 3. The point is that I did not invent `special-display-buffer-names', D> and it was not invented for me. ;-) I have made use of it for D> decades (since at least Emacs 19, maybe 18, IIRC), and I have D> always made the _same_ use of it. D>=20 D> 4. Here is the _only_ use I make of it - Drew's weirdo use case. D> I use only the form (BUFFER FUNCTION OTHER-ARGS...), and only D> for two buffers: *Help* and *Completions*. ... D> HTH. Personally, I do not consider my use of D> `special-display-buffer-names' to be strange or outlandish - it D> seems pretty simple to me. D> D> If it is true that I am the only one to use this feature, so be D> it. But that in itself does not make this feature or my use of D> it "complex". And I would even guess that if more things worked D> better in GNU Emacs wrt frames (as opposed to just windows) then D> you might see more people using this feature. D>=20 D> FWIW, my code for this works in Emacs 20 through 23, and it also D> works with Emacs 24 after Martin's efforts to fix some initial D> bugs (thank you, Martin!). And it works cross-platform, AFAIK. D> Not so far out, really. Going back further, you will see this, from me, in the May 2009 thread "display-buffer cleverness - how to tame?": D> If the new `display-buffer' approach is so complex that just D> describing a simple way to get back the old behavior is too D> difficult (even for the implementor!), then, yes, I think we D> have a problem. 8 years later, we're still there, it seems. And before that, in the same 2009 thread: D> I'm sure the new display-buffer behavior is an improvement D> in some way, but it seems too clever by half, at least in D> one context I have. D>=20 D> I'm not suggesting the smarter behavior should be reverted D> (I'd have to understand it first, to be able to suggest D> that ;-)). I just want to know which settings I need, to D> get back the previous behavior for some code I have that D> (apparently) depends on it. Now back to the present - > > `display-buffer-alist' is notoriously difficult to > > understand and make use of. As one example, though I've > > asked several times how to use it to get the same effect > > provided by these options I've never gotten a response. > > > > That's the first step for Emacs to take, IMO, after > > undeprecating these options (as well as anything else > > "special-display", of course, such as > > `special-display-alist'): State in the doc exactly how > > they correspond to a special case of using > > `display-buffer-alist'. _Show_ the equivalence. >=20 > Despite the fact that many years ago I moved these options and the > corresponding functions from C to Elisp, I still don't understand them > and very likely never will. If you asked me how to obtain a specific > behavior with =E2=80=98display-buffer-alist=E2=80=99, I might be able to = come up with an > answer. I'm still hoping that _someone_ can explain how to get the behavior of the deprecated simple constructs using the proclaimed replacement and generalization, `display-buffer-alist'. > In any case I deeply regret that I ever got involved in this. I'm sorry you feel that way. I, for one, am very glad you did get involved in this. It is a _good_ thing to have improved and generalized `display-buffer-alist'. You did a _lot_ of good work, which everyone has recognized and which Emacs users now benefit from. And it is a good thing (after several requests over the years, by multiple users) that we now have better doc for it. (It could be better yet, I think; I still find it hard to follow.) The missing pieces are to (1) un-deprecate `special-display-*' and (2) document the relation between the `special-display-*' features and `display-buffer-alist'. If there is _no_ relation between the two, then that's all the more reason to un-deprecate `special-display-*'. If the relation is too complicated for anyone to understand or document then that too is all the more reason to fully support and document `special-display-*'. Let me end here with another quote from myself from that 2011 thread, to make clear (again) how I feel about your work on this: D> Let me be clear again that I have confidence in what you're D> doing, Martin. I agree with you and others that things are D> currently quite complex for users, and I'm one of those who D> does not yet understand how to use `display-buffer-alist'. D>=20 D> But I expect that with time, discussion, and experiment we D> can iron things out and simplify somewhat (at least the doc, D> and perhaps the design/UI). D>=20 D> Let me be clear too that I appreciate your trying to handle D> the complexity, to deal with all of the various use cases, D> and to maintain coherence wrt previous behavior. D>=20 D> I do _not_ want to see things get dumbed down just because D> we haven't yet found an ideal way to present them (UI, doc). D> The first task should be to handle all of the use cases. D> Only secondly should we try to simplify, and do so without D> sacrificing use cases. D>=20 D> Please continue to explain patiently to us all what we D> don't understand, and please continue to resist simplistic D> "solutions" proposed by _any_ of us who understand this D> stuff less than you do. Keep up the good work, and do not D> hurry or simplify prematurely or simplistically just D> because someone points out that things are, so far, D> complex for users. There's no hurry. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 24 12:54:49 2019 Received: (at 26233) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jun 2019 16:54:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57835 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hfSEy-00017q-QD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:54:49 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:33500) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hfSEx-00017h-2n for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:54:47 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=stories) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hfSEs-0005UC-J4; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:54:44 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: martin rudalics Subject: Re: bug#26233: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist References: <87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> <58D56B7A.2080909@gmx.at> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:54:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: <58D56B7A.2080909@gmx.at> (martin rudalics's message of "Fri, 24 Mar 2017 19:54:50 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: martin rudalics writes: >> in Bug#25946 we discussed how to replace the obsolete variables >> special-display-buffer-names and special-display-regexps. The >> attached patch extends the doc string of display-buffer-alist bas [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 26233 Cc: Jens Lechtenboerger , 26233@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) martin rudalics writes: >> in Bug#25946 we discussed how to replace the obsolete variables >> special-display-buffer-names and special-display-regexps. The >> attached patch extends the doc string of display-buffer-alist based >> on that discussion. > > Thanks. Personally I'd prefer having that in the Elisp manual. Either > in a new subsection or at the end of section 27.14 Action Functions for > `display-buffer'? Code in doc-strings is sometimes tedious to read. Very short (like a couple of lines) I think is fine in doc strings, but more than that should go in the manual (with, perhaps, links from the doc string). But in this case we're talking about adding pointers to variables that were obsoleted six years ago (four at the time of this bug report), so I don't think either is really worth doing at this point. So I'm closing this bug report; please reopen if you disagree. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 24 12:54:54 2019 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jun 2019 16:54:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57838 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hfSF4-00018A-5n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:54:54 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:33516) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hfSF2-000182-Ec for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:54:52 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=stories) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hfSEz-0005UK-Rl for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:54:51 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:54:49 +0200 Message-Id: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #26233 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 26233 wontfix close 26233 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 26233 wontfix close 26233 quit From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:09:33 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. 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