GNU bug report logs - #2608
23.0.90; `w32-use-visible-system-carat' should be a defcustom

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Message #5 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: <emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org>
Subject: 23.0.90; `w32-use-visible-system-carat' should be a defcustom
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 23:55:42 -0700

A visually impaired new Emacs user just asked a question about this
variable on help-emacs-windows <at> gnu.org. I had never heard of this
variable. I see now that it is a defvar, even though it seems to be
documented as a user "flag". Seems like it should be a defcustom.
 

In GNU Emacs 23.0.90.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2009-02-01 on SOFT-MJASON
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4)'
 

Message #12 received at 2608 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Jason Rumney <jasonr <at> gnu.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>, 2608 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#2608: 23.0.90;	`w32-use-visible-system-carat' should be a
 defcustom
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:50:29 +0800

Drew Adams wrote:
> A visually impaired new Emacs user just asked a question about this
> variable on help-emacs-windows <at> gnu.org. I had never heard of this
> variable. I see now that it is a defvar, even though it seems to be
> documented as a user "flag". Seems like it should be a defcustom.
>   

It was originally intended as a user option, but code was added to 
automatically set it according to whether screen reading software is in 
use. So it should just do the right thing. Documentation probably needs 
updating to reflect that, and the fact that it is only useful for screen 
reading software, as the user seems to have gotten the idea that it 
might help them even though they don't use such software - in fact Emacs 
drawn cursors are far more useful, as they can be configured to be more 
or less visible as the user requires.

Message #17 received at 2608 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "'Jason Rumney'" <jasonr <at> gnu.org>, <2608 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Cc: "'Tomas Valusek'" <tvalusek <at> seznam.cz>
Subject: RE: bug#2608: 23.0.90;	`w32-use-visible-system-carat' should be a defcustom
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:01:06 -0700

> From: Jason Rumney Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:50 AM
> > A visually impaired new Emacs user just asked a question about this
> > variable on help-emacs-windows <at> gnu.org. I had never heard of this
> > variable. I see now that it is a defvar, even though it seems to be
> > documented as a user "flag". Seems like it should be a defcustom.
> >   
> 
> It was originally intended as a user option, but code was added to 
> automatically set it according to whether screen reading 
> software is in use. So it should just do the right thing.
> Documentation probably needs updating to reflect that, and the
> fact that it is only useful for screen reading software, as the
> user seems to have gotten the idea that it might help them even
> though they don't use such software - in fact Emacs 
> drawn cursors are far more useful, as they can be configured 
> to be more or less visible as the user requires.

I see. Yes, I think clarifying this in the doc would help. And perhaps add a
link to a manual section about customizing the cursor, for people such as the OP
who don't use screenreaders.

Beyond this bug fix, perhaps it would be useful to add a top-level Emacs-manual
section about Accessibility (aka help for the disabled) with links to pertinent
sections of the manual that might be of special help.

CC'ing the OP.

Thx - Drew.

Message #22 received at 2608-done <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Jason Rumney <jasonr <at> gnu.org>
To: 2608-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: 23.0.90; `w32-use-visible-system-carat' should be a defcustom
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:20:27 +0800

The documentation for this has been updated.

Message #33 received at 2608 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: <2608 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, "'Jason Rumney'" <jasonr <at> gnu.org>
Cc: "'Tomas Valusek'" <tvalusek <at> seznam.cz>
Subject: RE: bug#2608: 23.0.90;`w32-use-visible-system-carat' should be a defcustom
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 17:47:34 -0700

> > From: Jason Rumney Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:50 AM
> > > A visually impaired new Emacs user just asked a question 
> > > about this variable on help-emacs-windows <at> gnu.org. I had
> > > never heard of this variable. I see now that it is a
> > > defvar, even though it seems to be
> > > documented as a user "flag". Seems like it should be a defcustom.
> > >   
> > 
> > It was originally intended as a user option, but code was added to 
> > automatically set it according to whether screen reading 
> > software is in use. So it should just do the right thing.
> > Documentation probably needs updating to reflect that, and the
> > fact that it is only useful for screen reading software, as the
> > user seems to have gotten the idea that it might help them even
> > though they don't use such software - in fact Emacs 
> > drawn cursors are far more useful, as they can be configured 
> > to be more or less visible as the user requires.
> 
> I see. Yes, I think clarifying this in the doc would help. 
> And perhaps add a
> link to a manual section about customizing the cursor, for 
> people such as the OP
> who don't use screenreaders.
> 
> Beyond this bug fix, perhaps it would be useful to add a 
> top-level Emacs-manual
> section about Accessibility (aka help for the disabled) with 
> links to pertinent
> sections of the manual that might be of special help.
> 
> CC'ing the OP.

I don't see this as fixed in 23.0.94.1. I'm looking at both the doc string and
the Emacs manual section about this variable.

Message #38 received at 2608-done <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Jason Rumney <jasonr <at> gnu.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 2608-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#2608: 23.0.90;`w32-use-visible-system-carat' should be a
 defcustom
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 09:10:47 +0800

Drew Adams wrote:
> I don't see this as fixed in 23.0.94.1. I'm looking at both the doc string and
> the Emacs manual section about this variable.
>   

Drew, can you please stop reopening bugs because the solution is not 
EXACTLY what you want.

At least explain what it is that is missing so we can have a clue what 
it is you are not happy with.

Message #39 received at 2608-done <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "'Jason Rumney'" <jasonr <at> gnu.org>
Cc: <2608-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: bug#2608: 23.0.90;`w32-use-visible-system-carat' should be a defcustom
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 19:14:48 -0700

> > I don't see this as fixed in 23.0.94.1. I'm looking at both 
> > the doc string and the Emacs manual section about this variable.
> 
> Drew, can you please stop reopening bugs because the solution is not 
> EXACTLY what you want.
> 
> At least explain what it is that is missing so we can have a 
> clue what it is you are not happy with.

Can you explain how the doc responds at all to the bug report? From that
discussion:

> > It was originally intended as a user option, but code was added to 
> > automatically set it according to whether screen reading 
> > software is in use. So it should just do the right thing.
> > Documentation probably needs updating to reflect that, and the
> > fact that it is only useful for screen reading software, as the
> > user seems to have gotten the idea that it might help them even
> > though they don't use such software - in fact Emacs 
> > drawn cursors are far more useful, as they can be configured 
> > to be more or less visible as the user requires.
> 
> I see. Yes, I think clarifying this in the doc would help. 

I don't see that clarification. I see nothing that would dissuade a user from
trying to set this etc. See the original confusion reported by the user with
sight problems. The point is to clarify things to avoid the confusion he had.

> And perhaps add a link to a manual section about
> customizing the cursor, for people such as the OP
> who don't use screenreaders.

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